[00:01] <awilkins> Hmm. Wonder if it will magically update existing packages
[00:01] <awilkins> (hahahahahahah)
[00:05] <directhex> https://vote.debian.org/~secretary/gr_initcoupling/results.png
[00:06] <diddledan> directhex: is that the results of their voting?
[00:06] <daftykins> that looks like the creation of a madman
[00:06] <diddledan> so out of discussion they've decided to discuss
[00:06] <daftykins> i don't understand that image at all XD
[00:07] <diddledan> nor me - the numbers don't add up
[00:07] <directhex> condorcet voting
[00:07] <diddledan> I think the arrows are back-asswards
[00:08] <directhex> the arrows mean "more votes than". so the one with only outwards arrows won.
[00:08] <diddledan> so they've decided to not do anything?
[00:08] <directhex> or just go with the score. higher score = better. 3.77 was highest
[00:08] <diddledan> i.e. general resultion not required
[00:08] <directhex> diddledan, basically, yes
[00:08] <diddledan> spelign
[00:09] <daftykins> does that mean "nothing needs to be done" ? :P
[00:09] <diddledan> I guess that means systemd is still going to be implemented as the only initd?
[00:10] <directhex> it means the previous TC vote stands
[00:10] <directhex> which said systemd by default, others ideally supported as alternatives
[00:15] <diddledan> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/certificate-authority-encrypt-entire-web
[00:20] <awilkins> Oh dear, if that works, Verisign and the like will be weeing their pants
[00:31] <awilkins> Ugh, I hate Ant builds
[00:32] <awilkins> Especially ones that use jars without version numbers on them
[00:32] <awilkins> *stabs Ant*
[00:32] <awilkins> Beditme
[05:50] <map> hi all
[05:52] <diddledan> morning
[05:53] <map> anyone watch gotham ? on e3
[05:53] <map> also anyone watch the vids vice make and ut on youtube? some interesting videos thats for sure
[07:18] <Myrtti> morning UK
[07:19] <zmoylan-pi> greetings earthlings
[07:49] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:04] <diplo> Morning all
[08:04] <diplo> map, yeah i watch Gotham.. good series so far
[08:08] <MooDoo> i watched the first ep, not seen anything after that.
[08:08] <diplo> I'm enjoying it so far
[08:09] <MooDoo> so many things i'm watching at the moment though
[08:24] <knightwise> morning everyone
[08:29] <MooDoo> morning knightwise
[08:30] <knightwise> hey MooDoo how are you today
[08:34] <MooDoo> knightwise: i'm very well thanks mate, what about your good self?
[08:35] <knightwise> doin ok  preparing a talk on the importance of open source application design for a barcamp tomorrow
[08:41] <MooDoo> cool :)
[08:42] <knightwise> yep , trying to crunch it down into a 20 minute talk with as few slides as possible
[08:46] <zmoylan-pi> more glove puppets :-)
[08:48] <MooDoo> knightwise: just use two, hello i am and bye :D
[08:48] <knightwise> LOL :) good idea
[09:10] <knightwise> googled up an interesting document about the pyramid principle
[09:10] <knightwise> its a way of storytelling .. interesting stuff
[09:15] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:16] <popey> yo
[09:17] <knightwise> lord popey  !
[09:17] <popey> word
[09:19] <bashrc> morning all
[09:19] <knightwise> hey bashrc
[09:23] <DJones> bigcalm: Whats up, couldn't you sleep? You don't normally say that until about 3pm
[09:25] <bigcalm> :P
[09:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Have A Bad Day Day! :-D
[09:36] <zmoylan-pi> if you have a bad day day does that mean it's a good day?
[09:37] <JamesTait> That'd be a bad bad day, surely?
[09:38]  * zmoylan-pi buys lottery ticket and makes offering to gods of fortune
[09:46] <awilkins> Gah, just worked out how to get NetworkManager to connect to more than one VPN at once
[09:46] <awilkins> Open "Network" settings dialog. Enable VPN connections from there
[09:47] <awilkins> For some reason the NM tray applet greys out the menu items for the other VPN connections when you connect one
[09:47] <awilkins> That's just ANNOYING
[09:50]  * JamesTait is reminded he has a VPN to set up.
