[04:33] <map> hi all
[10:46] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:49] <vad3rman1156> sup
[10:50] <brobostigon> morning vad3rman1156
[14:22] <penguin42> Ovo (eelc supplier) have an interesting account system; you earn interest on overpayments, and can extract money before the end of the term
[14:22] <map> thats decent
[14:22] <map> if im ever in credit at eon its a right pain getting it back
[14:24] <penguin42> yeh, it's just taken nearly 2 months to extract the end of contract credit from Flow gas
[14:24] <penguin42> I tend to change supplier each year
[14:24] <map> i usually dont just because of the hassle
[14:25] <penguin42> I think it's saving me money changing, althoguh frankly it's hard to tell
[14:26] <map> im gonna have to send my email later this week
[14:26] <map> paying for 100mbit getting like 20mbit speed max
[14:26] <penguin42> what on?
[14:26] <map> although il need to do what daftykins  said at some point
[14:26] <map> hat do you mean what on
[14:26] <penguin42> what isp/connectivity/technology?
[14:26] <map> gibtelecom
[14:26] <map> says fibre
[14:26] <penguin42> ah
[14:27] <map> like now download 10.51
[14:27] <map> lol
[14:27] <penguin42> yeh well you're probably sharing gig among your segment - but what's the link back to the mainland?
[14:27] <map> ]no idea tbh
[14:27] <map> i get that its shared and 'upto 100' but even at 3/4am
[14:27] <map> max 20
[14:27] <map> no point paying for 100 if im not getting ANYWHERE close
[14:28] <penguin42> try a traceroute and see if you can figure it out
[14:28] <penguin42> map: and where are you downloading from?
[14:29] <map> ive tried nearest possible mirrors for isos
[14:29] <map> also tried speedtest
[14:29] <map> traceroute to where anywhere in particular..google.co.uk?
[14:29] <penguin42> map: I'd be happy to try and do a compare from my supposed 50/60mbps cable
[14:29] <penguin42> map: The place you're downloading from
[14:30] <map> DSL Type:	ITU-T G.993.2 Annex B (VDSL2)
[14:30] <map> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:	13.410 / 100.016
[14:30] <map> Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]:	0 / 0
[14:30] <penguin42> oh, that's not fibre, that's VDSL
[14:30] <map> yea
[14:30] <map> but the site said fibre
[14:31] <map> https://www.gibtele.com/fibrebroadband/
[14:31] <penguin42> yeh most of the UK places advertise as fibre, but that's fibre to the cabinet - but still, where did that info come from - your modem?
[14:31] <penguin42> (I made a complaint to advertising standards about 10 years ago when they started doing that but they didn't get it)
[14:31] <map> yea jusgt logged into the router
[14:32] <map> dont get that tho
[14:32] <map> what speed does it think its connecting at?
[14:32] <penguin42> map: OK, so something in the router thinks you're on 100Mbps
[14:32] <map> il try and find a spanish mirror and test
[14:32] <penguin42> hmm, actually no those numbers don't quite make sense - although they might if you assume it's mbps not kbps
[14:32] <map> whys it say kbps? just an error with the page i guess
[14:32] <map> yea
[14:32] <penguin42> yeh
[14:33] <penguin42> map: Are you sure it's not the mirror ? What exactly are you trying to download from where?
[14:33] <map> ubuntu isos just a big file to test
[14:33] <map> not sure where else to use to test besides mirrors?
[14:34] <penguin42> which mirror are you using?
[14:34] <map> sec
[14:34] <map> 81.94.213.9 gona try tracert to that
[14:35] <map> took quite a while to get there
[14:36] <map> http://de.releases.ubuntu.com/utopic/
[14:36]  * penguin42 wonders where that actually is
[14:36] <map> what speed do you get off there..700ks here;[
[14:36] <map> its works IP address in the UK
[14:37] <penguin42> well that's probably in Germany?
[14:37] <map> yea it is
[14:37] <map> i cant find anywhere closer now
[14:37] <map> not sure where to use to try and test
[14:37] <penguin42> that's giving about 6MByte/sec - so about 50Mbps
[14:37] <map> yea see thats decent
[14:37] <map> im no even getting 1MB/s
[14:38] <map> any suggestions for something/somewhere to download from? doesnt matter what it is
[14:39] <penguin42> well what happens if you just drop the de. ?
