[00:07] <diddledan> I changed tack and went for wanna-build because it's better: http://buildd.pibuntu.org/architecture.php?a=armhf&suite=trusty
[00:07] <diddledan> :-)
[00:07] <diddledan> I'm still learning how to work it though
[00:08] <ali1234> i spent all day writing a loading screen
[00:09] <ali1234> and it's only displayed for 1 frame
[00:15] <diddledan> dang
[01:16] <daftykins> diddledan: what's this for?
[01:22] <daftykins> (the armhf build)
[01:23] <diddledan> daftykins, raspberry pi
[01:23] <daftykins> ah it is
[01:23] <daftykins> what's chugging away at it for you?
[01:23] <diddledan> just one box atm - a quad-core xeon
[01:24] <daftykins> rawr!
[01:24] <diddledan> (with hyperthreading, but that's meh)
[01:24] <daftykins> is there any way you can plug more into it from a home connection 0o
[01:25] <diddledan> there's that possibility, yes
[01:26] <diddledan> it's on the first run-through of several which are pretty hands-on to get the system bootstrapped
[01:26] <daftykins> several!?
[01:27] <diddledan> I need to compile against the pi processor specs to begin with and then I need to build a new chroot based on those files and redo the compilation self-hosted, and then ideally do the same again a third time to be sure everything is referencing pi-compatible binaries
[01:28] <diddledan> the first run-through is compiling against non-pi-compatible binaries so anything that statically compiles will be no use on the pi
[01:29] <diddledan> the second run based entirely on my own repo should be more compatible, and a third run seals the deal
[01:31] <daftykins> :)
[01:31] <diddledan> I'm trying to work out how to get the logs showing in that status page
[01:31] <daftykins> presumably you never heard an update on one of the alan's pi cluster project?
[01:31] <diddledan> it's saving the logs to the right place but seems to be putting the wrong timestamp in the database
[01:31] <diddledan> I donated to that
[01:32] <diddledan> I'm hoping that any work I do now will be able to help him get bootstrapped a bit quicker when he gets it running
[01:35] <diddledan> he certainly gets a +1 for the rack of pis he has: http://libertos.org/
[01:42] <daftykins> yeah, yet we've heard nothing :(
[01:46] <diddledan> I've not seen him about in here or on mailing lists much either
[01:47] <daftykins> seems to have retired from IRC 0o
[01:52] <diddledan> lol @ australia: Northern Territory Police Force
[01:52] <diddledan> Just after 3pm a report was received that there was a burning smell and smoke coming from the front of a house in Bonson Tce Moulden. Fire Brigade attended and determined that there was a burning tyre in the driveway and the residents were trying to cook eggs over it.
[01:53] <diddledan> Apart from the fact that it is unlawful to light fires in urban areas it surely must be recognised that burning rubber is not an appropriate heat source for cooking. Or for positive neighbourly relations. And its dangerous.
[02:03] <zmoylan-pi> people are not smart
[02:05] <diddledan> I've heard it said that a person is intelligent. people are stupid.
[02:05] <diddledan> i.e. it depends on whether you're talking individually or plurally
[02:07] <diddledan> I've not had a reply from my spamm0r yet
[02:12] <daftykins> :(
[02:25] <zmoylan-pi> i think the rule of thumb is the number of people over the iq of the dumbest person is the average iq of a group
[02:30] <shauno> humans are simple.  just turn them off and back on again ..
[02:31] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rng8bgrn2v92pi2/stock.JPG?dl=0
[02:31] <daftykins> :P
[02:32] <daftykins> £10 for a 2kW heater with 1 year warranty, or £27 for a 3kW heater with 3 year warranty
[02:37]  * zmoylan-pi wonders why a heater only gets a 1 year warranty...
[02:41] <daftykins> they don't have much confidence eh? :D
[02:47] <diddledan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10636329_1117344994961619_4188310716858277202_n.jpg?oh=6693ae31cba47a93f3c78c797a97a2fe&oe=54FB226E&__gda__=1426343428_0829bac2fead9e47131b77f93dc03ca1
[02:47] <diddledan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10857864_894716910547643_1931540256957994308_n.jpg?oh=321f09247aea5951263a5e7061f7da68&oe=54FF1989&__gda__=1427889493_e7cdc8d3f0f63d05148aadbca752a507
[02:48] <diddledan> yey, christmas!
[02:59] <zmoylan-pi> it'd be the parent company having shares in insurance companies that would trouble me
[03:12] <shauno> 1yr's pretty standard most places
[03:16] <diddledan> damn, I just locked-up
[03:34] <mapps> yo
[03:34] <mapps> a lot of bad things appen to real good people:(
[03:42] <daftykins> mapps: oh?
[03:44] <mapps> hey
[03:44] <mapps> just in a bad mood
[03:44] <mapps> my mum died on the 8th december and noone cares
[03:45] <mapps> ruined my life:D
[03:49] <daftykins> yesterday?
[03:49] <mapps> yes
[03:49] <daftykins> sorry to hear that mate :(
[03:49] <mapps> thats ok
[03:49] <mapps> its life
[03:49] <mapps> been trying toi deal with t for 14 years
[03:49] <mapps> ;p
[03:50] <mapps> i hate smoking
[03:50] <mapps> i hate drinking
[03:50] <mapps> but i cant help it:(
[03:51] <daftykins> i guess there are those that have more addictive personalities, but surely you can kick it if you really want rid?
[03:52] <mapps> sure
[03:52] <mapps> but what did i do to deserve this
[03:52] <mapps> no family at all
[03:52] <zmoylan-pi> you started drinking and smoking despite everyone telling you they were addictive?
[03:53] <mapps> almost yes
[03:53] <mapps> after mum died
[03:53] <mapps> evervything went downhill
[03:57] <daftykins> were your parents together at the time?
