=== duflu_ is now known as duflu [06:49] Good morning, and happy new year! [06:50] happy new year pitti! [06:52] hey larsu, wie gehts? [06:54] pitti: sehr gut, danke. War die letzten zwei Wochen in Italien :) Und dir? [06:55] larsu: mir auch, wir waren 2 Wochen in Dresden [06:55] Stollen! [07:15] good morning and happy new year folks! [07:15] didrocks! Happy new year! [07:15] hey larsu! how is it going? :) [07:15] didrocks: good, except that it's Monday after the break ;) [07:15] you? [07:17] larsu: I'm great, thanks! Same feeling :) [07:18] hehe [07:20] bonjour didrocks, bonne année ! [07:21] bonne année à toi aussi pitti ! [07:32] didrocks: how to request removal of a package? [07:33] is this sufficient? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/im-switch/+bug/1407578 [07:33] Launchpad bug 1407578 in im-switch (Ubuntu) "Please remove im-switch from the archive" [Medium,New] [07:34] happyaron: it's perfect! I'm doing the removal then :) [07:35] great [07:35] once I can type my ssh key of course, waow, 5 trials! [07:37] happyaron: and done: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/im-switch/+publishinghistory [07:37] thanks! [07:37] yw ;) [07:54] Hello, desktop!\n [07:54] hey mlankhorst! You have EOL issues this year it seems :) [07:55] I know the lts stack was rejected, is that what you mean? [07:55] mlankhorst: just a reference to your \n ;) [07:55] ah :P [08:06] good morning desktopers [08:06] happy new year [08:06] Happy newyear y'all [08:07] bonjour seb128, bonne année ! [08:08] hey mlankhorst, happy new year to you too! [08:09] hey seb128, pitti, didrocks, Laney, happy new year [08:09] pitti, hey, wie gehts? glückliches neues jahr [08:09] happy new year darkxst [08:10] seb128: gut, danke! mais un mec français m'a envoyè trop de Schnaps ! :-) [08:14] pitti, ahah, il est bon ? ;-) [08:38] seb128: TBH we haven't tried it yet -- we've spent the two weeks in Dresden and didn't take it with us [08:38] pitti, k, no worry ;-) had fun there? [08:39] seb128: oh yes, and rather relaxing as we had plenty of time [08:39] I only just now picked up a cold, after having evaded it from at least five other people in the past 3 weeks :( [08:54] Morning all [08:55] hey willcooke [08:55] Hi seb128 - nice holiday? [08:56] excellent ones, thanks! [08:57] hey willcooke! [08:57] hey hey [08:57] hi willcooke! [08:57] yo larsu [08:59] you? [08:59] morning [08:59] and a happy newyear [08:59] happy new year everyone [08:59] hey mlankhorst ochosi [08:59] seb128, not bad at all - but I still think I could use a couple more days off ;) [09:00] hehe, same here ;-) [09:00] hey ochosi, happy new year [09:00] didrocks, did you see the backlight discussion on ubuntu-devel? [09:01] seb128: good news, on a MR for xdg-utils that we worked on >6months ago (you probably don't even remember): my patch has finally been merged upstream [09:02] https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xdg-utils/support_xfce/+merge/224076 [09:02] I remember it [09:02] great ;-) [09:03] willcooke: read it, didn't dive into it, but I'll give some tests in systemd [09:03] didrocks, nice, thanks [09:03] yw ;) [09:03] seb128: thing is though, the xdg-screensaver script in ubuntu is still a bit garbled and needs a cleanup. there is some duplicate code there (possibly a patch has been merged twice or erroneously) [09:03] seb128: maybe we could just pull in the upstream version? [09:04] ochosi, yeah, we should do that [09:05] yo [09:06] morning Laney [09:06] funny seeing activity after the previous weeks [09:09] hey Laney, happy new year! [09:09] Laney, you let IRC running during holidays? [09:09] happy new year Laney! [09:11] happy new year! [09:11] hey happyaron [09:12] willcooke: :) [09:13] hey willcooke seb128 didrocks happyaron [09:14] yeah I always leave IRC on [09:14] who doesn't :P [09:14] good hols? [09:15] excellent, thanks! you? [09:15] Laney, you should really stop IRC on holidays, make you good to totally cut from usual business for a while ;-) [09:15] Laney, how did the moving go btw? [09:16] well I have some personal channels :P [09:16] oh yeah, it went pretty well thanks [09:16] good to have more space! [09:17] can't be bothered to do the remaining painting though ... [09:23] happy new year Laney! [09:26] hey larsu! [09:26] how's it going? [09:26] how was italy? [09:27] awesome [09:27] hiked on capri and along the amalfi coast [09:27] very beautiful down there [09:27] how were your holidays? [09:35] relaxing, thanks! mainly spent time with family