/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/12/02/#kubuntu-devel.txt

soeegood morning07:17
lordievaderGood morning.08:16
sitterRiddell: do we have a log for the qca build fail in tests you patched out?08:39
Riddellsitter: probably not09:31
sitterRiddell: how do you know it failed then?09:33
sitterand how is one supposed to fix it :S09:34
sitterand why does it not fail in the ci ppa :S09:34
Riddellsitter: remove it then and see what breaks, but file watches are funny things so it may well be occational only09:36
sitterunless we get metrics there is no way this could ever be fixed09:37
Sick_RimmitMorning folks..10:10
soeehi Sick_Rimmit10:12
soeesome can helpsven_123 on #kubuntu ?10:12
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Riddelltsdgeos: where's trunk for oxygen-icons if branch is in http://websvn.kde.org/branches/Applications/14.12/oxygen-icons/ ?11:00
Riddellsomeone in debian has done a weird packaging rule to workaround an icon being in the wrong place11:01
tsdgeoshttp://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdesupport/oxygen-icons/11:01
Riddellthanks11:01
debfxsitter and wrap-and-sort, a long lasting relationship based on pure love ;)11:19
Riddellit's like batman and the joker, they define each other11:22
sitterone day we will wake up and it will be rewritten11:23
sitterjust like launchpadlib11:23
sitterRiddell: y u no copy builddeps for konsole :'<11:24
sitternow ci is red11:24
Riddellsitter: I'll take a look11:26
sitterRiddell: nah, already on it11:26
sitterRiddell: btw,  i think we might want to split the kpart for konsole5 as well11:27
sitterotherwise we might have the same problem come konsole611:27
Riddellwe might11:28
Riddellwould be good if it became a proper library11:28
sitterit is a proper plugin :P11:28
MirvRiddell: did you have any input to the "which Qt for 15.04" question? I had assumed Kubuntu would put pressure on getting 5.4 early, but last week we discussed here that actually you might want to stick with 5.3.2 for 15.04 because of upstream having chosen so? I'm preparing for 5.4 anyhow, seems there will be a lot to fix: http://is.gd/jAUhah11:45
Mirvit's good to have fixes regardless of vivid Qt version, since the fixes will be needed sooner or later11:45
RiddellMirv: alas we are still pretty unsure11:46
MirvRiddell: ok. it doesn't hurt much, as long as there is common understanding before feature freeze.11:47
sitterI think even if it isn't a strict build requirement we'll need to have 5.4 for experience reasons11:47
Riddellupstream Plasma 5.2 releases in January and we're unsure upstream if we want the new version.  it's not a long time after qt 5.4 release (which may slip) but then it has nice new features11:47
sittere.g. there was a bugfix yesterday that only works with changes in 5.411:47
Riddellbut of course kubuntu is in april so it would be a shame to go with the old qt version, but meh11:49
Riddellso I guess what I want is for Plasma 5.2 to support both so weren't not in any rush to update Qt in the archive but it'll still work when we do11:53
Riddellbut that's something the Plasma developers aren't too keen on11:53
Mirvsupporting both would be the best. KDE at least has a sensible amount of private header usage (just two packages), although I don't know how it'd look in practice if one just upgrades to 5.4 without any other changes.11:55
MirvUbuntu has a lot of #if QT_VERSION < QT_VERSION_CHECK(5, 4, 0) style code for 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 nowadays, but also mostly because of more private headers use11:56
Mirvwell, not a huge amount I guess, but some in 5-10 packages11:56
sitterI found that a bit disconcerting11:58
sitterwhat annoys me about kde's private header usage is that apparently upstream doesn't consider it a problem...11:58
sitterand then you have other people from kde argue that their 'private' public libs don't need to be stable because no one is using them anyway11:59
sitterhypocracy at its best11:59
sitterhmm12:12
sitteryofel: shouldn't libkeduvocudocument recommen kdeedu-kvtml-data?12:13
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Riddelltsdgeos: ksnakeduel/ktron/kdesnake seems to have mixed identity with three different names, would it work if I submitted a patch to drop two names and use ksnakeduel?13:04
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BluesKaj_Hiyas all13:23
soeehi BluesKaj_13:23
BluesKaj_hey soee13:24
