Azelphurthe last slide is a tad silly, but the rest of it gets the point across reasonably well00:00
directhexfunny to see borderlands listed as an example00:02
directhexGG went ape over borderlands TPS acknowledging the existence of lesbians00:02
Azelphurbeen meaning to buy it, but haven't played it yet :)00:02
daftykinsit's fun co-op00:02
Azelphurdirecthex: heh, I'm not GG, I'm the neutral ass as previously mentioned :)00:03
directhexborderlands is our main husband-and-wife game. we're on TPS now.00:03
Azelphurno problem with the lesbian thing (in fact I couldn't really care less, I'd probably skip the cut scene so I could get back to shooting things)00:03
ali1234the cut scenes are the most entertaining part of that game really00:03
ali1234the shooting is okay but it gets boring after about 10 hours00:04
directhexit gets boring, solo. it's much more fun co-op00:04
Azelphurdirecthex: also being the neutral ass, I do have some points on the opposite side though, that chick from Soul Caliber is just ridiculous00:04
ali1234which one?00:05
Azelphurali1234: Ivy00:06
directhexAzelphur, some of those examples on your link are ridiculous. i think it's probably fair to say http://i2.listal.com/image/469481/936full-x--blades-cover.jpg is not a representation designed by a woman to make women feel empowered00:06
Azelphurlooks like something you'd expect to find in your average BDSM magazine xD00:06
Azelphurdirecthex: of course it isn't, games in general aren't supposed to be designed for that.00:06
directhexAzelphur, it's not just ivy in soul calibur. http://www.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/soul-calibur-boobs.jpg00:07
directhexAzelphur, what do you mean?00:07
Azelphurdirecthex: games aren't meant to be designed to make a woman feel empowered00:07
Azelphurthat's...not a games function00:07
Azelphur(why doesn't this toaster make me a coffee, dammit!)00:08
directhexAzelphur, games are about feeling powerful and you getting your way. for the most part.00:08
daftykinsAzelphur: for some reason i want to say "because you... haven't modded it before" in the voice of Lawrence Fishburne from The Matrix #100:09
Azelphurdirecthex: no, games are about fun00:09
Azelphurdaftykins: haha00:09
directhexAzelphur, games are about whatever the designer wants them to be.00:09
directhexand winning is fun00:09
directhexhow many games end on an entirely negative note? i can think of a few.00:10
Azelphurdirecthex: true, but most games certainly aren't about feeling powerful and getting your own way00:10
AzelphurI'd love to hear how that applies to some of the most popular games (such as, say 2048)00:10
directhexsurvival horror isn't00:10
AzelphurI guess you're a real macho man if you can get that 2048 down ;)00:10
ali1234"most popular games"00:10
directhexnow we're bringing web puzzles into it? that;s disingenuous and you know it00:10
Azelphuroh, console games?00:10
ali1234directhex: wait, are you making the argument that you're not a real gamer if you play web games?00:11
directhexAAA. platform doesn't really matter00:11
Azelphurdirecthex: how about the most recent game me and all of my friends have purchased and been playing00:11
AzelphurTableTop simulator, real macho.00:11
directhexali1234, i'm making the argument that abstract puzzle games don't really feature in discussions of player portrayal00:11
Azelphuroh ok, Puzzle games are out, lets see here...00:12
ali1234what about a game like FTL?00:12
Azelphurali1234: indeed, macho :P00:12
ali1234i love that game, but only on easy00:12
* penguin42 still hasn't got 204800:12
directhexAzelphur, it was your graphic. i didn't see any puzzles on it.00:13
Azelphurdirecthex: you know what we should be fighting against rather than "there's this one game where a girl has ridiculously big boobs on"00:13
Azelphurhttp://xkcd.com/322/ <-- this crap00:13
Azelphurthat's the kind of crap I clamp down on, on my game servers, and we have a bunch of regular female players who enjoy it, so I'd say I'm doing something reasonably well.00:13
directhexali1234, FTL doesn't portray gender in anything. your crew are male or female, as you see fit. which is great for a game where you're building your own story00:13
Azelphurbecause that crap makes you feel far less welcome in the community, than a game having some girl with big boobs in it.00:15
Azelphurat least, in this neutral asses opinion. xD00:15
directhexAzelphur, active sexism is indeed bad. and policing it to make people feel more welcome is great00:16
Azelphurdirecthex: I do so in a neutral manner, if I saw the same crap being thrown at a guy I'd take the same response, but of course that pretty much never happens00:16
Azelphur(although it has happened, amusingly)00:16
Azelphurbut yea, as far as it goes now days most games are fairly gender-irrelevant00:17
ali1234not AAA games00:18
directhexagain, it depends. and especially not in AAA00:18
ali1234but nearly all of those are terrible anyway00:18
Azelphurwell lets take a look at my steam library00:18
directhexmost sexism is thoughtlessness, not evildoing.00:18
AzelphurAmnesia (I think the main player is a guy? dunno), Blur (No sexes), Burnout (No sexes), Counter-Strike (Male characters, but meh), FTL (no sexes), Skyrim (Admittedly has some minor things), L4D + 2  (Both sexes, gender neutral), ...00:19
Azelphurand that's just the top few games I play on my steam library00:20
AzelphurI think overall we're pretty good00:20
Azelphurof the AAA games in my library, Counter Strikes, L4D, Portal, Trine 2, TF2, all of them are pretty ok00:21
directhexcounter-strike? really?00:22
directhexor tf2?00:22
daftykinsguess i have to ignore this channel for the rest of the evening ;)00:22
Azelphurdirecthex: go on xD00:22
diddledansorry, daftykins00:22
daftykinshehehe, dw00:22
Azelphurdaftykins: haha00:22
diddledanI feel kinda like pandora00:23
Azelphurdirecthex: I don't see how counter-strike or TF2 can be objectifying women, they don't even have any women in them. XD00:24
ali1234isn't pyro supposed to be a woman?00:25
Azelphurali1234: nobody knows XD00:25
daftykinssomeone came in #ubuntu the other day and claimed HL3 was confirmed, i know the term is a meme in a way but i still had a quick read online :(00:25
directhexAzelphur, objectification is one issue amongst several. CS is a good example, since (e.g.) there are women in the real IDF and FBI (cs:go), and most of the operative groups of the earlier games too00:25
directhexbut not in the game00:26
Azelphurdirecthex: so the issue is that the game only has male characters?00:26
directhexyou can chose a model T in any colour, as long as it's black00:26
directhexAzelphur, it's one issue. games disproportionately feature only male avatars. there are women in GIGN, why aren't they playable in CS?00:27
Azelphurdirecthex: right, gotta flip the operands then in order to remain neutral? are we also angry that there are games that only have female playable characters?00:27
directhexAzelphur, can you name 3 from 2014?00:28
ali1234well, can you name a AAA game with only female characters?00:28
Azelphurdirecthex: I don't think I can name 3 games from 2014 period tbh00:28
AzelphurI'm not that up to speed :)00:28
Azelphurali1234: Tomb Raider00:28
diddledansweet! just closed 4 issues from my current project which were preventing go-live00:28
ali1234tomb raider clearly has too much fan service00:29
Azelphurdirecthex: honestly I don't have a great deal of knowledge on the latest games, or their release dates, I just notice games I like the look of and play them.00:29
diddledanjust need to test in IE10 and 11 now00:30
diddledanIE9 is okish00:30
directhexAzelphur, you;d struggle, even if you were well versed on the topic00:30
