=== zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi
maphi all04:33
=== OERIAS2 is now known as OERIAS
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.10:46
brobostigonmorning vad3rman115610:50
=== roht is now known as wadzi
penguin42Ovo (eelc supplier) have an interesting account system; you earn interest on overpayments, and can extract money before the end of the term14:22
mapthats decent14:22
mapif im ever in credit at eon its a right pain getting it back14:22
penguin42yeh, it's just taken nearly 2 months to extract the end of contract credit from Flow gas14:24
penguin42I tend to change supplier each year14:24
mapi usually dont just because of the hassle14:24
penguin42I think it's saving me money changing, althoguh frankly it's hard to tell14:25
mapim gonna have to send my email later this week14:26
mappaying for 100mbit getting like 20mbit speed max14:26
penguin42what on?14:26
mapalthough il need to do what daftykins  said at some point14:26
maphat do you mean what on14:26
penguin42what isp/connectivity/technology?14:26
mapsays fibre14:26
maplike now download 10.5114:27
penguin42yeh well you're probably sharing gig among your segment - but what's the link back to the mainland?14:27
map]no idea tbh14:27
mapi get that its shared and 'upto 100' but even at 3/4am14:27
mapmax 2014:27
mapno point paying for 100 if im not getting ANYWHERE close14:27
penguin42try a traceroute and see if you can figure it out14:28
penguin42map: and where are you downloading from?14:28
mapive tried nearest possible mirrors for isos14:29
mapalso tried speedtest14:29
maptraceroute to where anywhere in particular..google.co.uk?14:29
penguin42map: I'd be happy to try and do a compare from my supposed 50/60mbps cable14:29
penguin42map: The place you're downloading from14:29
mapDSL Type:ITU-T G.993.2 Annex B (VDSL2)14:30
mapBandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:13.410 / 100.01614:30
mapData Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]:0 / 014:30
penguin42oh, that's not fibre, that's VDSL14:30
mapbut the site said fibre14:30
penguin42yeh most of the UK places advertise as fibre, but that's fibre to the cabinet - but still, where did that info come from - your modem?14:31
penguin42(I made a complaint to advertising standards about 10 years ago when they started doing that but they didn't get it)14:31
mapyea jusgt logged into the router14:31
mapdont get that tho14:32
mapwhat speed does it think its connecting at?14:32
penguin42map: OK, so something in the router thinks you're on 100Mbps14:32
mapil try and find a spanish mirror and test14:32
penguin42hmm, actually no those numbers don't quite make sense - although they might if you assume it's mbps not kbps14:32
mapwhys it say kbps? just an error with the page i guess14:32
penguin42map: Are you sure it's not the mirror ? What exactly are you trying to download from where?14:33
mapubuntu isos just a big file to test14:33
mapnot sure where else to use to test besides mirrors?14:33
penguin42which mirror are you using?14:34
map81.94.213.9 gona try tracert to that14:34
maptook quite a while to get there14:35
* penguin42 wonders where that actually is14:36
mapwhat speed do you get off there..700ks here;[14:36
mapits works IP address in the UK14:36
penguin42well that's probably in Germany?14:37
mapyea it is14:37
mapi cant find anywhere closer now14:37
mapnot sure where to use to try and test14:37
penguin42that's giving about 6MByte/sec - so about 50Mbps14:37
mapyea see thats decent14:37
mapim no even getting 1MB/s14:37
mapany suggestions for something/somewhere to download from? doesnt matter what it is14:38
penguin42well what happens if you just drop the de. ?14:39
penguin42oh actually, that's going to the same host14:39
* penguin42 suspects it's doing something clever there14:40
mapnot sure where it went to14:40
* penguin42 was going to sugges mirrorservice.org but for some reason it only has the ppc server isos of 14.1014:41
mapthats ok though14:41
penguin42map: Well for a bandwidth test, http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/utopic/release/14:41
penguin42map: I'd bet your problem is just the bandwidth to the mainland14:42
mapsurely to spain i should be fine then14:42
mapeven on speedtest running a test from a site in Malaga or anywhere..max 2014:43
maplol 240kb/s14:43
penguin42map: Try france or portugal14:46
mapwilll do ta14:46
shaunoI'd expect better service to the UK, tbh14:47
penguin42shauno: Yeh, I was just seeing the list of landing points for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_India_Gateway    it does have UK, but also Portugal and France, but not Spain14:47
shaunoand this is why uni tell you off for citing wiki :)14:50
mappossibly due to spain not recognising gibralar as a country14:50
shaunothey list gibraltar as one of the landing points, and gibtelecom are one of the part-owners14:51
mapso whys it son rubbish;[14:51
