[00:30] <soreau> Hi, I'm wanting to install a python package manually and want to pass --install-layout=deb but only if on ubuntu/deb based distro
[00:30] <soreau> what's the 'easiest' build system check to see if you're on deb based system so the modules get installed to the correct location or what's a better way of doing this?
[01:17] <mark06> maybe something around the lines of https://github.com/renatosilva/pidgin/blob/master/build/ububuild.sh#L21
[02:38] <teward> cjwatson: no reason to dig into it unless others report a broken build on the same host.  until then, thank you for the unrelated retry of build failures, which happened to build the powerpc package without issue.  :)
[02:38] <teward> (sorry, late ping, been a bit busyish since this morning)
[05:23] <ScottK> mitya57: I'd rather not cripple pyqt5.
[10:56] <mitya57> ScottK, ok, will file a MIR
[12:56] <weasel_popper> so, this is just pointless nagging as it's something that impossible to fix without breaking everything, but implicit globbing is a terrible design flaw in linux
[12:57] <weasel_popper> it would be better imo if it were explicit. like  'glob rm *.txt | bash -s', where 'glob' would print the globbed arguments to stdout
[12:58] <weasel_popper> then you could write programs that do things like 'calc 2*3+1', or properly use forwardslash in path names
[13:08] <bekks> echo "2+3*4"|bc
[13:09] <weasel_popper> that was just an example. yet another one is multiple file renaming. eg. you can't do 'mv * *.txt'
[13:10] <bekks> Use rename instead of mv.
[13:10] <weasel_popper> that doesn't solve the problem, it just works around the one case
[13:11] <bekks> Well, you can disable globbing in bash.
[13:12] <weasel_popper> True. The problem is that there even being implicit globbing period is largely what makes Linux incompatible with Windows from a file system point of view.
[13:12] <cjwatson> It isn't a property of Linux.  It's a property of the shell.
[13:12] <cjwatson> In particular it's not a property of the file system.
[13:13] <cjwatson> The shell is a replaceable component.
[13:13] <weasel_popper> @cjwatson, it's a property of the bash shell, which is the standard shell for all unixes.
[13:13] <udevbot> Error: "cjwatson," is not a valid command.
[13:14] <bekks> bash is NOT the standard shell for ALL unixes. In fact, most Unices dont even have bash installed.
[13:14] <cjwatson> I'm aware that the POSIX shell (not bash) is standard.  It's still replaceable.  Understanding what layers things happen at is important.
[13:14] <cjwatson> (rather, *a* POSIX shell)
[13:14] <weasel_popper> well, more correctly, the 'bourne' shell is the standard shell. bash is an extension of that
[13:15] <bekks> weasel_popper: And the bourne shell is not the standard shell on most unices, too.
[13:15] <weasel_popper> next you're going to tell me that 'ed' isn't the standard editor
[13:15] <cjwatson> bash is an extended reimplementation based on the Korn shell, which in turn was based on the Bourne shell
[13:15] <bekks> HPUX uses ksh, AIX uses ksh, Solaris 10 uses ksh - and they all dont even have bash or the bourne shell installed, by default.
[13:15] <cjwatson> Most Unix systems have at least Korn-style shells nowadays.
[13:16] <cjwatson> Anyway, they all have globbing, so this is a moot point.  And this is a totally pointless debate here. :-)
[13:16] <cjwatson> I'd just like you to acknowledge the difference between "Linux" and individual shells more clearly.
[13:18] <weasel_popper> I was just rambling anyway. Was studying shell design for OS dev and noticed there was literally no criticism whatsoever of implicit globbing to be found on the net
[13:20] <cjwatson> This seems unlikely
[13:20] <cjwatson> Anyway, there are obvious trade-offs either way
[13:21] <weasel_popper> Another thing I find to be a design flaw is the use of a root directory. It essentially offers you a million ways to shoot yourself in foot in exchange for typing 2-4 more characters like c:/ or hd0:/
[13:22] <cjwatson> OK, please stop this.
[13:22] <cjwatson> This isn't going to result in concrete actionable changes to Ubuntu.
[13:23] <cjwatson> There must be forums elsewhere for general chat about OS design ideas?
[13:23] <weasel_popper> I'm sure there are, but I don't wanna die :(
[23:04] <achiang> how does one force apt-get source to download source from an unauthenticated repo?
[23:04] <achiang> note that this is different from attempting to apt-get install from the repo
[23:05] <achiang> on trusty, apt-get source just bombs out with an error
[23:43] <darkxst> achiang, there is an allow-unauthenticated option