directhexAzelphur, i don't think i can name 3 female-protag-only games in 2014.00:30
Azelphurdirecthex: well I'm not struggling to name triple A games with only female characters.00:30
diddledanIE9 will suffice. I'm not concentrating any more time to making it look good there00:30
ali1234the only ones i can think of are fan service games00:30
directhexAzelphur, okay. name the three that come to mind for you.00:30
Azelphurbut, even if I was, that's not the point00:30
Azelphurdirecthex: tomb raider, portal (1 and 2), mirrors edge.00:30
Azelphurthere's 4 for ya00:30
Azelphurwant some more?00:31
AzelphurMetroids another00:31
ali1234ones that have more than one player character00:31
diddledanportal has a female computer! why must all computers be female?!00:31
directhextomb raider from 2013, or are you going for the whole franchise?00:31
diddledanat least the canonical computer wasn't female. aka hal900000:31
Azelphurdirecthex: I was going for the whole franchise I guess, I haven't played tomb raider since the playstation 2 :)00:31
Azelphurdirecthex: none the less, the existence of games that only have female characters wasn't the point00:32
Azelphurthe point was, if it's unacceptable for there to be games with only male character(s), it should also be unacceptable if you flip the operands.00:32
Azelphurif it isn't, you're by definition being sexist :)00:32
directhexi used the word "disproportionately". the problem isn't there being games with only one playable gender, it's needing to go back to 2007 to name 4 of them.00:33
Azelphurdirecthex: *shrug* I probably need to go back to 2007 to name any games00:33
Azelphuras I say, I don't keep up to date00:33
ali1234me too00:33
ali1234what's that game where everyone hated the ending?00:34
directhexmass effect 3?00:34
AzelphurI haven't owned a console since the PS2, and as you can see by my games library, it's all not the latest stuff https://steamcommunity.com/id/Azelphur/games/00:34
ali1234yeah that00:34
Azelphurali1234: ah yea because of the guy love or something :)00:34
AzelphurI giggled at how uppity everyone was getting.00:34
AzelphurI think my newest AAA game is probably trine 200:34
ali1234well, in that game you can pick whether the player character is male or female right?00:35
Azelphurwhich is circa 2011 xD00:35
diddledanI expect for some having men love men in a game is as bad as having a woman that isn't in a bikini00:35
directhexali1234, in mass effect? yes.00:35
ali1234but all the NPC don't change00:35
directhexdiddledan, for some. mass effect was banned in singapore due to gayness.00:35
diddledandirecthex, joy00:35
directhexali1234, right. bioware is extremely well regarded on the topic of gender portrayal, actually00:36
diddledanthat really is sucky00:36
ali1234so do feminists approve of that game then?00:36
Azelphurthat flipping the operands thing works great for being really level headed and neutral, I use it all the time in my head.00:36
directhexali1234, by and large, yes.00:36
Azelphurit's a great sorta morality/equality check00:36
directhexit helps that jennifer hale is the better voice actress.00:36
ali1234they did all the lines twice?00:36
ali1234well, half of them i guess00:37
directhexbut the player is only ever referred to as their surname00:37
Azelphurhehehe, I apparently played Need for speed undercover more than I did Skyrim, I wonder if this makes me a bad gamer.00:37
directhexso that doesn't change with gender00:37
directhexand they're "they" not "her" or "him". they're clever to avoid needing anyone in the world to care about gender. other than for romance chains.00:37
Azelphurquick, break out the zhe00:38
ali1234GTA has never had a female PC right?00:39
directhexali1234, right.00:39
ali1234assassin's creed never had one00:39
directhexali1234, ac3: liberation, on vita00:39
ali1234i can't think of any other AAA games00:39
directhexwhich is an ac game starring a black woman, and is mostly about slavery. it's interesting.00:39
Azelphurdirecthex: you also mentioned earlier that there are select gamers who are, I guess extremists really00:40
Azelphurthe ones who harass people00:40
Azelphurand yup, those guys are total nutjobs00:41
directhexand people doing harassing who aren't even gamers.00:41
Azelphurexactly, that really grinds my gears00:41
AzelphurI can't remember that one girls name who has been kicking up a right fuss00:41
Azelphurwho admits she doesn't even play games00:41
Azelphurand then there was the whole thing where she claimed people were threatening her and that she had to leave but never filed a police report00:42
Azelphurwhole thing stank of BS00:42
directhexi think you have a rose-tinted view of how things are in 2014 though. it's not a quest to destroy all games forever, it's saying "how come in hitman absolution, male assassins wear pressed suits & female assassins working for the same employers are latex bondage nuns?"00:42
directhexAzelphur, those points aren't actually true fwiw.00:42
* Azelphur shrugs00:42
directhexyou're thinking of media critic anita sarkeesian. who *did* file a report (but GG is loud & claimed she didn't, so that's the reality that many believe)00:43
AzelphurI see, and yea, it's certainly very loud :)00:43
Azelphurdirecthex: that and the other point is that I get death threats on a weekly basis, welcome to being popular on the internet.00:44
directhexand she said she didn't play many AAA games, once, in 2010. she's clearly got a better grasp of games than most of GG, and has shared family photos of her on the family SNES etc. so i think that's just a trumped up "look, she's an outsider charge to try & discredit her00:44
directhexAzelphur, with your home address?00:44
Azelphurdirecthex: yup00:44
AzelphurI've had proper creepy "I know where you live" shit :)00:44
Azelphurmy response is usually "Hey, come by, we'll have tea and crumpets"00:45
directhexdid you hear about the 4chan murder, recently?00:46
AzelphurIt's just a reality of being popular, there are nutjobs out there00:46
diddledanthere's a difference between being told "I know where you live" and "I'm going to go round and **** her. ps. she lives at 123 actual address"00:46
Azelphurdirecthex: there seem to be a lot of nutjobs who happen to use 4chan00:46
ali1234i didn't, go on?00:46
Azelphurbut yea, I didn't :)00:47
ali1234oh yeah, i did hear about that00:48
Azelphurbut yea, there was also some guy who got murdered for taking a sword in a video game00:48
Azelphurthere are crazy people out there, don't let them get to you / stop you doing things.00:48
diddledanseriously, don't let them get to you. or you've had it too00:49
directhexin yankland, those crazy people are armed00:49
Azelphurwell yea that too :P00:49
Azelphurdirecthex: not like they don't have weapons here too, admittedly not guns00:49
Azelphurbut still fairly equal in the you're probably going to die range00:50
diddledanare samurai swords allowed in the UK? (e.g. as ornaments which can "accidentally" be used to aggressively cut a guy's head off because he smiled at you)00:50
Azelphurdiddledan: yea they are, I have multiple friends who have them00:51
ali1234lol, "shirtgate"00:52
directhexi thought it was "shirtstorm"00:54
directhexand that guy's been totally ripped apart. he did something dumb at just the wrong time, i guess.00:55
daftykinsprops to him if the video apology was genuine00:58
ali1234if it had been me, i would have worn the same shirt in the apology video00:58
directhexyeah, he looked crushed. but he has thousands of people attacking him, at the apex of his career & the culmination of decades of work. i feel sorry for the guy00:59
directhexhe did a dumb thing, he's sorry. that should really be the end of it00:59
diddledanwhat did he do?01:00
penguin42http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-30055278 ?01:00
