=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
=== nik90_ is now known as nik90
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu UI Toolkit roadmap: What's new and what's planned? | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22357/ubuntu-qml-components-whats-new-whats-planned-and-what-else-do-you-want-to-know/
popeyt1mp: you're all set for this session?14:02
t1mpcan people see us?14:03
mhall119says "starting soon"14:03
mhall119if you just started the broadcast, it takes a minute or two for the stream to catch up14:03
mhall119ok, video is streaming now \o/14:03
mhall119zsombi: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?14:08
t1mpif you want to ask a question, please prefix it with QUESTION: (caps) so it is easier for us to see it14:09
mhall119QUESTION: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?14:09
* mhall119 should know better14:09
SidPaytonThe Video is not working on my Ubuntu. Neither on Firefox nor Chrome. Thought maybe someone is having the same problems14:11
cheeseheadVideo working great here14:11
SidPaytonIt's working on my Android device :(14:12
nik90QUESTION: Is there a plan to include helper test functions to perform actions like clicking header buttons (interacting with other sdk components etc) in Ubuntu.Test?14:13
nik90t1mp, zsombi: Well I was recommended by other unity8 developers to use QML test suites for the clock app. As such I have started created helper functions for these.14:18
anatoliwasn't there a distinction saying what to do with which kind of tests? ie. unit tests for API, AP for UX14:19
nik90QUESTION: Would the header and pagestack animation make its way into rtm? Or are we talking about the future vivid cycle?14:29
* balloons watching and reading scrollback on test helpers14:34
mhall119zsombi: the camera is stuck on you, click your thumbnail to un-highlight yourself and let us see t1mp14:37
t1mpmhall119: I should have done that, I'll try not to forget14:37
t1mpmy mistake14:37
mauricQ: WHAT ABOUT the HUB ?14:38
mhall119it was all t1mp's fault :)14:38
mhall119mauric: you mean HUD?14:38
mhall119mauric: they need design to figure out how it's going to be presented first, then they'll knowif the API needs to change or not14:39
mhall119oh, easy theme overrides would be awesome!14:40
mhall119zsombi: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?14:40
mhall119QUESTION: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?14:41
t1mpmauric: sorry for skipping your question. I agree with mhall119 on the answer14:42
mhall119t1mp: I tried to theme the Tabbar once, and I ended up having to duplicate a lot of components to get to it14:42
mhall119I didn't have to duplicate theme components, I had to duplicate things like Tabs, because otherwise you can't set properties on tabbar because you don't have access to that component from within your app14:45
anatolimhall119: what about bindings?14:46
mhall119anatoli: what about them?14:46
anatolimhall119: if you need to set properties on read-only components14:47
t1mpwe almost covered everything we wanted to cover14:49
t1mpso if you have more questions, shoot!14:49
mhall119anatoli: it's not that it was read-only, it's that it wasn't exposed, it was part of the inner workings of Tabs that i wasn't supposed to touch, but there was no other way to change it's style14:49
anatoli6 minutes to prepare tea, 3-2-1 go :-P14:54
mhall119thanks zsombi, t1mp14:54
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu UI toolkit questions and feedback | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22358/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-feedback/
aquariushey zsombi15:02
aquariuswatching the video stream :)15:02
anatolibig stuart is watching you :-P15:03
* aquarius laughs15:03
aquariust1mp, should I write questions/ideas now, or would you rather I waited until zsombor has explained list items?15:05
t1mpaquarius: now is good15:05
aquariusok, a few things15:05
t1mpaquarius: prefix with QUESTION so I find it easier if I have to scroll back later15:06
