[00:01] <ali1234> well, okay, thevery first thing you should do is try to reproduce the bug yourself. if you can't do that you can't fix it
[00:01] <ali1234> the next step is to install all the software you need in order to fix it
[00:02] <elfy> knome: would be fairly good to catch sight of it again :)
[00:02] <elfy> just for Justin ofc :)
[00:04] <matte88> so I should just edit a file and revert it in mousepad?
[00:04] <knome> elfy, heh, yep
[00:05] <ali1234> matte88: yes, but it has to be one you opened, not one you created then saved, due to another bug i just found
[00:06] <ali1234> you can create, save, quit, open, edit, revert
[00:06] <elfy> knome: :)
[00:06] <matte88> ok, a file which already exists
[00:07] <elfy> knome: no real reason to not get that out to bed I guess
[00:08] <elfy> another day though 
[00:10] <matte88> ok, I'll try it later on my pc
[00:10] <matte88> after that what kind of software do I need to install?
[00:11] <ali1234> you'll need git, build-essential, and the dependencies of mousepad
[00:12] <ali1234> and you'll need to clone the upstream source of mousepad
[00:14] <ali1234> plus your text editor of choice
[00:14] <matte88> I see..aside from this technical stuff, how are you organized? I mean, i read before that there are different teams
[00:15] <ali1234> there are a bunch of different teams in xubuntu, but upstream development is more adhoc
[00:15] <knome> matte88, the teams in xubuntu are very loosely organized too
[00:15] <knome> basically people who are interested about a thing (say artwork) are called that team..
[00:15] <ali1234> don't worry about organization, just send patches
[00:15] <knome> yeah.
[00:16] <matte88> I see
[00:16] <knome> xubuntu is a smallish team whatsoever
[00:16] <matte88> ahahaah I can't wait to be honest
[00:16] <ali1234> (i'll cover how to send patches after we find the bug)
[00:22] <matte88> perfect
[00:23] <ali1234> i'm writing this up as a guide
[00:26] <matte88> awesome!
[00:26] <matte88> where will you put it?
[00:27] <ali1234> probably on my blog which i never put anything on
[00:32] <knome> ali1234, could also publish it on xubuntu.org,
[00:33] <brainwash> and/or xfce.org
[00:34] <matte88> great
[00:40] <ali1234> pad.ubuntu.org
[00:40] <ali1234> oops :)
[00:49] <ali1234> http://pad.ubuntu.com/NAYlTHW4ZR is what i've got so far
[00:50] <knome> nighty, see you all later
[01:51] <anolis> 'Evening yall
[10:59] <brainwash> elfy: I've removed the config folder before launching abiword
[10:59] <brainwash> it's a normal installation: not virtual, no live mode
[11:01] <elfy> so is this one - I can reproduce that issue every time here
[11:01] <elfy> brainwash: you've got a real vivid install ? \o/ 
[11:02] <brainwash> yea
[11:03] <brainwash> enabling crash data collection in apport helps a lot I think
[11:03] <brainwash> bug 1401609
[11:04] <brainwash> opened it randomly, closed it and... crash
[11:05] <brainwash> would it help to advice testers to add 'crash' to the apport config?
[11:07] <brainwash> maybe it's not, because hardly anyone actually looks at these crash reports
[11:13] <elfy> brainwash: booted live session, made sure there was no .config/abiword - started abiword, hit space 22 time - I know that because the top instance is Untitled22 ;)
[11:16] <brainwash> elfy: do you type or press any keys before abiword is fully loaded?
[11:18] <elfy> nope 
[11:18] <brainwash> the obvious fix is to replace abiword with libreoffice writer :)
[11:18] <elfy> yea :)
[11:21] <brainwash> I'll load the guest session and test it again
[11:21] <elfy> just as well lose gnumeric at that point :p
[11:21] <elfy> oops - best have lo calc too then 
[11:21] <elfy> I wonder why I can reproduce this here till the cows come home and you can't 
[11:22] <brainwash> abiword in guest session works fine too
[11:22] <elfy> delete .config/abiword and try again
[11:22] <brainwash> the guest session has no greeter wallpaper, it shows a plain black background. is this ok?
[11:23] <ochosi> should show the default wallpaper
[11:23] <brainwash> the guest session has a clean config folder
[11:23] <elfy> no idea - never use guest sessions 
[11:23] <ochosi> but if you're e.g. using nouveau drivers, the wallpaper might still be messed up
[11:23] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[11:23] <ochosi> heya elfy 
[11:23] <brainwash> it's not messed up, just missing
[11:24] <ochosi> right, not sure what's up there tbh
[11:24] <ochosi> when logging in there's the default wallpaper though, right?
[11:24] <brainwash> yes
[11:24]  * ochosi shrugs
[11:25] <ochosi> maybe something with accountsservice not working correctly with the guest session
[11:25] <brainwash> gtk-greeter has changed a bit in the last few months, code wise
[11:25] <ochosi> i guess "a bit" would be an understatement
[11:25] <brainwash> but it's no a valid user
[11:25] <brainwash> heh :D
[11:26] <ochosi> but yeah, there are several more branches pending, so i suggest we wait until those have landed and if there are still problems, we can investigate
[11:26] <ochosi> although even then, it's not very high on my list tbh
[11:26] <brainwash> right, I'll file a report
[11:26] <ochosi> i'd rather get other stuff done
[11:26] <brainwash> no.. but I randomly discover these little bugs
[11:29] <elfy> ochosi: not sure how long you want me to be looking at this tiling update - not something I would choose to use, so sooner the better :p
[11:30] <ochosi> elfy: as there shouldn't be any regressions (ideally and as far as i can tell) just keep using it, you don't have to pay special attention to it
[11:30] <ochosi> if you feel the tiling isn't useful to you, feel free not to use it since you've already tested it for a bit
[11:31] <ochosi> i'd still wanna wait a bit longer until sending out the testing call, also wanna clarify some stuff with cedric on the weekend (author of the branch)
[11:32] <elfy> ok - thanks boss :p 
[13:42] <jjfrv8> elfy, I just noticed something about the abiword thing. It seems to depend on the position of the mouse cursor - at least on my two existing installations.
