[06:43] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[06:44] <pitti> Good morning
[06:44] <seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
[06:44] <pitti> seb128: whoa, you are early!
[06:44] <pitti> seb128: so-so, got a cold :/
[06:46] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[06:46] <larsu> morning!
[06:47] <larsu> pitti: gute besserung!
[06:47] <seb128> pitti, early yeah, trying to go back to "normal office hours" ;-)
[06:47] <pitti> larsu: guten Morgen, danke!
[07:20] <didrocks> good morning
[07:20] <seb128> oh, un didrocks
[07:20] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:21] <seb128> lut ;-)
[07:42] <darkxst> hey seb128 pitti didrocks larsu
[07:42] <seb128> hey darkxst
[07:43] <larsu> hi darkxst
[07:43] <darkxst> seb128, can you approve mutter in NEW?
[07:44] <didrocks> evening darkxst :)
[07:45] <seb128> darkxst, I can have a look in a bit
[07:46] <seb128> have some issues with launchpad atm
[07:46] <darkxst> seb128, thanks, its just the usual soname bump
[07:46] <seb128> didrocks, can you access the queue/new it?
[07:46]  * seb128 wonders what's going on there
[07:46] <darkxst> also need geoclue-2.0 and geocode-glib promoted for g-s-d
[07:46] <darkxst> if you can do that ?
[07:48] <didrocks> seb128: what can't you access at? the page?
[07:48] <didrocks> I can got it loaded
[07:48] <seb128> didrocks, it spins and doesn't load for me
[07:49] <seb128> but I've some other issues so maybe a routing/isp issue
[07:49] <didrocks> ok, will new them
[07:49] <seb128> thanks
[07:49] <Noskcaj> :)
[07:49] <didrocks> interesting soname, 0 as unstable but with a, b, c, d…
[07:50] <didrocks> darkxst: what do you mean about geoclue and geocode glib promotion?
[07:51] <didrocks> needs to be in main for newer g-s-d?
[07:51] <pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
[07:52] <darkxst> didrocks, that is a debian thing, don't ask me about it
[07:52] <darkxst> didrocks, yes main, see bug 1388294
[07:54] <darkxst> pitti, struggling with the heat again..
[07:54] <pitti> I'm taking some of it!
[07:54] <darkxst> sure, please do ;)
[07:55] <didrocks> darkxst: done and done
[07:56] <darkxst> didrocks, thanks!
[07:56] <didrocks> yw
[08:05] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[08:30] <desrt> good morning :D
[08:31] <didrocks> good <???> desrt :)
[08:31] <desrt> history is going to be made today!  (hopefully)
[08:32] <didrocks> kdbus committed to the kernel? :)
[08:33] <desrt> in three hours a stage 1 from an actual mission will attempt to land on a solid platform
[08:33] <desrt> xlander-style
[08:38] <larsu> oh hi desrt
[08:38] <larsu> up {early,late}?
[08:38] <desrt> not sure
[08:38] <desrt> was sleeping and had a dream about thread safety
[08:38] <desrt> needed to write some stuff down
[08:39] <darkxst> desrt SpaceX at it again?
[08:41] <darkxst> I havent had time to follow their doings recently, but seems they are the only ones that would even try that
[08:41] <desrt> darkxst: ya
[08:41] <desrt> launch is at 6:30am EST
[08:42] <mlankhorst> morning
[08:43] <didrocks> hey mlankhorst
[08:44] <mlankhorst> hey
[08:46] <mlankhorst> didrocks: you're archive admin right? can you drop all lts-utopic packages in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=0
[08:46] <mlankhorst> I need to re-upload for arch: all
[08:46] <mlankhorst> instead of i386/amd64 only
[08:49] <didrocks> mlankhorst: sure, doing
[08:50] <didrocks> *flushed*
[08:55] <willcooke> morning
[08:56] <desrt> willcooke: morning
[08:56] <willcooke> ?!?
[08:56] <willcooke> late or early?
[08:56] <desrt> both :)
[08:56] <willcooke> hehe
[08:58] <desrt> had some ideas that i wanted to hack on
[08:58] <desrt> and i kinda wanted to catch the real-life xlander game
[08:59] <seb128> hey desrt willcooke
[08:59] <desrt> seb128: good morning
[08:59] <willcooke> desrt, the space X thing?
[08:59] <willcooke> hey seb128
[08:59] <desrt> willcooke: ya.  pretty exciting.
[09:00] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[09:00] <desrt> i like when success is a 50/50 thing :)
[09:01] <willcooke> desrt, it sounds like an impossible goal to me :)  Targeting a 100m wide landing area which is bobbing up and down in the sea :)
[09:02] <willcooke> morning didrocks
[09:02] <desrt> i was super-psyched when they landed the last mars rover
[09:03] <desrt> that seemed impossible to me too
[09:03] <willcooke> :)
[09:03] <Laney> ahoy
[09:03] <desrt> i mean seriously... a rocket-powered hovercraft that gingerly lowers the rover to the surface on a string, cuts it loose and then flys off into the distance?
[09:03] <desrt> what is this?  a movie?
[09:03] <willcooke> ha
[09:03] <willcooke> morning Laney
[09:03] <desrt> Laney: hey there
[09:04] <desrt> Laney: i'm a debian user now :D
[09:04] <Laney> moving closer!
[09:04] <desrt> i also upgraded my schroot technology level at least twice since we last spoke :)
[09:05]  * desrt now union-mounts squashfs images stored in lvm with a tmpfs overlay
[09:05] <Laney> haha
[09:05] <didrocks> morning Laney
[09:05] <desrt> it's speedy =)
[09:06] <Laney> I used to use the LVM snapshot support
[09:06] <Laney> it's cool stuff
[09:07] <desrt> i'm worried about too much ssd traffic with the amount of abuse i throw at these things
[09:07] <seb128> howdy Laney
[09:07] <desrt> ie: constant installs of 100s of packages, only to blow it all away again moments later
[09:07] <desrt> also: fsync sucks
[09:07] <Laney> don't you do that in ram?
