[04:27] <anmol> hii
[04:28] <anmol> i have nexus 4 android L
[04:28] <anmol> i want to dual boot
[04:28] <anmol> ubuntu touch
[04:28] <anmol> but it says unsupprted device
[04:28] <anmol> anyone here to tell me what to do
[04:28] <anmol> ???
[04:36] <anmol> it says dualboot.sh command not found
[07:32] <bzoltan> mvo: is there any progress with the click changes I need?
[07:35] <mvo> bzoltan: not yet, sorry, I'm still waiting for https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/oxide/crossbuild-friendly/+merge/234093
[07:36] <bzoltan> mvo: I have released a hackaround in this PPA https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+packages For me that is all I need.
[07:37] <mvo> bzoltan: ok, thats good to hear that you are unblocked
[07:37] <bzoltan> mvo:  that is a two month old MR :(
[07:37] <bzoltan> mvo:  I am not really unblocked.. I am actually badly blocked, because I do not like the idea that I fork the click package
[07:38] <mvo> bzoltan: https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/oxide/multi-arch-fixes/+merge/242458 is a newer one, but same problem
[07:38] <bzoltan> mvo:  it is a great and positive ambition that in vivid we just pull the ubuntu-sdk-* packages, but we should have a working release of the click in the archive
[07:39] <mvo> bzoltan: well, I guess we either need to nag chris a bit harder or I just upload it
[07:39] <bzoltan> mvo:  if you ask me then you just upload it :) I can take the blame
[07:39]  * bzoltan is good at taking the blame
[07:40] <mvo> bzoltan: haha, I will nag him today again but yeah, I think ultimately we can't be blocked on this
[07:40] <mvo> bzoltan: and yes, we need a working release of the chroot we are in total agreement here
[07:40] <seb128> oh, nagging chrisccoulson
[07:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, is it fixed yet? :p
[07:41] <bzoltan> mvo:  I am happy with the click package I am hacked together :) But I am sure you and few others would facepalm it
[07:41] <bzoltan> seb128:  once you are here ... The fix for the image source problem will land on Vivid in an hour or so.
[07:41] <mvo> bzoltan: no worries, its ok for now :) its my fault that you had to do it
[07:41] <seb128> bzoltan, hey, oh, excellent, thanks!
[07:41] <bzoltan> mvo:  it is not your fault :)
[07:41] <mvo> seb128: he just needs to merge my branch :P
[07:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, doit! ;-)
[07:42] <seb128> mvo, hey, wie gehts?
[07:42] <bzoltan> seb128: I am not very fast with confirming bugs, but I am super fast when a fix needs to land :)
[07:42] <seb128> bzoltan, that's great ;-)
[07:42] <mvo> seb128: hey! not too bad, in busy busy land right now but otherwise good
[07:42] <bzoltan> should we bribe chrisccoulson?
[07:43] <seb128> mvo, isn't busy land the normal way around here? ;-)
[07:44] <mvo> seb128: hehe
[07:55] <mardy> Saviq: hi, I just added https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtmir/+bug/1352251/comments/8
[08:01] <Saviq> mardy, I think we can work around that, scopes *do* have UI - it's the dash
[08:01] <Saviq> mardy, what pay service is doing, and you could do in OA, is add a hack that when scopes talk to you, you open the trusted session with the dash instead
[08:02] <mardy> Saviq: I'm afraid that this will cause OA windows popping out of nowhere
[08:03] <Saviq> mardy, as opposed to snap decisions popping out out of nowhere?
[08:03] <mardy> Saviq: yes :-)
[08:03] <Saviq> mardy, not really different, and the sds, I think, are a workaround already
[08:03] <mardy> Saviq: true
[08:04] <Saviq> mardy, and trusted prompts are kinda like that, they do pop out out of nowhere ;)
[08:04] <Saviq> mardy, that's their purpose :)
[08:05] <mardy> Saviq: well, I'm not opposed to get rid of the (undesigned) snap decisions and use trusted prompts all the times
[08:06] <Saviq> mardy, I believe that's the target goal anyway, we discussed the approach to headless clients already
[08:06] <mardy> Saviq: I'd just like to have some confirmation that this is the right path, I wouldn't like to have to revert changes over and over
[08:06] <Saviq> mardy, any idea who from would you like this confirmation?
[08:07] <Saviq> mardy, I think the only problem we'd be facing is "batching" the requests from clients
[08:07] <Saviq> but that's a biig topic
[08:08] <Saviq> any app can request access to all the accounts you have, and they will do that in sequence, and cause muliple consequtive OA prompts
[08:08] <Saviq> as can any scope, and we need the per-scope granularity here
[08:11] <mandel> Mirv, sil2100 do you guys know if I need to do anything for the publication of ppa 15? Line 50 in the doc
[08:18] <mardy> Saviq: ah, wait, I was again jumping on another topic, the real issue is another:
[08:18] <mardy> Saviq: a scope generally talks to OA every time the user types something on the search field
[08:18] <mardy> Saviq: most of the times, OA returns a cached token, immediately
[08:19] <mardy> Saviq: when the token is expired, OA tries to get a new one, as I explained on that comment
[08:20] <mardy> Saviq: if this can be done without showing any UI, fine, the new token is returned to the scope
[08:20] <Saviq> mardy, and if that's handled via a trusted prompt, that's the case already ,no?