[13:42] <jjfrv8> when I first launch abiword, it opens unmaximized and, if my mouse cursor is not in the window, I get the bug.
[13:42] <jjfrv8> as windows keep opening on pressing space, eventually I might get a window where the mouse cursor happens to be positioned in the body of the message... and then typing starts working normally
[13:42] <jjfrv8> this seems to be the case whether or not the .config folder exists
[13:44] <elfy>  yep - see the same 
[13:45] <elfy> bizarre 
[13:47] <jjfrv8> I can add a comment to the bugs later, gotta run now.
[13:50] <ObrienDave> could it have something to do with 'focus' stealing prevention?
[13:55] <brainwash> ObrienDave: is it enabled by default?
[13:56] <ObrienDave> no, i have all of that stuff enabled and i see similar behavior with abiword
[13:57] <brainwash> we mostly tested it in a fresh environment, so it wasn't enabled I guess
[15:33] <ali1234> okay i finally fixed that gnome-system-tools so it installs nt with packagekit
[15:33] <ali1234> it's a big copy-paste job
[16:23] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1270090
[16:23] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/ubuntu/gst-packagekit
[16:24] <ochosi> oh, when reading that last URL i first read "gstreamer"
[16:24] <ochosi> would have been nice too, installing gst-plugins via packagekit...
[16:24] <ali1234> yes, sorry
[16:24] <ali1234> doesn't it already do that?
[16:24] <ochosi> not really
[16:24] <ali1234> i can't rename the ppa now anyway
[16:24] <ali1234> well, it's very easy to do
[16:24] <ali1234> this took me like half an hour
[16:25] <ochosi> last time i checked it just shipped a dumb script that installs plugins (and almost always fails, as you can see in parole)
[16:25] <ali1234> yeah, i just use mpv because of this
[16:25] <ochosi> understandable
[16:26] <ochosi> thing is, neither of us (parole maintainers) has any packagekit experience, so it's stuck on our roadmap for a while already
[16:26] <ali1234> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/PackageKit/pk-faq.html#session-methods
[16:26] <ali1234> check the C example, it's really simple
[16:27] <ochosi> yeah, i guess the problem with gst-plugins is that their package-names might differ depending on the distro
[16:27] <ali1234> yeah
[16:28] <ochosi> that was the issue the script tried to "work around" by being maintained by distributors
[16:28] <ali1234> this gnome-system-tools stuff is an ubuntu patch anyway
[16:29] <ochosi> yeah
[16:29] <ochosi> i guess we'd need distributor-specific patches for parole and packagekit
[16:29] <ochosi> -> not cool
[16:29] <ali1234> you won't need to patch packagekit
[16:30] <ochosi> yeah, but we need to have the right plugin-names per distributor
[16:30] <ali1234> ah, for upstream yes
[16:30] <ali1234> however you can ask packagekit which distro you are on
[16:30] <ochosi> yup, i was thinking upstream
[16:31] <ochosi> oh, hm, that could work/help
[16:31] <ali1234> anyway this bug now needs a packaging person to look at my debdiff and do it properly
[16:33] <ochosi> ali1234: one from u-desktop or from us?
[16:33] <ali1234> either. ubutu-sponsors has been auto-subscribed
[16:34] <ochosi> oh, good
[16:34] <ali1234> i never know if i'm doing packaging things right
[16:34] <ali1234> i can just about use quilt
[16:34] <ali1234> it seems to work anyway
[16:57] <brainwash> ali1234: any idea what MATE is doing?
[16:57] <ali1234> about what?
[16:57] <brainwash> with their mate-system-tools
[16:58] <ali1234> oh, no
[16:58] <ali1234> upstream gnome-system-tools does not attempt to install anything itself
[16:58] <brainwash> the plan was to switch to their fork of gst
[16:59] <brainwash> the upstream one is the simplified gtk3 one
[16:59] <brainwash> which heavily depends on gnome3, right?
[16:59] <ali1234> the upstream one has never done it
[16:59] <ali1234> even when it was gtk2
[16:59] <ali1234> the installer stuff is entirely added by ubuntu
[17:00] <ali1234> so it won't be in mate
[17:00] <brainwash> why not simply drop the ubuntu patch then?
[17:00] <ali1234> because it's easy to fix?
[17:01] <brainwash> took you 9 months :P
[17:01] <brainwash> so mmh, if we switch to mate-system-tools, then it won't have the installer code
[17:01] <ali1234> right
[17:02] <ali1234> unless someone sends this patch to mate
[17:02] <ali1234> or the mate package in ubuntu
[17:02] <brainwash> I assume that we are the last ones who still install gnome-system-tools
[17:02] <ali1234> probably
[17:04] <brainwash> "mate-system-tools will be removed in 1.10"
[17:04] <brainwash> ?!
[17:04] <brainwash> according to the github issue tracker