/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/07/#ubuntu-uk.txt

diddledanhttp://research.dyn.com/2014/11/chinese-routing-errors-redirect-russian-traffic/01:02
diddledanfun01:02
diddledanfrom russia to russia.. via shanghai01:02
daftykins\o/01:02
daftykinsdiddledan: can't decide if the banner pic on that whitchurch link suggests children are happily running around youthfully and excitedly, or whether there's some kind of native impending doom they suffer from01:06
diddledanhaha, I see what you mean01:07
diddledanok, so virgin just emailed me my account number and "area reference" - I go to the sign up for ebilling page and it tells me the account number doesn't exist01:10
diddledanmaybe I'm jumping the gun01:10
daftykinsdoes seem a bit odd01:11
daftykinsthese providers online systems do seem to require a change of wind direction prior to working though01:11
shaunodid dan fix the googles?01:39
daftykinsi'm not sure01:41
* daftykins pokes diddledan with a virgin media01:41
diddledanI fixed it by turning on ipv6 tunnel :-p01:41
diddledanmore a workaround than a fix01:42
shaunoheh01:42
daftykinsi had to get that Austrian guy to edit the windows hosts file to put his own domain as the LAN IP of his webserver yesterday, to get around the page not properly loading from inside his network01:44
daftykinsvery odd situation01:44
shaunoI think I've seen that before, when they're port-forwarding inwards01:48
daftykinsyep01:48
daftykinswhen i've seen it though, they typically don't get anything at all01:49
daftykinshe gets the text and sometimes images of his website, but it doesn't display correctly across the main browsers01:49
shaunolike traffic that's destined to their own IP misses a step when it goes from lan-wan, and doesn't go via the translation table01:49
shaunooh weird01:49
daftykinsi tried SSH'ing in and opening a SOCKS proxy, same issue01:49
daftykinsDNS queries for his domain are correct, but oddly entering that into the browser insta-fails01:49
daftykinsi think it said connection reset 0o01:50
daftykinsi'd have packet sniffed the session maybe to see what was going on, but i decided to cheat with the hosts workaround01:50
shaunodoes he see requests for the missing parts showing up on his server?01:50
daftykinsooh that'd be a good shout01:50
daftykinsi think the images loaded only the times immediately after i'd correctly loaded the site from outside (e.g. from my home connection)01:51
daftykinsso they could've been cached01:51
shaunoI guess that's where I'd look.  look in the console / inspector on the browser, see if it's refusing things for cross-domain policies.  and then see what requests show up on the webserver, and if it logs any reason to refuse them01:57
shaunothat should narrow down what's eating stuff where01:57
daftykins:) ty sir, good ideas01:57
daftykinsit started with his ISP's new router though, i suspect funky play there01:58
shauno(or C; back away slowly, it's working)01:58
daftykinsyeah my dirty hack is pretty reliable ;D it's always tempting to want to understand these things more deeply though01:59
shaunosometimes :)  sometimes it's better for your sanity if you don't ..02:00
daftykins:D02:01
daftykinsi hadn't spoken to that guy since my accident so it ended up being something like a 4hr chat to catch up on things02:01
shaunoso, random story that may or may not have just happened at work this week02:01
daftykinsooh?02:02
shauno"product" now has an ios app, because, yaknow, managers feel like they're missing something if they don't have "an app" under their belt02:02
daftykinsabsolutely!02:02
shaunolast friday, they sent a mailshot out to every current customer letting them know this02:02
shaunomonday, the release that supports the app hits the backend02:03
shaunomonday, the customers start calling ...02:03
daftykins:S02:03
daftykinsfruity customers? :D02:03
shaunoso, I found a nifty way of eating this stuff is to let my laptop forward wifi to lan, so I can capture my own phone :)02:03
shaunoand the hostname looks really rather suspect.  so I shoot an email off to the developers asking why it's still trying to hit the stage servers02:04
daftykinsbeats an ARP spoof!02:04
diddledanhaha02:05
shaunothey inform me this is by design, and it'll be re-pointed in the release version next month02:05
daftykinslol02:05
diddledano_O02:05
daftykins"but but, it's LIVE TODAY!"02:05
shaunoright :)02:05
daftykins*facepalm*02:05
shaunoI really, really want to know how development & management got that far out of sync02:06
daftykinscertainly speaks of zero quality assurance doesn't it :(02:06
daftykinsnot a single test in the book02:06
shaunooh that much they do seem to be doing.  and still are02:07
daftykinsmmm just let the horse out of the stable a bit early02:08
shaunoit seems to just be a really, really screwed up release process.  they put it in the store because it's easier to push to the relevant parties that way02:08
daftykinslol02:08
shaunoinstead of using 'testflight', or getting everyone to register their phones, or something sensible02:08
shauno'comedy of errors' is turning into a theme lately though :/02:10
shaunoI found an api that returns <ok>API_ERROR</ok>.  and the consumer tests for <ok> and decides it's, well, okay.  it doesn't look for a value within it.02:11
daftykins:D02:12
shaunoso <ok/> and <ok>no, really not okay</ok> have exactly the same meaning02:14
shaunoto backtrack, I found a way to disable ssl on our products.  which turned into a goldmine for debug, because you can actually see what's failing now02:15
daftykinsdidn't backtrack turn into kali?02:15
shaunoI mean in the literal sense :)02:16
daftykinsah :D02:16
shaunoso I've spent a whole lot of time over the last 2 weeks, pouring over captures for anything we never managed to solve the first time around02:16
shaunoit's roughly 50/50 between "aha, that's what's wrong!"  and "what .. who .. why ..  wait, who wrote this?"02:17
daftykinshehe, resisting the urge to head-desk?02:18
shaunobut some of the stuff I've found is hilarious.  like an edge-case that fails if the endpoint doesn't have a phonenumber.  because 15 years ago, this whole mess ran over dialup. and some components still haven't been told.02:19
daftykinsoh my word O_O02:19
shaunoI miss our last manager.  he was really good at hiding stuff02:23
daftykinshe'd cover up the above? :>02:24
shaunohe'd been with it from the start, so he knew all the quirks02:24
shaunothe new guy doesn't know, doesn't want to, and starting putting us in touch with the devs directly02:25
shaunoand all innocence was lost02:25
daftykinswould a better manager take your input and feed it back to them to fix directly?02:25
shaunoI'm actually not sure02:26
shaunoI'm just left feeling like .. the end of the wizard of oz.  except they pull back the curtain and don't find a wizard, don't find an old man pretending to be a wizard02:26
