[04:40] <ScottK> sgclark: Debian is starting to calm down.  They'll get through it.
[04:41] <ScottK> Someone tell Sick_Rimmit when he comes back that sysvinit is perfectly usable in Debian and it will be for the Jessie release.  All the hype to the contrary is just FUD.
[04:43] <sgclark> yeah I figured
[04:44] <ScottK> valorie: From day one, Ubuntu has always viewed itself as a Debian derivative.  Even when it was just called No Name Yet, there were already patches to Debian packages posted on what became the Ubuntu web site for Debian maintainers to pick up.
[04:44] <ScottK> That's not to say you'll be able to use sysvinit for Stretch, but that's a long ways off.
[05:24] <valorie> I always feel good when ScottK agrees with me
[05:24] <valorie> :-)
[07:29] <soee> good morning
[08:15] <sitter> valorie: sweet
[08:16] <valorie> I'll take it, but .... what is sweet?
[08:18] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:19] <soee> indeed good, good morning :)
[08:21] <lordievader> Hey soee, how are you?
[08:22] <soee> lordievader: fine and the weather si nice so can't complain :) you ?
[08:23] <lordievader> soee: Doing ok here :)
[08:26] <soee> Firefox 34 released :)
[08:32] <sitter> valorie: no errors
[08:35] <valorie> yes, 'tis sweet indeed
[08:35] <valorie> now, why doesn't this old hard drive get seen by my computer?
[08:36] <valorie> it spins, but never mounts, and Bob's winbox doesn't see it either
[08:36] <valorie> I'm beginning to think it's a zombie
[09:11] <Riddell> hola chicos
[09:32] <Sick_Rimmit> hola
[10:41] <Riddell> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ninjas-status/build_status_14.11.97_vivid.html  applications status, now with added version numbers
[10:43] <Riddell> sgclark: you have ksaneplugin marked wip, what's the status of that?
[10:57] <sitter> usr/bin/oxygen-settings5
[10:57] <sitter> why ever is that in the kwin-decoration package Oo
[11:09] <sitter> yofel: did you poke someone about kdeedu copyright situation already?
[11:30] <mitya57> Mirv: hi, do you think it'll be possible to have https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtbase/commit/f1ee10f81ac18789.patch in our 5.3 packages?
[11:31] <mitya57> I saw someone else was asking about it already here, but now it's time for myself to want it.
[11:32] <mitya57> If you don't have anything against that, I will test & commit it.
[11:40] <Mirv> mitya57: feel free, I just finished my previous qtbase landing and have nothing pending there. now I'm looking at landing a couple of qtdeclarative patches.
[11:40] <mitya57> ok, thanks
[11:42] <Riddell> now lists missing packages at the bottom http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ninjas-status/build_status_14.11.97_vivid.html
[11:55] <Riddell> kgit added to lp:kubuntu-dev-tools for quick cloning and checkout 
[11:55] <Riddell> well quick-ish, you still have to know what directory it's in
[11:57] <sitter> what's the point of kgit?
[11:58] <Riddell> I keep doing a clone then forgetting to branch
[11:58] <Riddell> I keep doing a clone then forgetting to checkout
[12:03] <sitter> Riddell: so you collapsed two commands into one? :P
[12:06] <Riddell> three, there's a cd as well
[12:10] <sitter> oh
[12:10] <sitter> ohhhhhhh
[12:10] <sitter> Riddell: no no, that's just wrong :P
[12:10] <sitter> Riddell: git clone debian:foo -b kubuntu_vivid_archive
[12:10] <sitter> exactly what your script does
[12:11] <Riddell> ok nice, but still too much typing
[12:11] <Riddell> why is it wrong?
[12:11] <sitter> write an alias :P
[12:11] <Riddell> said the person who wrote kbzr in the first place?
[12:11] <sitter> Riddell: because in kbzr you cannot have arbitrary prefixes
[12:12] <sitter> s/kbzr/bzr/
[12:12] <kubotu> sitter meant: "Riddell: because in bzr you cannot have arbitrary prefixes"
[12:13] <Riddell> sitter: so what sort of alias do you have?
