[00:13] <ali12341> is three's account management website completely broken or what?
[00:19] <diddledan> ali12341, I couldn't pay my bill via the online three site the other day
[00:19] <ali12341> right, you probably still can't
[00:19] <diddledan> I ended up having to phone it
[00:20] <diddledan> it seemed to me that bits were just plain missing from the output
[00:20] <diddledan> e.g. the mastercard/visa thingy
[00:21] <ali12341> yes, same here
[00:21] <ali12341> i topped on on 29th of december
[00:21] <ali12341> now i can't do anything at all on the site
[00:21] <ali12341> can't register cards, change any settings, change email or address
[00:21] <diddledan> maybe they've got a date issue
[00:21] <ali12341> you fill in the form, submit, and it just takes you back to the start with no error message
[00:21] <diddledan> yup
[00:22] <diddledan> I hunted everywhere for some sign of an error
[00:22] <diddledan> it just seemed to ignore me
[00:22] <ali12341> yeah
[00:22] <ali12341> twitter support person is still fobbing people off
[00:23] <ali12341> but they won't admit what the problem is, or if it affects everyone
[00:23] <ali12341> tey just say "we're aware of a problem and trying to fix it"
[00:23] <ali12341> but essentially it seems like the website is broken for everyone and the phonelines are completely overloaded
[00:25] <ali12341> i sent an email and they replied to that saying "we're receiving an unusually high volume of requests"
[00:25] <ali12341> not really unusual if your website is broken though
[00:27] <daftykins> :D
[00:48] <ali12341> from twitter: "I've been trying to top up online for almost a week. "This service is currently unavailable. Please try again later."
[00:48] <ali12341> so pretty much the service has been broken since 1st of january but nobody was at work to fix it
[00:48] <daftykins> nice \o/
[00:49] <diddledan> smacks of a date issue
[00:50] <daftykins> sure does
[00:51] <ali12341> they must be bleeding money if nobody who got a new phone for christmas has been able to top up
[00:51] <ali12341> which they wouldn't have if they had to transfer a number
[00:51] <ali12341> cos the transfers take two business days
[00:58] <daftykins> doh, www.thetrainline.com is dead
[00:58] <diddledan> \o/
[00:59] <daftykins> i always make the mistake of typing "london ga... ga..." doh, "gatwick airport" on the train sites :P
[00:59] <daftykins> ugh nationalrail dead too
[00:59] <daftykins> what is this :P
[01:01] <daftykins> £84 for me to fly one way to Gatwick on the 16th :(
[01:02] <diddledan> and you have the option to do that route by train? o_O
[01:02] <daftykins> hehe, nah popping down to Pevensey for a friends birthday
[01:02] <daftykins> but now i don't really want to book flights when i'm not sure if there's anything at the other end :D
[03:22] <haza> hello
[03:22] <haza> i got a problem
[03:22] <haza> can you help?
[05:58] <mapps> jesus
[05:59] <mapps> anyon here?
[06:01] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[06:02] <daftykins> Jesus had to step out for a minute, but i'm here
[08:25] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:28] <daftykins> o/
[08:48] <MooDoo> everyone have a good christmas / new year?
[08:49] <daftykins> yes ty, and yourself? :)
[09:03] <ali12341> i just managed to get the three website to work
[09:03] <ali12341> registered a card, then it it broke again afterwards
[09:03] <ali12341> i think it's just overloaded
[09:06] <bashrc> last time I used it the three web site was a lesson in bad design and poor functionality
[09:13] <MooDoo> daftykins: yeah it was great thanks, too short as ever :D
[09:29] <daftykins> \o/
[09:45] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:45] <daftykins> o/
[09:53] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:54] <bashrc> morning
[10:05] <MooDoo> morning bashrc
[10:22] <knightwise> mornin peeps
[10:23] <daftykins> o/
[10:23] <knightwise> hey daftykins !
[10:23] <knightwise> how are you today
[10:23] <daftykins> not bad ty :) just enjoying a slight downpour here on Guernsey though. how goes with yourself?
[10:23] <daftykins> wow City Link went into administration on Christmas Eve O_O
[10:24] <awilkins> And their redundancy fund is *surprise* being bailed out by the taxpayer
[10:25] <awilkins> Tories : privatizing the profits, socializing the losses.