[08:21] <mardy> Saviq: otherwise, we can return an error (if the scopes used some flag to instruct OA not to ever pop up any UI) or we can show a UI (trusted session, probably)
[08:21] <mardy> Saviq: wait :-)
[08:21] <Saviq> mardy, ah, ok, so you don't necessarily open a trusted session
[08:22] <Saviq> (but I think you should nevertheless)
[08:22] <mardy> Saviq: I think that the best way to do this is that the scope always sets the flag to tell OA "don't ever show a UI"
[08:22] <mardy> Saviq: only when the scopes receives an error from OA, it creates a special result which causes the dash to show a Login button
[08:23] <Saviq> mardy, then you should never connect to Mir... definitely not to the default socket :/
[08:23] <mardy> Saviq: and when the user presses that button, the scope would talk to OA again, but this time allowing the user interactions
[08:23] <mardy> Saviq: right
[08:24] <Saviq> mardy, if you need a connection to Mir for QGuiApplication, I believe you should just create the trusted session regardless of whether you need the UI or not
[08:24] <Mirv> mandel: it's already in proposed
[08:25] <Mirv> mandel: but the reason it has not migrated seems to be a claimed regression in system-image http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ubuntu-download-manager
[08:25] <mandel> Mirv, awesome, I was just confused with the msg in the spreadsheet
[08:25] <mardy> Saviq: ah, got it
[08:26] <mandel> Mirv, hm.. we will need to ping barry about this :-/
[08:26] <mardy> Saviq: yes, that would solve the issue
[08:26] <Saviq> mardy, and I think that's the correct approach, you're special UI, you shouldn't ever talk to Mir/unity8 as if you're an app (unless you want to be an app)
[08:27] <mardy> Saviq: and then yes, we definitely need trusted session to work also if the initiator pid is not connected to mir
[08:27] <Saviq> mardy, yeah, workaround for this is to just go with `initctl status unity8-dash` and say that's the initiator
[08:27] <mandel> Mirv, looks like a si failure not related with udm :-/ (https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-system-image/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/3/console)
[08:27] <mandel> well, such is life
[08:27] <Saviq> mardy, but we have a real solution in mind, too
[08:28] <Mirv> mandel: since I recently found I've powers, I pushed "rerun" on the test.
[08:28] <Mirv> not sure if it helps if it's really broken (but somewhere else)
[08:29] <mandel> Mirv, thx! lets see if it is reproducible and it fails in the same location, is definitely a good step fwd.
[08:30] <Saviq> greyback, hey, we were just chatting with mardy about bug #1352251
[08:31] <Saviq> greyback, I've come to the conclusion that (because OA/oxide need a QGuiApplication even if there's not going to be any UI in the end)
[08:31] <greyback> yep?
[08:31] <Saviq> greyback, it should always open a trusted session, so that it doesn't ever talk to the standard Mir socket
[08:31] <Saviq> so as to never be mistaken for an app
[08:32] <greyback> ok, that can work
[08:33] <greyback> but for more general cases, it's probably a bug that needs squashing. Say case of something like empathy or skype, which starts up without creating a window.
[08:34] <Saviq> greyback, do you have an idea how to do that without delaying the splash screen?
[08:35] <greyback> Saviq: if ual launching the app, we can (and usually do) rely on it to prompt the splash screen.
[08:36] <Saviq> greyback, yeah, empathy example breaks in that case ;)
[08:38] <mardy> Saviq, greyback: I think that the best option is to let app developer specify if they want to have a splash screen
[08:38] <Saviq> mardy, we always want a splash screen on the phone, for example
[08:38] <greyback> mardy: for phone/tablet, I disagree. It's only special cases like trust helpers where splash screen is not of use
[08:39] <greyback> on desktop we won't have splash screens though (I expect)
[08:39]  * Saviq can't think of a case (other than when the app does not show any window) where a splash screen is not in order
[08:39] <mardy> greyback: maybe we could prevent that flag to be used when uploading an app to the store, so that only unconfined apps could use it
[08:39] <Saviq> greyback, I think we'll have them on desktop just fine
[08:40] <Saviq> greyback, we might do something special to not show them for .1s (like only show it after 50ms from starting the app, and if it's there, showing it for a second at least)
[08:40] <Saviq> meh, not sure
[08:40] <Saviq> maybe not
[08:40] <Saviq> mardy, but we really need them for everything on phone/tablet
[08:41] <greyback> Saviq: I hope not.