directhexhe did a press conference for the comet probe, wearing a shirt printed with women in latex bondage gear01:00
directhexwhich is pushing "casual work attire" a little bit further than most people would agree was workplace-appropriate01:01
* penguin42 now wants to know if that's his normal shirts or he put it on specially01:01
diddledanI know what it's like tho - I wore a "budweiser" tee unthinking to a place where there might have been alcoholics01:02
diddledanmight have been - i.e. likely01:02
directhexthis is a good example of my comment above [00:18]<directhex> most sexism is thoughtlessness, not evildoing.01:03
directhexit'd be lovely if people left the guy alone to do some sciencing now01:03
diddledanI agree - it's the same for a lot of things - if people didn't highlight the accident it wouldn't be an issue for anyone, but some people enjoy pointing out things like that01:03
daftykinsbit of a flaw to social network i guess, allowing these bandwagon jumpers to be united01:04
ali1234right, as soon as twitter gets involved is the point where i stop caring01:05
penguin42it's got to be said though as shirts go, it's one of the worst choices for being non-offensive01:05
ali1234brown shirt with a black arm band would have been worse, i think01:05
penguin42probably true01:05
directhexpenguin42, he won't have thought beyond "this shirt looks cool and colourful"01:06
directhex"i work with women scientists, maybe they might be uncomfortable at me wearing a gallery of boobies at them" won't have been a consideration, due to aforementioned thoughtlessness01:07
penguin42directhex: Yeh, I'm sure he didn't pick it to be offensive, but still that's pretty dumb, you don't buy a shirt like that and not realise it'll cause offense to some people01:07
directhexpenguin42, apparently it was a gift from a designer friend of his. she's not entirely pleased at the reaction to her work01:08
penguin42directhex: Hehe, pointing out it was a gift from a lady does help a bit :-) But still, I'm sorry it's obvious it would cause offence to people01:09
diddledanthis is where double standards come into play because I can foresee some folk will read that it was made by a woman and say "oh well it's ok then because she's a woman"01:09
directhexsome women are okay with that kind of thing. some don't. it's basic human decency to ask yourself if you're potentially making your co-workers uncomfortable with your behaviour, which includes the way you dress01:10
ali1234did anyone actually ask any of his co-workers?01:10
directhexi think co-workers might be upset if i came in my leather bondage harness instead of jeans & t-shirt01:10
diddledandirecthex, oh, I didn't know you were a deviant. nice to learn. ;-)01:11
directhexi think http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/50432219744/special-guest-edition-the-hawkeye-initiative-irl is my favourite primer on the idea of accidentally hostile work environments01:12
directhexnow, i should totes be in bed01:16
daftykinsoh wow 1am, didn't even notice01:16
directhexwe were having SO MUCH FUN talking about GAMERGATE and SOCIAL JUSTICE01:16
* directhex foams at the mouth a bit01:16
ali1234i don't get it, why can't we have both posters?01:17
daftykinsdirecthex: what's scary is i don't doubt you own said harness01:17
directhexali1234, we absolutely can. but originally only ruby underboob existed. and nobody in seniority considered that it might be inappropriate for that to be the case01:18
diddledanI love both those pictures01:18
directhexit's a cute, humorous, and harmless way to diffuse the "i work in an office surrounded by semi-naked women on the walls and it makes me uncomfortable" issue01:19
directhexright. BED FOR REAL SO MUCH ZOMG01:25
daftykinsjust read that through, quite amusing :)01:28
daftykinsimpressively grounded boss to respond so01:28
diddledanlol: https://twitter.com/jordansissel/status/53342148004731289701:30
penguin42I didn't recognise that at first, my browser displayed it as an emoticon like with a face01:33
ali1234that's what it is supposed to do...01:33
diddledanit's a pile of poo with eyes01:33
ali1234right, 💩01:34
diddledanhmm, my hexchat doesn't like that01:34
ali1234tl;dr "pile of poo" is a unicode character01:35
ali1234no actual font i've ever seen has it01:36
ali1234twitter converts it to an image for display01:37
penguin42ali1234: It's apparently in the symbola font01:37
diddledanos x does it01:37
diddledanI think it might be a hook though rather than font support01:37
penguin42yeh fc21 does it01:37
penguin42hmm, routing hickup on vm02:16
penguin42vm is definitely having problems02:29
diddledanoh dear02:29
penguin42it had a hickup about 20mins ago, and most stuff seems to be OK, but some stuff hmm02:30
penguin42traceroutes to imgur.com seem to die, but are fine from another host02:30
diddledanI have a vm connection I can try with02:31
diddledanlooks like I die within virgin at 3 hops to imgur.com02:32
penguin42seems oddly specific doesn't it02:32
diddledanoh, maybe I don't02:32
diddledan4 timed-out hops, and then three more02:32
diddledanthree more responding hops02:33
diddledannow more timing out hops02:33
penguin42diddledan: manc-core-2a-xe-1022-0.network.virginmedia.net, pres-core-2b-ae16-0.network.virginmedia.net know-geam-1b-pc200.network.virginmedia.net  wb7301b.network.virginmedia.net  and that's it02:33
diddledanyup, I'm getting to wb7301b too02:34
penguin42with a not responder between manc-core and pres-core02:34
diddledaninteresting that we're both hitting the same router02:34
penguin42well it's bubbled around and eventually hit the way it thinks it's supposed to get there02:34
daftykinsi could give you a Channel perspective ;)02:35
daftykinsdoubt it'd be much use mind 8D02:35
diddledanI go to winchester? then brent? (I'm interpreting the hostnames as I see fit) before several timeouts then pres-core and beyond the same as you02:35
penguin42why the hell do you end up at pres-core - I'm assuming pres-core is Preston02:36
diddledanyeah, I thought that too02:36
penguin42Manc-Pres makes some sense02:36
diddledanI think virgin's internal routes are broke02:37
daftykinsdiddledan: any thoughts on the dd command by jakesyl in #ubuntu ? '/dev/rdisk1' looks suspect to me, or is that standard naming in mac land?02:37
penguin42yeh that's rawdisk on mac/bsd02:37
daftykinsi'm thinking about the mistake between /dev/sdx1 vs /dev/sdx for image writing02:37
daftykinsah, so it's irrelevant to partitions? fair enough02:38
diddledanyup, rdisk1 is the un-buffered/filtered disk-level - partitions are like: /dev/rdisk1s102:39
diddledanwhere s means "slice"02:39
penguin42diddledan: Looks like they fixed it02:40
diddledanslice is the way that bsd refers to what the rest of the world calls a partition because in bsd-land you would slice up your disc with one or more bsd slices (and any other oses) and then partition the bsd slice for bsd filesystem segregation such as swap, root, home etc02:40
penguin42diddledan: Although I'm curious if you still go up to preston to get routed back down through London02:41
diddledansame first three hops02:41
diddledan4, 5, 6, and 7 still time out as before02:41
diddledanand now I'm up in preston, with the same three hops from the failed trace, but then go to nrth-bb-1b-xe-618-0.network.virginmedia.net followed by london and out onto level302:42
diddledanseem to be timing out after the level3 hop02:43
diddledanthis is the last that responded: ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net (
penguin42diddledan: Yeh02:45
penguin42diddledan: But imgur stuff actually responds now, oh there's some switching going on, a traceroute I just did has shown it going via cogentco.com rather than Level3.net02:46