[14:39] <penguin42> oh actually, that's going to the same host
[14:40]  * penguin42 suspects it's doing something clever there
[14:40] <map> not sure where it went to
[14:40] <map> :)
[14:41]  * penguin42 was going to sugges mirrorservice.org but for some reason it only has the ppc server isos of 14.10
[14:41] <map> thats ok though
[14:41] <penguin42> map: Well for a bandwidth test, http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/utopic/release/
[14:42] <penguin42> map: I'd bet your problem is just the bandwidth to the mainland
[14:42] <map> surely to spain i should be fine then
[14:43] <map> even on speedtest running a test from a site in Malaga or anywhere..max 20
[14:43] <map> lol 240kb/s
[14:46] <penguin42> map: Try france or portugal
[14:46] <map> willl do ta
[14:47] <shauno> I'd expect better service to the UK, tbh
[14:47] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh, I was just seeing the list of landing points for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_India_Gateway    it does have UK, but also Portugal and France, but not Spain
[14:50] <shauno> and this is why uni tell you off for citing wiki :)
[14:50] <map> possibly due to spain not recognising gibralar as a country
[14:50] <shauno> https://www.europeindiagateway.com/webclient/common/html/aboutus.html
[14:51] <shauno> they list gibraltar as one of the landing points, and gibtelecom are one of the part-owners
[14:51] <map> hm
[14:51] <map> so whys it son rubbish;[
[14:52] <shauno> no idea at all.  I just assumed you'd get better traffic down the cable, than over a disputed border  (speculation)
[14:53] <penguin42> map: Because the whole of gibraltar is using it to surf the net on a quiet sunday afternoon, and most of the rest of the world is using it to bet using gibraltar betting companies
[14:53] <map> lol
[14:54] <map> but what about when its 4am and it sucks
[14:54] <shauno> there's a good chance it simply sucks :)
[14:54] <map> ja
[14:54] <map> gonna have to contaCT THEM as its mad expensive too
[14:54] <map> 73 a month
[14:54] <map> why pay that for this rubbish
[14:54] <shauno> c&w, at&t, both owned massive infrastructure but were still pretty lousy as residential ISPs
[14:56] <map> 16mbit is only 28 quid..so may aswell switch to that if it doesnt get better?
[14:58] <penguin42> map: What difference do you get in the upload bandwidth if you drop down to 16mbit?
[15:00] <map> it just says download 16Mbps upload 16=.6
[15:00] <shauno> what happens if you pay for 16 and get a quarter of that instead?
[15:01] <map> well
[15:01] <penguin42> map: Yeh make sure you know what you're gettting upload; .6mbps would be a bit grim compared to your current supposed 13
[15:01] <map> il be annoyed again
[15:01] <map> im figuring they cant meet 100mbit requirements
[15:02] <map> but more likely to get full speed on 16?
[15:02] <shauno> perhaps you have someone like me as your nextdoor neighbour :)
[15:04] <map> ;]
[15:50] <daftykins> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:I13.410 / 100.016
[15:50] <daftykins> map: yeah that's kbps, because in Gibraltar, a period is used as a comma for numbers
[15:50] <daftykins> you should really check the actual line sync rate still
[15:51] <daftykins> looks like it's connected and provisioned at the correct speed, maybe you're just trying to do too much UK stuff with it? ;)
[15:56] <shauno> perhaps you just need to lower your expectations now that you're living on the edge of civilization =x
[15:56] <shauno> (btw, is it safe to assume that your vpn plays no part in these tests?)
[15:57] <daftykins> i think that's just when he's at work
[16:08] <shauno> I just discovere that in win7, if you grab a window and wave it around, it hides all other windows.  I'm now trying to figure out the logic behind this :/
[16:09] <daftykins> :D
[16:09] <daftykins> yeah the ol' wobble minimise and restore
[16:10] <shauno> but why?
