[14:02] <popey> t1mp: you're all set for this session?
[14:03] <t1mp> can people see us?
[14:03] <mhall119> says "starting soon"
[14:03] <mhall119> if you just started the broadcast, it takes a minute or two for the stream to catch up
[14:03] <t1mp> ok
[14:03] <mhall119> ok, video is streaming now \o/
[14:08] <mhall119> zsombi: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?
[14:09] <t1mp> if you want to ask a question, please prefix it with QUESTION: (caps) so it is easier for us to see it
[14:09] <mhall119> QUESTION: is Qt 5.3 binary compatible with 5.2? Or do compiled app need to be re-built?
[14:09]  * mhall119 should know better
[14:10] <mhall119> \o/
[14:11] <t1mp> :)
[14:11] <SidPayton> The Video is not working on my Ubuntu. Neither on Firefox nor Chrome. Thought maybe someone is having the same problems
[14:11] <cheesehead> Video working great here
[14:12] <SidPayton> It's working on my Android device :(
[14:13] <nik90> QUESTION: Is there a plan to include helper test functions to perform actions like clicking header buttons (interacting with other sdk components etc) in Ubuntu.Test?
[14:18] <nik90> t1mp, zsombi: Well I was recommended by other unity8 developers to use QML test suites for the clock app. As such I have started created helper functions for these.
[14:19] <anatoli> wasn't there a distinction saying what to do with which kind of tests? ie. unit tests for API, AP for UX
[14:29] <nik90> QUESTION: Would the header and pagestack animation make its way into rtm? Or are we talking about the future vivid cycle?
[14:34]  * balloons watching and reading scrollback on test helpers
[14:37] <mhall119> zsombi: the camera is stuck on you, click your thumbnail to un-highlight yourself and let us see t1mp
[14:37] <t1mp> mhall119: I should have done that, I'll try not to forget
[14:37] <t1mp> my mistake
[14:38] <mauric> Q: WHAT ABOUT the HUB ?
[14:38] <mhall119> it was all t1mp's fault :)
[14:38] <mhall119> mauric: you mean HUD?
[14:39] <mauric> yes
[14:39] <mhall119> mauric: they need design to figure out how it's going to be presented first, then they'll knowif the API needs to change or not
[14:40] <mhall119> oh, easy theme overrides would be awesome!
[14:40] <mhall119> zsombi: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?
[14:41] <mhall119> QUESTION: could we theme inner components also, like the header component inside a page or mainview?
[14:42] <t1mp> mauric: sorry for skipping your question. I agree with mhall119 on the answer
[14:42] <mhall119> t1mp: I tried to theme the Tabbar once, and I ended up having to duplicate a lot of components to get to it
[14:45] <mhall119> I didn't have to duplicate theme components, I had to duplicate things like Tabs, because otherwise you can't set properties on tabbar because you don't have access to that component from within your app
[14:46] <anatoli> mhall119: what about bindings?
[14:46] <mhall119> anatoli: what about them?
[14:47] <anatoli> mhall119: if you need to set properties on read-only components
[14:49] <t1mp> we almost covered everything we wanted to cover
[14:49] <t1mp> so if you have more questions, shoot!
[14:49] <mhall119> anatoli: it's not that it was read-only, it's that it wasn't exposed, it was part of the inner workings of Tabs that i wasn't supposed to touch, but there was no other way to change it's style
[14:54] <anatoli> 6 minutes to prepare tea, 3-2-1 go :-P
[14:54] <mhall119> thanks zsombi, t1mp
[15:02] <aquarius> hey zsombi
[15:02] <aquarius> watching the video stream :)
[15:03] <anatoli> big stuart is watching you :-P
[15:03]  * aquarius laughs
[15:05] <aquarius> t1mp, should I write questions/ideas now, or would you rather I waited until zsombor has explained list items?
