[01:53] <Destine> Hi, I am the operator of #ubuntu-cn and also the loco contact of Ubuntu China LoCo. We've got a problem here that the +F person, BlueTraveller has long gone. Is there anyway we can re-gain the +F flag?
[01:54] <Destine> Voidzone, nice to see you here.
[01:55] <Voidzone> not so nice
[01:56] <Destine> Voidzone, ok.
[01:57] <Voidzone> why you no ask your question
[01:57] <Destine> Voidzone, I have asked, before you joined.
[01:58] <Destine> Voidzone, nobody answered so far.
[05:25] <Unit193> Destine: Howdy.  So you may have to wait a bit, it' being night over here and in the UK.
[05:27] <Destine> Unit193, sure.
[05:27] <Destine> Uni
[05:28] <Destine> Unit193, thank you.
[05:36] <Unit193> Sure. :)
[05:37] <Unit193> IRCC pingy, too.
[22:11] <Finrod> hggdh, thanks for granting me access to the #kubuntu channel
[22:11] <Finrod> Could I enter the #kubuntu channel today, to begin my two-week probationary period?
[22:18] <ikonia> Finrod: at this time the ban hasn't been removed as myself and some other members of the operator team where not happy about you using the channels.
[22:18] <ikonia> I'm sorry if thats been miss-communicated to you
[22:19] <Finrod> I received an email from hggdh a few days ago, which confirmed that I am allowed to enter the #kubuntu channel
[22:20] <ikonia> yes
[22:20] <ikonia> and we spoke about it since then and agreed that there needed to be more discussion about it as other members of the team where not comfortable with that
[22:20] <ikonia> apologies if that's caused confusion
[22:23] <Finrod> hggdh responded to all of my questions in a detailed manner, and clarified your expectations and the conditions of my probation with respect to the #kubuntu channel
[22:23] <ikonia> Finrod: yes, I understand that
[22:24] <Finrod> I received that info in an email from hddgh on Oct 28
[22:24] <ikonia> and I've just explained that when it was discussed with the rest of the operator team, some of the team where not happy with the desicision
[22:24] <ikonia> so we decided not to remove the ban at this time,
[22:24] <ikonia> I'm sorry for the confusing communication
[22:24] <ikonia> I'm sure something will be sent out to clarify this for you
[22:24] <Finrod> He said the council agreed to all of the probationary conditions proposed by both me and Svetlana
[22:24] <ikonia> yes, I understand that
[22:25] <ikonia> but I'm just going to repeat what I've said again
[22:25] <ikonia> and I've just explained that when it was discussed with the rest of the operator team, some of the team where not happy with the desicision
[22:25] <ikonia> I'm sure something will be sent out to clarify this for you
[22:25] <ikonia> I'm sorry for the confusing communication
[22:26] <Finrod> We proposed the conditions on Sept 17, so the council had a lot of  time to consider and they made a decision and communcated their decision to me on Oct 28
[22:26] <ikonia> Finrod: please try to listen
[22:26] <ikonia> the decision changed after the operator team explained they where not happy with that decision
[22:26] <ikonia> so repeating that you have an email stating this is understood,
[22:27] <ikonia> and please try to understand that on review that decision was changed
[22:29] <Finrod> the council has a higher authority than the operators, so the appeal process cannot go to a higher authority, unless it goes to the community council.  That is my understanding
[22:30] <ikonia> the council represent the end user (in this case you) and the operator team and make decisions
[22:30] <ikonia> based on talking to the operator team the decision was changed
[22:30] <ikonia> hence why the ban has not been removed
[22:30] <ikonia> this was only discused 48 hours ago
[22:30] <ikonia> so you've not had any communication yet, and I'm sorry for that
[22:32] <Finrod> the ban is already 2.5 months old, and I have written eight letters to the council since then regarding the bans.  How long is this going to take, another 3 months?
