[01:02] <diddledan> http://research.dyn.com/2014/11/chinese-routing-errors-redirect-russian-traffic/
[01:02] <diddledan> fun
[01:02] <diddledan> from russia to russia.. via shanghai
[01:02] <daftykins> \o/
[01:06] <daftykins> diddledan: can't decide if the banner pic on that whitchurch link suggests children are happily running around youthfully and excitedly, or whether there's some kind of native impending doom they suffer from
[01:07] <diddledan> haha, I see what you mean
[01:10] <diddledan> ok, so virgin just emailed me my account number and "area reference" - I go to the sign up for ebilling page and it tells me the account number doesn't exist
[01:10] <diddledan> maybe I'm jumping the gun
[01:11] <daftykins> does seem a bit odd
[01:11] <daftykins> these providers online systems do seem to require a change of wind direction prior to working though
[01:39] <shauno> did dan fix the googles?
[01:41] <daftykins> i'm not sure
[01:41]  * daftykins pokes diddledan with a virgin media
[01:41] <diddledan> I fixed it by turning on ipv6 tunnel :-p
[01:42] <diddledan> more a workaround than a fix
[01:42] <shauno> heh
[01:44] <daftykins> i had to get that Austrian guy to edit the windows hosts file to put his own domain as the LAN IP of his webserver yesterday, to get around the page not properly loading from inside his network
[01:44] <daftykins> very odd situation
[01:48] <shauno> I think I've seen that before, when they're port-forwarding inwards
[01:48] <daftykins> yep
[01:49] <daftykins> when i've seen it though, they typically don't get anything at all
[01:49] <daftykins> he gets the text and sometimes images of his website, but it doesn't display correctly across the main browsers
[01:49] <shauno> like traffic that's destined to their own IP misses a step when it goes from lan-wan, and doesn't go via the translation table
[01:49] <shauno> oh weird
[01:49] <daftykins> i tried SSH'ing in and opening a SOCKS proxy, same issue
[01:49] <daftykins> DNS queries for his domain are correct, but oddly entering that into the browser insta-fails
[01:50] <daftykins> i think it said connection reset 0o
[01:50] <daftykins> i'd have packet sniffed the session maybe to see what was going on, but i decided to cheat with the hosts workaround
[01:50] <shauno> does he see requests for the missing parts showing up on his server?
[01:50] <daftykins> ooh that'd be a good shout
[01:51] <daftykins> i think the images loaded only the times immediately after i'd correctly loaded the site from outside (e.g. from my home connection)
[01:51] <daftykins> so they could've been cached
[01:57] <shauno> I guess that's where I'd look.  look in the console / inspector on the browser, see if it's refusing things for cross-domain policies.  and then see what requests show up on the webserver, and if it logs any reason to refuse them
[01:57] <shauno> that should narrow down what's eating stuff where
[01:57] <daftykins> :) ty sir, good ideas
[01:58] <daftykins> it started with his ISP's new router though, i suspect funky play there
[01:58] <shauno> (or C; back away slowly, it's working)
[01:59] <daftykins> yeah my dirty hack is pretty reliable ;D it's always tempting to want to understand these things more deeply though
[02:00] <shauno> sometimes :)  sometimes it's better for your sanity if you don't ..
[02:01] <daftykins> :D
[02:01] <daftykins> i hadn't spoken to that guy since my accident so it ended up being something like a 4hr chat to catch up on things
[02:01] <shauno> so, random story that may or may not have just happened at work this week
[02:02] <daftykins> ooh?
[02:02] <shauno> "product" now has an ios app, because, yaknow, managers feel like they're missing something if they don't have "an app" under their belt
[02:02] <daftykins> absolutely!
[02:02] <shauno> last friday, they sent a mailshot out to every current customer letting them know this
[02:03] <shauno> monday, the release that supports the app hits the backend
[02:03] <shauno> monday, the customers start calling ...
[02:03] <daftykins> :S
[02:03] <daftykins> fruity customers? :D
[02:03] <shauno> so, I found a nifty way of eating this stuff is to let my laptop forward wifi to lan, so I can capture my own phone :)
[02:04] <shauno> and the hostname looks really rather suspect.  so I shoot an email off to the developers asking why it's still trying to hit the stage servers
[02:04] <daftykins> beats an ARP spoof!
[02:05] <diddledan> haha
[02:05] <shauno> they inform me this is by design, and it'll be re-pointed in the release version next month
[02:05] <daftykins> lol
[02:05] <diddledan> o_O
[02:05] <daftykins> "but but, it's LIVE TODAY!"
[02:05] <shauno> right :)
[02:05] <daftykins> *facepalm*
[02:06] <shauno> I really, really want to know how development & management got that far out of sync
[02:06] <daftykins> certainly speaks of zero quality assurance doesn't it :(
[02:06] <daftykins> not a single test in the book
[02:07] <shauno> oh that much they do seem to be doing.  and still are
[02:08] <daftykins> mmm just let the horse out of the stable a bit early
[02:08] <shauno> it seems to just be a really, really screwed up release process.  they put it in the store because it's easier to push to the relevant parties that way
[02:08] <daftykins> lol
[02:08] <shauno> instead of using 'testflight', or getting everyone to register their phones, or something sensible
[02:10] <shauno> 'comedy of errors' is turning into a theme lately though :/
[02:11] <shauno> I found an api that returns <ok>API_ERROR</ok>.  and the consumer tests for <ok> and decides it's, well, okay.  it doesn't look for a value within it.
[02:12] <daftykins> :D
[02:14] <shauno> so <ok/> and <ok>no, really not okay</ok> have exactly the same meaning
[02:15] <shauno> to backtrack, I found a way to disable ssl on our products.  which turned into a goldmine for debug, because you can actually see what's failing now
[02:15] <daftykins> didn't backtrack turn into kali?
[02:16] <shauno> I mean in the literal sense :)
[02:16] <daftykins> ah :D
[02:16] <shauno> so I've spent a whole lot of time over the last 2 weeks, pouring over captures for anything we never managed to solve the first time around
[02:17] <shauno> it's roughly 50/50 between "aha, that's what's wrong!"  and "what .. who .. why ..  wait, who wrote this?"
[02:18] <daftykins> hehe, resisting the urge to head-desk?
[02:19] <shauno> but some of the stuff I've found is hilarious.  like an edge-case that fails if the endpoint doesn't have a phonenumber.  because 15 years ago, this whole mess ran over dialup. and some components still haven't been told.
[02:19] <daftykins> oh my word O_O
[02:23] <shauno> I miss our last manager.  he was really good at hiding stuff
[02:24] <daftykins> he'd cover up the above? :>
[02:24] <shauno> he'd been with it from the start, so he knew all the quirks
[02:25] <shauno> the new guy doesn't know, doesn't want to, and starting putting us in touch with the devs directly
[02:25] <shauno> and all innocence was lost
[02:25] <daftykins> would a better manager take your input and feed it back to them to fix directly?
[02:26] <shauno> I'm actually not sure
[02:26] <shauno> I'm just left feeling like .. the end of the wizard of oz.  except they pull back the curtain and don't find a wizard, don't find an old man pretending to be a wizard
[02:27] <shauno> but find 20 squirrels frantically pressing buttons to see what happens
[02:28] <daftykins> :D
[02:29] <daftykins> i've been pretty disillusioned by workplaces since finishing education, that everywhere seems to be run by a batch of said squirrels
[02:30] <shauno> this is the first place I've worked that has more than 5 employees
[02:30] <daftykins> :O
[02:30] <daftykins> how very niche of you! :)
[02:31] <shauno> now I'm one of 170,000.  "completely different" would be an understatement
[02:32] <shauno> it's left me very impressed that centipedes can actually walk
[02:33] <shauno> instead of having one leg at the front trying to steer, 3 at the back trying to push the whole thing forward, and the rest all holding meetings about .. something
[02:34] <daftykins> :D
[02:34] <daftykins> or much falling over
[02:37] <shauno> anyway.  I'm gonna quit ranting and go to bed.  I have to be early tomorrow because someone scheduled me for a conf call in the wrong timezone :/
[02:38] <shauno> I get to teach an electrician how to use tcpdump.  at 7am.  it's gonna rock.
