=== liam_ is now known as Guest89217 === jason_kr_ is now known as jason_kr [10:00] c [10:19] d [10:50] e === doko_ is now known as doko === liam_ is now known as Guest73106 [16:00] * barry waves [16:00] #startmeeting [16:00] Meeting started Thu Nov 20 16:00:51 2014 UTC. The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [16:00] o/ [16:00] hi [16:00] \o [16:01] o/ [16:01] hi [16:01] \o [16:01] #topic Lightening round === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightening round [16:01] Lightning even [16:02] echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson doko slagasek jodh stgraber infinity sil2100 robru mvo caribou) [16:02] caribou slagasek stgraber doko sil2100 cjwatson mvo jodh bdmurray infinity barry robru [16:02] * barry hopes he didn't miss anyone [16:02] Yay, I get to start :) [16:02] You won! [16:02] * Backport of tcpdump from Trusty to Precise into precise-backports [16:02] * sosreport : - Eliminate delta with debian - Sync with debian [16:02] * Completed makedumpfile/kdump-tools test environment [16:02] (done) [16:02] we didn't have a meeting last week so feel free to report on one or two weeks [16:03] barry: skip me, busy at the sprint [16:03] stgraber: ack [16:03] skipping slangasek too [16:03] I think slangasek won't be around as well, so doko? :) [16:03] so... doko [16:05] doko: ? [16:06] going once... going twice... [16:06] ;) [16:06] sil2100: go for it [16:06] o/ [16:06] - Holidays last week, shorter work-week \o/ [16:06] - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails [16:06] - CI Train maintenance: [16:06] * Fixing the multiple bug-number bug in ci-train [16:06] - Improvements to the Issue Tracker: [16:06] * Displaying the status of all projects related to the bug [16:06] * Splitting the blocker bugs to ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm categories [16:06] * More work on including the smoketesting results in the landing-email outputter [16:06] - Bringing the LandingTeam documentation back up-to-date [16:06] - RTM readiness meetings [16:07] - Coordinating top-blocker fixes landings for the 20/21st Nov milestone [16:07] sorry, will go at the end [16:07] - Writing announcement e-mails [16:07] - Half sick day on the 19th of November [16:07] (done, not much of an update though) [16:07] Lots of merges. Merges merges merges. [16:07] Trying to eliminate Ruby 2.0 from vivid. Nine reverse-dependencies left. [16:07] Helped out with some odds and ends of a Click-related project. [16:07] Transition planning: [16:07] - Converted auto-sync to log to web-accessible files rather than to my inbox, so that that process no longer relies on me. [16:07] - Arranged to remove myself from cron mail notifications for everything run by ubuntu-archive@snakefruit. [16:07] Launchpad: [16:07] - Got ppa.launchpad.net reconfigured to serve symlinks from PPAs, so that /dists/devel/ works. [16:07] - Removed irrelevant options from populate-archive (bug 1368096). [16:07] bug 1368096 in Launchpad itself "populate-archive ignores --suite argument" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1368096 [16:07] - Working on allowing sprints to be designated as virtual (bug 1391281). [16:07] bug 1391281 in Launchpad itself "Support UDS (UOS) virtual format for sprint attendance" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391281 [16:07] .. [16:07] did: spend *long* week on internal project (gtimelog list is long and boring for this audience) [16:07] ... [16:08] * upstart [16:08] - Fixed FTBFS issue relating to tests calling packaged rather than [16:08] generated libtool. [16:08] * click: [16:08] - Worked a bit on enriching manifest data and adding tests. [16:08] * system-image [16:08] - Design work. [16:08] - Documentation. [16:08] - Working on expanding scope of upgrader's abilities. [16:08] ゑ [16:08] worked with webops regarding amqp failues (queue down to 0, not accepting core files or retracing anything) (LP: #1394365) [16:08] Launchpad bug 1394365 in Daisy "failure to communicate with core storage can result in draining of retracing queue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394365 [16:08] added lucid, maverick to EoL releases for daisy/submit.py just in case [16:08] implemented OOPS creation in the retracer.py code so OOPSes will go to oops.canonical.com for them [16:09] submitted RTs to have staging and production versions of daisy updated [16:09] investigation into retracing failures [16:09] r581 daisy/retracer.py: do not consider all reports with RetraceOutdatedPackages in them as failures, rather make sure that the retraced report has a Stacktrace before considering it a success. [16:09] wrote a script to find missing ddebs for 15.04 parsing retracer log files [16:09] worked with pjdc to test a scaling stack retracer [16:09] reported whoopsie bug 1390627 and added in details [16:09] uploaded libproxy, libnih, google-glog, gflags, avahi, unity-gtk-module, lcms2, mir, libsecret, mtdev, nettle, libasyncns, accountsservice, network-manager-applet, gnome-bluetooth, heimdal, process-cpp, net-cpp