[00:00] <Unit193> Heh, yeah.  And ceni in there at that.
[00:02] <Unit193> ochosi: So, xfwm4 will just be a huge patch atop 4.11.2 or head?
[00:02] <ochosi> i guess head
[00:03] <Unit193> Heh, so that'd be a "yes, just a huge patch atop"
[00:04] <ochosi> yup
[00:04] <ochosi> maybe i'll also try to push something to github or a user-repo on git.xfce if that makes things easier for you
[00:04] <ochosi> packaging-wise
[00:24] <ochosi> Unit193: thanks for the panel, i'll test and then copy tomorrow
[00:24] <ochosi> nighty
[00:25] <Unit193> Sounds fun, g'night.
[09:30] <ochosi> hey elfy 
[09:31] <ochosi> Unit193 was kind enough to package the latest panel with intelligent hiding and i've just installed it locally and tested it out and so far it works as it should
[09:31] <ochosi> so, next i'll copy it over to xubuntu-staging now
[09:32] <ochosi> what versions do you think would be best for testers? generally we have 14.04->15.04
[09:32] <ochosi> so i can also copy all three
[09:40] <knome> just do that :)
[09:45] <ochosi> ok, done
[09:46]  * Unit193 likes to forget about trusty.
[09:46] <knome> hey, many people are still using that!
[09:46] <knome> including me
[09:46] <ochosi> yeah, but even some of our team members are still using trusty
[09:46] <ochosi> hah, there ya go :)
[09:47] <knome> i'll switch at latest when there's only a few months of support for 14.10 left.
[09:47] <Unit193> I have a server, and a non-desktop/desktop system using it, that's it.
[09:47] <knome> Unit193, so two machines.. just as many as i do :P
[09:48] <Unit193> knome: But any system I use with a desktop, or for that matter Xfce, is on utopic. :D
[09:48] <knome> well congrats
[09:49] <Unit193> (And in some aspects, trusty is far better.)
[10:14] <ochosi> Unit193: nice, the panel build really works well with intelligent hiding. thanks for packaging that up!
[10:15] <Unit193> Sure.
[10:51] <ochosi> bbl
[10:59] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, elfy, ochosi and bluesabre I chatted to some of you during UOS and Ubuntu MATE.
[11:00] <ali1234> hi
[11:00] <flexiondotorg> Are any of you available, I have some questions about patching some packages you're maintaing.
[11:00] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Hi
[11:00] <flexiondotorg> Got a few mins?
[11:01] <ali1234> sure
[11:02] <flexiondotorg> Firstly, we chatted about adding indicators to Ubiquity in Xubuntu. Would like like the package list that would need adding to the 'live' seed to achieve this?
[11:03] <flexiondotorg> This should cover it:
[11:03] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-application
[11:03] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-keyboard
[11:03] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-power
[11:03] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-session
[11:03] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-sound
[11:03] <ali1234> is that all you have to do, just add them to the seed?
[11:04] <flexiondotorg> Providing you are using ubiquity-frontend-gtk, Yes.
[11:04] <flexiondotorg> Ubiquity DM basically implements the indicator handler.
[11:04] <ali1234> yes, so does lightdm
[11:05] <flexiondotorg> Now, one of those segfaults on Ubuntu MATE.
[11:05] <ali1234> or lightdm-gtk-greeter
[11:05] <flexiondotorg> I'll just find the bug report so if you have the same issue in Xubuntu you can add to it.
[11:07] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1369958
[11:07] <Unit193> We seed -application and -sound.
[11:08] <flexiondotorg> Unit193, If you let the Xubuntu iso boot to Ubiquity, there are no indicators. Meaning that configuring network, and a11y is not possible.
[11:09] <flexiondotorg> The packages I listed above, should be included in the 'live' seed to expose this functionality in the installer.
[11:09] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Do have any questions about that? Can I move on to the next topic?
[11:09] <ali1234> i don't know anything about making livecds anyway
[11:10] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Well all that is required is to add those packages to the live seed. The build tools will take care of the rest.
[11:12] <flexiondotorg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.vivid/view/head:/live
[11:12] <Unit193> I wouldn't add all of those though, and as I said, -sound and -application are in 'desktop', so when you boot into the live session they are installed (and running).  Not sure how ubiquity interacts with them at all though.
[11:13] <Unit193> live == stuff only installed in the live session.