shaunobut find 20 squirrels frantically pressing buttons to see what happens02:27
daftykins:D02:28
daftykinsi've been pretty disillusioned by workplaces since finishing education, that everywhere seems to be run by a batch of said squirrels02:29
shaunothis is the first place I've worked that has more than 5 employees02:30
daftykins:O02:30
daftykinshow very niche of you! :)02:30
shaunonow I'm one of 170,000.  "completely different" would be an understatement02:31
shaunoit's left me very impressed that centipedes can actually walk02:32
shaunoinstead of having one leg at the front trying to steer, 3 at the back trying to push the whole thing forward, and the rest all holding meetings about .. something02:33
daftykins:D02:34
daftykinsor much falling over02:34
shaunoanyway.  I'm gonna quit ranting and go to bed.  I have to be early tomorrow because someone scheduled me for a conf call in the wrong timezone :/02:37
shaunoI get to teach an electrician how to use tcpdump.  at 7am.  it's gonna rock.02:38
daftykinsWAT02:41
daftykinselectrician :(02:41
daftykinsgood luck with that sir o/02:41
shaunoit's actually a semi-sensible solution02:41
shaunovery paranoid customer who has a vetted list of externals.  so the plan is to find the most obedient person on that list, rather than try to get someone new added02:42
daftykinswhat to do? :D02:43
shaunowell, pcaps :)02:44
shauno(this actually works.  many years of doing tech support for mum pays off.  if you can talk your mother through it, you're set)02:45
daftykinshahaha02:46
shaunoseriously.  my mother has a good grasp of what ports are, and what "well known ports" are.  it's amazing02:46
shaunoI can't remember why it came up, but I explained about phone numbers, and switchboard extensions, and being able to ask for 'accounting' instead of a number.  and it seems it stuck02:48
shaunoanyway.  'night.02:48
daftykinsnn sir :)02:48
=== map is now known as mapps
=== zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi
davmor2Morning all09:19
MooDoomorning davmor209:22
foobarrythese guys who are selling new books cheaper than amazon are sending from the states09:39
foobarryhow can they send for £2.80 postage?09:40
zmoylan-piwater proof books with cover wedged open as a sail09:40
foobarryheh09:41
foobarryrip off britain09:42
zmoylan-piif you think uk is bad, irish prices are uk prices converted to euro with a markup on top09:43
foobarryreally need to stop looking at the news page09:44
foobarrygrim and depressing09:44
foobarryprobably worst example of that is today09:44
zmoylan-pithe number of days when you can look at the news and be happy is 009:44
foobarryhhe09:45
foobarrytech news is different09:45
zmoylan-pithe number of days when you can look at the tech news and be happy is > 009:45
foobarryg+  makes me happyish09:45
zmoylan-pibut not by much09:45
foobarryexcept whent he verge posts i-news09:45
zmoylan-pig+ made me completely switch off google09:45
foobarrywhat good tech news sites do you read on g+?09:46
foobarryi had to turn engadget back on about verge annoyred me09:46
ali1234the verge is nearly as bad as the register09:46
foobarrythey don't hide their fanboyism but their non apple stories are quite interesting09:47
foobarrynot that i read the articles, the headlines are sufficient09:47
foobarryi rely on cooleagues to tell me any useful register stories09:47
foobarryi can't stand them09:47
foobarrybut they have useful stuff e.g. the vmware CBT issue09:47
zmoylan-pii just flip through the headlines in rss for a number of tech sites.09:48
ali1234i just look at reddit09:48
foobarryi quit reddit due to borderline addiction and time sink09:48
zmoylan-pii quit reddit due to hivemind09:48
foobarryoh yes, never any default subs09:49
foobarryi learned that after a week09:49
zmoylan-pidoesn't matter how right you are, if you don't agree with the concensus you'll be downvoted to obilivion09:49
zmoylan-pionly moderation system i've ever seen work _was_ slashdots as you had to earn right to upvote/downvote09:50
foobarryonce due to lack of sleep and fatigue i mentioned the breastapo in a parenting subreddit09:51
ali1234who cares though?09:51
ali1234downvoting doesn't do much on reddit09:51
foobarryincurred the wrath of a million breastfeeding nazis09:52
ali1234it's not like slashdot where it is impossible to see anything modded down09:52
zmoylan-pian individual downvote, no.  a mass downvote by a bot...09:52
foobarryreddit has a option to not show downvoted entries09:52
zmoylan-pion slashdot you're just modded troll, wrong, offtopic.  no need to have -1000 votes09:53
ali1234yes, and the groupthink on slashdot is much much worse09:53
zmoylan-piat least you where, now it's been bought and changed09:53
ali1234slashdot is basically now exactly like reddit, except with only about 50 users09:54
zmoylan-pino on slashdot 2 opposing opinions could be voted insightful.  it's the way it should be09:54
zmoylan-pibut i am talking past tense.  the last year has been a sad one for slashdot users09:54
ali1234slashdot loves opinions. post facts and you're at -1 and nobody ever sees it09:54
zmoylan-pinot in my experience09:54
ali1234just look at this: http://ask.slashdot.org/story/14/10/18/1527231/ask-slashdot-stop-pulseaudio-from-changing-sound-settings09:56
zmoylan-pifrom this year...09:56
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.09:56
ali1234the funniest part is it turned out OP just hadn't bothered updating his system...09:58
zmoylan-piyeah, slashdot had a mass exodous to soylentnews earlier this year, soylent feels a lot like slashdot back in 9909:59
* zmoylan-pi waves cane in the air at whippersnappers :-)09:59
popeynever heard of soylentnews09:59
ali1234i have09:59
ali1234imagine slashdot except most articles have less than 10 comments10:00
popeyright10:00
zmoylan-pibut comments are good again10:00
popeyFSVO Good10:00
TwistedLucidityali1234: There are no problems with PulseAudio. Sounds on Linux is a solved problem. Linus said so. :-P10:01
zmoylan-pitrue but i prefer it more and more over the alternatives10:01
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Friday, and happy Hug a Bear Day! :-D10:01
zmoylan-pisound is less difficult, wifi is where the frustration is at10:01
TwistedLucidityI thought the volume change was a feature and not a bug. Allows for different volume setting headphones vs speakers so you don't implode your ear drums.10:02
ali1234TwistedLucidity: it is a feature. a feature that didn't work properly until recently due to a bug in ALSA introduced by lennart and found by me10:03
ali1234it's supposed to remember the volume levels for each device and reload them when you plug it in10:03
TwistedLucidityali1234: Sweet. I must have been lucky with updates as it passed me by10:03