[08:41] <mardy> Saviq: but we could allow unconfined apps to opt-out
[08:41] <Saviq> greyback, I'd rather have that than my tbird delaying showing a window for 5s (which it does now)
[08:41] <Saviq> mardy, but why?
[08:42] <Saviq> mardy, think of it from the user perspective, why would they ever not want instant reaction to their actions
[08:42] <mardy> Saviq: we are discussing the fact that trusted helpers (and maybe some other weird processes) might not want them
[08:42] <Saviq> mardy, yes, and we don't have splashes for trusted prompts :)
[08:42] <Saviq> solved
[08:43] <Saviq> "other weird processes" we'll need to analyze as they come in
[08:43] <mardy> Saviq: yes, but don't forget that scopes are not the only problem
[08:43] <mardy> Saviq: we have also sync-monitor, I don't think it would be appropriate to use the dash as initiator in that case
[08:44] <Saviq> mardy, sure, but if there's no app to open on top, it's not a trusted prompt, it's an app
[08:44] <Saviq> mardy, it should behave 100% like an app
[08:44] <Saviq> mardy, we don't want floating trusted prompts
[08:45] <Saviq> mardy, so notifications are quite a good use case for this
[08:45] <mardy> Saviq: remember that that bug is about the case when the UI is *not* shown
[08:45] <mardy> Saviq: we don't want a splash screen for an invisible UI
[08:46] <Saviq> mardy, and does sync-monitor need a QGuiApplication?
[08:47] <mardy> Saviq: no, I don't think so
[08:47] <Saviq> solved ;)
[08:48] <Saviq> mardy, basically, anything that connects to the default Mir socket (on the phone) should be an app
[08:48] <Saviq> mardy, I don't see anything else talking there
[08:48] <mardy> Saviq: I don't get the solution :-)
[08:48] <Saviq> mardy, if we have special use cases, we'll need to find solutions, but I really don't think adding a "don't show splash" option solves any issue for us
[08:49] <mardy> Saviq: is sync-monitor is not connected to mir, we cannot use it as initiator in a trusted session
[08:49] <Saviq> mardy, if it doesn't have a QGuiApplication, it doesn't have the problem of a splash showing when it's instantiated without a window
[08:49] <mardy> s/is/if
[08:49] <mardy> Saviq: ah, wait, I didn't explain everything then :-)
[08:50] <mardy> Saviq: sync-monitor is not the trusted helper, it's a client of OA
[08:50] <Saviq> mardy, ah, that's the twist
[08:50] <mardy> Saviq: if OA is to show a trusted prompt, it needs to create a trust session, and for that it needs the PID of a process which is connected to mir
[08:50] <mardy> Saviq: for scopes, we could use the dash
[08:50] <Saviq> mardy, ok, now I get you
[08:51] <Saviq> mardy, any idea what the UX of that is supposed to be/
[08:51] <Saviq> ?
[08:51] <mardy> Saviq: for sync monitor, probably the contacts of the calendar, but they might not be running
[08:51] <mardy> s/of/or/
[08:51]  * Saviq thinks a notification would be just fine, opening accounts as an app in its own right
[08:51] <Saviq> or some sync-monitor UI, when there is one
[08:52] <Saviq> mardy, basically, there can't be a parent-less trusted prompt
[08:52] <Saviq> mardy, so the question here is not of technical merit, but UX one
[08:52] <mardy> Saviq: no, it's of technical merit :-)
[08:53] <mardy> Saviq: let's say that sync-monitor tells OA: "give me the token for this account, but only if this doesn't require opening up a UI"
[08:53] <Saviq> mardy, ok, I know what you're saying
[08:54] <mardy> Saviq: it all boils down to that single case where we (OA) don't show a UI at all, but we still need to instantiate a QGuiApplication for oxide
[08:56] <Saviq> mardy, I think you should just go with QT_QPA_PLATFORM=minimal or something in that case ;)
[08:56] <Saviq> mardy, like if you know there's not gonna be UI, don't connect to Mir
[08:57] <Saviq> mardy, that breaks in the case when you don't know whether there's gonna be UI, but I think we got that covered by always doing trusted sessions
[08:59] <mardy> Saviq: that would probably work
[08:59] <mardy> Saviq: but... wouldn't you consider it a hack? :-)
[09:00] <Saviq> mardy, I'm considering it a workaround for the fact that oxide requires QGui
[09:00] <mardy> Saviq: I would much rather let unconfined apps turn off the splash screen if they want to -- even if it turns out that this feature is used by OA only
[09:00] <Saviq> mardy, I wouldn't :)
[09:00] <oSoMoN> mvo, hey, have you seen bug #1395862 ?