[04:03] <mapps> of course
[04:04] <mapps> we arent council estate:D
[04:04] <daftykins> lol, happens everywhere over here
[04:04] <mapps> my dad loved my mum
[04:04] <mapps> but mum couldnt help herself
[04:04] <mapps> she wasa 40 a day-er
[04:05] <mapps> and it eventually caught her out:(
[04:05] <daftykins> :(
[04:06] <mapps> thats lie eh
[04:06] <mapps> *life
[04:07] <mapps> no matter what money people have..stuff happens
[04:07] <daftykins> it sure is. my brother's mother in law dropped dead of a brain clot in the middle of school
[04:07] <daftykins> (she was a teacher)
[04:07] <mapps> i remember going and seeing mum on the stretchr in a&e
[04:07] <mapps> talking rubbish and being weird (shed had a stoke)
[04:09] <daftykins> aaah yeah i saw my gran after something similar
[04:09] <mapps> ruined my life tbh
[04:09] <daftykins> kinda frightening to see
[04:09] <mapps> when i was at uni and peoples mums coming....no mum here
[04:10] <mapps> what can you dio though
[04:10] <mapps> :(
[04:10] <daftykins> just care for ourselves and the ones we still have, tbh
[04:11]  * diddledan hugs everyone
[04:14] <mapps> yep
[04:14] <daftykins> diddledan: d'aww
[04:14] <daftykins> mapps: and that means we're gonna start rationing your cigarettes young man :P
[04:14] <mapps> spent far too many hours in a&e for a 30 year old
[04:14] <mapps> sure
[04:15] <mapps> might help me
[04:15] <daftykins> hehe, i joke i don't wanna tell you what to do.
[04:15] <daftykins> oh from visiting?
[04:15] <mapps> jesus christ
[04:15] <mapps> il be dead by 40
[04:15] <daftykins> it was definitely an experience for me, being in there
[04:15] <mapps> no matter how much weighs i do or spinning
[04:16] <mapps> i smoke 30 a day and have a drink problem
[04:16] <mapps> it wont end well;p
[04:23] <daftykins> my vices are not sorting my life out
[04:23] <daftykins> so i know how it is to feel pretty powerless to things
[04:23] <diddledan> I'm apathetic
[04:24] <daftykins> toward the pitfalls of life?
[04:24] <diddledan> toward life in general
[04:25] <daftykins> mmm
[04:25] <diddledan> I regularly bury my head
[04:25] <daftykins> you're making a good go of it though, with work :D
[04:26] <diddledan> the money helps ;-)
[06:10] <daftykins> nn sirs \o
[06:22] <mapps> nn
[06:22] <mapps> another 30fags and 12 pints later
[06:22] <mapps> guess its bed time
[06:22] <mapps> :)
[06:23] <mapps> i must average like 30pints a week..for the last 8years
[06:23] <mapps> kinda bad
[07:47] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:03] <Guest27929> thanks in advance. can any one help in creating a multiboot live dvd(with multiple isos in it)
[08:09] <Ocean_>  thanks in advance. can any one help in creating a multiboot live dvd(with multiple isos in it)
[08:10] <MooDoo> http://www.sarducd.it/multiboot-dvd-builder.html
[08:11] <MooDoo> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/02/multicd-builds-multi-boot-cd-dvd-with.html
[08:11] <MooDoo> https://superuser.com/questions/116106/multiboot-dvd-with-live-cds
[08:11] <MooDoo> take your pic, loads of tutorials on google on how to do it :D
[08:42] <Ocean_> MooDoo, thanks. i tried to use this script. i amnot sure if kali linux is supported with this script. i am not good with command line
[08:49] <MooDoo> I think you'll just have to scour the internet for a tutorial, and if someone here knows a better way, i'm sure they will read this conversation and say something :D
[09:03] <Ocean_> MooDoo, lol
[09:16] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Anti-corruption Day! :-D
[10:21] <foobarry> morningtons
[10:23] <MooDoo> morning
[10:31] <DJones> Dammed Google, changing the swipe to unlock from horizontal to vertical with the Lollipop update, its going take me months to overcome horizontal swiping muscle memory
[10:33] <foobarry> wonders if he will ever get an OTA update for next
[10:36] <popey> what device?
[10:37] <foobarry> motog original. allegedly its coming...
[10:37] <popey> can't imagine I'll ever get lollipop on the hudl
[10:37] <foobarry> "coming soon"
[10:37] <foobarry> With the update rolling out, the first-generation Moto G becomes the most affordable smartphone to run Android 5.0 Lollipop in India.
[10:38] <popey>  1989 root      20   0  732496 204784 142456 R  79.3  1.3   1931:58 Xorg
[10:38]  * popey wonders what xorg is _doing_
[10:38] <foobarry> chewing
[10:38] <popey> laptop is crawling
[10:38]  * popey kills off firefox
[10:40] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:42] <Safiyyah> Hi all am still struggling with a login loop on Xubuntu.  I  have found a possible solution at
[10:43] <Safiyyah> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1876605
[10:43] <Safiyyah> This is in the second comment,  however I  don't know what the Xauthority file should be like
[10:43] <foobarry> check quota/disk space?
[10:43] <Safiyyah> Is anyone willing to help
[10:44] <Safiyyah> I  can't log in,  so I have to use the terminal via ctrl +alt +f1
[10:45] <Safiyyah> foolery,  please give me the entire command as it should be entered
[10:45] <foobarry> df -h
[10:45] <foobarry> also tail -100 ~/.xsession-errors
[10:47] <Safiyyah> How do I get it to pastebin from the terminal?
[10:47] <foobarry> there is a package called pastebinit
[10:47] <foobarry> so you pipe output to pastebin if it doesn't contain senstive data
[10:47] <foobarry> df -h | pastebinit
[10:48] <Safiyyah> Don't have a pipe key
[10:48] <Safiyyah> Any option?