[09:52] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:54] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[09:54] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[10:04] <popey> 37
[10:04] <brobostigon> 42
[10:04] <foobarry> bingo!
[10:41] <bigcalm> Is there a way to see if traffic is going via a VPN or via the 'net at large?
[10:44] <awilkins> Traceroute?
[10:45] <Myrtti> nethog
[10:56]  * popey installs nethogs
[10:56] <popey> ooh thats neato
[10:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: look at the routing table on the device terminating the vpn: ip route show
[10:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you can also use wireshark / tcpdump to see which interface the traffic is going out on
[11:01] <foobarry> and iptraf
[11:01] <foobarry> and mtr
[11:07] <bigcalm> I'm using mtr
[11:21] <foobarry> popey: are you on ubuntu mate team now?
[11:21] <foobarry> http://www.itworld.com/article/2848475/ubuntu-mate-enterprise-customers.html
[11:29] <popey> I kinda started it, so yeah ☻
[11:34] <foobarry> heh
[11:40] <MooDoo> Can't say i've used it yet
[11:41] <daftykins> a friend jumped at the chance when i mentioned it
[11:41] <MooDoo> lts normal will do me for now
[11:43] <daftykins> i like the way that guy refers to it running on a Pentium III with 512MB RAM
[11:43] <daftykins> i'm not sure i'd force my worst enemies into that situation
[11:43] <awilkins> Anyone know a way to block *outgoing* profanity in XChat ?
[11:43] <awilkins> Like, sometimes I accidentally swear in here
[11:44] <awilkins> I have channels open where swearing is part of the culture
[11:44] <daftykins> lol
[11:44] <awilkins> And then we have channels where it's not
[11:44] <awilkins> Like this one, like any channel I'm conducting business on
[11:45] <awilkins> I guess I could write some kind of plugin like an incoming profanity filter in reverse
[11:46] <popey> I have Ubuntu MATE running on a thinkpad here. It's really nice.
[11:47] <foobarry> do you still use unity much?
[11:47] <popey> of course
[11:48] <popey> my main machine is running unity
[11:48] <popey> I haven't stopped using unity since it came out
[11:52] <awilkins> Does Ubuntu MATE put the window chrome buttons on the left like Unity?
[11:52] <popey> no
[11:52] <awilkins> I confess, I've got used to that and even think it makes more sense than the right
[11:52] <popey> yeah, its funning how the whole bruhaha happened over that
[11:52] <awilkins> You close an app, the next thing you do is open another
[11:53] <daftykins> that's the stockholm syndrome ;)
[11:53] <awilkins> Makes sense with the dash / start menu / whatever being close to the close button
[11:53] <awilkins> Windows has the absolute worst config with Start bottom left and close top right
[11:53] <awilkins> The furthest distance to move your mouse
[11:53] <awilkins> Unity : Combatting RSI since <whenever>
[11:53] <daftykins> you actually use the mouse to do that? interesting
[11:53] <awilkins> Not always
[11:54] <popey> many people do.
[11:54] <awilkins> Exactly
[11:54] <popey> keyboard shortcuts are alien to normals
[11:54] <awilkins> If you don't, then you don't care
[11:54] <awilkins> If you do, then it matters
[11:54] <daftykins> yeah, them pesky normals
[11:55] <daftykins> i do remember a non-tech type saying it's a bit odd with Windows that you go to "start" to stop the machine
[11:55] <daftykins> :>
[11:57] <awilkins> That was easy compared to how it was on Windows 8 to start wiht
[11:57] <daftykins> haha yeah, i had to look that up!
[11:57] <daftykins> it was as though they sacked every UX designer they had
[11:58] <awilkins> I mean, MS even has a VIDEO of how to do it now
[11:58] <awilkins> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/how-shut-down-turn-off-pc
[11:59] <awilkins> A 43 second video
[11:59] <awilkins> With three different ways to do it
[11:59] <awilkins> ARRRGH
[11:59] <zmoylan-pi> and you probably need to install a different media player to view it...
