[01:18] <rick_h_> evening
[02:08] <cmaloney> evening,++
[13:21] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:26] <brousch> Never give up!
[13:27] <brousch> You have like 60 territory to my 30
[14:00] <cmaloney> brousch: You've taken around 30 of my stones. This ceased being fun a while ago. :)
[14:00] <cmaloney> And acc to my calculations you'll win by 18 points
[14:01] <brousch> I think you're too pessimistic, but I accept your surrender
[14:09] <cmaloney> tx
[14:09] <cmaloney> Let's play again. :)
[14:09] <cmaloney> 13x13. I don't think I'm ready for 19x19
[14:09] <cmaloney> brb
[14:44] <brousch_> Could this distro have a less-appealing name? http://www.staples.com/ACER-AMERICA-NOTEBOOKS-TravelMate-Celeron-Linpus-Linux-Notebook/product_IM1VN8679
[14:46] <cmaloney> http://www.linpus.com/
[14:46] <cmaloney> s/distro/company/
[14:47] <cmaloney> Looks like another company trying to make a chromebook OS
[14:48] <cmaloney> And of course online only
[14:48] <cmaloney> (on Staples, so I can't go over to the store to play with one)
[14:49] <brousch_> heh
[14:52] <brousch_> cmaloney: I invited you to a 13x13
[14:52] <cmaloney> brousch_: Awesome. Will accept in a bit.
[14:52] <jrwren> very interesting. they are an ex-meego vendor
[14:52] <jrwren> http://www.linpus.com/aboutus.html
[14:52] <cmaloney> Not seeing the invite
[14:53] <cmaloney> "Linpus is the only Linux vendor with research and development facilities in both Taipei and Shanghai, strategically positioned next to the main hardware manufacturers. "
[14:53] <brousch_> hm, it's not in my sent either
[14:53] <jrwren> its too bad that thing is $349 instead of $199. we know it alreayd runs linux, could wipe it and maybe use distro of choice :)
[14:53] <cmaloney> jrwren: You read my mind
[14:53] <cmaloney> That was the nice thing about the Asus Eee
[14:54] <cmaloney> Until the distros expanded larger than 4GB
[14:54] <jrwren> i just bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MNOPS1C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[14:54] <jrwren> I haven't tried linux on it, yet. someone told me it doesn't work well.
[14:54] <jrwren> broadcom wifi fail and stuff. We shall see.
[14:54] <cmaloney> 2GB isn't going to be happy either
[14:55] <brousch_> Ah, found the problem. I had rated game checked but you have no rating
[14:56] <brousch_> jrwren: El cheapo!
[14:56] <jrwren> brousch_: yup.
[14:56] <jrwren> 2GB ram? that is plenty for my use cases.
[14:56] <brousch_> Speed and RAM are similar to the Win8 tablets I tried. normal things ran fine, but dev became painful
[14:57] <jrwren> i wouldn't dev on it.
[14:57] <cmaloney> brousch_: Yeah, I should just bite the bullet and rate myself 29yu
[14:57] <cmaloney> kyu
[14:57] <jrwren> at least not more than basic python and go.
[14:57] <brousch_> Python with vim would be OK
[14:58] <brousch_> Although with a small Linux DE like LXDE you might be able to run a real IDE
[14:58] <jrwren> i haven't used a real IDE in 3+yrs.
[14:58] <jrwren> wait... does XCode count. ok 2.5 yrs. 3yrs ago I was using XCode.
[14:59]  * brousch_ casts his lure and turns on the electric motor
[16:40]  * DrDaemonEye wanders down memory lane to when he actually used an IDE to work on a project.
[16:40] <DrDaemonEye> 4 or 5 years?
[18:26] <cmaloney> ago?
[18:27] <jrwren> now.
[18:29] <cmaloney> I haven't used a real IDE since I tried bashing Eclipse to do what the Radional Rose folks at Chrysler were doing automatically to build J2EE application
[18:29] <cmaloney> s
[18:29] <cmaloney> And I haven't missed it one iota.
[18:30] <cmaloney> vim is my IDE
[18:30] <cmaloney> all hail the vim
[18:30]  * rick_h_ hails
[18:31] <cmaloney> (controversial statement: IDEs are generally useful when folks don't know how to make proper makefiles for their buld process. ;) )
[18:31] <cmaloney> (and when you need 500 lines of template code to write "hello world")
[18:32] <rick_h_> well that's because IDEs are 12 tools in one
[18:32] <rick_h_> build tool, code reading tool, task tracking tool, workspace management tool, file template generation tool
[18:34] <brousch_> mmmm, all in one
[18:34] <rick_h_> 'OMG! they moved the button. I don't know how to build my software without the button! Crap!'
[18:35] <cmaloney> rick_h_: ++
[18:35] <rick_h_> or better yet, "there's a problem on production, let's install the IDE On there and rerun the build" :P
[18:35] <cmaloney> Gah
[18:35] <jrwren> someone told me vim is an idea, becuse they prefer nano. I eyerolled.
[18:35] <cmaloney> idea or ide
[18:35] <jrwren> just because an editor has nice features doesn't make it an IDE
[18:35] <jrwren> sorry, bad typo.  IDE.
[18:35] <cmaloney> vim can be made into an IDE
[18:35] <jrwren> how?
[18:35] <jrwren> what makes it an IDE?
