[00:00] <grendal_prime> ya i know..but its easy to fix that stuf
[00:00] <bekks> grendal_prime: Dont use webmin ;)
[00:01] <kasad> ramen
[00:01] <grendal_prime> well..the problem is..i have over 10 filers that use it.  I have trained several clients on user manage ment.  And it handles openvpn instalations and user management really well.
[00:02] <grendal_prime> can you recommend something else bekks?
[00:04] <kasad> !vesta
[00:04] <kasad> !vesta | grendal_prime
[00:05] <kasad> no vesta :P
[00:05] <kasad> !VestaCP
[00:05] <grendal_prime> zyntal i think may be good as well.
[00:05] <kasad> !Ajenti
[00:06] <kasad> didn't touch either
[00:06] <kasad> tbh
[00:07] <kasad> while we are at it
[00:09] <kasad> what would you guys recommend as alternative to grendal_prime (and me as well, when I virtualize this plesk hell, I stlil want some automation, I am not like my friend who is like "You have shell, suck it up"
[00:09] <bekks> grendal_prime: I suggest on of the various non-breaking management tools, like cPanel, ISPconfig, Ajenti, Kloxo, OpenPanel, ZPanel, EHCP, ispCP, VHCS, RavenCore, et al
[00:10] <kasad> i have aversion towards ISPconfig,tho, I don't know how much it advanced in last 3-4 years
[00:10] <grendal_prime> Most of the "panels" ive tried are more geared to like isp hosting or something specific.
[00:11]  * kasad nods
[00:11] <grendal_prime> i want something more systemwide.  zentyal seems to do most of what i want.
[00:11] <bekks> grendal_prime: At least use a supported successor of webmin, like VirtualMin.
[00:12] <bekks> Or Zentyal.
[00:12] <grendal_prime> but, the strange part about that is when trying it out it had the exact same issue that webmin was experiencing.
[00:13] <kasad> isn't virutalmin module for webmin
[00:14] <grendal_prime> one of the reasons i want the ldap server configured is because most of the configurations that my clients use the webmin for is user management. then i could stear clear of setting up any management on the other servers.
[00:14] <grendal_prime> so like im going to start switching things over to alfresco as the filers im going to install.  That system does documanagement along with samba integration..pretty badd ass actually
[00:15] <bekks> kasad: Virtualmin started as a module for webmin, but is a separate "tool" nowadays.
[00:15] <grendal_prime> i didnt realize that
[00:18] <grendal_prime> why is it when you log into http://virtualmin-demo.virtualmin.com/  it says you are logging into webmin?
[00:19] <bekks> Ask them, I did not setup that site.
[00:29] <keithzg> The installer for Virtualmin appears to require webmin, so . . .
 isn't virutalmin module for webmin
[00:34] <kasad> so you lost me earlier
[00:36] <keithzg> I'm not sure it's *only* a module for webmin, the virtualmin site mentions that that's one way to get virtualmin, but the other option appears to be to use their install script. But that script installs (at least a bunch of parts of) webmin as well.
[00:36] <kasad> ahh
[00:37] <kasad> 1:37
[00:37] <kasad> almost leet
[00:37] <kasad> 01:37:33
[00:37] <kasad> 01:37:37
[00:37] <keithzg> 17:37 over on my end here
[00:38] <kasad> or "letet" which means to fly in my mother tongue
[00:38] <kasad> actually leteti, but letet' is accepted as shorter form.