[10:48] <foobarry> df -h > /tmp/file.txt
[10:49] <foobarry> pastebinit -i /tmp/file.txt
[10:50] <Safiyyah>  no such file  in director
[10:50] <Safiyyah> Anyway the highest disk usage is 34‰
[10:51] <Safiyyah> So it's not the disk space.  I  have a log in loop
[10:51] <Safiyyah> I think
[10:51] <foobarry> well if X is crashing
[10:51] <foobarry> then .xsession-errors file
[10:52] <foobarry> will have useful stuff
[10:52] <foobarry> you can pastebin that too
[10:52] <foobarry> do you actually have pastebinit installed?
[10:52] <Safiyyah> Yes
[10:52] <Safiyyah> I  checked :)
[10:53] <Safiyyah> The issue is the lack of a pipe key
[10:53] <Safiyyah> I  need to sort that out as soon as I  log in because it keeps troubling me
[10:53] <foobarry> pastebinit -i $HOME/.xsession-errors
[10:54] <foobarry> lack of pipe usually means wrong keyboard language, it is usually there somewhere
[10:54] <Safiyyah> Also says no such file in directory
[10:55] <Safiyyah> Also there is no command called tail-100
[10:56] <Safiyyah> I  need to surrender to an American format keyboard,  that's all.
[10:57] <Safiyyah> The lack of a £ key drives me mad
[10:57] <Safiyyah> Will sort that out in a minute.  Need to log in first
[10:59] <Safiyyah> Foobarry then last command returned an error,  Xsession-errors not found.  I  am running Xubuntu   if that's relevant
[11:11] <Safiyyah> Foobarry I  reinstalled Xubuntu-default-settings
[11:11] <Safiyyah> Now it logs in for 1 second and goes back on the loop
[11:16] <foobarry> tail -100
[11:16] <foobarry> has a space
[11:16] <foobarry> if the commands don't work i suspect you are typing them wrong
[11:19] <Safiyyah> Okay
[11:19] <Safiyyah> Will start again
[11:19] <foobarry> #xubuntu channel might also be able to help
[11:22] <Safiyyah> I  posted there too foobarry
[11:22] <Safiyyah> Right am on the phone so the links are 9440368 and 9440383
[11:22] <Safiyyah> You need to key in the whole link please
[11:24] <Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9440383/
[11:25] <Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9440368/
[11:25] <ali1234> i nkow what the problem is
[11:25] <ali1234> when you backed up your home directory you didnt copy any hidden files
[11:26] <Safiyyah> What is the issue with . Profile
[11:26] <Safiyyah> I didn't work off a back up.  I  made a fresh install,  then when it was complete,  manually copied it over,  you think maybe it's using the old file?
[11:27] <Safiyyah> Either way the system was also Xubuntu  14.04
[11:28] <Safiyyah> I  thought about doing a fresh install again,  but then figured this might happen again,  at a very inconvenient time and I  won't know what to do to fix it
[11:31] <foobarry> either .profile doesn't exist or you don't have permissions to open it
[11:33] <foobarry> ls -al will show you who owns the files
[11:40] <Safiyyah> foobarry ls -al just listed the files  in the home directory,  ls -lah worked
[11:40] <Safiyyah> The file is owned by root
[11:41] <Safiyyah> Which is probably the problem isn't it supposed to be owned by safiyyah?
[11:41] <ali1234> yes
[11:41] <ali1234> and lots of other file too
[11:41] <foobarry> sudo chown -R safiyyah:safiyyah /home/safiyyah
[11:42] <foobarry> will change owner of all the files in /home/safiyyah
[11:42] <Safiyyah> AHHHHHH,  I  know how I created this problem!
[11:43] <foobarry> you copied all the files as root
[11:43] <foobarry> cp -rp retains permissions
[11:43] <Safiyyah> Yep
[11:43] <Safiyyah> Used gksudo thunar
[11:45] <Safiyyah> Well at least this was my own fault and not a hardware fault.  I  just recovered from a dead hard disk
[11:46] <Safiyyah> Oh my goodness,  well lesson learnt,  I  am grateful
[11:46] <Safiyyah> Thank you guys
[11:47] <foobarry> did you fix it?
[11:48] <popey> easy mistake to make
[11:49] <ali1234> i like to use cp -a
[11:49] <ali1234> but when copying files betwween installs watch out for changed UIDs
[11:49] <ali1234> this usually won't happen if you only have one user though
[11:50] <Safiyyah> Foobarry yes it's fixed
[11:50] <Safiyyah> Thank you
[11:50] <Safiyyah> I  inky had one user. Hadn't even added the kids account yet
[11:50] <Safiyyah> Only*
[11:51] <Safiyyah> Smart phone is a life saver because I  normally also disable the guest account
[11:51] <Safiyyah> I have a little boy who likes to wake up at 5am to play games
[11:51] <Safiyyah> So guest must be disabled
[11:53] <Safiyyah> Right it's time to sort my graphics out.  I  was locked out couldn't finish up with the installation,  plus was out getting other things done. So am still here,  if I  get stuck
[11:54] <Safiyyah> Popey you work for them,  please out a suggestion forward that the software centre accounts should remember what software I have downloaded in the past.  It really helps.
[11:55] <Safiyyah> My hard drive died just a month after I upgraded to 14.04 and I  had the system JUUuuussstttt right.  I  don't remember half the stuff I  had on emperor the kids
[11:57] <popey> i thought software centre did do that?
[11:58] <popey> there's a couple of menu options
[11:58] <Safiyyah> let me log in and see,  cos as far as  I  know it doesn't
[12:01] <Safiyyah> Popey,  found it,  it's not user friendly though.  But it's fine for geeky people....  If you know what I mean.  Well I  learnt something new again...  Again
[12:01] <Safiyyah> Thank you
[12:01] <popey> np
[12:07] <Safiyyah> Foobarry cp -rp is that possible with a graphical gksudo thunar /nautilus?
