[11:21] <mpt> Ding, dong, the breadcrumb is dead!
[11:21] <mpt> \o/
[11:21] <davmor2> mpt: man you are evil what the hell did the breadcrumb do to you to deserve to die ;)
[11:22] <mpt> davmor2, it tried to convey a two-dimensional hierarchy in one dimension
[11:22] <wgrant> mpt: Not quite dead, but it only appears very occasionally now. And hopefully totally dead.
[11:22] <wgrant> Also, you're wrong.
[11:22] <wgrant> It was three-dimensional.
[11:22] <mpt> Three-dimensional?
[11:22] <wgrant> Person, product/distro/package, series
[11:23] <mpt> Oh, I didn’t even notice that it was ever included person * the others
[11:23] <wgrant> It mostly tried to avoid it because that was so awkward.
[11:24] <wgrant> But basically I tried to clean up the madness by treating series as more of a filter than a key structural object. Which then means the heading part of the page can include the first 0-3 breadcrumbs, eliminating the in-content breadcrumb hierarchy on most common pages.
[11:25] <wgrant> More suggestions from actual designy people welcome :)
[11:25] <mpt> Almost like good old Launchpad 2.0
[11:25] <wgrant> Well, 2.0 still had the breadcrumbs.
[11:25] <wgrant> It just didn't have a separate header section trying to represent the "primary context"/
[11:25] <mpt> right
[11:25] <wgrant> The breadcrumbs had almost exactly the same problem.
[11:26] <mpt> In 2.0 I included hierarchy up to the most specific point where the facets still applied
[11:26] <wgrant> Oh, I misremembered that it went deeper.
[11:27] <wgrant> The header section now includes everything that has multiple facets, except that we treat series as a filter on a facet rather than having several facets themselves. Which makes navigation less confusing, hopefully.
[11:28] <wgrant> But, more importantly, the facet links now go where the context above them says.
[11:28] <wgrant> Rather than the "Code" link beneath "Ubuntu" actually going to dpkg in Ubuntu Hoary's branches.
[11:29] <mpt> Right, but now you have the opposite problem
[11:30] <wgrant> What's the new problem?
[11:30] <mpt> which is, for example, that on <https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid> “Translations” goes to a page that’s mostly about Utopic
[11:31] <wgrant> Right, switching between facets of a series is no longer directly possible.
[11:31] <wgrant> But it's also not commonly desirable.
[11:31] <mpt> Whereas I would reasonably expect it to go to <https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid>
[11:33] <mpt> (same for Code and Bugs)
[11:33] <wgrant> Sure, that's the one significant downside of this change.
[11:34] <wgrant> I couldn't see any solution that wasn't a tradeoff.
[11:34] <wgrant> And I don't think you could either, given that 2.0 didn't solve it.
[11:36] <mpt> Sure it did. I included series in the hierarchy. When you navigated down to the series, the facets below applied to the series.
[11:36] <wgrant> Right, but that goes awry when source packages get involved.
[11:36] <wgrant> The hierarchy was "Ubuntu > dpkg package" for a DSP, and "Ubuntu > Trusty > dpkg package" for an SP
[11:37] <wgrant> You need to be able to easily switch to the series-less sourcepackage more than you need to be able to switch between facets for the series.
[11:39] <mpt> I don’t see a problem with “Ubuntu > Trusty” and “Ubuntu > dpkg > Trusty” both existing … but maybe Zope does? :-)
[11:39] <wgrant> The internal breadcrumb representation changed to that today.
[11:40] <wgrant> But the facet menu no longer descends into the series.
[11:41] <wgrant> It's rare that one wants to switch between facets without dropping the series, and it's rare that one navigates to a series before selecting a facet.
[11:41] <wgrant> (in part because series mostly tend to confuse the hell out of a lot of users)
[11:45] <wgrant> (also, if you're not coming from 5 years of dealing with 3.0's brokenness, it should be fairly clear that the facet links will take you to Ubuntu's bugs, not Ubuntu Vivid's bugs. A lot of people are just conditioned to them taking you to a totally different place.)
[11:51] <wgrant> Anyway, it's easy enough to readd the series as a layer between the primary context and the facet links, if it actually proves to be a problem. But leaving series as a non-leaf navigation item introduces complications when dealing with objects that aren't series-scoped.
[11:51] <wgrant> Particularly when we're about to introduce a very close non-series-scoped sibling to an object that is currently series-scoped.
[12:01] <mpt> Sure, the consequence of making facets series-specific is that “Answers” becomes greyed out on a series
[12:03] <mpt> but I think that’s relatively minor compared to, for example, most series Translations pages now being orphans (no links to them)
[12:05] <mpt> wgrant, what is this non-series-scoped sibling of which you speak?
[12:06] <wgrant> mpt: Right, the Translations facet of an obsolete series can't currently be navigated to directly.
[14:58] <ScottK> So https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/<release>/+source/<package>/<version> is now just a redirect to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/<version> right?
[18:37] <ScottK> wgrant: So this new design removed every reference to the bug number in the page (as far as I can tell).  I routinely use that to copy/paste into changelogs.  I can do it from the URL, but that seems like not the best process flow to support.
[19:56] <wgrant> ScottK: Ah, so it did, sorry. Will fix.
[19:57] <ScottK> wgrant: Thanks.
[20:00] <wgrant> ScottK: As for the redirect, yes, tgat's been in place for a few weeks. The only unique info on the series page was the .changes link, which I added to the other one.
[20:01] <wgrant> Has that change caused any issues for you? I've heard nothing but positive feedback about it.
[20:01] <ScottK> There's also build status being iconified versus written out.
[20:01] <ScottK> I wouldn't say I've had issues, but I like the other page better.
[20:02] <ScottK> I don't think it's a problem.
[20:02] <ScottK> The bug number vanishing is a different matter.
[20:04] <wgrant> yeah, the build formatting isn't ideal, and was the one other thing i almost brought across. i might still.
[20:05] <wgrant> The bug number thing is something i actually kissed, though.
[20:05] <wgrant> missed
[20:06] <wgrant> thanks for the feedback
[20:24] <ScottK> The icon on the build page isn't a big issue for me since I've been around for long enough to mostly be able to remember them.  Not so great for new people though.
[20:27] <wgrant> Yeah. It probably makes sense to have a textual status and group them.
[20:28] <wgrant> The problem with improving those pages before was that we had two pages which showed a couple of dozen pieces of identical information, plus two that were unique to each view, in a totally different way.
[20:28] <wgrant> With no reason for differentiation.
[20:28] <wgrant> Now we have just a single page to improve.
[20:41] <wgrant> ScottK: Bug #1397422
[20:42] <ScottK> Thanks.