[00:00] <knome> pleia2, you near a printer now and have five minutes or so?
[00:00] <ochosi> mhm
[00:04] <ochosi> ali1234: btw, panel-switch just saved the day once again ;)
[00:05] <knome> or anybody else have a printer and 5 mins? :)
[00:06]  * slickymaster have the time but not the printer
[00:07] <knome> then you are useless :)
[00:07] <knome> sorry!
[00:07]  * slickymaster is unmotivated, again :(
[00:07] <knome> lol
[00:10]  * sidi-valencia pets slickymaster
[00:10] <sidi-valencia> there, there
[00:10]  * slickymaster thanks sidi-valencia 
[00:12] <slickymaster> lol, I wonder how come the XPL hasn't yet put a end in all this pointless chats'
[00:13] <ochosi> luckily i have better things to do than play irc-police at 1am
[00:13] <slickymaster> :)
[00:14] <Unit193> slickymaster: Shush!
[00:15]  * slickymaster hides
[00:15] <sidi-valencia> brainwash, it's got nothing to do with you
[00:17] <brainwash> it? I don't understand without any backlog
[00:17] <knome> brainwash, that was the joke.
[00:17] <sidi-valencia> slickymaster hiding
[00:17] <sidi-valencia> not your fault
[00:17] <slickymaster> :)
[00:17] <sidi-valencia> also, what knome did before
[00:18] <sidi-valencia> don't blame yourself, really
[00:18] <slickymaster> tbh it was Unit193's fault, brainwash 
[00:19] <sidi-valencia> yeah i reckon
[00:19]  * sidi-valencia shuts up.
[00:21] <knome> so anybody has a printer? :P
[00:22] <slickymaster> what a team knome 
[00:22] <knome> yeah, way to go!
[00:22] <Unit193> knome: For?
[00:22] <knome> Unit193, flyer printout test
[00:23] <sidi-valencia> knome, let me take a night bus to uni for you
[00:23] <sidi-valencia> oops
[00:23] <knome> sidi-valencia, haha
[00:26] <brainwash> knome: the fix for bug 1310264 will be backported to trusty, but I thought that we cannot allow such a change after final release
[00:26] <brainwash> altering the UI I mean
[00:26] <knome> can always if there's paperwork done and sru team approves
[00:27] <brainwash> oh ok, I'm glad that some user cared about it and made it possible
[00:29] <knome> that's good
[00:31] <jjfrv8> knome, still want a printer?
[00:32] <knome> jjfrv8, yep!
[00:32] <slickymaster> hey jjfrv8 
[00:32] <jjfrv8> howdy, slickymaster 
[00:32] <knome> jjfrv8, please pastebin me your 'lpoptions -l'
[00:32] <jjfrv8> lpoptions -l
[00:33] <jjfrv8> whoops
[00:33] <skellat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9241340/
[00:33] <skellat> Though I do have cups-pdf as my default
[00:33] <knome> skellat, you can do lpoptions -d DEVICE -l
[00:34] <knome> ok, jjfrv8 Unit193 and skellat, next thing:
[00:34] <sidi-valencia> knome, Xub only or should i try to ssh to uni?
[00:34] <knome> if you don't know your printers machine name, check it with 'lpstat -a'
[00:34] <knome> sidi-valencia, any unix system does, but you'll have to be able to look at the printed stuf
[00:34] <knome> *stuff too
[00:34] <sidi-valencia> ah nvm
[00:34] <knome> yeah :)
[00:35] <skellat> knome: For my actual printer -- http://paste.ubuntu.com/9241350/
[00:35] <knome> skellat, interesting, you have .FB modes, Unit193 doesn't
[00:35] <skellat> HP-Officejet-Pro-8100
[00:35] <knome> so once you know the printer name
[00:35] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.flyer/
[00:35] <knome> grab a file from there
[00:36] <knome> naturally, pick the one that matches your paper size
[00:36] <knome> after that, run:
[00:36] <knome> lp -d [device-name] -o fit-to-page -P 1 [filename]
[00:37] <knome> then, the hardest part of this excersize:
[00:37] <knome> fold the flyer in three.
[00:37] <knome> after you've folded it, see if the pages look like they align with the folds
[00:38] <knome> specifically, see if the "page" on the right hand side has a big right margin, or the "page" that is on the left hand side has a big left margin
[00:38] <knome> ideally, all the "pages" should align to the middle of each fold
[00:39] <knome> and i'm here for questions :)
[00:39]  * skellat goes to find somebody else in the house to try folding this **correctly**
[00:40] <knome> :D
[00:40] <sidi-valencia> can i dump feedback that comes to mind on content? and if so can i be told more about the targets?