[16:11] <daftykins> i can only imagine someone would have a tonne of junk up then want to focus on just one thing
[16:11] <daftykins> buuuut nope, doesn't make any sense
[16:11] <daftykins> could be a good boss protection thing i guess ;)
[16:12] <shauno> hm.  I was trying to get the window to snap against the 'edge' between two monitors.  I wasn't expecting that
[16:13] <shauno> (which also sounds like it should't work, but does work in one direction)
[16:14] <daftykins> yeah i always used super + d-pad
[16:14] <daftykins> *use
[16:15] <daftykins> i can't go back to Vista and before now, as they lack this :(
[16:15] <zmoylan-pi> well pre win 7 a humongus amount of cpu and ram was used to draw screen if only 1 pixel of 1gb file was on screen so maybe they cut a few corners :-)
[16:15] <daftykins> not that i want to use Vista or earlier
[16:15] <zmoylan-pi> or in a folder on the desktop
[16:16] <daftykins> i somewhat doubt that claim
[16:17] <zmoylan-pi> tis true, i'll try and dig up proof but take any win vista system or earlier and move 4gb from my documents to a folder on desktop and compare perfermorance before and after
[16:17] <shauno> daftykins: a scholar and a gentleman!  super+cursors is exactly what I was looking for
[16:17] <daftykins> shauno: :D woohoo \o/
[16:17] <zmoylan-pi> in my docs no performance hit, on desktop or in folder below desktop grind to a halt
[16:18] <shauno> it seems I can only do it with the mouse in one direction because the monitors aren't the same size.  so I can snap up against the 'step'
[16:18] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: upon doing what? browsing with an explorer window?
[16:19] <shauno> that reminds me of when 95 was new, and people would complain that leaving icons on the desktop "used up ram"
[16:19] <daftykins> is that even true 0o
[16:20] <zmoylan-pi> any time windows went to redraw the desktop it checked with all the apps and then had a rummage in desktop folder in windows to see what the background should look like on top of the current theme
[16:20] <shauno> not to any significant measure, I believe
[16:20] <shauno> and then we had all the scare-mongering from admins who hated us leaving stuff on the desktop because only 'my documents' was propogated to network backups
[16:20] <zmoylan-pi> in windows 3.x even icons on desktop used resources enough to make a difference
[16:21] <daftykins> ah yes Desktop content remains on-system and was never seen again
[16:21] <daftykins> i remember them locking down the desktop at my old College, much to the anger of those that stored desktop shortcuts or documents also
[16:22] <daftykins> if you wanted to run anything that wasn't on the start menu (such as cmd) you had to make your own shortcut in your user area
[16:22] <shauno> ours mostly worked because we habitually took the same workstations each day. so what we were told was 'wrong and didn't work', continued to work
[16:22] <daftykins> :D
[16:23] <daftykins> doesn't do much for disk failure mind you
[16:23] <shauno> we actually had the opposite.  we had an optical link between two campuses.
[16:23] <zmoylan-pi> well then you're into disks spinning up and down increasing or lowering hard disk life
[16:23] <shauno> so whenever there was a proper sea haar, you'd find you could login to get hte stuff off your desktop - but not from 'my documents'
[16:24] <zmoylan-pi> differing opinions on files on desktops slowing down things.  http://superuser.com/questions/30710/is-that-true-that-if-you-keep-bulky-files-on-the-desktop-then-windows-slow-down
[16:24] <shauno> large parts of the network were completely dependent on the weather.
[16:25] <daftykins> opinions? are these not people of science?!
[16:25] <zmoylan-pi> well ireland, weather. i'm surprised some days the electricity has made it out of power station it's so damp :-)
[16:25] <zmoylan-pi> we still haven't agreed that vim is the best text editor :-p
[16:25] <shauno> oh I didn't go to college here :)  that was eons ago
[16:26] <shauno> have you ever noticed the 'thumbs' hidden file that you get when you've copied a folder off a windows machine?
[16:26] <zmoylan-pi> there were many times i drastically speeded up a crawling windows desktop by moving a few gigabytes from desktop folder to my documents.  /my 2c
[16:27] <shauno> that file is why windows doesn't have to reindex the desktop every single time it becomes visible.  such stuff is cached
[17:12] <foobarry> anyone on ircnet? having a problem i can't figure out. when i join, there is a bitlbee session i connect to. i can't seem to /join any chans
[17:40] <foobarry> hmm. ebay down for me
[17:41] <foobarry> oh, www.ebay.co.uk works. not without www
[18:21] <map> shauno,  yea vpn isnt plaing part at all
[18:21] <map> the VPNs on 90mbit sky anyway with a decent upload so wouldnt hamper it so much?
[18:27] <daftykins> map: lol yes it would.
[18:27] <daftykins> you don't apply extra hops then speed test XD
[18:27] <map> sure
[18:27] <map> i wasnt tho;p
[18:27] <daftykins> you really need to try some local mirrors then
[18:27] <map> fixed my pi..it all comes on after a reboot/powercut
[18:28] <map> apache/openvpn starts automatically..iptables rules loaded and wifi connects with same ip :)
[18:28] <map> so if it goes wrong again il hve no idea why
[18:28] <map> cant see any local ones..spain best? although shauno  said the gib -> spain link was crap or something?
