[13:56] <dholbach> dpm, I'll start the hangout
[13:56] <dpm> thanks dholbach
[13:56]  * dpm starts closing browser tabs...
[13:58] <dholbach> does anyone want to join the Community Roundtable hangout?
[13:58] <YoBoY> hi
[14:00] <dholbach> hello hello - anyone interested in joining the hangout?
[14:00] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYffDvJz-hdA2OtmYW4s_gM-uuVdH7t55w8M0yftAlUy-Zws2A
[14:01] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-roundtable
[14:09]  * popey stabs his webcam
[14:10] <dholbach> popey, hippie
[14:10] <dholbach> developer.ubuntu.com
[14:10] <dholbach> developer.ubuntu.com/api
[14:10] <popey> \o/
[14:10] <dholbach> myapps.developer.ubuntu.com
[14:11] <popey> sophie stole my headphones ☻
[14:11] <dholbach> popey, found a new pair?
[14:12] <popey> found them
[14:12] <popey> on her bed
[14:18]  * skellat arrives fairly late
[14:19] <YoBoY> +1 highlight more translation, documentation and the others
[14:19] <skellat> YoBoY: Will you be present for the ISO localization session?
[14:20] <YoBoY> I'll try
[14:28] <dholbach> more feedback from folks on IRC?
[14:32] <skellat> I've got nothing at the moment.  I've certainly nothing phone-related.
[14:32] <YoBoY> (sorry i have not followed, on phone at that time :\ feedback on what ?)
[14:33] <skellat> On-board/On-ramp
[14:33] <skellat> That's what dholbach is mentioning
[14:33] <skellat> ubuntu-lococouncil took some work items about that to a minor extent
[14:35] <skellat> Eventually we're going to have to rename LoCo Council to Social Affairs Council at this rate
[14:38] <skellat> :-)
[14:39]  * skellat may even be on-camera today...
[14:43] <ilya_> Hi
[14:52] <dholbach> dpm, I'll start the CC feedback session
[14:52] <dpm> dholbach, thanks, I'll start the scopes one
[14:54] <dholbach> ok
[15:00] <belkinsa> dholbach, can you invite me to the hangout as I'm on my tablet
[15:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[15:00] <mhall119> o/
[15:00] <belkinsa> o/
[15:00] <skellat> o/
[15:00] <belkinsa> I thought I was going to late but I'm not
[15:01]  * wxl swears
[15:01] <dholbach> let us know if you want to join the hangout
[15:01] <dholbach> notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-council-feedback
[15:02] <belkinsa> dholbach, invite me please
[15:02] <wxl> are you guys sure we can't swear while we wait? :)
[15:03] <mhall119> popey: are you available tojoin this one to discuss membership?
[15:04] <popey> mhall119: am in another session, sorry
[15:04] <belkinsa> That was mine who asked.
[15:04] <belkinsa> me*
[15:09] <dholbach> I'll start taking notes on http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-council-feedback
[15:09] <dholbach> please help
[15:12] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[15:13] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/FAQ maybe?
[15:13] <belkinsa> Yes.
[15:15] <YoBoY> in the past jono wrote an accomplishment app, perhaps we can use that at some point for the future ubuntu members (like the badges in other communities)
[15:16] <czajkowski> nods
[15:16] <czajkowski> crazy pug brb
[15:19] <rickspencer3> o/
[15:20] <belkinsa> Sorry that I didn't say anything but I think a developer would of had the better idea than a community-focused person
[15:23] <dholbach> belkinsa, you mean in terms of getting apps/charms people to apply for membership?
[15:23] <belkinsa> Yes.
[15:24] <dholbach> belkinsa, do you feel you'd need some more guidance to make a decision on applications from apps/charms people?
[15:24] <belkinsa> I don't know, I think this needs to be discussed with the Membership Board.
[15:25] <wxl> that's how i perceived membership for a while. it seemed more like a badge than anything else.
[15:25] <dholbach> belkinsa, I agree
[15:25] <ali1234> that's how i perceive it too
[15:25] <ali1234> i don't feel like i have anything at all in common with the ubuntu members
[15:25] <wxl> perceive*D* it, i said, just to be clear. :)
[15:25] <belkinsa> Perhaps, create some guidelines for what would count as good work with charms/apps
[15:25] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/#Ubuntu_Community
[15:26] <YoBoY> irc cloack and email alias are not fun anymore (who use that in the new generation ;) )
[15:26] <belkinsa> Discounted domains.
[15:26] <wxl> i was a contributor without being a member
[15:26] <YoBoY> (most of them don't know what are these things)
[15:26] <wxl> incidentially the *STUFF* didn't motivate me
[15:27] <ali1234> you get to vote on stuff
[15:27] <ali1234> nobody mentioned that?
[15:27] <ali1234> that's the biggest benefit IMO
[15:27] <wxl> i became a member because i felt like it said i'm here and not going to be going away anytime soon. when i moved into a place of leadership that's when i felt that was very important.
[15:28] <belkinsa> I agree with Rick about the community gatherings being different
[15:28] <ali1234> wxl: i don't even know who is a member and who isn't
[15:28] <wxl> ali1234: it's fairly easy to figure out. also if you're within a particular team, you tend to figure it out quickly. :)
[15:29] <belkinsa> mhall119, I agree.  But who will control the Planet Ubuntu if we didn't have Ubuntu Membership?
[15:29] <belkinsa> I mean who can have their blogs on Planet Ubuntu
[15:29] <wxl> i value the voting rights, too, although haven't been able to exercise those rights
[15:29] <skellat> wxl: Yet
[15:29] <wxl> skellat: right, which is why i said i value it
[15:30] <wxl> maybe the membership board could make it a point to discuss with the new members
[15:30] <ali1234> well, i don't see any value to being allowed to vote in a ballot i know i will lose
[15:30] <wxl> i realize that's a bit of extra overhead but it mgiht be a case of tl;dr :)
[15:30]  * belkinsa does think that having the Membership is kind of pointness now 
[15:30] <ali1234> hence why i said before "i don't feel like i have anything in common with ubuntu members"
[15:30] <belkinsa> Of course some of the perks are nice/
[15:31] <dholbach> does anyone of you want to join the hangout?