[11:13] <flexiondotorg> Unit193, In which case you'd only require:
[11:13] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-keyboard
[11:13] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-power
[11:13] <flexiondotorg>  * indicator-session
[11:13] <flexiondotorg> Adding to 'live'
[11:14] <flexiondotorg> You might also require indicator-network if that is not already in desktop or core.
[11:14] <flexiondotorg> Ubiquity fully supports indicators, see the stock Ubuntu installer for reference.
[11:15] <ali1234> what does the ubuntu desktop seed do?
[11:16] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I have some patches for indicator-sound-gtk2 and indicator-application-gtk2
[11:17] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Would you be able to merge them and release new packages vivid? I think you said you were a maintainer of those packages?
[11:17] <ali1234> no, i said those packages have no maintainer
[11:17] <ali1234> nobody else is using them
[11:18] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, OK. Can you suggest how I might get those packages patched?
[11:18] <ali1234> open a merge request on launchpad and then annoy the people in #ubuntu-desktop until they merge it
[11:19] <ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.vivid/view/head:/live
[11:19] <ali1234> this doesn't seem to include any indicator stuff?
[11:19] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I can't open a merge request. It says I don't have permission.
[11:20] <flexiondotorg> I created this bug and attached the patch
[11:20] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound-gtk2/+bug/1337241
[11:20] <ali1234> i can turn that into a MR if you want
[11:20] <ali1234> you do have permission though, anyone does
[11:21] <ali1234> according to launchpad you need to annoy micahg
[11:21] <ali1234> and gilir
[11:24] <ali1234> and maybe mr_pouit
[11:26] <ali1234> i'm actually not sure if you want to make a MR against the upstream or the ubuntu package
[11:27] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, What do you suggest?
[11:27] <ali1234> find the last person who changed either and ask them
[11:27] <flexiondotorg> Ask them what? 
[11:28] <ali1234> how best to apply your patches
[11:28] <flexiondotorg> OK
[11:29] <flexiondotorg> Thanks.
[11:29] <ali1234> unfortunately it looks like the last person was me
[11:29] <knome> aaaand we have a winner!
[11:30] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I though so 😉
[11:30] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Can you help then 😁
[11:30] <ali1234> sponsored by bdmurray but that doesn't mean much
[11:31] <flexiondotorg> I'll see if I can create a MR for both.
[11:31] <davmor2> ali1234: wompwompwomp.com
[11:31] <ali1234> well the thing is the MR would be very different for the package vs upstream
[11:32] <ali1234> but it looks like upstream is not getting synced any more into the distro
[11:32] <ali1234> so looks like you'll need to do it against each package
[11:33] <ali1234> for that you'll want to make a debdiff and... i forget
[11:34] <ali1234> have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound-gtk2/+bug/1208204
[11:35] <ali1234> that was done as a debdiff
[11:35] <ali1234> but mainly because it had to be SRU'd
[11:36] <ali1234> doing it this way will probably be best since upstreaming the patch would mean re-syncing all the patches in the package
[11:36] <ali1234> and that sounds like a lot of work that nobody wants to do
[11:40] <ali1234> if you post a debdiff on your bug it will auto subscribe the right people i think
[11:54] <slickymasterWork> jjfrv8, thanks for the fabulous work on http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/1.4/start
[12:12] <ochosi> flexiondotorg: actually we don't have a panel in the ubiquity live session, so no i've no idea where they should show up if we add them to the seed
[12:12] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, There is a panel, it is just empty.
[12:12] <ochosi> i guess the first step would be to add the xfce4-panel to the ubiquity session somehow and then make the indicators show up there...
[12:13] <ochosi> if there is, i've never seen it though
[12:13] <ochosi> or is it something ubiquity specific?
[12:16] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, Yes, it is part of Ubiquity
[12:16] <flexiondotorg> I'll post a screenshot...
[12:17] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, OK, appologies.
[12:17] <flexiondotorg> There is not panel in Xubuntu 14.04 Ubiquity.
[12:18] <flexiondotorg> Odd, because while I was making Ubuntu MATE I had an empty panel displayed in Ubiquity.
[12:18] <ochosi> interesting
[12:18] <ochosi> i mean in general it sounds like a good idea to show a panel there with the indicators
[12:18] <flexiondotorg> Theme related?
[12:18] <ochosi> nah, that has nothing to do with themes at all
[12:18] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, The reason I added the indicators was to expose the a11y features.
[12:18] <flexiondotorg> And configure the network.
