=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [01:41] Is it right that the file /etc/resolvconf/interface-order is only relevant when I configure multiple dns server in /etc/network/interfaces (including for example nameservers from dhcp) [01:41] ? === zz_DenBeiren is now known as DenBeiren [03:17] hi all [03:29] can anyone help me out with configureing a simple dns server [03:29] that was a question [03:29] not a challenge [03:30] unless a challenge works faster [03:31] grendal_prima: I have the same task at the moment :P [03:31] its all up and i can see requests in the server log, but it is just not sending the info back. [03:32] DonRichie, we can beat it up together [03:32] grendal_prime: perhaps https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-configure-bind-as-an-authoritative-only-dns-server-on-ubuntu-14-04 ? [03:32] or https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-configure-bind-as-a-private-network-dns-server-on-ubuntu-14-04 even [03:32] grendal_prime: do you use dnsmasq or bind? [03:33] bind9 [03:33] (note of course they suggest using their DNS stuff, but still, the guide might work) [03:33] me2 [03:33] have2pbrb [03:34] I recently mastered the client side dns configuration and digged deep enough to fully understand the resolvconf program. [03:36] My bind9 is resolving domains out of the box after I installed and started it. Now I am at the point to tell bind something about my domain to make it "authorative" :) [03:38] not know why cant save a file on home of the user: see: http://pastie.org/9801426 any advice? [03:40] chmod that dir recursively to 775 [03:41] chmod -R 775 usernamegoeshere [03:42] grendal_prime: he uses sudo in that paste. I think he shoudl be able to write === Metacity is now known as meta666 [03:42] grendal_prime? [03:42] syntax may be off... === meta666 is now known as Metacity [03:42] sorry still cleaning up the box wine from christmass [03:43] DonRichie, ya well i always assume at that point a person has sudo -s [03:45] sorry jak2000 did that work? [03:45] DonRichie, you have teamviewer client? [03:46] i don't think it's safe or sane to use teamviewer over irc [03:46] ? [03:47] grendal_prime: yes, but I am not sure if I can help you with your problem. I am also still learning [03:47] im not going to do that over irc [03:47] done are you getting resolution of local hosts? [03:48] sorry i meant DonRichie [03:48] I get resolution of internet hosts, but didn't define a local zone yet [03:48] ya that aparently is the bitch [03:48] weird i cant believe this so complicated. [03:49] I already did it a time ago and remember it was a little bit difficult. I will look in my old config files [03:52] I think something changed. There are "db." files now. In my old config i used ".zone" files [03:52] But maybe it is an operating system related behavior [03:56] DonRichie, hey im gonna try something a little bit unconventional...or just ill advised for a second. [03:57] grendal_prime: http://pastie.org/9801439 [03:57] touch: cannot touch ‘rtom.sh’: Read-only file system [03:57] thats the biggie on that [03:58] reboot the machine. is it a vm by chance? [03:58] you will get that with a bad live migration. [03:58] also a drive that is fked [04:00] ummm there are a few other things that will cause it, none of them a good idea. thing is jak2000 a typical reboot will usually fix it. there was some sort of threat to file integrity that apparomor or the kernel picked up. It put the entire drive into read only mode. [04:00] that way you dont loose your important shit. [04:02] Most default drive mounts are set up to remount into ro (read only) when serious file system issues arise. [04:03] jak2000, ARE YOU READING THE WORDS COMING OFF OF MY FINGER TIPS?!!! [04:05] grendal_prime yes [04:05] rebooting. is a vps server [04:05] :) [04:05] vps? [04:05] whats a vps? [04:06] virtual private serer [04:06] *v [04:06] a server on the cloud [04:06] ooooo....ya those are sucky for alot of reasons. [04:06] well i mean unless you have a great idea for a startup === zz_DenBeiren is now known as DenBeiren [04:20] jake2000 did that work? [04:20] grrr..ya your welcome [04:50] grendal_prime: how is it going? Did you beat up your DNS problem? [04:51] possibly [04:53] im starting from the gound up with an old friend [04:54] administrative spider [04:54] I also needed to refresh my dns knowledge a bit. I am currently reading some stuff [04:54] had to clone a generic server [04:55] adding the typical bs to get it where i want it. [04:55] I WILL SLAY THIS DRAGON!! [04:56] I AM THE GRENDAL!! [04:56] What do you mean with bs? [04:57] AH you now..i like my servers very generic..so i have to set up authorized keys, [04:57] grendal_prime: go and get that xp and loot [04:57] xp? [04:58] experience points [04:59] I KILL THIS BS ON A DAILY BASIS....WOOP WOOP.. also fish i kill those allot as well. [04:59] still dont know the abbreviation bs ^^ [05:00] oh sorry. Bull shit. [05:00] its a rancher phrase. commonly pronounced Booowl shit [05:01] Ahhh, now I understand :) [05:01] what are you from england? [05:01] Germany [05:02] ahhh...there ya have it...you guys blood pudding, warm beer and hot chicks with big tits.....precision, calipers and metric system. [05:02] here in americal we adjust things with an 8 pound hammer. [05:03] important stuff....while we are drunk. [05:04] never ate blood pudding, drink my beer cold, like big tits and also like the metric system [05:04] Not me mind you im a model citizen. Im differnt. [05:05] dude...we should hang out...i like big tits and the metric system TOO!!! [05:05] Sure, come over! [05:06] you got Xtra big tits and metric system stuff to go around? [05:07] We should go to a club and measure the size of tits with the metric system. [05:07] m³ [05:08] more importantly, there is density and gravitational equation to take into account [05:09] obviously you are dealing with the same dns issues im dealing with! [05:11] I am currently at the point I should be able to try defining a zone [05:26] im using a tool [05:26] ill let you know how it goes [05:26] okay :) [05:39] im kinda ending up at the same place...im missing something simple here [05:41] If you weren't already using it u maybe can debug your problem by using "dig +trace +additional" [05:41] To see where the resolution is hanging [05:49] this tool im trying makes the settings pretty simple. but im running into the same issue ihad before [06:02] so basically i just want a zone for my local network. say i want that to be. booksnmore.lan [06:04] Okay. what is your problem at the moment? [06:11] so do i want a master slave stub forward or deligation zone? [06:11] it just doesnt seem to me it should be so damn hard [06:17] Don't know if it helps but here is an old configuration I wrote: http://paste.ricl.de/?0f32918f75e7ef8d#V9v+5JJ1jVKCqdw1VPn+YBjMtQa3GYYnguEFmsLx1Bo= [06:19] its working as a cacheing server basically at this point. it is forwarding on dns requests to like google. [06:19] its just not seeing my local records. [06:21] Can you show me your zone configuration? Maybe I have an idea what to do [06:21] if i have the clients network settings pointed to 192.168.15.250 as the dns server. and on that server there is an entry stating that zimbra1 is located at 192.168.15.249 than i should be able to ping that address [06:22] grendal_prima: First, are you sure you speak to the correct DNS-Server? [06:23] If yes: did you define search domain? [06:23] on your clients [06:24] If not you need to resolv the fqdn for example zimbra1.domain [06:26] grendal_prime: And check that you did not forget the tailing "." in your domains [06:29] fuck [06:29] this is crazy. [06:29] now i remember why i have avoided this for so many years [06:30] oops did i think that or actually type it? [06:31] ok one step at a time...bind is installed. [06:31] dns is fun :) [06:31] first thing i need is a forwarding zone right? [06:32] that way anything that is not in a local zone will be moved on to some other server correct? [06:32] im gonna use google. [06:33] by the way im trying to use the webmin module at this point. [06:35] that part works [06:36] i can ping things and it figures out what the addreses are. next. I need to set up a zone for internal addresses. [06:37] another master zone? [06:38] you need 2 zones. 1 for forward lookups and 1 for reverse lookup [06:41] no reverse if for addresses to names. I dont care about that [06:41] i just need names to addresses [06:42] here is where this gets frustrating, this is pretty simple when dealing with a hosts file, [06:43] why it is that the server needs to be complicated about this in the first place makes no since to me. [06:52] this is rediculas [06:53] there are a hudred howtos on this..i cant find a single one that works [06:54] im starting over..setting up a small virtual network with one router as a gateway. privete isolated netwrk that will have to go through that device, [06:55] it will act as the router/dns server. [06:55] one client. [06:55] if you want I can take a look at your config files [06:55] give me 10 min [06:55] k [06:56] hah, sounds like setting up zabbix, have to try different working methods at different points from different howto's..... [06:57] zabbix is easy [06:57] dude [06:57] DonRichie, prvt chat [06:57] we will need screen shareing and whatnot. [06:58] why don't you just pastebin them? [06:58] that is slow [06:58] no it's