[12:16] <sitter> Riddell: I don't have one, I am being explicit with instructions
[12:17] <Riddell> hi DrSkyLizard 
[12:19] <DrSkyLizard> hi
[12:19] <sitter> Riddell: your script now has a proper chdir
[12:20] <sitter> Riddell: feature suggestion ... if checkout fails create the branch?
[12:22] <Riddell> that would be good
[12:31] <Riddell> but alas I don't know ruby :)
[12:32] <yofel> sitter: license file is there now - but I don't think there's a note who holds the copyright
[12:32] <sitter> Riddell: ohoh here's yoru chance to learn? :P
[12:32] <yofel> (kdeedu)
[12:34] <sitter> yofel: yeah, the license/copyright situation of that tar is completely unknown
[12:34] <sitter> it has a license copy of every license ever and no additional information to offer
[12:34] <yofel> you'll want to talk to jpwhiting, he added them
[12:35] <Riddell> what's the licence issue?
[12:36] <Riddell> yofel: git-buildpackage-ppa doesn't work for me since I bzr updated with your changes https://paste.kde.org/pgzwhsqyd
[12:36] <sitter> there is no information
[12:36] <sitter> Riddell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/200
[12:36] <yofel> Riddell: what's the error?
[12:37] <yofel> er, nvm
[12:37] <sitter> uscan as broken as ever
[12:37] <yofel> Riddell: try again
[12:38] <yofel> sometimes it has a one-time failure if there was some issue, then it leaves the tmp folder in ../build-area and fails before cleanup
[12:39] <sitter> the coolest thing about ppa management is how when you want to delete a source you need to go to the package overview page, to get there you have to find it amongst a list of links of which one is delete PPA and uses the same icon as delete packages would on the relevant page
[12:39] <sitter> not paying attentoin and boom, ppa gone ^^
[12:45] <Riddell> yofel: nope same issue
[12:46] <yofel> okaaay...
[12:48] <yofel> Riddell: can you wipe you ../build-area folder and try again? Works fine for me...
[12:48] <yofel> *your
[12:53] <yofel> oh
[12:53] <yofel> I see what happened. If build-area is missing you need 3 tries until it succeeds
[12:54] <yofel> first try fails because uscan errors out on missing build-area, second fails because gbp didn't properly clean up after the first failure
[12:57] <yofel> Riddell: ^
[12:57] <Riddell> hah, third time lucky :)
[13:05] <sitter> mkdyr to the rescue
[13:24] <shadeslayer> sitter: did you nuke a ppa
[13:24] <yofel> he did sound like he did earlier ^^
[13:24] <shadeslayer> that
[13:25] <shadeslayer> that's why I'm asking
[13:26] <sitter> almost
[13:26] <sitter> I did nuke some neon ppa at some point though
[13:27] <sitter> nowadays I don't meddle with deletes before the second coffee of the day
[13:27] <sitter> etoodangerous ^^
[13:41] <sgclark> morning
[13:42] <soee> morning sgclark but the sun is goind down here :)
[13:42] <BluesKaj_> 'Morning folks
[13:43] <soee> hi BluesKaj_
[13:43] <Sick_Rimmit> Good morning BluesKaj_ and sgclark
[13:43] <BluesKaj_> hey soee, Sick_Rimmit
[13:43] <Riddell> soee: it's circular, if it does down for you it goes up for sgclark :)
[13:43] <soee> :D
[13:43] <Sick_Rimmit> Input Method Configuration
[13:44] <Sick_Rimmit> We got this new I-Bus thing in 14.04 I think it was
[13:44] <soee> so she is stealing it from me :)
[13:44] <Sick_Rimmit> I had some trouble with it not passing input to Chromium
[13:44] <sgclark> lol
[13:44] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: hey have I pointed you to this for fosdem? https://community.kde.org/Promo/Events/FOSDEM/2015  we need to know people and what useful stuff they can bring and what they can help out with
[13:44] <sgclark> not up here yet
[13:44] <Sick_Rimmit> Today I noticed earlier these freezes happening, which Alt+Tab seems to give me back the focus
[13:45]  * Sick_Rimmit will look at that in a minute
[13:45] <Sick_Rimmit> I know nothing about I-Bus, but on Plasma 5 it says it's not configured. I am just wondering if it might be the source of these odd lockups.