to get ddebs for 15.04 [16:09] bug 1390627 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "tabs being replaced by question marks in report values" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1390627 [16:09] uploaded dkms hook that adds the package version to the package key fixing empty package version information in the Error Tracker [16:09] UE - IS sync up call [16:09] ✔ done [16:09] no infinity i think [16:09] system-image: LP: #1390205; smoketests. internal project. LP: #1373467. testing udm fixes. [16:09] Launchpad bug 1390205 in ubuntu-download-manager "udm falls over on the switch from wifi to 3g meaning ota are stuck and the system can't recover till reboot" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1390205 [16:10] Launchpad bug 1373467 in Ubuntu system image "Support config.d directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373467 [16:10] debuntu: python3-genshi; debian bug #768286 (zope-interface puiparts); debian bug #769449 (ensurepip - ongoing); reviewed debian bug #769106; debian bug #752467; debian bug #770173 [16:10] Debian bug 768286 in python3-zope.interface-dbg,python-zope.interface-dbg "python{, 3}-zope.interface-dbg: unhandled symlink to directory conversion: /usr/share/doc/PACKAGE" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/768286 [16:10] Debian bug 769449 in src:python3.4 "using ensurepip installs wheels in /usr/lib/python-wheels" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/769449 [16:10] Debian bug 769106 in src:python-defaults "python2.7-minimal: fails to upgrade from 'wheezy': python or pycompile not found in public_modules.rtinstall hook." [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/769106 [16:10] Debian bug 752467 in python-virtualenv "python-virtualenv: no command "virtualenv"" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/752467 [16:10] Debian bug 770173 in src:requests "please enable running the tests" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/770173 [16:10] other: python bug 22807 (uuid1 not using uuid_generate_time_safe); pybootchartgui fix; update more machines to vivid (adjusting desktop init & emacs configs); LP: #678421 (lightdm sh syntax error handling); UOS [16:10] bug 15442 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #22807 panels change their position between logins" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15442 [16:10] Launchpad bug 678421 in lightdm (Ubuntu Trusty) "Error message for a faulty ~/.profile script" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678421 [16:10] done. [16:10] one sec [16:11] * CI Train overhaul [16:11] - Wrote all new watch_ppa capable of scanning multiple series per silo [16:11] - worked with Ursinha on a bringup of a new deployment, fixing lots of bitrotted parts of the charm [16:11] - Good cleanup in the testsuite, moved lots of redundantly copy&pasted logic into a single cohesive superclass for all TestCase subclasses [16:11] - Implemented 'DotProject' class to manage .project files, consolidating redundant logic from 8 different places across 5 different files into a single coherent place. [16:11] - Wrote a wrapper for os.path.join() which raises an exception if you accidentally pass in too many absolute paths, protecting us against an entire class of bugs [16:11] - Inlined a number of redundant, single-use functions into one coherent function. [16:11] - Completed enough of the relative->absolute path transition that I was able to drop all calls to os.chdir() from the build job. [16:11] * various landings, landings, landings. [16:11] (done) [16:12] citrain shiny staging on its way [16:12] doko: last chance! [16:12] does anybody have any questions or comments on folks status? [16:13] - gdb merge, SRU and bug triage [16:13] - trying to get GCC 5 built on all architectures ... [16:13] - preparing for python 2.7.9 [16:13] - installed my laptop with the disk encrypted (an odyssee ...) [16:13] - needed a replacement disk for my server at home, raid5 working again [16:13] (done) [16:13] #topic AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [16:13] ohh, and getting a lot annoyed about python-pip ... [16:13] doko: "getting"? :) [16:13] even more ... [16:14] does anybody have anything else today? [16:14] 3... [16:14] 2... [16:14] 1... [16:14] good, let's keep this short and sweet [16:14] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:14] Meeting ended Thu Nov 20 16:14:49 2014 UTC. [16:14] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-11-20-16.00.moin.txt [16:14] thanks barry [16:14] thanks! [16:15] cheers! [16:15] yay [16:17] THanks o/ [17:01] * didrocks waves [17:01] salut didrocks [17:01] Guten tag dholbach :) [17:01] are you here for the desktop team? [17:01] yeah [17:01] willcooke__ is sick [17:01] so I'm the spare will today :) [17:01] hello all [17:02] hey cprofitt [17:02] #startmeeting [17:02] Meeting started Thu Nov 20 17:02:10 2014 UTC. The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [17:02] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [17:02] goooooo