[15:31] <wxl> i can't quite yet. not on utc here :)
[15:31] <dholbach> ok :)
[15:31] <belkinsa> skellat, we haven' t had any applicants for the last two meetings.
[15:31] <wxl> brb
[15:32] <czajkowski> belkinsa: why do you think it's pointless?
[15:32] <czajkowski> what's missing
[15:32] <czajkowski> or what do you think it's not worth doing?
[15:32] <YoBoY> belkinsa, some french members are writng their page, I'll try to provide you with new applicants very soon ;)
[15:33] <belkinsa> I think it's what dholbach said about the recognition is kind of of gone.  Having that @ubuntu.com e-mail address is kind of not worth it.
[15:33] <skellat> belkinsa: I didn't know you haven't had applicants.  We can work on that.
[15:33] <belkinsa> Sure, I get more readers of my blog but nothing else is worth it
[15:33] <wxl> i don't feel like the recognition is gone
[15:33] <belkinsa> skellat, we have one for the next one
[15:34] <belkinsa> wxl, depends where you are, I guess.
[15:34] <cm-t> belkinsa: I think the @ubuntu.com is a good thing (but when I try to motivate our mate at ubuntu-fr to pass the member status, they said "we have already  a @ubuntu-fr.org"
[15:34] <cm-t> (hi)
[15:34] <wxl> i do think, if i may, a lot of people are confused by the direction of ubuntu in light of canonical's guidance.
[15:34] <belkinsa> +1
[15:35] <ali1234> the reason people are going to reddit and G+ is precisely to get away from the bureaucracy of ubuntu members and community councils, and yes the code of conduct
[15:35] <dholbach> wxl, can you expand? are you worried that new contributors feel like "only Canonical drives this project"?
[15:35] <dholbach> ali1234, which bureaucracy?
[15:36] <wxl> dholbach: yes. like it appears to me that many decisions are motivated by trying to make a profit.
[15:36] <wxl> dholbach: for example, uds as a real thing is gone.
[15:37] <wxl> skellat: we need geek merit badges!
[15:37] <belkinsa> skellat, I love that idea!
[15:37] <wxl> nerd merit badges i mean http://www.nerdmeritbadges.com/
[15:37] <linuxtech> Can we do something about security of the universe archives?  See http://axs.org/Security_of_the_Ubuntu_Universe_Archives.html for one suggestion.  I think this is something the Community Council should take the lead on!
[15:38] <dholbach> fair enough, but a lot of things stayed the same: it's still an open project, it's still open for contributions from everyone, it's still free and there are a lot of different teams who all try to achieve something different with Ubuntu - maybe it'd help to see where Canonical's drive to make a profit actually stops new contributors from contributing (or makes it harder)
[15:38] <dholbach> linuxtech, that's more of a question for the tech board
[15:38] <ali1234> dholbach: the process for becoming an ubuntu member is very bureaucratic in itself, when compared with actually making those contributions
[15:38] <dholbach> linuxtech, or something to discuss on one of the development mailing lists
[15:39] <dholbach> ali1234, really? it's about documenting your achievements, asking for endorsements and attending a meeting
[15:39] <wxl> dholbach: it's a question of direction. obviously ubuntu hasn't changed, but that decisions are made based on trying to make a profit.
[15:40] <dholbach> wxl, like which? it's important to have specific cases to talk about
[15:40] <belkinsa> 2000? Wow.  I never thought about the numbers being that large.
[15:40] <skellat> Large space needed to fit that many people in
[15:40] <wxl> dholbach: first i should be clear that i'm not necessarily complaining about this. i'm not sure whether or not it's true.
[15:41] <ali1234> dholbach: yes, that's too much for most people. just sounds like writing a CV and going to a job interview to me.
[15:41] <dholbach> wxl, right... I'm interested in it too - that's why I asked :)
[15:41] <linuxtech> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-November/002025.html but no response about my suggestion.   I may be wrong, but my impression is no one wants to take responsibility for the issue, or they think it is someone else's.
[15:41] <ali1234> i don't want a second job
[15:41] <wxl> dholbach: the example that was given to me was uds
[15:41] <wxl> dholbach: anything beyond that is conjecture on my part so i'll keep that to myself :)
[15:41] <dholbach> ali1234, right... personally - I think it's fair enough to ask for some documentation of your work
[15:42] <ali1234> dholbach: sure, i agree, you shouldn't just let anyone be a member
[15:42] <wxl> i do think the "bureaucracy" is very important
[15:42] <wxl> +1 on a weekend event, whatever it may be!!!!
[15:42] <wxl> (i never heard anything about a call for feedback for dates)
[15:42] <dholbach> wxl, in applying for Ubuntu membership bureaucracy in generally?
[15:43] <ali1234> maybe you should just bestow it on people instead of making them apply
[15:43] <mhall119> wxl: it was sent to a bunch of mL's and blogged about
[15:43] <ali1234> "hey you! you're an ubuntu member now!"
[15:43] <wxl> dholbach: i was responding more to ali1234.
[15:43] <dholbach> wxl, ahh ok
[15:45] <wxl> mhall119: which mls? i didn't see anything on the places i usually contribute. including #ubuntu-quality where balloons tends to usually forward things around
[15:46] <mhall119> wxl: community-annouce, devel (or devel-discuss), i think loco-contacts..can't remember where else
[15:46] <wxl> ok i guess i need to join community-announce :)
[15:46] <mhall119> yup :)
[15:47] <wxl> i'm sorry what i have to bring doesn't have more specific examples, but i've just heard it from a couple folks, that's all.
[15:48] <skellat> wxl: You're not the only LoCo leader who has heard it.  I've heard much the same in my capacity as Ohio leader.
[15:48] <skellat> My response is that if folks don't like it, get off the sidelines and participate in governance.