[00:40] <kasad> since it's Friday, and we are mostly idling, no much activity. I know this has nothing to do with Ubuntu, but I find people who talked here so far to be pretty smartastic, so I'll just throw this question/idea/brainfart out there
[00:42] <kasad>  before my current a bit over two years stretch of "working in IT sector" as they call it here, where I wasn't doing lots of web, and over 3 years before that of me being too ill rise out of bed
[00:42] <kasad> I was quite a CMS Nazi
[00:43] <kasad> I was like JoomlaMOomla, die in a fire, if it ain't propriteary and you are doing commercial stuff/business with it
[00:43] <kasad> you suck and are cheap
[00:47] <kasad> so, naturally I first wrote, then oversaw development of intra/inter-net CMS/IMS/insert ziliion other modules here system for  ex-ex-ex-ex company I worked for about 4 years, before I got ill (due to my immune system dying becaue of constantly pulling 20-25-30 hours "allnighters" or twodayers as I call them) (record stands at 39 hours, bio-breaks only, during severe DDOS attack that
[00:47] <kasad> wasn't even targeted at us, but at datacentres that we had servers which were crucial at the time for current deals
[00:48] <kasad> and now I do have software that was last updated in like 2008, but whole branch was fuglied, and it has fallen  back to even older version
[00:49] <kasad> I don't really know much about current "in" such tools, ie WP/Joomla/Drupal and whatnot
[00:50] <kasad> I mean don't get me wrong, when I had to do a favour to friend, I wrote him WP plugin in one day for what he needed, and that was my first time seeing firsthand how backend of WP looks like
[00:50] <kasad> here comes the question/suggestion/idea
[00:52] <kasad> I had very good, (female) friend who runs certain website and did most of the work herself, site is moderately successful, but it's important for the capitol, espec. because it's arts & culture oriented, and that's something that's painfully needed in my hometown
[00:52] <kasad> anyways, long story short
[00:52] <kasad> she asked me for favour if I could take a look and optimize her site
[00:53] <kasad> zomg, when I saw that mumbo jumbo of WP plugins and shpagetti (may ye be blessed by His Noodly Appendage)
[00:53] <kasad> I was like WTF how is this possible
[00:54] <kasad> turns out it's really lotsa work to optimize that the "normal" way
[00:54] <kasad> so, I was thinking and would love to hear opinion
[00:55] <kasad> what if I completely ignored whole site, hosted it somewhere else from main domain
[00:55] <kasad> maybe offload stuff to static/dynamic subdomains
[00:55] <kasad> and then slap some variant of proxy with custom written code, to minify/gzip, concat everything that can be, etc ,etc
[00:56] <kasad> if you get my drift
[00:56] <kasad> does the idea make any sense to you?
[00:57] <sarnold> kasad: I think you'd enjoy this: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2677720
[00:58] <kasad> like i could pull the contect/and or rendered pages and cache whatever is cacheable, with custom script, and optimize everything, and she would be able to continue to do whatever she wants on her wp install, it would be completely separate, only content would be visible only trough proxy/whatever I cook up
[00:58] <kasad> lemme see
[00:58] <sarnold> kasad: caching is immensely difficult to get right; well, cache invalidation more than anything else. It would be very difficult to slap that onto an application after it is built.
[01:00] <kasad> well, she doesn't have much dynamic content, she posts new articles maybe once/twice a week, I could make her a trigger to rebuild cache. maybe use adaptive images so she doesn't have to think about image size, etc etc
[01:00] <kasad> reading
[01:03] <kasad> Facets to Features to Modules ...The HTTP Archive estimates that the average Web site in 2014 includes approximately 290 KB of JavaScript across 18 different files.2 By comparison, the Netflix homepage today delivers, on average, a 150-KB payload in a single JavaScript file. This file actually consists of 30 to 50 different files concatenated together ... snip ....
[01:03] <kasad> yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about
[01:04] <kasad> plus opcode cashing for whatever needs to be interpreted, plus maybe adaptive images approach for images
[01:04] <kasad> all mashed up together in some setup on some fast box running say ngnix
[01:06] <sarnold> one pal generates his website's content entirely wish bash
[01:06] <sarnold> he makes an edit, re-runs the generator, and out puts a few thousand HTML files and assorted content :)
[01:06] <sarnold> another pal does the same thing but with C
[01:07] <kasad> that's what I'm talking about
[01:07] <sarnold> I suspect either of those approachs would be easier than trying to deal with after-the-fact staticifying wordpress plus random plugins
[01:07] <sarnold> I'd pick C over shell, but you'd probably do better to pick ruby or python over C and shell :) haha
[01:09] <kasad> ruby/maybe node.js, or even shell scripting for generating hmml, pulling it from her wp setup, mixed with some cache solutions for every type of content i can think off, plus CDN usage wheverit' convenient
[01:09] <kasad> you got me
[01:10] <kasad> think it makes sense?
[01:10] <sarnold> everything except for keeping WP in the mix :) haha
[01:10] <kasad> because doing it the "normal" optimization of her WP setup, is like hell
[01:10] <sarnold> yeah. that's not what WP was designed for.