[11:59] <foobarry> and it has weezer singing a song
[11:59] <awilkins> No, actually works here on Firefox
[11:59] <zmoylan-pi> or at least 1gb of updates and sp
[12:00] <awilkins> Although ... if you hit META and type "Power off" or "shut down" into the dash, it doesn't offer the option
[12:00] <awilkins> That's a small omission in Unity methinks
[12:00]  * zmoylan-pi misses the days when the power button was a power button
[12:01] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: do i detect the air of bias and cynicism in your comments? ;)
[12:01] <zmoylan-pi> just a smidge
[12:01] <daftykins> Unity and 8 are equally ridiculous to me
[12:01] <diddledan> the power button is often suspend I guess, but it does reduce power usage and make the pc appear to turn off
[12:02] <awilkins> I hate that as default config
[12:02] <awilkins> UNity at least has that right - powerbutton summons the "What KIND of shutdown do you want" thing
[12:02] <zmoylan-pi> i have never used suspend intentionally, waste of battery/power
[12:02] <awilkins> Yeah - the default mode for Windows is a poor choice for laptops
[12:03] <awilkins> i) It sucks the battery power
[12:03] <awilkins> ii) At some indeterminate point it does a hibernate
[12:03] <awilkins> Which is a terrible idea on a laptop
[12:03] <awilkins> Having your laptop power up in your laptop bag where it can't vent heat
[12:04] <awilkins> And spinning a disk on something that may be moving rapidly and subject to shocks
[12:04] <daftykins> why would it power up?
[12:04] <zmoylan-pi> and sucking in all the bag fuzz to clog vents too
[12:04] <awilkins> To do a hibernate
[12:04] <diddledan> I don't like the installation routing of ubuntu finishing and saying "would you like to reboot or continue using the live dvd?" when you click reboot it doesn't immediately reboot instead offering you the standard "would you like to power off or reboot?" screen
[12:04] <awilkins> Hibernate saves the RAM state to disk
[12:04] <daftykins> power up to hibernate? wat
[12:04] <zmoylan-pi> when the battery gets low the laptop will power up to hibernate
[12:05] <zmoylan-pi> while in suspend
[12:05] <popey> I just tap the power button to shutdown
[12:05] <popey> have done for years
[12:05] <awilkins> I do that for laptops now
[12:05] <daftykins> i'm thoroughly aware of how power management operates, but why on earth are you surrendering such control to Windows defaults 0o
[12:05] <awilkins> Oh, I don't
[12:05] <awilkins> Windows is no longer in charge of any of the hardware I run
[12:05] <popey> daftykins: power up to hibernate is a useful trick
[12:05] <awilkins> It's confined to VMs like it should be
[12:06] <daftykins> power up from what though, sleep? i don't see how this ever happens
[12:06] <popey> yes
[12:06] <popey> OSX does it too
[12:06] <awilkins> Oh, except my main desktop where I have a dualboot for games
[12:06] <popey> I dont think Linux ever got it working
[12:06] <daftykins> OSX doesn't even let you disable lid close sleep in the GUI, that's a crime
[12:06] <awilkins> Urrgh
[12:06] <awilkins> I like to rest my laptop on a pedestal and RDP / SSH / Whatever into it
[12:06] <diddledan> daftykins, osx will stay turned-on if you leave it plugged-in
[12:07] <awilkins> With the lid closed
[12:09] <daftykins> i think the only time i use suspend is if i'm going out for an hour and know i'll be back
[12:09] <daftykins> like if i pop out into town beside me here
[12:09] <diddledan> said arnie
[12:12] <daftykins> I'll be Bach.
[12:12] <popey> wifey leaves her mbp suspended all the time. i suspend my laptop and desktop all the time.
[12:12]  * popey ♥ Fn+F4
[12:12] <foobarry> i used to turn my phone off completely at night
[12:12] <popey>  12:12:50 up 9 days,  3:57,  4 users,  load average: 0.60, 0.73, 0.84
[12:12] <popey> on my laptop
[12:13] <popey> usually longer, think I had a catastrophic failure last week.
[12:15] <daftykins> there's something odd about being sent an email to confirm you've been unsubscribed from something
[12:16] <awilkins> Can someone go to https://appear.in/horse-meat  with Chromium or Chrome and see if they can get their camera / mic to work?
