[01:18] evening [02:08] evening,++ [13:21] Good morning [13:26] Never give up! [13:27] You have like 60 territory to my 30 [14:00] brousch: You've taken around 30 of my stones. This ceased being fun a while ago. :) [14:00] And acc to my calculations you'll win by 18 points [14:01] I think you're too pessimistic, but I accept your surrender [14:09] tx [14:09] Let's play again. :) [14:09] 13x13. I don't think I'm ready for 19x19 [14:09] brb [14:44] Could this distro have a less-appealing name? http://www.staples.com/ACER-AMERICA-NOTEBOOKS-TravelMate-Celeron-Linpus-Linux-Notebook/product_IM1VN8679 [14:46] http://www.linpus.com/ [14:46] s/distro/company/ [14:47] Looks like another company trying to make a chromebook OS [14:48] And of course online only [14:48] (on Staples, so I can't go over to the store to play with one) [14:49] heh [14:52] cmaloney: I invited you to a 13x13 [14:52] brousch_: Awesome. Will accept in a bit. [14:52] very interesting. they are an ex-meego vendor [14:52] http://www.linpus.com/aboutus.html [14:52] Not seeing the invite [14:53] "Linpus is the only Linux vendor with research and development facilities in both Taipei and Shanghai, strategically positioned next to the main hardware manufacturers. " [14:53] hm, it's not in my sent either [14:53] its too bad that thing is $349 instead of $199. we know it alreayd runs linux, could wipe it and maybe use distro of choice :) [14:53] jrwren: You read my mind [14:53] That was the nice thing about the Asus Eee [14:54] Until the distros expanded larger than 4GB [14:54] i just bought http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MNOPS1C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 [14:54] I haven't tried linux on it, yet. someone told me it doesn't work well. [14:54] broadcom wifi fail and stuff. We shall see. [14:54] 2GB isn't going to be happy either [14:55] Ah, found the problem. I had rated game checked but you have no rating [14:56] jrwren: El cheapo! [14:56] brousch_: yup. [14:56] 2GB ram? that is plenty for my use cases. [14:56] Speed and RAM are similar to the Win8 tablets I tried. normal things ran fine, but dev became painful [14:57] i wouldn't dev on it. [14:57] brousch_: Yeah, I should just bite the bullet and rate myself 29yu [14:57] kyu [14:57] at least not more than basic python and go. [14:57] Python with vim would be OK [14:58] Although with a small Linux DE like LXDE you might be able to run a real IDE [14:58] i haven't used a real IDE in 3+yrs. [14:58] wait... does XCode count. ok 2.5 yrs. 3yrs ago I was using XCode. [14:59] * brousch_ casts his lure and turns on the electric motor [16:40] * DrDaemonEye wanders down memory lane to when he actually used an IDE to work on a project. [16:40] 4 or 5 years? [18:26] ago? [18:27] now. [18:29] I haven't used a real IDE since I tried bashing Eclipse to do what the Radional Rose folks at Chrysler were doing automatically to build J2EE application [18:29] s [18:29] And I haven't missed it one iota. [18:30] vim is my IDE [18:30] all hail the vim [18:30] * rick_h_ hails [18:31] (controversial statement: IDEs are generally useful when folks don't know how to make proper makefiles for their buld process. ;) ) [18:31] (and when you need 500 lines of template code to write "hello world") [18:32] well that's because IDEs are 12 tools in one [18:32] build tool, code reading tool, task tracking tool, workspace management tool, file template generation tool [18:34] mmmm, all in one [18:34] 'OMG! they moved the button. I don't know how to build my software without the button! Crap!' [18:35] rick_h_: ++ [18:35] or better yet, "there's a problem on production, let's install the IDE On there and rerun the build" :P [18:35] Gah [18:35] someone told me vim is an idea, becuse they prefer nano. I eyerolled. [18:35] idea or ide [18:35] just because an editor has nice features doesn't make it an IDE [18:35] sorry, bad typo. IDE. [18:35] vim can be made into an IDE [18:35] how? [18:35] what makes it an IDE? [18:35] right, it's about the integration of all the various tasks a developer must do [18:36] GDB isn't INTEGRATED into VIM. its a vim plugin talking to GDB [18:36] jrwren: jedi, fugitive, rick's .vimrc [18:36] that isn't an IDE. [18:36] nothing is "INTEGRATED" [18:36] lol my vimrc is far from any big ide [18:36] What's the equivalent of a makefile on Windows? [18:36] brousch_: a Makefile. [18:36] Right, IDE is too limited a term. More like a missile silo dashboard. :) [18:36] brousch_: vagrant :P [18:36] brousch_: windows dev tools ship with NMAKE.EXE [18:37] Hm, so I can use make on windows if I install visual Studio? [18:37] You can use something they call make with VS [18:37] brousch_: you can use nmake, which is NOT bsd or gnu make compatible. [18:37] wheeee! [18:37] cmaloney: hi 5 ! [18:37] brousch_: this is why autotools and cmake exist. :) [18:37] autotools does target nmake too, right? [18:38] And why it's a pain in the butt to get anything with UNIX roots working under Windows [18:38] jrwren: likely, but haven't looked [18:38] I'd be surprised if it didn't. [18:38] why indeed. [18:38] its because MSFT love to artificially put up boundaries. [18:39] Well, it's philosophies [18:39] don't force your philosophies on me. that is like your opinion, man. [18:39] UNIX has a philosophy, and Microsoft likes to dress up in pretty berets and soupt nonsense. :) [18:39] spout rather [18:39] cmaloney: so true. [18:40] i honestly beleive the IT industry as a whole is 10-15 yrs behind where it could be if MSFT would have just shipped POSIX userspace OOTB on all windows versions. [18:40] they had the api, they had the tools, they just wouldn't ship it! [18:40] bastards! [18:40] * jrwren grumble grumble [18:40] Yeah, but POSIX took a while for anyone to take seriously [18:40] It had the "Standards body" sheen that nobody cares for [18:40] it was plenty serious by 2000 when windows 2000 shipped. [18:41] like CORBA, or ANSI [18:41] ugh. [18:41] iirc wasn't Windows one of the first major OSes that shipped POSIX complete / compliant / whatever it was? [18:41] know why easy_install and setup tools exist? because no make on windows. [18:41] know why rake exists? because no make on windows. [18:42] know why npm exists? because no make on windows. [18:42] :p [18:42] heh [18:42] know why grunt exists? because no make on windows [18:42] I also blame Windows for not shipping a C compiler [18:42] though that was also the norm for decades for regular UNIX as well [18:42] at least they fixed that. [18:43] they did finally make a free compiler always available for download. [18:43] knr C compiler that doesn't compile anything but kernel modules. [18:43] i don't blame 'em for not including it OOTB [18:43] cmaloney: really? which unix did that? most I know didn't. they included a linker and kernel binaries and only linked. [18:43] HPUX [18:43] ah. [18:43] iirc [18:44] Ultrix also had some weird shit in there as well [18:44] yeah, it was weird. OSF, ultrix, digital unix, tru64 only ever shipped on dec alpha, so they shipped kernel binaries and you would rebuild your kernel only by relinking. no source needed. [18:45] or did ultrix target mips too? [18:45] Not sure [18:45] I think it was MIPS only [18:45] not sure if it ever was on dec Alpha [18:45] oh? [18:45] at least I never saw Ultrix on a DEC alpha [18:45] pretty sure we had ultrix on alpha, but I may remember wrong. [18:45] but we only had one alpha machine [18:45] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrix [18:46] Heh, it was on VAX [18:46] and PDP-11 [18:46] ah, replaced with osf/1 for alpha. [18:46] cool. [18:46] OSF/1 was nice [18:46] I really liked it [18:46] Could also be that I had root on the machine [18:46] yup. [18:46] lol. [19:34] finally! a keyboard I actually have no interest in! http://atreus.technomancy.us/ [19:45] http://metal-and-wine.com/en/ [19:47] The German side also has Accept and Yello