[09:07] <desrt> and eatmydata is so obnoxiously impure
[09:07] <desrt> Laney: exactly
[09:08] <desrt> Laney: that's why i use tmpfs instead of lvm snapshots
[09:08] <Laney> ah
[09:09] <desrt> i gotta tell you, i sure appreciate our ubuntu0 versioning thing
[09:10] <desrt> makes it real nice to share a /var/cache/apt/archives between debian and ubuntu installs
[09:11] <Laney> assuming the same binary packages work on both
[09:12] <desrt> well, it's no trouble, since the ubuntu ones have the 'ubuntu' in the name
[09:12] <desrt> and different arches stay out of each others way nicely as well
[09:12] <Laney> only if we've modified them
[09:12] <Laney> unmodified ones are copied over and rebuilt here
[09:12] <desrt> ah.  that's interesting.
[09:13] <desrt> i didn't run into any trouble.... yet :)
[09:13] <didrocks> right, you don't have the untouched debian packages rebuilt with the ubuntu toolset with this
[09:13] <didrocks> well, wait to start some gcc C++11 extensions with ABI incompatbility :)
[09:13] <Laney> I have local mirrors on the network here for fast package access
[09:15] <desrt> is there some sort of caching proxy i can run on my machine that uses /var/cache/apt/archives as a storage location?
[09:15]  * desrt would prefer not to get into mirroring everything
[09:15] <Laney> you might want to look into apt-cacher-ng
[09:16] <Laney> that's an apt proxy
[09:17] <desrt> bleh
[09:17] <desrt> i sorta liked the bindmount approach since it meant that the archives (a) didn't have more than one copy on my machine and (b) didn't take up tmpfs space
[09:18] <willcooke> mlankhorst, I'v got a meeting which clashes with our 1:1, so I'll ping you later on if that's ok
[09:18] <willcooke> maybe 30 mins later that planned
[09:19] <Laney> you could disable the cache :)
[09:19] <desrt> seems that i can configure apt to use a different cache dir -- maybe i'll just do that per-distro
[09:20] <desrt> zomg.  this is great
[09:20] <desrt> i can save the pkgcache this way as well
[09:21] <mlankhorst> sure
[09:22] <seb128> willcooke, did you decide to skip the meeting at the end or to do it anyway? I don't think I saw a reply to my comment here yesterday when you asked... either way sending a team meeting/nomeeting email would be good ;-)
[09:23] <willcooke> seb128, good call - done
[09:23] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[09:23] <seb128> willcooke, so you decided to have one, good ;-)
[09:24] <willcooke> seb128, I've got a few things to talk to you about.  I've got a meeting now, but maybe before lunch?  Quick hangout ok?
[09:24] <seb128> willcooke, sure
[09:24] <willcooke> thx
[09:24] <seb128> yw!
[09:26] <willcooke> hi tammy - have you got a hangout link yet?
[09:27] <tammy> willcooke, sorry... it takes use some time to recall the memories how to setup... (after long holidays...)
[09:27] <tammy> willcooke, here it is https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcZvBiG2p2OJ9KQP29lEqQTHG-VJ0xa1LGxwbOVcqfk-OEpXg?authuser=0&hl=en
[09:29] <willcooke> thanks tammy :)
[09:33] <tammy> willcooke, we can see your screen now
[09:45] <duflu> desrt: You really online still?
[09:45] <didrocks> seb128: if you open the dash and type "nautilus", is the icon enormous for you as well?
[09:45] <desrt> duflu: still?
[09:46] <seb128> didrocks, yes, it's one of the know issue with the new gtk
[09:46] <didrocks> ok
[09:46] <duflu> desrt: Or in some timezone where it's less surprising...
[09:46] <seb128> didrocks, see http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v the point 5 in the first section
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, well, that lists vim, but same issue
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, if you look to the dash you can see there are a bunch of those
[09:47] <duflu> desrt: Better late than never... is there any other workaround we can do outside of glib that's less ugly than this?... https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/mir/fix-1401488/+merge/245443
[09:47] <seb128> larsu, ^ what was the outcome of that discussion? unity needs to force the icon size?
[09:48] <didrocks> seb128: I only have nautilus for now, but I guess I don't use that many GNOMy apps
[09:48] <seb128> didrocks, weird, you should have things like "appareance" from unity-control-center
[09:49] <seb128> or update-manager
[09:49] <desrt> duflu: looks quite reasonable in fact :)
[09:49] <duflu> desrt: Thanks but doesn't feel it. Did I like to the right bug?
[09:49] <duflu> The right upstream bug
[09:50] <desrt> duflu: but uh.. g_main_context_invoke() is a thing
[09:50] <duflu> -like +link
[09:50] <duflu> Must be EOD
[09:50] <desrt> duflu: maybe.  still need to look at that.
[09:50] <larsu> seb128: yes, unity should force icons to be of the size it wants them to be
[09:50] <seb128> larsu, do you know if there is a bug open about that?
[09:50] <larsu> seb128: also, we should include correctly-sized icons in our theme, so that we don't get blurry icons ;)
[09:51] <larsu> seb128: Trevinho said he'll look into it. I don't know about a bug
[09:51] <seb128> larsu, is that the theme job to include icons for e.g update-manager?
[09:51] <desrt> duflu: i think this is not the same bug...