[12:07] <foobarry> i don't know
[12:08] <Safiyyah> Hmm okay
[12:09] <Safiyyah> Well it's duely noted,  would have saved myself a lot of trouble
[12:10] <foobarry> best to follow a tutorial online for this stuff
[12:13] <Safiyyah> Meeeh just did what I  usually do and it bit back
[13:00] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[13:02] <popey> evening
[13:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: what time do you call this ;)
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> time for irc to invent a time neutral greeting standard :-)
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> hello mammals o/
[13:07] <bigcalm> Morning is the UGT :)
[13:08] <bigcalm> It may be '13:08 GMT' but it's always 'Morning UGT'
[13:09] <popey> "moin" is the time neutral greeting
[13:09] <popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin "Moin is used at all times of day, not just in the morning"
[13:23]  * zmoylan-pi thinks bells ahoy hoy never got a fair shake
[13:47] <DJones> Freenode actually has a FAQ about that, and bigcalm is correct :)
[13:48] <bigcalm> \o/
[13:48] <DJones> https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#fst
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> and like all faq's no one seems to have read it so internet standard is maintained \o/ :-D
[13:48] <DJones> Its morning when you become active
[13:49] <DJones> zmoylan-pi: I must be the only one thats ever read it, I think I must have been looking for something else a while back and saw it by accident
[13:49] <zmoylan-pi> pageviews:1
[13:49] <popey> i read a bit
[13:50] <intrbiz> the alternative, would be to just say: hello
[13:50] <popey> pageviews: 1.5
[13:50] <DJones> Or just be a teenager and "grunt" on IRC
[13:51] <DJones> Wonder how Harry Enfields "Kevin" would say morning on IRC
[13:51] <foobarry> oi
[13:53] <popey> Hello Mrs Patterson.
[13:56] <bigcalm> Kevin wouldn't say that. She's his mum
[13:56] <bigcalm> Perry would be more likely to say it
[13:57] <popey> his mum isnt here
[13:57] <popey> making it doubly confusing
[14:47] <shauno> for me, it's morning until I've had two cups of coffee, regardless of locally aligned chronometers
[14:53] <zmoylan-pi> what happens when an out of coffee error occurs?
[14:55] <shauno> that's an uncaught exception :/
[14:59] <zmoylan-pi> some sort of cap with 'bring coffee' written on the top...
[15:34] <awilkins> Like those restaurants where you have a coloured beermat
[15:34] <awilkins> One side red
[15:34] <awilkins> One side greed
[15:35] <awilkins> s/eed/een/
[15:35] <awilkins> Red means "bring meat"
[15:35] <awilkins> (Argentinian meat sword restaurants)
[15:36] <daftykins> Crikey the Nexus 5 is cheap now
[15:36] <daftykins> from 239.99
[15:36] <diddledan> morning
[15:36] <daftykins> o/
[15:36] <arsenip> hi daftykins
[15:37] <daftykins> what-o sir
[15:37] <daftykins> how are we all doing this fine afternoon?
[15:40] <arsenip> good thanking ye. you?
[15:40] <arsenip> pretty cold and wet here, and im hungry, and i need a cuppa, but .. good.
[15:41] <daftykins> mmm yeah not bad ta :D
[15:41] <daftykins> seems i'm gonna move the boss to O2 instead of vodafone for his international phone (includes the UK)
[15:41] <daftykins> apparently voda have been seriously sucking around London for a while now 0o
[15:41] <daftykins> gonna buy him a Galaxy Note 3 as well, i know the 4 is out but damn is it pricey
[15:41] <arsenip> i use vodafone
[15:41] <arsenip> oneplus one is meant to be good
[15:41] <daftykins> no problems i take it? :D
[15:42] <daftykins> mmm, i had one but... meh
[15:42] <arsenip> yeah i use it in the city, and at home, and in remote places (arse end cornwall, another-orafice-nottinghamshire), and err the US
[15:42] <arsenip> vodafone that is. i'm an iphone user.
[15:43] <diddledan> what happened to the "visual voicemail" thing that apple touted with the very original iphone?
[15:43] <daftykins> arsenip: he's probably just ducking under the nearest granite wall for every call XD
[15:44] <zmoylan-pi> a lot of phone companies didn't want to pay apple to use that
[15:44] <arsenip> sounds like a good idea diddledan
[15:44] <arsenip> maybe daftykins - there are always deadzones.. and if it lines up with your office you'll have a bad time
[15:45] <arsenip> the city is always a bit parp for phones due to all the buildings etc
[15:45] <arsenip> you get random/interesting behaviour.
[15:45] <daftykins> *nod*
[15:45] <shauno> diddledan: very little.  It needs the operator to support it.  and they quickly discovered that if they don't, they still sell contracts
[15:45] <daftykins> arsenip: i didn't hugely believe him for a bit, but he's after change... so with a new contract, provider and phone - he'll be able to run both side by side and compare :)
[15:46] <arsenip> i find 4g helps.
[15:46] <zmoylan-pi> i find switching to 2g gets me data no matter where or when
[15:47] <daftykins> lol
[15:47] <daftykins> that failed down in a valley for me
[15:47] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fz006ibpbygcj3y/AACw5Fqaal0DQqRW66-yis8-a?dl=0
[15:47] <diddledan> the dudes behind iron sky are getting crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM13yXlW-Vs
[15:47] <daftykins> couldn't even upload one pic from down there :D
[15:48] <diddledan> their other crazyness - hitler riding a dinosaur
[15:49] <zmoylan-pi> instant godwin and dinosaurs 'n' humans driving the paleontoligists bonkers fun :-)
[15:50] <shauno> diddledan: have you seen 'dead snow'?
