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| === kadams54 is now known as kadams54-away | ||
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| gnuoy | jamespage, dosaboy, if either of you have a moment I'd like to get https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/next-1392645/+merge/241775 landed pretty sharpish | 09:58 |
|---|---|---|
| jamespage | gnuoy, does that need a test case update? | 09:59 |
| gnuoy | jamespage, if it doesn;t then we're missing a unit test. let me fix it either way | 09:59 |
| jamespage | gnuoy, +1 | 10:00 |
| gnuoy | jamespage, branch updated, just waiting for UOSCI to do its thing | 10:17 |
| gnuoy | jamespage, could you take another look at https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/next-1392645/+merge/241775 if/when you have a moment? | 13:10 |
| jamespage | gnuoy, +1 | 13:14 |
| gnuoy | thanks | 13:14 |
| gnuoy | jamespage, would you mind extending your +1 to the stable equivalent https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/next-1392645/+merge/241799 ? | 13:18 |
| jamespage | gnuoy, +1 | 13:22 |
| gnuoy | ta | 13:22 |
| === kadams54 is now known as kadams54-away | ||
| === kadams54-away is now known as kadams54 | ||
| === kadams54 is now known as kadams54-away | ||
| === kadams54-away is now known as kadams54 | ||
| === alai` is now known as alai | ||
| rogpeppe | does anyone know if config-changed is guaranteed to be called when a charm starts up? | 14:17 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: ^ | 14:17 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, essentially, yes | 14:18 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: ta | 14:18 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, if wecome up in an error state we won't call it until the error's resolved | 14:18 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: right, that's what i would expect | 14:18 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, but it's pretty much the first thing we do in ModeAbide: if c-c hasn't run yet for this instance of Uniter, run it | 14:18 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: but it'll be called after "start", right? | 14:19 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, before start | 14:19 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: ah, interesting | 14:19 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, which is a problem | 14:19 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, because "has the start hook run yet" is state we don't actually expose to the charm | 14:19 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: yeah, i was planning on restarting the service when the config changes | 14:19 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, so most charms, AFAIK, just assume they're always started, and always run their software in c-c | 14:19 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: that doesn't surprise me | 14:20 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: so the start hook is pretty much redundant | 14:20 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, you'd be technically wrong, but in good company, and constrained by not having a good way to do it right | 14:20 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: well, it would be easy to remember whether the start hook has been called or not | 14:20 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, well, IMO the true problem is that we don't expose have-you-started-yet as an env var | 14:20 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: but is that a bad thing to do? | 14:21 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, yeah, but it's be duplicated in every damn charm under the sun | 14:21 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, it's a good thing to do, but it's working around juju being bad | 14:21 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: perhaps the start hook really is somewhat redundant in fact, and could be deprecated | 14:22 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, mm, I think that stop/start are actually worthwhile | 14:22 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: is there some juju doc online that sets out the hook ordering guarantees succinctly? | 14:22 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: are you thinking about possible charm migration there? | 14:23 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, looking ahead to the possibility of migrating units and their storage from one machine to another, yeah | 14:23 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-hooks.html | 14:23 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: ah, that doc's perfect, thanks | 14:25 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: i guess if we always guarantee to call config-changed before start, we'd still be ok not implementing the start hook | 14:26 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, that is true | 14:27 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I really ought to just expose started state in the env though | 14:27 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: that's true. although does that mean you should observe its value in every hook, and stop if it's not true... ? | 14:27 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, or maybe actually $JUJU_STOPPED, so a test for an empty STOPPED value comes closest to matching behaviour in old jujus | 14:28 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I don't *think* so | 14:28 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, config-changed is the only hook that'll run when not started | 14:28 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, at least for now | 14:28 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: install :) | 14:28 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, sorry | 14:29 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, config-changed in the only hook that doesn't run in acontext where it can know whether it's started | 14:29 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: another unrelated charm question: where's a good place to put charm-specific persistent state? | 14:30 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, if it's only going to be read by the charm, I think the charm dir is actually fine probably | 14:31 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, the thing that freaks me out is writing stuff to the charm dir that will e read from outside a hook context | 14:32 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: what it's for example, a downloaded binary that is going to be used as an upstart service? | 14:32 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: or a config file for same | 14:32 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: that's the context i'm considering it in | 14:32 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I would keep those outside the charm dir | 14:33 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: um, yes | 14:33 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, in my mind the dividing line is whether it's necessary for the software itself, or necessary for the management layer | 14:33 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, so templates used in hooks? fine in the charm dir | 14:33 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, stuff actually read by other processes? keep it outside, so that it's most likely to keep working even if juju manages to completely trash its own state | 14:34 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, fail as safe as possible | 14:34 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: i know one charm that's using /etc/init/$appname:$servicename | 14:34 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, that sounds sane to me | 14:34 |
| fwereade | marcoceppi, does that sound like a reasonably-best practice to you? | 14:34 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: i'm not sure that's great though, as it's vulnerable to hulksmashing | 14:35 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I'm pretty sure wedon't allow hulk-smashed units of the same service on the same machine | 14:35 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: i'd prefer to have the unit name in there too, and perhaps the env uuid too | 14:35 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, modulo subordinates | 14:35 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: interesting. i wonder why not - it seems potentially useful for testing. | 14:35 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I don't think I have a well-reasoned answer to that beyond "it seemed like it opened more scary doors than useful ones" | 14:36 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, would indeed be useful for testing | 14:37 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: actually, that does work | 14:37 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, I think jam had some way around it? | 14:37 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: well, i'm waiting for the unit to come up... | 14:37 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, hmm, you can just do it? interesting | 14:37 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: yeah, seems to work | 14:37 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, and I see no code that would prevent it from so doing | 14:38 |
| lazyPower | jose: ping | 14:38 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, maybe it just got deleted when it was determined to be bloody hindering awkward for testing ;p | 14:38 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: well, i see a status with two started units from the same service on the same machine, which seems fairly clear | 14:39 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, yeah, and I remember it being akward code to write too | 14:39 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: yeah, i think it's reasonable - it falls out logically from the basic juju operations | 14:39 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, so, not really sorry to see it gone | 14:39 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, just puts a slightly heavier burden on the charm author | 14:39 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, and strongly pushes towards generating based on unit name | 14:40 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: if there was an easy way to get a name guaranteed to be unique to the charm, that would help | 14:40 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: because presumably with manual placement, it's possible to have services from several envs on the same machine... or maybe that's a step too far :) | 14:40 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, my suspicion is | 14:41 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, that that will fail in surprising and unhelpful ways, because of multiple machine agents trying to run at the same time | 14:41 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, and I have half an inkling that the manual provider code checks for pre-existing machine agents | 14:41 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: yeah, the upstart service names aren't named using the env UUID | 14:41 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, to prevent exactly that | 14:41 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, although | 14:42 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: otherwise it would probably be fine | 14:42 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, for general cleanliness' sake, we should absolutely be writing our code such that it should work | 14:42 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: oh, and /var/log/juju etc | 14:42 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: i wonder about $CHARM_UUID | 14:42 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, mm, I have a suspicion the machine agents would try to recall each others' deployed units | 14:42 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe, UNIT_UUID? | 14:42 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: yeah | 14:43 |