[22:33] <ikonia> the ban is 3 months old because we don't think you can use the channels
[22:33] <ikonia> and the ban won't be removed until we think you can use the channels
[22:33] <ikonia> so you can right 200000+ emails, and it won't change anything
[22:33] <ikonia> what will change it is if you can use IRC inline with how we expect people to use IRC
[22:33] <ikonia> (this has been explained to you many times)
[22:34] <ikonia> there isn't a time frame on it
[22:34] <ikonia> it will take as long as it takes for you to be able to use IRC inline with the expectations of the channel
[22:36] <Finrod> I am banned from three channels, but I have not violated any CoC rules for about two months in any ubuntu channels
[22:37] <ikonia> yes, because you are banned from them all
[22:37] <ikonia> you can't break any rules in the channels when you're banned from them
[22:37] <ikonia> I'll try to summerise one last time
[22:37] <Finrod> No, I am only banned from these channels:  #ubuntu, #kubuntu, and #xubuntu
[22:38] <ikonia> I can't continue to go over this again
[22:38] <ikonia> and #lubuntu
[22:38] <ikonia> you can't break their rules, when you are banned from them
[22:38] <ikonia> so it is pointless to say you've not broken any rules
[22:42] <Finrod> I have been using the other ubuntu channels for about two years now without any problems, regardless of the channel specific bans, which hggdh confirmed in his last email
[22:42] <ikonia> now you're just telling lies
[22:43] <ikonia> a.) when you initially got banned you said "I'm new"
[22:43] <ikonia> now you're saying you've been using channels for 2 years
[22:43] <ikonia> b.) what oher channels have you been using while you've been banned ?
[22:43] <ikonia> actually - I'm not getting caught up in this
[22:43] <Finrod> I believe I have been using the ubuntu channels for almost two years now
[22:43] <ikonia> then you should not have lied and said "I'm new"
[22:44] <ikonia> I suggest you continue to mail the council with your complaint
[22:44] <ikonia> just understand that mailing the council is not a promise to get unbanned
[22:44] <ikonia> it's a promise that your situation will be reviewed
[22:44] <Finrod> I believe I opened my freenode account about two years ago
[22:45] <ikonia> 22:45 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on SamwiseGamgee (account SamwiseGamgee):
[22:45] <ikonia> 22:45 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Apr 08 22:56:12 2014 (29
[22:45] <ikonia> 29 weeks ago
[22:45] <ikonia> and you deined being "lars" from 2 years ago and said "I'm new here"
[22:45] <ikonia> so you told lies
[22:46] <ikonia> so I suggest we leave it there
[22:46] <ikonia> mail the council
[22:46] <ikonia> nothing more is going to happen in this channel
[22:47] <Finrod> ikonia, could you be more cooperative and less accusatory.  I did not come here to argue or to fight, that is not a good way to communicate
[22:47] <ikonia> I am being clear and cooperative
[22:47] <ikonia> I'm stating clear facts for you
[22:47] <ikonia> a.) you said "I'm new here"
[22:47] <ikonia> that is a lie
[22:47] <ikonia> b.) you said I've been on for 2 years
[22:47] <ikonia> your account is 29 weeks old of which 3+ months you've been banned
[22:48] <Finrod> That's because I had two accounts
[22:48] <ikonia> right
[22:48] <ikonia> and when we asked you about the other account
[22:48] <ikonia> you deined it was you
[22:48] <ikonia> as that other account was also banned
[22:48] <Finrod> So, if you include both accounts, it's been about two years.
[22:49] <ikonia> so you have made a situation where a good chunk of the operator team would like you not to use the channel
[22:49] <ikonia> so the ban has been left in place
[22:49] <Finrod> Actually, I don't think my first account was banned
[22:49] <ikonia> so I suggest stop trying to defend your actions in here - we know them, we understand them
[22:49] <ikonia> it's not going to change in here
[22:49] <ikonia> email the council and i'm sure you'll get a clarifing response
[22:49] <ikonia> (you should get one anyway)
[22:50] <Finrod> It was not working, because the old account was hooked up to Quassel and Windows.  I believe I created a new account when I installed Xubuntu about a year ago
[22:50] <ikonia> the account is 29 weeks old
[22:50] <ikonia> that is not a dispute
[22:50] <ikonia> and to be honest it doesn't matter
[22:50] <Finrod> No Quassel with Kubuntu
[22:50] <ikonia> this is part of th reason we don't want you to use the channel
[22:50] <ikonia> you seem unable to listen to instruction/take in information
[22:50] <bekks> Oh, I think I git the wrong channel ;) bye bye :)
[22:51] <ikonia> so understand
[22:51] <ikonia> "your ban is still in place, the council members should mail you, but if you feel the need email them for clarification"
[22:51] <k1l> Finrod: you received a lot of kicks and bans on you different nicknames and accounts. and you just did setup the finrod nick to evade the ban set up on samwisegee nickname. so dont tell us you are innocent and the bad ops are making a regular user a hard life.