ali1234what it does instead is reset all devices to default volume whenever anything is plugged in10:03
TwistedLucidityWhat grates my carrot is the inability to correctly balance the speakers in Pulse.10:04
ali1234this is fixed in debian unstable anyway, OP just didn't update10:04
ali1234but the point is I had to track down his email and talk to him directly to sort it out, because slashdot moderation is a mess10:04
TwistedLucidityWell...if they'd gone to the PA bugtracker (or Launchpad or...) it would have been a better start.10:05
zmoylan-pithey broke it and replaced it with a reddit knockoff after switching to new 'beta' system10:05
ali1234the bug isn't on the PA bug tracker10:05
ali1234and DBTS is awful - impossible to search or browse it10:06
ali1234the only bug tracker worse than bugzilla10:06
zmoylan-pisounds like a... bug :-p10:07
ali1234DBTS is the only reason I don't use debian10:07
TwistedLucidityYou haven't seen the IBM p.o.s. I have to suffer10:07
zmoylan-piif it's ibm, pos is implied10:07
popeyaaaaagh10:09
* davmor2 bear hugs JamesTait 10:09
popeyfirefox so slow10:09
JamesTaitThat's the spirit, davmor2. :)10:09
zmoylan-piqupzilla is a lite browser, bit crashy but nippy10:09
popeyonly 11 tabs open10:09
zmoylan-pibut for how long and on what sites?10:10
zmoylan-pitweetdeck sucks ram the longer it is run10:10
davmor2popey: use the ubuntu-browser10:11
TwistedLuciditypopey: Sure it's FF and not just some site open in FF? There is a lot of dodgy JS out there....10:12
zmoylan-pii find killing the browser and restarting it once twice a day speeds things up a fair bit10:13
zmoylan-pisad but true10:13
TwistedLucidityFF does seem to be a big heavy, but I normally run it with 15+ tabs open; to be expected I guess. I would use another browser, but haven't found one as good.10:16
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)10:17
bigcalmText on my desktop has shrunk. Anybody know how to fix this? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml58sgxt2qglke1/tiny_text.png?dl=010:18
davmor2popey: see if the googletalk is still running if it is kill that10:18
popeyTwistedLucidity: chromium doesn't slow down like this with the same sites10:20
popeyso while there may be "crappy js" out there, my point remains that ff feels slower than other browsers10:20
TwistedLucidityAdd-ons also cause issues.10:20
TwistedLucidityBut if Chromium works better...10:20
popeyyes, vague hand-wavy things are true, but I want to find the specifics ☹10:21
ali1234what do you mean "specifics"?10:21
popeywell, on chromium with "every tab is a process" I can see which one is eating the cpu10:21
popeyall I can see here is one big ff process10:21
popeyso no way of knowing which tab it is, or which extension it is10:22
ali1234if you go to about:memory you can see memory use per tab... it's a good bet that the one using 4GB is also using the CPU10:22
davmor2popey: isn't there  adebug mode for firefox10:22
popeyabout:memory is somewhat obtuse to read, but okay10:22
popeynone are using a lot of RAM10:23
popeytotal footprint of ff is 1.6GB10:23
popeyI'm not doing anything and its using 50% cpu and typing in the browser is painful10:26
davmor2popey: FF for me is like 8% what do you do to it :)10:27
popeyyes, of course, my fault, sorry.10:28
popeykilled the google talk plugin10:28
popeystill 30-40%10:28
popey 5066 alan      20   0 2640424 1.137g 108128 S  70.8  7.3 299:27.85 firefox10:28
ali1234it's normally around 30% for me10:29
davmor2popey: do you have google plus open10:30
davmor2popey: I just discovered in FF with gplus, if you have a screen full of text about 10% screen with 2 gifs 53%10:31
ali1234yet another example of why anything other that native processes on the CPU is a bad idea in general10:32
zmoylan-pisome sort of g+ client perhaps... :-)10:32
ali1234offloading to the GPU has the same problem: namely, no processes management10:33
davmor2popey:  6557 davmor2   20   0 2198868 0.994g  89580 S   6.6 13.0   3:20.32 firefox  on text  6557 davmor2   20   0 2200088 0.988g  89580 R  54.1 12.9   3:31.25 firefox     on 2 gifs10:34
davmor2popey: I blame imgurl close that tab ;)10:39
vad3rman1156what's the best network for an android tablet for calls, texts and Internet? please do not say giffgaff!10:52
zmoylan-pidefine best, cheap, fast?10:54
vad3rman1156huh?10:54
vad3rman1156like best for signal etc10:54
zmoylan-piah, reliable, surely that would depend on what part of uk you live in?10:55
vad3rman1156birmingham10:55
* popey says giffgaff11:02
* vad3rman1156 slaps popey 11:04
davmor2vad3rman1156: well begin as you can get most sim cards either free or for a pound from you local corner shop I suggest go grab some find the one with the best signal and then top that one up :)11:04
davmor2free from provider11:04
vad3rman1156well I had a giffgaff I topped up but due to bad signal my tab was dying QUICK!11:05
* zmoylan-pi seems to remember apps on android way back that showed what 2g/3g towers where nearby and what signal strenght they where...11:05
vad3rman1156< new to android :P11:06
davmor2vad3rman1156: Network Signal Info11:07
zmoylan-pithis was on my first android device a htc hero which shipped with donut iirc11:07
vad3rman1156yeah better battery stats kept saying no or unknown signal.11:07
vad3rman1156thinking about it, my phone is on giffgaff and that only gets 3 hours screen on....giffgaff sucks!11:08
* czajkowski tickles davmor2 hello sunshine! 12:11
davmor2czajkowski: hello12:11
willcookeali1234, hi!  Do you have a circuit diagram for your 433 remote control sockets project?  From the photo on G+ it looks like "just plug it in" and there any other components on the top side of the Minimus board?12:39
willcookes/and there/are there12:40
ali1234nope, it is just the two boards directly connected together12:40
willcookeali1234, nice! thanks12:40
willcookeali1234, how long is your antenna if you don't mind me asking? ;)12:40
ali1234as long as you see in the picture. about 1 inch12:40
willcookethanks12:40
ali1234the radio board only has four pins, power, gnd, data, antenna12:41
ali1234power and data are connected directly to GPIO lines so that it can be turned off when not in use12:41
ali1234gnd is gnd and antenna is any piece of wire12:41
Azelphurwhelp, that's my day ruined. http://i.imgur.com/I50wEj1.jpg xD12:42
willcookeali1234, brilliant!  I'm going to give it a go, I'll let you know how I get on.  Thanks for the software too :)12:42
Azelphurno fancy home automation lights for me just yet.12:42
ali1234willcooke: did you find somewhere that sells minimus boards and isn't incredibly dodgy?12:43
ali1234they are, in my opinion, the best AVR dev board anyone has ever made12:43
ali1234but unfortunately they were designed for illegal purposes, so nobody legit sells them12:44
