[16:58]  * slangasek waves
[16:58] <slangasek> who's chairing today? I hope it's not me ;)
[16:58] <mdeslaur> hi!
[16:58] <mdeslaur> it's pitti I believ
[16:58] <mdeslaur> believe
[16:59] <pitti> yeah, the wiki says so
[16:59]  * pitti waves too, happy new year everyone!
[16:59] <mdeslaur> happy new year!
[17:00] <pitti> this should be a quick one anyway
[17:00]  * pitti rings the bell
[17:00] <pitti> #startmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  6 17:00:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:00] <pitti> #topic action review
[17:00]  * pitti prods meetbot, *shrug*
[17:01] <pitti> infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
[17:01] <pitti> not sure, but this feels dead by now, and we've been through some rounds of discussion already
[17:01] <pitti> mdeslaur to respond to freetype thread
[17:01] <pitti> DONE
[17:01] <pitti> pitti to respond to MRE for KDE frameworks thread
[17:01] <pitti> DONE (waiting for Kubuntu response)
[17:02] <pitti> #action ML review
[17:02] <meetingology> ACTION: ML review
[17:02] <pitti> nothing new since last meeting except https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-December/002058.html which I did
[17:02] <pitti> zarro community bugs
[17:02] <pitti> #topic AOB
[17:02] <pitti> ?
[17:03] <mdeslaur> hi infinity!
[17:03] <mdeslaur> happy new year
[17:03]  * pitti waves to infinity, happy new year!
[17:03] <infinity> I've spent the last few days moving and cleaning.  Not the best start. :)
[17:04]  * pitti actually enjoyed some house cleaning
[17:04] <infinity> Germans are a weird people.
[17:04] <pitti> anyway: infinity: "infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread" - is that still relevant to you?
[17:04] <pitti> infinity: Jawoll!
[17:04] <infinity> It's probably still relevant, and probably still not done. :/
[17:05] <pitti> infinity: I mean because we already went through some rounds of discussion, but it seems you might want to ask them something else still
[17:05] <infinity> If others reached a concensus, I'm happy to take the item off the agenda, but if it's stalled, I'll look.
[17:06] <pitti> I must say I'm still not fully convinced about how they make sure to not break installations from earlier versions
[17:06] <pitti> but I asked like 3 times already, and broken record etc. pp.
[17:06] <infinity> The plan was a heavy upgrade testing framework, but I'm not sure if they actually have a real plan, or just a hand-wavy one.
[17:07] <pitti> it's most probably ok, and their product, but I wanted to see how they ensure backwards compat
[17:07] <infinity> There've been some rather heavy staffing changes in that team recently, so it might be worth reopening the discussion in the new year anyway.
[17:09] <pitti> *nod*
[17:09] <pitti> so, AOB, take 2?
[17:09] <pitti> AOB take #3
[17:09] <slangasek> nothing here
[17:09] <stgraber> nothing here
[17:09] <pitti> aaand done
[17:09] <pitti> #endmeeting
[17:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  6 17:09:45 2015 UTC.
[17:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-01-06-17.00.moin.txt
[17:09] <infinity> That was short...
[17:09] <pitti> so, at least we kept a null meeting < 10 mins :)
[17:09] <mdeslaur> thanks pitti!
[17:09] <infinity> The stgraber of meetings.
[17:10] <pitti> infinity: yeah, must have been long EOY holidays or so
[17:10] <infinity> stgraber: Sorry, had to get one in for the new year before I forgot.
[17:10] <stgraber> infinity: :)
[17:10] <slangasek> heh
[17:10] <stgraber> infinity: would have been disappointed if you hadn't :)
[17:10] <pitti> that costs you at least a beer
[17:11] <infinity> I'
[17:11] <infinity> I'm sure it will cost me several. :)
[17:11]  * pitti waves good night
[17:28] <dsmythies> Is any one here for the docs meeting that starts in  70 seconds
[17:29] <hannie> I am :)
[17:29] <hannie> Just read the email
[17:29] <dsmythies> Hi Hannie. I don't see some names I ex[ected to see in this room.