[15:05] <t1mp> aquarius: now is good
[15:05] <aquarius> ok, a few things
[15:06] <t1mp> aquarius: prefix with QUESTION so I find it easier if I have to scroll back later
[15:07] <aquarius> QUESTION: Page's "magic" handling of its child element is still really confusing; if I have one child element and it's a Flickable then everything works as expected, but what if I have two child elements? What if I have a Column which contains a button and then a ListView? It would be nice to explain the rules in detail and show how to do some common things.
[15:08] <aquarius> QUESTION: it would be lovely to see the upcoming roadmap as a list of things which are planned along with big green tick marks for whether they're done or not. This would help me to know that I shouldn't try using a component because you folks are going to completely change it a month from now :)
[15:16] <nik90> zsombi: stop teasing us with those awesome listitems and release them already :P
[15:16] <aquarius> :)
[15:16]  * nik90 is impatient
[15:17] <aquarius> stop teasing us and *write the documentation and get it published* and *then* release them. :) I think that no SDK components should count as released until the docs are also published :)
[15:17] <bzoltan> aquarius: do not be worried. All released APIs are stable and will stay stable forever.
[15:20] <aquarius> bzoltan, what, like the toolbar? that works but is deprecated, as an example :)
[15:20] <anatoli> aquarius: and for good reason. the ux is really bad…
[15:21] <aquarius> yeah -- I am not sure if things like UbuntuListView are just a fun hack or whether I should be using it because ordinary ListViews are Not The Way To Go. That sort of thing.
[15:22] <anatoli> *nod* I can see how it can be confusing unless you know some internals already
[15:23] <anatoli> (for the record, it's not a fun hack, but it's there because ListView cannot easily be extended short of extending/ patching Qt)
[15:23] <aquarius> anatoli, it is a bad UX, I agree. But http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.ToolbarItems/ should say "DO NOT USE THIS, USE TOOLS IN THE HEADER" in massive red writing at the top, and it doesn't. It even links to design guidelines!
[15:25] <aquarius> zsombi, agreed about theming (which is why I'm not using it). I do *not* agree about documentation. Writing docs ought to be, I think, as important as tests, for the SDK, because the SDK's not useful to app devs like me unless it's documented :-)
[15:25] <aquarius> anyway, let someone else ask questions :)
[15:27] <nik90> QUESTION: (hoping this wasn't asked earlier) What's the ETA for theming documentation? I really would like to change the checkbox's color etc etc ...and don't want to create components for scratch just to do that.
[15:27] <nik90> I sort of just jumped into this session few minutes back, so hoping I am not just repeating what others asked already
[15:30] <aquarius> t1mp, let me explain a worked example so you folks can suggest to me how I should build it. Imagine that I have a list (let's say, a list of people). I want to have a textbox at the top which filters the list, so when you type into the textbox the listview contents change to only those which match the text. If this were a non-Ubuntu app, then I'd anchor the textbox to the top of the page, and anchor the li
[15:30] <aquarius> stview to the bottom of the textbox and the bottom of the page. But what should I do in an Ubuntu app, which has its magical header?
[15:31] <akiva-thinkpad> hey all
[15:31] <nik90> hey akiva-thinkpad
[15:31] <aquarius> t1mp, at the moment I have a button in the header which shows the text box *in the header*, which works, but that feels like a hack :)
[15:32] <akiva-thinkpad> nik90, is there a link to the hangout? Or this one private?
[15:32] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: not sure, I just joined a few minutes ago
[15:32] <akiva-thinkpad> same
[15:32]  * akiva-thinkpad had to do another session
[15:32] <t1mp> do you guys want to join the hangout to ask questions?
[15:32] <zbenjamin> zsombi: how about the ColumnLayout with fillHeight: true
[15:32] <akiva-thinkpad> t1mp, yes
[15:33] <akiva-thinkpad> I don't care though
[15:33] <akiva-thinkpad> if they want questions here; I'm cool with that
[15:33] <bzoltan> aquarius: changes like the toolbar are something what initiated from outside of our team.