willcookeali1234, ha!  No, ebay in the end - but quite expensive @ 8.50 each (or thereabouts) but the Tyneside place just feels bad to me.  Paypal doesnt work anymore and the other payment provide looks dodgy as hell12:44
willcookethey're hard to find, even on places like aliexpress12:44
willcookeI think a few hackspaces have a load of them, but none near me sadly12:45
ali1234i actually bought them from a different place12:45
ali1234but that place was even more dodgy, i had to pay with bitcoin12:45
willcooke:D12:45
ali1234they arrived in less than 24 hours though12:45
ali1234the website crashed when taking my order however12:45
willcookeha!12:46
ali1234and i had to email the owner and sort it all out manually12:46
willcookeurgh12:46
willcookeHopefully ebay will come through12:46
foobarryheh12:46
ali1234the code should be trivial to port to a different board anyway, it's just that nobody else makes boards that you can plug directly in like a thumbdrive; that's the best thing ever12:47
foobarrybefore ebay there used to be much more consumer confidence12:47
foobarrynow i assume everything is fake12:47
zmoylan-pinothing like a russian url for an ecommerce site to inspire trust :-)12:47
willcooke:)12:48
foobarryallofmp312:48
ali1234what i need now is a 433MHz lightswitch so i can control the "big" light as well as all the lamps12:49
zmoylan-pii wanted the russian dos that they used on satellites for a dos point of sales system we were setting up way back but i couldn't get my boss to trust the russkies :-(12:49
zmoylan-pisome sort of nerf turret that shoots the light switches? :-p12:50
willcookeali1234, could you dismantle one of those plugs and fit it inline with the pendant?  Leave the main switch on all the time to provide power12:52
willcookehide it in the lamp shade12:52
ali1234yeah, i don't really like messing with mains electricity12:53
ali1234but i thought about it12:53
willcooke:)12:53
willcookeyou just have to jump at the right time and it's totally safe12:53
zmoylan-pithe nerf gives you a compressed air gap :-)12:53
ali1234it should be possible to put it inside the light switch pattress box, then i wouldn't need to leave the switch in a particular position (because the switch thing is just a relay)12:54
willcookegetting live & neutral to a light switch isn't straight forward12:55
willcookein my house at least, the switch only has a live and earth12:55
willcookeneutral is provide by the lighting ring in the ceiling12:55
foobarrythis is why we go to work12:56
foobarryto pay people to do dangerous things12:56
foobarryand to fix our cars12:56
willcookewhere's the fun in that? ;)12:56
zmoylan-pieyebrows are for losers :-)12:56
popeypeople who owned my house before us, used the earth for neutral from downstairs to upstairs light switch12:56
popey"lol"12:56
foobarryits part of hte wedding vows12:57
willcookepopey, that's not that uncommon12:57
willcookesadly12:57
willcookehouse built in the late 60s early 70s?12:57
popeythe guy who owned it is a builder12:57
willcookethere you go12:58
popeyloads of silly things like that12:58
foobarryour extension has seen different guys to do the bricks/digging/roof/etc12:58
foobarrybuilder owns house: does everything :S12:59
czajkowskioh soo full yummy nice food stalls in the streets around here!13:05
czajkowskibonus for leaving the house13:05
willcookeczajkowski, is your office in London?  How often are you down there?13:07
czajkowskiwillcooke: every monday from now on although next week I'm up there 3 days as we're at Apps World13:08
czajkowskiover in Shoreditch13:08
willcookeczajkowski, I'll give you a shout if I'm in town on a Monday13:09
czajkowskido indeed13:10
popeywillcooke: we went to apps world once didnt we?13:10
willcookepopey, yeah - it sucked13:10
popeyremember all those Smart TVs with Big Buck Bunny on ☻13:10
willcookeso, ya know - have fun czajkowski  :D13:10
czajkowskindeed13:11
willcookethat was a few years ago, but it was full of one-man-band app creator companies all offering the same thing13:12
willcooketo write your generic app for iphone & android13:12
czajkowskiwillcooke: popey yes we're there to promote http://developer.couchbase.com/mobile/13:18
popeyneato13:19
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
ujjainI have a question for Londonians.13:25
ujjainwhere should I watch bonfire night this Saturday evening?13:25
zmoylan-pii thought bonfire night was the 5th?13:26
ujjainor are all places in London kind of the same, people just want to get drunk rather than it being a nice spectacle as in the south, Lewis, Brighton etc.13:26
zmoylan-pior is it moveable?13:26
foobarrytheres a special thingin london  on saturday13:26
ujjainYeah, but a lot of stuff still happening this weekend13:26
zmoylan-piireland could be underwater on halloween and we'd still set fire to the only dry parts for halloween no matter what.  :-)13:27
czajkowskithere is some london mayor thing on saturday morning followed by fireworks in the evening13:28
foobarryujjain: also go and see the poppies at tower of london13:28
ujjainpoppies are red?13:28
ujjain    a herbaceous plant with showy flowers, milky sap, and rounded seed capsules. Many poppies contain alkaloids and are a source of drugs such as morphine and codeine.13:29
ujjainah ok, I like morphine, thanks for the suggestion mate.13:29
MooDoohowdy all13:33
ujjaindo freelancers pay less tax or something? I dont understand this salary calculator for contractor, it says 6500 salary monthly would be over 5000 take home13:36
willcookeujjain, could be that it expects you to pay national insurance etc out of your pocket rather than paye13:38
ujjainahh, hmm.13:38
willcookedunno - just guessing13:38
willcookepopey used to contract I think13:38
foobarrycontractors pay corporate tax13:39
foobarrybecause they are a "company"13:40
diddledanfoobarry: nuh uh13:40
foobarryno? thats what the sith african guys were telling me13:40
diddledanfoobarry: only if they incorporate will they be liable for corporate tax13:40
foobarryall i know is they get around 3x the amount that permies get at our place, and stick around for 2 yrs13:41
diddledanfoobarry: plain self-employed just pay incometax and national insurance13:41
foobarryso essneitally making all the permies despise them13:41
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
MooDooooo lxd13:41
diddledanpermies get benefits in kind tho - pension scheme, holiday pay, employer's national insurance top-up13:41
diddledansick pay, also13:42
foobarrysure. but 3x the wage for less accountability?13:42
popeyit works both ways13:42
popeyI've worked (as a contractor) where the permies did naff all13:43
popeybeing a permie was a spectator sport13:43
foobarryi see that a lot13:43
TwistedLucidityfoobarry: Go contracting ing, earn 3x what you do now13:43
popeythey watch the contrators do the work13:43
foobarrymainly because they feel devalued by perceived unfair system13:43