[17:30] <hannie> hi doug. I only see pleia2 (gray)
[17:30] <hannie> Do you always meet in meeting-2? I did not know this room
[17:30] <dsmythies> Bear with me... I am not talented at running meetings.
[17:30] <dsmythies> yes, we typically meet here.
[17:30] <hannie> ah, there is no 3
[17:31] <dsmythies> Aghh, Gunner. Hi.
[17:31] <GunnarHj> Hello
[17:31] <hannie> hi gunnar
[17:31] <GunnarHj> Hi Hannie!
[17:31] <dsmythies> #startmeeting Ubuntu Docs
[17:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  6 17:31:36 2015 UTC.  The chair is dsmythies. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:32] <dsmythies> #chair dsmythies GunnarHj
[17:32] <meetingology> Current chairs: GunnarHj dsmythies
[17:32] <dsmythies> Lets get started. We have me, Hannie and Gunnar, so far. The agenda is a bit of a mess.
[17:32] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Hope you'll be present the whole meeting. I don't know that bot thing.
[17:33] <hannie> The only thing you shouldn't forget is end meeting
[17:33] <dsmythies> Gunnar: I have pleia2 cheat sheet, but am otherwise ORC challenged
[17:33] <dsmythies> IRC
[17:34] <dsmythies> I'll start:
[17:34] <dsmythies> I had wanted an update on the Canonical stuff. We have been hearing for almost a year now that they want to add stuff to help.ubuntu.com. But then nothing happens.
[17:35] <hannie> who is your contact?
[17:35] <dsmythies> Anyway. Nobody is here so tabled for now.
[17:36] <dsmythies> Hannie: Several. It is not clear who is in charge. but antdillon, DS-McGuire I think.
[17:37] <hannie> I think it is important to keep contact with the right persons at canonical. You may have to harass them occasionally.
[17:38] <dsmythies> For Server: I just wanted to mention that I intend to work on PDF serverguide issues for other languages during the next few months. In the end I want to be able to publish the server guide in all languges.
[17:38] <hannie> Ok. As a translator (Dutch) I am willing to contribute
[17:38] <dsmythies> Hannie: I actually will not pester, as I would prefer to just leave things as they are.
[17:39] <dsmythies> We agreed to what they want, but they will have to drive it.
[17:39] <hannie> ok. As for the translation of the server guide: let me know if I can help with the preparations
[17:40] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Even if that's true, I think hannie has a point. Keeping the conversation open (somehow) would be good.
[17:41] <dsmythies> Hannie: Thanks. I envision possible different font types for different languages, as what works for one (Russian, Greek) doesn't work for all.
[17:41] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Why would you need to bother about fonts?
[17:41] <dsmythies> Then they should show up at the meeting.
[17:42] <GunnarHj> +1
[17:42] <hannie> dsmythies, we are talking about 2 things: translations and canonical. May I suggest we finish canonical first and then go to "translating server guide"?
[17:42] <dsmythies> wait a second...
[17:43] <dsmythies> O.K. to finish Canonical. I will ping them.
[17:43] <hannie> ok
[17:43] <GunnarHj> great, dsmythies
[17:43] <dsmythies> #action dsmythies to ping Canonical as to timeline and such for inclusion of their stuff.
[17:44] <meetingology> ACTION: dsmythies to ping Canonical as to timeline and such for inclusion of their stuff.
[17:45] <dsmythies> Hannie: The serverguide PDF issue is not about translating itself. It is about getting the PDF to compile. Wait a sec and I'll give a bug reference.
[17:45] <hannie> dsmythies, I understand. I thing Kevin Godby is the one we can ask about this kind of problem
[17:45] <GunnarHj> I withdraw my question about fonts. Realize not that it's the PDF version you are talking about.
