[00:49] <bluesabre> hey all, fun bug(s) there
[00:50] <Unit193> Howdy.
[00:50] <ochosi> in case you're referring to the xdg-screensaver one, then yes
[00:50] <ochosi> "fun" times
[00:51] <ochosi> but at least now we know what is messing with the blank-time
[00:51] <bluesabre> :)
[01:00] <Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure if you saw, but I pulled the patch for datetime to deactivate when it loses focus, no idea if you want that uploaded.
[01:02] <ochosi> Unit193: there's another patch in datetime-master btw
[01:02] <Unit193> ochosi: Looking at it as we speak even.  You may have accidentally a word.
[01:02] <Unit193> Or, -ly.
[01:08] <brainwash> ochosi: do you like the whisker search page idea? dynamically adding something like " - Settings" to entries from the settings category
[01:08] <brainwash> if no, then I won't bother requesting it
[01:11] <brainwash> the user searches for "Filemana" and whisker menu returns "File Manager" + "File Manager - Settings"
[01:11] <ochosi> yeah, actually i think it'd be better to just show descriptions in that case
[01:12] <ochosi> or decide to not show thunar-settings at all
[01:13] <brainwash> yeah, showing the description is another solution
[01:13] <ochosi> showing the category is just rarely useful
[01:14] <brainwash> only in the search page
[01:14] <brainwash> the settings category is special :)
[01:17] <brainwash> I'm thinking about making it subtle, like using italic font for the added " - Settings" part
[01:17] <brainwash> or grey color
[01:18] <brainwash> mmh, it somehow feels like this should be very easy to implement
[01:20] <brainwash> bluesabre: you do have a multi monitor setup, or?
[01:47] <brainwash> bluesabre: starting with 14.10 we received some reports which describe this crash https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11350
[01:48] <brainwash> these bug reporters unplug the external screen which triggers a crash of xfsettingsd
[01:48] <brainwash> a common use case I'd think
[02:57] <bluesabre> brainwash: yes, I've seen that, and have a proposed fix here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11107#c7
[02:57] <bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and commit that fix, then figure out why it doesn't actually fix the bug its linked to
[02:58] <bluesabre> brainwash: at home I have a single monitor setup, dual at work (running trusty there)
[02:59] <bluesabre> Unit193: haven't had a chance to look at that yet, but if you have the fix, I'll upload it
[02:59] <bluesabre> :)
[03:00] <Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-datetime-plugin_0.6.2-2ubuntu2.dsc fixes it so it's like the clock plugin, I only pulled the patch from bugzilla, which was later committed.  There's another commit that makes it work better with the new hiding option too, if you/we care?
[03:03] <bluesabre> actually, since we don't ship that one anymore, its not in the packageset
[03:04] <bluesabre> maybe we can convince logan to upload it :)
[03:04] <bluesabre> I really need to request an xfce packageset
[03:06] <bluesabre> I'll try to get the paperwork together for that this weekend, I think its an obvious thing for us to have
[03:09] <Unit193> Ah, then no worries.  Having you in the Xubuntu packageset has been extreamly helpful, keep it up!
[03:10] <bluesabre> :)
[03:11] <Unit193> And yes, Xfce makes sense, unless you just go for MOTU.
[03:11] <bluesabre> we can cheat.... add it to the xubuntu-desktop recommends, wait til it hits packageset, upload it ;)
[03:11] <Unit193> Or suggests? :P
[03:11] <bluesabre> yeah, or that :P
[03:12] <Unit193> We have the clock plugin, which is nearly functionally the same.
[03:12] <bluesabre> I plan to apply for MOTU this cycle, once life settles down a bit and I am done moving
[03:12] <Unit193> Whichever gets the gsimplecal like feature (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10202) is the one I'm going to vote for. :P
[03:12] <Unit193> Awesome!\
[03:13] <bluesabre> but I want to get the packageset going if possible, so we can just add more of you guys as you step up to bat :)
[03:14] <Unit193> I stepped up, now I send lots more uploads to you! :----D
[03:14] <Unit193> ..And keep sending off others to Debian.