[02:41] <daftykins> WAT
[02:41] <daftykins> electrician :(
[02:41] <daftykins> good luck with that sir o/
[02:41] <shauno> it's actually a semi-sensible solution
[02:42] <shauno> very paranoid customer who has a vetted list of externals.  so the plan is to find the most obedient person on that list, rather than try to get someone new added
[02:43] <daftykins> what to do? :D
[02:44] <shauno> well, pcaps :)
[02:45] <shauno> (this actually works.  many years of doing tech support for mum pays off.  if you can talk your mother through it, you're set)
[02:46] <daftykins> hahaha
[02:46] <shauno> seriously.  my mother has a good grasp of what ports are, and what "well known ports" are.  it's amazing
[02:48] <shauno> I can't remember why it came up, but I explained about phone numbers, and switchboard extensions, and being able to ask for 'accounting' instead of a number.  and it seems it stuck
[02:48] <shauno> anyway.  'night.
[02:48] <daftykins> nn sir :)
[09:19] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:22] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:39] <foobarry> these guys who are selling new books cheaper than amazon are sending from the states
[09:40] <foobarry> how can they send for £2.80 postage?
[09:40] <zmoylan-pi> water proof books with cover wedged open as a sail
[09:41] <foobarry> heh
[09:42] <foobarry> rip off britain
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> if you think uk is bad, irish prices are uk prices converted to euro with a markup on top
[09:44] <foobarry> really need to stop looking at the news page
[09:44] <foobarry> grim and depressing
[09:44] <foobarry> probably worst example of that is today
[09:44] <zmoylan-pi> the number of days when you can look at the news and be happy is 0
[09:45] <foobarry> hhe
[09:45] <foobarry> tech news is different
[09:45] <zmoylan-pi> the number of days when you can look at the tech news and be happy is > 0
[09:45] <foobarry> g+  makes me happyish
[09:45] <zmoylan-pi> but not by much
[09:45] <foobarry> except whent he verge posts i-news
[09:45] <zmoylan-pi> g+ made me completely switch off google
[09:46] <foobarry> what good tech news sites do you read on g+?
[09:46] <foobarry> i had to turn engadget back on about verge annoyred me
[09:46] <ali1234> the verge is nearly as bad as the register
[09:47] <foobarry> they don't hide their fanboyism but their non apple stories are quite interesting
[09:47] <foobarry> not that i read the articles, the headlines are sufficient
[09:47] <foobarry> i rely on cooleagues to tell me any useful register stories
[09:47] <foobarry> i can't stand them
[09:47] <foobarry> but they have useful stuff e.g. the vmware CBT issue
[09:48] <zmoylan-pi> i just flip through the headlines in rss for a number of tech sites.
[09:48] <ali1234> i just look at reddit
[09:48] <foobarry> i quit reddit due to borderline addiction and time sink
[09:48] <zmoylan-pi> i quit reddit due to hivemind
[09:49] <foobarry> oh yes, never any default subs
[09:49] <foobarry> i learned that after a week
[09:49] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't matter how right you are, if you don't agree with the concensus you'll be downvoted to obilivion
[09:50] <zmoylan-pi> only moderation system i've ever seen work _was_ slashdots as you had to earn right to upvote/downvote
[09:51] <foobarry> once due to lack of sleep and fatigue i mentioned the breastapo in a parenting subreddit
[09:51] <ali1234> who cares though?
[09:51] <ali1234> downvoting doesn't do much on reddit
[09:52] <foobarry> incurred the wrath of a million breastfeeding nazis
[09:52] <ali1234> it's not like slashdot where it is impossible to see anything modded down
[09:52] <zmoylan-pi> an individual downvote, no.  a mass downvote by a bot...
[09:52] <foobarry> reddit has a option to not show downvoted entries
[09:53] <zmoylan-pi> on slashdot you're just modded troll, wrong, offtopic.  no need to have -1000 votes
[09:53] <ali1234> yes, and the groupthink on slashdot is much much worse
[09:53] <zmoylan-pi> at least you where, now it's been bought and changed
[09:54] <ali1234> slashdot is basically now exactly like reddit, except with only about 50 users
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> no on slashdot 2 opposing opinions could be voted insightful.  it's the way it should be
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> but i am talking past tense.  the last year has been a sad one for slashdot users
[09:54] <ali1234> slashdot loves opinions. post facts and you're at -1 and nobody ever sees it
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> not in my experience
[09:56] <ali1234> just look at this: http://ask.slashdot.org/story/14/10/18/1527231/ask-slashdot-stop-pulseaudio-from-changing-sound-settings
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> from this year...
[09:56] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:58] <ali1234> the funniest part is it turned out OP just hadn't bothered updating his system...
[09:59] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, slashdot had a mass exodous to soylentnews earlier this year, soylent feels a lot like slashdot back in 99
[09:59]  * zmoylan-pi waves cane in the air at whippersnappers :-)
[09:59] <popey> never heard of soylentnews
[09:59] <ali1234> i have
[10:00] <ali1234> imagine slashdot except most articles have less than 10 comments
[10:00] <popey> right
[10:00] <zmoylan-pi> but comments are good again
[10:00] <popey> FSVO Good
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: There are no problems with PulseAudio. Sounds on Linux is a solved problem. Linus said so. :-P
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> true but i prefer it more and more over the alternatives
[10:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Hug a Bear Day! :-D
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> sound is less difficult, wifi is where the frustration is at
[10:02] <TwistedLucidity> I thought the volume change was a feature and not a bug. Allows for different volume setting headphones vs speakers so you don't implode your ear drums.
[10:03] <ali1234> TwistedLucidity: it is a feature. a feature that didn't work properly until recently due to a bug in ALSA introduced by lennart and found by me
[10:03] <ali1234> it's supposed to remember the volume levels for each device and reload them when you plug it in
[10:03] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Sweet. I must have been lucky with updates as it passed me by
[10:03] <ali1234> what it does instead is reset all devices to default volume whenever anything is plugged in
[10:04] <TwistedLucidity> What grates my carrot is the inability to correctly balance the speakers in Pulse.
[10:04] <ali1234> this is fixed in debian unstable anyway, OP just didn't update
[10:04] <ali1234> but the point is I had to track down his email and talk to him directly to sort it out, because slashdot moderation is a mess
[10:05] <TwistedLucidity> Well...if they'd gone to the PA bugtracker (or Launchpad or...) it would have been a better start.
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> they broke it and replaced it with a reddit knockoff after switching to new 'beta' system
[10:05] <ali1234> the bug isn't on the PA bug tracker
[10:06] <ali1234> and DBTS is awful - impossible to search or browse it
[10:06] <ali1234> the only bug tracker worse than bugzilla
[10:07] <zmoylan-pi> sounds like a... bug :-p
[10:07] <ali1234> DBTS is the only reason I don't use debian
[10:07] <TwistedLucidity> You haven't seen the IBM p.o.s. I have to suffer
[10:07] <zmoylan-pi> if it's ibm, pos is implied
[10:09] <popey> aaaaagh
[10:09]  * davmor2 bear hugs JamesTait 
[10:09] <popey> firefox so slow
[10:09] <JamesTait> That's the spirit, davmor2. :)
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> qupzilla is a lite browser, bit crashy but nippy
[10:09] <popey> only 11 tabs open
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> but for how long and on what sites?