[12:17] <awilkins> I can get it to work in Firefox
[12:17] <awilkins> BUT
[12:17] <awilkins> The screen sharing only works in Chrome
[12:17] <diplo> On linux specifically ? No camera/mic on my Linux PC
[12:17] <awilkins> diplo, Could you try it in Windows?
[12:18] <awilkins> I should install Chrome in my Windows VM..
[12:18] <awilkins> I can't get the "access camera / mic : allow" permissions to work
[12:18] <awilkins> They show up in the relevant dialogs and settings pages
[12:18] <awilkins> but when you visit the page you get the "no access" icon on the right of the address bar and it doesn't work
[12:18] <awilkins> Even if you allow it right there and reload the page
[12:19] <diplo> OK I', om tjere
[12:19] <daftykins> i've got chrome on Windows open
[12:19] <daftykins> awilkins: just got a massive 'connecting to server...' message here
[12:19] <awilkins> Yeah, me too
[12:19] <daftykins> there we go it's asking for access to my devices
[12:20] <awilkins> Trying it on Firefox
[12:20] <awilkins> Firefox works for the devices
[12:20] <awilkins> But no screen sharing plugin for it
[12:20] <daftykins> do you want to see a screenie of what it looks like at this point?
[12:20] <awilkins> Mine is now waiting
[12:21] <diplo> Asks me to install a screen sharing pluging
[12:21] <diplo> I'm still all alone
[12:21] <diplo> :(
[12:21] <awilkins> I'm coming in
[12:21] <daftykins> "preparing..."
[12:21] <awilkins> "Preparing : Hang on on tight"
[12:21] <daftykins> it's umm
[12:21] <awilkins> Perhaps they have capacity issues
[12:21] <daftykins> a rapid experience
[12:21] <awilkins> It worked fine yesterday
[12:22] <diplo> I went straight in pretty much
[12:22] <diplo> No real issues
[12:23] <diplo> Excuse me if you catch me eaating :P
[12:23] <awilkins> Ta
[12:23] <daftykins> :D
[12:23] <daftykins> i feel like staying on so diplo doesn't feel disappointed
[12:23] <awilkins> Linux needs more WebConf love
[12:24] <awilkins> WebEx : works (mostly) if you prepare a special 32-bit Java and Firefox environment for it
[12:24] <awilkins> GotoMeeting : until recently, no chance
[12:24] <awilkins> But I hear they have a WebRTC client done or in the pipe
[12:24] <diplo> Mine has gone to Connecting to server now
[12:24] <awilkins> appear.in : uses WebRTC so should be perfect
[12:24] <daftykins> woohoo
[12:24] <daftykins> diplo: don't worry i'm still there! :)
[12:25] <awilkins> But no screen sharing except Chrome
[12:25] <awilkins> And Chrom(e|ium) doesn't  work for me here
[12:25] <diplo> You're there now and I can't reconnect
[12:25] <diplo> Seems to be limited to 1 person
[12:25] <awilkins> May get out my 14.10 laptop and try that
[12:25] <awilkins> But first, lunch
[12:27] <daftykins> diplo: ah, not working then?
[12:28] <daftykins> ah well i shall close it now
[12:30] <diplo> Nope still connecting
[12:30] <diplo> Sorry went to get a brew
[12:32]  * popey tries to remember how he last copied windows from disk to disk using gparted
[12:33] <popey> might have used dd last time I did it
[12:33] <popey> want to move last remaining windows pc from spinning rust to SSD
[12:35] <daftykins> clonezilla \o/
[12:36] <daftykins> i did a couple of SSD upgrades for a friend and his missus recently, used a bootable clonezilla on a flash drive to shift them over
[12:36] <daftykins> it's better than dd since i think it was wise enough to only copy actual data
[12:40] <diplo> Got syncthing working between home server and work PC, now going to try windows PC and work PC
[12:40] <popey> \o/
[12:40] <popey> I do love syncthing
[12:44] <diplo> Defo easier to use since the last time I used it
[12:44] <foobarry> knives are out for bill cosby
[12:44] <popey> why?