[18:29] <daftykins> funnily enough my internalised database of international links doesn't cover Gibraltar (:
[18:29] <map> damn!
[18:29] <map> ;]
[18:29] <map> strange
[18:29] <map> phone couldnt get a signal..then says searching comes back as orange
[18:29] <map> normally only get orange es when in spain
[18:29] <map> and gibtel right the way until quite far in la linea
[18:30] <penguin42> map: I'd make sure it's not routing via the vpn, the IP you mentioned before I tried to traceroute to went via a bet365 address which suggests perhaps it's a VPN end point?
[18:30] <map> penguin42, thats the work IP in UK office
[18:30] <map> i was uust using it as an ip to traceroute
[18:31] <penguin42> map: that was a bad idea
[18:31] <map> speedtest in UK says the uk office is pretty fast tho
[18:31] <map> why?
[18:31] <map> i figured itd be ok to use that IP its got a decent link so surely routing is good
[18:31] <penguin42> map: Routes between places don't necessarily go the same way just because they both happen to be in the same country
[18:32] <map> i know that:D
[18:32] <penguin42> map: Especially if you have VPN stuff around
[18:32] <map> 900k off a mirror in Marseille
[18:32] <map> lol
[18:32] <map> il do what daftykins  said to tomorrow (off work) and see what it says
[18:33] <map> then il have to email them..it sucks bad paying and getting like 1/5 of what i should
[18:33] <daftykins> well it's kind of a moot point now
[18:33] <map> why?
[18:33] <map> ive tested speed downloading isos from numerouis mirrors
[18:34] <map> spain/france uk kent mirror service ..250ks lol
[18:34] <daftykins> because your provisioned rates have to be higher than sync rates, and you've already shared those
[18:34] <map> ah
[18:34] <daftykins> so you to the ISP is fine, it's from there onwards that's up for debate
[18:35] <map> could it be a simple mistake their end?:Z
[18:35] <daftykins> doubt it
[18:35] <map> :(
[18:35] <map> so il probably never really get 100mbit speeds
[18:35] <map> grmpf
[18:36] <map> well if i get ut sirted si un bit oaying for 100 wont be too bad
[18:37] <daftykins> this is why you need to test from a nearby mirror
[18:37] <map> but theres none nearby!
[18:37] <map> spain is nearest geographically
[18:38] <daftykins> i noticed your telco's speedtest link just kinda fails
[18:38] <daftykins> well yeah but damn well find one :P don't just throw your hands up like an undergrad
[18:39] <map> lol does it thats crap
[18:39] <daftykins> well it did the other day
[18:39] <map> i cant see there being a gibraltar mirror;p
[18:40] <daftykins> contact them and ask for a file mirror they host in their data centre
[18:41] <shauno> "since you can't give me the speeds I pay for, can you at least host a mirror so we can pretend?"
[18:41] <daftykins> 8D
[18:42] <shauno> I pay for 120 and tend to get 150-180 depending on the time of day (or !day)
[18:43] <map> heh
[18:43] <daftykins> is that over cable?
[18:43] <shauno> which i starting to get a bit silly. you barely notice the extra 60meg
[18:43] <shauno> yeah
[18:43] <daftykins> barely notice? :)
[18:43] <daftykins> the rate adaptability of cable is kinda funny
[18:44] <shauno> it's sold as fibre, but I don't know where the fibre actually starts.  it's coax at the wall
[18:45] <map> i expect il speak to someone who will say like 'oh its the time of day' 'or depends on what ytoure trying' - but ive tried so many diff mirrors as stated here and ive tried at 3am/4am 6am ..1pm 4pm etc
[18:45] <shauno> phone them up at 3am :)
[18:45] <penguin42> shauno: Sounds like you're on Cable - DOCSIS?
[18:45] <map> heh shauno
[18:45] <map> :)
[18:46] <daftykins> everything's called fibre these days, it's one of the present day's biggest lies
[18:46] <map> yea
[18:46] <daftykins> just goes to show consumer naivety really :(
[18:46] <zmoylan-pi> it's right up there with unlimited and 4g :-)
[18:46] <map> i figure il prob email that way they can forward the email to others rather than me having to explain to one operator..then ANOTHER AND SO ON!!