diddledanI love watching bgp simulations02:46
penguin42although given the last one is shown as lhr01 I guess that's the packets being put on a plane02:46
diddledanit's a shame I don't have access to the bgp routing table to make my own02:47
* diddledan tries again02:52
diddledanstill trying to go out level3 for me02:53
penguin42diddledan: Yeh, flipped back :-)02:54
diddledanheh, their routing must be really screwed if it's flipping02:54
diddledanI'm guessing their NOC team have been rudely awakened02:55
diddledantrying a random name that I'm expecting to not have an edge-cache in ISPs - got to cogentco.com's routers (8 of them!) then nephoscale.net02:57
diddledannow timeouts02:57
diddledanthis is to eff.org02:57
penguin42but I seem to be able to connect to it OK02:57
penguin42diddledan: I assume that the 'know-' address is Knowsley (liverpool) - virgin list it as an office site, the remaining ones though are too cryptic02:58
diddledanlol @ hostname: 18  SiliconValley_WebHosting.demarc.cogentco.com (
diddledanI guess eff must be hosted by nephoscale?02:59
penguin42that makes it too easy02:59
diddledanyeah the IP of eff.org is a nephoscale owned IP03:00
diddledanso it's timing out because the actual server dropped the connection rather than telling me I got there03:01
=== zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi
maphi all04:37
zmoylan-pitis quiet05:35
diddledanello map05:47
zmoylan-piand listening to outside a break in the last 3 days of rain05:50
mapwhere abouts in uk zmoylan-pi ?05:55
zmoylan-pidublin, ireland.05:55
maprained here again05:56
mapbig bang theory then sleep for me05:56
zmoylan-piforgot to convert to smaller format for tablet.  will wait till later05:58
zmoylan-pia 70mb file rather than 170mb is good enough and fits a more to my media drive05:58
mapwhat you converting big bang|?06:00
zmoylan-pii usually get them, convert them, watch them and add them to media drive till i get the dvd and rip a better copy06:01
mapneed to start on new series of arrow soon06:06
* zmoylan-pi is watching season 1 of b506:11
mapb5? bablyon 5?06:14
mapnever seen it06:14
mapthere's a new chan 4 series called Babylon saw the pilot months ago and they finally starting airing eps06:15
zmoylan-piit changed sci fi.  it was what made ds9 so much better than tng.  turned sci fi from episodic to arc based06:15
mapnever seen either pf them06:16
mapi prob should06:16
zmoylan-pihanging out in a linux chatroom and never seen ds9...06:16
* zmoylan-pi shakes head sadly at kids today :-p06:16
zmoylan-pistargate sg1?06:18
map got a lot o tv to watch eh06:19
mapbut il burn through them fast its easy when series are finished..watched all of arrow s1 in a week the wire 1-4 in a few06:20
daftykinsstargate \o/06:20
zmoylan-piwell trek is a LOT of tv.  tos, lite, tng, ds9, voy, ent plus movies06:20
mapim off to sleep06:22
map725am here06:22
mapnight all:P i guess you two havent slept yet06:22
mapunless you got up suoer early on a sat heh06:22
zmoylan-pii slept... yesterday afternoon i think06:22
mapeva longorias so hot..just watching brooklyn nine nine again06:26
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.10:05
diddledanwtf? it's daylight!10:05
diddledanhow did that happen?10:05
brobostigonmorning diddledan10:06
brobostigonwell several factors caused it to happen, diddledan10:06
popeymorning all10:24
brobostigonmorning HRH popey10:25
popeymorning aquarius11:06
aquariusohai popey11:07
* popey moves11:07
aquariusI don't suppose anyone knows Objective C, do they?11:07
aquariusbah. I am trying to translate about five lines of it into some sort of sane language and can't :)11:13
aquariusspecifically: what happens if fply_header[6] ==  1?11:15
aquariusI do not get what lines 297-302 are doing11:15
diddledanthat looks to just be taking a byte array and marshalling it into an NSData object11:17
aquariusOK. I *believe* from this that "content" is the stuff that the remote site POSTed to us11:17
aquariusline 301 does... what? I *think* it gets 1 byte from content and puts it in fply_2 at position 13?11:18
aquarius(er, it gets one byte from content at position 14, i.e., the 14th byte of content, and it copies it to fply_2, overwriting fply_2's 13th byte?)11:19
aquariusline 302 then just marshals fply_2 into an NSData object, I think.11:20
aquariusbut line 301 is the bit I don't get11:20
diddledanapple's nsstring reference doesn't list a getBytes:length method11:26
diddledanoh, it's range11:27
diddledanlet me try looking for that11:27
diddledanoh, that'll be why - it's an NSData11:27
diddledanok, 286 is taking from the content object 12 bytes and stuffing them into fply_header11:30
diddledanthen 301 is taking fply_id_range-length of bytes out of content (now that the header has been removed in 292) and stuffing it into fply_2 starting at offset 13 (starting at 0)11:32
diddledanoffset 13 is the 14th byte11:32
diddledanlooks like the fply_id_range specifies to take the 14th byte out of the original data (after the header has been removed) and the fply_2 + 13 says to stuff it in the same offset in fply_211:36
aquariushang on, the first 12 bytes of content are *removed*?11:36
aquariusdiddledan, can you write python? if you can, do you fancy writing those few lines in python for me so I can follow along? :)11:37
aquariusthe square bracket stuff in objc confuses the hell out of me :)11:37
diddledanno I think I got that wrong - it looks to just stuff the header into the payload NSData object - I saw the subdata and assumed it was slicing11:38
diddledannope it's not even doing that11:39
diddledanNSRange is weird11:39
aquariushence why I am confused ;)11:39
diddledanit specifies an offset AND a length11:39
diddledanso 288 thru 292 is taking the data in *content and extracting the bytes into *payload WITHOUT the header11:40
diddledanand then 297 thru 301 are doing a single byte copy of the protocol's ID byte and plopping it into a prepared byte-array (*data)11:42
diddledansorry, not *data I mean fply_211:43
diddledanI Was skipping ahead11:43
diddledanthe line 302 then creates a pointer to fply_2 and stores it in an NSData object called data11:44
diddledanthat's purely so that it can be sent to the replyOK:withHeaders:withData function11:44
aquariusso, basically, at the end of it, data is (I think) an exact copy of fply_2 except that its 14th byte has been overwritten by the 13th byte of content? Is that right?11:45
diddledanI _think_ it's 14th with 14th11:46
diddledanit takes location "12 + 2" from content and copies it into "fply_2 + 13". I'm not entirely sure if either or both of those are indexed from 0 or 111:48
diddledanI hate binary wire protocols11:49
diddledanwhy can't we all use UTF-8?!11:49
aquariusthat's apple for you :)11:51
aquariusI'll give a few things a try and see if I get somewhere :)11:53
diddledanok, I gotta head out now. I might be back later11:55
aquariusdiddledan, cheers, pal!11:55
YaManicKillSo, my friend just set up a fresh ubuntu server install, and gave me an account on it. However, using the details they sent me (they even added my ssh key) I can't log in. Where should I look for if soemthing is blocking me from getting in apart from the ssh config, and hosts.deny12:09
aquariusYaManicKill, if you add lots of -v options to the ssh command it may give you a clue where it's being denied? although you may have tried that12:11
YaManicKillYeah, that's not giving me anything useful.12:14
YaManicKillIt tried the ssh key, and just says "Next authentication method: password" ... etc12:15
aquariusalso, check /var/log/auth.log on the server, I think12:15
aquariusdoes the vvvvv stuff show that your public key is being offere and rejected?12:16