aquariusQUESTION: Page's "magic" handling of its child element is still really confusing; if I have one child element and it's a Flickable then everything works as expected, but what if I have two child elements? What if I have a Column which contains a button and then a ListView? It would be nice to explain the rules in detail and show how to do some common things.15:07
aquariusQUESTION: it would be lovely to see the upcoming roadmap as a list of things which are planned along with big green tick marks for whether they're done or not. This would help me to know that I shouldn't try using a component because you folks are going to completely change it a month from now :)15:08
nik90zsombi: stop teasing us with those awesome listitems and release them already :P15:16
* nik90 is impatient15:16
aquariusstop teasing us and *write the documentation and get it published* and *then* release them. :) I think that no SDK components should count as released until the docs are also published :)15:17
bzoltanaquarius: do not be worried. All released APIs are stable and will stay stable forever.15:17
aquariusbzoltan, what, like the toolbar? that works but is deprecated, as an example :)15:20
anatoliaquarius: and for good reason. the ux is really bad…15:20
aquariusyeah -- I am not sure if things like UbuntuListView are just a fun hack or whether I should be using it because ordinary ListViews are Not The Way To Go. That sort of thing.15:21
anatoli*nod* I can see how it can be confusing unless you know some internals already15:22
anatoli(for the record, it's not a fun hack, but it's there because ListView cannot easily be extended short of extending/ patching Qt)15:23
aquariusanatoli, it is a bad UX, I agree. But http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.ToolbarItems/ should say "DO NOT USE THIS, USE TOOLS IN THE HEADER" in massive red writing at the top, and it doesn't. It even links to design guidelines!15:23
aquariuszsombi, agreed about theming (which is why I'm not using it). I do *not* agree about documentation. Writing docs ought to be, I think, as important as tests, for the SDK, because the SDK's not useful to app devs like me unless it's documented :-)15:25
aquariusanyway, let someone else ask questions :)15:25
nik90QUESTION: (hoping this wasn't asked earlier) What's the ETA for theming documentation? I really would like to change the checkbox's color etc etc ...and don't want to create components for scratch just to do that.15:27
nik90I sort of just jumped into this session few minutes back, so hoping I am not just repeating what others asked already15:27
aquariust1mp, let me explain a worked example so you folks can suggest to me how I should build it. Imagine that I have a list (let's say, a list of people). I want to have a textbox at the top which filters the list, so when you type into the textbox the listview contents change to only those which match the text. If this were a non-Ubuntu app, then I'd anchor the textbox to the top of the page, and anchor the li15:30
aquariusstview to the bottom of the textbox and the bottom of the page. But what should I do in an Ubuntu app, which has its magical header?15:30
akiva-thinkpadhey all15:31
nik90hey akiva-thinkpad15:31
aquariust1mp, at the moment I have a button in the header which shows the text box *in the header*, which works, but that feels like a hack :)15:31
akiva-thinkpadnik90, is there a link to the hangout? Or this one private?15:32
nik90akiva-thinkpad: not sure, I just joined a few minutes ago15:32
* akiva-thinkpad had to do another session15:32
t1mpdo you guys want to join the hangout to ask questions?15:32
zbenjaminzsombi: how about the ColumnLayout with fillHeight: true15:32
akiva-thinkpadt1mp, yes15:32
akiva-thinkpadI don't care though15:33
akiva-thinkpadif they want questions here; I'm cool with that15:33
bzoltanaquarius: changes like the toolbar are something what initiated from outside of our team.15:33
t1mp^ you can join the hangout here15:33
nik90akiva-thinkpad: ?15:35
akiva-thinkpadthis doesnt seem like the hangout?15:35
* akiva-thinkpad wonders if I'm in the wrong place15:35
anatoliaquarius: how do you like this one? http://geraldfield.org/deprecatedToolbarItems.png15:35
t1mpakiva-thinkpad: we can see you15:35
nik90akiva-thinkpad: we can see you lol15:35
anatolino, it's a branch I just made :-)15:37