[22:51] <ikonia> nothing more to be discussed in this channel at this time
[22:52] <Finrod> I don't think I was ever kicked or banned when using my old lars account.  This did not start happening until I entered the ubuntu channels.  Ask Freenode.  Look at my history
[22:53] <zombiefox> freenode does not keep either kick or ban histories.
[22:53] <Finrod> I never had any problems in the #kubuntu channel for about two years, and I certainly never broke any CoC rules in the #kubuntu channel.  I am absolutely certain about that.  That is a fact.
[22:54] <k1l> i know you like to draw the picture that "we" are the the bad ones here. but its actually your behaviour. as shown right here you change nicks and accounts to get what you want. you evade bans and join other channels to get the support which is offtopic in there.
[22:54] <ikonia> I suggest we drop this
[22:54] <ikonia> it's not going to change anything in here
[22:54] <ikonia> he knows what he's doing
[22:54] <Finrod> Even in the last 2.5 months, I have never violated any CoC rules in the kubuntu channel, look at the logs
[22:54] <ikonia> so let the council deal with it
[22:55] <zombiefox> ikonia: I am not out of popcorn yet
[22:55] <ikonia> we are being suckered into another debate on this
[22:55] <Finrod> Everything I said is based on evidence in the logs, not hearsay
[22:55] <ikonia> then mail it to the council
[22:56] <k1l> Finrod: that is not how this works. you cant troll on purpose in #ubuntu* channels and then say: i didnt troll at that other channel so i need to be unbanned.
[22:56] <rww> oh, so you are 100% lars
[22:56] <rww> thanks for the confirmation
[23:00] <Finrod> I am trying to make my use of the ubuntu channels a positive and constructive experience.  I don't understand why you need try so hard to create controversy and drama.  Please relax and be a little more open minded.  I am a good person.  I try hard to be nice
[23:01] <Finrod> I have not offended anyone.  I only want to use the ubuntu channels to learn, to troubleshoot, and to be a member of good community of knowledgeable software specialists
[23:02] <Finrod> I don't like fighting and I don't want to cause any trouble, do you understand?
[23:03] <rww> Finrod: which flavor(s) of Ubuntu do you use? (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.)
[23:03] <Finrod> Xubuntu
[23:03] <rww> Finrod: why do you need access to #kubuntu, then?
[23:03] <Finrod> Just to prove my sincerity
[23:03] <Finrod> I am considering installing it on my new PC
[23:04] <rww> :|
[23:04] <Finrod> My old PC still has xubuntu
[23:04] <Finrod> I am using it now
[23:04] <rww> Finrod: have you made any changes to your behavior since the events that led to you contacting the IRCC repeatedly?
[23:04] <Finrod> I have never used any other linux OS: only xubuntu and kubuntu
[23:04] <rww> If so, please detail such.
[23:05] <Finrod> yes
[23:05] <Finrod> Svetlana has helped me change my behaviour
[23:05] <Finrod> I agreed to all her demands and have followed through
[23:06] <rww> Specifically how has your behavior changed?
[23:06] <Finrod> Plus I have been avoiding all the ubuntu channels, just to be sure, so I don't get into any  more trouble until the council makes their decisions
[23:06] <rww> I'm not familiar with your interactions with Svetlana, unfortunately.
[23:06] <Finrod> Svetlana knows my situation very well
[23:07] <Finrod> I believe she is both an ubuntu and a freenode operator
[23:08] <Finrod> She helped me install Chatzilla to keep track of everything in all the channels
[23:08] <Finrod> in the beginning I had some trouble with chatzilla and my nicknames
[23:08] <rww> Sec, I'm checking in with her.
