[00:00] (we considered exposing both standby and suspend to the user, but it just complicates the UI and we don't even know ourselves what the difference is in reality) [00:00] ok, I'll pay closer attention when testing my laptop to see if I notice a time diff with each. [00:00] yeah, but frankly for the docs feel free to just add a paragraph that says that we don't *really* know for sure [00:01] but I was just wondering about the difference for both testing and the docs. It's easy to see on a monitor with an LED the differences. [00:04] ah ok [00:29] ochosi: should we fix bug 1396804 in xubuntu? [00:29] bug 1396804 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396804 [00:31] keep it downstream [00:32] nah [00:32] rather fix it upstream [00:32] the main problem as far as i can see are translations within the desktop file [00:33] but the new name will also appear in the settings manager [00:33] but if you can, please check whether there's already an upstream report and if not, submit one, so i can bring it up with nick once we're both around [00:33] why would upstream want such a change? [00:33] why wouldn't it? [00:33] there is no need to change it [00:34] * ochosi shrugs [00:34] same for xfdesktop-settings [00:34] which is named "Desktop" [00:34] that's different though [00:34] whisker menu is not an official Xfce panel plugin [00:35] there's no "application" of the desktop that you'd launch from anywhere [00:35] theoretically we could also try to hide the desktop file from whiskermenu somehow [00:37] bug 1352653 [00:37] bug 1352653 in pcmanfm (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Software Center>Desktop Preferences describes PCManFM" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352653 [00:38] is similar [00:38] see comment #4 [00:39] yeah [00:40] so, the entry in http://docs.xfce.org/_media/xfce/xfce4-settings/xfce4-settings-manager.png would be "file manage preferences" instead of "file manager" [00:40] anyway, fixing it downstream = meh, because of translations in the .desktop file [00:40] yea, so... what can we do? [00:41] * ochosi shrugs [00:42] "not fixable" :D [00:44] can't we just provide the translations for it? [00:45] downstream hacks are ugly :/ [00:45] as you pointed out yourself, it's not just about translations, it's also about the consistency in the settings manager [00:46] do we care about this? [00:46] and yeah, i really wouldn't wanna do this downstream anyway (not only because of translations) [00:46] well, i understand the concern, but right now, i don't have a good solution/idea [00:46] if i have one, i can take another look, if you have one, feel free to ping me [00:47] maybe.. in the distant future [00:47] lets mark it as wishlist in the meantime [00:49] well feel free to comment that we don't have a good solution but acknowledge the problem [00:50] I will [00:52] thanks [01:09] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-contacts [01:09] ta-da! [01:09] need to add details and things, but the list has been created, so yay :) [01:10] :) [01:10] nice work [01:10] i only read the meeting logs afterwards, but i thought you initially didnt want to set up a list..? [01:10] (cause it might feel deserted/dead) [01:12] yeah, we'll just hide the archives [01:12] haha [01:12] alright, problem solved :] [01:12] frankly, i did like the idea of having a specific person to contact [01:12] bus factor was a fair point [01:13] the threshold of contacting an individual seems lower than to send an email to a list [01:13] yeah, i get that. but otoh do you really think we'd get many requests? [01:13] not really :) [01:13] the low expected quantity of traffic is another argument against a separate list imo [01:13] it's just overkill [01:14] * pleia2 shrugs [01:14] and after all, who would answer? my guess would be people in -team [01:14] so why not just add a forward to the dev-ml [01:14] then at least ppl dont have to subscribe to another list [01:14] ;) [01:14] [01:15] they don't need to subscribe [01:15] anyways, it's up to you, you're the marketing lead, just speaking my mind [01:15] I appreciate your input :) [01:15] we won't advertise it as a mailing list, just giving the email address [01:16] I think we probably should lock down who all can subscribe, like maybe restrict it to -team [01:17] ah ok [01:17] yeah, restrict subscriptions [01:17] so it is sort of a foward [01:17] forward [01:17] that's a different thing then [01:17] it's for the safety if pleia2 decides to disappear one day [01:18] and at the same time, a place to keep contacts archive [01:18] knome: what do you think, restrict who can subscribe? [01:18] yeah. [01:18] ok, doing that now [01:18] and moderate all non-member posts, but i guess that's the default [01:19] * ochosi shudders at the thought of pleia2 disappearing [01:19] ok, made it "Require approval" for people subscribing [01:20] :D [01:20] and tbh, the policy should be "no non-xubuntu marketing/team people as subscribers" [01:21] I dunno, if others are interested I don't see why we can't have them on [01:21] it's not like our team is that big ;) [01:22] but that would mean their replies would be non-moderated... [01:23] unless we moderate all messages.. [01:23] i mean, [01:23] i don't want it to become another place for "high" quality commentary [01:24] if somebody contacts us because they want to interview us for a, say, tv ad, we don't want jamppa from finland to reply "YEAAAhHH" [01:24] er, who? [01:24] only xubuntu team members are on the list, we haz no jamppa from finland :) [01:24] jamppa... "a guy" :D [01:24] lol [01:25] i thought you meant outside xubuntu team [01:25] i mean sure, anybody who is interested about marketing for xubuntu [01:25] oh, no, just xubuntu-team or people who have talked to me re: marketing [01:25] but isn't it implied that they are kind of part of the marketing team anyway? [01:25] who, xubuntu-team? [01:26] oh em gee [01:26] people on xubuntu team who are interested about marketing [01:26] yeah [01:26] so yeah, welcome [01:26] oh, and [01:26] please add a work item for fixing the "in moderation queue" email text [01:27] we want it to say "our marketing team will get to your message as soon as possible blah blah" [01:27] when I see subscription requests come in, I'll say, "oh yes, that's ochosi *confirm*" or "oh, jamppa from finland, who is that? *polite decline*" [01:27] not "your message is pending" [01:27] yeah, was just looking for that option... [01:27] it is there [01:27] on the right hand column on the admin interface [01:27] says something about messages [01:28] Edit the public HTML pages and text files [01:28] hmm no [01:30] maybe Auto-responder [01:30] I shall test [01:30] mmh [01:31] Text to include in any rejection notice to be sent to moderated members who post to this list. [01:31] under Privacy options... -> Sender filters [01:32] oh, neat [01:32] oh [01:32] not that [01:32] but [01:32] hah [01:32] Text to include in any rejection notice to be sent to non-members who post to this list. This notice can include the list's owner address by %(listowner)s and replaces the internally crafted default message. [01:32] but that still only talks about rejection [01:32] :| [01:32] yeah [01:34] doof, I didn't turn moderation on for non-subscribers (I thought it was default?) [01:35] now we have a funny thing in the archives \o/ [01:35] go me [01:35] :D :D [01:36] hopefully not a gif of a cat.. [01:36] I ask about oranges [01:36] :D [01:37] Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. [01:37] hm, that is set to Hold [01:37] yeah.. [01:37] hey everyone [01:39] maybe mailman was being clever, I'll try sending from another account [01:39] :D [01:40] soon we'll have a bunch of queries about different fruit [01:40] haha [01:40] ok, that worked (not go through) [01:40] now everyone gets 2 messages when they email us :s [01:41] moderated, and "we will get to you soon" [01:41] bleh [01:41] hey bluesabre [01:41] pleia2, yeah.. [01:41] maybe we can turn off the you've been moderated message [01:41] see PM :D [01:41] oh :) [01:42] hey bluesabre [01:42] how are things? going to try to get some stuff done tonight (finally) [01:42] well there we go [01:42] great [01:42] * knome tests [01:43] right... [01:44] now create a work item to make that message a bit less terse and a bit more warm :) [01:44] can assign me [01:44] go for it :) [01:46] papple is an abomination [01:46] bluesabre: i've tried to participate a bit in the recent upswing in xfce activity and submitted two patches to the panel [01:47] other than that, i didn't really get to do much xubuntu-specific