[10:26] <popey> \o/ late brekkie. scrambled egg
[10:26] <popey> nom
[10:27] <daftykins> 8D
[10:35]  * awilkins is jealous of egg
[10:36] <popey> mmmm egg
[10:36] <awilkins> I have an egg
[10:37] <awilkins> But I decided to fast until dinnertime today
[10:37] <awilkins> I even have some granary bread to toast, to put the egg on
[10:37] <daftykins> i've always liked egg, but it often makes me feel a bit funny. my mum found out she developed an allergy not long ago too :(
[10:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apple Tree Day! :-)
[10:37] <awilkins> And bacon to go under the egg
[10:37]  * awilkins is just torturing himself at this point
[10:38] <awilkins> And tomatoes to grill and arrange around the toast to give the brown sauce something to drape itself over
[10:39] <daftykins> awilkins: now you're torturing me, SHTAP! :)
[10:39] <popey> mmmmmm tomatoes on toast
[10:39] <popey> wifey bought me some sardines for lunch
[10:46] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:48] <MooDoo> hello brobostigon
[10:51] <brobostigon> hello MooDoo
[11:00]  * davmor2 picks apples from the tree and throws them at JamesTait 
[11:00]  * JamesTait makes apple crumble
[11:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah first violence of 2015 eh ;)
[11:01]  * daftykins provides the custard
[11:01] <JamesTait> \o/
[11:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: as if that is violent I'm just taller than JamesTait so I can reach the higher apples I'm helping him out for his apple crumble
[11:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: i sit corrected, much better use would be scrumpy cider i say!
[11:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: I refuse to promote drinking unless it is national scrumpy day
[11:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: your hard work this morning lol
[11:04] <nigelb> Is it National Apple Day?
[11:04] <nigelb> Ah, Apple Tree.
[11:05] <MooDoo> Happy Epiphany day?
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: this morning????? every morning I hope ;)
[11:06] <MooDoo> lol
[11:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: man yesterday was national whipped cream day if every there was a topping for cold apple pie that was it
[11:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: how's the man flu?
[11:07] <JamesTait> davmor2, maybe I need an apprentice!
[11:07] <davmor2> JamesTait: no you do a wonderful impression of a bot
[11:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: My love runs cold, my memory has just been sold
[11:09] <popey> Right, where's the best place to watch this spacex take off and landing then?
[11:09] <davmor2> popey: Florida maybe?
[11:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: baka!
[11:09] <popey> spacex.com will do
[11:09] <popey> 11 mins till launch
[11:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'm back at work, I'll cope
[11:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: did you find somewhere for the SSD or is it still on the table?
[11:12] <MooDoo> popey: 36k watching it at the moment
[11:12] <bigcalm> Still on the dinning room table
[11:12] <popey> apparently so!
[11:12] <bigcalm> Pondering taking it to the new office
[11:12] <popey> exceiting!
[11:12] <popey> -typo
[11:12] <popey> bigcalm: SOTNIC ?
[11:12] <popey> SSD On Table, Not In Computer?
[11:13] <bigcalm> popey: expect the stream to fail at the most interesting point
[11:13] <davmor2> popey: lego super star destroyer
[11:13] <awilkins> My largest SSD is in an external drive cartridge plugged into the front panel of my desktop
[11:13] <awilkins> It was my work drive, used to carry it to work and plug it into the machine there on the eSATA
[11:14] <davmor2> awilkins: trust me this is a much bigger SSD see bigcalm's twitter/facebook feed
[11:14] <awilkins> ANd thus avoid the horrible privations of a corporate build of Windows
[11:15] <awilkins> That IS a big SSD
[11:15] <bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/550763324129181696
[11:16] <MooDoo> nice
[11:16] <popey> davmor2: ahhh! boooring! ☻
[11:16] <popey> not real space things!