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> tweetdeck sucks ram the longer it is run
[10:11] <davmor2> popey: use the ubuntu-browser
[10:12] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Sure it's FF and not just some site open in FF? There is a lot of dodgy JS out there....
[10:13] <zmoylan-pi> i find killing the browser and restarting it once twice a day speeds things up a fair bit
[10:13] <zmoylan-pi> sad but true
[10:16] <TwistedLucidity> FF does seem to be a big heavy, but I normally run it with 15+ tabs open; to be expected I guess. I would use another browser, but haven't found one as good.
[10:17] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:18] <bigcalm> Text on my desktop has shrunk. Anybody know how to fix this? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml58sgxt2qglke1/tiny_text.png?dl=0
[10:18] <davmor2> popey: see if the googletalk is still running if it is kill that
[10:20] <popey> TwistedLucidity: chromium doesn't slow down like this with the same sites
[10:20] <popey> so while there may be "crappy js" out there, my point remains that ff feels slower than other browsers
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> Add-ons also cause issues.
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> But if Chromium works better...
[10:21] <popey> yes, vague hand-wavy things are true, but I want to find the specifics ☹
[10:21] <ali1234> what do you mean "specifics"?
[10:21] <popey> well, on chromium with "every tab is a process" I can see which one is eating the cpu
[10:21] <popey> all I can see here is one big ff process
[10:22] <popey> so no way of knowing which tab it is, or which extension it is
[10:22] <ali1234> if you go to about:memory you can see memory use per tab... it's a good bet that the one using 4GB is also using the CPU
[10:22] <davmor2> popey: isn't there  adebug mode for firefox
[10:22] <popey> about:memory is somewhat obtuse to read, but okay
[10:23] <popey> none are using a lot of RAM
[10:23] <popey> total footprint of ff is 1.6GB
[10:26] <popey> I'm not doing anything and its using 50% cpu and typing in the browser is painful
[10:27] <davmor2> popey: FF for me is like 8% what do you do to it :)
[10:28] <popey> yes, of course, my fault, sorry.
[10:28] <popey> killed the google talk plugin
[10:28] <popey> still 30-40%
[10:28] <popey>  5066 alan      20   0 2640424 1.137g 108128 S  70.8  7.3 299:27.85 firefox
[10:29] <ali1234> it's normally around 30% for me
[10:30] <davmor2> popey: do you have google plus open
[10:31] <davmor2> popey: I just discovered in FF with gplus, if you have a screen full of text about 10% screen with 2 gifs 53%
[10:32] <ali1234> yet another example of why anything other that native processes on the CPU is a bad idea in general
[10:32] <zmoylan-pi> some sort of g+ client perhaps... :-)
[10:33] <ali1234> offloading to the GPU has the same problem: namely, no processes management
[10:34] <davmor2> popey:  6557 davmor2   20   0 2198868 0.994g  89580 S   6.6 13.0   3:20.32 firefox  on text  6557 davmor2   20   0 2200088 0.988g  89580 R  54.1 12.9   3:31.25 firefox     on 2 gifs
[10:39] <davmor2> popey: I blame imgurl close that tab ;)
[10:52] <vad3rman1156> what's the best network for an android tablet for calls, texts and Internet? please do not say giffgaff!
[10:54] <zmoylan-pi> define best, cheap, fast?
[10:54] <vad3rman1156> huh?
[10:54] <vad3rman1156> like best for signal etc
[10:55] <zmoylan-pi> ah, reliable, surely that would depend on what part of uk you live in?
[10:55] <vad3rman1156> birmingham
[11:02]  * popey says giffgaff
[11:04]  * vad3rman1156 slaps popey 
[11:04] <davmor2> vad3rman1156: well begin as you can get most sim cards either free or for a pound from you local corner shop I suggest go grab some find the one with the best signal and then top that one up :)
[11:04] <davmor2> free from provider
[11:05] <vad3rman1156> well I had a giffgaff I topped up but due to bad signal my tab was dying QUICK!
[11:05]  * zmoylan-pi seems to remember apps on android way back that showed what 2g/3g towers where nearby and what signal strenght they where...
[11:06] <vad3rman1156> < new to android :P
[11:07] <davmor2> vad3rman1156: Network Signal Info
[11:07] <zmoylan-pi> this was on my first android device a htc hero which shipped with donut iirc
[11:07] <vad3rman1156> yeah better battery stats kept saying no or unknown signal.
[11:08] <vad3rman1156> thinking about it, my phone is on giffgaff and that only gets 3 hours screen on....giffgaff sucks!
[12:11]  * czajkowski tickles davmor2 hello sunshine! 
[12:11] <davmor2> czajkowski: hello
[12:39] <willcooke> ali1234, hi!  Do you have a circuit diagram for your 433 remote control sockets project?  From the photo on G+ it looks like "just plug it in" and there any other components on the top side of the Minimus board?
[12:40] <willcooke> s/and there/are there
[12:40] <ali1234> nope, it is just the two boards directly connected together
[12:40] <willcooke> ali1234, nice! thanks
[12:40] <willcooke> ali1234, how long is your antenna if you don't mind me asking? ;)
[12:40] <ali1234> as long as you see in the picture. about 1 inch
[12:40] <willcooke> thanks
[12:41] <ali1234> the radio board only has four pins, power, gnd, data, antenna
[12:41] <ali1234> power and data are connected directly to GPIO lines so that it can be turned off when not in use
[12:41] <ali1234> gnd is gnd and antenna is any piece of wire
[12:42] <Azelphur> whelp, that's my day ruined. http://i.imgur.com/I50wEj1.jpg xD
[12:42] <willcooke> ali1234, brilliant!  I'm going to give it a go, I'll let you know how I get on.  Thanks for the software too :)
[12:42] <Azelphur> no fancy home automation lights for me just yet.
[12:43] <ali1234> willcooke: did you find somewhere that sells minimus boards and isn't incredibly dodgy?
[12:43] <ali1234> they are, in my opinion, the best AVR dev board anyone has ever made
[12:44] <ali1234> but unfortunately they were designed for illegal purposes, so nobody legit sells them
[12:44] <willcooke> ali1234, ha!  No, ebay in the end - but quite expensive @ 8.50 each (or thereabouts) but the Tyneside place just feels bad to me.  Paypal doesnt work anymore and the other payment provide looks dodgy as hell
[12:44] <willcooke> they're hard to find, even on places like aliexpress
[12:45] <willcooke> I think a few hackspaces have a load of them, but none near me sadly
[12:45] <ali1234> i actually bought them from a different place
[12:45] <ali1234> but that place was even more dodgy, i had to pay with bitcoin
[12:45] <willcooke> :D
[12:45] <ali1234> they arrived in less than 24 hours though
[12:45] <ali1234> the website crashed when taking my order however
[12:46] <willcooke> ha!