[15:49] <wxl> NOT calling it UDS might help to get the community involved :)
[15:49] <elfy> hi CC
[15:49] <linuxtech> DC is too expensive...
[15:50] <rickspencer3> linuxtech, sorry, I was joking, I happen to live in DC
[15:50] <rickspencer3> :)
[15:50] <skellat> rickspencer3: Could you please stick around for the ISO localization session that follows?  Your input would be invaluable.
[15:50] <skellat> Bye bye rickspencer3
[15:50] <rickspencer3> skellat, ooh, that will be tough for me, I have a call that I really need to go to
[15:50] <rickspencer3> skellat, is pitti going to that session?
[15:51] <rickspencer3> I know that he wrote a tool a few years ago to support that
[15:51] <rickspencer3> also, willcooke, should be htere
[15:51] <skellat> rickspencer3: I'm not sure.  I may need to ping him.
[15:51] <rickspencer3> skellat, how about i I keep irc open?
[15:51] <YoBoY> thanks
[15:51] <cm-t> thanks you
[15:51] <skellat> Excellent
[15:51] <belkinsa> Thanks guys for this session
[15:51]  * rickspencer3 hates to multi-task
[15:51] <rickspencer3> bonjour YoBoY :)
[15:51] <wxl> time for swearing :)
[15:51] <YoBoY> bonjour rickspencer3 :)
[15:52] <YoBoY> (also ate to multi task :D)
[15:52] <wxl> thanks everyone
[15:52]  * skellat ducks out to refill his coffee cup before the next session
[15:53] <dholbach> dpm, which session do you want me to start?
[15:54] <dpm> dholbach, I don't mind, pick one :)
[15:57] <dholbach> dpm, no, you pick one :-P
[15:57] <dpm> hahaha
[15:57] <dpm> dholbach, ok, so to stay on the same room, you can start the iso one and I the incentives one
[15:58] <dholbach> alll rightie
[15:59] <cm-t> hi
[15:59]  * skellat has no "Join This Hangout" link :-\
[15:59] <dholbach> belkinsa, ah... you started the session already?
[16:00] <belkinsa> dholbach, not yet
[16:00] <dholbach> or somebody did
[16:00] <belkinsa> I thought you were doing that one
[16:00] <belkinsa> akiva's one
[16:00] <dholbach> akiva's in community-2
[16:01] <belkinsa> Yeah, I thought you were going to do it
[16:01] <dholbach> ok
[16:01] <dholbach> it's started already
[16:02] <Mirv> where?
[16:02] <Mirv> and/or invite pls :)
[16:02] <YoBoY> +1
[16:03] <Mirv> dholbach: ?
[16:03] <dholbach> Mirv, YoBoY: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYekXqiF8m__ppYq00OXaZYmXGyVvkw249S9jneN9Ixx5le9Bg
[16:03] <Mirv> yay
[16:03] <dholbach> hum
[16:03] <dholbach> sorry
[16:03] <dholbach> wrong link
[16:04] <dholbach> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYekXqiF8m__ppYq00OXaZYmXGyVvkw249S9jneN9Ixx5le9Bg
[16:05] <dholbach> Mirv, cm-t: do we need anyone else for this session?
[16:07] <cm-t> I've receive a email (ubuntu-devel) where fumihito say they have in japan a script to build it, work with UEFI but without secure boot
[16:07] <dholbach> cm-t, ok
[16:08] <dholbach> I just pinged people on #ubuntu-locoteams
[16:12] <morphee> cm-t i'm here if you whant
[16:12] <cm-t> yes
[16:12] <cm-t> come on hangout if you can
[16:12] <morphee> no i can't
[16:14] <dholbach> do we have a list of bugs for the issues you were mentioning?
[16:14] <dholbach> or where these issues would need to get fixed?
[16:14] <morphee> we use the command xorriso to do a ISO
[16:14] <dholbach> Mirv, would you know where the UEFI issues might come from?
[16:16] <YoBoY> morphee, do we use a script with that ? there is some place with it in ? (bzr or git or something else)
[16:17] <YoBoY> (if not we have to fix that morphee ;) )
[16:17] <Mirv> dholbach: no, maybe the signed bootloaders/kernels being talked about. and my way bypasses it since it doesn't touch those parts but just modifies the official .iso by hand.
[16:17] <Mirv> maybe the "real building" of .iso is then more complicated and doesn't set all the right bits
[16:17] <Mirv> I'm happy/lucky that my method happens to work
[16:18] <morphee> we have a script but not on a website
[16:18] <cm-t> innocent question: if we can have a grub, dos that mean it is booted? (this would be helpfull to have many iso arch/flavour in one bootable device)
[16:26] <YoBoY> an old project https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Oneiric/LocalizedCDImageTools
[16:26] <dholbach> I added the works items on the bottom of http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-development-1411-iso-l10n-uefi
[16:26] <Mirv> YoBoY: yeah, I remember that!
[16:27] <dholbach> morphee, do you have any more feedback? or issues we should talk about=
[16:27] <dholbach> ?
[16:27] <YoBoY> (not working for 64bits uefi iso ;) )
[16:28] <morphee> the script we have and timo have work in BIOS et UEFI in USB but NOT work in DVD
[16:28] <YoBoY> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage << the cdimage project
[16:29] <au-s> Tablets? 5 years away?
[16:29] <dholbach> au-s, eh?
[16:30] <dholbach> au-s, we are currently in http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22380/development-1411-iso-l10n-uefi/ :)
[16:41] <vars> this is still going?
[16:41] <skellat> Yes
[16:42] <vars> ok cool:)
[16:46] <Mirv> now finishing up
[16:49] <vars> ubuntu membership?
[16:49] <vars> i dont follow...
[16:52] <YoBoY> thanks everyone :)
[16:52] <vars> how can i contribute into collaboration, for apps...
