ochosi(late) morning everyone10:18
bluesabrequick hello to everyone!11:01
bluesabredkessel: is this a good direction for the naming conventions?  if yes, I'll do a release tonight with the fixes http://paste.ubuntu.com/9212668/11:02
bluesabrehave a good day everyone!11:02
knomehello bluesabre 11:02
knomenaming convention looks good to me11:03
bluesabredid you know there is actually a GtkSearchEntry widget? :O11:08
bluesabrewho knew? :D11:09
bluesabreanyhoo, first day of new job! bbl11:09
knomeheh, congrats11:12
knomelearning a lot or just very lost? ;)11:13
ochosibluesabre: nice, congrats and have fun!11:15
dkesselbluesabre: looks gold!11:32
elfycan't update the locate database with catfish in livesession anymore 13:24
elfywant's a password :)13:24
elfybluesabre: awesome :D bug 139572013:32
ubottubug 1395720 in catfish (Ubuntu) "authentication in livesession accepts any value as password" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139572013:32
ochosielfy: if you log out from the live-session or lock the session, can you login with any password too?13:33
elfyochosi: what's the username? thought it was Xubuntu13:34
ochosinot sure, maybe ubuntu13:34
elfycan't log back in 13:35
elfyxubuntu - no password13:37
elfyusing a password fails 13:38
elfypkexec thunar launches fine without password in live13:38
elfythere was a recentish update to catfish - I know that it worked last time I looked in a livesession13:41
ochosihmm, i thought catfish was also using pkexec now13:47
ochosianyway, bluesabre will know13:47
elfynot sure we'd want people to run catfish as root personally 13:48
elfythere's not a catfish policy 13:50
elfyanyway - I'll read what bluesabre says tomorrow morning when piskie's been nosy overnight13:50
sidiochosi, unsure how these thingies are coded. am busier than expected because i have a visitor this week but ill make screenshots soon for the apps I have here :-)14:45
sidigreybird themed ofc14:45
ochosisidi: errm, you lost me there, which thingies and which screenshots?15:04
sidioh sorry15:06
sidilong irc backlog15:06
sidithe doc website15:06
sidihow the templates are implemented15:06
sidithingies, a very specific word indeed.15:06
elfyI use it often - also it's sister term - thingummy 15:07
sidii like that15:07
elfysidi: and for people silly enough to ask me "What's that?" It's always a whimwham for grinding smoke15:08
ochosisidi: well i can only tell you what i would expect...15:16
ochosihave a header part coded into every docs page by default with a fallback image15:16
ochosiand if there's an image with the name "header-image.jpg" or something in that namespace, it'll use that instead of the default15:16
ochosiso that it doesn't clutter the simple wiki style of the pages15:17
ochosisidi: i guess knome knows best how these "thingies" work ;)15:18
ochosiknome: sidi wants a fancy header for the xfce online docs (dokuwiki)15:20
ochosiand now he's sneaking out of the work by saying he has visitory15:21
knomeit's time since i've poked dokuwiki, but... get me server access and i'll fix it :P15:21
knomehah, bad excuses15:21
habhattihello 15:21
knomethe excuse last night was "my gf is here"15:21
knomehello habhatti 15:21
ochosiknome: btw, i've to run off in 30mins and won't be back in time for the meeting – sorry :(15:21
knomehuhu: P15:22
sidiknome, ochosi yeah my gf is here15:22
sidii expected her to come later so no late night hacking this week :P15:22
knomeguess it'll just be a quick meeting then15:22
slickymasterWorkgirlfriend situation is untouchable 15:22
habhattiBy the way, have any of you encountered chromium giving constant errors on resuming 14.04?15:22
ochosiknome: if there's anything you want me to comment on beforehands, i can do that now15:23
knomenot really i think15:23
knomebut fwiw, i've been working on the responsive design for xubuntu.org today15:23
knomeit's almost ready in terms of the "big lines"15:23
sidiknome, oh is the Xfce doc site fixed or responsive?15:24
sidiwhat should be the min-max ranges for the headers?15:24
knomei've no idea.15:25
habhattiresponsive nice15:25
ochosiknome: cool!15:25
habhattixubuntu.org's wordpress isn't it?15:25
* habhatti nods.15:26
=== hobgoblin is now known as elfy