[12:46] <ali1234> and i had to email the owner and sort it all out manually
[12:46] <willcooke> urgh
[12:46] <willcooke> Hopefully ebay will come through
[12:46] <foobarry> heh
[12:47] <ali1234> the code should be trivial to port to a different board anyway, it's just that nobody else makes boards that you can plug directly in like a thumbdrive; that's the best thing ever
[12:47] <foobarry> before ebay there used to be much more consumer confidence
[12:47] <foobarry> now i assume everything is fake
[12:47] <zmoylan-pi> nothing like a russian url for an ecommerce site to inspire trust :-)
[12:48] <willcooke> :)
[12:48] <foobarry> allofmp3
[12:49] <ali1234> what i need now is a 433MHz lightswitch so i can control the "big" light as well as all the lamps
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> i wanted the russian dos that they used on satellites for a dos point of sales system we were setting up way back but i couldn't get my boss to trust the russkies :-(
[12:50] <zmoylan-pi> some sort of nerf turret that shoots the light switches? :-p
[12:52] <willcooke> ali1234, could you dismantle one of those plugs and fit it inline with the pendant?  Leave the main switch on all the time to provide power
[12:52] <willcooke> hide it in the lamp shade
[12:53] <ali1234> yeah, i don't really like messing with mains electricity
[12:53] <ali1234> but i thought about it
[12:53] <willcooke> :)
[12:53] <willcooke> you just have to jump at the right time and it's totally safe
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> the nerf gives you a compressed air gap :-)
[12:54] <ali1234> it should be possible to put it inside the light switch pattress box, then i wouldn't need to leave the switch in a particular position (because the switch thing is just a relay)
[12:55] <willcooke> getting live & neutral to a light switch isn't straight forward
[12:55] <willcooke> in my house at least, the switch only has a live and earth
[12:55] <willcooke> neutral is provide by the lighting ring in the ceiling
[12:56] <foobarry> this is why we go to work
[12:56] <foobarry> to pay people to do dangerous things
[12:56] <foobarry> and to fix our cars
[12:56] <willcooke> where's the fun in that? ;)
[12:56] <zmoylan-pi> eyebrows are for losers :-)
[12:56] <popey> people who owned my house before us, used the earth for neutral from downstairs to upstairs light switch
[12:56] <popey> "lol"
[12:57] <foobarry> its part of hte wedding vows
[12:57] <willcooke> popey, that's not that uncommon
[12:57] <willcooke> sadly
[12:57] <willcooke> house built in the late 60s early 70s?
[12:57] <popey> the guy who owned it is a builder
[12:58] <willcooke> there you go
[12:58] <popey> loads of silly things like that
[12:58] <foobarry> our extension has seen different guys to do the bricks/digging/roof/etc
[12:59] <foobarry> builder owns house: does everything :S
[13:05] <czajkowski> oh soo full yummy nice food stalls in the streets around here!
[13:05] <czajkowski> bonus for leaving the house
[13:07] <willcooke> czajkowski, is your office in London?  How often are you down there?
[13:08] <czajkowski> willcooke: every monday from now on although next week I'm up there 3 days as we're at Apps World
[13:08] <czajkowski> over in Shoreditch
[13:09] <willcooke> czajkowski, I'll give you a shout if I'm in town on a Monday
[13:10] <czajkowski> do indeed
[13:10] <popey> willcooke: we went to apps world once didnt we?
[13:10] <willcooke> popey, yeah - it sucked
[13:10] <popey> remember all those Smart TVs with Big Buck Bunny on ☻
[13:10] <willcooke> so, ya know - have fun czajkowski  :D
[13:11] <czajkowski> ndeed
[13:12] <willcooke> that was a few years ago, but it was full of one-man-band app creator companies all offering the same thing
[13:12] <willcooke> to write your generic app for iphone & android
[13:18] <czajkowski> willcooke: popey yes we're there to promote http://developer.couchbase.com/mobile/
[13:19] <popey> neato
[13:25] <ujjain> I have a question for Londonians.
[13:25] <ujjain> where should I watch bonfire night this Saturday evening?
[13:26] <zmoylan-pi> i thought bonfire night was the 5th?
[13:26] <ujjain> or are all places in London kind of the same, people just want to get drunk rather than it being a nice spectacle as in the south, Lewis, Brighton etc.
[13:26] <zmoylan-pi> or is it moveable?
[13:26] <foobarry> theres a special thingin london  on saturday
[13:26] <ujjain> Yeah, but a lot of stuff still happening this weekend
[13:27] <zmoylan-pi> ireland could be underwater on halloween and we'd still set fire to the only dry parts for halloween no matter what.  :-)
[13:28] <czajkowski> there is some london mayor thing on saturday morning followed by fireworks in the evening
[13:28] <foobarry> ujjain: also go and see the poppies at tower of london
[13:28] <ujjain> poppies are red?
[13:29] <ujjain>     a herbaceous plant with showy flowers, milky sap, and rounded seed capsules. Many poppies contain alkaloids and are a source of drugs such as morphine and codeine.
[13:29] <ujjain> ah ok, I like morphine, thanks for the suggestion mate.
[13:33] <MooDoo> howdy all
[13:36] <ujjain> do freelancers pay less tax or something? I dont understand this salary calculator for contractor, it says 6500 salary monthly would be over 5000 take home
[13:38] <willcooke> ujjain, could be that it expects you to pay national insurance etc out of your pocket rather than paye
[13:38] <ujjain> ahh, hmm.
[13:38] <willcooke> dunno - just guessing
[13:38] <willcooke> popey used to contract I think
[13:39] <foobarry> contractors pay corporate tax
[13:40] <foobarry> because they are a "company"
[13:40] <diddledan> foobarry: nuh uh
[13:40] <foobarry> no? thats what the sith african guys were telling me
[13:40] <diddledan> foobarry: only if they incorporate will they be liable for corporate tax
[13:41] <foobarry> all i know is they get around 3x the amount that permies get at our place, and stick around for 2 yrs
[13:41] <diddledan> foobarry: plain self-employed just pay incometax and national insurance
[13:41] <foobarry> so essneitally making all the permies despise them
[13:41] <MooDoo> ooo lxd
[13:41] <diddledan> permies get benefits in kind tho - pension scheme, holiday pay, employer's national insurance top-up
[13:42] <diddledan> sick pay, also
[13:42] <foobarry> sure. but 3x the wage for less accountability?
[13:42] <popey> it works both ways
[13:43] <popey> I've worked (as a contractor) where the permies did naff all
[13:43] <popey> being a permie was a spectator sport
[13:43] <foobarry> i see that a lot
[13:43] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Go contracting ing, earn 3x what you do now
[13:43] <popey> they watch the contrators do the work
[13:43] <foobarry> mainly because they feel devalued by perceived unfair system
[13:43] <popey> been multiple places like that in fact
[13:43] <popey> i dont think you can generalise like that
[13:43] <foobarry> if the contractors were used for short term contracts it would be ok
[13:44] <foobarry> but its so hard to sack/eliminiate permies at our gaff then they just hired contractors for 2,3 years
[13:44] <popey> and most contractors I know don't take home "3x" what permies do
[13:44] <foobarry> to deal with it
[13:44] <foobarry> they should be fixed term rathr than daily rate
[13:44] <foobarry> our permies our paid less
[13:44] <foobarry> than many
[13:44] <foobarry> but the contractors are paid city contrator rates
[13:45] <foobarry> i've worked at many companies, this is the worst situation
[13:45] <foobarry> although in the bank some  contrators were on 250,000
[13:46] <foobarry> even 15 yrs ago :S
[13:47] <foobarry> i don't mind contractors used for their intended purpose but abuse of the system leads to dissent and general malaise
[13:47] <foobarry> it will ultimately lead to outsourcing if the permies underperform
[13:47] <ujjain> ah awesome, I only make 150k
[13:47] <ujjain> everything you read on the internet is true
[13:47] <ujjain> naaah, I wish I made more, but I guess IT people have good salaries.
[13:48] <diddledan> 150k?!
[13:48] <diddledan> this is pounds sterling, right?