t1mpanatoli: ahhh...15:37
t1mpsorry I thought it was on the webpage like that now15:37
t1mpok, it should be the way anatoli made it :)15:37
nik90anatoli: it should be in red :P15:37
aquariusI'd put it in a coloured box -- seriously, it is hard to over-stress this :)15:37
t1mpanatoli: feel free to create a merge request from that branch :) propose for merging into lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging15:37
akiva-thinkpadokay I see it15:38
anatolit1mp: there you go https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/deprecatedToolbarItems/+merge/24170015:39
t1mpanatoli: you are christian?15:40
aquariusanatoli, http://screencloud.net/v/9hiq ? :)15:40
anatolit1mp: I can't use the same name in kiwi :-)15:40
t1mpanatoli: happroved15:41
aquariuszbenjamin, COlumnLayout doesn't have a fillHeight property?15:41
zbenjaminaquarius: it has a attachable property Layout.fillHeight15:41
anatoliaquarius: not doable. if you look at the merge request you'll see we only have this rtf-ish markup15:42
zbenjaminaquarius: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qml-qtquick-layouts-layout.html#fillHeight-prop15:42
anatoliaquarius: unless you can find some markup that would… but I don't believe that's possible15:42
aquariusanatoli, bah, that sucks :)15:42
* anatoli wonders if akiva lives on the sun15:43
aquariusopacity should be good performance? the gpu can handle it directly as a layer. If it's not good performance then the Qt people need a poke :)15:53
akiva-thinkpadcool beans15:53
aquariusthank you zsombi t1mp zbenjamin anatoli15:53
zsombiaquarius: any time dude :)15:53
anatolithank you akiva-thinkpad :-D15:53
nik90thxn for the session15:53
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | DocViewer Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22348/docviewer-planning/
aquariusI would very much like to see a trivial example of a QML Ubuntu app which has an always-on-screen textbox at the top and a listview which scrolls, in a Page. :)15:56
popey^^ docviewer app session hangout url15:59
popeysverzegnassi & akiva-thinkpad ^16:00
popeyeveryone welcome, of course :D16:00
sverzegnassipopey: not authorized to open16:00
popeyoh.. odd16:01
popeyjust invited you16:01
sverzegnassinot working16:02
akiva-thinkpadscheduling conflict16:02
popeysverzegnassi: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en ?16:03
popeyworks for rschroll ...16:03
popeyok akiva-thinkpad16:03
popeysverzegnassi: you signed into evil google?16:03
popeysverzegnassi: oh, you talking about the hangout or the etherpad?16:04
sverzegnassiinstalling the hangout package16:04
popeyyou need to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/ to use etherpad16:04
popeysorry, I'm being dumb ☻16:04
sverzegnassiYour membership is awaiting approval from one of this team's administrators.16:06
popeysverzegnassi: have pinged someone to get approved16:07
sverzegnassipopey: laptop crashed...16:08
popeyaw ☹16:12
sverzegnassi_popey: can you resend the link ?16:12
popeysverzegnassi_: ^16:12
sverzegnassi(witching pc)16:13
rschrollI've written a little PDF viewer based on JS and HTML, withrendering in Poppler16:49
rschrollDunno if it's relevant, but I'm happy to share16:49
rschrollit's in Closurescrpt, though. (Sorry)16:49
rschrollplugin for LightTable16:50
rschrollThe other thing -- any questions about how I handled things for epubs, I'm happy to answer16:50
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Roundtable: Creating a Theming Standard for QML | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22319/roundtable-creating-a-theming-standard-for-qml/
akiva-thinkpadhey all17:59
nik90akiva-thinkpad: hey18:09
akiva-thinkpadnik90, hey18:09
nik90akiva-thinkpad: do you need help setting up the hangout?18:09
nik90akiva-thinkpad: can you create a hangout on air and invite me to it?18:10
nik90akiva-thinkpad: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ18:13
akiva-thinkpadwere on air18:14
Letozaf_yeah I can see and hear you18:15
nik90feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ18:16
jdstrandI want to be able to theme :)18:17