slickymasterWorkelfy, step 12 of the last section of http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases/1557/results 15:35
slickymasterWorkcan you please confirm it since I'm not getting that15:35
slickymasterWorkand before I raise a bug15:35
slickymasterWorkdamn thing15:44
knomenow now15:44
slickymasterWorkelfy, not sure if you saw my ping :P15:45
slickymasterWorkonce again I got TTL15:45
elfyslickymasterWork: save as?15:55
slickymasterWorkyes, that step15:56
elfyyea it saves15:56
slickymasterWorkI'm not getting it. Mousepad simply saves the file and closes15:57
elfybut I'm using staging mousepad15:57
slickymasterWorkthis is in a fully updated vivid image (2014-11-24)15:58
elfyI'll boot live and check there15:58
elfyslickymasterWork: yea mines updated - but I have staging ppa15:58
slickymasterWorkjust ti be sure and not raising a bug for closing afterwards 15:58
elfyyep - understood 15:58
* slickymasterWork will wait for elfy's move16:00
elfyslickymasterWork: works in livesession - local to you perhaps, remove the mousepad confs and try again maybe 16:01
slickymasterWorknopes elfy, it's not related to ~/.config/Mousepad16:16
slickymasterWorkremoved it, rebooted, and still not getting a 'Save as' dialog in step 1216:17
elfy*shrug* not reproducible here or in live session16:17
slickymasterWorkmousepad simply does a  plain old save and closes16:17
elfyoic 16:17
slickymasterWorkwhat do you think of raising the bug anyway and see if there's any feedback16:18
elfynot really taking a lot of notice - yea - saves16:18
slickymasterWorkat least jjfrv8 will potentially see it ^^^ 16:18
jjfrv8I did :)16:18
slickymasterWorklol, hi jack16:19
slickymasterWorkand double check it16:19
slickymasterWorkare you getting the 'sava as' dialog jjfrv8?16:19
slickymasterWorksae also16:19
* slickymasterWork sigh16:19
jjfrv8nope, I'm seeing what you're seeing... I think16:19
elfytestcase wording is wrong16:19
elfyit should save and close 16:20
slickymasterWorkok, I'll file the bug and do a MP for you elfy, tonight16:20
elfyshouldn't mention save as 16:20
slickymasterWorkagree QA lead? 16:21
slickymasterWorkelfy ^16:21
elfyyep 16:21
jjfrv8slickymasterWork, did you happen to see the backlog from the weekend? ochosi asked about my working on the powerman docs.16:22
jjfrv8any objections?16:22
slickymasterWorkof course not jjfrv8, you're more than welcome16:23
slickymasterWorkI've been postponing those, because I've haven't manage to find the time to them16:23
slickymasterWorkbut we can split the load, like we did before16:24
jjfrv8ok, I thought I would rewrite the testcase (1582) first to familiarize myself with the new version, then look at the docs.16:24
slickymasterWorkyes, that's a good idea16:24
slickymasterWorkI've already done the Getting started section (http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfpm-docs:getting-started)16:25
slickymasterWorkok elfy, bug 1395787. I'll have a MP for you after dinner16:34
ubottubug 1395787 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Mousepad testcase ID 1557 needs to be corrected" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139578716:34
elfyslickymasterWork: k - no rush :)16:34
slickymasterWorkall righty boss16:35
knomeelfy, say that and he'll never file the MP ;)16:35
sidiknome, "dont rush to dinner, MP first"16:36
knomethat's more liek it16:36
slickymasterWorkbah you guys16:37
slickymasterWorkyou're nasty :P16:37
knomeslickymasterWork, just kidding, now go eat your dinner :P16:37
elfysounds a bit Afrikaans to me 16:37
knomeelfy, sounds a lot like gobbledigook to me16:37
sidigobbledigook, that sounds nordic16:38
sidiare you nordic, knome?16:38
* sidi talks nonsense, all is fine.16:38
knomesidi, yeah, finland is usually considered a nordic country :P16:38
slickymasterWorkelfy, another one: bug 139579617:01
ubottubug 1395796 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Mugshot testcase ID 1627 needs to be corrected" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139579617:01
elfyslickymasterWork: ok - do them in the same mp :)17:07
elfyor not 17:07
slickymasterWorkI'll do it in the same, no need for a separated one for each 17:08
pleia2preorder discount17:10
knomebah, expensive shipping17:11
pleia2oof, shipping is... yeah17:11
slickymasterWorkyeah :(17:12