[13:48] <foobarry> he's joking
[13:49] <foobarry> many IT people are on very average salaries
[13:49] <foobarry> hopefully they enjoy their jobs
[13:49] <zmoylan-pi> spot the i.t. staff heavy drinking in every pub on a friday night
[13:50] <foobarry> office workers
[13:50] <zmoylan-pi> those too
[13:51] <foobarry> but IT staff tend to dominate the bars in our building
[13:51] <foobarry> old guard mainly
[13:51] <foobarry> 50+ greybeards
[13:51] <zmoylan-pi> walk up and ask a ms windows query... :-)
[13:51] <foobarry> plex app on tablet is nice
[13:52] <foobarry> subtitles appear 1s too late :(
[13:52] <foobarry> more annoying than i expected
[13:52] <popey> have you seen http://mediabrowser.tv/
[13:52] <czajkowski> popey: willcooke https://www.apps-world.net/germany/
[13:53] <foobarry> no
[13:53] <ujjain> diddledan, naaah, 150k not true, a little less than 2 times the average income in the UK
[13:53] <popey> free software plex-like
[13:53] <ujjain> popey, how do you feel about contractor work in IT?
[13:53] <ujjain> if you don't mind me asking
[13:53] <foobarry> i wonder if it hand;es library generation any better than plex
[13:53] <popey> I did it for 10 years
[13:54] <popey> Enjoyed it.
[13:54] <popey> But it's stressful when you don't have a contract
[13:54] <foobarry> and it was SAP :S
[13:54] <popey> and the rates can vary, so the whole "3x permie" is not as gold as it sounds
[13:54] <ujjain> ah ok, I might do it some day. Because I don't do anything at my job, but Facebook/Reddit, and it's a bit boring.
[13:54] <foobarry> :-|
[13:54] <ujjain> really? It sounnds like permies pay more or the same tax as contractors
[13:55] <popey> i dont want to get into specifics of salaries/rates
[13:55] <popey> but the rate I was paid dropped dramatically over the years
[13:55] <popey> we had an influx of people from india flood the market
[13:55] <popey> (and other countries)
[13:56] <popey> which meant rates dropped significantly
[13:56] <diddledan> as soon as you start publicly talking numbers either you'll annoy people that earn less or get annoyed when someone tells you they earn more
[13:56] <popey> heh
[13:56] <popey> and the tax paid depends on the person
[13:56] <christel> ... and on your accountant!
[13:56] <christel> ;)
[13:56] <popey> some people do all kinds of tricks to avoid paying tax
[13:56] <popey> indeed
[13:56] <Azelphur> I have a very good friend that contracts, he has managed to keep his contract for like 10 years though, so he's golden
[13:57] <popey> yeah, i know a guy who contracted for 10 years at 1k/day
[13:57] <Azelphur> so he is living the 3x permie dream I guess :)
[13:57] <Azelphur> dam haha
[13:57] <popey> drove a beaten up vauxhall nova to work
[13:57] <popey> didn't show off at all
[13:57] <popey> wore a tatty suit.
[13:57] <popey> then one day decided to treat himself and turned up in a jaguar ☻
[13:58] <zmoylan-pi> ate sandwiches from home for lunch?
[13:58] <Azelphur> hehe nice
[13:58] <popey> yes zmoylan-pi
[13:58] <zmoylan-pi> every penny counts
[13:58] <popey> he worked hard. harder than any of the permies we worked with.
[13:58] <popey> not sure he worked "1k/day" hard
[13:58] <popey> but that was the rate back then
[13:58] <diddledan> dotcom bubble?
[13:59] <foobarry> the 1k day guy i knew was 35 stone
[13:59] <diddledan> foobarry: I need to eat more
[13:59] <popey> Y2K bubble
[13:59] <Azelphur> I'm really enjoying my current salary job, admittedly I'm not paid anywhere near what I'm worth (£18.7k) but I get nice bonuses, and I work from home, and I can work whenever I want, take days off whenever I want, they don't even log my hours, and they are buying me a really nice laptop :)
[13:59] <christel> .
[13:59] <foobarry> chuffed down leffe like it was water
[13:59] <Azelphur> so that's nice and all.
[13:59] <christel> perhaps he got paid by the lb? :)
[13:59] <foobarry> its imoprtant to do a job you enjoy
[13:59] <Azelphur> oh, and my salary is in BTC too \o/
[13:59] <Azelphur> foobarry: indeed
[14:00] <foobarry> or if not, be compensated in salary
[14:00] <popey> Hmm, Hudl2 does this wierd thing where it gets charge full then flip flops between charging and not charging
[14:00] <popey> rapidly like 5/sec
[14:00] <popey> anyone seen that with android devices?
[14:00] <Azelphur> popey: you got a hudl2?
[14:00] <popey> yes
[14:00] <Azelphur> nice
[14:00] <popey> yeah, it's an excellent device
[14:00] <popey> better than the nexus 7
[14:00] <Azelphur> popey: most phones bump charge in order to not destroy the battery
[14:00] <Azelphur> maybe that's what you're seeing
[14:00] <foobarry> trickle ?
[14:00] <popey> no i mean, the light flashes on and off
[14:00] <popey> constantly
[14:00] <popey> lemme video
[14:00] <Azelphur> popey: maybe it's a really bad implementation of bump charging :)
[14:01] <popey> ah, only does it when the screen is on
[14:01] <Azelphur> popey: that's impressive though, my dad was asking me about one the other day, what's the battery life like?
[14:01] <zmoylan-pi> my asus 7" tablet charges for a few mins then doesn't for a few minutes.  i'd say 1 min on and 1 min off.  never timed it
[14:01] <Azelphur> I would have thought that x86 would drain the battery real fast
[14:01] <popey> nah
[14:01] <popey> I watched 6 hours of HD films
[14:02] <foobarry> mediabrowser is mono .
[14:02] <popey> then the battery died
[14:02] <popey> yes, yes it is.
[14:02] <foobarry> hudl 2 is x86???
[14:02] <Azelphur> nice
[14:02] <popey> yes
[14:02] <Azelphur> foobarry: yup
[14:02] <foobarry> wow i didnt know
[14:02] <popey> its really nicely built too
[14:02] <popey> feels nice in the hand
[14:02] <popey> 1080p too
[14:02] <popey> I have very few faults with it
[14:02] <foobarry> why did they do x86
[14:02] <popey> why not?
[14:03] <popey> not the first
[14:03] <awilkins> Probably got a nice bung from Intel to shift x86 mobile processors
[14:03] <popey> probably scored a good deal from the ODM
[14:03] <ujjain> thanks for sharing popey :)
[14:03] <ujjain> a hudl2 seems a bitb ig right?
[14:03] <popey> yeah
[14:03] <ujjain> the border seems big
[14:03] <ujjain> the thing around the glass
[14:03] <ujjain> my nexus 5 has a horrible battery.
[14:03] <Azelphur> I actually like the idea of the x86
[14:03] <popey> you need a border on a tablet, to hold the thing
[14:03] <Azelphur> I bet you could do some interesting hacking with it
[14:03] <popey> yeah, that was my idea
[14:03] <zmoylan-pi> i want a rasp pi tablet...
[14:03] <popey> want to put ubuntu on it eventually
[14:03] <popey> no, you don't ☻
[14:03] <Azelphur> popey: let me know if you do that, I'm interested :)
[14:04] <popey> unless you want an underpowered tablet with poor battery life and which is an inch thick?
[14:04] <foobarry> wonder if wife has stopped being sick yet
[14:04] <popey> ujjain: np
[14:04] <Azelphur> with that kind of review, I think I'm going to replace my usual "cheap tablet" recommendation from Nexus 7 to the Tesco Hudl2 :)
[14:04] <foobarry> so much disease in this house
[14:04] <popey> totally do so
[14:04] <popey> I would buy one at the full price
[14:04] <popey> ended up paying 40 quid for my hudl2
[14:04] <zmoylan-pi> especially if you have a tesco clubcard with lots of points
[14:04] <foobarry> ?