[09:00] <Saviq> mardy, since we'd have to maintain that ;)
[09:01] <Saviq> mardy, I think it's a valid approach for when you need to fake a connection to a display server
[09:03] <mardy> Saviq: well, you are stretching it a bit :-) We need a real connection, we just keep the window hidden. Under unity7, we then even show the window -- we won't do this in Ubuntu Touch only because you don't support it
[09:03] <mvo> oSoMoN: thanks, haven't seen this
[09:04] <Saviq> mardy, yeah I understand
[09:04] <Saviq> mardy, but that's what you *can* do when you're a trusted prompt
[09:04] <Saviq> mardy, the weird case is when you're trying to be an app that's never there
[09:05] <Saviq> so it's you that's creating the weirdness - you have a connection to the display server that's never going to show a window ;)
[09:07] <mardy> Saviq: you can see it this way too -- on the other hand, this kind of behaviour is probably used (even though in corner cases) by Qt and Gtk apps, so I'm afraid you'll eventually have to support it
[09:08] <mardy> Saviq: but I'll try the workaround you suggested, and if that works out, I'm fine with it
[09:12] <Saviq> mardy, yeah, I understand, we'll have to somehow deal with this, but I'm not sure right now that we will actually deal with it by dropping the splashscreen for *apps*
[09:12] <mardy> Saviq: I'm not suggesting that, you know
[09:14] <Saviq> mardy, yeah, but that's the thing, everything that has UI (other than trusted prompts) need to be apps on the phone
[09:23] <ogra_> pitti, the reason we couldnt land the adbd chnage is that the UDF we use in the lab doent put the override file in place when using --developer-mode ... by default, if you use a recent ubuntu-device-flash with this switch, it will disable the screen lock check
[09:24] <ogra_> pindonga, i just dont want to promote this to much since we really do not want people to use the switch (i want it removed from the help too) it causes to many issues with password setup etc
[09:24] <ogra_> err that was for pitti , sorry pindonga
[09:29] <dbarth> hiya, i fear my n4 is dead; the battery trick doesn't work anymore
[09:29] <dbarth> you guys know some magic to resucitate a phone?
[09:30] <dbarth> red light only when the battery is unplugged; if i plug the battery back in and connect the usb cord, the led stays off :/
[09:31] <dbarth> as an aside, i think there is something wrong in vivid that badly drains the battery
[09:33] <pitti> ogra_: ah, ok; so there's no net effect with UDF --developer-mode, thanks!
[09:33] <ogra_> right, i would have written that in my mail reply, butu dont want to expose it so much
[09:35] <ogra_> (we want devs to use the UI if possible, since that is tested and potential corner cases are known ... while --developer-mode is only focused on CI (and people usin it at home would i.e. not run the wizard so the system isnt properly set up
[10:15] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Shopping Reminder Day! :-D
[10:17] <seb128> hum
[10:17] <seb128> is the emulator supposed to work on i386?
[10:18] <seb128> other question
[10:18] <seb128> is there a known issue that on the current rtm the screen flickers once after app switching?
[10:18] <seb128> it was not doing that before, just noticed for the first time today
[10:25] <sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I am about to put vivid on an USB stick and boot the tablet from it. Unity 7 works perfectly, including hardware acceleration, let's see what Mir thinks
[10:27] <mzanetti> sturmflut-work: is this an intel graphics chip?
[10:27] <sturmflut-work> mzanetti: Jep
[10:27]  * mzanetti is confident it'll work
[10:30] <sturmflut-work> mzanetti: I am not sure, at least on my Core i7-3000 notebook the current unity8-desktop-session-mir does not work. I end up with a black screen.
[10:36] <vesar> does anybody know if there is any way to find out what is the currently flashed image version on the phone from command line?
[10:36] <ogra_> system-image-cli -i
[10:37] <vesar> ogra_, thanks!
[10:55] <davmor2> seb128: it does, however there might be an issue wher eyou get a black screen instead of the apps scope if that happens destroy and rebuild
[11:09] <alo21> Hi averybody.. I've installed Ubuntu touch on my nexus 5. Why it isn't an official supported device?
[11:10] <mandel> barry, if you are around, any idea why is this happening => https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-system-image/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/4/console
[11:11] <mandel> barry, is blocking the udm landing
[11:12] <alo21> Also I would like to contribute. Can someone help me to found out how, please?
[11:15] <ogra_> alo21, officil support means constant testing and putting developer focus on a device ...
[11:16] <davmor2> mandel: it hates you?  hate it back it works for me ;)
[11:16] <ogra_> that would mean dragging it away from other devices ...
[11:17] <alo21> ogra_: Do you think there will be am official support for nexus 5 next time?
[11:17] <ogra_> no
[11:18] <ogra_> there will soon be devices you can buy with ubuntu on them ...