[17:46] <hannie> At the Ubuntu Manual we have translations in many, many languages
[17:46] <dsmythies> bug 922251
[17:47] <dsmythies> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ru-docs/+bug/922251
[17:47] <hannie> dsmythies, I could contact Kevin about this, if you like
[17:48] <hannie> ok, just read the bug report
[17:48] <dsmythies> hannie: The issue is known. I just have never had time to dig into it. But yes, I could confer with Kevin if he has knowledge.
[17:49] <hannie> please do. He will most probably know the answer
[17:49] <dsmythies> In terms of this meeting meeting. I just wanted to mention that Intend to spend time on it.
[17:49] <dsmythies> Gunnar: Let's move to your issue.
[17:50] <GunnarHj> Ok.
[17:50] <GunnarHj> But before that, it looks like all the items under "team business" are now history and can be removed from the agenda.
[17:51] <dsmythies> Yes, I just didn't get to it.
[17:51] <hannie> Is this the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[17:51] <GunnarHj> hannie: Yes.
[17:51] <dsmythies> Hannie: sort of. it is mostly obsolete.
[17:51] <hannie> ha, ha
[17:52] <dsmythies> #topic Ubuntu Docs not mentioned in slidehsow
[17:53] <hannie> I was particularly interested in Pending Action Points #3, but we will come to that later
[17:53] <GunnarHj> Ok. I wrote https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1406972 the other day. Just wanted to make sure that you agree that the change I want to do is justified.
[17:53] <dsmythies> GunnarHj: I definately agree.
[17:54] <hannie> GunnarHj, what a good idea!
[17:54] <dsmythies> Actually, I do not understand why the official docs are not promoted more.
[17:54] <hannie> We need a special PR person
[17:55] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Me neither. And that might have something to do with not talking to Canonical people very often. ;)
[17:55] <GunnarHj> hannie: Yeah, maybe...
[17:56] <dsmythies> hannie: I do think it is an issue within the docs group that nobody seems to want to be the manager or leader or overall driver.
[17:56] <GunnarHj> But let's finish that item: I'll make a merge proposal.
[17:56] <dsmythies> Gunnar: O.K.
[17:57] <dsmythies> #action GunnarHj will make a Merge Proposal for the slidehsow.
[17:57] <meetingology> ACTION: GunnarHj will make a Merge Proposal for the slidehsow.
[17:57] <hannie> dsmythies, one needs special skills for that. I certainly do not have those skills
[17:57] <dsmythies> #topic godbyk to poll members of the Ubuntu Manual team over disbanding the Ubuntu Manual project and joining the Ubuntu Docs team
[17:58] <hannie> dsmythies, do you mind if I say something about this?
[17:58] <dsmythies> I think kevin has been bust with his theses stuff.
[17:58] <dsmythies> hannie: go ahead
[17:58] <hannie> yeah, poor chap
[17:59] <hannie> We have discussed this before. The UMP is suffering because of lack of contributors
[17:59] <hannie> We have recently decided to publish only LTS versions
[18:00] <hannie> But we are afraid that, by the time the next LTS comes out, we will have to find a complete new team
[18:00] <hannie> The future will tell
[18:01] <dsmythies> "lack of contributors" seems universal
[18:01] <hannie> I didn't know Kevin wanted to poll the team again, but I personally think there is no team left, except for Kevin, Mehmet and me
[18:02] <hannie> I am in favor of disbanding the team, join ubuntu-docs team and publish the manual LTS only under the umbrella of ubuntu-docs
[18:02] <GunnarHj> Luckily it doesn't happen much with Unity 7 right now. I share the exactly same concern as regards the desktop guide for the case it starts changing...
[18:03] <dsmythies> hannie: It is somewhat of a older action itme. Maybe Kevin did the poll and I forget the results.
[18:03] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: There was a discussion at the manual list. Kevin never reported back.
[18:03] <hannie> yes, I thought so too. I will ask Kevin about it, but it is still something we should consider
[18:04] <pleia2> the consensus seemed to be it was ok to join docs, as long as they can remain atonomous
[18:04] <pleia2> we don't dictact formats or flow of their project or anything
[18:04] <dsmythies> Is there a take away from this, or an action to summarize? hannie to talk to kevin?