[14:04] <Azelphur> popey: what's the OS like, have they stayed to their mostly vanilla Android roots?
[14:05] <foobarry> i thouht it was 2x clubcard
[14:05] <Azelphur> or have they aggresively tesco-ised it
[14:05] <popey> yeah, it's android and some tesco BS
[14:05] <ujjain> popey, how? I have 5000 tesco points, I don't understand so well
[14:05] <Azelphur> popey: is that just the little button in the bottom left?
[14:05] <popey> i haven't actually touched any of the tesco apps
[14:05] <popey> no, lemme screenshot for you
[14:05] <Azelphur> cool
[14:05] <foobarry> 5000?
[14:05] <Azelphur> then yea, different from the hudl 1
[14:05] <ujjain> foobarry, yes.
[14:05] <foobarry> thats 5000£ worth?
[14:05] <ujjain> I think 50 worth
[14:05] <foobarry> or 50.00
[14:05] <foobarry> ah
[14:05] <diddledan> 1 clubcard = 1p
[14:06] <foobarry> i have about that, gonna spend on RAC rescue
[14:06] <diddledan> 1 nectar = 0.5p
[14:06] <foobarry> my tesco credit card pays me well
[14:06] <foobarry> cos i  spend ~ 15k pa onm it
[14:06] <ujjain> i think maybe i'll buy avios
[14:06] <ujjain> how much is £15k credit card spendingi n tesco points?
[14:07] <ujjain> £150 worth of tesco points seems so much?
[14:07] <Azelphur> I have like £20 on my clubcard now haha
[14:08] <davmor2> popey: blinkbox is apparently worth it I have no idea if it is or not, but stepson is using it instead of netflix and is loving it
[14:08] <popey> i already have netflix
[14:08] <popey> and amazon
[14:08] <popey> so dont "need" blinkbox
[14:08] <Azelphur> "This is a stylish, desirable, and cheap full-featured Android tablet  that will satisfy the whole family. It completely outshines virtually  everything in the same price bracket. You'll be impressed at just how  much Tesco's Hudl 2 offers for your money."
[14:08] <Azelphur> wow, techradar likes it
[14:09] <popey> There you go, 7 screenshots http://imgur.com/SuwZgJD,3pc2ley,B4mUC63,yuTzdmN,cuTzAvI,PpvGUIo,jnUmk3h
[14:09] <popey> mostly stock, as it comes, with a few apps added here and there, but not much modified
[14:09] <Azelphur> ah, yes that's just like the hudl 1
[14:09] <popey> I haven't clicked any of the tesco icons yet :
[14:09] <Azelphur> extra apps and the tesco button at the top right (or bottom left depending on orientation)
[14:09] <popey> saw someone has rooted it and removed the tesco apps
[14:10] <Azelphur> yea, that's easy to do
[14:10] <Azelphur> you should be able to just disable the tesco apps from settings though
[14:10] <popey> they dont bother me
[14:10] <ujjain> i dont understand tesco, :( can I get the hudl2 for 5000 tesco points?
[14:10] <popey> ujjain: go to the website and find out?
[14:10] <popey> just add it to your basket and it will tell you
[14:10] <ujjain> i did both, still no idea,
[14:11] <ujjain> let me try to upgrade my thinking level and see if I can figure it out
[14:11] <Azelphur> popey: hehe duolingo trolled me the other day, https://www.dropbox.com/s/amddm5tln5szwsh/2014-11-05%2003.00.17.png?dl=0 note the timestamp on the notification
[14:11] <ujjain> :D
[14:12] <ujjain> I think you can only get the udle2 with clubcard vouchers, not with points
[14:12] <ujjain> I only have 2.5 in vouchers
[14:12] <popey> haha
[14:12] <popey> there you go
[14:12] <Azelphur> ujjain: aww
[14:12] <popey> yeah, i used vouchers
[14:12] <popey> so yeah, I'm very happy with it. I use it every day
[14:12] <Azelphur> popey: juicessh, interesting, do you choose that over connectbot for any reasons? or is that just the one you settled on
[14:13] <ujjain> yeah,everybody seems positive about it
[14:13] <popey> neve ruse it Azelphur
[14:13] <Azelphur> fair enough :)
[14:13] <popey> installed because I had it on a previous device
[14:13] <popey> I never need ssh that urgently ☻
[14:13] <Azelphur> popey: I use connectbot and I have a tasker task that changes my keyboard to hackers keyboard when I use connectbot, really handy
[14:13] <popey> screenshots please?
[14:13] <Azelphur> of hackers keyboard / connectbot?
[14:14] <popey> i am looking around at mobile terminal apps, want to improve ours
[14:14] <popey> yeah, whatever you use to do terminal on a mobile device
[14:14] <Azelphur> ah, I'll get you a bunch of screenshots
[14:14] <popey> thanks
[14:14] <popey> the hudle needs a chunky charger
[14:15] <popey> it wont charge off anything less than 2A
[14:15] <popey> especially if the screen is on
[14:15] <popey> it wont even charge off my Anker battery pack
[14:16] <ujjain> what can I do with tesco points btw? I only see what I can do with vouchers, but vouchers are not points,
[14:17] <ujjain> maybe it takes time before points before vouchers
[14:17] <Azelphur> popey: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=gallery&t=f5d6e0eaf4f9b10665f1d64e83f6cba2
[14:18] <Azelphur> one of the really useful things is it hijacks the volume control and uses it to set the terminal resolution
[14:19] <popey> what size device you doing that on?
[14:20] <popey> those keys look small
[14:20] <popey> thanks for the screenshots.
[14:21] <Azelphur> popey: Nexus 5
[14:22] <Azelphur> and yea, they are small, hackers keyboard is a little fiddly but with SSH it's more beneficial to have a full keyboard and have it be a tad fiddley.
[14:22] <foobarry> points are converted to vouchers every 3 months
[14:22] <Azelphur> interesting
[14:24] <foobarry> when u spend £1 on a tesco credit card at any retails u get points
[14:24] <foobarry> and more pts at tesco ofc
[14:24] <foobarry> so buying my annual season ticket gives me 1000 pts instantly
[14:24] <Azelphur> I have 42 points and £21 in vouchers \o/
[14:25] <Azelphur> foobarry: I think I heard something about vouchers counting for 2x against the hudls or something?
[14:25] <foobarry> they also send me 750 pts occasionally to reatin me as customer, which is the only company i know who actively retain you
[14:25] <foobarry> Azelphur: yes
[14:25] <foobarry> clubcard boost
[14:25] <Azelphur> so I could get a hudl 2 for £87?
[14:26] <Azelphur> that's actually pretty cool
[14:26] <foobarry> With the Hudl2 you also get £60 of vouchers including:
[14:26] <foobarry> • £25 free blinkbox credit to spend on movies, books and music
[14:26] <foobarry> etc
[14:27] <ujjain> ahhh thanks foobarry, now I understand.
[14:28] <foobarry> quidco also give 1.5% on tesco direct purchases
[14:28] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:28] <ujjain> good stuff.
[14:28] <ujjain> UK supermarkets are very expensive, but at least you guys have nice rewards.
[14:28] <ujjain> I used to pay £6.50 for 24x330ml Heineken.
[14:28] <ujjain> I bought for 25 pound tesco stuff
[14:28] <Azelphur> foobarry: oO
[14:28] <ujjain> 5 pound cashback and 5 pound discount for first time customer
[14:28] <ujjain> was pretty good, and you get some bonus points automatically.
[14:28] <ujjain>  Tesco Grocery New Customer Purchase  http://www.topcashback.co.uk/tesco/
[14:29] <ujjain> 5.25
[14:29] <foobarry> Hudl 2
[14:29] <foobarry> Exclusive Offer!