[23:09] <Finrod> I wanted to keep using SamwiseGamgee, but we both agreed that SamwiseGamgee has become a pariah in the ubuntu channels
[23:09] <Finrod> in the channels where I was not banned, she agreed that I should create a new nickname, to avoid any further trouble
[23:10] <rww> I'm not particularly concerned with the nickname or Chatzilla issues personally, to be honest. My concern is that there was specific behavior that led to your removal from some of our channels, and I want to know whether that behavior has changed.
[23:10] <rww> and apart from "I have been avoiding ubuntu channels", you haven't detailed changed behavior, so please do so :)
[23:10] <Finrod> she was right, Finrod was working, any never had any more trouble since we created my Finrod nick
[23:11] <ikonia> thats not true
[23:11] <ikonia> you've been asked not to complain / rant in other channels about your ubuntu ban
[23:11] <ikonia> yet you've done so multiple times in #freenode
[23:11] <ikonia> and you've done that recently
[23:11] <Finrod> I told Freenode about my email troubles
[23:12] <ikonia> this is just lies now
[23:12] <rww> Also, for the record, Svetlana is not an Ubuntu operator.
[23:12] <ikonia> I don't have any interest
[23:12] <ikonia> rww: I apolgoies for interupting
[23:12] <ikonia> you can continue with additional interuption, good luck
[23:12] <Finrod> because council did not respond to my last 4 emails
[23:12] <rww> ikonia: no worries
[23:13] <rww> Finrod: So yes, back to on-topic. Examples of changed behavior since your original bans?
[23:13] <Finrod> the Freenode operators, such as Svetlana, have been very helpful in me dealing with the council by email
[23:13] <zombiefox> hai gry \o
[23:14] <Finrod> I stopped going into the ubuntu channels unless I got desperate with troubleshooting
[23:15] <elky> when was this break? didn't notice it
[23:15] <rww> Okay. How would you act differently in [/K/X]Ubuntu channels in the future?
[23:15] <Finrod> when I got desperate, i went into the #lubuntu channel and the #linux channel
[23:15] <rww> elky: I'd prefer to get my questions done with first, if it's okay.
[23:15] <elky> k
[23:15] <ikonia> ha ha ha ha
[23:15] <ikonia> oops
[23:15] <Finrod> I will use google more to do my own troubleshooting and the ubuntu forums
[23:15] <Finrod> Ikonia was right about the ubuntu forums
[23:16] <rww> You used #lubuntu for Xubuntu support? I believe we've discussed that sort of thing before, so I assume that will be stopping too.
[23:16] <Finrod> that means I can ask fewer stupid questions in the ubuntu channels
[23:16] <rww> Finrod: what's your Ubuntu Forums profile name?
[23:16] <Finrod> I was using you guys too much for tech support, getting lazy
[23:17] <Finrod> I should only go into the ubuntu channels as a last resort, after doing my own google searches and ubuntu tutorials
[23:18] <Finrod> I have been doing this a lot in the last month
[23:18] <rww> < rww> | Finrod: what's your Ubuntu Forums profile name?
[23:18] <Finrod> Doing my own troubleshooting, instead of making unnecessary demands on the ubuntu operators
[23:19] <Finrod> I have only used Finrod for everything in the last two months
[23:20] <Finrod> I had some problems with my nicks when I first started using Chatzilla, but Finrod has been working well, especially in the last month
[23:21] <Finrod> in the last full month, I have been extra careful about all the ubuntu channels I go into, in order to follow Svetlana's probationary conditions
[23:22] <Finrod> look at all the ubuntu logs for the last month, you'll see that I never even came close to violating any CoC rules in any unbuntu channel
[23:24] <Finrod> Rule one is to only use my Finrod nickname and no other nickname
[23:24] <Finrod> I have done that
[23:25] <Finrod> Also, I have remained polite to all the ubuntu operators
[23:26] <Finrod> in fact, have I ever offended or insulted any ubuntu operator any time in my history?
[23:27] <rww> Finrod: you said you've been using Ubuntu Forums. Do you have an account on there? Is it named Finrod or something else?
[23:27] <Finrod> I also agreed to never overreact to any operator action, and I have followed through on that condition
[23:27] <Finrod> No, I believe it is registered under a differrent name
[23:28] <rww> What name is that?