jdstrandI'd like to be able to do more than choose light and dark themes. I'd like to in my app be able to set colors for the different components18:18
jdstrandah, downloadable themes-- I'm less interested in that18:19
jdstrandfyi, saville allows changing the theme via /custom, so the sdk is capable of doing it at some level18:19
nik90jdstrand: I have seen you trying to theme your application. Do you want to join the discussion?18:21
jdstrandwell, really all I need are docs and there is a bug for that. I'll hop on if there is something I can contribute18:21
ahayzencolours here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.UbuntuColors/18:25
gcolluranik90, there's very little documentation about android theming (cyanogen theming engine), but almost everything is customizable, you can even override an app styling18:41
nik90gcollura: can you join the hangout?18:41
nik90feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ18:41
gcolluranik90, I can't right now sorry :/18:43
nik90gcollura: ah no worries, but good to know that android allows you to override pretty much anything18:44
gcolluranik90, one thing, if you're curious, you can download a theme apk from google play, unzip it and see how themes are defined :)18:45
nik90gcollura: ah interesting..I will check it out18:45
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Writing unit tests for qml applications | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22396/writing-unit-tests-for-qml-applications/
dobeyis the stream not up yet?19:04
nik90we just got on air19:04
nik90hello :)19:04
* balloons waves to everyone19:09
* dkessel waves back while arguing with drupal19:10
balloonsI hope you can see the code well enough19:11
dkesselah. getting better.19:13
dobeyi think youtube is lying about "720p"19:13
dobeyeither that or it really sucks at scaling up to 4K19:13
dobeyblocks of a/v from nik90 seem to get dropped occasionally19:16
alecuQUESTION: what's your feeling regarding the reliability (or inversely, the breakability) of QML tests vs autopilot tests?19:26
dkessel+1 for TDD19:28
dobeyit's the difference between unit tests and integration tests19:32
dobeyqmltestrunner is for unit tests, and autopilot is for end-to-end integration tests19:33
dobey(and it's al-le-coo, not alex ;)19:33
balloonsalecu, ohh sorry mate!19:33
alecuno prob :-)19:34
dobeyeven for something like calculator, you want an autopilot test to catch breakage for things like "user tapped on number 9, but app didn't see it"19:40
mzanettidobey: you can do that perfectly fine with qmltestrunner19:41
mzanettihe'll show it now19:41
balloonsI would agree qmltestrunner works, but the idea of modeling the user would push me towards running it with autopilot19:43
balloonsstill, I wouldn't argue against any developer with a test suite :-19:43
balloonsfor the calc, I would probably have some label interactions, swiping, and history19:43
balloonsin autopilot tests that is19:44
balloonseverything else I would probably leave in qml at a lower level19:44
dobeywlel, i think the qml tests when you click a button in the test, it just does clicked() directly, but i think autopilot doing a click on a button, goes through the system input layer; whilch is what i meant19:45
dobeyi could be wrong, but i thought that's how autopilot worked19:46
mzanettidobey: is testing the system input layer in the scope of the clock app?19:47
mzanettior should there be a separate test suite for that?19:47
* DanChapman thinks that's pretty cool to watch!19:47
balloonsthere is an argument to be made for using OSK to input as well19:48
dobeymzanetti: not necessarily, but the calculator should provide the autopilot test that would be run by the systemwide smoke test suite19:48
mzanettiyeah. I think there should be an AP test suite for the OSK19:48
mzanettibut I don't think the clock app should fail because of a bug in the OSK19:48
dobeyie, the app should own the tets that drive the app19:48
mzanettiwhich is what happens with AP19:48
alecunik90: great work on the testing of the clock app; surely it must be one of the better tested parts of our system.19:49
dobeynik90: it's probably failing due to mir19:49
nik90alecu: thnx :)19:50
alecuballoons: nik90: mzanetti: thanks a lot for the session, it was very useful.19:51