[14:29] <foobarry> Ends In 2 Days
[14:29] <foobarry> 2.62%
[14:30] <ujjain> yahoo
[14:31] <Azelphur> "Where the Nexus 7 really outshines the Hudl 2 is battery life. The Hudl 2  achieved a time of just 6hrs 51mins in our looping video test; the  Nexus 7 achieved 11hrs 48mins. The Hudl 2 also doesn't last well on  standby."
[14:31] <Azelphur> seems the Nexus 7 is better on the battery at least
[14:31] <Azelphur> but in benchmarks the hudl wins
[14:33] <foobarry> arm vs x86
[14:33] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:33] <Azelphur> I think the pcpro review has a nexus 7 bias though
[14:33] <popey> not just that
[14:33] <popey> bigger screen
[14:34] <popey> what res is the nexus 7?
[14:34] <Azelphur> popey: same res screen as the nexus 7 (1920x1200)
[14:34] <popey> interesting
[14:34] <foobarry> roof tiles going on the extension
[14:34] <popey> I'd agree with the 6 hours film playback
[14:34] <foobarry> autumn has been good to my builders
[14:34] <popey> given I was on an 8 hour flight
[14:34] <popey> and it died before we landed
[14:34] <Azelphur> however the review mentions that the Hudl 2 uses dynamic contrast, while the Nexus 7 doesn't
[14:35] <foobarry> last time i was on a flight, tablets didn't exist
[14:35] <foobarry> nor kindles..
[14:39] <popey> i proably have a different tablet every time i fly
[14:41] <czajkowski> popey: see over there ----->
[14:41] <popey>                                                            what?
[14:46] <DJones> Azelphur: My wife replaced her N7 with a Hudl2, she's not had any complaints about battery life, she's said its as good as the N7 and she uses it quite a lot for streaming video (netflix/Skygo)
[14:46] <foobarry> my daughter keeps appearing holding stock cubes
[14:46] <foobarry> at least i know what she wants for xmas
[14:51] <foobarry> made some progress on my diorama. needs colour correction though http://i.imgur.com/alTouEg.jpg
[14:51] <popey> what do you do with them when they're finished?
[14:52] <foobarry> i have 2 ikea glass display cabinets
[14:52] <foobarry> usually i model in 1:72 so they can fit a lot
[14:52] <foobarry> except the lancaster, which will go on son's ceiling
[14:52] <foobarry> in true airfix style
[14:53] <foobarry> the dio will have a tank on the left, hence tracks
[14:53] <foobarry> and puddles, which i need to go to a nail bar for
[14:53] <foobarry> and buy acrylic gel :S
[14:58] <Azelphur> DJones: nice
[15:06] <mapps> what a useless airport..cant go anywhere but UK from Gibralar airport basically
[15:06] <mapps> ;[
[15:06] <MooDoo> well i hope the rain stops :(
[15:06] <mapps> :(
[15:21] <MooDoo> fireworks tonight
[15:22] <davmor2> MooDoo: take a brolly
[15:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: supposed to stop in a few hours, fingers crossed
[15:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: was it you who were telling me about lxd?  or was that lxc?
[15:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: It's England, It's a big event weekend, It's going to rain :D
[15:23] <MooDoo> :D
[15:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: I told you to try LXC ages ago
[15:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: LXD is just the next progression
[15:23] <MooDoo> yeah couldn't remember, just been watching lxd stuff
[15:25] <diddledan> lxd?
[15:26] <MooDoo> secure container hypervisor deamon
[15:26] <davmor2> diddledan: lxc with knobs on
[15:27] <diddledan> how do I get my own knobs?
[15:28] <MooDoo> sudo apt-get install knobs
[15:28] <davmor2> diddledan: http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/lxd
[15:29] <Laney> why did they make it lex-dee when lxc is lxc? :(
[15:29] <davmor2> diddledan: also just try opening and door in your home with your own Knobs :P
[15:29] <Laney> oh, they claim it's lex-c later on
[15:29] <davmor2> Laney: we have been saying it wrong for years and apparently LXD sounds like a drug :D
[15:30] <Laney> lsd?
[15:31] <davmor2> Laney: see sabdfls video on the subject
[15:32] <Laney> well, good luck ;-)
[15:39] <ujjain> is feeling bad while doing nothing and having to do nothing at work weird?
[15:43] <MooDoo> ujjain: nope not at all, same here, but I get to leave in 5 mins
[15:44] <ujjain> meh, this is no life, every day nothing, so empty, I used to be ok with it, but it's too much free time
[15:44] <MooDoo> then do something else in your down time, study for an exam or something?
[15:45] <ujjain> yeah, I guess I should think about more useful things to do
[15:50] <foobarry> ujjain: what's yr area of expertise?
[15:50] <ujjain> linux sysadmin
[15:54] <foobarry> learn openstack?
[15:54] <foobarry> there's no end of stuff to learn with linux
[15:54] <foobarry> docker?
[15:55] <foobarry> get up to speed on latest tech for when you do next job
[15:55] <foobarry> done your RHSCA?
[15:55] <ujjain> yeah, I spend 40 hours a week on that stuff
[15:55] <ujjain> yeah, I have my RHCE training+exam in 3 weeks
[15:55] <ujjain> but after a while, it becomes too much time, but I think I'll apply for a different position within the company or maybe contract work in future
[15:56] <foobarry> thats why i make model kits out of hours
[15:57] <foobarry> because tv is junk and my brain is tired but i want to be creative and relax
[16:01] <ujjain> yeah, I need to do something creative too, osmething that makes me feel good, a project that I'd have passion for. I spent time with docke,r but at one moment you don't have a real goal in mind.
[16:02] <foobarry> i bet the monitoring in your place isn't up to scratch
[16:03] <foobarry> look into adagios, logstash, graphite, etc
[16:03] <foobarry> great monitoring makes you look awesome
[16:03] <foobarry> monitor everything and blow the bosses minds
[16:04] <ujjain> if I make a change, 30.000 servers will be impacted
[16:04] <ujjain> I was working on that, but everything happens in the US, we are just night shift.
[16:04] <ujjain> they just want us to do repairs in the 6 hours the US sleeps
[16:05] <ujjain> I miss working with 1500 servers and doing everything in a smaller Linux team, you can do much that way.
[16:09] <ujjain> but thanks for thinking along, I think I should join a different team, other teams should be better
[16:37] <foobarry> sounds like you are stuck in ops world
[16:38] <foobarry> ops guys cannot change stuff , or solve problems in interesting ways because the role is locked down
[16:40] <ujjain> yeah true, I am foobarry
[16:40] <ujjain> but support is not much better either
[16:40] <ujjain> I guess maybe devops would be nice
[17:42] <foobarry> http://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/
[17:55] <foobarry> http://games.slashdot.org/story/14/11/07/1237236/major-performance-improvement-discovered-for-intels-gpu-linux-driver
[18:01] <foobarry> maybe i can run that with my 20% faster kernel promised a year or so back
[18:01] <popey> eh
[18:01] <popey> *heh
[18:03] <zmoylan-pi> and run it on a quantum computer powered by your mr. fusion?
[18:04] <diddledan> foobarry: that 20% faster kernel - do I know about that?
[18:04]  * diddledan needs linkbait
[18:06] <foobarry> olde promise we never got
[18:06] <zmoylan-pi> where to start...
[18:06] <foobarry> was from some 100 line change
[18:06] <zmoylan-pi> bubble memory was the first i remember from 80s
[18:06] <zmoylan-pi> was going to change everything!!!!
[18:07] <diddledan> I think I recall everyone saying that desktops were about to get awesome speed boosts, if that's the same issue. what actually happened to make it not arrive?
