[18:15] <sethj> who would I talk to about/what would I do/etc about getting an app/package included in the LiveCD (and/or the default install)?
[18:16] <sethj> I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but it seemed right..
[18:19] <sney> is the package already in ubuntu?
[18:21] <sethj> no
[18:22] <sethj> sney, it isn't even written yet ;P
[18:22] <sney> then you've got a long way to go, pal
[18:22] <sney> which is not to say that it's impossible, but
[18:23] <sethj> sney, Oh I realize that, but you see, before we even begin we need to decide if we want to use Gtk or Qt. Qt isn't included in the liveCD (for Python anyway)
[18:24] <sney> I'm from the debian side so I'm not super familiar with the ubuntu process, but I would guess it goes something like make software -> package & publish to a PPA -> come back to #ubuntu-motu and ask for it to be included in the archive -> beg $metapackage maintainers to have it included with some default package set
[18:25] <sethj> sney, thanks, that is helpful. I was getting conflicting information so I wanted to ask. One person told me getting included wasn't too hard, you just need to make a case. Another person told me it was almost impossible.
[18:25] <sney> if your goal is to be distributed with the ubuntu cd, then you are probably better off not depending on something else that isn't yet distributed
[18:25] <sethj> exactly.
[18:27] <sney> your software also has to be useful. space is limited on installer/live isos, and gui stuff just keeps getting bigger
[18:28] <sney> eventually, the CD-size iso will probably be abandoned altogether, but installer teams still prefer to keep things trim for various reasons
[18:29] <sethj> sney, if you're curious, we're building this: http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/5738/ask-ubuntu-troubleshooter-defining-a-tool-that-new-users-will-use
[18:29] <sethj> sney, do they keep a special ISO for CDs? I know since Ubuntu 13.04 the main ISO was bigger than a CD.
[18:29] <sney> hmm, neat
[18:30] <sney> good question, like I said I'm from debian so I'm not deeply familiar with ubuntu's practices. I guess they abandoned that size already :P
[18:30] <sney> debian still has some cd-size installers and live images
[18:31] <sney> question:
[18:32] <sney> how would you feel about taking the ubuntu branding off and making this a more broad troubleshooting tool? we have a lot of similar questions in debian support resources, with the same hurdle of having to teach basic troubleshooting to every user...
[18:32] <sney> if this thing collects the relevant information and throws it on a pastebin based on a couple clicks, that would really streamline things, heh
[18:34] <sney> plus, software that's in the debian archive gets automatically pushed to ubuntu, and you can customize them for each distro with separate patch sets
[18:34] <sethj> sney, actually that was what we were planning to do. Call it something more generic and see if we can get it in Debian.
[18:34] <sethj> since, like you said, it would be useful to many people.
[18:35] <sney> then you're in the wrong channel! #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net is where you want to be
[18:35] <sethj> yep, when I need a sponsor, but we're not quite there yet ;P
[18:35] <sney> well, indeed
[18:36] <sney> what's your approximate roadmap? is that on the stackexchange page?
[18:36] <sethj> Right now we just needed to know about getting it on the Ubuntu LiveCD to help decide on frameworks. We'll probably end up with Gtk.
[18:36] <sney> I would suggest gtk certainly
[18:37] <sney> debian's default DE might be gnome one day or xfce the next but gtk is still common between them
[18:37] <sney> mint also uses gtk for their cinnamon DE
[18:38] <sney> mate is gtk...
[18:38] <sney> I'm a kde user and I use lots of gtk apps still. it's more universal.
[18:39] <sethj> thanks for the tips, those are good points I hadn't considered.
[18:39] <Unit193> Unity, LXDE (LXQt), and KDE are going Qt5, Xfce is GTK2, Gnome, MATE, and Cinnamon are GTK3.
[18:40] <sney> unity is going qt? that's... surprising
[18:41] <Unit193> Heh, started out Qt too. :P
[18:41] <sney> I guess the other option is to separate the software into frontend/backend. do people still do that? anyway, then you could also have a curses/text interface, for noobs with servers
[18:42]  * Unit193 likes ncurses...
[18:42] <sney> if you want universal appeal that would really be the way to go
[18:43] <sney> oh especially since a lot of the questions people ask are something along the lines of "help, it said 'no screens found'"
[18:47] <sethj> yes, we are planning on a cli backend, a curses frontend and then either a Qt or GTK gui frontend.
[18:47] <sethj> Unit193, LXDE is going Qt? I did not know that.
[18:48] <sethj> Either way though, the python bindings for Qt aren't included in a default install so it seems like Gtk is our best bet.
[18:48] <sney> indeed
[19:06] <sethj> well thanks for the help sney and Unit193!
[19:07] <sney> no prob, keep me informed
[19:07] <Unit193> Heh, I didn't really help.  Have fun and good luck!
[19:07] <Unit193> (Also, Qt people seem more open to installing GTK applications than GTK people with Qt.)
[19:08] <sney> another point in favor of gtk