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sgclarkRiddell: I have been requested to apply https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341483 to our kdev-python packaging and backport, any reason I shouldn't?13:44
ubottuKDE bug 341483 in general "Kdevelop crashes while typing "def a" if certain file is imported" [Crash,Verified: fixed]13:44
Riddellsgclark: ask kdevelop dudes I'd say, apol will be back online when he's finished playing table tennis13:47
Riddellsgclark: did you get hold of him?14:31
Riddellsgclark: or maybe scummos is the best person for kdev-python14:32
sgclarkthink I might wait for release14:43
yofelsitter: IMO not. README.packagers in kdeedu-data lists which packages should depend/recommend kdeedu-kvtml-data15:08
Riddellyofel: I've just packaged parley which build-depends on libkeduvocdocument-dev15:10
Riddellshould it also depend on kdeedu-kvtml-data ?15:10
yofelRiddell: it should recommend it - going from http://paste.ubuntu.com/9345839/15:12
Riddellyofel: why not just have that recommends on libkeduvocudocument ?15:13
yofelthen you'll have to make that a dep if you want to include Kanagram and Khangman.15:14
yofelI guess we could do that... but it's not really semantically correct15:14
sitteralso sounds good enough :P15:15
sitterseems like overly cumbersome and errorprone packaging to have it on an application level rather than a library level, even more so considering kdeedu-data is the only supplier of suitable data assets15:15
yofelif you say so... you might as well just make kdeedu-data depend on it which the libs should already depend on15:18
sitteroh oh15:18
sitterparley needs integration15:18
Riddellintegration?15:18
sitterciing15:18
Riddellsitter: so will lots of things on https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas15:19
sitternot really, we only integrated kf515:25
sitterof which my whiteboard says we are missing: khangman, okteta, parley and kalgebra15:25
sitterall of which because there is no kf5 packaging yet AFAIK15:25
Riddellah I see15:28
Riddellwell yes parley is probably done but I've not uploaded it to ninjas yet to test it there15:28
Riddellsitter: marble as well?15:28
Riddellthe marble devs seem unsure if we should package qt4 or qt5 version15:28
sitterRiddell: I was not aware that is part of 14.1215:29
sitterbut if it is then I guess so15:29
Riddellsitter: marble has always been part of kde sc and is now part of kde applications15:30
Riddellbut the version in applications now has two versions15:30
Riddellmeh, dput not working :(15:58
Riddellwgrant:  ftp ppa.launchpad.net  broken?16:01
Riddellwgrant: yay, fixed16:14
=== Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok
Riddellyofel, sgclark: uploaded all the rest to kubuntu-ninjas, just whatever tidying up left then we can upload to vivid16:26
Riddelllet me know if you can see what tidying up there is to be done16:26
Riddellvarious build failures, I'm looking at kdepim-dev rdepends now16:27
sgclarkwell looks good in regards to the tidying, but the changelogs seem void of said changes, wasn't this a big thing debian wanted?16:31
sgclarkRiddell: ^16:31
Riddellsgclark: shouldn't be, got an example?16:31
sgclarkany of my changelogs have all the changes in the entry16:31
RiddellI missing out lots of "merge with debian, no changes" lines right enough16:31
sgclarkwas an easy copy paste16:31
sgclarkand the changes to maintainer/vsc/watch should be noted, no?16:32
Riddellmaybe, we don't note ubuntu changes to the maintainer in changelogs (an ubuntu rule) but I guess this is a debian change to maintainer16:33
Riddelland by maybe, I mean "yes" :)16:33
sgclarkRiddell: also since it was a merge I did not muck about much with breaks/replaces, but "applications" will be the only kde in vivid right? aka not kde sc, so the breaks/replaces froom old packages could go?16:36
sgclarkwould be a nice cleanup16:36
sgclarknext release16:36
Riddellsgclark: they should stay generally, the source and resulting binary packages are mostly the same16:37
sgclarkso we are also bring kde-sc to vivid? most of the breaks/replaces are from that era of binaries. meh was just a thought.16:40
Riddellno kde applications replaces kde-sc but they're 90% the same thing16:41
sgclarkright, this was a version thing, but discard everything I said.  16:45
yofelRiddell: the ubuntu Vcs entries should be dropped16:48
Riddellyofel: where do you see them?16:49
yofelparley16:49
sgclarkyeah, ones I looked at were dropped16:49
sgclarkgood catch16:49
yofeland changing the URLs for watch and Vcs should be noted in the changelog16:49