[09:51] <duflu> desrt: Perhaps but it started to sound the same in your comments upstream
[09:51] <duflu> Interesting that invoke function
[09:51] <duflu> Oh well
[09:51] <larsu> seb128: yes
[09:52] <seb128> larsu, hum, ok, I though apps were supposed to ship their own icons
[09:52] <desrt> duflu: ya.. it's a handy one
[09:52] <desrt> duflu: ya.. this is really not the same issue
[09:52] <duflu> desrt: Excellent. We all want more upstream glib bugs
[09:53] <larsu> seb128: hm, maybe you're right - I thought update-manager is one of the apps that has a themed icons
[09:53] <desrt> duflu: the upstream issue can only happen if you call g_main_context_unref() at the same time as g_source_unref()
[09:54] <duflu> desrt: OK, different issue... I might test out your suggested simpler fix
[09:54] <desrt> duflu: your bug will be easy to fix
[09:54] <duflu> Woo, I win
[09:54] <desrt> i just need to increase the refcount of the source while running the check/prepare funcs
[09:54] <duflu> something
[09:54] <desrt> we already do it while dispatching
[09:55] <duflu> desrt: I was going to do exactly that but your comments in the upstream bug resonated so I didn't try
[09:55] <desrt> the upstream issue is substantially more complicated
[09:55] <duflu> desrt: Oh, also in theory the iterator holds a reference
[09:55] <desrt> the gist is that once attached to a context, a source uses the context's lock for locking
[09:55] <desrt> which is a problem if the context is being finalized at the same time
[09:56] <duflu> desrt: I think the problem might go deeper. Those unlocked callbacks in theory should be ref'd by the iterator of the loop they're in
[09:56] <desrt> that's true.
[09:56] <duflu> The iterator should already be ref'ing the source
[09:56] <desrt> so it seems that the problem is not as you describe
[09:57] <duflu> desrt: Yes, kind of. And then it was holidays again so I stopped thinking about it
[09:57]  * duflu goes back to reproducing the bug
[09:57] <desrt> duflu: i'd love to see a small testcase that triggers the issue
[09:57] <seb128> larsu, what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1407192 ? did you discuss it with Trevinho?
[09:57] <desrt> otherwise...
[09:57] <desrt> <- this is my suspicious face
[09:58] <duflu> desrt: It's not small :(  I can give you valgrind error output though
[09:58] <seb128> didrocks, larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1404730 is the icon one
[09:59] <desrt> duflu: could it be something like your source finalize function making an assumption about what thread it runs in?
[09:59] <seb128> bregma, hey, not sure how you track work, but can you make sure that https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1404730 is on a list where it gets fixed for vivid?
[09:59] <desrt> and it being upset if it gets run in the thread that calls the unref?
[09:59] <duflu> desrt: Not sure. It's alf's code -- I'm still learning it
[10:00] <desrt> duflu: i'd love to see a testcase :)
[10:00] <duflu> Me too
[10:00] <duflu> One that takes less human effort
[10:00] <desrt> fwiw, i'm fixing yet another thread issue at the moment in file monitors...
[10:00] <seb128> bregma, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1407192 as well
[10:19] <duflu> Alright, reproducing the bug again will suck me in for the whole evening. I must resist for today...
[10:50] <seb128> lunch, bbiab
[11:03] <willcooke> seb128, anyone - whats the deal with Gnome Sound Recorder?
[11:03] <willcooke> This page suggests it "doesnt work":  https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/gnome-media/
[11:04] <willcooke> The guys in OEM are asking if we can include a simple sound recorder by default
[11:04] <willcooke> I think Audacity is probably a bit too heavy weight.
[11:04] <willcooke> They are looking for something more akin to Windows Sound Recorder
[11:05] <willcooke> If anyone has a suggestion for something which might meet their need, let me know
[11:08] <Laney> gnome-sound-recorder is the new gnome one
[11:10] <Trevinho> seb128, larsu: it's national holiday today here, I'll check those tomorrow.
[11:11] <Laney> bit buggy but I guess it'll be okay with a little work
[11:12] <Laney> bleh, it's gjs
[11:14] <didrocks> don't be too sad about being gjs :p
[11:15] <larsu> Trevinho: k, thanks. Enjoy!
[12:03] <pitti> seb128, Saviq: we've been dragging bug 1223401 for far too long; I investigated what gets broken and what gets fixed by getting back to the upstream API
[12:04] <pitti> so we only need to fix that test in unity8 (which is trivial and will be compatible with both APIs)
[12:04] <pitti> I'll file an MP
[12:04] <Saviq> pitti, sure, fine with me
[12:09] <willcooke> bah.  The rain waits until lunchtime.
[12:22] <seb128> Trevinho, enjoy the vac day! ;-)
[12:23] <pitti> Saviq: ok, done: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/unity8/notify-api-fix/+merge/245643
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, that still sounds wrong to me for the same reason I gave by then
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: how is it wrong?
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, if the abi change in an incompatible way the soname should change
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: well, you were never *supposed* to specify a free_func in Python
[12:23] <seb128> or at least the binary package name
[12:24] <pitti> using an obviously bogus argument which could never have worked properly isn't exactly a feature?