[18:07] <popey> You'll Never Believe What This 100 Line Patch Will Do To Your System!!!!
[18:07] <diddledan> IIRC it was an interrupt/timing thing
[18:08] <foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13562/how-do-we-get-this-magic-performance-boosting-200-line-patch
[18:08] <Azelphur> wait, when did this become buzzfeed
[18:08] <zmoylan-pi> windows for pen was going to change everything in early 90s.  the fud killed go unfortunately
[18:08] <foobarry> you wont believe what happened next
[18:09] <foobarry> no speed up
[18:09] <popey> wow, 4 years ago
[18:10] <zmoylan-pi> you shouldn't antropomorphise penguins.  they hate it when you do that :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B124WfOIYAEftmw.jpg:large
[18:11] <diddledan> lol
[18:12] <foobarry> what happpened to the url bot in here?
[18:12] <diddledan> I was told to shut it down
[18:12] <foobarry> heh
[18:12] <foobarry> by non irssi users
[18:12] <zmoylan-pi> someone pointed it at itself and it's off url gazing :-)
[18:13] <Myrtti> I think I just asked if you had asked permission for it and pointed out that it might be a good idea to turn it off until you do get a permission.
[18:14] <popey> well, actually nobody said remove it
[18:14] <popey> exactly
[18:14] <Myrtti> and I am greatly offended by your allegation that I'm not an irssi user ;____;
[18:14] <Myrtti> *snif*
[18:15]  * zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti an ascii hankie
[18:15] <diddledan> I didn't get around to that bit
[18:15] <Myrtti> talking of irssi
[18:16] <Myrtti> woo new irssi from few weeks back
[18:16] <Myrtti> I still should dig some time to finish the theme I wrote for it
[18:16] <foobarry> i updated it too. dont remember if there was a reason to so do
[18:16] <Myrtti> next update might make sasl inbuilt
[18:18] <Myrtti> bah. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=lg_g_watch_r_black
[18:19] <zmoylan-pi> go on holidays to a country it is available?
[18:23] <zmoylan-pi> or get a relative in a country where it is for sale to order and ship it to you?
[18:24] <Myrtti> that's all fine and dandy, but someone (not me) ordered themselves a Moto360 yesterday from expansys.
[18:24] <zmoylan-pi> ah, now it becomes clear
[18:24] <zmoylan-pi> cancel expansys order?
[18:24] <zmoylan-pi> if it hasn't shipped already
[18:26] <Myrtti> he claims that he still prefers the Moto360. Who knows.
[18:26] <Myrtti> Men.
[18:26] <Myrtti> pah.
[18:26]  * zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti a cattle prod to help extract better answers
[18:27] <ali1234> diddledan: the 100 line patch arrived, it's enabled by default
[18:27] <Myrtti> time to go boil some pasta, methinks.
[18:27] <Myrtti> then to pub
[18:30] <christel> i am so rock and roll that i just returned from the pub!
[18:30]  * brobostigon went to the pub last night, for pub quiz.
[18:31] <zmoylan-pi> and did you use google to look up answers?
[18:31] <brobostigon> no.
[18:31] <zmoylan-pi> bing?
[18:31] <brobostigon> no.
[18:32] <brobostigon> no assistance of any kind, and me and my gf coming last again, proves it.
[18:32] <zmoylan-pi> you need a better phone :-)
[18:33] <brobostigon> haha
[18:33] <zmoylan-pi> or ask if amazon echo can be a team mate :-p
[18:34] <brobostigon> or if google music can help with the music questions.
[18:38] <zmoylan-pi> i use soundhound for that
[18:44] <brobostigon> :)
[18:50] <foobarry> the pub quiz is dead, it needs to evolve into non googleable questions
[18:51] <brobostigon> like dingbats?
[18:54] <zmoylan-pi> what is the nearest chinese restaurant to this pub sort of question
[18:55] <brobostigon> lol
[18:56] <zmoylan-pi> what colour is the wall outside the pub?
[18:57] <popey> there is probably a market in making questions which aren't googleable
[18:57] <zmoylan-pi> the same list of questions would generate different answers in different locations
[18:58] <popey> you could do ones that need lateral thinking
[18:58] <zmoylan-pi> but you'd need a few 1000 questions to draw a random list from
[18:58] <popey> not general knowledge
[18:58] <popey> like Riddling does
[18:58] <ali1234> i played riddling the other day
[18:58] <ali1234> i got to some level and i think that the questions are out of date
[18:58] <ali1234> because i can't find the answer
[18:59] <ali1234> i think it's US cities by population, and i think the order has changed
[18:59] <popey> aq gave a fun talk at oggcamp about riddling
[19:00] <ali1234> level 24 if anyone has the answers
[19:24] <foobarry> are oggcamp talks online?
[19:24] <foobarry> (2014)
[19:45] <popey> some
[19:53] <foobarry> "men have hobbies and females don't understand them"..
[19:54] <foobarry> detectorists has bene my favourite tv of the year
[20:01] <popey> yes
[20:01] <popey> same here
[20:01] <popey> watched 3 eps back to back
[20:02] <daftykins> https://www.humblebundle.com/store - Metro 2033 free
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> banished cheap
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> what's metro 2033
[20:30] <daftykins> some dark corridor post apocalyptic Russian type shooter thing
[20:30] <daftykins> i think it's based on a book series
[20:38] <MooDoo> BANG!!!!!!!
[20:39] <brobostigon> BOOM
[20:39] <MooDoo> sorry been to a fireworks party at my sisters :D
[20:39] <daftykins> hah
[20:39] <daftykins> on Wednesday night it took me ages to work out why there were fireworks going off :(
[20:39] <daftykins> i was that aware of the date
[20:40]  * brobostigon has a fireworks party to go to tmrw, with the gf.
[20:40] <MooDoo> :)
[20:41] <brobostigon> hopefully the weather will cooperate, its forecasting rain most of tmrw afternoon/evening
[20:41] <MooDoo> glad it stopped tonight.
[20:41] <daftykins> mmm definitely more chilly of late now
[20:42] <brobostigon> agreed.
[22:07] <Azelphur> http://youtu.be/GafOuTf5ntQ ...had to be done.
[22:08] <daftykins> XD
[22:13] <daftykins> these Amazon FireTVs are really becoming tough to resist
[22:13] <daftykins> as an XBMC type contraption
[22:20] <zmoylan-pi> i'd probably need a tv first so it's not so hard...
[22:21] <daftykins> not got HDMI input on your screens?
[22:21] <daftykins> assuming you run a desktop
[22:21] <zmoylan-pi> vga all the way, though my 'best' screen also does scart :-)
[22:22] <zmoylan-pi> i acquired it when i needed a screen to setup up my pi
[22:23] <daftykins> eww VGA
[22:24] <zmoylan-pi> and if i could have found one of the antique cga/av crts my company used to sell i'd have used it in a heartbeat :-)
[22:29] <ali1234> recommend dell U2410, it has composite video and it can just about manage PAL/NTSC on the VGA port
[22:29] <ali1234> interlaced PAL looks a bit weird
[22:29] <ali1234> NTSC is okay though
[22:30] <zmoylan-pi> there's nothing like a warm crt in winter with a cat sleeping on top
[22:32] <ali1234> the dell gets plenty hot too
[22:34] <daftykins> there's nothing good about CRTs :(
[22:35] <Azelphur> daftykins: my XBMC type contraption is a chromebox reflashed with openelec.
[22:36] <daftykins> Azelphur: yarr, did it beat £65? :>
[22:37] <Azelphur> nope
[22:37] <Azelphur> was £160
[22:37] <daftykins> yeah i already have my ion1 :(
[22:37] <daftykins> i just like the idea of a more silent device