[07:32]  * ochosi just upgraded to gtk3.14 from ubuntu-desktop's testing PPA on vivid
[07:34] <elfy> ochosi is flying along on the crest of a wave this cycle :)
[07:35] <ochosi> yalla, that isn't all looking right
[07:35] <ochosi> i mean, it *could* be worse
[07:35] <ochosi> but there are a few things that are messed up
[07:35] <elfy> right
[07:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: i guess you have to push an update to catfish for 3.14... http://i.imgur.com/cVg72ci.png
[07:36] <ochosi> should be simple though in this case
[07:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i take it back. in fact i have to update greybird, nothing you have to do for catfish, that's all good
[07:47] <elfy> you want me to upgrade gtk as well to double check your updates?
[07:47] <elfy> if so - point me at the ppa :)
[07:51] <ochosi> elfy: will do. for now i can just tell you that a lot of stuff looks broken :)
[07:52] <ochosi> thing is, i'm waiting for satya to finish the SASS port of Numix for gtk3.14
[07:52] <ochosi> then i'll port Greybird based on that
[07:52] <elfy> ochosi: that's ok - I don't mind that too much - looks all the better when the fix comes :D
[07:52] <ochosi> so trying to fix small issues now is a waste of time
[07:52] <ochosi> just looking what general issues we might be having
[07:53] <elfy> ok - well how about you let me know when it should be better and I'll do it then 
[07:55] <ochosi> yup, that's better :)
[07:55] <ochosi> already found the first bug i can fix though
[07:56] <elfy> :)
[07:59] <elfy> ochosi: here's an odd one - I move window controls to the left, calc keeps the close on the right 
[08:00] <ochosi> not really odd, it's CSD
[08:01] <ochosi> (client-side decorations)
[08:01] <ochosi> there is no way we can change that other than by hardcoding it in the theme
[08:01] <ochosi> which is why it's on the right, like the xubuntu default
[08:03] <elfy> ok - thanks
[08:05] <ochosi> Unit193: didn't you have a replacement suggestion for gnome-calculator?
[08:05] <Unit193> No.
[08:06] <ochosi> oh right
[08:07] <ochosi> we could install galculator
[08:08] <ochosi> apart from the ugly app-icon it sets, it looks quite alright
[08:08] <ochosi> and it has a menubar and traditional window borders
[08:08] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/D0YSo0l.png
[08:08] <Unit193> Hah, that's the one I just looked at. :P
[08:09] <ochosi> well it says mate on the packaging, so it should be alright
[08:09] <ochosi> do we have many other apps with CSD?
[08:10] <ochosi> (simple-scan is already being fixed)
[08:10] <Unit193> And some of those can look to MATE alternatives.
[08:10] <ochosi> hmm, file-roller
[08:11] <Unit193> Hmm, GTK#?
[08:11] <ochosi> what're you asking?
[08:11] <elfy> hi Unit193 
[08:12] <Unit193> !info graphmonkey
[08:12] <Unit193> elfy: Howdy, too.
[08:12] <ochosi> that's too complex anyway
[08:12] <ochosi> i guess it's gtk+c#
[08:12] <ochosi> but i dunno
[10:45] <bluesabre> elfy, ochosi, there is a way to fix that
[10:47] <bluesabre> ochosi, can you investigate adding this to the xfwm settings?
[10:47] <bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/530
[10:49] <bluesabre> basically, the layout for GtkHeaderBars is: <left-side of header>:<right-side of header>
[11:20] <bluesabre> elfy: ^ Settings > Settings Editor, "xsettings" -> "DecorationLayout"
[13:17] <elfy> bluesabre: ack
[13:36] <ochosi> elfy: my intelligent hiding patch was reviewed today, so i hope it'll be pushed in the next days and then we'll soon have it in the PPA. have you noticed any other oddities with intelligent hiding so far?
[13:38] <ochosi> btw, file-roller is supposed to get the headerbar removed
[14:38] <elfy> ochosi: no - not seen anything else I would call odd at all 
[14:39] <elfy> as soon as I see the upgrade I'll set it to hide again and check it works for me as well as you :)
[14:39] <ochosi> yup, i'll let you know when it lands 
[14:39] <elfy> thanks :)
[14:40] <elfy> ochosi: as soon as that's landed perhaps we could look at running a call for corner tiling - unless you want to leave it a while 
[14:41] <ochosi> yeah, actually i discovered one or two issues myself already that i would want to resolve first
[14:41] <elfy> I know that a few that test for us - also test buntu wide - and there should be a call for alpha 1 this week 
[14:41] <elfy> ochosi: ok - when you're ready give me a shout then :)
[14:41] <ochosi> yeah, not sure how much time i'll have before christmas to figure this out
[14:42] <elfy> ok - well a2 is week commencing 19th January 
[14:42] <elfy> so try and remember I'd not want extra in for that week
[14:43] <ochosi> sure
[17:13] <sidi> just  FYI there's a Xub user on the xfce user ML who complains about recurrent Thunar crashes
[17:14] <sidi> it'd be a great idea to give him/her some instructions on running a Thunar that writes a coredump or that logs TRACE() calls to a file we can retrieve
[17:29] <ochosi> afaik thunar is one of the most frequent crashers in xubuntu
[17:29] <ochosi> i think ali1234 looked into that a bit
[17:29] <ochosi> sidi: ^
[17:30] <sidi> ochosi, i did run a debug version too but mine crashes rarely
[17:30] <sidi> primarily because i dont use file managers much
[17:37] <ochosi> sidi: here's the follow-up discussion of thunar... https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-November/030918.html
[17:44] <sidi> ochosi, oh right
[17:45] <ochosi> so yeah, those things don't go unnoticed, but i guess so far nobody has found the culprit
[23:36] <bluesabre> I'll keep the file-roller headerbar if it means there are not two menubars
[23:36] <bluesabre> :)
[23:40] <Unit193> I'd take two menus over none.
[23:43]  * bluesabre aims to patch in a third menu for good measure
[23:43] <bluesabre> how's it going Unit193?
[23:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but actually it's just their patches being borked
[23:51] <ochosi> i talked to larsu today
[23:52] <ochosi> also the issue with gnome-calculator will likely be resolved
[23:52] <ochosi> right now it checks for !unity instead of for ==gnome
[23:55] <bluesabre> ochosi: cool
[23:55] <bluesabre> will probably patch lls tonight and package up ll for vivid
[23:55] <ochosi> if they don't fix it in time we gotta poke them
[23:55] <ochosi> wow, that'd be quick
[23:56] <ochosi> don't you wanna just patch xfpm instead?
[23:56] <ochosi> to me it sounds like a nicer investment
[23:56] <ochosi> although if we want to keep *maximum modularity* then yes, fine, keep lls around
[23:57] <ochosi> to me the original idea of lls though was being a crutch for 14.04 and ll not having a proper settings interface
[23:57] <bluesabre> ochosi: true, was just going to do lls quickly since it is a quick to fix thing
[23:57] <ochosi> actually now people can easily change their setting via dconf-editor etc
[23:57] <bluesabre> but maybe thats just lazy of me :)
[23:57] <ochosi> adding another tab for xfpm is just as easy though
[23:57] <ochosi> (almost)
[23:58] <ochosi> since you already know how to handle gsettings in c, the rest is a piece of cake, no?
[23:58] <ochosi> although yeah, we need a runtime-check for light-locker again
[23:58] <ochosi> but with dbus, that should be more reliable now, no?
[23:59] <ochosi> and less PID-y