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, doesn't matter if the reasons are good or not, we can't change function signatures in an incompatible way without a proper transition
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, well, it makes "working" code hit an exception
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: well, but we never had a transition, and our patch breaks two other packages
[12:25] <pitti> so I'd rather fix it in the one bad spot than in the other two good ones
[12:25] <pitti> and the longer we keep it, the more of these incompatibilities we'll get
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, the issue is that you don't know what bad/good spot are out there in e.g custom scripts
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, right, I'm not saying we should fix it, but we should rename the binary package so the transition is properly handled by depends resolution
[12:25] <seb128> we shouldn't*
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: depends resolution doesn't apply to third-party scripts
[12:26] <seb128> well, that's the best we can do
[12:26] <seb128> out of not changing the abi
[12:26] <pitti> and "from gir import Notify" always just uses the latest API by default
[12:26] <pitti> so even bumping it wouldn't automagically hep
[12:26] <pitti> "help"
[12:27] <seb128> well it would help to resolve partial upgrades and listing rdepends that didn't update their abi
[12:27] <seb128> or rather how they use the function
[12:27] <seb128> we would know that things depending on <new_name> got fixed/adapted
[12:27] <seb128> and things depending on the old name have an issue/needs to be looked at
[12:27] <seb128> no?
[12:27] <pitti> well, I went over all rdepends
[12:27] <seb128> the archive rdepends
[12:27] <seb128> not ppa, 3rd party, etc
[12:28] <seb128> you could use the same argument to not rename libraries on soname changes
[12:28] <seb128> "I handled the rdepends, no need to rename"
[12:28] <pitti> well, for libraries there's actually a physical change in the binary package
[12:28] <pitti> which isn't true for gir/python, they aren't versioned in the samw way
[12:28] <seb128> well in that case it's a physical change in the function sig
[12:28] <seb128> code that used to run hit an exception
[12:29] <seb128> anyway I made my point and I don't care enough to argue over that
[12:29] <pitti> well, the fun thing is that these days the exception is entirely different from what we originally had in 2013 when we introduced the reversion
[12:29] <seb128> if you just want to go ahead by dealing only with our own rdepends fine with me
[12:29] <pitti> in 2013 we didn't have the "magic" user_data handling yet
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, I'm probably just overcautious/strict with compat, I guess that seeing the number of rdepends dealing with it without rename is fine
[12:32] <seb128> pitti, it's likely going to bite some users with their script, but oh well
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: nah, I don't think so
[12:32] <pitti> seb128: it's already a very exceptional corner case to specify a free_func argument (or two pieces of user_data) in the first place
[12:32] <seb128> well, reality is that some of our tests did that
[12:33] <seb128> so there is a non null chance that somebody else out there did that as well
[12:33] <pitti> sure
[12:33] <pitti> but oh well, dist-upgrade -- we break third-party stuff all the time
[12:33] <seb128> right, I was going to say
[12:33] <seb128> I wish that statement was wrong
[12:33] <seb128> but reality is that we are far from perfect
[12:34] <seb128> and that small case is not likely to make a real difference
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, tldr, go for the change ;-)
[12:34] <pitti> seb128: heh, ok; I think Saviq is an appropriate reviewer for that MP?
[12:34] <seb128> pitti, yes
[12:39] <Saviq> pitti, yup, will do
[12:39] <pitti> Saviq: thanks
[12:40] <seb128> Saviq, pitti, we should also make sure we land unity8 and tghe libnotify update together then
[12:41] <Saviq> seb128, didn't pitti describe that as long as unity8 gets in first, it'll be fine?
[12:41] <seb128> oh, right
[12:41] <seb128> all good then ;-)
[12:42] <pitti> right, it's backwards compatible
[13:18] <seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, what's the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1386170 ?
[13:36] <Sweet5hark> seb128: should be fixed by http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/commit/?h=ubuntu-utopic-4.3&id=d816d3dfe756ac975e056d053d17ee384023e416 and http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/commit/?h=ubuntu-utopic-4.3&id=f3087d6e35db84e19855b47015251d1619f758e5 in the ppa, not SRUed yet.
[13:37] <mdeslaur> seb128: any comment on bug 1404244 ? It uses client side decorations...
[13:38] <Sweet5hark> seb128:  note that there is feedback pending still https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1386170/comments/13 -- although we might go forward without that after a month ...
[13:47] <seb128> mdeslaur, I would say "require to use the wm decoration under Unity before upload"
[13:47] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, that's what I was thinking, just wanted to make sure, thanks
[13:47] <seb128> Sweet5hark, ok, can you ping again to the get the feedback otherwise? that is in the sponsoring queue for a while, I wonder if we should just un-subscribe sponsors since it seems you are tracking it anyway?
[13:47] <seb128> mdeslaur, yw!
[13:48] <seb128> Laney, that eog upload, I though the libgrip stuff could be dropped with new gtk gestures?
[13:52] <Sweet5hark> seb128: hmmm, you mean https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libreoffice ?
[13:52] <seb128> Sweet5hark, no, http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[13:54] <Sweet5hark> seb128: ah, ok.
[14:02] <Sweet5hark> seb128: tried to unsubscribe sponsors, but seem to lack perms on lp? see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1386170/comments/14
[14:03] <seb128> Sweet5hark, did it for you
[14:03] <Sweet5hark> seb128: oh and: Happy new year! ;)
[14:03] <Sweet5hark> seb128: thx alot
[14:03] <seb128> Sweet5hark, danke, happy new year to you as well!
[14:22] <Laney> seb128: hopefully but I didn't check yet
[14:51] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: so dariusz commented, we should not block the sru ...
[15:15] <willcooke> folks (seb128) - got to do the school run.  I should be back by half past, but if not, please hold for a couple of mins.
[15:21] <popey> didrocks: just updated ubuntu-make... man page says {ide,games,go,android} (note games, plural) your blog post says "game"
[15:24] <FJKong_> happy new year
[15:24] <didrocks> popey: actually, the man page is right and of course, my blog post is wrong, fixing! thanks :)
[15:24] <popey> np
[15:25] <popey> good to see someone reads your blog posts, huh? ☻
[15:25] <didrocks> popey: yeah, it was *you* all that time along!