sgclarkyeah I mentioned that :)16:50
yofeland are we really going to go with this?16:50
yofelMaintainer: Debian/Kubuntu/Ubuntu Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>16:50
yofelX-Ubuntu-Maintainer: Kubuntu Developers <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>16:50
Riddellfixed16:50
RiddellI'll go over all the patches to check the Vcs, Maintainer, watch, changelog entries16:51
sgclarkthat does not look right16:52
Riddellwhat doesn't?16:52
yofelthe maintainer16:52
RiddellMaintainer: Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>16:52
Riddellis what we agreed with debian to use16:52
sgclarkthat looks right16:52
yofelRiddell: right, look at parley16:52
RiddellI just pushed a fix16:53
yofeloh16:53
yofelright, fixed :)16:53
* BluesKaj_ wonders when virtual desktops will get the option to use different wallpapers for each16:54
sgclarkBluesKaj_: I found that functionality when I switched Desktop to Folder in the top option16:57
BluesKaj_sgclark, thanks , I'll check that out16:59
Riddellout for the day, will hopefully we can get applications uploaded to vivid tomorrow17:05
BluesKaj_sgclark, afraid not, still get the same wallpaper for all desktops with folder settings17:06
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murthyAnyone interested in reproducing this bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/138984719:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1389847 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity waits until the driver-manager finishes before proceeding to the partitioning screen" [Undecided,New]19:21
soeehiho19:58
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=== greyback_ is now known as greyback
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soeevalorie: ping21:08
valoriehi soee21:26
soeevalorie: do you remember nick of a person who is workign on new kubnut.org website ?21:36
yofelsoee: looking for bukai?21:38
valorieyes, that was bukai21:39
soeeyes, thank you :)21:39
valoriesorry, keyboard stopped working, and restarting plasma didn't fix, so I restarted21:39
soee:D21:39
valorieI've not encountered that before.....21:39
soeebtw on the page im working @homepage there will be graphilac navigation and text nav on subpages: http://kubuntu.dev.soee.pl/21:40
valoriedang it, I lost my scrollback on this chan21:42
valoriegrrrr21:42
soeewoot ?21:43
valoriewhen I restarted21:44
valorieI have it in the logs21:44
valoriebtw sitter, re our discussion yesterday, since the restart today, no more xdgdir errors23:01
valorieknock on wood23:01
valorieah, Sick_Rimmit, you missed that23:02
valoriebtw sitter, re our discussion yesterday, since the restart today, no more xdgdir errors23:02
Sick_RimmitI missed something ?23:02
valoriehad to restart the laptop for other reasons, but that seems fixed now23:02
valoriethe statement above23:03
Sick_Rimmitxdgdir errors ?23:03
valorieweren't you getting those too?23:03
valorieplasma freezing, then restarting it, then those errors?23:04
Sick_RimmitAh I think I see that23:04
* Sick_Rimmit reviews IRC logs23:04
valorieI know I wasn't alone; there were many many commenters on the bug report23:05
Sick_RimmitYes.. lordievader suggested I use Alt+Tab and this works on most occassions. Today I had a freeze free day, and I've been hammering my work laptop..23:06
Sick_RimmitBut, so far I haven't really found any pointers as to what is happening, or why23:07
Sick_RimmitI'm trying to get back on top of my schedule so I can do some more packaging with sgclark23:07
sgclarkhiyas23:08
Sick_RimmitI think, I might be able to get on to some of that next week23:08
sgclarkno worries, my SoK project has taken over much of my time :(23:08
valorieI lost my scrollback, so I couldn't see the CI meeting, sgclark -- how did it go?23:08
Sick_Rimmitsgclark: Hi Scarlet23:08
sgclarkvalorie: great23:08
valorieexcellent23:08
valorieI'm happy to see so much interest in quality23:09
sgclarkyes23:09
Sick_RimmitI'd like to kn ow more about your SoK sgclark, got any links ? 23:10
sgclarkscarlettgatelyclark.com has my first post, another one will come so9on when I get Windows build to work...23:11
sgclarks/so9on/soon/23:11
kubotusgclark meant: "scarlettgatelyclark.com has my first post, another one will come soon when I get Windows build to work..."23:11
sgclarkjust as I thought I was rid of Windows! heh23:11
Sick_Rimmitsgclark: Very exciting work you're doing with Jenkins and the CI stack, when does you SoK term end ?23:37
sgclarkhmm good question23:37
valorieit ends Jan 3123:37