popeybeen multiple places like that in fact13:43
popeyi dont think you can generalise like that13:43
foobarryif the contractors were used for short term contracts it would be ok13:43
foobarrybut its so hard to sack/eliminiate permies at our gaff then they just hired contractors for 2,3 years13:44
popeyand most contractors I know don't take home "3x" what permies do13:44
foobarryto deal with it13:44
foobarrythey should be fixed term rathr than daily rate13:44
foobarryour permies our paid less13:44
foobarrythan many13:44
foobarrybut the contractors are paid city contrator rates13:44
foobarryi've worked at many companies, this is the worst situation13:45
foobarryalthough in the bank some  contrators were on 250,00013:45
foobarryeven 15 yrs ago :S13:46
foobarryi don't mind contractors used for their intended purpose but abuse of the system leads to dissent and general malaise13:47
foobarryit will ultimately lead to outsourcing if the permies underperform13:47
ujjainah awesome, I only make 150k13:47
ujjaineverything you read on the internet is true13:47
ujjainnaaah, I wish I made more, but I guess IT people have good salaries.13:47
diddledan150k?!13:48
diddledanthis is pounds sterling, right?13:48
foobarryhe's joking13:48
foobarrymany IT people are on very average salaries13:49
foobarryhopefully they enjoy their jobs13:49
zmoylan-pispot the i.t. staff heavy drinking in every pub on a friday night13:49
foobarryoffice workers13:50
zmoylan-pithose too13:50
foobarrybut IT staff tend to dominate the bars in our building13:51
foobarryold guard mainly13:51
foobarry50+ greybeards13:51
zmoylan-piwalk up and ask a ms windows query... :-)13:51
foobarryplex app on tablet is nice13:51
foobarrysubtitles appear 1s too late :(13:52
foobarrymore annoying than i expected13:52
popeyhave you seen http://mediabrowser.tv/13:52
czajkowskipopey: willcooke https://www.apps-world.net/germany/13:52
foobarryno13:53
ujjaindiddledan, naaah, 150k not true, a little less than 2 times the average income in the UK13:53
popeyfree software plex-like13:53
ujjainpopey, how do you feel about contractor work in IT?13:53
ujjainif you don't mind me asking13:53
foobarryi wonder if it hand;es library generation any better than plex13:53
popeyI did it for 10 years13:53
popeyEnjoyed it.13:54
popeyBut it's stressful when you don't have a contract13:54
foobarryand it was SAP :S13:54
popeyand the rates can vary, so the whole "3x permie" is not as gold as it sounds13:54
ujjainah ok, I might do it some day. Because I don't do anything at my job, but Facebook/Reddit, and it's a bit boring.13:54
foobarry:-|13:54
ujjainreally? It sounnds like permies pay more or the same tax as contractors13:54
popeyi dont want to get into specifics of salaries/rates13:55
popeybut the rate I was paid dropped dramatically over the years13:55
popeywe had an influx of people from india flood the market13:55
popey(and other countries)13:55
popeywhich meant rates dropped significantly13:56
diddledanas soon as you start publicly talking numbers either you'll annoy people that earn less or get annoyed when someone tells you they earn more13:56
popeyheh13:56
popeyand the tax paid depends on the person13:56
christel... and on your accountant!13:56
christel;)13:56
popeysome people do all kinds of tricks to avoid paying tax13:56
popeyindeed13:56
AzelphurI have a very good friend that contracts, he has managed to keep his contract for like 10 years though, so he's golden13:56
popeyyeah, i know a guy who contracted for 10 years at 1k/day13:57
Azelphurso he is living the 3x permie dream I guess :)13:57
Azelphurdam haha13:57
popeydrove a beaten up vauxhall nova to work13:57
popeydidn't show off at all13:57
popeywore a tatty suit.13:57
popeythen one day decided to treat himself and turned up in a jaguar ☻13:57
zmoylan-piate sandwiches from home for lunch?13:58
Azelphurhehe nice13:58
popeyyes zmoylan-pi13:58
zmoylan-pievery penny counts13:58
popeyhe worked hard. harder than any of the permies we worked with.13:58
popeynot sure he worked "1k/day" hard13:58
popeybut that was the rate back then13:58
diddledandotcom bubble?13:58
foobarrythe 1k day guy i knew was 35 stone13:59
diddledanfoobarry: I need to eat more13:59
popeyY2K bubble13:59
AzelphurI'm really enjoying my current salary job, admittedly I'm not paid anywhere near what I'm worth (£18.7k) but I get nice bonuses, and I work from home, and I can work whenever I want, take days off whenever I want, they don't even log my hours, and they are buying me a really nice laptop :)13:59
christel.13:59
foobarrychuffed down leffe like it was water13:59
Azelphurso that's nice and all.13:59
christelperhaps he got paid by the lb? :)13:59
foobarryits imoprtant to do a job you enjoy13:59
Azelphuroh, and my salary is in BTC too \o/13:59
Azelphurfoobarry: indeed13:59
foobarryor if not, be compensated in salary14:00
popeyHmm, Hudl2 does this wierd thing where it gets charge full then flip flops between charging and not charging14:00
popeyrapidly like 5/sec14:00
popeyanyone seen that with android devices?14:00
Azelphurpopey: you got a hudl2?14:00
popeyyes14:00
Azelphurnice14:00
popeyyeah, it's an excellent device14:00
popeybetter than the nexus 714:00
Azelphurpopey: most phones bump charge in order to not destroy the battery14:00
Azelphurmaybe that's what you're seeing14:00
foobarrytrickle ?14:00
popeyno i mean, the light flashes on and off14:00
popeyconstantly14:00
popeylemme video14:00
Azelphurpopey: maybe it's a really bad implementation of bump charging :)14:00
popeyah, only does it when the screen is on14:01
Azelphurpopey: that's impressive though, my dad was asking me about one the other day, what's the battery life like?14:01
zmoylan-pimy asus 7" tablet charges for a few mins then doesn't for a few minutes.  i'd say 1 min on and 1 min off.  never timed it14:01
AzelphurI would have thought that x86 would drain the battery real fast14:01
popeynah14:01
popeyI watched 6 hours of HD films14:01
foobarrymediabrowser is mono .14:02
popeythen the battery died14:02
popeyyes, yes it is.14:02
foobarryhudl 2 is x86???14:02
Azelphurnice14:02
popeyyes14:02
Azelphurfoobarry: yup14:02
foobarrywow i didnt know14:02
popeyits really nicely built too14:02
popeyfeels nice in the hand14:02
popey1080p too14:02
popeyI have very few faults with it14:02
foobarrywhy did they do x8614:02
popeywhy not?14:02
popeynot the first14:03
awilkinsProbably got a nice bung from Intel to shift x86 mobile processors14:03
popeyprobably scored a good deal from the ODM14:03
ujjainthanks for sharing popey :)14:03
ujjaina hudl2 seems a bitb ig right?14:03
popeyyeah14:03
ujjainthe border seems big14:03
ujjainthe thing around the glass14:03
ujjainmy nexus 5 has a horrible battery.14:03
AzelphurI actually like the idea of the x8614:03
popeyyou need a border on a tablet, to hold the thing14:03