not? [06:58] direct screen access [06:58] yeah, that's something i would never do [06:58] im not talking to you [06:59] you're in a public channel, yes, you're talking to everyone, including me. [06:59] don't be rude. [07:01] dude...im not going to screen share with you [07:01] or everone else here. [07:02] you obviously have not used the app before [07:02] it does not give the other individual any access other than viewing what you have on screen [07:03] i'm saying you could just pastebin your configs (using something like wgetpaste, makes it <30 seconds to share that) and someone could help you [07:04] this requires a bit more than that [07:04] a birdseye view of the network creation and servers is sometiemes required...and you dont get it..this is all in a disposable environment [07:05] its all virtual on my own isolated dev network [07:05] i appreciate your concern.. however i do know what i am doing. [07:05] no, it doesn't. it requires me to download proprietary software to establish a connection to your screen [07:05] im not talking to you [07:05] which many work firewalls even block [07:06] i own my own nework. and blocking outbound connections on random ports is rather difficult. [07:06] i'm not going to "force" to help you, but you shouldn't be so rude to people who are more than willing to help. in addition, not many people like unsolicited PMs. it helps other people resolve their issues if you express the concern publicly, especially since the channel is logged and someone might be able to find it useful in the future. [07:07] ill gladly post how we did this in the end [07:08] im going to show him the environment im building he will more than likely point out what im doing wrong. [07:09] i wasnt trying to be rude. I asked him to a private chate so as not to imposing on anyone else [07:09] hopefully he's able to help. have fun [07:09] we have work to do i will talk to you later [07:10] "more than likely": I am also still learning [07:26] ubuntu does not seem to like the external switch in hyperv [07:29] jerrcs, this seems to be working really well so far we will let you know if we trip on our dicks [07:30] um thanks for the update. i really don't need them though, thanks [09:23] he nailed it [09:23] we will be giving you an entire briefing in the mourning. [09:23] not your mourning though...ours [09:45] also i have to buy a new motorcycle for my kid tomorro, the report may be a day late [09:46] possibly 2 [09:48] also i didnt get hacked, and i didnt have to hack anyone else, so i think its safe to say...in the end, we are both happy and un infected. [09:49] PEACE!!! === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [12:28] okay so at work I login to a domain with my username and password, and no matter what computer I login to all my stuff is the same... how do I create a server like that? === abcd7z is now known as linocisco === Pupeno_ is now known as Pupeno === kirkland` is now known as kirkland [15:41] aloha [15:41] nobody seems to have idea so I came here to cry for halp [15:42] I am doing friend a favour, and due to change of plans, I now have ~100GB ntfs partition that is unused, so I was thinking of formatting it to ext4 and mounting it as /home [15:42] so my train of thought was like, format to ext4, mount it somewhere as say tmphome [15:43] rsync, edit fstab, reboot & profit [15:43] problem is home dir is encrypted [15:43] will that affect the procedure or it doesn't matter since I am doing everything with appropriate privileges anyway [15:44] Hi guys, so after having rebroken the server (ftp filepermissions) due to following a patchwork of online tutorials I figured I'd to a clean re-install of ubuntu server 14.04 and then ask you guys for block by block help to set up a webserver following industry standards. [15:44] So far I have re-installed a clean install using disk lvm partitioning and just run apt-get update & apt-get upgrade. === jrwren_ is now known as jrwren [15:44] I'm guessing the first thing is to set up so I can telnet into the server using putty? If so, then how would I set it up using industry standards? [15:45] Tobbe-82|Reinsta: I suggest you start from http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-ubuntu-14.04-apache2-php-mysql-pureftpd-bind-dovecot-ispconfig-3 [15:45] there is step by step everything, leave out things like dovecot if you don't want imap/pop3 [15:46] or ispconfig if you plan to do everything by hand/scripts or maybe use some other solutions [15:46] s/solutions/solution [15:47] that's the easiest most straightforward guide I can think of right now for someone who is asking question which has "telnet into the server" in it. no offense [16:00] anyone got idea how to rsync/copy/whatever