[00:40] <knome> if you can fold it even nearly as it should, it should be obvious if the alignment is ok
[00:41] <knome> sidi-valencia, i facepalm very hard at you, but you can send feedback on the content to me
[00:41] <sidi-valencia> knome, <3
[00:42] <sidi-valencia> knome, i find it funny to advertise a settings manager, im wondering, what would people find "cool" to do on a computer and among the cool features which do you guys provide? w/ *buntu you surely have a number of nice and exclusive assets
[00:42] <skellat> knome: Big right margin on both print attempts
[00:42] <knome> skellat, ok, let's try this:
[00:42] <sidi-valencia> but well you speak about terminals so i guess it's targeted to linuxians :-)
[00:43] <knome> in the lp command, after the other option, add: -o Media=Letter.FB
[00:44] <knome> jjfrv8, you need assistance? :)
[00:44] <skellat> knome: And that version looks correct and folds correctly
[00:44] <knome> great.
[00:44] <knome> thanks
[00:44] <knome> i'm still interested of more results..
[00:46] <knome> but it is weird that the printer requires the .FB mode even if we're not REALLY printing so close to the edges that it'd need it
[00:47] <jjfrv8> knome, http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/flyer46.php
[00:47] <knome> huh. yeah, that's off
[00:48] <knome> jjfrv8, did you have .FB modes in lpoptions -l ?
[00:48] <knome> if you do, please try with one
[00:48] <knome> that should fix the alignment
[00:48] <jjfrv8> not sure. I got a "unable to open PPD file for printername" when I ran that command
[00:48] <knome> hmm...
[00:49] <knome> with just the -l option?
[00:49] <jjfrv8> ja
[00:49] <knome> maybe you need to specify the printer device name
[00:49] <knome> what does 'lpstat -a' give you?
[00:50] <jjfrv8> "printername accepting requests"
[00:50] <knome> ok, weird
[00:51] <knome> just try and see what happens if you add -o Media=Letter.FB
[00:51] <jjfrv8> to which command?
[00:51] <knome> to the lp command
[00:52] <jjfrv8> keep the -o fit-to-page as well?
[00:52] <knome> yep
[00:53] <knome> that option is weird, because to me it tells that it should resize the content, but it actually preserves the original size here... go figure :)
[00:53] <knome> but that's how it worked for me
[00:54] <jjfrv8> that spread things out. let me re-fold
[00:54] <knome> ooh :)
[00:54] <knome> Unit193, you still around?
[00:56] <Unit193> There's a chance.
[00:57] <knome> lol
[00:57] <knome> then try that print
[00:57] <knome> you can try to cheat and add .FB even if it's not listed as supported
[00:58] <jjfrv8> knome, result of second try: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/flyer213.php
[00:59] <knome> looks much more like it should
[00:59] <knome> do the pages generally appear as aligned for you?
[00:59] <jjfrv8> yeah
[00:59] <knome> yep
[00:59] <knome> thanks!
[00:59] <jjfrv8> welcome
[00:59] <knome> i guess i'll investigate next what i'd need to do in order to support non-.FB modes..
[01:01] <Unit193> Looks a bit off center, but meh.
[01:03] <knome> Unit193, try adding the .FB option
[01:38] <knome> jjfrv8, still around and want to try one more thing?
[01:38] <jjfrv8> shoot
[01:38] <knome> let me upload a file first
[01:39] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.flyer/
[01:39] <knome> grab the "cropbox" one
[01:39] <knome> then try printing without the .FB argument
[01:40] <jjfrv8> just a sec
[01:42] <jjfrv8> printed but let me grab my implements again
[01:42] <knome> mhm
[01:48] <jjfrv8> left and right margins look better but folds are worse, eh: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/flyer310.php
[01:49] <knome> yeah...
[01:49] <knome> that might still be the right route
[01:49] <knome> thanks again
[01:49] <knome> i should be able to get a hold of a printer tomorrow and now i know what to play around with
[01:50] <knome> too bad it isn't a given that any printer can print "over" the media size
[01:51] <jjfrv8> k, good luck.
[01:51] <knome> thanks
[01:51] <knome> we'll get this out before the end of the year!
[01:51] <jjfrv8> :)
[01:54] <Unit193> bluesabre: And, read the patch pilot report, https://code.launchpad.net/~brunonova/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-default-settings/lp1310264/+merge/238935 (FWIW, there's another xubu mention: https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563/+merge/239668)
[01:54] <Unit193> Full report: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-November/038543.html
[02:15] <knome> nighty! -->
[02:44] <pleia2> knome: sorry, will have some time on wednesday
[02:46] <Unit193> pleia2: Howdy.  Were you looking into epub?
[02:47] <pleia2> Unit193: nope
[02:47] <Unit193> Ah, OK.
[02:47] <pleia2> knome said he had a work item about it
[02:48] <Unit193> Yep, "Briefly investigate possibilities to export DocBook to other formats"
[11:12] <knome> pleia2, that's okay :D
[11:38] <bluesabre> Unit193: got it. Will get to the xkb-plugin tonight.  It's been hectic.