shaunono idea at all.  I just assumed you'd get better traffic down the cable, than over a disputed border  (speculation)14:52
penguin42map: Because the whole of gibraltar is using it to surf the net on a quiet sunday afternoon, and most of the rest of the world is using it to bet using gibraltar betting companies14:53
mapbut what about when its 4am and it sucks14:54
shaunothere's a good chance it simply sucks :)14:54
mapgonna have to contaCT THEM as its mad expensive too14:54
map73 a month14:54
mapwhy pay that for this rubbish14:54
shaunoc&w, at&t, both owned massive infrastructure but were still pretty lousy as residential ISPs14:54
map16mbit is only 28 quid..so may aswell switch to that if it doesnt get better?14:56
penguin42map: What difference do you get in the upload bandwidth if you drop down to 16mbit?14:58
mapit just says download 16Mbps upload 16=.615:00
shaunowhat happens if you pay for 16 and get a quarter of that instead?15:00
penguin42map: Yeh make sure you know what you're gettting upload; .6mbps would be a bit grim compared to your current supposed 1315:01
mapil be annoyed again15:01
mapim figuring they cant meet 100mbit requirements15:01
mapbut more likely to get full speed on 16?15:02
shaunoperhaps you have someone like me as your nextdoor neighbour :)15:02
daftykinsBandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:I13.410 / 100.01615:50
daftykinsmap: yeah that's kbps, because in Gibraltar, a period is used as a comma for numbers15:50
daftykinsyou should really check the actual line sync rate still15:50
daftykinslooks like it's connected and provisioned at the correct speed, maybe you're just trying to do too much UK stuff with it? ;)15:51
shaunoperhaps you just need to lower your expectations now that you're living on the edge of civilization =x15:56
shauno(btw, is it safe to assume that your vpn plays no part in these tests?)15:56
daftykinsi think that's just when he's at work15:57
=== davmor2_ is now known as davmor2
shaunoI just discovere that in win7, if you grab a window and wave it around, it hides all other windows.  I'm now trying to figure out the logic behind this :/16:08
daftykinsyeah the ol' wobble minimise and restore16:09
shaunobut why?16:10
daftykinsi can only imagine someone would have a tonne of junk up then want to focus on just one thing16:11
daftykinsbuuuut nope, doesn't make any sense16:11
daftykinscould be a good boss protection thing i guess ;)16:11
shaunohm.  I was trying to get the window to snap against the 'edge' between two monitors.  I wasn't expecting that16:12
shauno(which also sounds like it should't work, but does work in one direction)16:13
daftykinsyeah i always used super + d-pad16:14
daftykinsi can't go back to Vista and before now, as they lack this :(16:15
zmoylan-piwell pre win 7 a humongus amount of cpu and ram was used to draw screen if only 1 pixel of 1gb file was on screen so maybe they cut a few corners :-)16:15
daftykinsnot that i want to use Vista or earlier16:15
zmoylan-pior in a folder on the desktop16:15
daftykinsi somewhat doubt that claim16:16
zmoylan-pitis true, i'll try and dig up proof but take any win vista system or earlier and move 4gb from my documents to a folder on desktop and compare perfermorance before and after16:17
shaunodaftykins: a scholar and a gentleman!  super+cursors is exactly what I was looking for16:17
daftykinsshauno: :D woohoo \o/16:17
zmoylan-piin my docs no performance hit, on desktop or in folder below desktop grind to a halt16:17
shaunoit seems I can only do it with the mouse in one direction because the monitors aren't the same size.  so I can snap up against the 'step'16:18
daftykinszmoylan-pi: upon doing what? browsing with an explorer window?16:18
shaunothat reminds me of when 95 was new, and people would complain that leaving icons on the desktop "used up ram"16:19
daftykinsis that even true 0o16:19
zmoylan-piany time windows went to redraw the desktop it checked with all the apps and then had a rummage in desktop folder in windows to see what the background should look like on top of the current theme16:20
shaunonot to any significant measure, I believe16:20
shaunoand then we had all the scare-mongering from admins who hated us leaving stuff on the desktop because only 'my documents' was propogated to network backups16:20
zmoylan-piin windows 3.x even icons on desktop used resources enough to make a difference16:20
daftykinsah yes Desktop content remains on-system and was never seen again16:21
daftykinsi remember them locking down the desktop at my old College, much to the anger of those that stored desktop shortcuts or documents also16:21
daftykinsif you wanted to run anything that wasn't on the start menu (such as cmd) you had to make your own shortcut in your user area16:22
shaunoours mostly worked because we habitually took the same workstations each day. so what we were told was 'wrong and didn't work', continued to work16:22
daftykinsdoesn't do much for disk failure mind you16:23