[12:44] <diplo> Guessing the why wasn't at me ?
[12:45] <diplo> Next issue is to get all 3 devices to start on boot/restart etc
[12:45] <foobarry> Janice Dickinson accuses Bill Cosby of drugging and sexually assaulting her
[12:45] <diplo> But  Iguess I should do some work in between
[12:46] <foobarry> She is fifth woman to publicly accuse the comedian and actor of sexual abuse.
[12:46] <popey> blimey
[12:46] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30100973
[12:46] <popey> lulz
[12:46] <popey> 100£ fine for leaving bad reviews
[12:46] <popey> we should do that in Ubuntu :D
[12:47] <foobarry> "aid the details of the charge were in the booking documents, but his wife did not have her glasses on and signed it without reading the small print."
[12:47] <foobarry> if you download ubuntu for free you will fix 5 bugs in the first year of use or it will delete all your datas
[12:50] <diplo> I now have the same Calibre Library on 3 machines, just need to sort the laptop out at home
[12:53] <foobarry> the hotel plan has backfired
[12:53] <foobarry> as most people will now remember it as a rotten stinking hovel
[13:05] <foobarry> have just finished re-reading the whole hitchhikers guide series
[13:07] <DJones> popey: Have you seen this article http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/jolla-tablet-linux-based-os-crowdfunding thought it might be of interest to you
[13:08] <popey> yeah, been keeping an eye on it today
[13:08] <popey> went from 0 to target in 2.5 hours
[13:09] <DJones> Looks interesting, although nothing new (from whats in the article) compared to other tablets
[13:09] <popey> well, the sailfish bit is new
[13:10] <DJones> Price looks good, and if its linux compatible, in theory, ubuntu shouldn't take too long for somebody to work out how to install
[13:11] <daftykins> yay another swathe of youngsters shall flood #ubuntu asking how to mod their tablets
[13:11]  * daftykins groans
[13:12] <DJones> daftykins: Just point them to #ubuntu-touch popey can deal with them then
[13:13] <popey> heh
[13:13] <popey> thats usually what happens
[13:13] <DJones> Probably still a bit of a speciality area
[13:13] <daftykins> oh, that's the plan yeah ;)
[13:14] <DJones> The average, even experienced Ubuntu user probably has little knowledge of tablet releases
[13:14] <popey> I'd quite like Ubuntu on my hudl2
[13:16] <DJones> I'm still trying to poke a broken N7 to see I can fire it into life to put ubuntu on
[13:16] <daftykins> DJones: heh, is it one of those ones with the bad battery connector?
[13:17] <DJones> Don't think so, it just died, can get to the system screen, but can't force a reset or anything, beyond that it doesn't do anything
[13:18] <daftykins> a friend had one that'd been dead for months, i looked it up and suggested he pop the back panel off and check this connector
[13:18] <daftykins> it was working again within 30 mins \o/
[13:18] <DJones> Trying to force the battery to run down completely to see if 0 power followed by a recharge would work
[13:19] <DJones> It seems to charge ok, just won't go into a reset mode
[13:20] <daftykins> oic
[13:20] <foobarry> find it interesting how these indian fellows who stumble into -uk always attach themselves to popey like a limpet
[13:20] <daftykins> :D haha yes they do
[13:20] <foobarry> its a bit of a free for all in here really
[13:20] <daftykins> although it doesn't help that 3+ of us are all throwing instructions at once
[13:20] <foobarry> if you are helping someone, and someone else has a suggestion, then go for it
[13:21] <foobarry> often it does help though
[13:21] <foobarry> obviously not bombarding
[13:21] <popey> hehe
[13:21] <daftykins> nah trust me, when someone's treading on my toes in #ubuntu it can be seriously rage inducing
[13:21] <daftykins> especially as invariably they have very different approaches to the same issue
[13:21] <foobarry> but other chans as soon as someone answers you, if they don't know the answer, you have to go away for a day and try again, because nobody else will touch it
[13:22] <foobarry> #ubuntu is a motorwy though, you need highlights for every thing typed
[13:22] <foobarry> i mean nicks
[13:23] <foobarry> low traffic chans should allow multi assist
[13:23] <daftykins> but that's how you know when someone's helping someone already :)
[13:23] <daftykins> well if you look back to yesterday when that chap came in, nothing was getting followed
[13:23] <daftykins> it was pretty painful
[13:23] <foobarry> yeah
[13:24] <foobarry> we used to have another guy come in and just ask for opopey
[13:24] <foobarry> and wouldn't accept help from anyone else
[13:24] <daftykins> sounds like saafiyah ;)
[13:24] <foobarry> maybe dvrr, i can't remember
[13:24] <daftykins> ever since popey helped with a custom EDID she was smitten :>
[13:26] <foobarry> did the rasp pi cluster ever get finished?