[11:18] <alo21> ogra_: I really hope
[11:20] <ogra_> i would expect that we keep the N4 still supported for a while (simply because there are a ton in the lab to do automated testing, developers bought them to develop on them etc etc) ... but once that HW is obsolete i would hope that there are a bunch more ubuntu phones on the market so these will be used
[12:22] <Mirv> tsdgeos: I can still repeat the unity8 restarts with silo 027 (now at ubuntu7) by simply running the UITK autopilot tests
[12:22] <Mirv> no crash files generated it seems
[12:23] <tsdgeos> :/
[12:24] <tsdgeos> that's bad
[12:24] <tsdgeos> since the patch is already upstream
[12:24] <tsdgeos> i'll try to have a look
[12:25] <tsdgeos> Mirv: vivid, right?
[12:28] <Mirv> tsdgeos: yes
[12:38] <Mirv> oh, I did get maliit-server and unity8-dash .crash files with that method
[12:40] <tsdgeos> Mirv: so what you exactly (i have no idea how to run UITK autopilot tests) ?
[12:47] <Mirv> tsdgeos: um maybe http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9231950/
[12:48] <tsdgeos> oki, will give it a try
[14:22] <tsdgeos> Mirv: could repro the crash
[14:23] <tsdgeos> installing debug symbols to see if i get some more info
[14:33] <tsdgeos> Mirv: which are the patches that are added?
[14:35] <tsdgeos> Mirv: found them
[15:23] <tsdgeos> Mirv: yeah there's something bad in those patches, need to speak to thiago when he wakes up
[15:28] <mandel> barry, have you confirmed is a regression or jut normal timeout issues?
[15:30] <barry> mandel: there's definitely something going on.  still running my tests and investigating
[15:31] <mandel> barry, ok, thx, let me know, we can always run the tests with udm trunk and see if they pass since nothing has yet been merged
[15:31] <barry> mandel: ah, good to know, thanks
[15:40] <barry> mandel: if you eod before i figure out what's going on, i will send you an email since i'm out the rest of this week
[15:40] <mandel> barry, yes please
[15:45] <barry> mandel: the new udm is in vivid-proposed, a silo, or...?
[15:45] <mandel> barry, silo 15 in vivid has the builds you need
[15:45] <barry> mandel: thx
[16:01] <karni> Hi folks. How is a url passed into my Ubuntu phone app once the app is already running? (if it's not, I gather it's just last argument when launching the program, and passed in argc, argv)
[16:05] <greyback_> karni: I believe this is the receiver http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.UriHandler/
[16:06] <karni> uh oh, great!!
[16:06] <karni> thank you :))!
[16:06] <greyback_> url-dispatcher uses dbus to send url to an already running app,  and that's the component to let you receive it in QML
[16:06] <karni> perfect!
[16:06] <karni> Thanks Gerry :)
[16:06] <greyback_> np
[17:37] <kgunn> bzoltan: hey i was testing your sdk qmake ppa....and i admit it's been a while since i've played with ubuntu-sdk, wonder if i something set up wrongly
[17:38] <bzoltan> kgunn:  what went wrong?
[17:38] <kgunn> i followed your instructions, but on the "create new project" step....on "details" I don't have an option of "framework" showing like you do
[17:38] <kgunn> @1:14 of video
[17:38] <kgunn> ...framework simply isn't present
[17:39] <bzoltan> kgunn:  I assume you do not have the Kit created ... go to the Devices page, see the device you want to play
[17:40] <kgunn> bzoltan: so that's what is strange....on the emulator, i did do an autocreate kit...which downloaded ok...but
[17:40] <kgunn> isn't showing up there
[17:40] <kgunn> hitting autocreeate again shows "---Click exited with errors, please check the output---The click target click-ubuntu-sdk-15.04-i386 exists already"
[17:41] <kgunn> (and i had already downloaded click per your instructions)
[17:41] <bzoltan> kgunn:  so you actually have the vivid chroot. You can see it in the Options-Tools-Ubuntu
[17:43] <kgunn> bzoltan: in options->ubuntu "click" it lists vivid/i386, vivid/armhf, utopic/armhf
[17:44] <kgunn> is that what you mean ?
[17:44] <bzoltan> kgunn: What Kits do you have Options-Tools-Build&Run ?
[17:45] <kgunn> bzoltan: under manual it lists desktop(default), armhf utopic, armhf vivid
[17:46] <bzoltan> kgunn:  In the Devices mode, when you go to the emulator... do you have anything listed in the Kits section? If yes, just remove it, if not then hit the "Autocreate" button
[17:47] <kgunn> bzoltan: right, i have nothing under my "emulator" listing....when i hit autocreate, i get "---Click exited with errors, please check the output---The click target click-ubuntu-sdk-15.04-i386 exists already"
[17:47] <kgunn> shall i choose something other than 15.04 ?
[17:48] <ogra_> kgunn, if you want to target rtm 15.04 wonr help
[17:48] <ogra_> *wont
[17:48] <kgunn> ogra_: i was simply testing qmake in general
[17:48] <ogra_> ah
[17:48] <ogra_> i thougth you started an app :)
[17:49] <kgunn> ogra_: actually there is one i wanted to help out with on the weekends
[17:49] <ogra_> ++
[17:49] <kgunn> ogra_: so learning time for me :)
[17:49] <ogra_> :)
[17:50] <kgunn> ogra_: do you usse the emulator much ?