tasks [01:47] ochosi: great! I'll try to catch up to that too [01:47] (many tasks, gah, tired) [01:47] knome: hm, looks like it only sends that reply to an address once (I tried to test again, got no reply, but I presume you did? [01:47] suppose it's no big deal [01:48] once they've emailed us once they know the drill, no need to tell them we're looking at it [01:49] pleia2, umm, there was a grace period bit [01:49] let me see if i can find that [01:49] oh ok [01:49] I made a thing http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as [01:50] PM [01:50] thx [01:50] so i guess setting that to a week or so could be fine [01:50] or few days [01:50] or simply 0 [01:50] or one per day.. [01:50] see, i'm open to options [01:51] hehe [01:51] let's do 2 weeks [01:51] there [01:51] two pleia2's at the pad [01:51] o.o [01:52] I opened it at my desk earlier today [01:52] double the writing power [01:52] my desk is all the way over there [01:53] :D [01:53] see the pad, a question [01:54] pleia2, easier to cross-examine with two questions? [01:54] maybe [01:54] first: How would you describe the way you use Xubuntu? [01:54] second: How would you describe yourself? [01:55] sure [01:55] then we could find out how creative people use xubuntu [01:56] I use xubuntu at work now :D [01:56] \o/ [01:56] and one other person there is also using it.... slowly converting KY [01:58] "my partner makes me use it" [01:59] bluesabre, awesome [01:59] bluesabre: weee that's great! [01:59] maybe you can argue for a "free hour" per week to hack on xubuntu ;) [02:00] yay! [02:00] that idea gets the seal of knome's approval [02:00] and traditionally, that's stamped on the cheek of the idea's father/mother [02:00] * knome stamps ochosi's cheek [02:00] *BLAM!* [02:00] hahah [02:00] :D [02:01] pleia2, considering about the unemplyed/pensioner because i don't know if that's useful information for us [02:01] yeah, I'm not sure either [02:01] pleia2, does "humane sector" sound correct to you at all? [02:01] nope, I have no idea what that is :) [02:01] ouch [02:02] pleia2, like, healthcare, social services? [02:02] ah [02:02] yay, i fixed intelligent hiding for the panel \o/ [02:02] pleia2, job you do with/for humans [02:02] versus working on a computer :) [02:02] I thought it meant NGO [02:02] oh, nope [02:03] I don't know how we call that in the US [02:03] maybe we could do one category for volunteers/non-profit organization workers [02:03] pleia2, we'll just use the finnish one then, "Sosiaali- ja terveysala" [02:03] haha [02:04] maybe "Humanitarian" [02:04] I clearly don't know what people do for jobs in this world [02:05] i happen to know that only because myself and my wife have a degree on that :P [02:05] and my sister... [02:05] and my sister's husband [02:05] and most of my friends [02:05] but other than that, me knowing it would be a pure accident! [02:05] buncha liberals [02:06] who said people who work with people are liberals ;) [02:06] :) [02:06] humanitarian doesn't include all kinds of voluntary tasks [02:07] am i a humanitarian because i don't ask pleia2 to pay me salary for building the xubuntu website? [02:07] btw, this is going deep ;) [02:08] even paid, helping people tends to be a bit of a liberal thing here, unless people are doing it through their religious institution [02:08] I had a very long day, going to get eyeballs away from computer for a bit [02:08] awwwh! [02:09] stop being so liberal and get back to work [02:09] haha [02:09] well, enjoy [02:09] let's see if i'm still here when you get back [02:10] <- 4am [02:10] :P [02:10] thanks [02:11] Noskcaj: I've built and installed the package from https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563/+merge/214365 [02:12] however, how should the patch function? if I change the system font, that font does not budge. [02:21] pleia2, some comments on the pad === Punna is now known as Pwnna === J21_ is now known as J21 [06:38] bluesabre, That's how it's meant to function AFAIK. It's been a few months since i tested it, so i'm not sure if it's the patch is fully broken of something else changed [07:54] bluesabre: bug 1396804 [07:54] bug 1396804 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396804 [09:14] brainwash: gah, i thought you'd comment on that bug after our lengthy talk