[15:33] <t1mp> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdcgbUk_7a5upwBXy3vbPs0-naVKCG7ia1nZpxMo9GrshU1-g?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:33] <t1mp> ^ you can join the hangout here
[15:35] <akiva-thinkpad> erm?
[15:35] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: ?
[15:35] <akiva-thinkpad> this doesnt seem like the hangout?
[15:35]  * akiva-thinkpad wonders if I'm in the wrong place
[15:35] <anatoli> aquarius: how do you like this one? http://geraldfield.org/deprecatedToolbarItems.png
[15:35] <t1mp> akiva-thinkpad: we can see you
[15:35] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: we can see you lol
[15:37] <anatoli> no, it's a branch I just made :-)
[15:37] <t1mp> anatoli: ahhh...
[15:37] <t1mp> sorry I thought it was on the webpage like that now
[15:37] <akiva-thinkpad> ahhhh
[15:37] <t1mp> ok, it should be the way anatoli made it :)
[15:37] <nik90> anatoli: it should be in red :P
[15:37] <aquarius> I'd put it in a coloured box -- seriously, it is hard to over-stress this :)
[15:37] <t1mp> anatoli: feel free to create a merge request from that branch :) propose for merging into lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging
[15:38] <akiva-thinkpad> okay I see it
[15:38] <akiva-thinkpad> wierd
[15:39] <anatoli> t1mp: there you go https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/deprecatedToolbarItems/+merge/241700
[15:40] <t1mp> anatoli: you are christian?
[15:40] <aquarius> anatoli, http://screencloud.net/v/9hiq ? :)
[15:40] <anatoli> t1mp: I can't use the same name in kiwi :-)
[15:41] <t1mp> kiwi?
[15:41] <t1mp> anatoli: happroved
[15:41] <aquarius> zbenjamin, COlumnLayout doesn't have a fillHeight property?
[15:41] <zbenjamin> aquarius: it has a attachable property Layout.fillHeight
[15:42] <anatoli> aquarius: not doable. if you look at the merge request you'll see we only have this rtf-ish markup
[15:42] <zbenjamin> aquarius: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qml-qtquick-layouts-layout.html#fillHeight-prop
[15:42] <anatoli> aquarius: unless you can find some markup that would… but I don't believe that's possible
[15:42] <aquarius> anatoli, bah, that sucks :)
[15:43]  * anatoli wonders if akiva lives on the sun
[15:53] <aquarius> opacity should be good performance? the gpu can handle it directly as a layer. If it's not good performance then the Qt people need a poke :)
[15:53] <akiva-thinkpad> cool beans
[15:53] <aquarius> thank you zsombi t1mp zbenjamin anatoli
[15:53] <akiva-thinkpad> ;_;
[15:53] <anatoli> \o/
[15:53] <zsombi> aquarius: any time dude :)
[15:53] <anatoli> thank you akiva-thinkpad :-D
[15:53] <nik90> thxn for the session
[15:53] <nik90> bye
[15:53] <akiva-thinkpad> :D
[15:56] <aquarius> I would very much like to see a trivial example of a QML Ubuntu app which has an always-on-screen textbox at the top and a listview which scrolls, in a Page. :)
[15:59] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:59] <popey> ^^ docviewer app session hangout url
[16:00] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-docviewer-planning
[16:00] <popey> sverzegnassi & akiva-thinkpad ^
[16:00] <popey> everyone welcome, of course :D
[16:00] <sverzegnassi> popey: not authorized to open
[16:01] <popey> oh.. odd
[16:01] <popey> just invited you
[16:02] <sverzegnassi> not working
[16:02] <akiva-thinkpad> scheduling conflict
[16:03] <popey> sverzegnassi: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en ?
[16:03] <popey> works for rschroll ...
[16:03] <popey> ok akiva-thinkpad
[16:03] <popey> sverzegnassi: you signed into evil google?