hanging out [09:36] back here for new years fireworks [09:37] nice :) [09:47] darkxst: have you noticed that ubuntu-gnome images fail to build btw? [09:49] Laney, yes, that will resolve itself as soon as the 3.14 bits get uploaded [09:50] I guess this is because of -desktop -> adwaita-icon-theme -(breaks)-> gnome-themes-standard-data <- gnome-themes-standard <- gnome-shell <- ubuntu-gnome-desktop [09:50] or similar [09:50] ok [09:50] Laney, yep thats about it [10:40] we need to get "window focus follows where I am looking" in to Mir :) [11:03] hm the monthly siren test is late.. [11:05] willcooke: isn't that called google glass ;) [11:06] davmor2, heh - not quite [11:06] davmor2, I get cross when I'm looking at my browser window but when I type it goes in to, say xchat [11:07] I want the computer to "just know" [11:07] :) [11:07] how hard can it be? [11:07] just enable your webcams, not sure you will like it :p [11:09] :D [11:10] I wonder if something like the camera in the wii mote could work? Reflect IR light off your eyes and determine, to begin with, which monitor you are looking at [11:10] * willcooke adds it to his list of things to play with [11:10] oh, on a different topic, is WUBI maintained any more? [11:12] looks like it is [11:14] it doesn't really work with windows 8 AFAIK, so kind of maintained, but not the way forward [11:14] ack [11:14] willcooke: yes and no, the windows installer bit I think has been stopped however the menu item that tells you about Ubuntu and allows you to reboot I think is maintained by canonical [11:15] I assume that secure boot makes it very hard to install a new OS from inside another one (by design I expect) [11:15] right [11:16] * didrocks spent a lot of time to install ubuntu on Julie's new laptop due to windows 8 and ubiquity not detecting windows [11:16] Would I be correct in advising someone to try the live USB stick as a way to try Ubuntu on a w8 machine? (or would that also be disabled?) [11:18] willcooke: live USB stick works, but it's not straightfoward to know if you start in UEFI mode or not (and that can depend on the bios) [11:18] ack [11:18] thx [11:19] willcooke: basically, the rule is "if you have the grub menu for starting the live usb, you are in UEFI mode" (notice that some people tell it's the """ugly""" version) [11:19] :D [11:19] otherwise, you have the nice graphic [11:19] looks unpolished TBH [11:19] and I will keep my other deception due to this new install for our 1o1 :) [11:20] (especially a lot of unity regressions) [11:20] heh [11:20] TBH, we really regressed [11:21] can we do anything about it this cycle? [11:21] (realistically) [11:22] willcooke: depends, we can get some unity 7 regressions fixed maybe, not sure about ubiquity though [11:23] willcooke: but that would need as well backporting to the LTS to be useful, so more work [11:23] * willcooke starts a new list of "things for 15.10" [11:23] should probably be a wiki page [11:23] willcooke: I'm just afraid that we keep telling "we'll see once we get unity 8" and the current situation getting worse and worse [11:23] willcooke: or a pad? [11:23] oh, good idea [11:24] do pads last for ever? [11:24] I need to reconfirm some bugs anyway on my own machine first though [11:24] yeah [11:24] do we have a "team site" on there already? [11:24] willcooke: just use http://pad.ubuntu.com/ [11:25] there are some for some topics like the gtk one (see !topic) [11:25] but nothing general AFAIK [11:25] I wonder how I get a nice URL [11:25] http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop [11:25] old skool content [11:26] delete it all :) [11:26] really delete it?? cos I will [11:26] maybe up to "Useful links" ... [11:26] it has versioning right? [11:27] there's Saved Revisions up top [11:27] I guess that works ?!?!?!?! [11:27] oh, yeah, the "for R" one, I thought it had been deleted [11:27] too late :) [11:27] Laney: it worked at least (used it when we got attacked) [11:28] regressions probably work as bugs though === tsdgeos_ is now known as tsdgeos [11:37] didrocks: feel like demoting vala-0.24 to universe? [11:39] Laney: should I check all rdepends or did you already? [11:40] reverse-depends -b src:vala-0.24 looks good to me [11:41] Laney: ok, I'll wait for your vala upload to propagate first and recheck without the valac dep to ensure [11:42] sure === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:25] * willcooke -> lunch [12:34] is there a way to make the buttons in gnome dialogues be at the bottom, where