knomewould be 21 euros to finland with shipping17:12
knomethat's more than three times what the t-shirt i'mm wearing now was :P17:13
knomei guess i don't really want a t-shirt!17:13
pleia2well, most of my t-shirts are free ;) Ubuntu ones from Canonical aren't cheaper either17:13
pleia2and custom ones from zazzle aren't cheap17:13
knomewell, i don't usually use t-shirt with prints17:13
knomeblank, one-color t-shirts FTW17:14
pleia2this place has nice t-shirts and ship internationally, cost is high :\17:14
habhattiheh, shipping would be insane to Pakistan. :)17:14
knomenot sure what can be done about that if the italian post office asks for silly prices17:14
pleia2habhatti: how much?17:14
pleia2$12 to the US17:15
knome8/12 to finland17:15
pleia2I think I'll order some random stickers along with this17:15
habhattipleia2: it's normally 60 from usa to here, courier17:15
knome14/17 to australia17:16
pleia2habhatti: this is shipping from italy, I'm curious now :)17:16
knome12/17 to pakistan17:16
habhattithat's not too bad17:16
habhattithere's a university here I'm trying to switch to xubuntu - hmm, our students will like those17:17
pleia2habhatti: we're kicking off an initiative this cycle to reward some Xubuntu testers with stickers :D17:17
elfyor trying to 17:18
knomewell i could do with some stickers :P17:18
knomeso maybe i should make the incentive program happen, then test every day17:18
pleia2how many did we want total?17:18
pleia220 sets of stickers?17:18
habhattipleia2: That sounds nice.17:18
elfypleia2: max 2 sets per month/ and we're done with month 1 of the cycle already17:19
knome12 per cycle17:19
elfyso 10 at most for vv, 12 per cycle 17:19
knome20 would do for two cycles17:20
pleia2well, I need to send some to team members too17:20
pleia2like knome and elfy 17:20
* knome bows17:20
pleia2so 20 will do, requested17:20
pleia2and now, work!17:20
knome(meeting in 40 mins!)17:21
knomelooks like a short one17:21
pleia2I have some things to talk about17:22
habhattithank you so much for your hard work, you're putting a lot of life into old machines here17:22
pleia2habhatti: that's always wonderful to hear!17:23
knomepleia2, uh oh ;)17:26
knome!team | Meeting time!17:59
ubottuMeeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit19317:59
knome#startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting17:59
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Nov 24 17:59:56 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:59
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick17:59
knome#chair pleia2 17:59
meetingologyCurrent chairs: knome pleia217:59
knomei'll get a mouse and then we can start17:59
pleia2mice are important for Xubuntu meetings18:00
* pleia2 has a vervet18:00
knome#topic Open action items18:00
knomebluesabre did improbe widget naming18:01
knomeknome has completed the QA processes change but needs to send it out to the list18:01
knome#action knome to send a proposal for the QA process to the -devel ML18:01
meetingologyACTION: knome to send a proposal for the QA process to the -devel ML18:01
knomeexploratory testing mail is sent18:01
elfydid I see the last draft?18:01
knomeand i've scheduled this meeting18:01
knomeelfy, yes, you've seen the one that's last18:02
elfyk - thanks :)18:02
knomei haven't integrated the last bit yet, but i got an ACK from ochosi so it's merely a small merge18:02
knomeso that's it for the action items18:02
knome#topic Team updates18:02
knome#info knome worked on responsive design for the website18:03
pleia2#info pleia2 has been in contact with Unixstickers, they have a Xubuntu t-shirt now! http://www.unixstickers.com/tshirts/linux-and-tux-t-shirts/the-ultimate-xubuntu-linux-tshirt18:03
* skellat just had the electricity go out & is on emergency power for broadband uplink18:03
* skellat departs to start recovery18:03
knomepleia2, if you are ordering one, let's see how it feels like and if it's ok, then add that to the website18:03
pleia2#info Marketing blueprint for Vivid is finally filled out, discussion later this meeting https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-marketing18:04
knome#action knome and pleia2 to update to update the website once the t-shirt quality is checked18:04