[15:26] <didrocks> seb128: on the "firefox looses its launcher icon under unity", did we need more debug info? (as it's an italian holidays, I don't ping Marco ;))
[15:26] <didrocks> just telling that because it's the case here for instance
[15:31] <willcooke> back
[15:31] <desrt> m is for meeting
[15:31] <desrt> and that's good enough for me :D
[15:31] <willcooke> Roll call:  attente_, desrt, didrocks, FJKong_, happyaron, Laney, larsu, mlankhorst, qengho, seb128, Sweet5hark1, tkamppeter,
[15:32] <didrocks> hey
[15:32] <seb128> _o/
[15:32] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-01-06
[15:32] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  6 15:32:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:32] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:32]  * willcooke got the year right :)
[15:32] <willcooke> Sorry for the delay folks
[15:32] <mlankhorst> hey
[15:32] <desrt> welcome to 2016!
[15:32] <seb128> didrocks, I don't think so, it was on the gtk update epad as well, likely a bamf/gtk issue
[15:32] <willcooke> Ok, so there probably wont be a whole lot of updates from the last two weeks, but as we discussed yesterday
[15:32] <seb128> didrocks, it happens consistently on firefox/tb after running/closing them once
[15:33] <willcooke> we can flesh out what's happening in the next week
[15:33]  * seb128 shuts up for meeting ;-)
[15:33] <willcooke> :D
[15:33] <willcooke> We shouldnt be too long
[15:33] <willcooke> #topic attente_
[15:33] <willcooke> attente_, Hey!  Any thoughts on what the plan of action is for the next week?
[15:34] <attente_> hi, mousing over a parent menu still doesn't work with the gtk-mir backend
[15:34] <attente_> but i'm not sure if it's worth fixing or if we should wait for more mir support because it might get fixed on that side
[15:35] <willcooke> tricky one
[15:35] <willcooke> lets see how it goes - it's not too long until the sprint
[15:35] <desrt> attente_: is there another semi-obvious way to close the menu and go back to the parent?
[15:35] <willcooke> and we can grind some of these out there
[15:35] <desrt> ie: is the user completely stuck and has to start over again, or is there something else they can do?
[15:36] <attente_> desrt: yeah, it's fine to just click outside or press escape
[15:36] <desrt> (keynav maybe?)
[15:37] <willcooke> that sounds ok
[15:37] <desrt> annoying, but workable
[15:37] <willcooke> yah
[15:37] <willcooke> ok, well lets take some more deep conversations out of the meeting
[15:38] <willcooke> anything else before we move on attente_ ?
[15:38] <attente_> that's all
[15:38] <willcooke> cool, thanks
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic didrocks
[15:38] <tkamppeter> willcooke, spring? when? where?
[15:38] <desrt> >:|
[15:38] <willcooke> tkamppeter, is a mir sprint
[15:38] <tkamppeter> OK
[15:39] <desrt> i'd like to file a grievance with the union
[15:39] <willcooke> oh
[15:39] <willcooke> yeah
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic desrt
[15:39] <desrt> :D
[15:39] <desrt> unions work so nicely!
[15:39] <willcooke> I'll get my ABC wall chart back up on the wall
[15:40] <desrt> so i spent the holidays doing a whole lot of work on getting jhbuild running nicely on debian-based systems
[15:40] <desrt> which apparently nobody put much effort into since pitti tried that a while ago
[15:40] <desrt> now that i'm back to 'real work' i'm looking into fixing a threading issue in file monitors that causes crashes if you unref a file monitor just as events are coming in... which happens a lot in the case of the appinfo monitor
[15:41] <desrt> that's actually a really tricky problem with some interesting engineering inside of it -- so probably that takes me a week
[15:41] <desrt> on the mir-is-crashing front, i had a chat with duflu and i'm pretty convinced that the crash they're seeing is not the bug that he linked to, and maybe not a glib bug at all
[15:41] <desrt> he's going to try to get more information and a testcase
[15:42] <desrt> if that ends up being a glib thing, then that's my next priority as soon as he gets back to me
[15:42] <desrt> other then that, i plan to go back to working on kdbus stuff
[15:42] <desrt> *than
[15:43] <desrt> (that's all)
[15:43] <willcooke> excellent, thanks desrt
[15:43] <willcooke> sounds like a busy week in store
[15:43] <desrt> busy but interesting
[15:43] <willcooke> also hope you're not too sad that the launch got scrubbed
[15:44] <willcooke> ;)
[15:44] <desrt> the work touches on a large issue i've been trying to better-define for a while
[15:44] <willcooke> another late night tonight?
[15:44] <desrt> willcooke: we get another try on friday :)
[15:44] <willcooke> oh Friday?  kk
[15:44] <willcooke> it's gonna be fun to watch (if it's live)
[15:44] <willcooke> anyway
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic didrocks
[15:44] <didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
[15:44] <didrocks> * Release Ubuntu Make 0.4 bringing Go, stencyl and finishing up the github move. More details at http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Ubuntu-Make-0.4-starts-the-new-year-adding-Go-support
[15:44] <didrocks> * Had to fix for 0.3 some tests after the release, as desktop VM and tests jenkins jobs are still not put back online by the CI team. s-jenkins is still not accessible
[15:44] <qengho> desrt: are you near launch site?
[15:44] <didrocks> Systemd:
[15:44] <didrocks> * Added an option for grub when multiple init systems are detected to select which init system to boot up with (in debian, needs sync up in ubuntu)
[15:44] <didrocks> * Started to work on the fsck <-> plymouth integration, fsckd deamon listening to multiple sockets done, more work needed though
[15:45] <didrocks> Mic:
[15:45] <didrocks> * Debug some apt with private ppas issues
[15:45] <didrocks> * Archive admin and some MIR duties
[15:45] <didrocks> .