AzelphurI bet you could do some interesting hacking with it14:03
popeyyeah, that was my idea14:03
zmoylan-pii want a rasp pi tablet...14:03
popeywant to put ubuntu on it eventually14:03
popeyno, you don't ☻14:03
Azelphurpopey: let me know if you do that, I'm interested :)14:03
popeyunless you want an underpowered tablet with poor battery life and which is an inch thick?14:04
foobarrywonder if wife has stopped being sick yet14:04
popeyujjain: np14:04
Azelphurwith that kind of review, I think I'm going to replace my usual "cheap tablet" recommendation from Nexus 7 to the Tesco Hudl2 :)14:04
foobarryso much disease in this house14:04
popeytotally do so14:04
popeyI would buy one at the full price14:04
popeyended up paying 40 quid for my hudl214:04
zmoylan-piespecially if you have a tesco clubcard with lots of points14:04
foobarry?14:04
Azelphurpopey: what's the OS like, have they stayed to their mostly vanilla Android roots?14:04
foobarryi thouht it was 2x clubcard14:05
Azelphuror have they aggresively tesco-ised it14:05
popeyyeah, it's android and some tesco BS14:05
ujjainpopey, how? I have 5000 tesco points, I don't understand so well14:05
Azelphurpopey: is that just the little button in the bottom left?14:05
popeyi haven't actually touched any of the tesco apps14:05
popeyno, lemme screenshot for you14:05
Azelphurcool14:05
foobarry5000?14:05
Azelphurthen yea, different from the hudl 114:05
ujjainfoobarry, yes.14:05
foobarrythats 5000£ worth?14:05
ujjainI think 50 worth14:05
foobarryor 50.0014:05
foobarryah14:05
diddledan1 clubcard = 1p14:05
foobarryi have about that, gonna spend on RAC rescue14:06
diddledan1 nectar = 0.5p14:06
foobarrymy tesco credit card pays me well14:06
foobarrycos i  spend ~ 15k pa onm it14:06
ujjaini think maybe i'll buy avios14:06
ujjainhow much is £15k credit card spendingi n tesco points?14:06
ujjain£150 worth of tesco points seems so much?14:07
AzelphurI have like £20 on my clubcard now haha14:07
davmor2popey: blinkbox is apparently worth it I have no idea if it is or not, but stepson is using it instead of netflix and is loving it14:08
popeyi already have netflix14:08
popeyand amazon14:08
popeyso dont "need" blinkbox14:08
Azelphur"This is a stylish, desirable, and cheap full-featured Android tablet  that will satisfy the whole family. It completely outshines virtually  everything in the same price bracket. You'll be impressed at just how  much Tesco's Hudl 2 offers for your money."14:08
Azelphurwow, techradar likes it14:08
popeyThere you go, 7 screenshots http://imgur.com/SuwZgJD,3pc2ley,B4mUC63,yuTzdmN,cuTzAvI,PpvGUIo,jnUmk3h14:09
popeymostly stock, as it comes, with a few apps added here and there, but not much modified14:09
Azelphurah, yes that's just like the hudl 114:09
popeyI haven't clicked any of the tesco icons yet :14:09
Azelphurextra apps and the tesco button at the top right (or bottom left depending on orientation)14:09
popeysaw someone has rooted it and removed the tesco apps14:09
Azelphuryea, that's easy to do14:10
Azelphuryou should be able to just disable the tesco apps from settings though14:10
popeythey dont bother me14:10
ujjaini dont understand tesco, :( can I get the hudl2 for 5000 tesco points?14:10
popeyujjain: go to the website and find out?14:10
popeyjust add it to your basket and it will tell you14:10
ujjaini did both, still no idea,14:10
ujjainlet me try to upgrade my thinking level and see if I can figure it out14:11
Azelphurpopey: hehe duolingo trolled me the other day, https://www.dropbox.com/s/amddm5tln5szwsh/2014-11-05%2003.00.17.png?dl=0 note the timestamp on the notification14:11
ujjain:D14:11
ujjainI think you can only get the udle2 with clubcard vouchers, not with points14:12
ujjainI only have 2.5 in vouchers14:12
popeyhaha14:12
popeythere you go14:12
Azelphurujjain: aww14:12
popeyyeah, i used vouchers14:12
popeyso yeah, I'm very happy with it. I use it every day14:12
Azelphurpopey: juicessh, interesting, do you choose that over connectbot for any reasons? or is that just the one you settled on14:12
ujjainyeah,everybody seems positive about it14:13
popeyneve ruse it Azelphur14:13
Azelphurfair enough :)14:13
popeyinstalled because I had it on a previous device14:13
popeyI never need ssh that urgently ☻14:13
Azelphurpopey: I use connectbot and I have a tasker task that changes my keyboard to hackers keyboard when I use connectbot, really handy14:13
popeyscreenshots please?14:13
Azelphurof hackers keyboard / connectbot?14:13
popeyi am looking around at mobile terminal apps, want to improve ours14:14
popeyyeah, whatever you use to do terminal on a mobile device14:14
Azelphurah, I'll get you a bunch of screenshots14:14
popeythanks14:14
popeythe hudle needs a chunky charger14:14
popeyit wont charge off anything less than 2A14:15
popeyespecially if the screen is on14:15
popeyit wont even charge off my Anker battery pack14:15
ujjainwhat can I do with tesco points btw? I only see what I can do with vouchers, but vouchers are not points,14:16
ujjainmaybe it takes time before points before vouchers14:17
Azelphurpopey: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=gallery&t=f5d6e0eaf4f9b10665f1d64e83f6cba214:17
Azelphurone of the really useful things is it hijacks the volume control and uses it to set the terminal resolution14:18
popeywhat size device you doing that on?14:19
popeythose keys look small14:20
popeythanks for the screenshots.14:20
Azelphurpopey: Nexus 514:21
Azelphurand yea, they are small, hackers keyboard is a little fiddly but with SSH it's more beneficial to have a full keyboard and have it be a tad fiddley.14:22
foobarrypoints are converted to vouchers every 3 months14:22
Azelphurinteresting14:22
foobarrywhen u spend £1 on a tesco credit card at any retails u get points14:24
foobarryand more pts at tesco ofc14:24
foobarryso buying my annual season ticket gives me 1000 pts instantly14:24
AzelphurI have 42 points and £21 in vouchers \o/14:24
Azelphurfoobarry: I think I heard something about vouchers counting for 2x against the hudls or something?14:25
foobarrythey also send me 750 pts occasionally to reatin me as customer, which is the only company i know who actively retain you14:25
foobarryAzelphur: yes14:25
foobarryclubcard boost14:25
Azelphurso I could get a hudl 2 for £87?14:25
Azelphurthat's actually pretty cool14:26
foobarryWith the Hudl2 you also get £60 of vouchers including:14:26
foobarry• £25 free blinkbox credit to spend on movies, books and music14:26
foobarryetc14:26
ujjainahhh thanks foobarry, now I understand.14:27
foobarryquidco also give 1.5% on tesco direct purchases14:28
Azelphurindeed14:28
ujjaingood stuff.14:28
ujjainUK supermarkets are very expensive, but at least you guys have nice rewards.14:28
ujjainI used to pay £6.50 for 24x330ml Heineken.14:28
ujjainI bought for 25 pound tesco stuff14:28
Azelphurfoobarry: oO14:28