[13:45] <Sick_Rimmit> But I have no idea where to start looking
[13:46] <sgclark> Riddell: sorry ksanplugin was done, forgot to update pad
[13:46] <sgclark> also updated all mine to 97 last night
[13:47] <Riddell> sgclark: oh cool
[13:47] <Riddell> lovely thanks
[13:47] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: input methods have always been problematic, nobody understands them or how to use them
[13:47] <Riddell> and I can confirm the issue with chromium not liking it
[13:48] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: Ah thats cool, I don;t feel bad anymore
[13:48] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: did you get anywhere with gdb?
[13:48] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: Nothing, nada 
[13:49] <Sick_Rimmit> Interestingly, since utilising Alt+Tab I think I've only lost the system once to a reboot
[13:49] <Sick_Rimmit> Which is much more promising
[13:49] <ScottK> Sick_Rimmit: re last night's conversation, sysvinit works fine on Debian Jessie and will do so when it releases, so all the whining about systemd is either FUD, confusion, or being upset about logind, not systemd as an init system.
[13:50] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: You also mentioned speaking at FOSDEM, did you want me to do that too ?
[13:51] <Sick_Rimmit> ScottK: Indeed, I took a look at the Wiki pages lined from devuan.org and saw there is a short script that will enable SystemD sysint to be swithed our
[13:51] <Sick_Rimmit> s/our/out/
[13:51] <kubotu> Sick_Rimmit meant: "ScottK: Indeed, I took a look at the Wiki pages lined from devuan.org and saw there is a short script that will enable SystemD sysint to be swithed out"
[13:51] <ScottK> That and people get the words "default" and "required" confused.
[13:52] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: would be cool if you had something to talk about https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2014-October/002057.html
[13:53] <ScottK> My favorite is when I point out that systemd isnt' required as an init system, the response is "it was, but due to all the complaining, they just changed it".
[13:55]  * mamarley doesn't understand why people seem to like sysvinit so much. It is much more difficult to write sysvinit scripts than it is to write systemd or upstart scripts, and sysvinit scripts can't restart processes when they crash.
[13:56] <yofel> debuggability, and yes, being able to grep through system logs is somewhat nice
[13:56] <yofel> OTOH, systemd has its sweet points
[13:57] <mamarley> I completely agree about the logging.  Binary log files just seem like a bad idea.
[13:57] <mamarley> I was talking about just init systems.  All of my complaints about systemd have to do with things other than init.
[13:58] <yofel> true
[13:58] <sgclark> yeah the only bit that I miss is the log
[13:58] <mamarley> I read somewhere that you can still have it write regular log files though.
[13:58] <sgclark> oooh
[13:58] <sgclark> that would be nice
[14:02] <yofel> the binary log format does make sense from a common log write/read interface POV. And I think there was a way to make journald generate a text dump of the log
[14:02] <mamarley> The main problem I see with the binary log is accessing it if the system won't boot (for example, if you are trying to access it from a liveUFD or something.)
[14:03] <yofel> someone will make a log reader for that...
[14:04] <sgclark> yeah and that is a point when you most need your logs lol
[14:06] <sitter> a server admin would probably find other more expectable use cases than system-doesnt-boot :P
[14:06] <mamarley> Yeah, there are plenty of other cases.  That was just the first one to come to mind, since it has happened to me before.
[14:06] <ScottK> By default (at least in Debian) the systemd log thing relays on to syslog.
[14:07] <mamarley> ScottK: Will *buntu do the same?
[14:07] <ScottK> Presumably, but I don't know.
[14:07] <mamarley> Thanks.  I hope so.
[14:07] <ScottK> We don't (as a rule) diverge from Debian in the core platform without a reason.
[14:48] <Riddell> waa my hard disk keeps filling up with .xsession-errors cos of https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336592
[14:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: same here
[14:49] <shadeslayer> I just don't run plasma anymore xD
[14:50] <sgclark> not here, but it has been a few since I have upgraded
[14:51] <sgclark> and it sounds like I want to continue with my current build lol
[14:52] <shadeslayer> it's a XCB issue
[14:52] <shadeslayer> so pretty sure it has nothing to do with plasma
[14:52] <soee> kubuntu logo requires black text and blue/white logo or all can be for example white ?