[15:50] <diddledan> nope
[15:50] <shauno> it's terrible.  well worth looking for if you found iron sky funny :)
[15:51] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKPwtDjzJMI
[16:46] <SuperMatt> oh wow, snappy looks great
[17:02] <popey> snap snap
[17:04] <ali1234> so in a click package you bundle anything that isn't in a base ubuntu system, in a snappy package you effectively ship an entire virtual machine?
[17:04] <ali1234> distro and everything
[17:04] <SuperMatt> nooot quite, for what I can tell
[17:05] <SuperMatt> because you only need to include the bare minimum to make your app work
[17:05] <ali1234> yes
[17:05] <ali1234> so glibc, libx11, gtk...
[17:07] <SuperMatt> I've not worked out yet how to start this owncloud instance I have installed
[17:14] <SuperMatt> well I tell you, having ubuntu core would make my support job so much easier
[17:16] <SuperMatt> especially when I can tell customers to have different snappy packages for apache/nginx, php-fpm and mysql
[17:16] <popey> you could even make those packages and upload them to the store.
[17:16] <diddledan> snappy?
[17:17] <diddledan> linky?
[17:17] <SuperMatt> that's be great to have officially supported rackspace snappy packages
[17:17] <bashrc> I assume that this snappy thing is open sourcy
[17:17] <SuperMatt> it's stop users from doing their own crazy stuff
[17:17] <awilkins> diddledan,  : http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/snappy
[17:18] <awilkins> Oooh, transactional package updates
[17:18] <awilkins> dingding
[17:18] <SuperMatt> oh heh, the services actually started automatically.
[17:18] <SuperMatt> well that is cool
[17:18] <SuperMatt> a magento snappy stack would make life *SO* easy
[17:18] <diddledan> I don't know what transactional updating means
[17:19] <ali1234> transactional means it either completely finishes or doesn't happen at all
[17:19] <bashrc> I guess it means you can roll back
[17:19] <diddledan> aah
[17:19] <diddledan> like a database transaction
[17:19] <SuperMatt> dang, that's cool
[17:19] <SuperMatt> no more dpkg hell
[17:20] <diddledan> I suppose that's tech borrowed from the image-updating of touch?
[17:20] <popey> yes
[17:20] <SuperMatt> I for one am totally excited
[17:20] <SuperMatt> keep up the ballin' work
[17:20] <ali1234> what i don't understand is if you isolate all the applications, then how does the web server talk to php and how does php talk to the database?
[17:21] <popey> apparmor profiles which allow networking
[17:21] <ali1234> or to give another example, how do you allow your IDE and your compiler to access the same files?
[17:21] <diddledan> interesting that azure is the first provider to be on-boarded
[17:21] <diddledan> (interesting because it shows ms' new attitude to opensource and linux)
[17:22] <diddledan> their whole "we love linux" is really being pushed home these days
[17:22] <popey> you run your ide in the cloud?
[17:22] <ali1234> no but i might run it on my phone
[17:22] <popey> content-hub
[17:22] <popey> you can share data between apps
[17:23] <ali1234> how is gcc supposed to talk to content hub?
[17:23] <popey> or bundle the compiler with the ide..
[17:23] <popey> dunno, one for #snappy ☻
[17:23] <ali1234> if i make a click package with gcc that rns it in a terminal, won't it just immediately exit with "no input files"?
[17:25] <bashrc> snappy sounds interesting
[17:26] <ahayzen> ali1234, but you would be able to listen to any files imported over content-hub?
[17:27] <ali1234> what does that even mean?
[17:28] <ahayzen> ali1234, files are exported from one app to another over content-hub ... you would be able to detect when they have been 'imported' into your app
[17:28] <ali1234> let's assume that my editor is nano, by compiler is gcc, and my project build system is make
[17:29] <ali1234> none of those support content-hub
[17:29] <ahayzen> ali1234, but your wrapper would?
[17:29] <ali1234> so when i run make, what happens?
[17:30] <ahayzen> ali1234, i'm talking from a phone point of view... but if you could import all the files via content-hub hub then you could run make in the imported directory...and then even export the binary if you wanted?
[17:31] <ahayzen> ali1234, docs here if your interested http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Content.index/
[17:31] <ali1234> so essentially i would create a directory somehow, and then export it to the editor, make, gcc, and then everything would just work as normal?
[17:31] <ahayzen> popey, so will snappy have similar apparmor things to we have on touch?
[17:31] <popey> dunno, it's new to me too ☻
[17:32] <diddledan> has it been secret internally, too? :-)
[17:33] <ali1234> i kind of get the feeling it was developed in response to the owncloud problems last month
[17:33] <bashrc> perhaps there is a vanguard
[17:33] <ahayzen> ali1234, possibly... for example in music...if you go to the web browser download a mp3 and then select to "open with music" it then puts the file into a folder called HubIncoming/some number/ folder which you can r/w to .. we then move it into ~/Music but i guess you could then run make, gcc in that directory?
[17:33] <diddledan> I must say I like what canonical are doing with ubuntu - I get that it alienates some folk but they're stuck in the mud
[17:34] <daftykins> i agree if you focus on main ubuntu
[17:34]  * bashrc rolls in mud
[17:34] <SuperMatt> the new mentality is devops, and I have to agree with it
[17:34] <SuperMatt> snappy is just that
[17:34] <ahayzen> ali1234, this is ofcourse assuming it all works the same as with touch
[17:34] <ali1234> ahayzen: i'm mainly talking about touch
[17:34] <ahayzen> ali1234, ah cool :) then that ^^
[17:35] <ali1234> so how does that work for traditional apps that don't know about content hub? that's my question
[17:35] <bashrc> so is this a rebranding or further elaboration on click packages?
[17:35] <ali1234> i would have to write a wrapper program that is able to share any arbitrary file between arbitrary applications? but it seems like that would be a huge security problem if that was even possible
[17:36] <ahayzen> ali1234, support will need to be added i guess? idk popey ?
[17:36] <ahayzen> ali1234, you go via a helper though? music doesn't know where the file comes from it just sees a new import request
[17:36] <ali1234> what creates the import request?