[12:18] <ochosi> but there are e.g. notifications about available wifis but there's no way to connect to them, so that blows a bit :)
[12:19] <ochosi> yeah, makes sense to me
[12:20] <ochosi> i just have no idea how to show our panel there yet
[12:20] <ochosi> just adding the indicators alone will not suffice i suppose
[12:23] <ochosi> but frankly, i don't know enough about the ubiquity session
[13:01] <elfy> ochosi: ack re panle
[13:01] <elfy> which is like panel :p
[13:01] <Unit193> Only more le.
[13:03] <ochosi> elfy: thanks.
[13:04] <ochosi> as soon as you've sent out the announcement i'll forward it to g+
[13:06] <elfy> ochosi: cool - just saw it in ppa - as soon as I've successfully upgraded to it then I'll post 
[13:07] <ochosi> ty
[13:08] <elfy> ochosi: just so I am completely sure - the plan is to test this and then get it in properly to default xubuntu?
[13:09] <ochosi> elfy: the idea is to test it and if it works ok, i'll ask andrzejr to do a panel development release, which will in turn end up in xubuntu
[13:09] <ochosi> so yeah, what you said, but with one or two corners more
[13:09] <elfy> one more question - how do we want people to report bugs? because apport obviously throws a fit with ppa's
[13:09] <elfy> ochosi: okey doke 
[13:09] <ochosi> ideally, they would report bugs upstream
[13:09] <ochosi> i hope there won't be bugs though :]
[13:09] <ochosi> (but usually there always are)
[13:09] <elfy> ok - I guessed as much - just making sure 
[13:10] <elfy> ha ha yea :)
[13:10] <ochosi> adding "intelligent hiding" to the bug title will help
[13:10] <elfy> ok 
[13:10] <ochosi> and even replying to the thread on our ml with a link to the bugreport/s would be fair
[13:10] <elfy> yep
[13:10] <ochosi> just to make sure, the reports are visible enough
[13:10] <ochosi> -,
[13:25] <jjfrv8> slickymasterWork, I didn't mean to hog the whole thing, but there just didn't seem to be enough there to split up :)
[13:26] <jjfrv8> ochosi, elfy, I got the panel update and will test. OK so far.
[13:27] <ochosi> jjfrv8: i guess you've set the panel to intelligent hiding already?
[13:27] <jjfrv8> yup
[13:27] <Unit193> ochosi: Full testcase, regression tests, and possible bug triggering?
[13:28] <ochosi> not sure a testcase makes sense, i guess it'll be more exploratory testing in everyday situations
[13:28] <ochosi> in terms of testcase, i've pretty much gone through it with andrzejr
[13:29] <ochosi> but yeah, if there are bugs or things that don't work (e.g. plugins that make the panel hide, like datetime used to before i fixed it), that'd be good to know
[13:29] <ochosi> for now i hope that it'll be the plugins' fault
[13:33] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I notice that switching to an open terminal window, even if it's not maximized, brings the panel back. Is that normal?
[13:33] <ochosi> the concept of intelligent hiding means that the panel shows up when the focused window doesn't overlap (i.e. in terms of position or in terms of being maximized)
[13:35] <jjfrv8> ah yes, I see now. (and you had already explained that before. my bad :(
[13:38] <ochosi> no worries
[13:38] <ochosi> could be that we also have to clarify that in the call for testing, in order not to get invalid bugreports
[13:39] <Unit193> I thought "intelligent hiding" was it only pops up when you don't want it, and can't find it when you do. :(
[13:41] <ochosi> that sounds more like silly hiding
[13:41] <Unit193> Had a program that made the Windows start button do that once...
[14:29] <sidi> ochosi, i feel you have a burning need to not talk about xfpm versioning :-P
[14:30] <ochosi> sidi: well it's simply grown historically to what it is today and we've just continued with the existing direction/tradition is all
[14:30] <sidi> oops i wrote on #xub
[14:30] <ochosi> that not being consistent with -core is simply a pointless discussion, was all i was trying to point out
[14:30] <ochosi> yeah, that too :)
[14:31] <sidi> ochosi, :-)
[15:10] <slickymasterWork> np jjfrv8 
[15:19] <Unit193> Well if there's nothing else on the agenda, could see if the ppas are working correctly, or see if $foo is working correctly.
[15:19] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, feel free to add that to the agenda though
[16:25] <etwarrior> elfy, or anybody for that matter... I know I've briefly mentioned I'm interested in helping with developing, not only to translate for French, but I'd like to even perhaps help in testing of Xubuntu on my old Windows XP machine?
[16:25] <etwarrior> Perhaps... we'll see.
[16:26] <etwarrior> I was sent by GridCube .