[15:45] <desrt> qengho: (no.  just watched live streams)
[15:45]  * qengho nods.
[15:45] <desrt> didrocks: that grub thing was a nice idea.  probably ends up being a real nice way to unbrick your system for some people
[15:46] <willcooke> thanks didrocks
[15:46] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, the issue is that some services enablement state will get unsync if you switch between them too much, but well
[15:46] <didrocks> that's the risk :)
[15:47] <willcooke> #topic FJKong_
[15:47] <FJKong_> testing memory leak and stability of sogou changing skin, confirmed there’s little memory leak when changing skin
[15:47] <FJKong_> Suspect memory leaks when switching between windows, TODO.
[15:47] <FJKong_> Tested 18 new skins from Sogou for realese, 3 have problems.
[15:47] <FJKong_> unity dash search: sent email to developers, need more help
[15:48] <willcooke> thanks FJKong_, let me know if I can help with getting you some support
[15:48] <didrocks> what is the issue with the dash search?
[15:48] <FJKong_> I need help on next step
[15:49] <FJKong_> how uniy index local file
[15:49] <FJKong_> and do searching
[15:49] <seb128> didrocks, having it to work with typing chinese in english, e.g "ni hao" to find
[15:49] <seb128> heˈlō,həˈlō
[15:49] <seb128> 您好
[15:49] <didrocks> I can help getting you up to speed your knowledge on that, let's sync up after the meeting or tomorrow
[15:50] <FJKong_> I have done work to map Chinese to pinyin
[15:50] <FJKong_> cool, didrocks
[15:50] <qengho> (That's "nin", btw.)
[15:50] <didrocks> ok, let's see what you need and if I can help (not sure I can help on what seb128 is mentioning though)
[15:50] <didrocks> but yeah, pointers at least :)
[15:50] <FJKong_> qengho: :P
[15:50] <willcooke> thanks didrocks
[15:51] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:51] <willcooke> not sure if happyaron is around
[15:51] <willcooke> I'll give him a moment and then move on
[15:51] <willcooke> actually, let's move on and we can always come back....
[15:51] <willcooke> happyaron, ^^
[15:51] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:51] <Laney> HELLO
[15:51] <Laney> • Happy new year!
[15:51] <Laney> • Some small-ish updates
[15:51] <Laney> ∘ Remove valac from vala-0.24; demote
[15:51] <Laney> ∘ Update cheese (on hold, see below)
[15:52] <Laney> ∘ Update eog
[15:52] <desrt> HELLO LANEY
[15:52] <Laney> • Patch pilot
[15:52] <Laney> • Discover libical transition, push a bit
[15:52] <Laney> ∘ cyrus-imapd-2.4 needs a debhelper merge (scary), will do
[15:52] <Laney> • Find out transition tracker has been broken since December 18th. Fix this with a workaround and propose a SRU with the real fix (bug #1407933)
[15:52] <Laney> • (re: cheese) Find out that appstream-util is supposed to replace appdata-tools as shipping the binary to validate appdata files (-util is in universe ATM and has coinstallability problems with -tools; debian bug #768269). Supposed to be a drop-in replacement; start packaging work and test builds to confirm this.
[15:52] <Laney> ✻
[15:52] <willcooke> thanks Laney
[15:53] <Laney> np
[15:53] <willcooke> While we're here - do you think there is any chance/point to including the new JS based sound recorder in the desktop?  Presumably OEM could include it in their custom builds if required?
[15:53] <Laney> also now /usr/bin/m4 is hanging
[15:53] <Laney> weird
[15:53] <willcooke> is it mature enough?
[15:53] <seb128> willcooke, the issue is more to drag another stack/interpreter on the default image
[15:54] <willcooke> gotya, sounds like a bad idea
[15:54] <seb128> well need to be look at, I'm unsure what depends we are exactly talking about
[15:54] <willcooke> I can probably find a small app which can do what they need and suggest that it gets in to their build
[15:54] <seb128> but maybe there is a simple sound recorded in universe we could use as well
[15:54] <willcooke> yeah
[15:54] <willcooke> I'll take a lool
[15:54] <willcooke> look
[15:54] <seb128> recorder*
[15:55] <willcooke> sorry lool - ignore
[15:55]  * happyaron is around..
[15:55] <didrocks> -> on quote page
[15:55] <lool> willcooke: dont take me
[15:55] <mlankhorst> do you tab complete your words?
[15:55] <willcooke> I try and tab complete EVERYTHING
[15:55] <mlankhorst> that will end Wellark
[15:55] <willcooke> XD
[15:56] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:56] <willcooke> hey happyaron
[15:56] <happyaron> hi
[15:56] <happyaron> * Removal of im-switch (LP: #1407578) with help from didrocks
[15:56] <happyaron> * Adding diagnose information collection script for sogoupinyin
[15:56] <happyaron> * Work with people to get cell dict ready for next release
[15:56] <happyaron> * Work on integration of automatical testing for sogou engine kernel to auto build system
[15:57] <happyaron> * Add clang tests for the build system
[15:57] <happyaron> * Updates: fcitx-cloudpinyin, fcitx-googlepinyin, fcitx-anthy
[15:57] <happyaron> * staging opencc to experimental, API break
[15:57] <happyaron> * Rough check of 360 for linux
[15:58] <happyaron> over
[15:58] <willcooke> sos
[15:58] <willcooke> wow
[15:58] <willcooke> You've been busy
[15:58] <happyaron> a little bit, :)
[15:58]  * willcooke really should take more care over his typing 
[15:58] <willcooke> thanks happyaron
[15:58] <willcooke> #topic larsu
[15:58] <larsu> hey, happy new year!