[11:17] <davmor2> popey: it's big enough for weather balloon flight I bet ;) it might break a bit on touchdown though :)
[11:19] <MooDoo> range green
[11:19] <MooDoo> omg
[11:19] <MooDoo> stop the clock 1 min to go booooooooooooo
[11:19] <popey> doubt I could land my quadcopter on that giant platform in the sea
[11:19] <bigcalm> davmor2: the missing dimension is about 33cm wide
[11:19] <popey> let alone land a rocket stage on it
[11:20] <awilkins> Real space things : http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#.VKvEy137s_t
[11:21] <popey> BOOOOOOO
[11:22] <MooDoo> friday 9th jan....booooooooooooooooooooooooo
[11:22] <awilkins> Aborted, darn
[11:26] <MooDoo> yeah with a min to go
[11:26] <MooDoo> next launch possibly on the 9th Jan
[11:27] <awilkins> At least it didn't abort like this : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-30690377
[11:29] <MooDoo> ouch
[11:33] <ali12341> watch https://gamesdonequick.com/ instead
[11:40] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25055444
[11:40] <popey> that's good..
[12:46] <daftykins> you guys done much with IP cameras for surveillance/CCTV ? my friends own an art gallery and want to put a couple of cameras in their new place with the idea to watch them from home, too
[12:46] <diplo> I did a few years ago with Axis cameras
[12:47] <diplo> We had 35+ cameras from memory and wrote our own interface
[12:47] <diplo> But you can get their software which is probably more slick
[12:47] <daftykins> neat! :D are those the likes you'd find on ebay?
[12:48] <popey> no
[12:48] <popey> the axis ones are the spendy ones
[12:48] <popey> the ones on ebay are the cheapo chinese ones
[12:48] <diplo> Worth it overall though
[12:48] <daftykins> mmm, wannsview and the like. i see both though
[12:48] <daftykins> worth it to go premium?
[12:49] <diplo> We basically did some sums, to get a professional setup/do our own and somewhere in between and also cheap cameras
[12:49] <diplo> And we tested a few cheaper ones and had more failures/problems with them than anything
[12:49] <popey> the cheapo ones generally don't have decent enough picture quality to identify a person unless they're looking right at it in good light
[12:49] <diplo> Its been a few years mind now, they could have gone downhill :D
[12:49] <czajkowski> we have some cheap ones in the garden for watching the hens
[12:49] <czajkowski> works a treat
[12:49] <czajkowski> we also have one night time one also which is motion detected.
[12:50] <popey> but if it's just for keeping an eye, the cheapo ones are okay
[12:50] <diplo> http://www.axis.com/products/cam_210/
[12:50] <czajkowski> popey: aye
[12:50] <diplo> Are the ones you used all over and we had higher quality ones for specific areas and night vision ones for other areas
[12:50] <daftykins> just saw a 210 on ebay for £80 each :>
[12:50] <diplo> Actually used the footage a few times for the police
[12:51] <daftykins> erk!
[12:51] <diplo> About 200-300 each new from memory ?
[12:51] <daftykins> central hotspot eh? ;)
[12:52] <diplo> :)
[12:52] <diplo> Nah it was actually Jewsons on the back of us, there was a gap between us and them and the bad people used to use that area ( the camera was hidden )
[12:56] <daftykins> magic, well thanks all i'll give that a gander
[14:11] <awilkins> ?? apport just reported that /sbin/init crashed
[14:11] <awilkins> How is my computer still up?
[14:12] <awilkins> Out of stack.. .probably because I got an Ant job to run a squillion copies of jarsigner simultaneously
[14:21] <wifihelp> good morning UK :)
[14:23] <wifihelp> Someone know how I can see my network signal??
[14:23] <wifihelp> Wifi signal quality..
[14:24] <popey> kismet is quite good for that
[14:24] <popey> needs a little configuring
[14:25] <wifihelp> I know airodump-ng can do it..
[14:25] <wifihelp> but i want something that simple..
[14:28] <awilkins> wifi-rader
[14:28] <awilkins> radat
[14:28] <awilkins> ARRGAGHAG
[14:28] <awilkins> widi-radar
[14:28] <awilkins> Oh for heavens sakes
[14:28]  * awilkins slaps self
[14:28] <awilkins> wifi-radar
[14:28] <wifihelp> iwlist can do it nice, but i dont know how to get only one SSID
[14:28]  * popey also slaps awilkins 
[14:28] <daftykins> ^
[14:28] <daftykins> doesn't kismet still exist?