dobeynik90: you can probably install xvfb on a phone and run under xvfb with no problem19:51
balloonsoO dobey thinking outside the box19:51
nik90dobey: ah interesting..I didn't think of that ..I can give it a shot19:51
mzanettialecu: there's an unlimited amount of qmltests in unity8, in case you need more examples19:52
alecumzanetti: good to know, thanks.19:52
dobeymzanetti: indeed. i wrote some of those too :)19:52
nik90alecu: Unity 8 is a treasure house for qml test cases. I would highly recommend it too.19:52
nik90I learnt a lot looking at them19:53
mzanettinik90: ah... we forgot to mention that you can run qmltests in qmlscene19:54
mzanettinik90: so you can manually execute the test plan in order to debug it19:54
dobeynik90: remember that the phone and emulator are confined, so if you want to run qmltestrunner and have it open up a connection to Mir with UI, it will probably fail, for the same reason you can't just run qmlscene for an app on the console over ssh19:54
nik90mzanetti: but only if you comment out the test case code?19:54
mzanettinik90: nope19:54
mzanettinik90: every unity8 test case can be run with "make testSomething" but also with "make trySomething" in order to open it up in qmlscene19:55
mzanettidobey: it works if you pass --desktop_file_hint=/some/file.desktop to qmltestrunner19:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
dobeynik90: if the unit tests are included in the click package, you can maybe provide a secondary .desktop file and "app" in the manifest, which is to run the qmltestrunner tests, have it be NoDisplay=true, and do ubuntu-app-launch to run that "app"19:56
nik90oooh cool19:56
nik90dobey: ah that's probably it failed for me when trying on the phone..because of the confinement19:56
mzanettinote that the .desktop file needs to be located /usr/share/applications/ at the moment... still haven't managed to get greyback to fix that19:56
mzanettiand you can also run qmlscene from command line by passing --desktop_file_hint19:57
mzanettiit'll run unconfined though...19:57
* balloons encourages nik90 to scoop up all these nuggets19:58
balloonsI didn't know those desktop file tricks.. never thought about doing that19:58
nik90balloons: I am copying these into a pad19:58
mzanettithe --desktop_file_hint is basically the replacement for bamf19:58
balloonsRIP bamf <319:58
mzanettinot sure if it'll stay forever, or if we come up with something more clever, but for now (and the foreseeable future) it should work fine19:59
dobeyan xvfb-but-mir would be nice to have19:59
mzanettimaybe exporting QPA_PLATFORM=minimal could help with that20:00
mzanettifor qt apps20:00
dobeyso "mirvfb-run foo"20:00
mzanettiymmv with that though20:00
dobeya virtual mir framebuffer would be nice for many other reasons too, though20:01
dobeysuch as to be able to run more complete tests in better confinement20:01
dobeynot just for qml, but to run autopilot and other tests confined to that vfb, and have it be mir instead of x20:01
balloonsdobey, that's a pipe dream to run outside of unity for instance, a seperate confined env20:02
dobeyyeah. right now, the only way to do it, is the emulator20:03
mzanettinot so sure about that... I guess if you stop the session load the mirserver qpa (instead of the client qpa) it should work just fine20:04
mzanettiobviously you'll lose unity8's portion of the confinement20:04
nik90dobey: In case you are interested in seeing the ouput of what I got the last time I tried running qmltestrunner on the phone, http://askubuntu.com/questions/515153/how-does-one-run-qml-tests-on-a-ubuntu-touch-phone20:10
nik90this time around I will try your approach of having a dedicated desktop file just to run qmltestrunner.20:10
nik90I am too sure about what needs to be changed in the manifest file. But I can look into this over the weekend and try out some stuff.20:11
dobeynik90: yeah, i think that's due to the wrapper that parses arguments like --desktop_file_hint on the phone20:12
dobeynik90: adding the qmltestrunner arguments after a "--" /might/ help, but not sure20:13
nik90I will give it a try later20:14

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