team [17:02] Laney: \o/ [17:02] o/ [17:02] #chair cprofitt czajkowski mhall119 YokoZar pleia2 [17:02] Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach mhall119 pleia2 [17:02] #topic Catching up with the Desktop team === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Desktop team [17:02] easily forgotten is elfy :( [17:02] didrocks, Laney: thanks for turning up! how are you doing? how's the desktop? [17:02] #chair elfy [17:02] Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2 [17:03] Welcome [17:03] Aloha :) [17:03] dholbach: we're good! Wrapping up blueprints after UOS [17:03] got quite some nice sessions, especially the Q&A with the community [17:03] what kept you guys busy in the last time? [17:04] dholbach: I wasn't there the last time, so not sure when it was exactly, like a month or so? [17:04] hum? I'm not sure I understand - you mean when the CC met with the Desktop team the last time? [17:05] it could easily have been 5-6 months since we last met(?) - I can't quite remember [17:05] dholbach: right, I was on holidays I guess, so unsure when it was (don't want to go back in time too far) [17:05] ah ok :) [17:05] right :) [17:05] Phone system settings, bugs, 14.10 release, GTK Mir backend, ... [17:05] More recently gnome updates + merges too, normal stuff I think [17:05] Some work on the unity 8 desktop stuff [17:05] yeah, part of the team is working on getting some bits of gnome 3.14 updated [17:06] UDTC ;-) [17:06] (and gtk with their new theme system) [17:06] how is the unity8 desktop coming on? [17:06] of course, desktop developer story as Laney told :) [17:06] will the new gtk mean that we can update to the newest in gnome? [17:06] Laney: I know there's been work to more cleanly separate upstream Gnome from Unity's needs, so that Ubuntu GNOME for example doesn't have conflicts. How has that work been going, is it completed or almost there? [17:06] unity8: it's coming up nicely, if you saw recent posts, there is even some prototypes for multi-windows management with unity8 [17:06] I saw that :) [17:07] we have a blueprint and some WIs for that image: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-1504-desktop-apps-on-mir [17:07] was that from this UOS? [17:07] the goal is to have all those apps running and working in the unity8 image by 15.04 [17:07] we didn't really have a session at UOS as it's a JFDI [17:07] an ambitious goal [17:07] In the past there was a bit of a thorny issue where our derived-from-gnome packages were still using the gnome-* package namespace (and you couldn't easily get a more gnomey-gnome from packages), leading to some upset community folks. Has this migration been basically completely done now? [17:08] but basically we want people to be able to create touch apps and tests from this image [17:08] hence Qtcreator [17:08] mhall119 basically beat me to that question [17:08] and having importants apps [17:08] YokoZar: type smaller bits :) [17:08] so GNOME - Unity separation [17:08] I doubts there will be more work on this until we switch to unity8 by default and dropp unity7 support [17:08] there has been a fair share of decoupling [17:09] to enable the ubuntu gnome team to update more on latest gnome version [17:09] Is Unity8 happening next release? [17:09] We'll be able to get to 3.14 I think [17:09] YokoZar: we all wish, but a more realistic goal is by next LTS [17:09] YokoZar: not default next release, no [17:09] we will propose it as an option first anyway [17:09] and then, when users will be convinced that unity 8 is better than unity 7 [17:09] we will switch [17:10] didrocks: is the plan to keep Unity NEXT as a separate build, or will Unity 8 be an installable session on top of a regular install? [17:10] in 15.04 [17:10] as Laney told, we are going to get Gnome 3.14 this cycle [17:10] which is the current Gnome stable release [17:10] mhall119: it's already available in a session on top of the regular one actually [17:10] current, but usn't 3.16 coming soon? [17:10] the separate build is just for people to try it more easily [17:10] mhall119: soon being next April [17:11] didrocks: We do have 15.10 before 16.04 LTS as well. Is that the time to drop unity7 so we can fully deal with this? I'd hate to leave ubuntu-gnome stranded for another LTS [17:11] didrocks: good to know, thanks [17:11] didrocks: so, same as our next release :) [17:11] Who says they are stranded? [17:11] mhall119: right :) [17:11] Well, alternative is package separation work of course [17:11] It would be extremely bad to fork every gnome package [17:12] No argument there [17:12] do we have many gnome-* packages left that have Unity-specific changes which break GNOME? [17:12] YokoZar: I agree I would not like to see Ubuntu Gnome left is a bad position through another LTS [17:12] they can do it, but it's a fair amount of work [17:12] mhall119: well, there is gtk for example, what prevented update to 3.14 last cycle is that they rewrote the theme engine for example [17:12] so