[14:29] <daftykins> !info kismet
[14:29] <daftykins> sure does
[14:29] <wifihelp> I need CLI tool..
[14:29] <wifihelp> ubuntu server...
[14:29] <popey> kismet is a cli tool.
[14:29]  * daftykins tuts
[14:29] <popey> nm-tool gives you a basic output
[14:30] <wifihelp> I know.. but It's OVER KILL to run it only to get signal quality..
[14:31] <popey> so maybe use nm-tool?
[14:31] <daftykins> we're giving options, you can make sense of them as you will
[14:31] <wifihelp> nm-tool only work if you are connected...
[14:31] <daftykins> maybe if you gave us an idea of what you're trying to achieve, we can advise better
[14:32] <wifihelp> make script that will show me signal quality of specific AP.
[14:32] <popey> no
[14:32] <popey> nm-tool shows all access points
[14:33] <popey> well, last time I tried it did
[14:33] <popey> now it's not showing anything here
[14:33] <daftykins> oh dear, my cat just saw neighbour cat through the window again
[14:34] <wifihelp> popey: you can show me what to do with nm-tool.
[14:34] <popey> well, it's not working here, which I'm looking into
[14:35] <popey> how about "iwlist scan" ?
[14:35] <popey> that shows every access point and signal
[14:35] <wifihelp> popey: I'm really love the iwlist.
[14:35] <wifihelp> but i can make it spesific..
[14:35] <popey> que?
[14:35] <awilkins> Anyone else running into occasions when /dev/random just doesn't have enough entropy in it?
[14:36] <popey> awilkins: yeah, you can buy entroy keys / devices
[14:36] <wifihelp> so I'm get lots of networks..
[14:36] <awilkins> Doing a Java build that signs a lot of jars. jarsigner eats /dev/random
[14:36] <Myrtti> $timeofday
[14:36] <awilkins> Have installed `randomsound`
[14:36] <wifihelp> there is a war to parse it?
[14:36] <awilkins> Which samples your mike for whitenoise and injects entropy from that
[14:37] <awilkins> Built time without : 30 minutes plus
[14:37] <awilkins> Build time with : 2 minutes
[14:37] <popey> wifihelp: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=88967 looks handy
[14:38] <wifihelp> popey: in ubuntu iwlist looks crazy!!
[14:38] <popey> sudo wpa_cli scan_results
[14:38] <popey> thats also neat
[14:38] <popey> much easier to read
[14:40] <wifihelp> look very nice..
[14:41] <wifihelp> but I'm getting the signal in DB
[14:41] <wifihelp> what is -68 in present?
[14:43] <daftykins> 'present' ?
[14:43] <daftykins> wifihelp: seriously, what are you trying to achieve... it'd make this to-and-fro so much easier
[14:45] <wifihelp> there is a problem with "wpa_cli scan_results"
[14:46] <wifihelp> It's not update in real time..
[14:46] <daftykins> watch -n 0.1 'wpa_cli scan_results'
[14:46] <daftykins> or something
[14:47] <daftykins> wifihelp: so c'mon, gonna share what you're up to to make life easier on us? :)
[14:47] <wifihelp> monitor some network
[14:48] <daftykins> ...
[14:48] <wifihelp> be able to see any drops / problems and make log
[14:48] <popey> better using something like kismet ☻
[14:48] <popey> it has this stuff built in ☻
[14:48] <daftykins> ^
[14:49] <wifihelp> sudo apt-get install kissmet ?
[14:49] <wifihelp> or there is a better way?
[14:50] <wifihelp> 26 sec..
[14:50] <daftykins> kismet
[14:50] <daftykins> no that way is fine, that's how you install software CLI
[14:50] <wifihelp> 14 sec..
[14:50] <daftykins> it's only 1918KB.
[14:50] <daftykins> are you on 56k? :D
[14:50] <wifihelp> I mean like ppa or compile the last version...
[14:51] <daftykins> neither are the ubuntu way
[14:54] <popey> just installed it here. works nicely. not use it for a while.
[14:56] <daftykins> neat
[14:56] <popey> https://imgur.com/4AvWglk sweet!
[14:57] <daftykins> how rude!