ujjain5 pound cashback and 5 pound discount for first time customer14:28
ujjainwas pretty good, and you get some bonus points automatically.14:28
ujjain Tesco Grocery New Customer Purchase  http://www.topcashback.co.uk/tesco/14:28
ujjain5.2514:29
foobarryHudl 214:29
foobarryExclusive Offer!14:29
foobarryEnds In 2 Days14:29
foobarry2.62%14:29
ujjainyahoo14:30
Azelphur"Where the Nexus 7 really outshines the Hudl 2 is battery life. The Hudl 2  achieved a time of just 6hrs 51mins in our looping video test; the  Nexus 7 achieved 11hrs 48mins. The Hudl 2 also doesn't last well on  standby."14:31
Azelphurseems the Nexus 7 is better on the battery at least14:31
Azelphurbut in benchmarks the hudl wins14:31
foobarryarm vs x8614:33
Azelphurindeed14:33
AzelphurI think the pcpro review has a nexus 7 bias though14:33
popeynot just that14:33
popeybigger screen14:33
popeywhat res is the nexus 7?14:34
Azelphurpopey: same res screen as the nexus 7 (1920x1200)14:34
popeyinteresting14:34
foobarryroof tiles going on the extension14:34
popeyI'd agree with the 6 hours film playback14:34
foobarryautumn has been good to my builders14:34
popeygiven I was on an 8 hour flight14:34
popeyand it died before we landed14:34
Azelphurhowever the review mentions that the Hudl 2 uses dynamic contrast, while the Nexus 7 doesn't14:34
foobarrylast time i was on a flight, tablets didn't exist14:35
foobarrynor kindles..14:35
popeyi proably have a different tablet every time i fly14:39
czajkowskipopey: see over there ----->14:41
popey                                                           what?14:41
DJonesAzelphur: My wife replaced her N7 with a Hudl2, she's not had any complaints about battery life, she's said its as good as the N7 and she uses it quite a lot for streaming video (netflix/Skygo)14:46
foobarrymy daughter keeps appearing holding stock cubes14:46
foobarryat least i know what she wants for xmas14:46
foobarrymade some progress on my diorama. needs colour correction though http://i.imgur.com/alTouEg.jpg14:51
popeywhat do you do with them when they're finished?14:51
foobarryi have 2 ikea glass display cabinets14:52
foobarryusually i model in 1:72 so they can fit a lot14:52
foobarryexcept the lancaster, which will go on son's ceiling14:52
foobarryin true airfix style14:52
foobarrythe dio will have a tank on the left, hence tracks14:53
foobarryand puddles, which i need to go to a nail bar for14:53
foobarryand buy acrylic gel :S14:53
AzelphurDJones: nice14:58
mappswhat a useless airport..cant go anywhere but UK from Gibralar airport basically15:06
mapps;[15:06
MooDoowell i hope the rain stops :(15:06
mapps:(15:06
MooDoofireworks tonight15:21
davmor2MooDoo: take a brolly15:22
MooDoodavmor2: supposed to stop in a few hours, fingers crossed15:22
MooDoodavmor2: was it you who were telling me about lxd?  or was that lxc?15:22
davmor2MooDoo: It's England, It's a big event weekend, It's going to rain :D15:23
MooDoo:D15:23
davmor2MooDoo: I told you to try LXC ages ago15:23
davmor2MooDoo: LXD is just the next progression15:23
MooDooyeah couldn't remember, just been watching lxd stuff15:23
diddledanlxd?15:25
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
MooDoosecure container hypervisor deamon15:26
davmor2diddledan: lxc with knobs on15:26
diddledanhow do I get my own knobs?15:27
MooDoosudo apt-get install knobs15:28
davmor2diddledan: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/lxd15:28
Laneywhy did they make it lex-dee when lxc is lxc? :(15:29
davmor2diddledan: also just try opening and door in your home with your own Knobs :P15:29
Laneyoh, they claim it's lex-c later on15:29
davmor2Laney: we have been saying it wrong for years and apparently LXD sounds like a drug :D15:29
Laneylsd?15:30
davmor2Laney: see sabdfls video on the subject15:31
Laneywell, good luck ;-)15:32
ujjainis feeling bad while doing nothing and having to do nothing at work weird?15:39
MooDooujjain: nope not at all, same here, but I get to leave in 5 mins15:43
ujjainmeh, this is no life, every day nothing, so empty, I used to be ok with it, but it's too much free time15:44
MooDoothen do something else in your down time, study for an exam or something?15:44
ujjainyeah, I guess I should think about more useful things to do15:45
foobarryujjain: what's yr area of expertise?15:50
ujjainlinux sysadmin15:50
foobarrylearn openstack?15:54
foobarrythere's no end of stuff to learn with linux15:54
foobarrydocker?15:54
foobarryget up to speed on latest tech for when you do next job15:55
foobarrydone your RHSCA?15:55
ujjainyeah, I spend 40 hours a week on that stuff15:55
ujjainyeah, I have my RHCE training+exam in 3 weeks15:55
ujjainbut after a while, it becomes too much time, but I think I'll apply for a different position within the company or maybe contract work in future15:55
foobarrythats why i make model kits out of hours15:56
foobarrybecause tv is junk and my brain is tired but i want to be creative and relax15:57
ujjainyeah, I need to do something creative too, osmething that makes me feel good, a project that I'd have passion for. I spent time with docke,r but at one moment you don't have a real goal in mind.16:01
foobarryi bet the monitoring in your place isn't up to scratch16:02
foobarrylook into adagios, logstash, graphite, etc16:03
foobarrygreat monitoring makes you look awesome16:03
foobarrymonitor everything and blow the bosses minds16:03
ujjainif I make a change, 30.000 servers will be impacted16:04
ujjainI was working on that, but everything happens in the US, we are just night shift.16:04
ujjainthey just want us to do repairs in the 6 hours the US sleeps16:04
ujjainI miss working with 1500 servers and doing everything in a smaller Linux team, you can do much that way.16:05
ujjainbut thanks for thinking along, I think I should join a different team, other teams should be better16:09
foobarrysounds like you are stuck in ops world16:37
foobarryops guys cannot change stuff , or solve problems in interesting ways because the role is locked down16:38
ujjainyeah true, I am foobarry16:40
ujjainbut support is not much better either16:40
ujjainI guess maybe devops would be nice16:40
foobarryhttp://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/17:42
foobarryhttp://games.slashdot.org/story/14/11/07/1237236/major-performance-improvement-discovered-for-intels-gpu-linux-driver17:55
foobarrymaybe i can run that with my 20% faster kernel promised a year or so back18:01
popeyeh18:01
popey*heh18:01
zmoylan-piand run it on a quantum computer powered by your mr. fusion?18:03
diddledanfoobarry: that 20% faster kernel - do I know about that?18:04
* diddledan needs linkbait18:04
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
foobarryolde promise we never got18:06
zmoylan-piwhere to start...18:06
foobarrywas from some 100 line change18:06
zmoylan-pibubble memory was the first i remember from 80s18:06