[16:26] <GridCube> :)
[16:26] <etwarrior> I know I'd love to translate.
[16:26] <etwarrior> But my French isn't spot-on.
[16:26] <etwarrior> But I can try.
[16:26] <GridCube> i think slickymasterWork was the one coordinating translation efforts
[16:27] <ochosi> tbh i'm not sure translating to a language that you have the feeling is not "spot on" is a good idea
[16:27] <ochosi> might end up in misleading translations, which might be worse than no translation at all in some cases
[16:27] <ochosi> (as a word of caution ^ )
[16:28] <etwarrior> Okay, but I do understand how the grammar works of the language, and stuff like that.
[16:28] <GridCube> etwarrior: mister ochosi here is the xubuntu's  development team leader :D
[16:28] <etwarrior> The adjective always comes after the noun.
[16:28] <etwarrior> Oh yes, we've met before... :~)
[16:28] <ochosi> GridCube: actually i'm only the XPL, bluesabre is the development lead ;)
[16:28] <slickymasterWork> etwarrior, even though our goal is to have all the idioms translated, but not at any price 
[16:28] <GridCube> P: oh right
[16:28] <slickymasterWork> hey ochosi, GridCube 
[16:32] <etwarrior> slickymasterWork, understandable.
[16:32] <slickymasterWork> etwarrior, with that aim in mind and with the goal of providing a perfect Xubuntu experience in other native languages, we do ask that any translation effort should only be addressed by someone that holds a full dominion of the language in question 
[16:32] <etwarrior> I need to wait a few days before I sign up on your ubuntuone page, I'm switching Email providers... I should be all good to go this upcoming Sunday.
[16:33] <etwarrior> My current email provider (hushmail) only allows 25MB for the free version... and though it's supposedly private, I've heard that hushmail leaked it's user's data in the past... I'm switching to another more on the private side email firm, with a bit more free-space included for the free version, supposedly I'm supposed to get 5GB of space, which should really help.
[16:34] <slickymasterWork> in any case etwarrior, every help is welcome
[16:34] <etwarrior> Thank you.
[16:35] <slickymasterWork> and regarding Xubuntu documentation at large, you can also branch it for proof-reading spelling and grammar, checking consistency of formatting, checking consistency of language and style or writing glossary entries and adding entries to the index
[16:35] <slickymasterWork> I mean branch the xubuntu documentation package 
[16:36] <slickymasterWork> if you think you'll need some help with, please fell free to ping at any time
[16:37] <etwarrior> Thanks.
[16:37] <etwarrior> Proof-read in English, or French, or bot?
[16:37] <etwarrior> both*
[16:38] <slickymasterWork> in we feel comfortable with both idioms, of course 
[16:40] <slickymasterWork> even though if you'll think that something should/ought be corrected in the French translation, the only way will be able to corrected will be by proposing a new translations to the string(s)
[16:40] <slickymasterWork> s/ in we/if you
[16:42] <etwarrior> I see.
[16:43] <slickymasterWork> I'm not sure whether you check it or not, but you could have a read at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/support_documentation/
[16:44] <elfy> image testing is easy enough - test dailies in a vm if you can't do hardware, test milestones when we call for them http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[16:55] <elfy> ochosi: I guess there's no way for someone to only test panel for intellihide without testing all the other packages, without enabling the staging ppa to upgrade panel on it's own then disabling it
[16:55] <elfy> I can't think of another simple method
[17:02] <brainwash> download the packages manually from the launchpad site
[17:04] <elfy> that isn't going to require a whole bunch of instructions for people testing
[17:06] <elfy> I've never bothered trying to download single packages from a PPA tbh 
[17:09] <elfy> ochosi: alternatively we assume that people testing have enough knowledge to deal with a ppa with different packages and decide for themselves what to use
[18:31] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, ochosi I am making some change to Ubiquity.
[18:31] <flexiondotorg> ubiquity-dm expressly disables it's panel when xfwm4 is detected.
[18:32] <flexiondotorg> if (os.path.exists('/usr/lib/ubiquity/panel') and
[18:32] <flexiondotorg>                     "xfwm4" not in wm_cmd):
[18:32] <flexiondotorg> That is why no Ubiquity panel in Xubuntu I think.
[18:33] <ali1234> isn't that for when you install from the live desktop?
[18:33] <flexiondotorg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L500
[18:34] <flexiondotorg> Yes, the Ubiquity panel is displayed if you don't interrupt the boot process. You get to the "Install Xubuntu" "Try Xubuntu" graphical menu.