[15:59] <larsu> I've mostly dealt with backlog and sorting out stuff to do for the next weeks
[15:59] <larsu> worked with marco on the bamf issue (to make didrocks happy)
[15:59] <larsu> found some new regressions in gtk
[16:00] <seb128> larsu, do you note those somewhere?
[16:00] <larsu> tried to backport upstream scrollbars to finally get rid of the transparency issues (as new ones came up)
[16:00] <didrocks> \o/
[16:00] <larsu> but those seem to be split over multiple commits
[16:00] <larsu> not sure yet if it's worthwhile for this cycle
[16:01] <seb128> willcooke, did we ever get feedback from design&co if using those would be ok?
[16:01] <larsu> seb128: can copy them to the pad after the meeting
[16:01] <willcooke> erm
[16:01] <seb128> larsu, danke
[16:01] <larsu> seb128: some are in bugs already, like the gedit line number thing
[16:01] <willcooke> I think we agreed we would get a demo set up and show it to JohnLea_
[16:01] <willcooke> and go from there
[16:01] <larsu> seb128: yes we did, john lea said they're fine
[16:01] <seb128> willcooke, yeah, but he didn't show up at this meeting in washington iirc?
[16:01] <seb128> larsu, great
[16:02] <willcooke> I'll catch up with him and get his blessing, just to be safe
[16:02] <larsu> seb128, willcooke: I met him in some meeting room and showed him upstream
[16:02] <didrocks> and they know it will mean we are dropping them for gtk2 apps then?
[16:02] <JohnLea_> willcooke, thanks, let's sync when you are next in
[16:02] <larsu> didrocks: psssst!
[16:02] <willcooke> :) thanks JohnLea_
[16:03] <willcooke> larsu, I can use that demo app right?
[16:03] <larsu> willcooke: which demo app?
[16:03] <willcooke> the one with all the widgets in iut
[16:03] <willcooke> it
[16:03] <larsu> right, yes (it's called gtk3-widget-factory in gtk3-samples)
[16:03] <willcooke> great
[16:04] <larsu> eof
[16:04] <willcooke> I think it's been long enough now that we should go round the loop again, just to be sure.  It wont take too long
[16:04] <willcooke> I'll aim to have it all wrapped up in the next week
[16:04] <willcooke> I can demo it over a hangout
[16:04] <seb128> oh, fun gtk3-widget-factory has no bg
[16:04] <seb128> you can see through it
[16:04] <larsu> ya
[16:04] <seb128> make sure to demo over a blank gedit or something ;-)
[16:05] <larsu> it's not the only one :/
[16:05] <willcooke> :)
[16:05] <larsu> or run with GTK_MODULES=
[16:05] <larsu> ah wait, you need to run master anyway
[16:06] <didrocks> remember that a lot of visual basic code wanted to do that
[16:06] <didrocks> so it's really a feature!
[16:06] <seb128> :-)
[16:06] <willcooke> ok, I'll have a play tomorrow
[16:06] <willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Happy newyear!
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Attempting to prevent vt switch on suspend for nouveau.
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Sent a patch for a kernel issue I was hitting with netboot. [RFC PATCH] unlock rtnl mutex in ic_open_devs while waiting
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Fixing pthread regression in wine https://bugs.launchpad.net/wine/+bug/1393196
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Wine may soon merge the winepulse driver, added some fixes from their sound maintainer.
[16:07] <mlankhorst> - Make the standalone xmir patch work on 1.16 and 1.17 branches through some ifdefs since 1.16 works slightly better.
[16:07] <mlankhorst> I'm sort of waiting for mir exposing the new events to clients
[16:10] <willcooke> thanks mlankhorst
[16:10] <willcooke> #topic qengho
[16:10] <qengho> * Fixed several problems with Flash plugin.
[16:10] <qengho> * I *was* fixing and porting Intel's wayland/ozone/chromium so I could extend it and get Mir. That was a nightmare. I am now starting from Ozone demo and adding features. Easier.
[16:10] <qengho> EOF
[16:10] <willcooke> sorry folks, my internet just went out for a sec or something
[16:11] <willcooke> mlankhorst, sorry, were you done before I moved on?
[16:11] <mlankhorst>  yaeh
[16:11] <willcooke> kk, qengho you done too?
[16:11] <qengho> Two items. EOF.
[16:11] <willcooke> kk
[16:11] <willcooke> thanks
[16:11] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[16:12] <seb128> hey
[16:12] <seb128> * Happy new year!
[16:12] <seb128> * yesterday, lot of catching up after 3 weeks of holidays (emails, lists, uploads, ...)
[16:12] <seb128> * today, some catching up still, spent a good part of the day helping on the sponsoring queue backlog-after-holidays
[16:12] <seb128> * next, review current state of u-s-s and unity8-desktop to figure out what to work on next exactly

[16:13] <willcooke> thx seb128
[16:13] <seb128> yw!
[16:16] <seb128> willcooke, says his IRC is acting again
[16:18] <desrt> uh oh.  the one human who meetingology obeyed is now dead.
[16:18] <desrt> this is the start of one of the terminator movies, right?
[16:18] <Sweet5hark1> desrt: lets see if meetingology grows "at a geometric rate" now ...
[16:19] <willcooke> #topic SweetShark
[16:19] <seb128> lol
[16:19] <didrocks> weak!
[16:19] <willcooke> mwahaha
[16:19] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, your turn!