the ubuntu theme is being redone identical with the new css rules as of now [17:13] I'm just worried about a situation where the not-gnome gnome-* packages linger because it was easier to remove them after dropping unity-7 but then we never get around to dropping unity-7 till release after LTS and so the separation work doesn't get done [17:13] so, it's not only "unity", it's "ubuntu" as a whole [17:13] didrocks: so is it more a case of "newest upstream breaks Unity" and now "Unity patches break newest upstream"? [17:13] ok [17:13] mhall119: exactly [17:13] s/now/not/ I infer :) [17:13] yes [17:14] how are things going with the developer desktop? :) [17:14] so that answers my questions and concerns about that, how about you YokoZar? [17:15] we are starting to get a nice community and external contributors [17:15] didrocks: I suspect adapting the Ubuntu theme to work with latest Gnome is work the ubuntu-gnome folks are happy to do, whereas poking around with unity-specific patches maybe less so ;) [17:15] YokoZar: hum, I doubt, they are using the upstream adwaita theme, not the ubuntu one [17:15] YokoZar: so, they are not really concerned about it [17:15] ahh ok [17:16] It's more things like adapting UIs where Unity wants them to be different from the GNOME HIG which is in the way of updating [17:16] yeah, so this cycle, we should have new ides supported for developers [17:16] "ubuntu one" == "humanity" right? [17:16] new environments as well [17:16] Not really so much distro patches [17:16] IMO [17:16] and not protection for people using pip/ruby on their systems :) [17:16] mhall119: well, we don't have headbars in our theme [17:16] and some applications have empty menus with headbars [17:16] I have this fantasy of Ubuntu being in Gnome's good graces again [17:16] mhall119: I'm happy, though we should check in next release. [17:17] so, it's broken in xfce, under unity… [17:17] (I kid ~ "good graces") [17:17] YokoZar: +1 [17:17] bleh [17:17] It's like the fantasy of an "Ubuntu and Debian" relationship [17:17] I would like to see that too YokoZar [17:17] really it's many to many [17:17] Exactly [17:17] +1 Laney [17:17] There is no Emperor of Gnome whose ring we can kiss :p [17:19] lol [17:19] is there anythign the CC can to do assign the desktop team's work, either with Unity 8 or the Ubuntu<->GNOME relation? [17:19] dholbach: so, if you can read in the interleaved discussions, yeah, things are going great on the developer desktop :) [17:19] s/assign/assist/ [17:19] * mhall119 can't type today [17:20] (which is bad, because I'm coding today) [17:20] mhall119: maybe some call for testing/trying the Unity 8 image? [17:20] we know it can't be used on a daily bases [17:20] and it's a tablet ui for now [17:20] but we will be thrilled to have feedback, like on social media for instance [17:20] didrocks: we can help promote that if there's a coordinated plan to help people get started and report problems [17:20] I saw mzanetti posted a video of some windowing support on G+ [17:20] and I think the core apps guys will be delighted to have early feedbacks on their applications running on a desktop :) [17:20] didrocks: not a tablet UI for long, once mzanetti's patch lands [17:20] right! [17:21] very nice [17:21] mhall119: we can build some plan around it and use the community team as a proxy? [17:21] didrocks: community team and CC both can assist with getting the word out [17:21] to spread the world with the loco council :) [17:21] nice [17:22] didrocks: good idea [17:22] * mhall119 apologizes to everyone he just volunteered to do stuff [17:22] I'm the LoCo council will like that [17:22] volounteering other people, that's always the way to go ;) [17:22] it's the Ubuntu way ;) [17:23] speaking of help - where do you feel the Desktop team would need most help right now? [17:24] if we can get some people will to contribute testing and updating the new GNOME in particular on #ubuntu-desktop, that would be awesome [17:24] who* [17:24] want* [17:24] ECANTTYPE tonight as well :) [17:25] didrocks: we just need some specifics about what to test, how to test it, and how to report results [17:25] I'm always personnaly welcoming feedback and patches on UDTC (the developer desktop) [17:25] we will make some call for help and contribution publically on this next week [17:25] a vague "test some things" isn't going to get us very far [17:25] * elfy suggests that balloons would be the one to co-ordinate testing [17:25] mhall119: most of the coordination is done through #ubuntu-desktop [17:25] didrocks: better to gave documentation, if we can get it [17:26] so people jumping on IRC and telling they want to help, we can then redirect to what is needed at that point in time [17:26] you're only on IRC 22.5 hours a day, afterall [17:26] the thing is that between one week to the next one, it's not the same thing to test [17:26] also, we resumed using WI and blueprints [17:26] so, if people wants to help the desktop team, there is