encrypted home to new partition [16:03] will it just be unencrypted? [16:03] after copying [16:04] or will I botch everything === esde_ is now known as esde [17:39] ah no! I get a 503 on my fpm install [17:39] php-fpm and we cannot get it solved, just a basic setup [17:50] yay! [17:52] no noy yay [18:03] exactly what does apt-get say when you install it? [18:03] I mean, you posted nothing, how can you expect results? [18:10] Patrickdk: the only thing I get is AH01074: Failed writing Environment to : [18:10] Patrickdk: this is a good example http://www.binarytides.com/setup-apache-php-fpm-mod-proxy-fcgi-ubuntu/ [18:10] what happened to all the stuff around that message [18:11] nothing [18:11] Is there a significant difference to running a MySql server or a MariaDB database? [18:11] define, good example? that looks like a tutorial [18:11] Patrickdk: yes and we tested it, at least someone on ##php and that worked [18:11] 14.04 [18:11] so I wonder what goes wrong, or what I can check on apache [18:11] check apache? [18:12] you said you got a 503 when installing fpm [18:12] so what is going on with apt-get? [18:12] how exactly is apt-get failing? [18:12] it is normally very verbose [18:13] Patrickdk: huh what has apt-get to do with it ? [18:14] my webbrowser says 503 on it :) [18:14] dunno about your webbrowser [18:14] you said you got a 503 on your fpm install [18:14] so what is wrong with the install? [18:14] I guess your not talking about the install at all [18:14] but in your php/apache config? [18:15] in that case, well, consult whatever php application your attempting to use [18:17] nevermind [18:56] hey DonRichie pretty sure the entire issue was with the client and that dns-localdomain setting [18:57] i have a really great app for managing that entire process now that we know what needs to be dont...very slick server side application and web interface [19:24] Hello. I have just installed ubuntu server and faced and problem [19:24] with Foregin keyboard layout , can't fix my configs with VI or anything :\ [19:24] How does one install new layout? [19:25] define, layout [19:25] oh, keyboard [19:25] yeah [19:25] it asks you that at install time [19:25] Nope [19:25] VM [19:25] vm still has an installer [19:25] unless you mean some kind of vms [19:26] VM that automaticly installs os [19:26] no user install [19:26] :\ [19:26] http://askubuntu.com/questions/155424/changing-tty-keyboard-layout-on-a-server [19:27] Thanks a bunch man [19:38] So, I'm trying to figure something out. (I'm looking at this on a 12.04 machine by the way) - is the linux-image-virtual kernel actually any different from the standard one? I'm comparing a 3.2.0 kernel on my 12.04 machine with a 3.17 standard kernel on my (different distro) workstation, and the "virtual" 3.2 kernel is actually significantly larger [19:39] based on a *very* brief overview of the kernel config, it doesn't look like there's actually any real difference in terms of what support is enabled. [19:48] ugh, WOW. there's almost no difference at all in the kernel config. http://sprunge.us/RaAT?diff [19:48] there is a huge difference [19:48] they are the same exact kernel [19:49] except the virtual one, doesn't pull in all the extra kernel modules [19:49] different scheduler, different number of max CPUs, a couple other things [19:49] hm. how so? [19:49] there is considerably less needed for the virtual kernels [19:49] the config file is basically identical, folks [19:49] no ocfs module, I forget what else [19:49] take a look at that diff i shared [19:49] who said the difference had ANYTHING to do with the kernel config file? [19:49] that's the config of a -generic vs a -virtual [19:50] ... then I'm confused. [19:50] because the hardware options are much less for the virtual ones. remember one of the biggest things about virtualization is that the hardware appears to be the same no matter what arichtecture you are working on. [19:50] who said that -generic vs -virtual where compiled from different kernels? [19:50] Folks, I understand what virtualization is. [19:50] And I understand the idea of having less stuff. [19:50] you dont need a tone of different network card information to be in the kernel [19:51] What I'm *not* understanding is where that difference is, if the kernel config files are almost identical [19:51] There's no difference in what's compiled as a module or installed or what - unless that's NOT happening in the kernel config [19:51] Overand, again, what does the kernel config file have to do with anything? [19:51] what does the kernel config file have to do with package management? [19:51] Patrickdk: Like I said - maybe I'm missing something, but my understanding is that the config