meetingologyACTION: knome and pleia2 to update to update the website once the t-shirt quality is checked18:04
knometo update to update?18:04
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: ACTION18:04
pleia2knome: will do, trying to get them to toss one in with the QA sticker order (I'll pay for it if needed, but same shipment would be good)18:04
knome#action knome and pleia2 to update the website once the t-shirt quality is checked18:04
meetingologyACTION: knome and pleia2 to update the website once the t-shirt quality is checked18:04
knomepleia2, sure. i think it would be fair to use the community funds to cover that18:05
knome(the shipping, that is)18:05
knomelet's see how it goes and if you need to pay something, run it through ochosi/team18:05
knomeany other team updates?18:05
elfy#info QA checking and updating tests as they come up18:05
elfy#info QA not much commenting done on the exploratory testing idea - will mail -dev list with more details18:06
knomeelfy, did we set up a testcase for those reports yet?18:07
elfya seperate one? 18:07
knomeyes, since exploratory testing doesn't really fit in the "do X, Y, Z" mindset18:07
knomeor did we decide not to file one18:07
knomeerr, to set up one :P18:07
elfyI don't see much point tbh 18:07
knomei'm fine with that18:07
elfythere ARE places for people to report 18:08
knomeany other updates or shall we move on?18:08
elfyI'm done18:08
knomelet's move on then18:08
knome#topic Announcements18:08
knomenot really an announcement, but similar in nature... there has been some activity going on to awake the xfce team18:09
knomeif you are willing to help there (as well), see https://wiki.xfce.org/people18:09
pleia2oh yes, I should social media their links now that it's a weekday18:09
pleia2re: surveys18:09
knomebasically, we've signed up the xubuntu team in QA; not meaning we'll do all xfce QA18:10
elfynice to be consulted18:10
knomebut to tell the team that we are available if they need help18:10
knomesince we have a pretty large userbase18:10
knomeso, until they ask for anything, we don't need to do anything :)18:11
knome(unless we want to)18:11
knomeelfy, and of course that'll go through the xubuntu procedure, and we'll only do testing when it makes any sense to us18:11
knomeso no worries! :)18:11
elfywell given that - I've got something to say I think18:12
knomesure, go ahead18:12
elfyI'm done, I'm losing interest rapidly18:12
elfyI'll carry on for this cycle - but I'll not be doing it again18:12
pleia2is it just lack of testers?18:13
elfywhen it comes to milestones I'll not be spending hours of my time to make sure everything gets tested18:13
knomeelfy, sad to hear that - and if there is anything we can do to help you get motivated, let us know18:13
elfyso if there's not enough done I will say that we need to not release said milestones18:13
knometo me, that sounds fair, and maybe we should have done that already when any single person did most of the tests18:14
elfywell - announcing in here that *we're* going to be helping xfce with testing without bothering to mention it to me just brought my thinking further forward than it was 18:14
elfyhardly a motivating thing to hear18:14
* knome shrugs18:15
knomeas i mentioned, it's just to let them know that we're available if they need, and we can cooperate with them at that point18:15
elfyeven so18:15
elfyanyway - I said what I needed to - so we can move on18:15
knomeany other announcements?18:16
sidican i have a word as a xfce person?18:17
pleia2sidi: please18:17
sidifor me the goal of this move is not to even ask the distros to do free QA18:17
sidibut you guys especially at Xubuntu, already do testing18:17
sidiand i think its clear that @xfce there is no longer any CI or testing running18:17
sidiyet, we have many downstreams and cant keep up with you guys' own progress18:18
sidixub is one of the main18:18
sidialong with debian and arch, which afaik do no testing18:18
sidiso when you guys successfully tested some software, it's good to let us know18:18
sidiwhen you didnt, we already believe you will file reports18:18
sidibut its useful for us to know when the software was last tested18:18
sidiand what is never tested, especially18:19
knomeas i see it, it's like a part of our regular testing routine18:19