[17:51] <kgunn> ...keyboard seems wonky
[17:52] <ogra_> no, i have enough devices ... i start it ~1x per month to see it still runs
[17:55] <davmor2> kgunn: keyboard was fine yesterday it is slow however
[18:01] <bzoltan> kgunn: let's sort out your problem :)
[18:02] <bzoltan> kgunn:  The emultor is the tool what shows the Shell and acts like the phone. That one you create in the Devices tab by clicking on the "+" sign... select devel-proposed, give a nice name and wait few minutes
[18:02] <bzoltan> kgunn:  click chroots are what listed undet Options-Tools-Ubuntu ... you have there what you need
[18:03] <bzoltan> kgunn: Kits are auto created once you have both emulators and click chroots.
[18:06] <bzoltan> kgunn:  for example this is my emulator in the devices mode - http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_from_2014-11-25_20_05_22-kFL8clf9.1416938742.png
[18:08] <bzoltan> kgunn:  this is my set of click chroots - http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_from_2014-11-25_20_07_34-FNyvRn7g.1416938883.png
[18:09] <bzoltan> kgunn:  One hint if your QtCreator got confused ... just delete the ~/.config/QtProject/* sometimes the devices and kits get messed up
[18:11] <kgunn> ack, following instructions
[18:17] <kgunn> bzoltan: curious...does order matter, e.g. i show the frameworks listed under click....can i create my emulator device after i have clicks listed ?
[18:17]  * kgunn blows away his emulator....and creates a new one
[18:18]  * kgunn notices bzoltan has whitespace in his emulator name....but he's getting an error on whitespace....wonders if his qtcreator is out of date or....ancient ppa somewhere
[18:19] <bzoltan> kgunn:  the order does not matter ... the click chroots and devices are two separated stuff... the Kits are binding them together and Kits are created automatically when you register a device ... what can be an emulator or a real one
[18:19] <bzoltan> kgunn: apt-cache policy qtcreator qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
[18:22] <kgunn> man...emulator creation makes machine go slooooo
[18:22] <kgunn> qtcreator 3.1.1-0ubuntu7~0utopic1
[18:23] <kgunn> plugin is 3.1.1+15.04.20141122-0ubuntu1~0utopic1
[18:24] <kgunn> bzoltan: ^
[18:24] <bzoltan> kgunn: these are the right packages
[18:36] <kgunn> bzoltan: aha...i think i had an ancient ppa....removed it, i see emulator  & qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common being updated
[18:36] <bzoltan> kgunn:  wow
[18:37] <bzoltan> kgunn: I would clean up the ~/.config/ubuntu-sdk/ too
[18:39] <kgunn> bzoltan: clean up as in blow away ? remove
[18:39] <bzoltan> kgunn:  yes
[18:40] <bzoltan> kgunn:  clean up sounds better :)
[18:40] <kgunn> bzoltan: thanks...sorry for the hassle
[18:40] <kgunn> but fun to learn
[18:40] <bzoltan> kgunn:  no worries :) I wrapped up this day .. the kids are in sleep, wife is out of the house :)
[18:41] <kgunn> bzoltan: ....what?!??! surely you have some cold pizza, beer & binge tv watching to do :)
[18:41] <bzoltan> kgunn:  this qmake support will put us back to track... cool features are coming ... like "Add trusted helper to my project" and "import whatever Qt porject and make it Ubuntu"
[18:42]  * bzoltan looks side ... pizza - check, beer - check ... what's wrong :D
[18:42] <kgunn> lol
[18:52] <kgunn> bzoltan: hey, curious....is there a means by which one can add a ppa to the emulator ? e.g. overlay onto the chroot
[18:52] <bzoltan> kgunn:  keep in mind that emulator and chroot are not the same ... but yes, you can add PPA to both
[18:53] <bzoltan> kgunn: the chroot is strictly for build .. the emulator is an i386 edition of the phone
[18:53] <kgunn> bzoltan: ta, i assume there's prolly a wiki out there...
[18:53] <kgunn> will search in a bit
[18:53] <ogra_> just assume it is horridly outdated if there is one :)
[18:53]  * bzoltan is not a great wiki creator :)
[18:53] <kgunn> bzoltan: btw, totally sorted \o/
[18:54] <bzoltan> kgunn:  is it? Does it work?