[01:10] <kasad> well, she is comfortable with wp, her writers/editore are as well
[01:11] <kasad> I guess I could pull out my old cms (uses tiny_mce)
[01:11] <kasad> and mash something up, because it hasnt been updated in looong time
[01:12] <kasad> but i have user management, auth, both front end and back end, custom image upload module with cropper
[01:12] <kasad> but then again, it's old and I haven't touched it in years
[01:13] <kasad> and there is so much more stuff they need that WP gives them on the platter
[01:13] <kasad> (except speed :P)
[01:13] <kasad> maybe they could continue using wp for main content, ie writting articles, and I pull from wp whatever else is usefull in discrete objects
[01:14] <kasad> write modules for whatever else is neeeded, then put it all together optimized/minified/conctated/you know all adjectives I was gonna use here so i am gonna stop
[01:14] <sarnold> kasad: you might be able to use the wordpress juju charm to scale the service more easily: http://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/trusty/wordpress
[01:14] <kasad> lemme take a look
[01:14] <sarnold> kasad: the juju charm can easily plug into a memcached caching layer
[01:17] <kasad> me likey
[01:17] <sarnold> kasad: if the database layer is too heavily loaded, you can also scale out the database server, see the "replication" piece here, http://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/trusty/mariadb
[01:18] <kasad> me definitely likey likey
[01:18] <kasad> thanks
[01:19] <kasad> reading
[01:20] <sarnold> the juju charms won't help you optimize the piles of javascripts that a client may need to download to use the site but it can definitely help you make the most of server-side resources without throwing out wordpress :)
[01:24] <kasad> yes yes, i got it
[01:24] <kasad> question, what would you reccomend as hosting solution
[01:25] <kasad> with juju approach
[01:25] <kasad> aws?
[01:26] <sarnold> kasad: aws is probably best-tested; I understand someone put together a plugin for digital ocean; I'm not sure if it works in full-generality or not, though
[01:26] <kasad> her current project is "her baby", but we have plans for something else entirely, and this could turn out to be great starting point
[01:27] <kasad> you just made my day sarnold
[01:27] <sarnold> :D
[01:27] <kasad> thanks for this
[01:27] <sarnold> kasad: there's also a #juju for the questions that are beyond me; I haven't done any charming for a year or so, things have changed drastically since I last used it
[01:27] <kasad> yeah, saw
[01:28]  * kasad rubs hands
[01:29] <kasad> If I ever write a charm, I'll make sure it's called either Great Juju of the mountain or Great Juju from the bottom of the sea
[01:29] <sarnold> haha
[01:30] <kasad> out of respect for Richard Dawkins
[01:31] <kasad> bookmarked everything, gonna do some heavy reading and testing tomorrow (it's 02:31:13 AM here)
[01:32] <kasad> funny how brain "works" ... we were talking about something completely different, and now I miss Cristopher Hitchens all of a sudden. (not that I don't miss him in general, but it just hit me that I am so sad that he died)
[01:33] <sarnold> word-association can lead to crazy places in only a few hops :)
[01:34] <kasad> and naturally, next, I miss George Carlin,,,
[01:36] <kasad> :) yeah, that's why I say, no hard AI, until we plug Hawking into cloud (not the one you play harp on :P)
[01:36] <sarnold> might not be a bad idea to start our AI experiements with intelligences -less- powerful than our own...
[01:37] <kasad> nah, I say, give it all we have
[01:37] <kasad> if it pwns us, we deserved it
[01:37] <kasad> did you saw "Singularity is near" by Ray Kurtzweil
[01:37] <keithzg> I dunno, the fermi paradox is not the kind of thing you want to *solve* ;)
[01:37] <kasad> xD
[01:37] <sarnold> kasad: enjoy :)  http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/07/roko_s_basilisk_the_most_terrifying_thought_experiment_of_all_time.html
[01:38] <kasad> imho the fermi paradox isn't paradox at all
[01:38] <kasad> lemme :) gimme :)
[01:38]  * kasad clicks and rubs hands
[01:41] <kasad> haha (still reading)
[01:47] <kasad> rofl
[01:52] <kasad> please, Almighty Eliezer, don’t torture me.