about it? ^ [09:14] just to save others from wasting time on it [13:02] ochosi: re that ^^ , seems like a daft reason to not deal with it - orage turns up 3 times if you look in whisker - but they aren't all called Orage only ;) [13:13] ochosi: one option is to just hide the file manager preferences (they can still be accessed from within thunar) [13:13] as in Hidden=True in the desktop file [13:14] hi bluesabre :) [13:14] hey elfy [13:14] us holiday, so I'm around a bit longer than usual [13:15] :) [13:15] until bloated? :D [13:15] yup [13:15] :D [13:15] Noskcaj: I'll have a closer look at it, but if that is how it is meant to function, I think that means it does nothing [13:15] heh [13:16] re whiskermenu and application settings - I'd argue the case for NONE being visible tbh [13:16] we don't have abiword prefs in there or x or y or z [13:16] just a couple for some reason [13:17] and if you DID want settings for foo - the obvious place to find it would be in foo's menu somewhere [13:17] yes, I agreee with that [13:17] :) [13:18] I'm not completely insane then .... [13:20] bbl [13:23] seeya [13:28] bluesabre: yeah i know, but that's not extremely nice either... [13:33] fwiw, typing file manager in whisker and hitting enter launches thunar and not the prefs, so not sure what the user is talking about there [13:34] assuming whisker is not random in its activities [13:36] i guess it isn't [13:36] btw, i contacted graeme gott yesterday because there is no more bug tracker for whisker [13:36] and since he just pushed a few fixes and translations, i thought it's a good time to ask [13:36] also, i offered to set him up on git.xfce.org if he wants [13:36] cool [13:36] then we could get him a bugzilla as well [13:37] exactly [13:37] and from the xubuntu perspective, it sucks to ship something without a bugtracker [13:37] glad to see andrew making progress on this issue, https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1366534 [13:37] Launchpad bug 1366534 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "lightdm lefts a11y (at-spi*) process behind" [Undecided,New] [13:37] ochosi: agreeed [13:37] my guess is he received too many feature-requests or something and then disabled it [13:37] I know how that goes [13:38] @knome [13:38] yeah [13:38] bluesabre: Error: "knome" is not a valid command. [13:38] can be frustrating [13:38] :) [13:38] bluesabre: how much maintenance do you have to carry out on e.g. mugshot atm? [13:39] dkessel: you'll be glad to know that I've nearly finished giving concise names to catfish widgets, and will have a clear mapping laid out as well [13:39] ochosi: not much, I fix issues as they appear since its tiny [13:39] cause i was wondering whether we could set up a very basic UI for panel-switch together, i wouldn't expect that to be much maintenance either [13:40] yeah, we could do that [13:40] doesn't have to happen this cycle, but i fear lderan won't get to it (at least he hasn't been around very much lately) [13:40] i've previously done mockups and i think i have a good idea of how the simplistic UI could look like [13:40] will probably be around this weekend. If you want to make a mockup or throw the glade file together, I can connect the dots [13:40] ah [13:40] basically it's a load/save app [13:41] where can I find said mockups? [13:41] i just realised i might've only uploaded one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/PanelLayoutSwitcher [13:42] i'd do it even more simplistic now [13:42] just a listview, no screenshot [13:42] it's easy enough to switch and try it, a screenshot/preview doesn't help too much i guess [13:42] it might be that the app itself isn't feature-complete, but that also depends on what we want [13:42] fair enough [13:43] I think we'll find what we need as we start building it [13:43] yeah [13:43] i think that the basic functionality is enough [13:43] might come up with a basic zip and manifest file for required plugins [13:43] e.g. checking for installed plugins would be one feature and issueing a warning [13:43] ^ [13:43] :) [13:43] but otoh it doesn't really matter you know [13:44] cause if you're not having a plugin installed, it simply won't show in the panel [13:44] it's not like your desktop goes down in flames in that case [13:44] yeah, but then there