zmoylan-piwas going to change everything!!!!18:06
diddledanI think I recall everyone saying that desktops were about to get awesome speed boosts, if that's the same issue. what actually happened to make it not arrive?18:07
popeyYou'll Never Believe What This 100 Line Patch Will Do To Your System!!!!18:07
diddledanIIRC it was an interrupt/timing thing18:07
foobarryhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/13562/how-do-we-get-this-magic-performance-boosting-200-line-patch18:08
Azelphurwait, when did this become buzzfeed18:08
zmoylan-piwindows for pen was going to change everything in early 90s.  the fud killed go unfortunately18:08
foobarryyou wont believe what happened next18:08
foobarryno speed up18:09
popeywow, 4 years ago18:09
zmoylan-piyou shouldn't antropomorphise penguins.  they hate it when you do that :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B124WfOIYAEftmw.jpg:large18:10
diddledanlol18:11
foobarrywhat happpened to the url bot in here?18:12
diddledanI was told to shut it down18:12
foobarryheh18:12
foobarryby non irssi users18:12
zmoylan-pisomeone pointed it at itself and it's off url gazing :-)18:12
MyrttiI think I just asked if you had asked permission for it and pointed out that it might be a good idea to turn it off until you do get a permission.18:13
popeywell, actually nobody said remove it18:14
popeyexactly18:14
Myrttiand I am greatly offended by your allegation that I'm not an irssi user ;____;18:14
Myrtti*snif*18:14
* zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti an ascii hankie18:15
diddledanI didn't get around to that bit18:15
Myrttitalking of irssi18:15
Myrttiwoo new irssi from few weeks back18:16
MyrttiI still should dig some time to finish the theme I wrote for it18:16
foobarryi updated it too. dont remember if there was a reason to so do18:16
Myrttinext update might make sasl inbuilt18:16
Myrttibah. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=lg_g_watch_r_black18:18
zmoylan-pigo on holidays to a country it is available?18:19
zmoylan-pior get a relative in a country where it is for sale to order and ship it to you?18:23
Myrttithat's all fine and dandy, but someone (not me) ordered themselves a Moto360 yesterday from expansys.18:24
zmoylan-piah, now it becomes clear18:24
zmoylan-picancel expansys order?18:24
zmoylan-piif it hasn't shipped already18:24
Myrttihe claims that he still prefers the Moto360. Who knows.18:26
MyrttiMen.18:26
Myrttipah.18:26
* zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti a cattle prod to help extract better answers18:26
ali1234diddledan: the 100 line patch arrived, it's enabled by default18:27
Myrttitime to go boil some pasta, methinks.18:27
Myrttithen to pub18:27
christeli am so rock and roll that i just returned from the pub!18:30
* brobostigon went to the pub last night, for pub quiz.18:30
zmoylan-piand did you use google to look up answers?18:31
brobostigonno.18:31
zmoylan-pibing?18:31
brobostigonno.18:31
brobostigonno assistance of any kind, and me and my gf coming last again, proves it.18:32
zmoylan-piyou need a better phone :-)18:32
brobostigonhaha18:33
zmoylan-pior ask if amazon echo can be a team mate :-p18:33
brobostigonor if google music can help with the music questions.18:34
zmoylan-pii use soundhound for that18:38
brobostigon:)18:44
foobarrythe pub quiz is dead, it needs to evolve into non googleable questions18:50
brobostigonlike dingbats?18:51
zmoylan-piwhat is the nearest chinese restaurant to this pub sort of question18:54
brobostigonlol18:55
zmoylan-piwhat colour is the wall outside the pub?18:56
popeythere is probably a market in making questions which aren't googleable18:57
zmoylan-pithe same list of questions would generate different answers in different locations18:57
popeyyou could do ones that need lateral thinking18:58
zmoylan-pibut you'd need a few 1000 questions to draw a random list from18:58
popeynot general knowledge18:58
popeylike Riddling does18:58
ali1234i played riddling the other day18:58
ali1234i got to some level and i think that the questions are out of date18:58
ali1234because i can't find the answer18:58
ali1234i think it's US cities by population, and i think the order has changed18:59
popeyaq gave a fun talk at oggcamp about riddling18:59
ali1234level 24 if anyone has the answers19:00
foobarryare oggcamp talks online?19:24
foobarry(2014)19:24
popeysome19:45
foobarry"men have hobbies and females don't understand them"..19:53
foobarrydetectorists has bene my favourite tv of the year19:54
popeyyes20:01
popeysame here20:01
popeywatched 3 eps back to back20:01
daftykinshttps://www.humblebundle.com/store - Metro 2033 free20:02
MartijnVdSbanished cheap20:26
MartijnVdSwhat's metro 203320:26
daftykinssome dark corridor post apocalyptic Russian type shooter thing20:30
daftykinsi think it's based on a book series20:30
MooDooBANG!!!!!!!20:38
brobostigonBOOM20:39
MooDoosorry been to a fireworks party at my sisters :D20:39
daftykinshah20:39
daftykinson Wednesday night it took me ages to work out why there were fireworks going off :(20:39
daftykinsi was that aware of the date20:39
* brobostigon has a fireworks party to go to tmrw, with the gf.20:40
MooDoo:)20:40
brobostigonhopefully the weather will cooperate, its forecasting rain most of tmrw afternoon/evening20:41
MooDooglad it stopped tonight.20:41
daftykinsmmm definitely more chilly of late now20:41
brobostigonagreed.20:42
Azelphurhttp://youtu.be/GafOuTf5ntQ ...had to be done.22:07
daftykinsXD22:08
daftykinsthese Amazon FireTVs are really becoming tough to resist22:13
daftykinsas an XBMC type contraption22:13
zmoylan-pii'd probably need a tv first so it's not so hard...22:20
daftykinsnot got HDMI input on your screens?22:21
daftykinsassuming you run a desktop22:21
zmoylan-pivga all the way, though my 'best' screen also does scart :-)22:21
zmoylan-pii acquired it when i needed a screen to setup up my pi22:22
daftykinseww VGA22:23
zmoylan-piand if i could have found one of the antique cga/av crts my company used to sell i'd have used it in a heartbeat :-)22:24
ali1234recommend dell U2410, it has composite video and it can just about manage PAL/NTSC on the VGA port22:29
ali1234interlaced PAL looks a bit weird22:29
ali1234NTSC is okay though22:29
zmoylan-pithere's nothing like a warm crt in winter with a cat sleeping on top22:30
ali1234the dell gets plenty hot too22:32
daftykinsthere's nothing good about CRTs :(22:34
Azelphurdaftykins: my XBMC type contraption is a chromebox reflashed with openelec.22:35
daftykinsAzelphur: yarr, did it beat £65? :>22:36
Azelphurnope22:37
Azelphurwas £16022:37
daftykinsyeah i already have my ion1 :(22:37
daftykinsi just like the idea of a more silent device22:37
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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