[16:04] <popey> sverzegnassi: oh, you talking about the hangout or the etherpad?
[16:04] <sverzegnassi> installing the hangout package
[16:04] <popey> \o/
[16:04] <popey> you need to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/ to use etherpad
[16:04] <popey> sorry, I'm being dumb ☻
[16:06] <sverzegnassi> Your membership is awaiting approval from one of this team's administrators.
[16:07] <popey> sverzegnassi: have pinged someone to get approved
[16:08] <sverzegnassi> popey: laptop crashed...
[16:08] <popey> ☻
[16:12] <popey> aw ☹
[16:12] <sverzegnassi_> popey: can you resend the link ?
[16:12] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd-hIWkkKd3hW0YYsh2lQgY3wwu2orw1YS9JqInYZ0FEBlX7g?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:12] <popey> sverzegnassi_: ^
[16:13] <sverzegnassi> (witching pc)
[16:13] <swaveck> ppt
[16:14] <popey> https://www.calligra.org/
[16:25] <sverzegnassi_> https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/calligra
[16:29] <popey> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-office
[16:49] <rschroll> I'
[16:49] <rschroll> I've written a little PDF viewer based on JS and HTML, withrendering in Poppler
[16:49] <rschroll> Dunno if it's relevant, but I'm happy to share
[16:49] <rschroll> it's in Closurescrpt, though. (Sorry)
[16:49] <rschroll> https://github.com/rschroll/litex/blob/master/src/lt/plugins/litex-viewer.cljs
[16:50] <rschroll> plugin for LightTable
[16:50] <rschroll> (IDE)
[16:50] <rschroll> The other thing -- any questions about how I handled things for epubs, I'm happy to answer
[16:53] <popey> \o/
[17:59] <akiva-thinkpad> hey all
[18:05] <akiva-thinkpad> !ping
[18:09] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: hey
[18:09] <akiva-thinkpad> nik90, hey
[18:09] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: do you need help setting up the hangout?
[18:09] <akiva-thinkpad> yah,
[18:10] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: can you create a hangout on air and invite me to it?
[18:10] <akiva-thinkpad> sure
[18:10] <akiva-thinkpad> nik90,
[18:11] <akiva-thinkpad> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvsk6sdm7vbv7jcskfdtzngz2ea?hl=en-GB
[18:13] <nik90> akiva-thinkpad: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
[18:14] <akiva-thinkpad> were on air
[18:15] <DanChapman> o/
[18:15] <Letozaf_> yeah I can see and hear you
[18:15] <nik90> awesome
[18:16] <nik90> feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
[18:17] <jdstrand> yes!
[18:17] <jdstrand> I want to be able to theme :)
[18:18] <jdstrand> I'd like to be able to do more than choose light and dark themes. I'd like to in my app be able to set colors for the different components
[18:19] <jdstrand> ah, downloadable themes-- I'm less interested in that
[18:19] <jdstrand> fyi, saville allows changing the theme via /custom, so the sdk is capable of doing it at some level
[18:21] <nik90> jdstrand: I have seen you trying to theme your application. Do you want to join the discussion?
[18:21] <jdstrand> well, really all I need are docs and there is a bug for that. I'll hop on if there is something I can contribute
[18:24] <ahayzen> blue!
[18:25] <ahayzen> colours here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.UbuntuColors/
[18:28] <nik90> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-qt.html
[18:41] <gcollura> nik90, there's very little documentation about android theming (cyanogen theming engine), but almost everything is customizable, you can even override an app styling
[18:41] <nik90> gcollura: can you join the hangout?
[18:41] <nik90> feel free to join the hangout discussion at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYe4kpp16_DF--MNvUAQYBytGfjfNHUlKC4GmkjwXaZvJlMIzQ
[18:43] <gcollura> nik90, I can't right now sorry :/
[18:44] <nik90> gcollura: ah no worries, but good to know that android allows you to override pretty much anything
[18:45] <gcollura> nik90, one thing, if you're curious, you can download a theme apk from google play, unzip it and see how themes are defined :)
[18:45] <nik90> gcollura: ah interesting..I will check it out
[18:59] <akiva-thinkpad> thanks
[19:04] <dobey> is the stream not up yet?