aquariusauth.log on the server may have clues as to why you are denied, but if you can't ssh in, you can't see it, surely?12:18
YaManicKillYeah, but I've got it from the friend who can get onto the server.12:19
YaManicKillThe weird thing is...she *can* connect using the info she gave me :-\12:19
aquariuscan you try connecting to there using the same info but from another server?12:21
aquariuslike, find an ssh account you've got somewhere else and ssh to there, then ssh from there to the server you're trying?12:21
YaManicKillYeah, tried that.12:21
YaManicKillSame issue.12:21
aquariusand it doesn't work?12:21
aquariusis she successfully connecting with a key, or with a password?12:22
YaManicKillThis is the only thing out of the ordinary I see: Nov 15 06:40:50 poketrades sshd[10069]: error: Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key12:24
aquariusare you sure you're spelling the username right?12:24
aquariusmigth wanna poke /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the server and change the logging level a bit higher and then connect again12:25
YaManicKillI keep asking her that I am spelling it right, and she says yes.12:26
YaManicKillshould I stick it to debug?12:27
foobarryyes, and check the chmod settings12:27
aquariusmight wanna go to VERBOSE12:28
aquariusand then DEBUG later if VERBOSE doesn't help12:28
YaManicKillfoobarry: chmod for what?12:28
foobarryif you create .ssh12:28
YaManicKillah good call12:28
foobarryit usually doesn't create the directory with correct settings for ssh keys12:28
aquariusthat can't be the problem though, because it would occur to anyone using those credentials to connect, and it doesn't occur with your friend12:29
foobarryah, you're doing host key auth rather than pub/priv user keys?12:29
YaManicKillNo no, it's pub/priv12:31
YaManicKillerm, what should .ssh be?12:31
foobarry: Could not load host key:   /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key12:31
foobarrywhy's it doing that ?12:31
foobarryif its user key then you can write a 5 lines script12:32
foobarrycheck if .ssh exists, then make it12:32
foobarrychmod 700 .ssh12:32
foobarrywget http://siojsoidjf.com/ya.pub12:33
foobarrycat ya.pub >> .ssh/authorized_keys12:33
foobarrychmod 600 !$12:33
foobarrythe other day my ssh broke because something/someone mysteriously changed my home dir to 77712:35
YaManicKill.ssh/authorized keys was read only, could that be part of the issue?12:35
foobarrydont think so12:36
foobarrycheck your pub key is correct format and is in there12:36
foobarryloko for acidental carriage returns12:37
aquariusthe pub key can't be the problem, though, because password auth doesn't work either, right, foobarry?12:37
aquariuser, right, YaManicKill12:37
foobarrycould be a bunch of reasons :S12:41
YaManicKillI don't know if fixing this will allow me to login, but that's certanarily an issue :-P12:43
YaManicKill\o/ works12:45
foobarryah, a typo in auth keys?12:49
zmoylan-pithe sense of triumph after a bug/glitch/error is eliminated12:58
YaManicKillheh, yeah12:59
YaManicKillAlright...seeing as you guys are so good...why are my ssh session so damn slow?12:59
YaManicKillMy internet isn't  shocking (it is bad, but not this bad)12:59
YaManicKillI tend to get about a 10 second delay between keypresses.13:00
zmoylan-pias long as it's counteracted by the 'how the flip did i do something so stupid' :-p13:00
foobarrywhere is the server13:00
foobarryalso, now change your password on the server, since your psasword is not what u tought it was13:00
YaManicKillfoobarry: yeah, done :-P13:01
foobarryrun top on the server13:01
YaManicKillServer is NY, but I also have one in London and it has the same issue.13:01
foobarrywhat the common ground:?13:01
foobarryyour client machine:13:01
zmoylan-picould it be you then?13:02
foobarrygot another device on your home internet13:02
foobarryyou can test from?13:02
YaManicKillI'm sure it could...but what? It's no the connection, because I'm sending messages here and they appear <1s13:02
foobarrygot a different terminal app?13:03
YaManicKillfrom my phone on the same connection, it seems just as slow :-\ but, I'm talking like 10 second delays between me typing and it appearing on the server...doesn't that seem totally ridiculous?13:08
YaManicKill10 seconds if I'm lucky, I just got a 30 second delay there13:08
markie-it is ridiculous but it is also a safe distance13:09
markie-ask youtself how close you really want to get13:10
popeyYaManicKill: mtr to the server.13:25
popeyYaManicKill: also, let us know the IP so we can mtr, might be your isp13:25
popey(not your connection, but a routing problem in your isp)13:26
YaManicKilluhm what is mtr?13:28
popeylike traceroute13:28
popeybut better13:28
popeythats me doing mtr bbc.co.uk13:29
YaManicKilloh, cool13:29
YaManicKillthe server is hq.porygon.co13:29
popeyah, so digitalocean box?13:30
YaManicKillyup yup13:30
popeyi see lots of packet loss at tclo-ic-2-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net13:30
popeyyou on virgin ?13:31
YaManicKillno, I'm on plusnet13:31
popeythats what I see13:31
YaManicKillOn stupidly slow connection.13:31
popeyooh, lunch, biab13:31
YaManicKillinteresting, thanks popey13:31
YaManicKillinterestingly, mine doesn't show any packet loss13:36
YaManicKillOh tell a lie, I see some..but not much at all.13:36
zmoylan-pii see 2 lines with ??? which is interesting13:38
zmoylan-piand when i do it again only 1 line with ??? but 57% packet loss on one hop... http://paste.ubuntu.com/9025301/13:40
Azelphurout of curiosity, does anyone have any suggestions on how not to have to buy cans of compressed air?13:42
Azelphursome kind of reusable solution13:42
zmoylan-piwhat are using them on?13:42
Azelphurzmoylan-pi: what else? computers13:42
zmoylan-piyes, but internally or just keyboards?13:43
zmoylan-piso cigarette lighter gas on a powered on pc is RIGHT out :-p13:43
zmoylan-pibut could be used in a pinch and well ventilated area to clean keyboard13:45
Azelphurzmoylan-pi: but you'd need to compress it13:46
zmoylan-pibut can be picked up cheaper than compressed air cans in discount stores if this was purely a money saving exercise13:47
Azelphurpretty much, I feel silly buying ... air13:48
Azelphurthat looks like exactly what I want :D13:50
* zmoylan-pi is still waiting for site to tell how it works...13:50
zmoylan-piand $109...13:51
zmoylan-pino wait cheap original version... $70 http://www.canlessair.com/store/p/26-Canless-Air-System-O2-Hurricane.html13:52
Azelphurso basically the same as 10 cans of compressed air13:52
Azelphurseems reasonable13:53
zmoylan-piwith a battery rated for 500 charges13:53
Azelphuroh, I was just about to say why 50013:53
Azelphurso you can probably replace the battery \o/13:53
zmoylan-pior mount a replacement externally if you want to cheap out :-)13:53
zmoylan-pione pc we had above an engineering workshop used to suck in metal dust from the air and short out.  we ended up putting a new pc in a pair of tights at the location.  worked fine if dust is a problem.  but you have to more careful with modern air cooled pcs13:55
Azelphurzmoylan-pi: I just find that I often need a can of compressed air and never have one because my previous one has always ran out13:55
zmoylan-pithat's why you carry 2.  one that is in use and one that has never been used so you always have >1 can of air13:56
zmoylan-piof course you look like a plonker with an air fixation... :-)13:56
zmoylan-piyou just tell people you're prepared in the event your office is ever attacked by sharks...14:00
* zmoylan-pi puts jaws onto tablet for later viewing as it's been ages...14:01
Azelphurzmoylan-pi: sadly it looks like the canless air system is pretty weak compared to compressed air :(14:14
zmoylan-piback to google...14:14