[11:40] <bluesabre> bbl
[17:01] <ochosi> i think as soon as intelligent hiding of the panel is fixed/released and we ship it, we could reconsider re-adding the bottom panel to xubuntu's layout
[17:01] <ochosi> (we could also put it to the left side)
[17:16] <brainwash> ochosi: and switch back to the classic app menu? :)
[17:18] <brainwash> whiskermenu was the reason to get rid of the bottom panel
[17:19] <brainwash> the main reason
[17:19] <GridCube> i still use a panel as a launcher for basic apps
[17:20] <GridCube> but having whiskers made xubuntu more accesible to my family that doesnt understand much of computers, having a menu where you type what you want and it searchs that app for you you its very useful
[17:21] <ochosi> brainwash: i don't think it's necessarily an either-or and i like to test different setups before the lts
[17:22] <ochosi> i remember there were some users who really liked the bottom panel and wanted it back after we removed it
[17:24] <brainwash> this reminds me that we should not have removed the bottom panel, only hide/deactivate it, so the user can easily enable it again
[17:26] <brainwash> a preconfigured bottom panel is a good idea
[17:28] <ochosi> how would you go about hiding/deactivating it?
[17:29] <ochosi> the best thing would be to simply have a UI for panel-switch and to ship it with a few presets
[17:29] <brainwash> I think you can hide panel-1 and so on
[17:30] <brainwash> maybe it's a hidden switch -> settings editor
[17:30] <brainwash> I cannot test it right now
[17:31] <elfy> why have 2 panels? wherever they are (- which is obviously a moot point to me)
[17:32] <brainwash> the bottom panel could be optional
[17:32] <brainwash> hidden by default, so the user can re-enable it easily
[17:32] <elfy> if we've got a couple of cycles to play - why not play with position first
[17:33] <brainwash> isn't there only one sane position?
[17:33] <elfy> personally I've no particular axe to grind here - as the panel is never what I want anyway :)
[17:33] <elfy> brainwash: apparently not :D
[17:34] <brainwash> I like the idea of having an optional preconfigured panel
[17:35] <elfy> so do I - I'll choose the options :)
[17:35] <brainwash> sadly the panel cannot keep track of running programs, so it's not that useful
[17:35] <brainwash> like all the other dock apps
[17:36] <elfy> mine show's what I've got running 
[17:36] <brainwash> but the old bottom panel does not, it has only some normal app launchers
[17:37] <elfy> old is old and gone - why even bring it up? 
[17:37] <elfy> surely we're talking about the future 
[17:38] <brainwash> the next LTS release
[17:38] <elfy> missing my point :)
[17:38] <brainwash> and it's just some random thought
[17:39] <elfy> :)
[17:41] <elfy> what I'm saying is - not much point in talking about what the old one did, making assumption that a replacement would be exactly the same
[19:39] <jjfrv8> ochosi, quick question on powerman: is there any actual difference on a laptop among the blanking, sleeping and switching off settings of the display?
[20:28] <jjfrv8> bbl
[21:25] <habhatti> hello
[21:28] <elfy> hi habhatti :)
[21:29] <habhatti> hey elfy, installed vivid today :)
[21:30] <elfy> \o/ 
[21:30] <elfy> nice :)
[21:31] <Unit193> habhatti: Howdy.  So I missed it, where'd you come from? :D
[21:33] <habhatti> Unit193: Hey. I'm from Pakistan.
[21:34] <Unit193> Ah, sidi's survey.
[21:38] <slickymaster> hey guys
[21:39] <elfy> hi slickymaster 
[21:40] <elfy> bluesabre: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-November/010488.html
[21:41] <habhatti> hey slickymaster 
[21:41] <elfy> I replied - but not sure where they should report that :)
[21:41] <slickymaster> habhatti o/
[21:42] <slickymaster> that's a strange one elfy :P
[21:43] <elfy> slickymaster: yea - not really a whisker bug - as it's doing exactly what it should :)
[21:43] <slickymaster> yes
[21:43] <elfy> prior to all settings be visible in whisker it wasn't an issue of course
[21:43] <slickymaster> yeaps
[21:44] <slickymaster> let's blame knome on this one elfy 
[21:44] <elfy> ha ha ha
[21:44] <slickymaster> it was him who started all with bug 1310264
[21:46] <elfy> yep - which I +1'd :)
[21:47] <slickymaster> booooo elfy 
[21:48] <elfy> well it was a bug that affected me :p
[21:48] <slickymaster> lol
[21:51]  * Unit193 doesn't use whisker. :D
[21:52] <slickymaster> thb, I like it Unit193 
[21:53] <Unit193> You're permitted to. :P
[21:53] <slickymaster> ;)
[21:55] <Unit193> bluesabre: FWIW, Ubuntu is looking into hexchat-indicator now, but not sure it's worth much.
[21:56] <elfy> saw that conversation in bits
[23:40] <ochosi> jjfrv8: yeah, blanking only puts a black layer on the screen, so the display is still switched on. suspend/sleep means it'll wake up more quickly then when it's really switched off. the time/difference depends on the hardware though
[23:58] <jjfrv8> ochosi, thanks. so is it true for laptops as for desktops that some hardware might not support switching off?
[23:58] <ochosi> afaik there is no good data on what hardware supports what exactly
[23:59] <ochosi> e.g. the distinction between sleep and suspend in DPMS is not very transparent
[23:59] <ochosi> supposedly there's a wakeup-time difference between standby and suspend as well
[23:59] <ochosi> but yeah...