[01:52] <kasad> a bit abrahamic
[01:52] <kasad> but fun/ny
[01:53] <kasad> reminds me of hitchen's reference to heaven as celestial North Korea
[01:53] <sarnold> kasad: I figured you'd get a good laugh out of that :)
[01:53] <kasad> with one crucial difference, you can escape from North Korea at least by dying :P
[01:54] <kasad> you figured well my friend
[01:55] <kasad> now I'm half excepting William Lane Craig to jump out of my closet and start talking about Boltzmann brains
[01:56] <kasad> and by talking I mean spewing nonsense
[02:11] <kasad> btw sarnold: you haven't told me, did you saw "Singularity is near" the documentary not the book
[02:12] <sarnold> kasad: no, I haven't; I think I made it halfway through The Singularity (or some similar book) and gave up, hehe
[02:14] <kasad> it's pretty rare, considering it's been like 4 years. A story is not that relevant, I mean, it's badly produced and could be much more imaginative, but B line, - Interviews with giants like Minsky, Drexler, Rothblatt and others are awesome
[02:15] <kasad> you have to see the movie if you have slightest interest in the topic
[02:15] <kasad> I repeat, it's not about Ray, it's about who he brought to talk with
[02:16] <sarnold> nice, I'll add it to my list :) thanks
[02:16] <kasad> not sure you will be able to find it
[02:17] <kasad> it took me 2 years (unless you wanna pay for it, but I didn't had choice, my country got paypal this year)
[06:48] <grendal_prime> ya
[06:49] <grendal_prime> bekks, i simply must point out that the granularity of control that i have with the openvpn module in webmin is years ahead of anyting zentyal has to offer.
[06:51] <grendal_prime> Also the jabber support although nice in that it is integrated with the ldap/ad side of zentyal, still lacks control needed for for what i need to do and is well supported by openfire.
[06:55] <grendal_prime> there seems to be no support for setting up issued ip's to clients..anything that has to do with customization of connecting clients configuration is compleatly not there.
[06:56] <grendal_prime> Sorry i was talking about openvpn again with that.
[07:01] <grendal_prime> I like the idea of a cpanel that can do all of these things with the granularity needed for what i do, however every time i try something out, it appears to be focused on some other goal.  The webmin project although aged, has the flexibility for me to edit the plug ins to meet my needs. Its almost entirely written in perl.
[07:02] <grendal_prime> more importantly i have the ability with it to export an existing module, make the changes i need and then create my own module that i can deploy to my other webmin managed customers.
[07:04] <grendal_prime> I think this is probably the very reason that os's no longer support it. It is to versatile for them to keep pace. (Not a bad thing really when you think about it, just its own beast)
[11:27] <danialbehzadi> Hey all,
[11:27] <danialbehzadi> I have a VPS and want to run some services like Open-VPN on it and access them remotely, and I want to rn them via juju. Which method should I choose to bootstrap? local(lxc) or Maas?
[12:20] <kevindf> I've installed a Zabbix server recently that is currently monitoring 2 servers on my small local network, I like it alot so far. But I have a few Windows Pc's running on my local network also, If i'm correct I can monitor these Client PC's also with Zabbix?
[12:20] <kevindf> If I install the Zabbix agent on those Pc's
[12:20] <bekks> If there is a zabbix agent for them, you can monitor them.
[12:21] <kevindf> That's cool
[12:21] <bekks> Otherwise the agent would be pointless.
[14:34] <teward> do the vagrant cloud images pull from the same standard repositories as any given Ubuntu Server install?
[18:26] <SJr> Hmmmmm, 11 hours ago my ubuntu server stopped accepting SSH connections giving key exchange errors, exim gave errors "421 Unexpected log failure, please try later.". Apache gave 404 errors for well defined aliases. I couldn't authenticate to a jabber server, and the syslog stopped logging things. I just got the system rebooted now (I'm not directly near it).
[18:26] <SJr> Any ideas.
[18:28] <SJr> I'm running Ubuntu 14.04, the system is about 5 years old. When I was running Ubuntu 10.04, I had a sporadic problem where every so often (say 5 or 6 months), my computer would stop working, and it would take the entire LAN down with it (if that machine was plugged into the switch, every other machine on the network lost connectivity). I saw a post about a bug in the sky2 module when being unloaded would cause this, but I never was abl
[18:28] <SJr> e to figure out what caused the initial problem.
[18:28] <dasjoe> Not enough free disk space?
[18:40] <SJr> Root has 37 gb free.
[20:04] <lnxmen> hello
[20:06] <qman__> SJr: sounds like something stopped your system from being able to write to disk
[20:06] <qman__> SJr: either full, or stopped, or disconnected, etc
[20:09] <lnxmen> When I try to load my page, I get 500 (Internal Server Error)
[20:10] <lnxmen> I can't find any user option in nginx config...
[20:10] <lnxmen> It's commented.
[22:07] <lnxmen> How to change root path in Plesk?
[22:10] <bekks> lnxmen: sk the Plesk support please.
[22:10] <bekks> lnxmen: Thats not an Ubuntu issue, honestly.
[22:10] <lnxmen> I asked already.
[22:11] <lnxmen> You are right... Sorry.
[22:33] <zermanno> Hi, is it possible to list files that are not installed from apt?