[17:37] <ali1234> i press ctrl-o enter ctrl-x in nano, then what happens?
[17:37] <ahayzen> ali1234, the user selecting to "open with music app" after an app has exported something that has been flagged the type of music
[17:37] <ali1234> then i go to the wrapper app, find the file i just saved, click export, select gcc, press okay?
[17:37] <ali1234> then repeat that for make
[17:37] <ali1234> and any other tool used in my build system
[17:38] <ahayzen> ali1234, you may be better off putting them all together in one click as each app has its own HubIncoming directory
[17:38] <ahayzen> ali1234, you should talk to the content-hub guys on #ubuntu-touch ;)
[17:39] <ali1234> so basically if i want to do any dev work on the phone i need to put every single development tool ever into a single click package, in order to defeat the security?
[17:40] <ali1234> i'm gonna need a click package with gcc, binutils, coreutils, make, cmake, nano, ssh...
[17:40] <ahayzen> ali1234, i think you could do it via content-hub and multiple apps ... but if you wanted an 'easy' solution you could pack them all into one ;)
[17:40] <ali1234> seems like it would be easier to just make the system writable and apt-get all those things instead
[17:41] <ahayzen> haha
[17:41] <ahayzen> ali1234, i would have a chat with kenvandine he helped me get content-hub working with music and would probably be interested to discuss that usecase
[17:42] <diddledan> there's a teminal app - I have yet to work out what that's allowed to access and not with the security policies
[17:43] <ali1234> right-o
[17:43] <ali1234> anyway, dinner time
[17:43] <ahayzen> diddledan, you have to enter your password when you start the terminal app ... allowing it further access
[17:49] <diddledan> oh lordy - someone's packaged slackware-1.0 into a qemu disc image (linux kernel version 0.99)
[17:52] <diddledan> http://www.qemu-advent-calendar.org/#day-1
[17:52] <popey> check todays ☻
[17:53] <diddledan> popey, yeah it was from the link on the snappy page that I found it
[17:54] <diddledan> geek cred for yesterday's tho
[17:54] <diddledan> zork in uefi
[17:54] <daftykins> zork 0o
[17:54] <zmoylan-pi> well it was written to run in how few k?
[17:58] <diddledan> popey, next step on the snappy front - get snappy apps deployable and interconnecting with juju
[17:58] <diddledan> s/with/via/
[18:49] <diddledan> windows 10 pricing speculation: http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operating-systems/brendan-morgan/could-windows-10-and-beyond-be-a-subscription-service/
[18:49] <diddledan> combat libre with gratic
[18:49] <diddledan> gratis
[18:50] <zmoylan-pi> that'll be fun when on holiday and you can't get on hotel crappy wifi to renew subscription and are locked out of laptop for duration
[18:51] <diddledan> lol
[18:51] <zmoylan-pi> or you can call home on mobile at roaming rates and type in the 56 digit number that was the xp activation fun
[18:52] <zmoylan-pi> and find when you get home the bill is also 56 digits :-)
[19:08] <diddledan> why is emulating arm processors with qemu so slow?
[19:09] <zmoylan-pi> intel wants to punish you for not using x86 :-)
[19:10] <diddledan> that would be a funky chip - an intel or amd x86_64 with arm-instructions-capable hardware virtualisation
[19:11] <diddledan> so the chip can run 32bit x86 code, or 64bit x86 code, or 32bit arm code or a mix of all three
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> you could probably do it with the cpu used by the pi if it were on the motherboard of your system for networking :-P
[19:12] <zmoylan-pi> wow the arm emulation is fast.  yes that's the network card handling all the arm calls in hardware :-)
[19:14] <zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember the hp95lx used a 80186 a chip intended for printers as a cpu for handheld dos system. though i could be completely wrong.  ::goes to check::
[19:19] <diddledan> ooh, sbdfl did a snappy video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlcTDz9ogug
[19:19] <diddledan> sabdfl**
[19:22] <shauno> I was wondering about mixed-cpu systems the other day
[19:22] <zmoylan-pi> apps in the cloud... do. not. want.
[19:23] <shauno> having the OS on an arm for uber battery, and a seperate x86 that gets fired up if/when for heavy lifting
[19:24] <diddledan> shauno, it's actually a good concept and has been proven already with things like intel-gfx+nvidia-gfx switching
[19:24] <shauno> and the amiga when using a ppc accelerator :)
[19:24] <popey> well, thats what arm big.little is, surely?
[19:24] <popey> two differently sized cores
[19:24] <diddledan> the thing to ensure is that they're cooperative so you don't end up with an either-or mechanism
[19:25] <popey> the nvidia tegra ones are like that too iirc, 5 cores. 4 big one small.
[19:25] <diddledan> popey, but essentially they're both arm
[19:25] <popey> right, makes sense
[19:25] <diddledan> I want an arm+x86
[19:25] <popey> you want arm and x86 binaries to co-exist?
[19:25] <popey> that sounds fun
[19:25] <diddledan> bingo
[19:26] <popey> FSVO fun
[19:26] <zmoylan-pi> i want a psion 6.  a psion 5 with wifi and bt :-)
[19:26] <shauno> well, 'big' doesn't really need to be x86.  but they're still a good few years behind intel for desktop/laptop class
[19:26] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you're cracked
[19:26] <zmoylan-pi> this is sadly true diddledan :-)
[19:26] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't mean i'm wrong though :-D
[19:26] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, just because you believe in old tech doesn't mean it's good
[19:27] <zmoylan-pi> the best tech doesn't always win diddledan
[19:27] <diddledan> this is true
[19:27] <shauno> most the ground word is already in osx, as a leftover from the ppc-intel switch
[19:27] <zmoylan-pi> and we seem to have moved to a one size fits all with all touch screens everywhere eliminating the qwerty keyboard so many love
[19:27] <diddledan> but that doesn't mean you carry on using the better tech for 20 years even though several generations have superceded it
[19:28] <mapps> hm
[19:28] <mapps> so thats handy
[19:28] <mapps> cant topup my gibraltar simcard online
[19:28] <mapps> have to have a creditdebit card registered here
[19:28] <mapps> ;[
[19:29] <diddledan> well that sucks
[19:29] <diddledan> what difference does the registered address make to them?!