will be stupid bugs [13:44] "where is the clock? I want my clock?" [13:44] stupid bugreports/ers you mean! ;) [13:44] checking for installed plugins might be a pain though [13:44] maybe [13:45] we'll check it out as we go [13:45] anyway, if we look into it too much, we might as well integrate it in the panel for real... [13:45] so yeah, i'd just do a very basic backup/restore thing [13:45] ok [13:46] if I get time, I'll get a basic implementation together this weekend [13:46] should be a piece of cake [13:46] or cheese [13:46] the command-line part of the app is fully functional already [13:46] hehe [13:46] cheese-cake! [13:46] yummy [13:46] even better [13:46] * ochosi rubs his belly [13:46] where is ali's code fo that again? [13:46] nv, [13:46] https://github.com/ali1234/panel-switch [13:47] its on the wiki [13:47] actually the *code* is on github ;) [13:47] ok, no reason not to work on that now [13:47] :) [13:47] hehe [13:47] * ochosi goes to the drawing board [13:49] cool [13:49] heading out for family things now [13:50] ping me with updates, or any bugs I need to get to... finally getting back into the xubuntu world [13:50] cool [13:50] wb then :) [13:50] i'll ping you with the mockup once it's ready [14:10] bluesabre: ok, the wiki page has been updated with the new mockup: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/PanelLayoutSwitcher [14:13] bluesabre: i added a few notes below on how it should behave, if you have questions just ping me [16:31] hello [16:37] hi habhatti [16:38] I'm not sure whether this is a bug in 15.04, but the boot screen is clipped on both sides. [16:38] habhatti: both sides == left+right? [16:39] ochosi: Yes. [16:39] might be a driver issue anyway, unfortunately plymouth isn't very flexible/clever in that respect [16:39] It's full-screen on 14.04, clipped in 14.10/15.04 [16:39] but if you wanna try another plymouth theme, e.g. ubuntu's and verify whether it works with that, i can take a look [16:39] a-ha [16:39] odd [16:40] well i remember adding support for multi-monitor setups, but i believe i did that pre-14.04 [16:40] dell inspiron 5521, laptop screen [16:42] right, but the graphics card/driver might be more important [16:42] but anyway, try a different plymouth theme for starters [16:42] you could even try the 14.04 theme in 15.04 [16:44] sure, um, xubuntu-plymouth-theme? [16:49] ochosi, got another powerman question for you... http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/powermaninactivity.php [16:49] how come the smallest value you can set "Put system to sleep when inactive for" is 14? [16:49] you can set it lower in Settings Editor, and it does work for that duration, but when you move the slider to "Never", it goes back to 14 in Settings Editor [16:50] that looks like a bug [16:50] but yeah, the minimum time is 14 minutes [16:50] that's a historical setting, not sure why exactly that amount of time was chosen [16:51] actually <15 is supposed to be "never" [16:51] lemme quickly confirm that in the code... [16:51] ok [16:53] reason I asked was because I was trying to set the inactivity time to something low enough for the testcase and only way to do it was with Settings Editor [16:53] and then I saw that it went back to 14 when you put the slider to Never [16:55] ok, so <=14 means never [16:56] setting it lower worked? [16:56] yes [16:56] hm, interesting [16:56] as long as never works as expected, i guess it's ok [16:57] those who fiddle with the settings via xfconf are on their own anyway ;) [16:58] understand. I'll let efly look at the testcase to see if he thinks it's too messy that way. [16:58] habhatti: i meant plymouth-theme-ubuntu-logo (if you wanna try ubuntu), if you wanna install the 14.04 package then grab the older version off packages.ubuntu.com: plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo [16:58] elfy too [16:58] well at least it's a nice workaround for not having to wait 15mins [16:58] right [17:08] bluesabre: just so you know - thunar prefs it at top of my list [17:09] ochosi: thanks, I'll try that out right now [17:13] jjfrv8: re testcases - basically we have to test what we have - so if there's nothing between 15 and never - then just write it to match [17:13] as long YOU'VE no bugs when YOU write it - then that's as much as can be done [17:13]