[23:28] <Finrod> I had a lot of trouble with it, but I think I got a new password in my Yahoo account
[23:28] <Finrod> but I found it easier to just read the forum stuff without posting anything
[23:30] <Finrod> I don't thinnk you need an active account to access the forums, but when I enter the forums I think it automatically uses my old account
[23:31] <rww> Okay. I can't really use posting on there to help show your behavior is appropriate, then :(
[23:31] <Finrod> I had asked for help with the forums in the ubuntu-forums channel, but got kicked right after the question
[23:32] <Finrod> but I should have just reset my password from my yahoo account
[23:33] <Finrod> ikonia is right about the forums.  Because he knows I take too long to respond to the ubuntu operators
[23:33] <Finrod> when they ask me questions
[23:33] <ikonia> you didn' get kicked out for asking for help
[23:33] <ikonia> you got kicked out because you refused to follow instructions
[23:34] <Finrod> yes, I need to be better prepared and stop being so lazy.  If I do my own troubleshooting beforehand, I can follow your instructions and questions more easily
[23:35] <Finrod> but I have been doing that in the #linux channel
[23:35] <Finrod> and in the #windows channel
[23:35] <Finrod> I am getting better at troubleshooting and communicating
[23:35] <elky> You haven't really managed to follow instructions here today in this channel. 3 requests for an account name while you ignore it to ramble is not looking good.
[23:36] <Finrod> ok, I'll check my journal....
[23:36] <Finrod> my old login was Genyar
[23:37] <Finrod> My first nickname may have been lars
[23:37] <Finrod> When I first started using Kubuntu
[23:37] <Finrod> probably two years ago
[23:37] <Finrod> I was using Quassel
[23:38] <Finrod> then I had to switch to Genyar, probably when I started accessing Freenode using Firefox
[23:39] <Finrod> Also, I started using Pastebin more to help the operators
[23:39] <Finrod> Recently
[23:39] <Finrod> for screenshots
[23:40] <Finrod> Now I know how to use Imgur and Pastebin for screenshots, to help the operators
[23:40] <Finrod> I have been doiing that in the ubuntu and other Freenode channels I still have access to, and it is working
[23:41] <Finrod> I also know more about the terminal emulator commands, to help the operators and to do my own troubleshooting
[23:41] <Finrod> I am really starting to love Xubuntu, I got some really cool applications now
[23:43] <Finrod> I also got a lot of help with Libre office in the last 2 months, and all the most recent updates
[23:43] <Finrod> So, if you grant me access to the three ubuntu channels I was banned from, it is unlikely that I will need to come in those channels as oftten as before
[23:44] <ikonia> the fact that you continue to keep talking repeating the same thing over and over when you've done almost nothing you've been asked to do
[23:45] <ikonia> or responded to any questions without having to be asked 3 - 4 times shows your behaviour has not changed at all
[23:45] <ikonia> I'd suggest (as I did earlier) you explain this to the council
[23:45] <ikonia> the council will talk with the team and yourself and get back to you
[23:48] <Finrod> Are you aware of the six probationary conditions we discussed in the emails?
[23:49] <ikonia> it doesn't really matter
[23:49] <ikonia> it wo'nt change anything at this moment in time
[23:49] <ikonia> so it's pointless to go over them
[23:51] <Finrod> the council accepted all six of them, so which of those conditions did you reject?
[23:52] <ikonia> none
[23:52] <ikonia> we (the people who where uncomfrotable) rejected you as a person
[23:52] <ikonia> hence why the ban was not removed
[23:52] <Finrod> ok, so you rejected all six of those conditions of my probation?
[23:52] <ikonia> no
[23:52] <ikonia> again LISTEN
[23:52] <ikonia> this is a big problem for you
[23:52] <ikonia> you say "did you reject them"
[23:53] <ikonia> I say "no"
[23:53] <ikonia> you say "so you rejected them all"
[23:53] <ikonia> it is pointless to have discussion with you as you just ignore what is said to you
[23:53] <ikonia> which is why it is probably wise for you to write an email
[23:53] <Finrod> ok, I will right another email to the council
[23:54] <ikonia> thank you
[23:54] <Finrod> write