Azelphurstill might be an option, something to consider for sure :)14:14
Azelphuryea I seen that, sadly they don't make/sell them any more14:16
zmoylan-piin stock... http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW14:16
Azelphurmaybe a goer :(14:16
aquariusgiven three machines on the same wireless network (mine, at home; I am not invading anywhere), if boxA makes an http request to boxB, how can I dump the contents of that request and response on boxC?14:26
awilkinsboxC would need to be on the route somewhere14:27
aquariusah. darn.14:28
popeywhy does it need to be on box c?14:42
popeycan you not do the dump on a or b?14:42
Azelphuraquarius: if you have a decent router you can do it from there, I occasionally use my router and tcpdump to look at traffic going in/out of my Android devices14:43
aquariuspopey, because box a is an iphone and box b is my screencast dongle14:45
aquariusAzelphur, ah, that would have been a good idea. Don't think my bt home hub will do that, though :)14:46
aquariushm, I can just pretend to be the iphone and talk to the dongle, can't I?14:46
Azelphuraquarius: solution: don't have a crappy bt home hub :P14:46
Azelphuryou can get openwrt capable routers pretty cheap now days14:46
* aquarius grumbles. the dongle never replies. Wonder what I'm doing wrong?15:01
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)15:52
bigcalmpopey: splashed out on a Samsung HW-H355 soundbar from Tesco. It sounds so sweet in my tiny office now :)15:54
ali1234aquarius: disable wireless isolation and use wireshark15:57
ali1234you can pretend to be the iphone once you know what the iphone is sending...15:58
ali1234assuming box C is a ubuntu machine, you can plug it in to the home hub with a cable, and then put the wifi card in to AP mode, and then connect the A and B to that AP, then you can see all traffic easily16:00
zmoylan-pithe bt speakers are excellent except most of the time i want to listen to radio on phone so need headset as aerial anyway :-)16:31
brobostigoncould you create a pam rule, to specify that insted of needing a password for sudo, youd need a yubikey?16:58
brobostigonpresuming said person is on the suoers list.16:58
ali1234you could definitely write a PAM module to do that, if there isn't one already17:05
ali1234PAM = pluggable authentication modules, stuff like that is what it is for17:05
brobostigonyes, i looked at that, and got it working, but only want it to apply to sudo'able actions not for all authentication system wide.17:14
ali1234you can just sudo -s17:17
ali1234i suspect you can say "only use this module for sudo" with pam, that's not a specific yubikey question though... let me have a google17:18
popeybigcalm: is it on your desk under your monitor?17:42
ali1234brobostigon: apparently the pam_timestamp module is used only for sudo, it's the thing that allows you to use sudo without authenticating again if you already used it in the past 5 minutes17:45
ali1234so i'd say look at how that works17:45
ali1234so apparently you just need to put a rule in /etc/pam.d/sudo17:48
* penguin42 returns from his local LUGs 20th birthday meeting18:14
zmoylan-pidid you blow someones mind and casually return a slackware 1 install on 30 5.25" disks? :-)18:15
penguin42hehe no, although there was a suggestion we should see what we could get booting in VMs sometime18:16
=== MonsterKiller_ is now known as MonsterKiller
=== tsimpson_ is now known as tsimpson
hutchHi everyone19:02
SuperEngineer_hmm... keep getting "SuperEngineer is already in use...".  Who's the damn pretender & on what channel I wonder?!  [If this were twitter I'd end with #bludgeon-the-imposter ! ]19:04
hutchSuperEngineer_: try doing /msg NickServ identify <password>19:06
hutchin the server window19:06
SuperEngineer_hutch - thanks - guessed the secound bit!  :D ]19:06
SuperEngineer_just gonna log off & back in [yet again]19:09
TheBlackRussianHello guys, can you help me19:24
TheBlackRussianFinding it hard that this own is filled with people yet no one is replying nor chatting with each other.19:26
aquarius_you may want to say what you'd like help with.19:26
m0nkey_TheBlackRussian, most people are away or not looking. Just state your question. Wait and somebody might reply.19:27
=== DanChapman_ is now known as DanChapman
TheBlackRussianI have screen artifacts issues which can seen here  0 down vote favorite   https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpb8f40hfjsg9w0/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A13.png?dl=0  https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkzv64cpkpf7qqk/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A30.png?dl=019:29
TheBlackRussianhow do i fix19:29
penguin42TheBlackRussian: What graphics card/chip?19:34
TheBlackRussianintel q3519:35
penguin42hmm, don't think there's any alternate driver you can try for that19:36
TheBlackRussianwhat do you mean19:37
penguin42TheBlackRussian: But yes that does look like a graphics driver bug - what version of Ubuntu (I assume Ubuntu?)19:37
TheBlackRussianubuntu 14.10. I had ubuntu 14.04 before and i remember the first 2 days i had no screen artifacts19:37
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Sorry, not got many good suggestions; I'd report the bug against the xserver-xorg-video-intel package19:40
TheBlackRussianwhat do you mean?19:40
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Well, you should report the bug properly using the    ubuntu-bug  command19:41
penguin42TheBlackRussian: But I don't have many good suggestions how to fix it, if 14.04 works that's probably your best bet19:41
TheBlackRussianHow long will it take before a solution is found because i dont want these ugly screen artifacts to occur every 10 minutes. Also after installing Ubuntu 14.04  for the first 2 days it worked flawless until the 3rd day19:42
TheBlackRussianafter the 3rd day screen artifacts started to appear19:43
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Sorry, can't say how long it'll take to find a solution - I don't work on it, and it depends if you get lucky19:43
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Did the artifacts only start after an update?19:43
TheBlackRussianto be honest with you i dont have a clue, most likely probably19:44
SuperEngineer_hmm... can't stop this! Sorry to annoy y'all with all those logon/logoffs... guess I'm gonna have to get used to being SuperEngineer_ for a while!19:44
penguin42TheBlackRussian: OK, I'd take it back to 14.04, don't do any updates, and see if it works for a few days19:45
penguin42TheBlackRussian: If it keeps working then you need to do updates manually and figure out just which update breaks it, because then you can say to people exactly which thing breaks it, because then it's much more likely to get fixed19:45
SuperEngineer_[but y'all know I'm actually SuperEngineer - so what the heck ;)19:45
penguin42prove it19:46
zmoylan-piand you've unscored to prove the point... :-)19:46
SuperEngineer_[still gonna bludgeon the interloper though ;) ]19:46
TheBlackRussianwoah woah you want me to down grade?19:46
TheBlackRussianit will take ages to set it up19:46
SuperEngineer_penguin42, Easily proved - I'm the daftest bugger on this channel ;)19:47
penguin42SuperEngineer_: No way!19:47
SuperEngineer_yes way19:47
SuperEngineer_hang on - am I seeing netsplit here - could that be the reason???19:48
TheBlackRussianfair enough penguin i will downgrade but how i get rid of ubuntu 14.1019:50
penguin42SuperEngineer_: I'm not seeing anything here, but it might depend on the servers you're on19:51
SuperEngineer_in fact - just in case - I'm going down b-maybe try again tomorrow & see if I'm the real me19:51