sgclarkty23:38
valoriewe had lots of complaints about lack of feedback from the students and too much fuzziness on the completion time23:38
Sick_RimmitOoo well it's looking good23:38
valorieso I set it up with monthly blogs required and a firm end date23:39
ScottKNo fuzziness here though.  Not while valorie is supervising ....23:39
valoriefuzzy beginning instead23:39
valorieScottK: lol23:39
sgclarklol23:39
valoriedeadlines can be productive23:39
sgclarkI am making good progress with mine23:39
valoriereally, I think this is one of Ubuntu's strengths23:40
valoriethere is a calendar with freezes, and releases23:40
valoriethe lack of that with Debian has held it back, IMO23:40
Sick_RimmitYes, I agree Ubuntu Sprints set a focus and goal.23:41
sgclarklooking at the ML debian is falling apart at the seams. I am sure it isn't just appears that way 23:41
Sick_RimmitWe use this in our own dev team, I sight Kubuntu to those guys, and I keep bigging up TDD, and Jenkins CI too 23:42
valorienot enough focus on the community IMO23:42
keithzgIf Debian falls apart, though, *buntu falls apart . . . but yeah, the voices that have the most greivances are the loudest, so whenever there's drama the MLs of a project like Debian will give the impression of the apocalypse.23:42
Sick_RimmitI have a SysAdmin at our place, whose been talking to me about this, he pointed me to devuan.org earlier today23:43
sgclarkyeah23:43
sgclarkahh yeah the sysinit spin23:44
sgclarkor fork rather23:44
Sick_RimmitI think this is not good.. We need to unite more, not separate and divide23:44
Sick_RimmitI'd prefer to see debian offer a sysinit version, perhaps like the KFreeBSD spin they were doing23:45
sgclarkwell, the fight between init and systemd has been going on a long time, and Debian being universal I am not entirely surprised it had the biggest explosion there23:45
Sick_RimmitI posted a note on this to my G+ stream earlier, and it was an instant flame up23:46
sgclarkyeah I stay out of those these days lol23:46
sgclarkI don't have the "thick skin" pre-req23:46
Sick_RimmitI'm just not knowledgable enough about either to make a valuable contribution to that debate23:47
sgclarkthat too23:47
Sick_RimmitBut I do think that it's a mistake to depart from Unix Coding Zen..23:47
valorieit is too easy to divide, and rather more difficult to put our heads together and make a solution which everyone can sign off on23:47
valoriein the case of systemd, those devels aren't at the table for the discussion23:48
valorieso it becomes "take it or leave it"23:48
valorieneither being the best option, perhaps23:48
Sick_RimmitI said that to my chap today, I said listen "It's critical if you feel that way, that you get involved, but in a positive way"23:48
valoriewould have been good for the debian devels to have engaged with them long ago23:49
sgclarkyeah23:49
valoriewhen systemd was still forming up23:49
valorietoo late for that now23:49
sgclarkbut it sounds like they never had any intention to accep[t it23:49
valorieSick_Rimmit: yes, it is a bit of a borg cube to swallow23:50
valorielots of edges that cut23:50
valoriesome did want it, some never would23:50
valorieI hate to see a split that big in debian23:50
valorieof course some saw Ubuntu as a big split like that23:51
valoriesooooo......23:51
Sick_RimmitIt's hard to see debian fork being succesful..23:51
sgclarktrue23:51
Sick_RimmitWith that being the exception,23:51
Sick_Rimmitbut of course a heavily funded exception23:51
Sick_RimmitHowever, all we can do it try to keep contributing in a positive way23:52
sgclarkyes, I have not seen any craziness on the debian/kde side which is what we deal with23:53
sgclarkso we are good in that sense23:54
Sick_RimmitWell like you sgclark I think I found a home here in Kubuntu, had to put up with alot of RTFM Bigots along the way to find you folks though23:55
valoriewe don't see ourselves as a fork, though23:55
valorierather as a derivative23:55
sgclarkSick_Rimmit: lol yeah23:55
sgclarkrough road getting here, but I am home safe and sound23:55
valorieI don't think mark ever saw Ubuntu as a fork either23:55
* Sick_Rimmit grins23:56
sgclarkright, I agree more of a derivative, I see that with the merges we do23:56
Sick_RimmitWell friends, I'm done in, time for bed for me.. I'll catch you folks tomorrow, thanks for chatting23:58
valorieniters Sick_Rimmit23:59
valoriesweet dreams23:59
sgclarknight!23:59
Sick_Rimmitttfn23:59
* Sick_Rimmit Out23:59

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