[18:56] <pmcgowan> barry, what verification does s-i do with the update server, and does it only work over https
[18:57] <barry> pmcgowan: https is an integral part of the security story: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/GPG
[18:57] <kgunn> bzoltan: yes!!!....and your machine is faster than mine :) on video you "tap tap tap" before i did ..even tho i launched before you lol
[18:59] <kgunn> ok...takin' a break
[18:59] <bzoltan> kgunn:  quad core i7-4900MQ, 16GB ram ... t440p Lenovo... Smugled to EU from US upon the last sprint :D
[18:59] <kgunn> wow
[19:00] <ogra_> bzoltan, if now someone says bomb in this channel you are recorded in the NSA archives ;)
[19:01] <bzoltan> ogra_:  Why anybody would say bomb?
[19:01] <kgunn> ogra_: he'll get a predator missle for christmas
[19:01] <bzoltan> ogra_:  like a terrorist?
[19:02] <ogra_> lol
[19:02] <bzoltan> ogra_:  is NSA interested about custom and vat?
[19:02] <ogra_> heh, dunno
[19:03] <ogra_> i guess you'll find out at your next US trip
[19:03] <bzoltan> LOL
[19:04] <kgunn> ogra_: so should ctl+f11/f12 actually rotate for instance the messaging app ?
[19:04] <ogra_> kgunn, no, only the "device"
[19:04] <ogra_> i'm not sure if it sends an actual sensore event yet
[19:04] <ogra_> *sensor
[19:05] <ogra_> that might still be missing
[19:05] <kgunn> ogra_: ah...so in theory...but we need the back end mocl
[19:05] <kgunn> mock even
[19:05] <ogra_> yeah
[19:05] <ogra_> in general the emulator has all bits and pieces ... but we likely lack platform-api mocking
[19:06] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Emulator has a table at the bottom
[19:06] <ogra_> (iirc there are more keys though)
[19:18] <alecu> mvo: hi! do you have any ideas why installing clicks on the desktop may be failing for mzanetti, but working for me? Here's the output of pkcon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9237145/
[19:20] <alecu> btw, he's on vivid, with these packages installed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9237165/
[19:20] <alecu> I'm on utopic with this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9237167/
[19:49] <mvo> alecu: this looks like packagekit is selecting the deb backend instead of the click backend. its not entirely clear why though
[19:51] <alecu> right
[19:51] <alecu> mvo: where should we report this?
[20:09] <kenvandine> ted, so what is cgmanager?
[20:10] <kenvandine> tedg, i'm seeing quite a few of these vivid tests that failed include crash files for cgmanager
[20:10] <tedg> kenvandine, It's the interface to cgroups, basically it provides a way to control them via dbus.
[20:11] <tedg> kenvandine, There is some issues that are being tracked for it, but in general it shouldn't crash a lot...
[20:11] <tedg> kenvandine, Kinda a hot button issue right now though.
[20:11] <kenvandine> i've seen crash files for it in several autopilot jobs on mako from last week
[20:11] <kenvandine> and there was an upload on friday
[20:11] <kenvandine> not sure if that could have fixed anything
[20:12] <neo31> Hello guys, I am developing an application that requires another deb package which is available on default ubuntu repository. how can i do that with default click packages and deploy it to phone devices (and app store) or should I bundle it with the application or do some deb packaging?
[20:12] <kenvandine> neo31, you'd have to bundle it
[20:12] <kenvandine> you can't depend on anything outside of the platform
[20:12] <kenvandine> tedg, and i see your name all over cgmanager :)
[20:13] <neo31> it's just a dependency available on ubuntu repository kenvandine
[20:14] <kenvandine> tedg, i kicked a rebuild to see if it happens again... i'll come hunting you down if i see it again :)
[20:14] <kenvandine> neo31, yeah, there are lots of packages in the repository
[20:14] <kenvandine> but it would need to be defined as part of the platform
[20:14] <kenvandine> your app won't pull it in as a dependency
[20:15] <kenvandine> neo31, it's not like apt, there a platform definition you specify your app needs
[20:15] <kenvandine> and you depend on that, rather than individual packages
[20:15] <neo31> what do you mean exactly when you say "as part of the platform", do you mean that the package has to come by default with ubuntu touch on that device?
[20:15] <tedg> kenvandine, Heh, thanks :-)
[20:15] <neo31> ah ok
[20:15] <kenvandine> neo31, basically, yes
[20:16] <neo31> oups
[20:16] <kenvandine> if it's not on the device by default, it's not part of the platform
[20:16] <tedg> kenvandine, You'll probably be better off pinging stgraber or hallyn though. I'm only a user.
[20:16] <tedg> (ab)user that is
[20:16] <kenvandine> tedg, hm... i see your name in the changelog :)
[20:16] <kenvandine> hehe
[20:16] <kenvandine> tedg, i'll do that
[20:17] <neo31> well it is not then kenvandine , could I make the user install it on the device?
[20:17] <neo31> not sure what's the best way to get it there
[20:17] <kenvandine> neo31, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Click/Frameworks
[20:17] <neo31> thx for the link kenvandine
[20:18] <kenvandine> not sure that actually makes suggestions though
[20:18] <kenvandine> neo31, there is a calculus app in the click store that bundles a python runtime
[20:18] <kenvandine> for example
[20:19] <sarnold> imho this is a large weakness in our plans; we've spent two decades curating this software but then ask "app authors" to repackage it if they want to use it.