[16:54] <vars> I am waiting... :) for the release
[16:55] <vars> haha nah
[16:56] <vars> thank you
[17:04] <Mirv> vars: ah, you may have wanted to be in #ubuntu-uds-community-2 which had the "Creating better incentives to contribute to Ubuntu" session?
[17:04] <Mirv> vars: this session that ended was the another Community session "ISO with l10n preloaded fro LoCo + UEFI"
[17:06] <Mirv> I would have additionally noted that the log is at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/13/%23ubuntu-uds-community-2.html#t16:01 , but he left
[17:28] <belkinsa> dholbach, are you planning to talk in the Ubuntu Women Vivid Goals session?
[17:43] <dholbach> belkinsa, no, i filed the appdev code examples
[17:44] <dholbach> dpm, ^
[17:44] <belkinsa> AH, I see.
[17:44] <belkinsa> But we have figured out what to do.
[17:46] <dpm> dholbach, belkinsa, I'll be at the code examples one too
[17:46] <dpm> just trying to set up a demo
[17:46] <dpm> not sure I'll get it to run
[17:46] <belkinsa> Don't worry, we are doing all via IRC
[17:47] <dholbach> ok
[17:50] <belkinsa> Please note that this session will be done ONLY in IRC.
[17:51] <belkinsa> Pad notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-1411-ubuntuwomen
[17:52] <belkinsa> Please note that this session will be done ONLY in IRC.
[17:52] <belkinsa> Pad notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-1411-ubuntuwomen
[17:56] <belkinsa> Pad notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-1411-ubuntuwomen
[17:56] <belkinsa> Please note that this session will be done ONLY in IRC.
[17:56] <belkinsa> Sorry, just doing it for the newcomers
[17:58] <belkinsa> belkinsa_ is the nick I'm using as I can see the notes
[17:59] <belkinsa_> Okay, we will start in a minute
[17:59] <belkinsa> Pad notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-community-1411-ubuntuwomen
[17:59] <belkinsa> Sorry, just doing it for the newcomers
[17:59] <belkinsa> Sorry, just doing it for the newcomers
[17:59] <belkinsa> Please note that this session will be done ONLY in IRC.
[18:00] <belkinsa> Sorry, ^^^ that's what I meant and we starting
[18:00] <belkinsa_> Who is all for the Ubuntu Women Vivid Goals session?
[18:01] <belkinsa_> Alright.
[18:01] <belkinsa_> We will start with popey's item that he wanted to talk about.
[18:01]  * belkinsa_ turns the mic to popey
[18:02] <popey> Heya!
[18:03] <popey> So for those that don't know I'm Alan Pope, and I work for Canonical on apps for the upcoming Ubuntu phone
[18:03] <popey> We have a community of people creating apps for the phone including music, calendar, clock, calculator, weather, rss reader, note taking app and so on...
[18:03] <popey> however so far all the developers we have are guys.
[18:04] <popey> We do have some women who have contributed - namely Carla has done some awesome work on the QA side
[18:04] <popey> so we have a lot of autopilot test coverage thanks to her.
[18:04] <popey> I'd like to improve our diversity of developers in core apps.
[18:04] <popey> Wanted to know from the experts what I should be doing to achieve that?
[18:05] <popey> Specific things I should or should not be doing.
[18:05] <popey> Groups to reach out to, etc.
[18:05] <belkinsa> We do have developers in Ubuntu Women but it seems that they are softspoken in the group.
[18:07] <belkinsa> But maybe we can get more women into helping the Ubuntu Phone/Tablet project just as Carla has.
[18:08] <belkinsa> I don't have any ideas on what we can do but I think we can ask Carla to help us.
[18:09] <belkinsa> I don't know if she is subscribed to the list but I can CC the e-mail that will be sent to the mailing-list
[18:09] <Pendulum> We do get job notifications on the mailing list sometimes. It's worth putting out a general call/reminder because I'm not sure that everyone who is on the list actually looks for updates
[18:10] <Pendulum> *website updates
[18:10] <popey> Hm, I do like the idea of inviting via the mailing list..
[18:10] <akk> I don't generally see many calls for developers to get involved, so just asking might be a start.
[18:10] <Pendulum> It seems to me like we need a list of resources for this sort of thing, either projects that are specifically looking for more women or a list of resources for recruiting more women.
[18:11] <belkinsa_> I like that idea
[18:11] <popey> If I craft a mail, can I ask someone to proof read it for me before it goes to the list.
[18:11] <Pendulum> If we make a decision on which list we'd rather do, I can take the lead on researching/compiling the list
[18:11] <popey> I am not subscribed to the list, do I need to, or will a moderator let it through?
[18:11] <belkinsa_> Sure, I'm welcome to help
[18:11] <Pendulum> popey: feel free to send it to me.
[18:12] <popey> \o/
[18:12] <akk> For phone projects specifically, it would help to make it clear how to get involved -- like, is the hardware available, how much is it etc.
[18:12] <Pendulum> A mod should let it through :)
[18:12] <popey> There's a work item right there
[18:12] <popey> ok.
[18:13] <belkinsa_> popey, item added
[18:13] <popey> \o/ thanks
[18:14] <popey> that was all I had
[18:14] <Pendulum> For those who aren't in the etherpad, I gave myself an action to work on a resource list
[18:14] <belkinsa_> Thanks popey and this is a great project that UW can do
[18:15] <belkinsa_> Our next topic is the Orientation Quiz
[18:15] <belkinsa_> http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2014/08/calling-for-testers-for-orientation-quiz/
[18:15] <belkinsa_>     Working version of martix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ds5VKE9Dj-mYJnJ459YQk9DDdJ_ihZFJT-23jr4XV9c/edit
[18:16] <belkinsa_> The matrix has grown from the basic one and I think this one is needed since there many paths for different people.
[18:17] <belkinsa_> I think we need to keep on tweak it now
[18:20] <belkinsa> [13:17] <akk> Does anybody else see "Orientation Quiz" and think "Why do they care about my sexual orientation?"
[18:20] <belkinsa> [13:17] <akk> I have to remind myself every time that they mean something else.