| rogpeppe | fwereade: although we've already got CHARM_DIR | 14:43 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: ping | 14:49 |
| jrwren | pong | 15:00 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: you have great timing. I had a question for you. | 15:01 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: awesome - whats up? | 15:01 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: you first. You pinged first :) | 15:01 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: ok, I'll ask first. https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-hook-errors.html says always return error code zero from hooks. OK. How do I return from a hook in a "bad configuration" state. e.g. charm was deployed with --config mycharmconfig.yaml and the state of that config mixes known bad options. | 15:06 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: was just following up on the fix you had for mongodb - did that make it as a backport to the precise charm as well? | 15:06 |
| jrwren | I want the end user to somehow know their charm is misconfigured. | 15:06 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: I know nothing about the precise charm. :( | 15:07 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: you can read the config in the install/config-changed hook and return 1 if there are bad options mixed. | 15:07 |
| lazyPower | but afaik you cannot do that on the CLI at present. it wont halt during pre-deployment | 15:07 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: is there a way to return an error string so that status show "bad config" or something ? | 15:08 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: there's no state outside of "charm is in error" - the best case we have today is making sure you log the error in the unit log. | 15:09 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: Thanks. That is the information I needed to know. | 15:09 |
| lazyPower | jrwren: can you take a look at getting your patches to the mongodb charm backported and MP'd against precise? | 15:16 |
| lazyPower | would be wunderbar! if you could. | 15:16 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: I'll add it to my chalkboard, at the bottom. | 15:18 |
| lazyPower | thanks jrwren | 15:18 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: My ETD on that is 2.5 years from now. | 15:25 |
| === tvansteenburgh1 is now known as tvansteenburgh | ||
| lazyPower | rick_h_ natefinch: Great session! Lots of good info in there! If you missed it: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22387/whats-new-and-upcoming-in-the-work-of-juju-ui-engineering/ | 15:53 |
| jrwren | lazyPower: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1392786 | 16:24 |
| mup | Bug #1392786: charm has no way to report error state <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392786> | 16:24 |
| lazyPower | bazinga | 16:25 |
| mhall119 | marcoceppi: gaughen jose: who is going to present the Cloud & DevOps summary in an hour? | 17:51 |
| marcoceppi | I'm still at conference | 17:52 |
| mhall119 | I think jose is at class, gaughen are you okay to do it? | 17:52 |
| gaughen | don't think I have a choice | 17:52 |
| gaughen | mhall119, I will be quick as I have another mtg | 17:52 |
| mhall119 | not unless you have an urgent need not to ;) | 17:52 |
| mhall119 | gaughen: you can go first, or last, if that would help you | 17:53 |
| gaughen | mhall119, first would be perfect | 17:53 |
| gaughen | now I need to go get my last session started | 17:53 |
| rogpeppe | can anyone tell me if open-port is idempotent? | 18:23 |
| rogpeppe | i.e. if i call it twice with the same port, will it succeed the second time? | 18:24 |
| jrwren | rogpeppe: afaik, yes. I'm 90% sure. :) | 18:31 |
| rogpeppe | jrwren: :) | 18:31 |
| rogpeppe | jrwren: i'm just being lazy and not reading the source code tbh | 18:31 |
| jrwren | rogpeppe: nothing wrong with that. charm authors shouldn't have to read the source code. | 18:32 |
| * rogpeppe is in that unusual position this afternoon :) | 18:33 | |
| rogpeppe | s/unusual/unaccustomed/ | 18:39 |
| === CyberJacob|Away is now known as CyberJacob | ||
| === kadams54 is now known as kadams54-away | ||
| === kadams54-away is now known as kadams54 | ||
| marcoceppi | rogpeppe: yes, iirc all juju commands are idempotent | 20:57 |
| mwenning | lazyPower, ping | 22:50 |
| jose | mwenning: hey, you need help with anything? | 22:51 |
| mwenning | jose, I'm getting an error when I try to bring up juju - I'm behind a proxy and it keeps timing out. | 22:55 |
| mwenning | can you help there? | 22:55 |
| jose | mwenning: is that when bootstrapping? | 22:55 |
| mwenning | https://pastebin.canonical.com/120521 | 22:55 |
| mwenning | yes. | 22:56 |
| jose | mwenning: not canonical, could you mind pasting it to paste.ubuntu.com? | 22:58 |
| mwenning | jose, pastebin.ubuntu.com/9014361/ | 23:03 |
| jose | thanks | 23:03 |
| jose | mwenning: if you're using a proxy and the MAAS cluster is on your local network, then the proxy is probably the issue | 23:04 |
| jose | can you access the MAAS admin site from your web browser? | 23:04 |
| mwenning | jose, yes, that part's working fine. | 23:06 |
| jose | hmm, I'm not sure then | 23:06 |
| jose | this is more a MAAS thing than a Juju thing | 23:06 |
| mwenning | I've been using maas to do Certs | 23:06 |
| jose | you're getting a 502 (Service Unavailable) | 23:06 |
| mwenning | jose, that's the maas server right? | 23:07 |
| jose | mwenning: yeah. nothing related with Juju, unfortunately | 23:07 |
| jose | sorry to not be of much help | 23:07 |
| mwenning | looks like it's trying to access boot-images? | 23:07 |
| mwenning | I can bring up a browser and touch that page just fine | 23:07 |
| jose | mwenning: mind a quick PM? | 23:08 |
| mwenning | PM? | 23:08 |
| jose | private message | 23:08 |
| mwenning | sure | 23:09 |
| === CyberJacob is now known as CyberJacob|Away | ||
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