TheBlackRussianGuys guys, i have a new question: How do i get rid of Ubuntu 14.10 and install Ubuntu 14.0419:54
arsenipstart from scratch :p19:55
arsenipanyone use gmail for personal domains? tempted to move to gmail for hosting (security/redundancy etc)19:56
TheBlackRussianhow can i start from scratch when all my hard drives had been divded up to install ubuntu 14.0419:56
arsenipnot sure i understand. if you have 14.10 installed, you can install 14.04 over it using the same partitions19:57
=== MooDoo is now known as Guest70650
TheBlackRussianby installing 14.04 over 14.10 everything about 14.10 will be removed correct?20:02
arsenipyou can format the partitions - but you need to be careful to pick the correct partitions (if you have other data on there). If you do have other data and you're unsure - defintely back it up first.20:03
aquarius_Ubuntu also allows you to install a new version while keeping your home folder intact, although I do not know if that applies to installing an older version over a newer one.20:04
TheBlackRussianokay thank you20:04
zmoylan-piit should offer to allow you to replace the existing ubuntu partition i think20:04
=== xnox_ is now known as xnox
foobarryaquarius_: port mirroring is possible on good switches20:05
foobarryre: your a->b question20:05
TheBlackRussianif i format the drive which has ubuntu 14.10 in it, does it mean i have to create drives again20:05
aquarius_foobarry, yeah. However, I have been banging my head against this all afternoon (I don't have a good switch, sadly), and now it's just putting my blood pressure up:)20:05
foobarryi've done it before to plot netflows20:06
foobarryall the traffic destined for b, also mirrored on c so you can gather data20:06
foobarryalso, Azelphur do you use compressed air for cleaning?20:06
foobarrycleaning inside PCs, or keybiards etc20:07
foobarry2 other options are to buy a HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner20:08
zmoylan-piproblem with vacuum cleaners is that they can generate static electricity which is bad when hoovering inside a pc.20:11
=== stgraber_ is now known as stgraber
foobarryrun netcat on hostc20:12
aquarius_foobarry, um?20:18
=== roht is now known as wadzi
Azelphurfoobarry: I've heard a compressor with a water filter on it is very good21:37
TheBlackRussianQuestion: After being told to reinstall Ubuntu 14.04 by penguin to try and rid of my ubuntu screen artifacts which i did, THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE.22:48
TheBlackRussianIts horrible seeing screen artifact ruin my desktop22:49
zmoylan-pia hardware fault that's just developed?22:49
TheBlackRussianhardware fault?22:49
zmoylan-pii'd try live distros to see if it manifests22:50
zmoylan-piwonky video ram a bunch of other things depending on the 'artifact'22:50
TheBlackRussianwhats a live distros? Do you mean try Ubuntu without CD?22:50
TheBlackRussianand a wonky video ram <- What do you mean by that?22:51
zmoylan-pithe disk you install most modern distros from or usb allow you to run the distro without installing it22:51
TheBlackRussianI tried it, worked flawless. Than the installed Ubuntu, screen artifact happens22:52
zmoylan-piwonky video ram = faulty video ram.  i've seen systems run with just tiny flaws in video ram causing errors22:52
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Something else you might want to try; another reinstall with 14.04 but make sure you untick the 'update during installation' box in the installer, just to make sure it's not pulling in any updates that are breaking things (or alternatively do the instlal without network connected)22:52
TheBlackRussianyou could have told me that before i reinstalled ubuntu eariler on22:53
TheBlackRussianalso i think when i typed in my ram in one of the drivers i didnt add all of my ram22:54
penguin42TheBlackRussian: True, sorry - but there again I've not hit someone who had this problem before22:54
zmoylan-piit looked like the upgrade to 14.10 was the problem earlier and that the problem would go away by falling back to 14.0422:55
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Hmm that thing about not adding all your RAM - best thing maybe is to boot into a memory test program (memtest86 I think it's on most Linux install CDs) and leave it running for a few hours22:55
TheBlackRussianwhat does memory test program do? And also i downgraded to 14.04. As i started eariler when i tried Ubuntu without installing it i had no problems what so ever. I was using it for over 1 hour before i installed ubuntu fully.22:56
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Memory test program tests for faulty memory22:56
TheBlackRussiancan i still use my desktop22:57
TheBlackRussianwhen doing the test22:57
penguin42not while that's running22:57
TheBlackRussianand it takes a few hours to complete the test?22:57
penguin42TheBlackRussian: The longer it runs the more thorough the test22:58
penguin42TheBlackRussian: Start it running before you go to bed, see if it finds anything by the time you wake up22:58
TheBlackRussiangive me 2 mins, i be back on "use ubuntu without installing it" to see if the problem is there was well22:59
ali1234what does the artifact look like?23:00
penguin42ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpb8f40hfjsg9w0/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-09%2019%3A54%3A13.png?dl=0   was the link he sent earlier23:01
penguin42ali1234: Driver or hardware, difficult to say23:01
ali1234looks like some pixels are offset there23:02
ali1234or swapped23:02
penguin42yeh, it's a bit odd23:02
ali1234look at the right side of the building23:02
ali1234a group of 8 pixels has been horizontally swapped23:03
ali1234with the ones immediately next to it23:03
ali1234or maybe 16 pixels23:03
ali1234that doesn't seem like something that could be caused by a hardware fault23:03
TheBlackRussianbefore i do that memory test you suggested do you have any other solutions to fix this issue23:03
ali1234it would require 1 bit of the address bus to be inverted23:04
ali1234this seems like an issue with textrure compression algorithms or something23:04
ali1234so i'm going to say driver fault23:04
TheBlackRussianwhat do you mean driver fault23:05
penguin42ali1234: Yeh, most likely, but broken RAM could prboably do it as well, but I'd have expected it to fail quicker23:05
zmoylan-pithat looks more gpu than video ram to my mind.  maybe a more conservative video setting23:05
ali1234i don't see how a hardware failure could swap over two memory locations like that23:05
ali1234bits generally get suck on or off, but not inverted23:06
ali1234i guess anything is possible though23:06
TheBlackRussiancould, at the moment im using "try ubuntu with installing" and i dont see no screen artifacts23:07
TheBlackRussian*could meant to be confused23:07
ali1234how long does it normally take before you see them and does it get worse over time?23:07
TheBlackRussian5 minutes23:07
TheBlackRussianand yes it gets worse23:07
ali1234okay, give it 10 minutes at least on live CD then23:07
TheBlackRussianto the point i want to through my computer out the window23:08
ali1234if you see nothing after, say, half an hour, then you are seeing a driver bug23:08
ali1234what version are you using?23:08
zmoylan-piisn't the live distro more cautious at hardware probing than a regular install?23:08
ali1234not really23:08
ali1234there is only one intel driver23:08
zmoylan-piintel drivers are usually fairly bulletproof23:09
ali1234heh, no23:09
TheBlackRussianthe last time i threw my computer at the window was when bt cut my internet off in the middle of a porn video23:09
ali1234i'm looking at FDO bugs but there's hundreds of graphics corruption bugs on intel at the moment23:12