http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/canonical-desktop-team.html [17:26] I understand, but docs still work better and get more contributors, so if we can have them that would be great [17:27] here are some WI that are not assigned [17:27] they are free to grab and more specific [17:27] great... I'm done with questions - does anyone else have any more questions? [17:28] * mhall119 has none [17:28] I have no more. [17:28] thanks a lot didrocks and Laney! [17:29] thank you both [17:29] thanks didrocks Laney [17:29] . [17:29] thanks everyone! :) [17:29] #topic Catching up with the DMB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the DMB [17:29] yes, thank you everyone. [17:29] thanks, hi [17:29] welcome again Laney :) [17:29] anyone else from the DMB around? :) [17:30] dunno, to find out you do this: [17:30] !dmb-ping [17:30] bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping [17:30] Laney: hola [17:30] dholbach: hi [17:30] tada! [17:30] hello xnox, nice to see you're still around :) [17:31] wow, I didn't know that command :) [17:31] mhall119: i beg your pardon, how dare you?! =) nah, all is cool. [17:31] :) [17:31] hi [17:32] how are you? how are things with the DMB? [17:33] Same ol' [17:33] Heh [17:33] We have meetings, we approve most people, impossible to get people to reply to email threads [17:33] :P [17:33] ah yes, I remember we talked about the mail situation the last time [17:33] Laney: applicants or DMB members? [17:33] do you feel things have improved there? [17:34] Is our rate of developer growth about the same as it's always been? [17:34] members, no [17:34] or is it also "same ol'"? [17:34] It's pretty slow now [17:34] CI train removed one reason people used to have for applying I think [17:34] but the new system won't be as backdoory so we may see it come back a bit [17:35] ("CI airline") [17:35] I estimate we have someone at 3 out of every 4 meetings [17:36] do you know if people who get their changes auto-landed apply for membership very often? [17:36] I know that they don't do that through us [17:36] at least I can't think of anyone like that [17:37] ok [17:38] DMB has never been a popular route for membership anyway [17:38] how about the voting-by-email situation? does this go better than it used to? [17:38] No [17:38] We have three threads ongoing now, hard to get the board to reply [17:39] :/ [17:39] I think we might have to start refusing to handle any application on email [17:39] maybe somebody should use the "dmb-ping" command on IRC more often :-) [17:39] but our meeting times are crap for people not in the US or Europe [17:39] right, that makes sense [17:39] The two email applicants are in Asia and Australasia [17:39] so. [17:40] Laney: could you review applicants in the meeting online and post them results or do you need the applicants there in person ? [17:40] It's the interview aspect [17:40] but the meeting time slot could be used for that, no? [17:40] or else make a once off special meeting when -meeting is free and everyone comes online early/late and reviews the applicatns ? [17:40] Only if the applicant is there [17:40] not saying it's needed every month but may deal with people not answering emails :) [17:40] but you could use the meeting time for sending the mail [17:41] you'd think [17:41] dholbach: +! [17:41] writing the mail [17:41] that should really be possible [17:41] :) [17:41] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2014-November/thread.html [17:41] Might not be talking to the right person. :) [17:42] I wasn't blaming you in the slightest [17:42] I know, I'm just saying that I don't know what solutions I can offer [17:42] right [17:43] Laney: perhaps try dholbach suggestio of mail during meeting and add it to the agenda and see if that helps? [17:43] Laney: do you usually have enough board members on hand at a meeting ? [17:43] Could try that [17:43] here's 10 minutes of silence, go email [17:43] yes, that'd be nice [17:43] We usually scrape 4 people [17:44] Laney: so do you think you need more members on the board also ? [17:44] Laney: try adn see and let us know :) [17:44] please [17:44] or regional boards like we did for Ubuntu membership? [17:44] not sure that would help the DMB given some areas are higher than others for developers [17:45] true, but there might be enough current members for a asian/oceana board [17:45] I know that it's not easy to make up your mind and that with the MC we had long email debates as well [17:46] but it's nice if everyone tries hard to keep the ball rolling [17:46] Reasonable [17:46] and not keep the applicants waiting unnecesarily [17:46] I know that everyone understands this [17:47] Still somehow it never gets to the top [17:47] thanks a lot for your help, Laney [17:47] thanks Laney, hopefull the "send email during meeting time" will help [17:47] Thank you Laney [17:48] does anyone have any other questions? [17:48] not me [17:48] I want to discuss/inform about you about something in private [17:48] do you have a channel? [17:48] Laney: yes let me dm [17:49]