file is what defines what modules get compuiled etc [19:51] Overand, it is [19:51] Ok, what does package management have to do with anything? [19:52] but that has nothing to do with the -generic and -virtual packages [19:52] the modules are compiled [19:52] but they are not *included* into the package [19:52] you can add them if you want, or need them [19:53] but by default, they are not installed [19:53] where with -generic, they are [19:53] hmm [19:53] alright, that makes more sense [19:53] that is why the kernel made modules to start with [19:54] I understand the idea of modules, I just hadn't considered that the primary difference between the virtual kernel and the generic one is the schedulers used and the inclusion of modules in the main package [19:55] the size difference is all cause of the modules not installed by default [19:56] I understand that. [19:56] I'd just figured there'd be a bit less stuff compiled into the kernel itself - both are 4.8 MB [19:57] Greetings [19:58] A lot of stuff I wouldn't expect, like CONFIG_BACKLIGHT_LCD_SUPPORT=y CONFIG_DRM_NOUVEAU_DEBUG=y - but that's likely just my lack of kernel internals understanding. [19:58] I think I've probably literally reconfigured & compiled a 2.6 line kernel maybe 3 or 4 times, total. [19:59] Seems to be some confusing things about server configuration. For example, ddclient. Installed ok, but it seems that you aren't supposed to directly edit config files, such as /etc/ddclient.conf ?? [19:59] well, nouveau won't matter in a vm, cause nouveau won't be used [20:00] I guess this all comes down to me wondering why the boot times seem so diffrent now than in the first JeOS releases I used (which may well have been 8.04?) And it's likely not all that much kernel-related. [20:00] unless you passthough a video card, but then you probably want it then [20:00] how is it different? [20:00] One thing I've never been quite clear on re: the kernel is actually how much impact having device support compiled in has on ANYTHING if the device isn't present. [20:00] 12.04 uses upstart, instead of sysv in 8.04 [20:01] (minus the increased security attack surface, kernel file size, etc) [20:01] that depends on the module [20:02] the module might be 100% outside the kernel, or 90%, or like 50% [20:02] well, i may not have been clear. [20:03] Let's say I went through that virtual kernel config, and took out *everything* compiled in or set up as a module that isn't relevant to - say - running on KVM with virtio devices. [20:03] I am used to editing config files by hand. Is this going to be a problem with Ubuntu server ? [20:03] How much impact would that *actually* have on stuff like boot time? (or even performance) [20:03] Annoyed: not in my experience. I edit plenty of stuff by hand. [20:04] you can edit anything you want [20:04] the problem is when you upgrade/update :) [20:04] Annoyed: there are *some* things that y ou don't want to edit by hand even in most distros, if the config files are generated by something. Like on Arch, which is EXTREMELY "do it yourself," you don't want to edit grub config by hand, generally, because there's a whoel grub detection thing most people use [20:04] but i don't recall anything of the sort on Ubuntu other than exim config if you set it up that way, and maybe grub [20:04] overand, if your thinking the modules are affecting boot time, your off the mark [20:05] normally what affects 95% of your boot time, is starting up all the init scripts [20:05] Patrickdk: modules i'd not expect as much. compiled-in stuff i'm not sure about but yeah [20:05] this is why upstart was made, and why systemd was created [20:05] it doesm ake sense that everything's scripts [20:05] One thing I like about systemd is that it's got the "bootchart" functionality built in [20:05] that's SO nice [20:05] last I looked, systemd was still a collection of scripts [20:05] atleast for startup scripts [20:06] in my little usage of rhel7 [20:06] That's what I'm concerned with. For example, ddclient. will debconf (or something else) change /etc/ddclient.conf if I set it up manually? [20:06] " systemd-analyze" etc [20:07] Annoyed: i cannot imagine why debconf would upadte it and not ask you [20:07] Can you provide context for "it seems you're not supposed to edit it directly?" [20:08] I don't see anything that says don't edit it [20:08] it only says, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE FILE [20:08] Well, for example. ddclient. the top of the file says "Configuration file for ddclient generated by debconf" [20:08] mine doesn't say that [20:09] file is /etc/ddclient.conf [20:09] when you installed, did you get a whole debconf prompt? [20:10] No, used a GUI installer. The apt-get system