shaunowe actually had the opposite.  we had an optical link between two campuses.16:23
zmoylan-piwell then you're into disks spinning up and down increasing or lowering hard disk life16:23
shaunoso whenever there was a proper sea haar, you'd find you could login to get hte stuff off your desktop - but not from 'my documents'16:23
zmoylan-pidiffering opinions on files on desktops slowing down things.  http://superuser.com/questions/30710/is-that-true-that-if-you-keep-bulky-files-on-the-desktop-then-windows-slow-down16:24
shaunolarge parts of the network were completely dependent on the weather.16:24
daftykinsopinions? are these not people of science?!16:25
zmoylan-piwell ireland, weather. i'm surprised some days the electricity has made it out of power station it's so damp :-)16:25
zmoylan-piwe still haven't agreed that vim is the best text editor :-p16:25
shaunooh I didn't go to college here :)  that was eons ago16:25
shaunohave you ever noticed the 'thumbs' hidden file that you get when you've copied a folder off a windows machine?16:26
zmoylan-pithere were many times i drastically speeded up a crawling windows desktop by moving a few gigabytes from desktop folder to my documents.  /my 2c16:26
shaunothat file is why windows doesn't have to reindex the desktop every single time it becomes visible.  such stuff is cached16:27
foobarryanyone on ircnet? having a problem i can't figure out. when i join, there is a bitlbee session i connect to. i can't seem to /join any chans17:12
foobarryhmm. ebay down for me17:40
foobarryoh, www.ebay.co.uk works. not without www17:41
mapshauno,  yea vpn isnt plaing part at all18:21
mapthe VPNs on 90mbit sky anyway with a decent upload so wouldnt hamper it so much?18:21
daftykinsmap: lol yes it would.18:27
daftykinsyou don't apply extra hops then speed test XD18:27
mapi wasnt tho;p18:27
daftykinsyou really need to try some local mirrors then18:27
mapfixed my pi..it all comes on after a reboot/powercut18:27
mapapache/openvpn starts automatically..iptables rules loaded and wifi connects with same ip :)18:28
mapso if it goes wrong again il hve no idea why18:28
mapcant see any local ones..spain best? although shauno  said the gib -> spain link was crap or something?18:28
daftykinsfunnily enough my internalised database of international links doesn't cover Gibraltar (:18:29
mapphone couldnt get a signal..then says searching comes back as orange18:29
mapnormally only get orange es when in spain18:29
mapand gibtel right the way until quite far in la linea18:29
penguin42map: I'd make sure it's not routing via the vpn, the IP you mentioned before I tried to traceroute to went via a bet365 address which suggests perhaps it's a VPN end point?18:30
mappenguin42, thats the work IP in UK office18:30
mapi was uust using it as an ip to traceroute18:30
penguin42map: that was a bad idea18:31
mapspeedtest in UK says the uk office is pretty fast tho18:31
mapi figured itd be ok to use that IP its got a decent link so surely routing is good18:31
penguin42map: Routes between places don't necessarily go the same way just because they both happen to be in the same country18:31
mapi know that:D18:32
penguin42map: Especially if you have VPN stuff around18:32
map900k off a mirror in Marseille18:32
mapil do what daftykins  said to tomorrow (off work) and see what it says18:32
mapthen il have to email them..it sucks bad paying and getting like 1/5 of what i should18:33
daftykinswell it's kind of a moot point now18:33
mapive tested speed downloading isos from numerouis mirrors18:33
mapspain/france uk kent mirror service ..250ks lol18:34
daftykinsbecause your provisioned rates have to be higher than sync rates, and you've already shared those18:34
daftykinsso you to the ISP is fine, it's from there onwards that's up for debate18:34
mapcould it be a simple mistake their end?:Z18:35
daftykinsdoubt it18:35
mapso il probably never really get 100mbit speeds18:35
mapwell if i get ut sirted si un bit oaying for 100 wont be too bad18:36
daftykinsthis is why you need to test from a nearby mirror18:37
mapbut theres none nearby!18:37
mapspain is nearest geographically18:37
daftykinsi noticed your telco's speedtest link just kinda fails18:38
daftykinswell yeah but damn well find one :P don't just throw your hands up like an undergrad18:38
maplol does it thats crap18:39
daftykinswell it did the other day18:39
mapi cant see there being a gibraltar mirror;p18:39
daftykinscontact them and ask for a file mirror they host in their data centre18:40
shauno"since you can't give me the speeds I pay for, can you at least host a mirror so we can pretend?"18:41
shaunoI pay for 120 and tend to get 150-180 depending on the time of day (or !day)18:42
daftykinsis that over cable?18:43
shaunowhich i starting to get a bit silly. you barely notice the extra 60meg18:43
daftykinsbarely notice? :)18:43
daftykinsthe rate adaptability of cable is kinda funny18:43