[19:04] <nik90> we just got on air
[19:04] <alecu> hello!
[19:04] <nik90> hello :)
[19:09]  * balloons waves to everyone
[19:10]  * dkessel waves back while arguing with drupal
[19:11] <balloons> I hope you can see the code well enough
[19:13] <dkessel> nope
[19:13] <dkessel> ah. getting better.
[19:13] <dobey> i think youtube is lying about "720p"
[19:13] <dobey> either that or it really sucks at scaling up to 4K
[19:16] <dobey> blocks of a/v from nik90 seem to get dropped occasionally
[19:18] <dobey> again
[19:26] <alecu> QUESTION: what's your feeling regarding the reliability (or inversely, the breakability) of QML tests vs autopilot tests?
[19:28] <dkessel> +1 for TDD
[19:32] <dobey> it's the difference between unit tests and integration tests
[19:33] <dobey> qmltestrunner is for unit tests, and autopilot is for end-to-end integration tests
[19:33] <dobey> (and it's al-le-coo, not alex ;)
[19:33] <balloons> alecu, ohh sorry mate!
[19:34] <alecu> no prob :-)
[19:40] <dobey> even for something like calculator, you want an autopilot test to catch breakage for things like "user tapped on number 9, but app didn't see it"
[19:41] <mzanetti> dobey: you can do that perfectly fine with qmltestrunner
[19:41] <mzanetti> he'll show it now
[19:43] <balloons> I would agree qmltestrunner works, but the idea of modeling the user would push me towards running it with autopilot
[19:43] <balloons> still, I wouldn't argue against any developer with a test suite :-
[19:43] <balloons> for the calc, I would probably have some label interactions, swiping, and history
[19:44] <balloons> in autopilot tests that is
[19:44] <balloons> everything else I would probably leave in qml at a lower level
[19:45] <dobey> wlel, i think the qml tests when you click a button in the test, it just does clicked() directly, but i think autopilot doing a click on a button, goes through the system input layer; whilch is what i meant
[19:46] <dobey> i could be wrong, but i thought that's how autopilot worked
[19:47] <mzanetti> dobey: is testing the system input layer in the scope of the clock app?
[19:47] <mzanetti> or should there be a separate test suite for that?
[19:47]  * DanChapman thinks that's pretty cool to watch!
[19:48] <balloons> there is an argument to be made for using OSK to input as well
[19:48] <dobey> mzanetti: not necessarily, but the calculator should provide the autopilot test that would be run by the systemwide smoke test suite
[19:48] <mzanetti> yeah. I think there should be an AP test suite for the OSK
[19:48] <mzanetti> but I don't think the clock app should fail because of a bug in the OSK
[19:48] <dobey> ie, the app should own the tets that drive the app
[19:48] <mzanetti> which is what happens with AP
[19:49] <alecu> nik90: great work on the testing of the clock app; surely it must be one of the better tested parts of our system.
[19:49] <dobey> nik90: it's probably failing due to mir
[19:50] <nik90> alecu: thnx :)
[19:51] <alecu> balloons: nik90: mzanetti: thanks a lot for the session, it was very useful.
[19:51] <dobey> nik90: you can probably install xvfb on a phone and run under xvfb with no problem
[19:51] <balloons> oO dobey thinking outside the box
[19:51] <nik90> dobey: ah interesting..I didn't think of that ..I can give it a shot
[19:52] <mzanetti> alecu: there's an unlimited amount of qmltests in unity8, in case you need more examples
[19:52] <alecu> mzanetti: good to know, thanks.