knomewe use some 4.11 components already, so that's the organic testing we are running for xfce18:20
sidithe only question that is really useful to the xfce devs, and especially to people like me who commit to triage some reports, is "when was this feature last working?"18:21
sidiright now i need to test every bug report myself but i sometimes dont have the right setup18:21
sidiif you guys for instance know that libxfce4ui features worked as expected in 10.foo.bar, and then i realise on my git arch that they dont, i can more easily trace the regression18:22
sidiso there ought to be a xfce.org place where downstreams can tell us what last worked.18:22
sidiit's up to you whether it's achievable or not given your workload, no pressure of course18:22
sidijust wanting to avoid duplication18:22
knomei totally agree with that18:23
* pleia2 nods18:23
elfyit's certainly a laudable aim18:23
habhattimakes sense18:23
pleia2sidi: I think having you here will help a lot, can be easy for communication to break down as we're doing tests on our end and forget to tell Xfce18:23
knomeand since we file bug reports and link them to upstream too, it isn't really far off from this point18:23
knomewell, so far, telling xfce has been kind of hard, because people working on it have been scarce18:24
knomemaybe this new project to get things going on will help with that18:24
sidipleia2, it really needs to flow down to up rather than the other way around. i'm a former xub so i know where to find you lot, but it's hard for me to keep up with all the downstreams, there even are some that i'm not aware off. you guys and girls are doing an amazing work keeping up with bug reporting and pre-triaging your users' bugs18:24
sidiit'd be good to also share testing outcomes, and if you feel we cant deal with your info properly then you can suggest better ways18:25
sidiSharing test results might require that we adopt your testing framework18:25
sidito me it makes sense distros test different features/user tasks18:26
knomei think the biggest thing that we need from xfce is that bug reports are actually processed, eg. fixed ;)18:26
sidii believe xfce should host a web UI for testers to report trivially18:26
sidielfy, how do you keep track of testing results at the moment?18:26
elfyfrankly it's hard enough to get people to report what they do18:26
elfy~10 users last cycle reported test results18:27
knomesidi, iso.qa.ubuntu.com and packages.qa.ubuntu.com18:27
elfysidi: currently http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases18:27
siditesting is a PITA indeed.18:27
knomewe've even been improving the testing trackers so that the information is more easy to get out18:27
sidithats cool18:28
sidido you know if there is a public web API that would allow us to pull this?18:28
sidiso its all the same to you but we can unify this with other downstreams who start testing?18:28
knomesidi, there is some API, you should talk about that in #ubuntu-quality 18:28
habhattii signed up as a tester yesterday, the docs are very good18:28
sidiknome, noted18:28
elfyhabhatti: I know you did \o/18:29
* sidi will let people continue their meetings18:29
sidithanks for the info18:29
knomeso anyting else under announcements?18:29
elfysidi: it's a community meeting :)18:29
pleia2thanks sidi 18:30
knomeok, let's move on18:31
knome#topic Discussion18:31
pleia2so I have a few marketing things18:31
knomeno items on the agenda, so anybody want to bring up something18:31
knomethere you go, just #subtopic it18:31
pleia2#subtopic Vivid Marketing18:31
pleia2I saw a talk at a conference recently about marketing open source projects, woo18:31
pleia2a few things I learned:18:31
pleia21. We need a press contact address on our website, all we have are dev and user list addresses18:32
pleia2I added this to the blueprint as something to work with knome on18:32
knomecould that be another mailing list?18:32
pleia2I dunno18:32
knomefor general contacts18:32
pleia2I fear it would end up dead and people wouldn't post to it18:33
knomedirecting that at anybody alone sounds bad18:33
pleia2"no one uses this, must be a bad address"18:33
pleia2well, I am the marketing lead18:33
pleia2so I could take requests and share/respond as appropriate18:33
knomeif it doesn't sound like too much work for you, then ok18:33