[19:29] <ali1234> i dont see why you couldn't have x86 and arm cores in one system
[19:30] <diddledan> they just pass the number onto mastercard or visa and get a yey/ney response
[19:30] <zmoylan-pi> with the transmeta chip idea a few years back you could have done it but it was never fast enough
[19:30] <diddledan> ok, it's a bit more complex than that, but that's the essence
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: name is also checked at least
[19:30] <diddledan> I knew the transmeta was a thing but I never knew anything about it
[19:31] <popey> i had a transmeta laptop
[19:31] <popey> sony vaio
[19:31] <zmoylan-pi> cool
[19:31] <diddledan> linus torvalds was working on it for a while, wasn't he?
[19:31] <zmoylan-pi> yup
[19:32] <zmoylan-pi> there was also the sinclair ql which put a 32 bit chip in 16 bit bus for a very fast 16 bit computer.  linus cut his teeth on one of those.  great machines by all accounts
[19:33] <ali1234> what
[19:33] <mapps> Yep diddledan  exactly
[19:33] <mapps> the website says that i figured il try anyway and it goes to worldplay lets me put a UK address..comes back DECLINED
[19:33] <mapps> ;[
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> like.. 8088s being 16 bit chips with 8 bit data bus?
[19:33] <ali1234> that's like saying you cut two wheels off your car to make a very fast motorbike
[19:33] <zmoylan-pi> it sounds weird but sinclair made it work
[19:34] <popey> not really
[19:34] <popey> it was unreliable and slow
[19:34] <zmoylan-pi> sinclair had a knack for great ideas failed by bad reliability
[19:34] <ali1234> connecting a 32 bit processor to a 16 bit bus is not a good idea
[19:34] <popey> indeed, it took two gulps for each memory access
[19:35] <zmoylan-pi> it was if you wanted a cheap system to learn on.
[19:35] <shauno> eh, that's what most the low-cost variants of m68k did
[19:35] <zmoylan-pi> my boss made a few bob wiring ql's up to pbx systems to create a log of all calls made and their cost
[19:42] <diddledan> transmeta's chips sound funky
[19:42] <diddledan> "The processor could emulate multiple other architectures, possibly even at the same time. (At its initial Crusoe launch, Transmeta demonstrated pico-Java and x86 running intermixed on the native hardware.)"
[19:43] <diddledan> I assume it was slow, though, due to requiring the software layer to translate all x86 (and other systems) calls into native calls
[19:44] <zmoylan-pi> they were just starting to show promise when they ran out of money iirc
[19:44] <diddledan> it would, however, perform the same for whatever architecture you want to run though
[19:45] <zmoylan-pi> my guess is when the patents run out someone will rediscover the idea
[19:45] <diddledan> i.e. arm would be the same speed as x86 because they'd both go through the same translation
[19:46] <diddledan> obviously the difference between RISC and CISC might cause differences in speed but otherwise they'd be comparable
[19:48] <diddledan> the translation layer worked like a JIT, though, allowing it to perform optimisations as the programs are running - each time they run it could progressively improve their speed based on previous runthroughs which a compiler can't predict based on static-analysis
[19:50] <diddledan> ref: hhvm - php runtime by facebook - their JIT is constantly improving performance so that a single page load from a cold cache would be quite slow but as the site gets visited more it can improve the performance of the hot code-paths and even start to predict the outcome of functions based on previous experience
[19:50] <diddledan> JITs are funky things
[19:51] <diddledan> there is evidence that JITs are able outperform native compiled code
[19:51] <diddledan> so much so that someone ran an emulation of a processor via a JIT on the platform it was emulating and the code in emulation went faster than the native code on bare-metal
[19:52] <diddledan> would be funky having a JIT that JITted itself
[19:52] <diddledan> skynet?!
[21:07] <popey> are there any double-din car stereos that don't look all blingy and ridiculous?
[21:08] <popey> i mean, look at this nonsense.. 80CBXI
[21:08] <popey> er
[21:08] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-FH-X720BT-Double-MIXTRAX-Android/dp/B00N80CBXI
[21:09] <ali1234> what is double din?
[21:09] <popey> Double height
[21:09] <zmoylan-pi> probably the height of the unit
[21:09] <popey> double Din-E
[21:09] <zmoylan-pi> dynf
[21:09] <popey> DIN-E being the usual size of car stereos
[21:10] <popey> usual size of aftermarket ones. most modern cars have a double height slot
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> you'd need to see it in dark to see if it has 100w blue leds to annoy you though :-)
[21:10] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alpine-CDE-W235BT-In-Dash-Receiver-Blueto/dp/B008869XMO is slightly less offensive
[21:10] <popey> this is for wifeys car
[21:12] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/JVC-KW-R600BTE-Stereo-Bluetooth-AUX-Input/dp/B0078327US also awful
[21:12] <ali1234> http://store.mp3car.com/New_Silver_Double_Din_Nano_ITX_Carputer_Enclosure_p/enc-041s.htm
[21:12] <ali1234> and then install ubuntu on it
[21:13] <popey> ali1234: does xubuntu ship with whois? someone just told me it doesn't!?