[20:19] <kenvandine> sarnold, it's a maintenance nightmare imo
[20:20] <kenvandine> there are going to be some growing pains though
[20:20] <sarnold> kenvandine: for something like python, you're dead on right; "your python upgrade broke my application! again!" ...
[20:21] <sarnold> kenvandine: but it feels awkward to think that latex is just sitting there, ready to provide awesome output quality, and instead we'd rather have app authors bundle it into their application if they want to use it.
[20:21] <kenvandine> sarnold, same applies with many things
[20:21] <kenvandine> sarnold, true... it's tough to draw the line there
[20:21] <sarnold> kenvandine: yeah
[20:21] <kenvandine> but... targeting a platform version, it'll be easier to support multiple versions of the platform
[20:22] <sarnold> I wonder if down the road we'll want to expose more archive software via different platforms
[20:22] <sarnold> ubuntu-tiny-14.10 vs ubuntu-neat-14.10 vs .. ubuntu-kitchen-sink-14.10 ...
[20:23] <kenvandine> perhaps
[20:23] <neo31> I will read that later kenvandine then see if i get the answer i need
[20:23] <neo31> thanks a lot :)
[20:23] <kenvandine> neo31, np
[20:40] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: My WTF of the day: You buy a genuine Windows 8.1 tablet, they include the cost of the license in the purchase price, two days after you unpack it the license is revoked for some unknown reason and now you are unable to ask the shop or the vendor or Microsoft for help because you never got the license key. It's not printed on the box, it's not printed on the device, and the device itself always just displays
[20:40] <SturmFlut> the last four digits.
[20:41] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: Not even Kafka could come up with something like this
[20:41] <sarnold> is it too late to return the thing for a refund?
[20:44] <SturmFlut> sarnold: Apparently in terms of "Microsoft logic" the license was revoked because it was used to activate a second Windows installation. I cannot prove I didn't try to cheat the system, they are unwilling to help, and the "solution" is that I buy a new Windows 8.1 License for the special price of 69,99 euros
[20:44] <SturmFlut> sarnold: Luckily I never intended to use Windows on the device
[20:46] <sarnold> SturmFlut: ah, that's good :) it'd be a hassle to return the thing, but I'm a big believer in voting with your wallet -- if something seems stupid after you've bought it, return it.
[20:46] <E524> hi all, i have a question, i hoped bq will announce a divce today. unfortunatelly not. but my actual device is soon dead, and a maybe earlier than bq comming from meizu is too expensive. so what would you guy's recommend. a nexus 4? will it be supported the next 2 years? is it working great?
[20:46] <bubbasaures> SturmFlut, sorry that sounds like a manufactured situation to feed your need to disparage MS, honestly as a 99% open user from the start I have found them easy to deal with when needed.
[20:51] <SturmFlut> bubbasaures: I have no need to disparage anything. All other Windows installations I have ever used were mostly okay.
[20:52] <bubbasaures> SturmFlut, Just a hard to believe story is all. ;)
[20:52] <bubbasaures> as far as no resolution
[20:53] <mvo> alecu: sorry for the slow reply, file a bug against click and I will check it out
[20:53] <mvo> alecu: and you said it works for you but not for him? with a (almost?) identical setup on vivid?
[20:55] <alecu> mvo: right. I asked mzanetti to install the click plugin for packagekit, and to restart packagekitd, but it's still not working.
[20:55] <alecu> mzanetti: can you put the error that pkcon is throwing in a bug against click?
[20:58] <mzanetti> alecu: yep, will do
[20:59] <alecu> thanks
[21:00] <mvo> mzanetti: thanks
[22:05] <aquarius> davidcalle, ping
[22:15] <SturmFlut> popey, mzanetti: The app store surpassed 600 apps. Most are webapps, but there is an increasing number of native apps for various things.
[22:18]  * mzanetti interested in more stats
[22:18] <mzanetti> SturmFlut: how many native?
[22:18] <mzanetti> can you filter that somehow?
[22:24] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: Hmmmm, no. The only parameter I see which could be used to somewhat distinguish webapps from other apps is "binary_filesize"
[22:25] <mzanetti> ok... would count local webapps to native ones... but I guess that would be ok, given that I'm mostly interested in "works offline" vs "requires network" anyways
[22:33] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: I could download every new click package, extract it and cache the .desktop file. Then it is easy, all webapps use "Exec=webapp-container"
[22:34] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: I'll have to implement caching anyways, the script runs more than a minute now because it needlessly downloads detail information for all apps over and over again.
[22:37] <mzanetti> SturmFlut: well, it's not that important... but if you do such things anyways, the stats would be interesting