elfypleia2: but who'd know it was *dead* ? 18:33
pleia2shouldn't be18:33
pleia2elfy: list archives18:33
knomei guess one more idea18:33
elfysurely if foo is mailing us at it - then it would be active when it needs to be?18:34
knomewe really should set up @xubuntu.org emails, even just aliases18:34
pleia2elfy: I doubt we'll have many folks contacting us18:34
knomenow feel free to continue :)18:34
knomemake list archive private?18:34
pleia2but right now they don't have a great way to contact us at all18:34
pleia2knome: list members only perhaps18:34
pleia2aside from tweeting at us or something, which is very meh18:34
knomepleia2, something like that.18:35
pleia2knome: that could work18:35
knomepleia2, that would work even if you are on holiday or so18:35
knomeand it would be easy enough to pass on18:35
pleia2xubuntu-contact @ lists.ubuntu.com maybe?18:35
knomeand discussion related to the requests could be done on the list18:35
knomeor contacts18:36
knomeand i can be a list admin too18:36
pleia2ok, I can submit the request to Canonical IS to set it up18:36
knomeplease add me as a requestor18:36
pleia2will do18:36
pleia2alright, next thing I learned18:37
pleia22. We should have a better idea who our users are18:37
pleia2in my head, I think these are just random people who install Xubuntu on their personal machines, but I routinely bump into all kinds of developers and interesting people using Xubuntu for work at conferences18:38
habhattiweb dev here, switched because of unity18:38
pleia2so it might be nice to come up with some Personas for various users (developers, classrooms, etc) to make sure our Strat Doc meets their needs18:38
pleia2my first inclination is to create a short user survey which pretty much just asks users how they'd classify themselves user-wise18:39
pleia2like, one question18:39
pleia2Developer, User, Educator, Student, <write in>18:39
knomeif we set up some user surveys, maybe we could ask the participants if they would be ok to be mentioned on the website18:39
knometo create a parallel series to "Xubuntu at..."18:40
knomecould be 2-3 people per article18:40
pleia2ooh, yeah, maybe "if you wish to be contacted about your usage for a possible blog post, put your name and address here"18:40
habhattithat'd be nice18:40
ali1234one question isn't enough, i think. unless the question is "please write 500 words describing yourself"18:40
knomeali1234, it's a start.18:40
pleia2ali1234: I want to keep this simple, otherwise people won't do it18:40
pleia2we need to start somewhere :)18:41
ali1234well i won't answer a one word survey which is so open-ended18:41
knomeas i told sidi... we really want to avoid open-ended questions unless we really need a lot of open-ended data18:41
ali1234takes too long to write something. i can blast through multiple choice questions in no time18:41
pleia2ali1234: based on surveys I've conducted in the past, I think you're in the minority18:41
knomeali1234, you won't answer a survey with one question and a dropdown box?18:41
ali1234sure, but unless there's like 100 items in the drop down that won't tell you anything useful18:42
pleia2my short surveys always do considerably better than long ones (like, 10x as well)18:42
pleia2anyway, this is just a baseline, currently we know pretty much nothing about our users :\18:43
knomei would go with 5-10 different groups.18:43
pleia2yeah, I'll draft up an etherpad we can collaborate on with options18:43
pleia2#action pleia2 to contact Canonical IS to set up xubuntu-contacts mailing list18:43
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to contact Canonical IS to set up xubuntu-contacts mailing list18:43
pleia2#action pleia2 to draft etherpad for user self-classification survey18:44
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to draft etherpad for user self-classification survey18:44
pleia2ok, so that brings me to my last item18:44
pleia23. We should figure out if we're truly meeting the needs of our users18:44
pleia2right now we tell them to help us in the dev process early on in the cycle to talk about default options, etc18:45
pleia2but no one does this18:45
pleia2even if they make it to the table, they often don't have the expertise to review our strategy document and help us effectively18:45
