=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === karni is now known as karni-otp === karni-otp is now known as karni [11:21] Ding, dong, the breadcrumb is dead! [11:21] \o/ [11:21] mpt: man you are evil what the hell did the breadcrumb do to you to deserve to die ;) [11:22] davmor2, it tried to convey a two-dimensional hierarchy in one dimension [11:22] mpt: Not quite dead, but it only appears very occasionally now. And hopefully totally dead. [11:22] Also, you're wrong. [11:22] It was three-dimensional. [11:22] Three-dimensional? [11:22] Person, product/distro/package, series [11:23] Oh, I didn’t even notice that it was ever included person * the others [11:23] It mostly tried to avoid it because that was so awkward. [11:24] But basically I tried to clean up the madness by treating series as more of a filter than a key structural object. Which then means the heading part of the page can include the first 0-3 breadcrumbs, eliminating the in-content breadcrumb hierarchy on most common pages. [11:25] More suggestions from actual designy people welcome :) [11:25] Almost like good old Launchpad 2.0 [11:25] Well, 2.0 still had the breadcrumbs. [11:25] It just didn't have a separate header section trying to represent the "primary context"/ [11:25] right [11:25] The breadcrumbs had almost exactly the same problem. [11:26] In 2.0 I included hierarchy up to the most specific point where the facets still applied [11:26] Oh, I misremembered that it went deeper. [11:27] The header section now includes everything that has multiple facets, except that we treat series as a filter on a facet rather than having several facets themselves. Which makes navigation less confusing, hopefully. [11:28] But, more importantly, the facet links now go where the context above them says. [11:28] Rather than the "Code" link beneath "Ubuntu" actually going to dpkg in Ubuntu Hoary's branches. [11:29] Right, but now you have the opposite problem [11:30] What's the new problem? [11:30] which is, for example, that on “Translations” goes to a page that’s mostly about Utopic [11:31] Right, switching between facets of a series is no longer directly possible. [11:31] But it's also not commonly desirable. [11:31] Whereas I would reasonably expect it to go to [11:33] (same for Code and Bugs) [11:33] Sure, that's the one significant downside of this change. [11:34] I couldn't see any solution that wasn't a tradeoff. [11:34] And I don't think you could either, given that 2.0 didn't solve it. [11:36] Sure it did. I included series in the hierarchy. When you navigated down to the series, the facets below applied to the series. [11:36] Right, but that goes awry when source packages get involved. [11:36] The hierarchy was "Ubuntu > dpkg package" for a DSP, and "Ubuntu > Trusty > dpkg package" for an SP [11:37] You need to be able to easily switch to the series-less sourcepackage more than you need to be able to switch between facets for the series. [11:39] I don’t see a problem with “Ubuntu > Trusty” and “Ubuntu > dpkg > Trusty” both existing … but maybe Zope does? :-) [11:39] The internal breadcrumb representation changed to that today. [11:40] But the facet menu no longer descends into the series. [11:41] It's rare that one wants to switch between facets without dropping the series, and it's rare that one navigates to a series before selecting a facet. [11:41] (in part because series mostly tend to confuse the hell out of a lot of users) [11:45] (also, if you're not coming from 5 years of dealing with 3.0's brokenness, it should be fairly clear that the facet links will take you to Ubuntu's bugs, not Ubuntu Vivid's bugs. A lot of people are just conditioned to them taking you to a totally different place.) [11:51] Anyway, it's easy enough to readd the series as a layer between the primary context and the facet links, if it actually proves to be a problem. But leaving series as a non-leaf navigation item introduces complications when dealing with objects that aren't series-scoped. [11:51] Particularly when we're about to introduce a very close non-series-scoped sibling to an object that is currently series-scoped. [12:01] Sure, the consequence of making facets series-specific is that “Answers” becomes greyed out on a series [12:03] but I think that’s relatively minor compared to, for example, most series Translations pages now being orphans (no links to them) [12:05] wgrant, what is this non-series-scoped sibling of which you speak? [12:06] mpt: Right, the Translations facet of an obsolete series can't currently be navigated to directly. === karni is now known as karni-lunch === karni-lunch is now known as karni [14:58] So https://launchpad.net/ubuntu//+source// is now just a redirect to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source// right? [18:37] wgrant: So this new design removed every reference to the bug number in the page (as far as I can tell). I routinely use that to copy/paste into changelogs. I can do it from the URL, but that seems like not the best process flow to support. [19:56] ScottK: Ah, so it did, sorry. Will fix. [19:57] wgrant: Thanks. [20:00] ScottK: As for the redirect, yes, tgat's been in place for a few weeks. The only unique info on the series page was the .changes link, which I added to the other one. [20:01] Has that change caused any issues for you? I've heard nothing but positive feedback about it. [20:01] There's also build status being iconified versus written out. [20:01] I wouldn't say I've had issues, but I like the other page better. [20:02] I don't think it's a problem. [20:02] The bug number vanishing is a different matter. [20:04] yeah, the build formatting isn't ideal, and was the one other thing i almost brought across. i might still. [20:05] The bug number thing is something i actually kissed, though. [20:05] missed [20:06] thanks for the feedback [20:24] The icon on the build page isn't a big issue for me since I've been around for long enough to mostly be able to remember them. Not so great for new people though. [20:27] Yeah. It probably makes sense to have a textual status and group them. [20:28] The problem with improving those pages before was that we had two pages which showed a couple of dozen pieces of identical information, plus two that were unique to each view, in a totally different way. [20:28] With no reason for differentiation. [20:28] Now we have just a single page to improve. [20:41] ScottK: Bug #1397422 [20:42] bug 1397422 in Launchpad itself "bug number is no longer available in the body of a bug report" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397422 [20:42] Thanks.