[18:34] <flexiondotorg> The Ubiquity panel is displayed on the top, similar to LightDM.
[18:34] <ali1234> and if you select "install xubuntu"?
[18:35] <flexiondotorg> If you do that ^^^^^ Ubquity remains and so does the panel.
[18:35] <ali1234> right
[18:35] <ali1234> and if you select "try xubuntu" you get the xubuntu desktop, which has indicators
[18:36] <flexiondotorg> Also, I see xfwm4 disables compositing in the Ubiquity display manager. Compositing is required for the indicators to render correctly.
[18:36] <ali1234> i don't understand
[18:36] <ali1234> if xfwm is running you are on the desktop
[18:37] <ali1234> then you get indicators via xfce4-panel
[18:37] <flexiondotorg> No.
[18:37] <flexiondotorg> Ubiquity has a display manager, ubiquity-dm.
[18:37] <flexiondotorg> It launches a window manager.
[18:37] <flexiondotorg> It search the file system for compatible window managers.
[18:40] <ali1234> why aren't the indicators in the seed for ubuntu?
[18:40] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I think they are pulled in by other packages.
[18:41] <flexiondotorg> I have to disable recommended packages in the Ubuntu MATE seeds otherwise I end up with most of GNOME3 and Unity.
[18:41] <ali1234> ah
[18:41] <flexiondotorg> Off, for a run. I'll be back later if you have questions.
[20:20] <brainwash> elfy: your screenshot confuses me now http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-081214-170915.php
[20:21] <brainwash> it shows the minimize and maximize button
[20:21] <brainwash> here the "try and install" window started from desktop does show minimize and close
[20:21] <elfy> I'd hope so too - I'd really hate for my vbox to not have those :p
[20:22] <brainwash> "try or install"
[20:22] <brainwash> is the "where are you?" window different?
[20:22] <elfy> no idea - I don't often look at the install window - we don't test that
[20:23] <elfy> [17:25] <elfy> actually - only where are you/kbd layout and who are you have max button
[20:24] <elfy> in try 
[20:24] <brainwash> a max button instead of a close button
[20:24] <brainwash> ok
[20:25] <brainwash> now we need to know if one can actually maximize that window :)
[20:25] <elfy> you can't 
[20:25] <elfy> as the bug says - it's pretty much useless
[20:25] <elfy> and I really don't have much interest in this rather minor thing either tbh :)
[20:26] <brainwash> I know, and it should not be there, but the fix seems to be incomplete
[20:27] <brainwash> I am curious about this, because I thought that my patch works in general
[20:27] <brainwash> but ubiquity is doing something special
[20:28] <elfy> I guess so - I understand you've got an interest :D
[20:29] <brainwash> 15.04 seems somewhat strange, now I also see the scramble background picture on second login
[20:29] <brainwash> the first login is smooth
[20:29] <elfy> nouveau?
[20:30] <brainwash> no..... radeon
[20:30] <elfy> restart or shutdown? 
[20:30] <brainwash> login -> desktop
[20:30] <elfy> no idea about radeon - but open source driver rather than ati?
[20:30] <brainwash> yes, the open source radeon driver
[20:31] <brainwash> that's the odd thing
[20:31] <elfy> brainwash: you'll possibly see the same corruption on restart too 
[20:31] <brainwash> 15.04 has some weird bugs and regressions
[20:32] <brainwash> mainly hardware/driver
[20:32] <elfy> all works much the same for me as 14.10 
[20:35] <brainwash> I'll keep on testing
[20:37] <brainwash> I've triggered apport few times already, but it does not seem send any reports (or at least open the web browser and let me file the report)
[20:37] <elfy> mmm
[20:37] <brainwash> can you confirm this?
[20:37] <elfy> not sure it's turned on properly tbh 
[20:38] <elfy> I edited /etc/apport/crashdb.conf 
[20:38] <elfy>         'problem_types': ['Bug', 'Package', 'Crash'],
[20:38] <elfy> added Crash there
[20:38] <brainwash> I'll try that, thanks
[20:59] <ochosi> flexiondotorg: no idea why the panel is disabled, maybe there were/are reasons, best way would to try i guess...
[21:05] <flexiondotorg> ochosi, Well I've passed on what I know. You can test stuff out and refine your setup from here 😃
[21:12] <ochosi> sure thanks
[21:12] <elfy> ochosi: thanks for meeting at a time I can make it :)
[21:18] <brainwash> flexiondotorg: why is the panel needed?