[18:20] <belkinsa> [13:18] <belkinsa> Maybe it's the wrong name for it for sure
[18:20] <belkinsa> [13:20] <akk> "quiz" is wrong too, I think it's meant to be a questionnaire?
[18:20] <belkinsa> [13:20] <akk> not something to test yourself on
[18:21] <belkinsa_> I do think Questionnaire might might be a better name.
[18:22] <Pendulum> I think "Questionnaire" works better. We do need to make sure it's clear that it's purely for the user to gain ideas and that the info isn't anything that is being collected, nor is it required to do
[18:23]  * belkinsa_ nods
[18:23] <belkinsa_> I can take the action item for reaming it
[18:24] <akk> I just tried the quiz/questionnaire, and it shunts me straight into documentation
[18:24] <akk> never asking whether I'm a developer
[18:24] <belkinsa_> With a differnt martix (a working one): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ds5VKE9Dj-mYJnJ459YQk9DDdJ_ihZFJT-23jr4XV9c/edit#gid=0
[18:24] <belkinsa_> But we do need that question in that one
[18:26] <belkinsa_> Who wants to take that item?  I can do it if no one wants it?
[18:28]  * belkinsa_ takes it
[18:28] <belkinsa_> And added it and the rename one also
[18:29] <belkinsa_> Okay, anything else?
[18:31] <belkinsa_> Okay, is it safe to move on?
[18:32] <belkinsa_> Okay, the next topic is:
[18:32] <belkinsa_> Project Harvest
[18:32] <belkinsa_>     http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ProjectHarvest
[18:32] <belkinsa_>     Svetlana Belkin (belkinsa) is still working on getting a bug sprint for the bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/harvest/+bugs): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2014-October/004225.html
[18:32] <belkinsa_>     Getting a date and a time for the sprint can be done during the session
[18:32] <belkinsa_>     I brought up Harvest in this session: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22369/community-1411-ubuntuwomen/
[18:33] <belkinsa_> As I said, lets try to get a date and time in the session for the sprint, if possible
[18:33] <belkinsa_> Or a range of times and dates
[18:33] <belkinsa_> At least
[18:35] <belkinsa_> Guys?  Are you there?
[18:36] <Pendulum> what is the sprint actually for? just testing or fixing? or both?
[18:37] <belkinsa_> I think testing them to see if they are still worthwhile to fix.  Then later on we can find the developers as in Phase 2 to get the fixed as another sprint.
[18:37] <belkinsa_> No, testing for sure.
[18:38] <belkinsa_> I guess this maybe better do it via mailing-list since we have more there than here
[18:39] <Pendulum> I think mailing list is good.
[18:39] <belkinsa_> Okay, I will take that item.
[18:39] <Mikaela> there are also some who are here, but not at mailing list
[18:40] <Pendulum> Also, it's worth asking other projects who do sprints if they have any advice on when is good. For example, in my mind it would be hard to get people to show up between now and January, but that could be wrong.
[18:41] <belkinsa_> No, Pendulum, you are right.  So, I think we can aim for Feb.
[18:41] <Pendulum> Late January/early Feb is definitely a time that's quiet for most people
[18:42] <belkinsa_> So late Feb and on will work?
[18:43] <Pendulum> I know most other Ubuntu groups that do sprints are more tied into specific times in the release cycle, but they still may have ideas for what time of year (or time of month) tends to be the most successful
[18:43] <Pendulum> I think late January and on will work.
[18:44] <belkinsa_> Okay, thanks
[18:45] <belkinsa_> I might need to look in what others are doing in terms of sprints then
[18:46] <belkinsa_> We have 10 minutes left and one topic left.  Should we move on?
[18:46] <Pendulum> IMO, when you go to the UW mailing list, give a little bit of a deadline for when you need feedback by. Once you're past that date, pull the replies together and if there isn't a clear best weekend/set of days, just pick one that looks like it works in general.
[18:46] <Pendulum> now I'm done :)
[18:46] <dholbach> dpm, mhall119, popey, balloons: who does which session?
[18:46] <dholbach> I'm asking because of the community q&a
[18:47] <balloons> dholbach, I'm in app-dev now
[18:47] <balloons> well, in 10 mins
[18:47] <mhall119> I was going to be in the community Q&A
[18:47] <belkinsa_> Alright, I will keep that in mine
[18:47] <belkinsa_> mind*
[18:47] <dholbach> mhall119, can the MATE and Lubuntu folks create their own hangouts, etc.?
[18:47] <belkinsa_> It's clearly something that I need to do
[18:47] <mhall119> I'd imagine popey wants to be in the MAte session
[18:47] <dholbach> if not, I'd be happy to host for them
[18:47] <dpm> yeah, I was planning to be at the Q&A too if someone can run the other community track hangouts
[18:47] <mhall119> dholbach: we're not stopping them, if they have their google accounts setup to do it
[18:47] <belkinsa_> I think the Lubuntu folks have created it already
[18:48] <dpm> oh awesome
[18:48] <belkinsa_> Anyways...
[18:48] <dholbach> in that case: rock and roll
[18:48] <belkinsa_> I think maybe a random idea for a another project, but we may too many on hand at the moment
[18:48] <belkinsa_> Some Collaboration Project between UW and Ubuntu Scientists
[18:48] <belkinsa_>     https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2014-October/004226.html
[18:48] <belkinsa_>     https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-scientists
[18:49] <belkinsa_> I think this should be for the next cycle in order for us to finish the other two projects.
[18:49] <dholbach> I'll let people know about the Q&A on the social media channels
[18:50] <belkinsa_> How does that sound to everyone?
[18:50] <belkinsa_> This the blueprint for this cycle as I forgotten to post the link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/community-1411-ubuntuwomen
[18:51] <Pendulum> I think putting that off is probably good. Harvest & the questionnaire are still big projects to be worked on
[18:51] <belkinsa_> And it will give me time to think on what to do with the other team, when I get them going again
[18:52] <Pendulum> I think it also may need more definition when it's next presented, but if it works successfully it might be something that can then also be done with projects looking for more women in the future
[18:52]  * belkinsa_ nods
[18:53] <belkinsa_> Okay, as we are running out of time.  I thank you for everyone for joining and having a successful session.