[13:26] <foobarry> "build cluster"
[13:28] <daftykins> the other Alans seem suspiciously quiet actually
[13:28] <daftykins> not seen TheOpenSourcerer in a while either
[13:28] <foobarry> maybe they have been enslaved by it
[13:29] <foobarry> is anyone using chromecasts in an office encironment to throw their desktop onto a screen in ad-hoc fashion?
[13:29] <daftykins> if anyone sees them in hats with the 'pi' symbol on, it's time for an intervention :)
[13:43] <MooDoo> what a day what a day
[13:47] <daftykins> oh?
[13:48]  * zmoylan-pi has been thinking a a+ in a baseball cap with a hud of some sort...
[13:50] <MooDoo> daftykins: just a busy one
[13:50] <daftykins> ah-har
[13:50] <daftykins> i'm open to trades... i have nothing on right now
[13:50] <daftykins> :>
[13:52] <MooDoo> lol :) access + label printer...;)
[13:53] <daftykins> that's what you're up to? you're on your own!
[13:53] <MooDoo> lol
[14:06] <daftykins> mmm lunch
[14:06] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4gp3gsi3fb4pyd/IMG_20141119_140545.jpg?dl=0
[14:12] <SuperMatt> that's not a lunch, that's the starter I have with my lunch
[14:13] <daftykins> yeah it is but part of it :)
[14:13] <daftykins> i have some welsh cakes downstairs
[14:15] <awilkins> Welshcakes nom
[14:16] <MooDoo> bacon and cheese turnover i've just had
[14:17] <daftykins> hmm interesting
[14:18] <daftykins> i was going to be good and walk to the supermarket to buy sandwich provisions, but instead i want to yet another sandwich bar and bought a latté, bounty choc bar and that panini for £7 odd
[14:18] <MooDoo> need to drive to the nearest aldi i do,
[14:19]  * zmoylan-pi hiked to tescos and bought spaghetti and bogroll.
[14:19]  * awilkins bought 2 reduced steak pasties and a christmas cake bar
[14:19] <awilkins> And 3 bottles of cider
[14:19] <awilkins> Cider is for LATER
[14:19]  * awilkins lug lug lug
[14:20] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i always wonder when combining toilet paper with a single other item, whether the cashiers think that you predict trouble
[14:20] <daftykins> :D
[14:20] <zmoylan-pi> yes i believe the thing to do is buy nappies and vodka and when told the price ask for just the vodka :-p
[14:22]  * daftykins doesn't follow
[14:22] <zmoylan-pi> the look of disgust when you leave with the vodka and not the nappies...
[14:23] <daftykins> i need to carry on with that edX Linux course
[14:23] <daftykins> not touched it since i got out of hospital
[14:27] <zmoylan-pi> hope you're feeling better
[14:28] <daftykins> yeah pretty much back to normal now thanks :)
[14:29] <daftykins> last night i rode to the pub quiz 3 miles away and back for the first time
[14:29] <daftykins> still can't move my right arm behind my back as much as my left can, due to the shoulder blade break, but meh who does that :D
[14:34] <zmoylan-pi> but you'll never be able to use the phrase 'with one hand tied behind my back' with out clarification :-p
[14:35] <daftykins> haha
[14:43] <daftykins> here have some geek porn
[14:43] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7upq3eh9eqv718t/IMG_20140518_195643.jpg?dl=0
[14:45] <bashrc> too many drives
[14:46] <daftykins> 5 in the enclosure at the bottom
[14:46] <daftykins> the 6 at the top are the old array, i don't even run that anymore
[14:46] <daftykins> 6 x 1TB disks doing nothing ;x
[14:46] <daftykins> they've mostly all been spinning 24x7 for 6 years though, so they'll probably die soon
[14:52] <zmoylan-pi> in return for your geek porn, 2 business near me that shouldn't be side by side... https://www.dropbox.com/s/5kb0d4z1icmn9iq/Photo-0048.takeaway%20n%20vet.jpg?dl=0
[14:56] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hahaha nice
[14:56] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: reminds me of the classic "no we no see your cat, stop asking"
[14:57] <zmoylan-pi> and don't be shortsighted when dropping off kitty...