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - end-of-year vacation
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - end-of-year administrative task (upstream, foundation)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - some upstream writer refactoring for performance and readability (boring blog post follows)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - some travel and event coordination
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - some bug tracker gardening
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - mail backlog
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - survived 31c3, twas awesome: over 10.000 hackers on four days (122 hours of talks are at http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/index.html )
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - state of releases:
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> -- precise on 3.5.7+patches, needs investigation for bump to a new major (not urgent)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> -- trusty on 4.2.7+patches, could be bumped to 4.2.8 (we have most of the upstream patches already, so mostly to be in sync with upstream version number)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> -- utopic on 4.3.3, 4.3.4 in queue, 4.3.5 in PPA. When 4.3.4 is in updates, I guess we will go directly to 4.3.6 after that (release upsteam end of this month)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> -- vivid: 4.4.0~beta2 in the prereleases ppa, upstream is at rc1. I need to bump that (IMHO, we should not wait for 4.4.0 upstream final and bump an rc in vivid in the next weeks for early testing)
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> - happy new year everyone!
[16:20] <Sweet5hark1> EOF
[16:20] <willcooke> I think I'm back
[16:20] <seb128> wb willcooke, you missing halft Sweet5hark1's update
[16:20] <willcooke> I'll check the minutes
[16:20] <seb128> k
[16:20] <willcooke> right, so #topic tkamppeter
[16:20] <seb128> desrt tricked the bot through nick forgery :p
[16:21] <desrt> willcooke: we also discovered that meetingology's loyalty to you is wavering at best
[16:21] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[16:21] <willcooke> :D
[16:22] <desrt> lol
[16:22] <tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting Summit 2015: Sent out first e-mails to potential speakers.
[16:22] <tkamppeter> - qpdf: Synced newest version from Debian Experimental.
[16:22] <tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Corrected Trusty SRU upload, still waiting for approval.
[16:22] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[16:23] <tkamppeter> Sorry, somehow my IRC acted up.
[16:23] <desrt> tkamppeter: seems to be a good day for that :)
[16:25] <willcooke> hrm, I think Freenode is sick
[16:25] <willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
[16:25] <willcooke> let's wrap while we can
[16:25] <seb128> could be one of the servers
[16:25] <Laney> so much for a quick meeting
[16:25] <seb128> seems to work here
[16:25] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[16:25] <seb128> thanks willcooke
[16:25] <willcooke> any other business?
[16:25] <desrt> important announcement:
[16:25] <desrt> lenovo showed a new range of thinkpads at CES
[16:26] <desrt> they unscrewed (mostly) the keyboard and put the physical buttons back for the trackpoint
[16:26] <seb128> with old keyboards back?
[16:26] <desrt> very important news!
[16:26] <didrocks> \o/
[16:26] <Laney> good news in the year of the laptop refresh
[16:26] <Sweet5hark1> \o/
[16:26] <seb128> lol
[16:26] <Laney> (for me)
[16:26] <willcooke> yayay
[16:26] <seb128> for those like thinkpads at least ;-)
[16:26] <seb128> (I still find them not nice looking)
[16:27] <Laney> they do look quite ... functional
[16:27] <seb128> right
[16:27] <desrt> probably i get a thinkpad next, but i think i can afford to wait for the skylake ones :)
[16:27]  * Laney comes from having macbook pros for the last 8ish years
[16:27] <willcooke> Those of you going to the Mir sprint, please get travel booked.
[16:27] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[16:27] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  6 16:27:55 2015 UTC.
[16:27] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-01-06-15.32.moin.txt
[16:27] <desrt> willcooke: thanks for the reminder :)
[16:27] <seb128> I think I would take a macbook over a thinkpad ;-)
[16:28] <desrt> seb128: if that's your attitude then you deserve what you get :p
[16:28] <seb128> lol
[16:28] <seb128> I'm quite happy with my latitude in fact
[16:28] <seb128> it's just a bit heavy compared to e.g the xps
[16:28] <desrt> i'd like to point out the grab-bag of extra hardware that Laney has to cart around in order to make his laptop into a usable machine
[16:29] <desrt> and mention that i've never seen that happen with anyone's thinkpad...
[16:29] <seb128> lol
[16:29] <seb128> wait for Laney's refresh :p
[16:29] <Laney> haha
[16:29] <Laney> that is all purely optional
[16:29] <Laney> unless thinkpads come with risers ...
[16:29] <desrt> Laney: my old one did
[16:30] <desrt> it had a wedge-shaped battery that connected to the dock connector and served this purpose as a very nice side effect
[16:34] <Laney> that is handy
[16:34] <Laney> improved battery life is one of the things I am most looking forward to
[16:34] <Laney> this thing only gets about 2.5 hours, if that
[16:34] <desrt> some of the new models claim 20 hours
[16:35] <desrt> so in linux, probably at least like 4 hours and 15 minutes
[16:55] <willcooke> didrocks, http://www.webupd8.org/2015/01/ubuntu-make-04-released-with-go-support.html
[16:57] <didrocks> willcooke: yeah, already read it, but do not hesitate if you see anything else :)
[16:57] <willcooke> :D
[16:57] <didrocks>  I'm always pleased by the detail of their articles + screenshots and such
[16:58] <willcooke> the webupd8 guys always do a good job of that
[16:58] <willcooke> but that domain name though
[16:58] <willcooke> ;p
[16:58] <didrocks> ahah, yeah ;)
[18:21]  * willcooke -> EOD
[18:21] <willcooke> ta ta
[19:09] <Noskcaj> seb128, I tested gnome-mahjongg on xfce, but since you have more unity fixes in git, i suppose we can't sync
[19:11] <Noskcaj> please ignore that sync bug, i can't get a titlebar in xfce now.
[19:29] <seb128> Noskcaj, hey, ok, can you write that on the bug and mark it invalid?
[19:46] <Noskcaj> seb128, done. Do you have time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/libgweather/3.14/+merge/245275 ?