[18:53] <dholbach> dpm, mhall119: anyone of you creating the hangout?
[18:53] <belkinsa_> And understanding that we did it viaIRC.
[18:54] <mhall119> dholbach: I'm creating the one in -users-1
[18:54] <dholbach> rock on
[18:55]  * popey pings flexiondotorg 
[18:55]  * flexiondotorg pongs popey 
[18:55] <popey> \o/
[18:55]  * popey sets us up the bomb
[18:57] <popey> flexiondotorg: invited you to the hangout
[18:57] <ali1234> oh, ubuntu mate :)
[18:57]  * flexiondotorg accepted
[18:57] <popey> :D
[18:58] <popey> can't see you ☹
[18:59] <flexiondotorg> I'm not in your G+ profile for Canonical.
[18:59] <flexiondotorg> I just added you.
[18:59] <popey> you dont need to be
[18:59] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfP_9VFawKz7vCMPVblvzREY3OEm7rY9Rqw0qMDuv38gsXZXw?authuser=0&hl=en
[18:59] <popey> should work
[18:59] <jose> popey: now hangout's got a feature that won't let explicitly invited people join, or had last time I hosted one
[18:59] <popey> odd
[19:00] <popey> stupid google
[19:00] <popey> flexiondotorg: can't hear you...
[19:01] <popey> heh, computer issues
[19:02] <flexiondotorg> popey, Send that again please.
[19:02] <popey> k
[19:03] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-ubuntu-mate-remix
[19:16] <ali1234> yes, many times i have wished i could report bugs against ppa packages
[19:16] <elfy> +1 to that
[19:17] <popey> flexiondotorg: guessing your pc crashed?
[19:17] <ali1234> because DBTS sucks :)
[19:17] <flexiondotorg> popey, I've lost you.
[19:17] <flexiondotorg> Not just me then.
[19:17] <popey> I'm still there.
[19:17] <popey> i think i am anyway, just refresh the page
[19:17] <ali1234> i see popey trying to fill dead air...
[19:18] <flexiondotorg> popey, No. Just the link is bad.
[19:19] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfP_9VFawKz7vCMPVblvzREY3OEm7rY9Rqw0qMDuv38gsXZXw?authuser=0&hl=en
[19:19] <popey> should work.
[19:19] <popey> shall we revert to using irc?
[19:19] <linuxtech> I tried mate on trusty and it would just spawn lots and lots of processes, probably something to do with an old gnome profile...
[19:19] <flexiondotorg> OK
[19:20] <popey> ok, killed the hangout, sorry.
[19:20] <popey> Ok. So, we need a page on the site linking to the projects where users can file bugs?
[19:21] <popey> we won't have launchpad projects for all the packages
[19:21] <popey> so do you just want the bugs in the ubuntu-mate-remix project?
[19:21] <flexiondotorg> Stream is just telling me to "Please wait."
[19:21] <flexiondotorg> linuxtech, You can't run MATE from the official 14.04 archive. It is busted.
[19:21] <flexiondotorg> popey, I can add that. I think it might already be there.
[19:21] <linuxtech> I used the PPA
[19:21] <popey> there's one link, yes
[19:21] <popey> https://ubuntu-mate.org/community/
[19:21] <popey> " Ubuntu MATE Bug Tracker - Bugs! We love to squish 'em."
[19:23] <flexiondotorg> https://ubuntu-mate.org/ Is the starting point
[19:23] <flexiondotorg> popey, Is this getting through?
[19:23] <popey> yes
[19:23] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate - This bug tracker is the one to use.
[19:23] <popey> your internet tubes seem clogged ☻
[19:23] <popey> right, yes.
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> All good.
[19:24] <popey> Ok, so assuming we have users filing bugs, you will then forward them to debian bts? and link to the upstream bugs?
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> I will
[19:24] <popey> seems like a bit of work, but at least it gives us a filter
[19:24] <popey> and stops people havin to use BTS
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> Mike Gabriel the Debai nDeveloper is on the Ubuntu MATE team and has access to LP.
[19:24] <popey> Ok, good.
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> We are working together on this and cross referecning already.
[19:25] <popey> Have you started building vivid ISO images?
[19:25] <flexiondotorg> popey, No.
[19:25] <popey> Ok.
[19:25] <flexiondotorg> I want to focus on getting everything in to Ubuntu proper.
[19:25] <popey> Do we even want to do that?
[19:25] <popey> Exactly
[19:25] <flexiondotorg> And use the official build infrastructure.
[19:25] <popey> I think it might be better not to even bother.
[19:25] <popey> yes, +1
[19:25] <flexiondotorg> I'll be wasting time maintaining my stuff.
[19:26] <ali1234> people seem to be prefering the LTS anyway these days
[19:26] <flexiondotorg> However, MATE packages are one thing.
[19:26] <flexiondotorg> We need to get the Ubuntu MATE specific package into the official archive too.
[19:26] <flexiondotorg> Which I require sponsors for.
[19:26] <popey> Yeah, but getting in 15.04 gives us the stepping stone towards 16.04 LTS
[19:26] <popey> flexiondotorg: dholbach has offered to help.
[19:27] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, Has been very helpful already.
[19:27] <dholbach> <3
[19:27] <flexiondotorg> Just wondering if a few more sponsors could step up so when dholbach is busy I have someone else to call on.
[19:27] <flexiondotorg> Luke (accessibility) has also offered to help.
[19:27] <flexiondotorg> So, my next thing is seeds.
[19:28] <MichaelTunnell> can I view the hangout without being in the hangout? link?
[19:28] <flexiondotorg> MichaelTunnell, Hangout died.
[19:28] <dholbach> (in a different session, but...) make sure you always subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to bugs with patches, etc - that'll get it on the right bug lists
[19:28] <flexiondotorg> How do I get the seeds merged?