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> brainwash, The Ubiquity panel will auto load a number of indicators.
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> So, the reason for the Ubiquity panel is to expose indicators that enable a11y, network configuration etc.
[21:21] <brainwash> ubiquity is strange.. are you maintaining it?
[21:23] <brainwash> currently the panel is missing, the background is black and some windows have an unneeded maximize button.. oh boy
[21:23] <brainwash> xubuntu related issues ^
[21:24] <flexiondotorg> brainwash, No, I'm the Ubuntu MATE maintainer.
[21:24] <flexiondotorg> Not an Ubuntu/Canonical staffer.
[21:24] <flexiondotorg> So, I've been patching Ubiquity to support MATE and marco (MATE window manager).
[21:25] <brainwash> ah, I've installed MATE today for the first time
[21:25] <flexiondotorg> I'm also on the upstream MATE team.
[21:25] <brainwash> on top of my xubuntu test installation
[21:25] <brainwash> that's awesome
[21:25] <flexiondotorg> brainwash, It works 😃
[21:25] <flexiondotorg> I'm also an Arch Linux dev.
[21:25] <flexiondotorg> Not sure, how I got talked into making an Ubuntu distro exactly.
[21:25] <brainwash> changing the theme in MATE required a relog, is this expected?
[21:26] <flexiondotorg> MATE theme change should be dynamic. Except for some system tray icons.
[21:26] <flexiondotorg> That bug is being worked on currently.
[21:26] <ali1234> xfce4-panel had that problem too
[21:26] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, If you have any tips, much welcome 😃
[21:26] <ali1234> i dunno, i didn't fix it
[21:26] <brainwash> well, nothing changed until I relog, so something is missing here
[21:27] <ali1234> don't know if it is even fixed
[21:27] <ali1234> i think we made the icons have a transparent background always
[21:27] <ali1234> so even though they don't update, it doesn't matter
[21:27] <ali1234> i've been helping people report bugs against mate too
[21:28] <ali1234> seen some theme issues with chrome, and that's when i saw the panel thing
[21:28] <brainwash> does MATE load indicators?
[21:28] <ali1234> yes but only gtk2 ones
[21:28] <brainwash> like xubuntu does
[21:28] <brainwash> ah, that's why I did not see any
[21:29] <ali1234> probably
[21:29] <ali1234> are you using the ppa?
[21:29] <ali1234> because mate in the repos is broken
[21:29] <brainwash> no, 15.05
[21:29] <brainwash> 15.04
[21:29] <ali1234> i don't know the status of that
[21:29] <brainwash> I'll add the PPA then
[21:29] <ali1234> not sure about the status of the ppa with +1 either
[21:34] <flexiondotorg> brainwash, Ubuntu MATE will load indicators using the old indicator-application-gtk2 package.
[21:34] <flexiondotorg> I pushed some MRs today that add the required patches.
[21:35] <flexiondotorg> Within Ubiquity, I make sure the various indicators are installed so that ubiquity-dm can load them.
[21:35] <ali1234> indicator-application is just one indicator
[21:36] <ali1234> sound is the only other one that has gtk2
[21:36] <flexiondotorg> indication-sound-gtk2 is the other and indicator-application-gtk2 in combination with mate-indicator-applet can wrap other indicators.
[21:36] <ali1234> no, it can't
[21:37] <ali1234> indicator-application isn't lower in the stack
[21:37] <ali1234> it's a simplified api for systray style icons
[21:38] <ali1234> so for example indicator-application-gtk2 will not help you to display indicator-messages
[21:40] <brainwash> flexiondotorg: how do you test ubiquity? can you start it inside a desktop environment?
[21:41] <flexiondotorg> I've never done that. I have my own iso building scripts that (largely) mimic the official Canonical infrastructure.
[21:41] <flexiondotorg> I use those to test stuff, since I can bind PPAs to the build.
[21:42] <brainwash> I see
[21:42] <brainwash> it seems like I cannot start it stand alone here
[21:42] <flexiondotorg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity <--- See the bottom on of the page
[21:43] <brainwash> so I'll use live iso + live mode to test code changes
[21:44] <brainwash> that's helpful also
[21:46] <flexiondotorg> ubiquity-dm is just a python script so you could edit it in the live session.
[23:06] <Unit193> Hey, so how does one start up maybe-ubiquity after booting with the  text  option?
[23:31] <Unit193> brainwash: THere?
[23:42] <ochosi> brainwash: i wonder whether that is actually a ubiquity bug (the maximise button)