shaunoit's sold as fibre, but I don't know where the fibre actually starts.  it's coax at the wall18:44
mapi expect il speak to someone who will say like 'oh its the time of day' 'or depends on what ytoure trying' - but ive tried so many diff mirrors as stated here and ive tried at 3am/4am 6am ..1pm 4pm etc18:45
shaunophone them up at 3am :)18:45
penguin42shauno: Sounds like you're on Cable - DOCSIS?18:45
mapheh shauno18:45
daftykinseverything's called fibre these days, it's one of the present day's biggest lies18:46
daftykinsjust goes to show consumer naivety really :(18:46
zmoylan-piit's right up there with unlimited and 4g :-)18:46
mapi figure il prob email that way they can forward the email to others rather than me having to explain to one operator..then ANOTHER AND SO ON!!18:46
daftykinswhen someone says their tubes are fibre, i know they don't have a clue18:46
mapfibre to the box18:46
daftykinsthere are many boxes18:47
zmoylan-piit's more of a trapezoid than a box :-p18:48
mapso everyone agreee? best for me to email my mug ISP:p18:51
maphavent paid a bill yet and theres no direct debit payment..so i might not pay till they a) sort my speed b) lower me to a diff tarrif if they cant provide 100 as stated18:51
daftykinsi'd ask for a testing methodology in the first instance18:52
maplike a local mirror..then when they say..none?:D18:53
daftykinsdamn you're stubborn18:54
brobostigonwould everyone agree, that leaving food out in the kitchen after it has been cooked for 24 hrs, is unsafe to eat?18:54
daftykinsif they're throwing out a service their backbone links can't provide for, i would think they'd be aware of it18:54
daftykinsbrobostigon: if uncovered, it wouldn't be wise, no. depends on the environment really18:54
mapdepends on what food18:55
mapi prob wouldn eat18:55
brobostigondaftykins: uncovered is not the issue, its average environmental temperature, and average bacterial growth at those temperatures, which make it unsafe.18:55
mapme stubborn? i said if:P pfft18:56
daftykinsi think that's going a bit deep for my interests18:56
brobostigonhowever, its fair to say, its not safe, basic logic tells me that.18:57
daftykinsyeah i wouldn't leave food out18:58
brobostigonme neither.18:58
brobostigonafter its cooled, in the fridge it goes.18:58
mapodd that putting hot food into a fridge is bad18:59
mapi should google and read why heh18:59
brobostigonbacterial growth, its too high a termperature differential.18:59
mapi see18:59
mapid have thought its ok though as the foods cooked19:00
brobostigonbetween the food and the fridge.19:00
mapbut yea i dont know19:00
* brobostigon admits to having studied basic food health and safety, at this point.19:08
daftykinsi just don't believe in leftovers19:10
daftykinsi eat what i cook, nothing's left :D19:11
brobostigonagreed, if all else fails, i store things properly, to have for lunch next day, however stores proerly, and at the right times.19:12
brobostigonyou dont store food in warm kitchens.19:12
zmoylan-piyes you do, in tin cans, jars and dehydrated :-)19:21
zmoylan-piplus cheese and honey which also work19:21
daftykinsmmm cheese19:22
daftykinsi'm sat here debating a shop run for junk food, to last the night19:22
zmoylan-pican't go wrong with a good bit of cheese19:22
zmoylan-pibabybel cheeses go down well on gaming days with a bunch of geeks19:23
daftykinstoo small :(19:24
zmoylan-pinice to nibble on19:24
daftykinstriple the diameter, then we're talking!19:25
brobostigoncheese you store in the fridge. and tins and cans, are vacuum sealed with all bacteria dead inside.19:25
shaunobut cheese is yummy bacteria?19:26
zmoylan-pithat's why spam is popular in hawaii, stores well in warm climate19:27
=== roht is now known as wadzi
shaunohad to laugh at this on reddit; "I have a mechanical keyboard and the key doesn't work, lease hel"20:25
zmoylan-pican i have a p please bob?20:25
daftykinszmoylan-pi: not after last time20:26
zmoylan-piwho here hasn't looked at the error on a computer screen 'keyboard not attached, press a key to continue' and felt a little despair :-)20:44
daftykinszmoylan-pi: honestly whoever came up with that needs to own up21:25
shaunoI dunno.  mine just makes a sad face.  it's not a huge improvement21:26
zmoylan-piat least to collect a special sadist award for cruelty :-)21:30
daftykinsdo you guys have any ideas as to when halt on keyboard is even desirable?21:33
shaunoall the times!  how else are you going to press F121:34
shaunoI dunno.  the silly part is that ps/2 isn't meant to be hot-plugged21:36
daftykinsi wish my mechanical still used PS/221:37
shaunoso it seems kinda silly having a screen asking you to insert a keyboard21:37
zmoylan-pii think it was meant for when a system might be set up as a novell server and you would want to down the server properly with no files open/locked so that you didn't want it to start with no keyboard attached.  /i think/...21:41

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