[19:28] <flexiondotorg> As I understand it, the seeds will be used to generate tasks for tasksel.
[19:29] <MichaelTunnell> flexiondotorg: oh ok
[19:29] <flexiondotorg> Who is my Ubuntu contact for that merging the Ubuntu MATE seeds?
[19:29] <flexiondotorg> popey, Want to try and restablish the stream?
[19:29] <popey> i can't right now, browser died here too.
[19:29] <flexiondotorg> popey, OK
[19:30] <dholbach> I could imagine that getting somebody to push your seed branch to some place lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ should be good, and upload the package to Ubuntu
[19:30] <flexiondotorg> SO, I need someone to help with seeds. What with Colin Watson transition roles who should that be now?
[19:30] <popey> ogra may be able to help
[19:30] <popey> I'll ask
[19:30] <dholbach> but you might want to just mail ubuntu-devel@lists.u.c about the proper process
[19:30] <amjjawad> hello popey who is the leader of Ubuntu MATE Remix?
[19:30] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, Thanks.
[19:31] <popey> amjjawad: flexiondotorg ^
[19:31] <amjjawad> thanks popey
[19:31] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: hi there
[19:31] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, Hi
[19:31] <amjjawad> I am the community manager of Ubuntu GNOME and as I have mentioned on Twitter, if you guys need any help, please let me know
[19:31] <flexiondotorg> I also believe that debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage will need updating to support Ubuntu MATE.
[19:32] <popey> these are minor changes though?
[19:32] <flexiondotorg> Is that down to me or does someone within Canonical do that?
[19:32] <amjjawad> your project needs lots of energy and time at the start and I know how hard that could be so if you ever need any help, ping me :) flexiondotorgq
[19:32] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I remember. Hello cousin 😃
[19:32] <popey> amjjawad: thanks, I think we're not short of energy, developers though...
[19:32] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: hey :D
[19:32] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, Many thanks.
[19:32] <amjjawad> popey: are you involved with MATE too?
[19:32] <popey> flexiondotorg: is this to support the mate packages required in things like ubiquity desktop session?
[19:33] <popey> yes
[19:33] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: you are more than welcome
[19:33] <amjjawad> popey: this is the case with all the flavours :(
[19:33] <flexiondotorg> I know how to modify debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage but I am not sure which branch I should be merging with.
[19:33] <amjjawad> we do need developers too with Ubuntu GNOME
[19:33] <ali1234> and Xubuntu :)
[19:33] <flexiondotorg> debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage are use to make the iso images.
[19:33] <popey> flexiondotorg: as dholbach said I think this is a good one for ubuntu-devel list
[19:33] <amjjawad> ali1234: all the flavours
[19:34] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Hi.
[19:34] <amjjawad> except Kubuntu because as far as I know, they have so many people
[19:34] <ali1234> hello :)
[19:34] <flexiondotorg> popey, OK I'll raise all that backend stuff there and see who bites.
[19:34] <flexiondotorg> I need to merge my Ubiquity slides.
[19:34] <popey> I think it would pay us to get this done sooner rather than later, speak to tech board and hopefully start getting isos built inside canonical dc
[19:35] <flexiondotorg> I have some outstanding merge proposal for light-themes but no one appears to be able to action though. No community representation.
[19:35] <flexiondotorg> popey, Yes. I agree.
[19:36] <flexiondotorg> I have a minor patch for lightdm-gtk-greeter but I can't submit a merge proposal to the repo.
[19:36] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: xubuntu is maintaining lightdm-gtk-greeter, contact ochosi, bluesabre etc
[19:36] <flexiondotorg> Also, Luke maintain an accessibility PPA. When enable all Orca and LightDM accessibility issue are resolved.
[19:36] <flexiondotorg> Could this not be uploaded into the official archive.
[19:36] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Thanks.
[19:37] <ali1234> for that matter i can review your MR, can't merge it though
[19:37] <flexiondotorg> I also have some minor patch for indicator-sound-gtk2 and indication-application which I also think the Xubuntu team maintian.
[19:37] <ali1234> no, we dumped gtk2 indicators, we only use gtk3 ones now
[19:37] <flexiondotorg> The patches are tested with Xubuntu already to ensure they don't break Xubuntu.
[19:37] <ali1234> however, i am very familiar with those too
[19:37] <flexiondotorg> They work just fine.
[19:38] <ali1234> i was just looking at those indicator bugs actually
[19:38] <flexiondotorg> Basically adds back some service files and adds support for the mate-sound-properties to the Sound indicator in MATE is running.
[19:38] <ali1234> sounds reasonable
[19:39] <flexiondotorg> If you grab the Ubuntu MATE 14.04 iso and run the live session in a VM you'll see them working by default.
[19:39] <ali1234> the gtk2 indicators aren't maintained by anyone now afaik
[19:39] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Well I would be OK with taking that on then. Since I need it.
[19:40] <flexiondotorg> popey, How do we acheive that?
[19:40] <ali1234> honestly... just make a gtk3 wrapper
[19:40] <ali1234> that's what we did
[19:40] <ali1234> our panel is still gtk2
[19:40] <popey> flexiondotorg: do what ali1234 says ☻
[19:40] <elfy> :)
[19:40] <ali1234> the gtk2 indicators are old and crufty and will keep on breaking
[19:40] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, We have one but it does appear to work with the Sounds and Network indicators. Other GTK3 indicators are working however.
[19:40] <flexiondotorg> *does not work with sounds and network indicator.
[19:41] <ali1234> well, i could take a look at that. we had many similar problems
[19:41] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I'd appreciate that.
[19:41] <popey> thanks ali1234 !
[19:42] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I can share what I know about getting indicators working in Ubiquity so Xubuntu can add that if you like?
[19:43] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[19:44] <popey> ali1234: does Xubuntu participate in Alphas?