knomeso i guess the question is: how do we make participation easier but at the same time, useful for the team18:45
pleia2I'm thinking another survey around March or so18:45
knomeand the other question is18:45
pleia2asking things like "what do you install after installing xubuntu"18:46
ali1234yes, a basic survey now would inform later ones18:46
knomehow should we process the data from our users, eg. if 15 people say they want libreoffice installed, should we just do that?18:46
elfywhat do we supply that you remove/don't use18:46
pleia2if we really do have an avalanche of libreoffice, that tells us something important18:46
pleia2knome: no, it's a data point18:46
pleia2we don't have to18:46
ali1234there was a survey on reddit the other day, it had an avalanche of libreoffice18:46
knomehow do we make sure it's not only the vocal minority?18:46
elfyknome: well at the moment the vocal minority do make their choices :)18:47
knomei guess it ultimately boils down to: how do we stick to what we think is "xubuntu" and at the same time, listen to our users18:47
knomeif we do whatever the users say, xubuntu will soon have this, that and the other software and won't fit on a 1GB USB18:47
pleia2knome: well, right now we have no idea except from people who yell at us :)18:48
habhattii think if you find out more about your users, you'll probably end up with requests for things that are sensibly minimal 18:48
pleia2habhatti: agreed18:48
elfysurely it's better to have some data than just team hoping we're making sensible choices18:49
pleia2elfy: that's what I'm thinking18:49
knomei don't disagree with that18:49
pleia2we don't have to be influenced by the outcome, but it's a start18:49
knomei'm just wondering that how will we know at the end of the day if libreoffice should be installed or not18:49
pleia2maybe, maybe not18:50
pleia2I think we won't know until we give it a try18:50
knomeand if we just stick to what we have decided so far, how does it help to even ask users? :)18:50
knomesure, i'm just bringing out some food for thought18:50
ali1234we won't know that unless we ask18:50
habhattiit's always positive to solicit feedback18:50
pleia2giving users a voice is important, even if it's only one piece of many in our decision18:50
habhattibuilds a sense of community18:50
elfyknome: because it's not a dozen people's voices hopefully :)18:50
ali1234how many replies did sidi get?18:51
knomethe other question related to preference on software is that how much has xubuntu-core helped people18:51
pleia2we can make that clear in the survey too, "many considerations impact our decisions in direction, this survey seeks to bring in the direct user feedback piece" or somesuch18:51
pleia2knome: yeah, maybe break out the default apps into a checkbox question?18:52
knomeand how many would consider that a fair option for getting the system they want, instead of having libreoffice installed by default for example18:52
pleia2"select tools you use"18:52
pleia2anyway, I want to do this in March, so I figure we can start this work in Feburary after we have results from the first survey18:52
knomeyep, agree with pointing out that it isn't a shouting competition and the group who shouts the loudest, wins..18:52
pleia2can etherpad up and discuss it more then18:52
pleia2knome: yeah18:53
knomeplease do so18:53
pleia2that's all from me :)18:53
knomeany other discussions?18:53
elfynot from me 18:53
pleia2and thanks to everyone for being so engaged \o/18:53
knome#topic Schedule next meeting18:54
pleia2ali1234: this is an interesting survey, would be nice to see coorelation with default apps on their respective system (are they just using what's installed, or?)18:54
knomeochosi is up next for XPL18:54
knome#nick ochosi18:54
knome#action ochosi (for XPL) to schedule next meeting18:55
meetingologyACTION: ochosi (for XPL) to schedule next meeting18:55
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Nov 24 18:55:20 2014 UTC.  18:55
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-11-24-17.59.moin.txt18:55
pleia2thanks knome 18:55
* pleia2 back2work18:55
elfyjust a point on this shuffling meeting times 18:55
ali1234pleia2: it's a google survey, the questions and answers are as you see them, people just tick whatever box18:55