they have always been, instead of at the top of the window, which is not where i expect them to be and seems to me to break the way i read the dialogue? [12:40] Chipaca: they should be on the bottom in unity [12:42] it's controlled by the Gtk/DialogsUseHeaderbar xsetting, which is set by the desktop environment [12:43] didrocks: any idea why dbus service files in .local/share/dbus-1/services aren't picked up by the daemon? [12:43] * larsu is fixing gnome-termin [12:43] *al [12:47] larsu: no, I didn't dig into why g-t changed as you had more knowledge than I there :) [12:48] didrocks: right... I'll ask desrt what he did to make this work for him [12:49] yeah, seems the best lead [12:50] didrocks, what sort of unity7 regressions did you notice? [12:50] according to dbus' docs, it follows xdg spec, so it should work [12:50] I had the impression things slightly improve rather than regress since the LTS, no real feature work happened, it's mostly bugfixing [12:50] seb128: related to masking mounted devices in particular [12:51] masking from the launcher? [12:51] I guess it's a feature I don't use, so I didn't notice [12:51] it was supposed to store the things you don't want in gsettings iirc? [12:51] seb128: also, the other now well-known bug about adding an icon to the launcher via gsettings (which I was forced to do through gsettings only) [12:51] seb128: right, from the launcher [12:51] that's not working anymore? [12:51] yeah [12:51] right [12:52] k [12:52] at least, on Julie's laptop, I need to test here as well [12:52] well, the gsettings adding is a bit unfortunate [12:52] if you have a windows 8 machine, you have something like 4 partitions [12:52] but it's not an "normal user" scenario [12:52] well it becomes when some other program use it, like ubuntu-make [12:53] right, but dragging and dropping the .desktop file didn't work either [12:53] basically, unity always reverted [12:53] ah, I remember now, I wanted to remove the devices:// entry [12:53] from the dash to the launcher? [12:53] wfm [12:53] this doesn't work first because it always ignored on her laptop [12:53] like when ubuntu make adds an entry [12:53] then, I tried to kill it [12:54] change in gsettings [12:54] restart it [12:54] no devices:// but they were still listed [12:54] and finally I tried to blacklist them [12:54] (which is another option) [12:54] did you try to right click and pick the remove option? [12:54] and I checked the UUID twice [12:54] yeah, didn't work on her machine [12:54] :-( [12:54] works here though [12:55] I'm sure they clearly have a race in their settings handling [12:55] did you install her the LTS or utopic or vivid? [12:55] didrocks: you can't have a list in gsettings that is race-free [12:55] so yeah, 3 failures in a row, after a complex install, wasn't really a nice way to see our LTS [12:55] LTS [12:55] didrocks: but probably this isn't the problem here [12:56] larsu: unsure, maybe it is? [12:56] didrocks: did you update the list from two places at the same time? [12:56] didrocks, yeah, to be honest you are doing non-basic changes since you are fiddling with gsettings and non UI commands [12:56] but those should still be working :/ [12:56] larsu: I don't know, it shouldn't update on the unity side [12:57] seb128: well, "remove from launcher" is an UI command [12:57] didrocks: ya, they're probably writing an old value when they shouldn't [12:57] but yeah, even without this, this should still be working, covered by tests as we painfully got with unity7 at first [12:57] larsu: I guess so [12:59] didrocks, with some luck they are all the same bug and Trevinho is eventually going to fix it ;-) [13:00] seb128: I do hope as well, I guess it's andyrock who is assigned to them now though [13:00] wfm as well, as long as somebody fixes it [13:01] same here :) knowing that it's really worked on would be a good start though [13:01] hey guys [13:02] happy new year Trevinho! [13:02] Yes, andyrock is going to work on the gsettings stuff [13:02] You too didrocks [13:02] ! [13:02] thanks! [13:02] great to hear ;) [13:02] And everybody else [13:02] as seb128 told, let's hope they all have the same source [13:02] which is likely tbh [13:03] Trevinho, hey, happy new year! [13:03] Trevinho, did you have good holidays? [13:04] seb128: Yes thanks... I've been to ski in the alps near to the border between Italy and France.. Not too much snow, but had wonderful time anyway! [13:04] seb128: what about you? [13:04] great! [13:04] I had good holidays as well, mostly