[19:44] <elfy> popey: we'll be doing a2 this cycle
[19:44] <popey> ok
[19:45] <popey> might be worth us syncing up and aiming for a2 on canonical infra?
[19:45] <popey> 22nd jan
[19:45] <flexiondotorg> I am a bit overwhelmed with the amount of work required to make Alpha1.
[19:45] <popey> indeed, hence suggesting a2
[19:45] <elfy> we didn't alpha last cycle at all
[19:46] <ali1234> sorry, went afk there
[19:46] <flexiondotorg> I think I need to try and hit the alphas. They were extremely useful for feedback and fixing stuff.
[19:46] <amjjawad> elfy: is it okay to skip alpha and do just beta?
[19:46] <flexiondotorg> ANd I know this trasition will not be striaght forward.
[19:46] <elfy> amjjawad: yep
[19:46] <amjjawad> elfy: good to know :)
[19:47] <elfy> indeed
[19:47] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: i'm not sure we don't already have indicators in ubiquity?
[19:47] <ali1234> i know we have them on lightdm
[19:48] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I noticed on Xubuntu iso images in the live session there are no indicators during the Install.
[19:48] <ali1234> hmm, okay
[19:48] <ali1234> i don't install often...
[19:48] <ali1234> sorry elfy :)
[19:48] <elfy> mmm - checking
[19:48] <flexiondotorg> They are useful for selecting language, keyboard, a11y, network configuration etc.
[19:48] <elfy> ali1234: lol
[19:48] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: how is Ubuntu MATE when it comes to RAM usage? I guess something between Xubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME, correct?
[19:48] <ali1234> xubuntu isn't really that light
[19:48] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I've not measure it recently.
[19:48] <ali1234> i think xfce/mate are similar
[19:49] <amjjawad> ali1234: I know
[19:49] <flexiondotorg> Someone did a week or so ago. They did it properly and say Ubuntu MATE require 20MB more the Xubuntu.
[19:49] <elfy> flexiondotorg: certainly we have indicators in the live session
[19:49] <flexiondotorg> Which is consistent with my benchmarks on Arch Linux.
[19:49] <flexiondotorg> No the desktop, in Ubiquity.
[19:49] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: I will try to find sometime to test. What ISO you need testers for? 14.04 or 14.10 ?
[19:50] <ali1234> ah, i always use the live session to install
[19:50] <flexiondotorg> 14.04 is best for testing Ubuntu MATE.
[19:50] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: okay, will download it now :)
[19:50] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I will share what I learned so you can benefit.
[19:50] <amjjawad> elfy: I noticed you guys have Xubuntu Core ISO. Is that Ubuntu Mini with some basic XFCE packages?
[19:50] <ali1234> thanks
[19:51] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, What IRC channel should I find you in?
[19:51] <elfy> flexiondotorg: aah I see - yea if you go straight to install we have nothing
[19:51] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: #xubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-uk
[19:51] <elfy> amjjawad: yes it is
[19:51] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Yes.
[19:51] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Thanks. I'll be in touch.
[19:51] <amjjawad> elfy: very interesting :D
[19:52] <elfy> mmm
[19:52] <popey> flexiondotorg: so i think we have a bit of a plan then?
[19:52] <flexiondotorg> Looks like Ubuntu MATE and Xubuntu will be helpful for each other 😃
[19:52] <flexiondotorg> popey, Yes.
[19:52] <elfy> lol
[19:52] <flexiondotorg> I'll trawl these logs and make some notes.
[19:52] <ali1234> i made some notes on the pad
[19:52] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I can't access the pad 😞
[19:52] <ali1234> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1411-ubuntu-mate-remix
[19:53] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: you need to login
[19:53] <flexiondotorg> I am.
[19:53] <amjjawad> using your launchpad login
[19:53] <ali1234> you need to be in ubuntu-etherpad-users group too
[19:53] <amjjawad> +1
[19:53] <ali1234> or whatever it is called
[19:53] <flexiondotorg> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
[19:53] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, OK
[19:53] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[19:53] <popey> i can add people to that
[19:53] <flexiondotorg> popey, Add me please.
[19:53] <flexiondotorg> I'll add my notes to that pad then.
[19:54] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg: post your launchpad url here ;)
[19:54] <amjjawad> to make life easier for popey
[19:54] <flexiondotorg> lp~flexiondotorg
[19:54] <popey> done flexiondotorg
[19:54] <flexiondotorg> In 😃
[19:54] <amjjawad> :)
[19:54] <flexiondotorg> Thanks everyone.
[19:54] <popey> \o/
[19:54] <amjjawad> thank you all
[19:54] <popey> thanks
[19:54] <flexiondotorg> Very helpful.
[19:54] <elfy> good luck :)
[19:55] <amjjawad> +!
[19:55] <amjjawad> +1
[19:55] <flexiondotorg> I'll add my note to the pad now.
[19:58] <ali1234> popey: i still don't understand this A2 thing - if xubuntu and mate share the same repos, doesn't that mean they are guaranteed to share the same components? or you mean "aim to get mate into ubuntu repos by A2"?
[20:00] <popey> ali1234: yes, exactly.
[20:00] <ali1234> right-o
[20:00] <popey> aim to get ubuntu mate components and the necessary seed changes done "by A2"
[20:00] <popey> sorry that wasnt clear
[22:39] <IdleOne> Hello CC
[22:40] <Idle1> awesome stache Daniel
[22:42] <IdleOne> mhall119: what irc channel are you all in?
[22:48] <IdleOne> if it is a one time contribution like creating an app and then not seeing or hearing anything from the user again. I don't think that is enough to be considered sustained contribution
[22:50] <IdleOne> I think it is important to remember that membership is recognition by the community for being a part of the community. Just adding something to Ubuntu is not being a part of the community. Same way a dev at Canonical does not automatically get membership even though they may be adding heavily to the platform.
[22:51] <IdleOne> mhall119: I am not seeing what laura posted
[22:52] <IdleOne> oh
[22:52] <IdleOne> lol
[22:52] <IdleOne> never mind