[19:52] <dobey> mzanetti: indeed. i wrote some of those too :)
[19:52] <nik90> alecu: Unity 8 is a treasure house for qml test cases. I would highly recommend it too.
[19:53] <nik90> I learnt a lot looking at them
[19:54] <mzanetti> nik90: ah... we forgot to mention that you can run qmltests in qmlscene
[19:54] <mzanetti> nik90: so you can manually execute the test plan in order to debug it
[19:54] <dobey> nik90: remember that the phone and emulator are confined, so if you want to run qmltestrunner and have it open up a connection to Mir with UI, it will probably fail, for the same reason you can't just run qmlscene for an app on the console over ssh
[19:54] <nik90> mzanetti: but only if you comment out the test case code?
[19:54] <mzanetti> nik90: nope
[19:55] <mzanetti> nik90: every unity8 test case can be run with "make testSomething" but also with "make trySomething" in order to open it up in qmlscene
[19:55] <mzanetti> dobey: it works if you pass --desktop_file_hint=/some/file.desktop to qmltestrunner
[19:56] <dobey> nik90: if the unit tests are included in the click package, you can maybe provide a secondary .desktop file and "app" in the manifest, which is to run the qmltestrunner tests, have it be NoDisplay=true, and do ubuntu-app-launch to run that "app"
[19:56] <nik90> oooh cool
[19:56] <nik90> dobey: ah that's probably it failed for me when trying on the phone..because of the confinement
[19:56] <mzanetti> note that the .desktop file needs to be located /usr/share/applications/ at the moment... still haven't managed to get greyback to fix that
[19:56] <dobey> yep
[19:57] <mzanetti> and you can also run qmlscene from command line by passing --desktop_file_hint
[19:57] <mzanetti> it'll run unconfined though...
[19:58]  * balloons encourages nik90 to scoop up all these nuggets
[19:58] <balloons> I didn't know those desktop file tricks.. never thought about doing that
[19:58] <nik90> balloons: I am copying these into a pad
[19:58] <mzanetti> the --desktop_file_hint is basically the replacement for bamf
[19:58] <balloons> RIP bamf <3
[19:59] <mzanetti> not sure if it'll stay forever, or if we come up with something more clever, but for now (and the foreseeable future) it should work fine
[19:59] <dobey> an xvfb-but-mir would be nice to have
[20:00] <mzanetti> maybe exporting QPA_PLATFORM=minimal could help with that
[20:00] <mzanetti> for qt apps
[20:00] <dobey> so "mirvfb-run foo"
[20:00] <mzanetti> ymmv with that though
[20:01] <dobey> a virtual mir framebuffer would be nice for many other reasons too, though
[20:01] <dobey> such as to be able to run more complete tests in better confinement
[20:01] <dobey> not just for qml, but to run autopilot and other tests confined to that vfb, and have it be mir instead of x
[20:02] <balloons> dobey, that's a pipe dream to run outside of unity for instance, a seperate confined env
[20:03] <dobey> yeah. right now, the only way to do it, is the emulator
[20:04] <mzanetti> not so sure about that... I guess if you stop the session load the mirserver qpa (instead of the client qpa) it should work just fine
[20:04] <mzanetti> obviously you'll lose unity8's portion of the confinement
[20:10] <nik90> dobey: In case you are interested in seeing the ouput of what I got the last time I tried running qmltestrunner on the phone, http://askubuntu.com/questions/515153/how-does-one-run-qml-tests-on-a-ubuntu-touch-phone
[20:10] <nik90> this time around I will try your approach of having a dedicated desktop file just to run qmltestrunner.
[20:11] <nik90> I am too sure about what needs to be changed in the manifest file. But I can look into this over the weekend and try out some stuff.
[20:12] <dobey> nik90: yeah, i think that's due to the wrapper that parses arguments like --desktop_file_hint on the phone
[20:13] <dobey> nik90: adding the qmltestrunner arguments after a "--" /might/ help, but not sure
[20:14] <nik90> I will give it a try later