[18:04] <hannie> hi pleia2
[18:04] <dsmythies> sorry, pleia2
[18:05] <hannie> I suggest I discuss this with Kevin and report back on the ubuntu-docs mailing list
[18:05] <pleia2> hannie: thanks hannie
[18:05] <dsmythies> is the action for hannie or plea2?
[18:06] <GunnarHj> hannie: You said: "publish the manual LTS only under the umbrella of ubuntu-docs". Can you please elaborate? What difference compared to today would that mean?
[18:06] <dsmythies> Sorry, I misread...
[18:07] <dsmythies> #action hannie to confer with Kevin re: UMP and report to e-mail list.
[18:07] <meetingology> ACTION: hannie to confer with Kevin re: UMP and report to e-mail list.
[18:08] <hannie> GunnarHj, I will discuss this with Kevin and try to figure out how we can do this
[18:08] <GunnarHj> hannie: Ok.
[18:09] <hannie> dsmythies, I think you can close this subject for now
[18:09] <dsmythies> O.K. give me a second...
[18:10] <dsmythies> #topic Custom Search Engine
[18:11] <dsmythies> We have asked for feedback, but haven't got any. I would still like Gunnar and myself to be given access rights. Anyway, myself, I think it is O.K> now.
[18:12] <GunnarHj> I agree it's ok. Let's drop it for now.
[18:12] <dsmythies> but I would like to be able drill down in the serach to only include, for example, the serverguide.
[18:13] <dsmythies> Other topics?
[18:13] <hannie> Not for me
[18:13] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Guess you should just ask Dustin then.
[18:13] <GunnarHj> No more topics here either.
[18:14] <dsmythies> Can I go back to something for a minute?
[18:14] <GunnarHj> Sure
[18:14] <hannie> yes
[18:14] <dsmythies> #topic Canonical communications
[18:15] <dsmythies> The issue that I have with Canonical communications is that I find it frustrating and very very very often get no reply. Examples:
[18:16] <dsmythies> attempting to drive the mascot icon thing to conclusion. Ends wup with no reply and no procedure for next time.
[18:16] <dsmythies> the additional help stuff. Often no reply.
[18:17] <dsmythies> One start of fell like, well why bother.
[18:17] <hannie> It is essential that you find someone at Canonical whom you can rely on
[18:18] <hannie> Do the know how much time contributors spend on helping ubuntu users?
[18:18] <hannie> *they
[18:18] <dsmythies> I was thinking to organize my thoughts better, and more constuctive, and take them to the next higher level meeting. That level pleia2 is involved with (I forget the name just now)
[18:18] <GunnarHj> I have positive experiences of submitting tickets, but I do agree about the mascot icon issue. ;)
[18:19] <pleia2> community council?
[18:19] <dsmythies> yes, thanks.
[18:20] <pleia2> yeah, you're always welcome to send a mail to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com when you hit blockers with Canonical
[18:20] <pleia2> so organized thoughts would be appreciated so we can help :)
[18:21] <dsmythies> O.K. thanks. I'll think about it more, but not give myself and action item just yet.
[18:22] <dsmythies> #topic other
[18:22] <dsmythies> Are we done?
[18:22] <GunnarHj> think so
[18:22] <hannie> think so
[18:23] <dsmythies> O.K. then I will end.
[18:23] <dsmythies> #endmeeting
[18:23] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  6 18:23:22 2015 UTC.
[18:23] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-01-06-17.31.moin.txt
[18:23] <GunnarHj> Thanks all! See you.
[18:23] <hannie> will there be a link to this meeting on the mailing list?
[18:23] <dsmythies> bye everyone.
[18:23] <hannie> bye bye, see you
[18:24] <dsmythies> GunnarHj: I expected Peter M. to be here, but he wasn't.
[18:26] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Right. To me he said he would start leading the meetings again...
[18:29] <pmatulis> are we having a doc meeting?
[18:36] <dsmythies> Peter: The docs metting was an hour ago.