[03:15] <bluesabre> :D
[03:15] <bluesabre> I'm happy to sponsor what I can
[03:15] <Unit193> And I still try to make it easy.  How was the application process anyway?
[03:16] <bluesabre> for packageset?
[03:17] <bluesabre> pretty painless reall
[03:17] <bluesabre> y
[03:17] <Unit193> Sounds like the worst of it is updating the wiki and the meeting.  Finding sigs isn't fun, but not too hard one would hope.
[03:18] <bluesabre> yeah, lots of writing and bugging folks like dholbach
[03:18] <bluesabre> and Logan_
[03:18] <bluesabre> :D
[03:19] <bluesabre> looks like those two were my endorsements, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/DeveloperApplication
[03:20] <Unit193> I may be able to trick Lo gan into it, but not so sure about anyone else.
[03:20] <bluesabre> I'll endorse, not sure if that carries any weight :)
[03:20] <bluesabre> give me more things to upload :D
[03:21] <Unit193> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Unit+193&sponsoree_search=name  I sure will!
[03:21] <bluesabre> but for now, going to go slack off... be back in the morning :)
[03:21] <bluesabre> nice!
[03:22] <Unit193> Have fun!
[03:26] <Logan_> Unit193: who is Lo gan
[03:27] <Unit193> 'lo again!
[03:28] <Logan_> :P
[03:28] <Unit193> Logan_: Got the thing I pinged you about in Debian, but experimental so had to requestsync it. :P
[03:29] <Logan_> jog my memory
[03:29] <Logan_> this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcalcli/+bug/1399800
[03:29] <Unit193> gcalcli's api change
[03:29] <Unit193> Err, Google's API change, right.  That.
[03:30] <Logan_> one sec
[03:30] <Unit193> Yey!  Danke.
[03:35] <Logan_> Unit193: synced
[03:35] <Unit193> Danke.
[03:36] <Logan_> bitte
[03:46] <Unit193> And as that's the only simple one, that's enough for tonight. \o/
[11:50] <brainwash> ali1234: you wanted to add a comment to bug 1087242 (that's the reason why I've subscribed you)
[11:50] <brainwash> about fullscreen windows which are actually windowed, or something like that
[11:51] <ali1234> ah... i actually learned a bit more about that the other day
[11:51] <ali1234> xfwm only unredirects override redirect fullscreen windows for some reason
[11:52] <ali1234> most fullscreen windows aren't override redirect, this puts them above all other windows
[11:52] <brainwash> the app has to set this property?
[11:52] <ali1234> yes
[11:53] <ali1234> technically any app can set override redirect on any window, because X11
[11:53] <brainwash> oh..
[11:53] <ali1234> but norally the app does it
[11:53] <ali1234> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/window/attributes/override-redirect.html
[11:53] <brainwash> maybe add an option to always do this regardless of what the app wants?
[11:54] <ali1234> would probably be better to just make xfwm unredirect windows even if they aren't override redirect
[11:54] <ali1234> this will cause stacking bugs though
[11:55] <ali1234> unredirect is a bit of a hack unfortunately, and xfwm alread has many hacks...
[11:57] <brainwash> and it requires even more hacks
[12:49] <ochosi> !team | sorry about the meeting-time mixup, but i can't make it at 18UTC as scheduled. details sent to ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-December/010495.html
[12:49] <ochosi> hmpf, well that didn't work
[12:50] <knome> ubottu, ping
[12:52] <ochosi> Unit193: ping
[12:54] <ochosi> !factoid
[12:54] <ochosi> ok, let's try this again...
[12:54] <ochosi> !team | sorry about the meeting-time mixup, but i can't make it at 18UTC as scheduled. details sent to ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-December/010495.html
[12:54] <ochosi> grr, ubottu you suck!