[14:58] <daftykins> D:
[14:58] <daftykins> speaking of kitty, she wasn't letting me type yesterday
[14:58] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/llwm86xw9dzqznz/IMG_20141117_225208.jpg?dl=0
[14:58] <daftykins> Monday, rather
[14:59] <zmoylan-pi> laptops give off heat, you can see the moggies confusion
[15:42] <foobarry> can anyone recommend a evernote client they use?
[15:42] <foobarry> non-web
[15:43] <popey> i use the web ☻
[15:43] <foobarry> can't export to pdf :S
[15:44] <foobarry> hmm geeknote looks interseting for other uses
[15:45] <foobarry> edit evernotes with vim/etc
[15:45] <daftykins> aww yeah just helped setup Google Apps... in German
[15:52] <foobarry> evrpad has unity lens if you like that kind of thing
[16:03] <Azelphur> How do I defrag a NTFS partition on Linux?
[16:10] <daftykins> is it really worth risking?
[16:12] <awilkins> Azelphur, Make a Windows VM. Mount the partition as a physical volume in the VM. Use the Windows defrag util.
[16:13] <Azelphur> daftykins: yup, there's practically no data on the drive and no windows partition
[16:14] <daftykins> no windows partition? huh? oh it's a pure data NTFS volume?
[16:14] <popey> Azelphur: copy stuff off, copy it back on.
[16:15] <Azelphur> popey: I actually really need NTFS defrag, I have some very weird circumstances
[16:15] <popey> well copy off,delete, copy on will defrag it
[16:15] <Azelphur> popey: it doesn't, at least not according to the drive
[16:16] <Azelphur> since I just made a brand new partition and copied files onto it and it's still demanding I defrag
[16:16] <popey> whats demanding it?
[16:16] <daftykins> isn't there a package of kinda windowsy disk utils?
[16:16] <daftykins> no idea if defrag is a part of that
[16:17] <Azelphur> popey: http://www.zalman.com/global/product/Product_Read.php?Idx=674
[16:17] <popey> ah that
[16:17] <Azelphur> popey: the images on the drive need to be continuous in order for it to work
[16:17] <popey> yes, i had that too
[16:17] <popey> copy one file onto it at a time
[16:25] <Azelphur> popey: ah, thanks :)
[16:26] <popey> np
[16:29] <daftykins> defrag definitely wouldn't have sorted that methinks
[16:51] <directhex> i don't think linux has an ntfs fscker
[16:53] <daftykins> and the pheasant fscker is busy
[16:53]  * daftykins whistles
[18:25] <daftykins> is it me, or vmware... that dragging windows to the left and right of your desktop in 14.04 unity requires more than just letting go of the mouse button once the orangey box appears to suggest your window will be snapped to 50% of your visible desktop?
[18:25] <daftykins> seems you have to click too
[18:44] <aquarius> daftykins, I can confirm that it doesn't happen if you're not in vmware, so I suspect it's a vmware issue
[18:48] <daftykins> ty sir
[18:49] <daftykins> heh, this edX course is talking about "pushd" and "popd" - i can't think of how those would ever be useful
[18:52] <popey> heh
[18:53]  * popey read a script by aquarius which used push and pop just yesterday
[18:53] <popey> which turned into a blog post
[18:53] <daftykins> :O
[18:53] <aquarius> I properly love pushd
[18:53] <aquarius> use it *all the time*
[18:53]  * popey fondly remembers push and pop in his Z80 days
[18:55] <daftykins> i don't hugely get it, you're adding a stack of directories - fair enough, but they disappear when you switch to another
[18:56] <daftykins> i thought it would be useful maybe if you permanently kept that list, sort of like 'bookmarks' that you can then repeatedly jump between
[18:56] <daftykins> but what's the use if you're removing it from the list immediately?