seems very difficult to use from command line.. [20:10] apt-get install ddclient [20:10] seems much more simpler than gui :) [20:10] ... [20:10] Annoyed: Is there a good reason for you to be using a GUI on your server? [20:10] anyway - https://wiki.debian.org/debconf [20:12] Overand : Yes, it seems that command line is crazy convoluted for some things.. For example, many packages have numerous optional components. No idea how you select options using command-line apt-get [20:12] * RoyK doesn't like systemd [20:13] So I chose to install a bare bones GUI to get some of the GUI tools, such as software center [20:14] you just install the optional components [20:14] And how do you know what they are? [20:14] normally when you install the main package, it says, suggested install, xxxx [20:14] search for them? [20:14] apt-cache search xxxx [20:14] apt-cache show yyyy (of the main package) [20:16] Hmmm... didn't have much luck with that earlier [20:17] But I've got that part solved with the GUI, which is not running all the time anyway. [20:19] meh [20:19] Annoyed: if you want a 'gui' maybe use 'aptitude' [20:19] software-center seems insane, to me, to use on a server [20:19] at least use synaptic, maybe? (is that included, still? [20:20] And how do you go about controlling services? what runs at startup, what doesn't. It seems to be running more than one way to control this. something called upstart...., as well as the older rc-update style [20:20] aptitude is a CLI 'gui' [20:20] Yeah, I tried Aptitude, some success with that. [20:21] https://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+server+control+startup+services result 3 is https://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+server+control+startup+services which suggests 'bum' or 'rconf' but i'v never used either [20:24] Hmmm.. that looks interesting. So the old update-rc.d is out the window? [20:26] TBH I have no idea, I haven't had to enable or disable anything on my few 14.04 machines [20:28] One other silly question for now, anyway... It's not referring to network interfaces by the usual eth(x) terms... it calls my uplink interface " p2p1" for example. [20:29] Can I use that name whereever I would normally have used eth0 for example? [20:30] sure [20:30] that name is what the nic calls itself [20:31] or rather, what the system calls the nick [20:31] What is the point of making changes like this? Why not just call it eth(x) ? seems to be unneeded complexity [20:31] Annoyed: Yeah. That's been a long time coming - it's "predictable, reliable nic names" [20:31] Annoyed: eth0 is great if you only ever have one NIC [20:31] eth has worked fine for me, with 12+ nics [20:31] this new nic naming has caused me nothing but problems [20:31] eth0 is terrible if you have multiple NICs and your boot performance changes a tiny bit and a different NIC gets eth0 vs eth1 each time [20:31] due to the renaming not working, due to conflicts [20:31] It's got 3... but i've always been able to tell 'em apart. [20:32] then I end up with nics randmoly called renamex [20:32] does ubuntu use the same nic naming stuff as arch? [20:32] udev is the reliable way to name them [20:32] and udev is fine [20:32] if you don't like it, uninstall that biosdevname package [20:33] If anyone wants to read about it in SystemD: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ [20:33] don't want to read anything about systemd [20:33] (I have no diea if 14.04 is on systemd - i didn't think it was) [20:33] Patrickdk: heh - I feel you on that. [20:33] 14.04 plays with systemd, but doesn't really use it [20:33] Though the justification for predictable nic names is worthwhile [20:33] I found that the new names were less stable than the old ones [20:34] i've had no issues with it on arch w/systemd, haven't tried it on ubuntu [20:34] and i've got a weird mix of nics, PCI, PCIe, onboard, addon, etc [20:34] I hope this will be better in future LTSen than 14.04 [20:34] how *much* of systemd does arch use? [20:35] I have noticed systemd has been recreating every single cve that other programs have solved for years, all over again [20:35] Patrickdk: Yeah. SystemD is... [20:35] in it's attempt to, merge everything [20:35] well, let's just say it's contentious [20:35] and obviously there are some implementation problems [20:35] Hmmm... I don't have any more time to play with this now... but I think the devs could learn a thing for Star Trek's "Scotty"... The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. [20:35] i'm not sure that the problems it's solving are worth the hassle [20:36] Annoyed: Honestly, I'm fine with the way persistent nic naming has been handled on my (non-ubuntu) systems. I think it's great. [20:36]