family time, nothing fancy but relaxing ;-) [13:08] I probably missed that... I really wanted to have time to sit down and hack a little on pet projects, but really I had neither a free minute to stay with my laptop in all these days... And while that's good, thing, I still have not realized that we've been in holidays :-) [13:11] Anyway... About the didrocks thing related to the devices and Launcher icons, that's something I started to work at it some time ago, and also I've some code ready, but I need to refractor some stuff and other priorities have come up... === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:23] larsu: ah, ok. my xsettings are broken then, but it's my fault :) thanks! [13:44] happy monday === tedg is now known as ted === Pici is now known as Guest50504 === Pici` is now known as Pici [13:57] hey desrt [13:57] willcooke: hello [13:57] good holidays? [14:03] desrt: happy Monday! [14:04] larsu: thx :D [14:04] seems to be a slow one around here.... [14:04] or maybe i'm just on the wrong timezone [14:04] got something for you: how does the dbus daemon pick up services in .local/share/dbus-1/sevices for you? [14:04] * pitti waves to desrt, happy new year! [14:05] desrt: you mention this in the bug about your gnome-terminal irssi profile [14:05] it should according to its docs, but doesn't work for me [14:06] pitti: same :) [14:06] pitti: i spent a lot of time working on getting jhbuild-on-ubuntu working again over the holidays [14:07] larsu: i vaguely recall some issue about this when i first installed debian [14:07] i also recall solving it very rapidly and i don't recall how [14:07] probably has to do with the session config file? [14:08] desrt: the session config file has set, which (according to the docs) adds xdg base directories [14:08] which include .local/share [14:08] odd. [14:09] ya [14:09] did the directory exist when you logged in? [14:09] yes [14:09] i'm beat for ideas :) [14:09] me too :/ [14:09] did the _files_ exist when you logged in? [14:09] yes [14:09] ...are they valid? :) [14:09] good question [14:10] where does dbus log? [14:10] http://pastebin.com/1aC4GkbT [14:10] this is the entirety of my setup [14:11] thanks [14:11] this is the rest of the entirety: http://pastebin.com/n3qZrQNi ;) [14:11] uh oh, I have s/D-BUS/D-Bus - maybe that's the issue [14:12] desrt: Thanks. in related news, gdk_set_program_class() is useless [14:12] you can't call it before gtk_init() [14:12] is that the wmclass-modifying stuff? [14:12] and calling it after overrides the passed --class (that gtk_init()) parses [14:12] desrt: yes [14:12] (sorry about the wrong paren) === Pici is now known as Guest63806 === Pici` is now known as Pici [14:28] Laney, I believe you're on the list of maintainers here, can you look at this? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=772148 [14:28] Debian bug 772148 in bustle "bustle: Split out bustle-pcap into a separate binary package" [Wishlist,Open] [14:30] desrt, ted, hey, happy new year [14:30] ted: ok [14:30] later though, patch piloting atm [14:30] larsu: just use app ids :) [14:30] the shell ignores wmclass if _GTK_APPLICATION_ID is set [14:30] desrt: unity doesn't [14:31] seriously? [14:31] patch bamf :) [14:31] (seriously) [14:31] meh [14:31] I know this is the best solution, and I know I shouldn't care [14:31] bamf was written to do everything it could to identify/categorise apps [14:31] but this is fucked up [14:31] WM_CLASS was totally fine [14:31] the fact that nobody maintains it means that it ignores a very high quality source of data [14:31] and now it's not because of reasons? [14:32] ie: if it was written today, _GTK_APPLICATION_ID would be at the top of the list of things it looked at [14:32] desrt, nobody maintains what? bamf? Trevinho does [14:32] desrt: also, WHY WHY WHY is gnome-terminal-server exist? [14:32] *does [14:33] why is that a problem for you? [14:33] imho it's the 'correct' way [14:33] g_set_prgname("gnome-terminal-server"); gdk_set_program_class("Gnome-terminal"); is just wrong [14:33] oh. because of that. [14:33] fix bamf. i'm serious. [14:33] Laney, Cool, thanks! [14:34] you'll be making the world a better place [14:34] desrt: ya, that's most practical. It's still a messed up situation [14:34] larsu: the only thing messed up about the situation is that _GTK_ is in the name of the property [14:35] desrt: why does gnome-terminal-server even exist? [14:35] also, awesome comments in that code: /* No-op required because GApplication is stupid */ [14:35] because this is actually the recommended way of implementing gapplication for apps that are concerned about behaving precisely as if they were not single-instance [14:35] larsu: well, that's chpe for you :) [14:36] desrt: gnome-terminal _is_ single instance [14:36] gnome-terminal has to care about lifecycle of the invoked processes [14:36] so its only option is to use a seperate service [14:36] those life cycles are bound to a window, aren't they? [14:36] yes [14:36] the trouble is this: [14:36] (well, tab really) [14:36] 1) script runs a gnome-terminal instance [14:36] 2) from that instance, user opens new window [14:37] 3) script stuff finishes, tab closes [14:37] 4) ...but gnome-terminal executable still runs [14:37] the only way to avoid that problem is by treating every /usr/bin/gnome-terminal as a client bound to a single tab and having the service separate [14:38] otherwise you end up with the (from the view of the caller) random chance that the process that you start is 'special' and won't behave as you want it to [14:38] hm, so `gnome-terminal` is more like gnome-terminal-launcher? [14:38] * larsu dislikes, but sees your point [14:38] apps that don't care about this stuff are better off to use the hybrid (--gapplication-service) stuff since it's a lot less fuss [14:39] but for apps that need it, the way that gnome-terminal is structured really is necessary [14:39] of course, you could put both halves into the same executable [14:39] and use IS_LAUNCHER [14:39] is gnome-terminal a shell script with a dbus-send in it? [14:40] larsu: no. but it could be. [14:40] right [14:40] larsu: more likely, it would be based on gapplication, though [14:40] gapplication(1) that is [14:40] ya [14:40] http://www.manpagez.com/man/1//gapplication/ [14:40] we even give an example of how to write such a shellscript :) [14:42] neat [14:42] but here's the kicker: gnome-terminal circumvents gapplication [14:42] it has its own private launching protocol [14:43] it does things that i didn't want to add to normal gapplication [14:43] like sending the full set of open fds... [14:43] (apparently "xterm -c 'foo >&3' 3> result" is a thing) [14:46] so uh.. probably it won't ever be rewritten as a shellscript :) [14:49] but ... why? [14:49] seems like something that's not really needed tbh === Guest93916 is now known as balloons [15:09] desert, larsu: feel free to open a bug in bamf and assign me, I'll take care of that === alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea [15:38] Trevinho: nice! [15:38] larsu: did you open that bug? [15:39] * desrt doesn't find one === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g [15:42] Trevinho: bug is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bamf/+bug/1407711 but it seems that LP won't let me assign bugs to you [15:42] Launchpad bug 1407711 in BAMF "match on _GTK_APPLICATION_ID" [Undecided,New] [15:45] desrt: no, I was napping :) [15:45] already dark here... [15:45] thanks for opening it [15:57] Laney: vala 0.24 demoted btw [15:57] nice [15:57] thanks! [15:58] yw ;) [15:58] phew, got all large tests running and passing again for ubuntu make [15:58] * didrocks can't wait to have the datacenter back up after a month [15:59] desrt: thanks [16:02] desrt: I just did the assignement for you [16:03] didrocks: thanks [16:03] seems that you have superpowers that i lack :) [16:03] desrt: shhhhhhhhhh I try to keep my super secret identity ;) [16:04] happy new year btw ;) [16:04] same to you [16:12] folks, quick question, when is the switch to systemd as default planned? [16:13] ochosi: looks like vivid cycle [16:13] thought as much, but no planned ETA within the cycle? [16:13] ochosi: when most of the blockers are fixed [16:13] blueprint is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1411-systemd-migration [16:13] ochosi: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1411-systemd-migration [16:14] oh good, i wasn't aware of the bp [16:14] ok, desrt beat me to it :p [16:14] thanks a bunch guys! :) [16:14] yw ;) [16:14] ochosi: you can already install it if you want to check in advance [16:14] and open bugs :) [16:14] right, i think i might do that [16:14] you can still have upstart & systemd in parallel (and next grub release will show both) [16:15] was mainly asking cause for xubuntu we thought we might only participate in a2 if systemd is default [16:15] right [16:15] ochosi: yeah, anyway, just give it a try if you have time, and do not hesitate to ask if you have any question [16:15]