[18:56] <popey> you only need them temporarily
[18:57] <popey> more ephermeral than bookmarks
[18:57] <aquarius> ya
[18:58] <aquarius> I'm in the middle of doing something, so I'm in ~/Projects/Something, and I think: hm, I want to check my pictures for a thing. It might take a bunch of commands, so I don't want to have to do "command ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/*.jpg" over and over, because typing the ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/ every time is annoying
[18:58] <aquarius> so I pushd ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/
[18:58] <aquarius> do the commands
[18:59] <aquarius> then popd
[18:59] <aquarius> and I'm back where I was
[18:59] <aquarius> it basically saves you one command: cd ~/back/to/where/I/was, plus the mental energy required to *remember* where you were
[18:59] <aquarius> neither are hugely significant, but, hey, I use ls rather than reading stuff out of /dev/kmem for the same reason ;)
[19:00] <daftykins> would that not be more relevant to a 2+ directory scenario, since "cd -" could've sufficed?
[19:00] <aquarius> huh
[19:00] <aquarius> might have, if I'd known that existed :)
[19:00] <daftykins> in fairness it's a new one on me XD
[19:00] <aquarius> I think I've pushd'ed two levels deep once :)
[19:00] <daftykins> that's why i'm doing this course, despite being an intro it's got some gems
[19:03] <daftykins> ooh i like this file streams and IO redirection section
[19:18] <daftykins> 1) cat goes outside 2) cat comes to window 3) cat paws at window wanting to be inside
[19:24] <DJones> daftykins: Get a dog, 1) Dog goes outside, 3( Owner goes to door, 3) Owner goes outside to fetch dog in
[19:25] <DJones> s/3(/2)/
[19:27] <daftykins> :D
[19:28] <DJones> Oh and if you get the dog, your 1/2/3 would stop at 2 with 3 changing to cat hides up a tree
[21:01] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3qj9v4p5ckqien/IMG_20141119_205927.jpg?dl=0
[21:01] <daftykins> this is a bit of a hinderance to study
[21:02] <daftykins> there's only so long i can practice the 'cat' command *whistle*
[21:22] <shauno> kill (1)             - send a signal to a process
[21:22] <daftykins> you want me to kill cat ? D:
[21:23] <shauno> it's badly named .. there's more than one signal you can send :)
[21:24] <daftykins> where did you paste that from?
[21:28] <intrbiz> daftykins: man page probably
[21:28] <intrbiz> you could always: cat < poke
[21:28] <daftykins> man kill cat
[21:30] <intrbiz> :)
[21:44] <diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
[21:44] <diddledan> :-p
[21:48] <daftykins> diddledan: :D
[21:49] <shauno> daftykins: that was 'apropos kill', hence the awkward gap.  it's the same content as the first line of the manpage though
[21:52] <intrbiz> reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW-kjpZPTnw
[22:06] <daftykins> that was terrible :(
[22:47] <popey> \o/ dd success
[22:48] <daftykins> but all those wasted writes :(
[22:48] <popey> dont care ☻
[22:48] <daftykins> it'd be relevant were it an SSD
[22:49] <popey> it is an ssd
[22:49] <daftykins> guess it's not the end of the world :P
[22:52] <popey> not had an ssd fail yet
[22:54] <daftykins> that's not really what that's getting at
[22:54] <daftykins> hmm that's enough education for tonight
[22:54] <daftykins> now i know how to use 'find' :O
[23:17] <shauno> I'm still not convinced anyone knows how to use find :)
[23:24] <daftykins> i shall use it the best by not desiring to find things, ever
[23:24] <daftykins> we'll see how long that works out for
[23:38] <awilkins_> So apropos only works on locally installed man pages?
[23:39] <awilkins_> What was the thing that recommends packages that you don't have installed?