[18:35] <rick_h_> right, it's about the integration of all the various tasks a developer must do
[18:36] <jrwren> GDB isn't INTEGRATED into VIM. its a vim plugin talking to GDB
[18:36] <cmaloney> jrwren: jedi, fugitive, rick's .vimrc
[18:36] <jrwren> that isn't an IDE.
[18:36] <jrwren> nothing is "INTEGRATED"
[18:36] <rick_h_> lol my vimrc is far from any big ide
[18:36] <brousch_> What's the equivalent of a makefile on Windows?
[18:36] <jrwren> brousch_: a Makefile.
[18:36] <cmaloney> Right, IDE is too limited a term. More like a missile silo dashboard. :)
[18:36] <rick_h_> brousch_: vagrant :P
[18:36] <jrwren> brousch_: windows dev tools ship with NMAKE.EXE
[18:37] <brousch_> Hm, so I can use make on windows if I install visual Studio?
[18:37] <cmaloney> You can use something they call make with VS
[18:37] <jrwren> brousch_: you can use nmake, which is NOT bsd or gnu make compatible.
[18:37] <rick_h_> wheeee!
[18:37] <jrwren> cmaloney: hi 5 !
[18:37] <jrwren> brousch_: this is why autotools and cmake exist. :)
[18:37] <jrwren> autotools does target nmake too, right?
[18:38] <cmaloney> And why it's a pain in the butt to get anything with UNIX roots working under Windows
[18:38] <cmaloney> jrwren: likely, but haven't looked
[18:38] <cmaloney> I'd be surprised if it didn't.
[18:38] <jrwren> why indeed.
[18:38] <jrwren> its because MSFT love to artificially put up boundaries.
[18:39] <cmaloney> Well, it's philosophies
[18:39] <jrwren> don't force your philosophies on me. that is like your opinion, man.
[18:39] <cmaloney> UNIX has a philosophy, and Microsoft likes to dress up in pretty berets and soupt nonsense. :)
[18:39] <cmaloney> spout rather
[18:39] <jrwren> cmaloney: so true.
[18:40] <jrwren> i honestly beleive the IT industry as a whole is 10-15 yrs behind where it could be if MSFT would have just shipped POSIX userspace OOTB on all windows versions.
[18:40] <jrwren> they had the api, they had the tools, they just wouldn't ship it!
[18:40] <jrwren> bastards!
[18:40]  * jrwren grumble grumble
[18:40] <cmaloney> Yeah, but POSIX took a while for anyone to take seriously
[18:40] <cmaloney> It had the "Standards body" sheen that nobody cares for
[18:40] <jrwren> it was plenty serious by 2000 when windows 2000 shipped.
[18:41] <cmaloney> like CORBA, or ANSI
[18:41] <jrwren> ugh.
[18:41] <cmaloney> iirc wasn't Windows one of the first major OSes that shipped POSIX complete / compliant / whatever it was?
[18:41] <jrwren> know why easy_install and setup tools exist? because no make on windows.
[18:41] <jrwren> know why rake exists? because no make on windows.
[18:42] <jrwren> know why npm exists? because no make on windows.
[18:42] <jrwren> :p
[18:42] <cmaloney> heh
[18:42] <jrwren> know why grunt exists? because no make on windows
[18:42] <cmaloney> I also blame Windows for not shipping a C compiler
[18:42] <cmaloney> though that was also the norm for decades for regular UNIX as well
[18:42] <jrwren> at least they fixed that.
[18:43] <jrwren> they did finally make a free compiler always available for download.
[18:43] <cmaloney> knr C compiler that doesn't compile anything but kernel modules.
[18:43] <jrwren> i don't blame 'em for not including it OOTB
[18:43] <jrwren> cmaloney: really? which unix did that?  most I know didn't. they included a linker and kernel binaries and only linked.
[18:43] <cmaloney> HPUX
[18:43] <jrwren> ah.
[18:43] <cmaloney> iirc
[18:44] <cmaloney> Ultrix also had some weird shit in there as well
[18:44] <jrwren> yeah, it was weird. OSF, ultrix, digital unix, tru64 only ever shipped on dec alpha, so they shipped kernel binaries and you would rebuild your kernel only by relinking. no source needed.
[18:45] <jrwren> or did ultrix target mips too?
[18:45] <cmaloney> Not sure
[18:45] <cmaloney> I think it was MIPS only
[18:45] <cmaloney> not sure if it ever was on dec Alpha
[18:45] <jrwren> oh?
[18:45] <cmaloney> at least I never saw Ultrix on a DEC alpha
[18:45] <jrwren> pretty sure we had ultrix on alpha, but I may remember wrong.
[18:45] <cmaloney> but we only had one alpha machine
[18:45] <cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrix
[18:46] <cmaloney> Heh, it was on VAX
[18:46] <cmaloney> and PDP-11
[18:46] <jrwren> ah, replaced with osf/1 for alpha.
[18:46] <jrwren> cool.
[18:46] <cmaloney> OSF/1 was nice
[18:46] <cmaloney> I really liked it
[18:46] <cmaloney> Could also be that I had root on the machine
[18:46] <jrwren> yup.
[18:46] <jrwren> lol.
[19:34] <rick_h_> finally! a keyboard I actually have no interest in! http://atreus.technomancy.us/
[19:45] <cmaloney> http://metal-and-wine.com/en/
[19:47] <cmaloney> The German side also has Accept and Yello