[18:46] <daftykins> when someone says their tubes are fibre, i know they don't have a clue
[18:46] <map> fibre to the box
[18:46] <map> :D
[18:47] <daftykins> there are many boxes
[18:48] <zmoylan-pi> it's more of a trapezoid than a box :-p
[18:51] <map> heh
[18:51] <map> so everyone agreee? best for me to email my mug ISP:p
[18:51] <map> havent paid a bill yet and theres no direct debit payment..so i might not pay till they a) sort my speed b) lower me to a diff tarrif if they cant provide 100 as stated
[18:52] <daftykins> i'd ask for a testing methodology in the first instance
[18:53] <map> like a local mirror..then when they say..none?:D
[18:54] <daftykins> damn you're stubborn
[18:54] <brobostigon> would everyone agree, that leaving food out in the kitchen after it has been cooked for 24 hrs, is unsafe to eat?
[18:54] <daftykins> if they're throwing out a service their backbone links can't provide for, i would think they'd be aware of it
[18:54] <daftykins> brobostigon: if uncovered, it wouldn't be wise, no. depends on the environment really
[18:55] <map> depends on what food
[18:55] <map> i prob wouldn eat
[18:55] <brobostigon> daftykins: uncovered is not the issue, its average environmental temperature, and average bacterial growth at those temperatures, which make it unsafe.
[18:56] <map> me stubborn? i said if:P pfft
[18:56] <daftykins> i think that's going a bit deep for my interests
[18:57] <brobostigon> however, its fair to say, its not safe, basic logic tells me that.
[18:58] <daftykins> yeah i wouldn't leave food out
[18:58] <brobostigon> me neither.
[18:58] <brobostigon> after its cooled, in the fridge it goes.
[18:59] <map> odd that putting hot food into a fridge is bad
[18:59] <map> i should google and read why heh
[18:59] <brobostigon> bacterial growth, its too high a termperature differential.
[18:59] <map> i see
[19:00] <map> id have thought its ok though as the foods cooked
[19:00] <brobostigon> between the food and the fridge.
[19:00] <map> but yea i dont know
[19:00] <map> yea
[19:00] <map> HOMELAND TONIGHT ;D
[19:08]  * brobostigon admits to having studied basic food health and safety, at this point.
[19:10] <daftykins> i just don't believe in leftovers
[19:11] <daftykins> i eat what i cook, nothing's left :D
[19:12] <brobostigon> agreed, if all else fails, i store things properly, to have for lunch next day, however stores proerly, and at the right times.
[19:12] <brobostigon> stored*
[19:12] <brobostigon> you dont store food in warm kitchens.
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> yes you do, in tin cans, jars and dehydrated :-)
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> plus cheese and honey which also work
[19:22] <daftykins> mmm cheese
[19:22] <daftykins> i'm sat here debating a shop run for junk food, to last the night
[19:22] <zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with a good bit of cheese
[19:22] <daftykins> indeed!
[19:23] <zmoylan-pi> babybel cheeses go down well on gaming days with a bunch of geeks
[19:24] <daftykins> too small :(
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> nice to nibble on
[19:25] <daftykins> triple the diameter, then we're talking!
[19:25] <brobostigon> cheese you store in the fridge. and tins and cans, are vacuum sealed with all bacteria dead inside.
[19:26] <shauno> but cheese is yummy bacteria?
[19:27] <zmoylan-pi> that's why spam is popular in hawaii, stores well in warm climate
[20:25] <shauno> had to laugh at this on reddit; "I have a mechanical keyboard and the key doesn't work, lease hel"
[20:25] <zmoylan-pi> can i have a p please bob?
[20:26] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not after last time
[20:44] <zmoylan-pi> who here hasn't looked at the error on a computer screen 'keyboard not attached, press a key to continue' and felt a little despair :-)
[21:25] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: honestly whoever came up with that needs to own up
[21:26] <shauno> I dunno.  mine just makes a sad face.  it's not a huge improvement
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> at least to collect a special sadist award for cruelty :-)
[21:33] <daftykins> do you guys have any ideas as to when halt on keyboard is even desirable?
[21:34] <shauno> all the times!  how else are you going to press F1
[21:34] <daftykins> =[
[21:36] <shauno> I dunno.  the silly part is that ps/2 isn't meant to be hot-plugged
[21:36] <daftykins> :D
[21:37] <daftykins> i wish my mechanical still used PS/2
[21:37] <shauno> so it seems kinda silly having a screen asking you to insert a keyboard
[21:41] <zmoylan-pi> i think it was meant for when a system might be set up as a novell server and you would want to down the server properly with no files open/locked so that you didn't want it to start with no keyboard attached.  /i think/...