knomei'll put up the minutes in a minute18:55
knomeelfy, yep?18:55
ali1234(single choice)18:55
pleia2ali1234: yeah, just musing :)18:55
elfyI wonder if someone is mentioned more than once whether they should just chair once18:55
ali1234seeing correlations would be good, but i don't that's possible unless you are survey owner18:56
knomeelfy, maybe18:56
elfyknome: moves chair AND likely meeting times around more 18:56
elfyeg ochosi is 3 times and likely to pick 11am 3 times :)18:56
elfyjust a thought18:56
knomei generally prefer the changing chair18:57
knomeeven if it means that the meeting time changes and it's harder to make/remember it18:57
knomeminutes are up18:58
elfyI agree, changing chair is a good thing :)18:58
knomeand nicely splits the burden18:59
elfyall I'm saying is that 3 out of 9 are 1 person and so of that person always picks the same time 18:59
knomeheh, yeah18:59
elfywhich is not good for others - that means that 33% of meetings are going to be missed 19:00
elfyinstead of 15% 19:00
knomei guess we could/should at least skip over a chair if a person has two or more consecutive chairs19:00
elfyjust a thought :)19:00
knomeochosi, ping ^19:01
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
habhattiHmm, are there any specific testcases for applications?20:37
elfyhabhatti: yep - they are all on the package tracker 20:38
elfyhabhatti: there are 2 trackers - one is for images, the other for packages 20:40
elfythat link is our tests - there are other sets of tests available in addition 20:40
elfyhabhatti: did you catch the testcase chat before you pinged out?21:08
habhattielfy: yes, although I missed the answer about how to look at the changes in the daily builds21:10
elfyyou only thought you said that :)21:10
elfyall we have in channel is Hmm, are there any specific testcases for applications? then you pinging out 21:11
habhattioh, here: and is there any to see what has changed in the daily build?21:11
elfynot actually sure - I tend to run a the dev version so I see what's updated by updating - everything has a changelog unless it's from a ppa21:16
elfyI've never really needed to know *what* has changed daily21:17
elfyany reason that you're thinking of for knowing?21:20
habhattioh knowing what has changed helps to focus on those packages more21:20
elfyhabhatti: well if you're testing - you don't really need to know if a package has changed unless you find a bug21:28
ali1234there isnt really a good way to do that21:30
habhattiah well, time to install this on a real machine :)21:31
* dkessel finished reading backlog21:31
elfyhabhatti: do you have a spare machine?21:31
dkesselwoooot xubuntu t-shirts21:31
dkesseland only 3 left...21:32
habhattielfy: I was thinking of triple-booting on this laptop21:32
elfythough - mine isn't so much as a spare machine as a handful of partitions 21:32
elfyyea :)21:32
habhattieasier to get these tests done since I always lug this around21:32
elfyhabhatti: when you install it - just install grub to that partition - then update whatever your main bootloader is to find it 21:32
habhattielfy: hmm, yeah. I have Win7/Xubuntu 14.04 with an encrypted home atm21:33
ali1234if you look at the ppa on launchpad you can see when packages last changed: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging21:34
ali1234+git means it's not an official release but a git snapshot21:34
elfyI'd not let it do it automatically - I'd create the partition, then manually set partitions - then you can tell it where to install grub21:35
elfyali1234: yea21:35
habhattiali1234: that works, thanks 21:35
ali1234for the detailed changelogs you can go to http://git.xfce.org21:35
elfythat's just the few ppa packages though 21:35
ali1234click the package, then "log"21:36
ali1234it's kind of tricky to filter out all the translation commits though21:36
ali1234and you have to figure out which git revision the ppa corresponds to manually21:36
ali1234some programs put the git revision in help->about21:36
habhattithank you21:37
ali1234although only if it was built from the repo, which ppas usually aren't21:37
elfynight all 21:41
knomedkessel, i'm sure that's just the first batch21:45

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