TheBlackRussianafter that i refused to pay they god damn bill and told them to shove a pig up they arseholes.23:13
TheBlackRussianthen they sent some man to collect my bill so i paid up23:13
TheBlackRussianif this was in russia i would have chase him out and rob him23:14
ali1234ah ha23:14
ali1234https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=56003 looks familiar?23:14
lubotu3Freedesktop bug 45092 in DRM/Intel "[965GM] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Needinfo]23:14
lubotu3The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList23:14
TheBlackRussianthat was my old desktop23:15
TheBlackRussiani dont see russia in the languages23:16
ali1234well the good news is your computer isn't broken23:18
ali1234the bad news is "hardware issue that remains unsolved"23:18
ali1234there is a patch, but you would have to compile loads of stuff23:18
TheBlackRussianas long as i can see my girl in the desktop background in clear beauty than i dont mind23:19
ali1234here's another one: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2881323:22
ali1234seems to be a common problem23:22
lubotu3Freedesktop bug 28813 in DRM/Intel "[GM45] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Assigned]23:22
TheBlackRussianby installing this patch it gets rid of the screen artifact correct?23:23
TheBlackRussianso how do i install this23:23
ali1234depends if it is the right patch for your graphics card23:23
TheBlackRussianintel q3523:23
penguin42ali1234: Ah that does look like it doesn't it23:24
ali1234that is your motherboard chipset23:24
ali1234i don't know which GPU it has, the documentation is unclear and everything has to have multiple different code names of course23:24
TheBlackRussianyou want my gpu too23:25
ali1234apparently it is GMA410023:26
penguin42ali1234: It's a bit odd though, they're ancient bugs - I wonder why it only affects some Intel users23:26
ali1234sorry, GMA310023:26
ali1234because they have a different code path for every chipset?23:26
penguin42ali1234: Possible, I didn't think they were that uncommon though23:26
TheBlackRussianthe computer im using is from russia was made by a russian just to let you know. They dont know how to make computers mostly likely the guy was drunk when making my computer23:27
ali1234aparently it is also something to do with swapping23:27
ali1234"Note though that it's unclear from the documentation what this bit exactly does, and it has the potential to corrupt system memory (and not just graphics stuff). So I highly advise you to try this on a throw-away disk/installation." nice.23:28
ali1234yet another: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4617823:29
lubotu3Freedesktop bug 46178 in Driver/intel "[GM965] screen corruption after suspend/resume" [Minor,Resolved: duplicate]23:29
penguin42ali1234: Hmm possibly related to memory setup on the machine, so might explain why it doesn't affect all of us intel users23:29
TheBlackRussianis it worth noting i dont see any screen artifact after 26 mins of using "try ubuntu without installing". Also i dont mind trying the things you provide as long as it doesnt KILL MY COMPUTER.23:29
ali1234TheBlackRussian: well, all i can do is repeat to you what the bug reports say23:30
ali1234i don't know much about intel graphics, i don't use it23:30
ali1234in order to test this stuff you would need to recompile the kernel from source, it isn't and easy or fast thing to do23:30
TheBlackRussiantrust me man, im russian. A russian can do anything. What do i have to do to fix this crap23:31
ali1234whatever it says on the bug reports...23:31
penguin42In that case I'm sure they can read bug reports23:31
TheBlackRussianno they cant read english, where does it say the steps to do the patchs23:32
ali1234it doesn't, it just says "test this patch"23:33
TheBlackRussianwhere does it say that?23:33
TheBlackRussiani dont see what your seeing23:36
lubotu3Freedesktop bug 45092 in DRM/Intel "[965GM] broken swizzling in swap-in/out paths/L-shaped memory swizzling" [Normal,Needinfo]23:36
TheBlackRussianim on it, now where it does say "test this patch"23:37
ali1234in the final comment23:37
ali1234https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=81971 is the patch23:37
TheBlackRussianokay today is alien to me. How do i install23:38
ali1234you get the source code for ubuntu kernel, apply the patch, then rebuild it23:38
ali1234then build a deb and install it23:38
TheBlackRussianmy friend, i seriously confused. What is source code? what is ubuntu kernal? how do i apply the patch? how do i rebuild it? how do i build a deb and how do i install it?23:39
ali1234the documentation for that is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile23:39
ali1234i told you it wasn't easy...23:39
TheBlackRussianit is easy my friend, now tell me what do i do it23:40
TheBlackRussianim just testing you, you know23:40
TheBlackRussianis it worth saying my computer froze for 2 seconds, afterwards screen artifact appeared. This is try ubuntu without installing by the way23:42
TheBlackRussianis that good?23:43
ali1234not really.23:43
TheBlackRussianis that really bad? Because i want to get rid of this bloody screen artifact23:44
ali1234no, it just means you can't keep using an old version until they fix it23:46
TheBlackRussianim using a old version or do i have to use a old versiob23:48
ali1234you're using 14.04 live cd right? that is an old version23:49
TheBlackRussiani got it from the ubuntu website23:50
TheBlackRussianplus its a usb23:50
TheBlackRussian*its on a usb23:50
ali1234doesn't matter23:50
TheBlackRussianwhats the latest verison23:50
TheBlackRussianso i must try to REINSTALL 14.10 AGAIN? Is that what your saying my friend.23:51
ali1234no, it won't work23:51
ali1234you must recompile kernel (any version) with the patch from intel developers23:52
TheBlackRussianand how do i do that23:52
ali1234follow the instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile23:52
TheBlackRussianlooks scary plus i dont know what to do23:53
TheBlackRussianWhile it is a learning experience to compile your own kernel, you will not be allowed to file bugs on the custom-built kernel (if you do, they will be Rejected without further explanation).23:54
TheBlackRussianReasons for compiling a custom kernel      You are a kernel developer.     You need the kernel compiled in a special way, that the official kernel is not compiled in (for example, with some experimental feature enabled).     You are attempting to debug a problem in the stock Ubuntu kernel for which you have filed or will file a bug report.     You have hardware the stock Ubuntu kernel does not support.     You love comput23:54
ali1234such is life :(23:54
ali1234"You are attempting to debug a problem in the stock Ubuntu kernel for which you have filed or will file a bug report." <- this is you23:55
penguin42ali1234: It's odd, are any of those fdo bugs suggesting the fix is upstream - they seem quite old23:55
ali1234no, and the final comment about testing is from one month ago23:55
penguin42oh, that's not too bad I guess23:55
TheBlackRussianhow do i fix this problemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm23:55
penguin42ali1234: Acttually, that bug is very good, Chris Wilson is one of the Intel graphics devs I remember, so if someone does test that patch it's got a good chance23:56
ali1234the patch itself is 18 months old23:57
ali1234might not even apply on a recent kernel23:57
TheBlackRussianso how do i fix my problem23:58
penguin42TheBlackRussian: I'm sorry there is no known fix, there is a possible fix for someone who knows how to build kernels23:59
penguin42TheBlackRussian: If you can't build a kernel, then I'm sorry, but you'll have to live with the bug23:59

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