[15:03] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[15:03] <_Groo_> konsole5 is broken again (consequently breaking yakuake)... konsole5_14.11.97+git20141203.1243+14.10-0ubuntu0
[15:04] <_Groo_> the redirections in konsole5 are conflicting with konsole
[15:04] <_Groo_> just an example
[15:04] <_Groo_> dpkg: warning: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/applications/org.kde.konsole.desktop', which is also in package konsole 4:14.11.97+git20141202.1208+14.10-0ubuntu0
[15:05] <_Groo_> nm plasma is broken too, missing a component
[15:07] <_Groo_> btw, nm plasma was fixed today, its just konsole that is broken still
[15:13] <Riddell> woo, today's live cd running good, installing now, wish me luck
[15:13] <Riddell> shadeslayer: hmm this feels like something we should SRU then
[15:14] <Riddell> _Groo_: remove konsole then, I'll look at that in a bit
[15:15] <_Groo_> Riddell: konsole is a hard dependency of yakuake
[15:15] <Riddell> ah then yakuake probably needs that changes to depend on the konsole-kpart one
[15:15]  * Riddell notes
[15:16] <_Groo_> Riddell: yes it does, the original redirections were made because when konsole was split into kpart, yakuake stopped working
[15:16] <_Groo_> that is the case now, 
[15:16] <_Groo_> konsole itself works
[15:17] <_Groo_> but yakuake gives that sad sad face without the terminal, just a blank window :(
[15:17] <Riddell> sitter: how's qca getting on?
[15:19] <sitter> Riddell: pending reviewery
[15:21] <sitter> Riddell: also about the kpart, I think it'd be best to look at all rdeps of konsole and check whether they need the kpart
[15:22] <sitter> off the top of my head kdevplatform/kdevelop, yakuake, dolphin, kile (not sure), kursader, konqueror (not sure)
[15:22] <Riddell> yep
[15:23] <Riddell> sitter: reviewery by whom?
[15:23] <sitter> Riddell: upstream
[15:23] <Riddell> ah, we may be waiting some time
[15:23] <sitter> nah, he commented
[15:23] <Riddell> right, lack of comments is not usually the problem with that upstream, constructive ones is
[15:24] <Riddell> vivid installed!
[15:24] <sitter> I am getting opposition to some parts of the changes already, they are not strictly needed for our purposes though so I have some arguments I can loose ^^
[15:25] <sitter> Riddell: I'll need to do a fork anyway unless his refusal to soname-change qt5 , I would however prefer the fork to only have a delta of one line ideally
[15:25] <sitter> hence the upstreamery
[15:26] <Riddell> I don't think it needs a fork.  a branch is sufficient :)
[15:29] <sitter> it was argued that a branch could be deleted by ivan, at any rate there isn't any difference between a branch and a separate repo
[15:37] <Riddell> man pages aren't installed :(
[15:37] <Riddell> nothing is settings MAN_INSTALL_DIR
[15:41] <Riddell> ah ecm does
[15:41] <Riddell> but only if you use ecm
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: i can confirm taht krusader is also broken
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: and yes, it used konsole kpart
[15:42] <Riddell> what is krusader anyway?
[15:42] <Riddell> the file manager thing?
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: just installed and tested
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: yeah, an awesome full graphical mc clone
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: kde style :D
[15:49] <Riddell> sitter: latest conversion to KF5 is the ever important... kde-dev-scripts!
[16:52] <Riddell> E: oxygen-icon-theme: description-is-pkg-name Oxygen icon theme
[16:52] <Riddell> hmm, is that a problem?
[16:53]  * Riddell ignores
[16:53]  * mitya57 would just prepend "The "
[16:53] <Riddell> then you get a description-starts-with-article warning :)
[16:54] <sgclark> Icon theme for Oxygen?
[16:55] <mitya57>  /o\
[17:19] <Riddell> meh, end of day and still lots to do on kde applications
[17:22] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: I'm going to check my diary on FOSDEM, I won't look to talk there, but I would very much like to come and help out with KDE and Kubuntu etc...
[17:22] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: great, sign up to the stall
[17:22] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: I think those dates are fine, just need final check with Alison
[17:22] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: and if you can bring hardware to demo, put what you are bringing on the wiki page
[17:25] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: would you come by car or public transport?
[17:26]  * Riddell out
[17:26] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: Oh public transport, Train I think