[12:55] <ochosi> !team
[12:55] <ochosi> read above...
[12:55] <ali1234> i don't think pipe works that way
[12:56] <knome> ali1234, it does.
[13:26] <brainwash> Unit193: are you familiar with xfce4-terminal.wrapper which is included in the debian/ubuntu package?
[13:27] <brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-terminal/vivid/view/head:/debian/xfce4-terminal.wrapper
[13:27] <brainwash> it appears to be incomplete
[13:30] <brainwash> I'll file a debian report
[16:29]  * ochosi waves hello from vivid
[16:30]  * ochosi heads over to the tracker...
[16:34]  * elfy bets you only saw the black screen bug in the livesession
[16:37] <ochosi> elfy: wrong bet, i didn't see that at all because i was hit by that COM32R bug
[16:37] <ochosi> other than that, it's all good
[16:38] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[16:39] <ochosi> elfy: while we're both around...
[16:39] <ochosi> there are some features that have been recently implemented in xfce and some that i'm considering to push, but they all need some testing
[16:40] <elfy> ok
[16:40] <ochosi> the one thing is intelligent hiding of the panel
[16:40] <elfy> yep - saw some chat about that 
[16:40] <ochosi> i've fixed it up myself recently and i've also used it, but i think it needs more people using it to discover potential points of failure
[16:41] <ochosi> would you be willing to test that out and to forward it to others who are testing?
[16:41] <elfy> right - makes sense - availablity? 
[16:41] <ochosi> (we'd make sure there's a PPA ofc)
[16:41] <ochosi> if testing goes well, i'd talk to andrzejr to get a dev-release so we can roll it into 15.04
[16:42] <elfy> okey doke - do that and I'll surely add it here - once it's available on ppa we can call on the m/l and testers lp contact too
[16:43] <ochosi> cool, thanks!
[16:44] <ochosi> just to be sure, is the concept of "intelligent hiding" implicitely understood these days..=
[16:44] <ochosi> ?
[16:44] <elfy> not completely - but I *think* it hides if something happens to be where the panel is showing
[16:44] <elfy> then unhides when something is gone 
[16:46] <ochosi> right, so the general idea is: the panel is visible unless something is in its way
[16:46] <ochosi> "something" = usually a window (or an open menu from the panel)
[16:46] <ochosi> so maximized window -> panel hidden
[16:46] <elfy> yea - that was my understanding 
[16:46] <ochosi> ok
[16:46] <ochosi> cool
[16:46] <ochosi> i think unity's side-panel does the same
[16:47] <elfy> mmm - what if app not maximimised but positioned where panel is 
[16:47] <ochosi> so that could be a good point of reference for testers who are familiar with unity
[16:47] <ochosi> in that case it'd be hidden too
[16:47] <ochosi> so if you move a window to the panel's position, it'll go away
[16:47] <elfy> and yes - assuming that unity thing hasn't changed - unity panel autohides 
[16:47] <elfy> ok - so yep - I understand what it should do then :)
[16:47] <ochosi> but: this only reflects the position of the currently focused window
[16:48] <ochosi> so if you switch from a maximized window to a non-maximized+non-overlapping window, it'll show u
[16:48] <ochosi> p
[16:48] <ochosi> the second feature (although there's more work ahead until i'm there) is corner-tiling for xfwm4 plus an option to make it maximize windows instead of tiling to 50% when dragged to the top of the screen
[16:49] <elfy> ochosi: ok - so only hides for focussed window - useful 
[16:49] <ochosi> yup
[16:49] <ochosi> i think it's a useful feature
[16:50] <elfy> and as for 2nd - yep - as long as there's an easy way for us to get it tested - just tell me when it's there :)
[16:50] <elfy> same with anything really 
[16:52] <ali1234> unity actually doesn't do this any more
[16:52] <ali1234> they were never able to make it work correctly, so they disabled it by default
[16:54] <ochosi> elfy: ok, thanks!