[21:13] <zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi powered media centre for the car... :-P
[21:13] <ali1234> popey: i have it, but i might have installed it
[21:13] <diddledan> popey, ubuntu-desktop doesn't, so I'm assuming xubuntu is the same
[21:13] <popey> waaaat
[21:13] <ali1234> i think you have to install like "internet-tools" or somehting
[21:13] <popey> surely everything has it
[21:14] <ali1234> traceroute isn't installed by default either
[21:15] <diddledan> ali1234, tracepath is though
[21:15] <ali1234> and mtr
[21:15] <ali1234> but traceroute is the most known tool
[21:15] <popey> yeah
[21:16] <ali1234> i have a vm actually
[21:16] <ali1234> yeah whois not installed by default on xubuntu
[21:17] <diddledan> only us geeks use whois though, so it doesn't matter that it's not installed </controversial> :-p
[21:20] <zmoylan-pi> does it have systemd? /NowThatsControversial :-)
[21:21] <awilkins> mtr 4tw
[21:21] <diddledan> mtr is awesome
[21:21] <awilkins> Installed by default... works without root
[21:21] <awilkins> And much faster than normal tracert
[21:22] <diddledan> tracert is windows :-p
[21:22] <awilkins> Yeah
[21:22] <diddledan> we use traceroute :-D
[21:22] <awilkins> One of the few examples of a Windows command that's more terse than Linux
[21:22] <diddledan> it's more memorable, too, oddly - tray cert is how I pronounce it
[21:23] <diddledan> I never think of it as "trace rt"
[21:23]  * awilkins is rsyncing his newly activated Windows 7 VM to his laptop
[21:24] <diddledan> ofc they abbreviated it because they used to insist everything provided by windows is compatible with dos8.3 filenames
[21:24] <awilkins> Thanks to the dude who gave me an ebay link to guys selling WIndows licenses, BTW
[21:24] <diddledan> :-o
[21:24] <awilkins> Got a license for Win 7 pro for £28
[21:24] <awilkins> Real licenses
[21:24] <diddledan> :-o
[21:24] <awilkins> From retired computers
[21:25] <awilkins> £33 minus a £5 voucher that eBay gave me for using Paypal
[21:25] <diddledan> well twist my nipple-nuts and send me to sweden
[21:25] <diddledan> (smth like that)
[21:26] <awilkins> Honestly, just wish I could do my job without it
[21:26] <diddledan> send me to alaska - close
[21:26] <diddledan> thankyou google
[21:27] <diddledan> and it's spin my nipplenuts, not twist
[21:27] <awilkins> But the Boss insists on Word documents and LibreOffice just doesn't cut it, and Markdown --> DOCX via Pandoc is TERRIBLE.
[21:27] <diddledan> ergh
[21:27] <diddledan> that sucks
[21:27] <awilkins> It does
[21:27] <awilkins> To the point where I was entertaining ways of making Word read Markdown last week#]
[21:28] <awilkins> I have a plan, but it's an evil and cunning one
[21:28] <diddledan> ofc now I've put into google the term "nipple nuts" I'm going to get adverts for random sex toys?
[21:28] <awilkins> Make an output formatter for Markdown that spits Javascript that uses COM automation to insert the document into an open Word window
[21:28] <diddledan> haha
[21:28] <awilkins> On the proviso that Word is the only thing that can write Word documents properly
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> about 10 year ago i found using rtf -> doc worked ok ish for varying levels of ish :-)
[21:29] <awilkins> I was told to try plain DOC
[21:29] <awilkins> I may have a go at that
[21:29] <diddledan> hmm, I wonder for your sanity now. COM automation is something that nobody not even microsoft uses
[21:30] <awilkins> Whut? It's used ALL OVER the place.
[21:30] <diddledan> it's evil
[21:30] <awilkins> It's the basis of much of their technology
[21:30] <awilkins> VBA is heavily based on COM
[21:31] <diddledan> VBA. another evil thing
[21:31] <awilkins> A million macros would cry out, and then be suddenly silent if you destroyed it
[21:31] <awilkins> It's not so bad
[21:32] <awilkins> It's when you have to start fiddling with interface GUIDS that it's horrible
[21:32] <awilkins> We had to write build management programs for VB6 in order to deal with it all
[21:32] <awilkins> VB6 "helpfully" protects you from the details
[21:33] <diddledan> I remember writing CGI scripts in VB6
[21:33] <ali1234> awilkins: writing a docx file is actually easy
[21:34] <ali1234> the problems happen when you open an existing one and save it in some other software. that doesn't work so well
[21:34] <ali1234> but making a new one from scratch is very easy
[21:36] <awilkins> ali1234, Well, pandoc does a terrible job of it... or the "basic" document looks terrible
[21:36] <awilkins> And going pandoc -> ODT -> DOCX is pretty horrible too
[21:36] <awilkins> Funny bullets being one of my major problems
[21:37] <awilkins> THey don't match anything in the default templates, so they look totally out of place if you merge my documents with other peoples
[21:37] <diddledan> latex
[21:37] <awilkins> Management hate and fear anything that isn't Word
[21:38] <awilkins> And they distrust PDF because they can't edit it or do Track Changes on it
[21:38] <awilkins> Wikitext???? PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE TO LEARN SKILLS (that are arguably a smaller set than the monkey-tricks you need to learn to get Word to behave itself...)
[21:41] <awilkins> Like : you have a document
[21:41] <awilkins> It consists entirely of a table
[21:41] <awilkins> Now : what do you do to insert a title, above the table?
[21:57] <diddledan> this seems somewhat offensive: http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/88p9oh/the-word---president-barack-obama---to-health-in-a-handbasket
[21:58] <diddledan> I get that they're trying to be funny but it doesn't work
[21:58] <diddledan> (you need to be in the UK to see the message I'm referring)
[22:01] <intrbiz> diddledan: indeed, all too typical American humour
[22:04] <intrbiz> diddledan: I also fail to see what our gracious queen has to do with American companies restricting their audience
[22:04] <diddledan> indeed
[22:15] <diddledan> found the video on a different site: http://www.comedycentral.co.uk/the-colbert-report/videos/barack-obama-hijacks-the-colbert-report