[16:54] <ochosi> ali1234: ah, hm, interesting. i wonder why though, it's not like other docks don't get it right (like plank)
[16:55] <ali1234> you could say the same thing about pretty much every feature of unity
[16:56] <ochosi> i've never used it so i'd rather not
[16:56] <elfy> ali1234: thanks - it's a while since I properly looked at ubuntu
[16:56] <ochosi> but yeah, i do hope we got it right with xfce4-panel
[16:56] <ali1234> for most of the problems with unity the answer is because the design is stupid
[16:59] <ali1234> ie the design requires something that isn't actually possible, so rather than implement something else that is, they just leave the broken feature, because the design document is set in stone
[17:29] <ochosi> jjfrv8: i've copied over the xfpm docs and eric_the_idiot is taking the two screenshots that show the devices, so i gues we can consider that done for now
[17:29] <ochosi> thanks a lot for your effort - it's much appreciated!
[17:29] <ochosi> here they are: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/1.4/start
[17:52] <ochosi> sorry folks, gotta run :/
[17:53] <ochosi> in terms of the meeting, my updates would've been that a theme-rewrite will probably take place in the next weeks for Greybird and Numix (port to SASS to keep in sync with gtk upstream more easily)
[17:53] <ochosi> this means we'll have to test them quite a bit i guess
[17:54] <ochosi> and it'll also mean that the other themes will only receive bugfixes, if even
[17:54] <ochosi> Orion, Albatross and Bluebird most likely won't be ported to SASS
[17:54] <ochosi> (unless someone else does it)
[17:54] <ochosi> also started some exploratory vivid testing and will continue with that, we still have quite a few bugs to be tackled
[17:55] <ochosi> hopefully we can coordinate that sometime in the near future
[17:55] <ochosi> bluesabre: ^
[17:55] <ochosi> bluesabre: also, that python-indicate or python-libappindicator is still missing from our default install, so blueman is a trayicon instead of an indicator
[17:56]  * ochosi out
[17:57] <pleia2> doh, why did I wake up? :P
[17:57] <pleia2> (ok ok, it's 10am, but my bed is so snuggly!)
[18:00] <skellat> pleia2: Up for meeting we're apparently not having
[18:02] <pleia2> yep
[18:02] <pleia2> I don't have anything this week anyway :)
[18:02] <pleia2> anything == news from me re: team
[18:21] <elfy> I assume we'll just shuffle quietly along and reschedule then :p
[18:40] <Unit193> ochosi: Pong.
[18:49] <Unit193> brainwash: At the very least, in a terminal run: /usr/bin/xfce4-terminal --version  vs  /usr/bin/xfce4-terminal.wrapper --version  What's the point of the wrapper exactly?
[18:50] <Unit193> Ah, I think I see.
[18:50] <brainwash> it's apparently needed in debian land
[18:52] <Unit193> `xfce4-terminal echo foo bar` vs `xfce4-terminal.wrapper echo foo bar`: debian/xfce4-terminal.wrapper: stole code from gnome-terminal to match its behavior on '-x' and '-e'.                              closes: debian #548166
[18:54] <brainwash> interesting
[18:56] <brainwash> I guess I won't bother with this then
[18:57] <Unit193> You're still correct though, it's missing options.
[21:16] <ochosi> Unit193: i wanted to ask you whether you could update the daily panel build in your PPA so i can copy it to staging, so then elfy&co can test intelligent hiding
[21:16] <ochosi> there was another fix i think after your latest snapshot (unless you've rebuilt again already)
[21:18] <ochosi> also, i'm planning to merge this on top of xfwm4 master and then creating a patch-set from it. so if you could then throw that in a PPA so more people can do regression-testing before i propose to merge it to master, that'd be great!
[21:20] <ochosi> anyway, gotta run off again, ttyl
[21:24] <Unit193> Sure, can do.  Just not this second.  I'll get it tonight.