[14:57] <daftykins> neighbours i presume? :>
[14:57] <popey> yeah
[15:22] <Myrtti> popping candy chocolate ♥
[15:23] <popey> hmm. pork scratching belch
[15:28] <Myrtti> ew
[15:32] <MooDoo> :)
[15:39] <daftykins> there used to be these really nice biltong packets in a local pub, but they've not been sold for months now :(
[15:39] <diddledan> morning
[15:39] <popey> moin
[15:39] <daftykins> o/
[16:04] <awilkins> High quality jerky is hard to come by
[16:04] <awilkins> There's a stall in Leeds market that does nice biltong (vouched for by a SA expat) for nice prices
[16:06] <wifihelp> how i can make a loop in bash that run only 5 times?
[16:08] <daftykins> yeah my mates dad is from SA so they know the good stuff apparently :>
[16:09] <awilkins> Have considered making my own
[16:10] <awilkins> wifihelp, for I in $(seq 0 4) ; do echo stuff ; done
[16:11] <wifihelp> mmm
[16:13] <wifihelp> work!
[16:50] <shauno> I gotta say, the ubuntu software center is kinda .. odd
[16:50] <shauno> eg, it seems it won't actually remove libreoffice
[16:51] <bashrc> maybe it got attached to it
[16:53] <daftykins> ^ couldn't stand to see it go
[16:54] <diddledan> dammit, linkedin just spammed my entire addressbook
[16:55] <diddledan> uncheck the people you don't want to send message to, linkedin will still spam them
[16:55] <daftykins> =[
[16:55] <shauno> why does linkedin have your address book?
[17:00] <diddledan> well, see, here's the thing. they tell you they won't spam people
[17:01] <shauno> but they've been lying since day 1.
[17:02] <diddledan> specific text used: " We'll never email anyone without your permission."
[17:03] <diddledan> they seem to take permission ot email one person as permission to email everyone
[17:05] <shauno> I guess you gave them permission to 'email anyone'
[17:07] <shauno> and now it'll be asking them to recommend your bricklaying skills on your behalf or something :)
[17:09] <diddledan> indeed
[17:09] <diddledan> I'm a good bricklayer, btw
[17:11] <shauno> btw, what's the browser that seems to just name itself "web browser" ?
[17:12] <diddledan> no idea
[17:15] <shauno> I think it's going to be easier just to figure out how to build kicad on osx
[17:17] <shauno> I'd love to know where this thing thinks my apostrophe key is :/
[17:20] <shauno> ahhh.  it's on alt-b.  which also seems to open up some launcher thingie.
[17:22] <diddledan> eh? what are you using/doing?
[17:25] <mapp> still not figured out why my stupid pi turns off
[17:25] <diddledan> mapp, turns off completely or reboobs?
[17:25] <diddledan> as in power-cycle reboob
[17:26] <diddledan> I've found that plugging or unplugging a usb device on one of mine will cause it to reboob but once it's back-up the usb I plugged-in works as expected
[17:26] <bigcalm> mapp: power supply not up to the job?
[17:32] <shauno> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7nru1dwTwk
[17:34] <diddledan> shauno, well it's your fault for having a weird gf :-p
[17:35] <diddledan> really we need to make the slovaks(it was slovak?) speak english then it'll make much more sense
[17:35] <shauno> that's not slovak, it's the "mac international" layout
[17:35] <shauno> well
[17:35] <shauno> that's what it says on the tin
[17:35] <diddledan> yeah, but you've done it so that you can type weird things
[17:35] <shauno> heh, no, I've done it so it has the keys in the same place as my laptop :)
[17:36] <diddledan> eww
[17:36] <diddledan> your laptop isn't british english?
[17:37] <shauno> that appears to be equally hilarious
[17:37] <diddledan> oh, well then you're **ggered
[17:37] <diddledan> the ubuntu keylayout for british english mac is close enough
[17:37] <diddledan> the ` is on the wrong key tho
[17:37] <shauno> ooh, oh no, uk mac has an apostrophe on the apostrophe key!
[17:38] <diddledan> the ` and § keys are back asswards
[17:38] <shauno> uk mac international has a grave accent
[17:38] <shauno> (which does not correspond to any keyboard apple have made this side of osx)
[17:39] <shauno> hm.  but no # key
[17:39] <shauno> I ...
[17:40] <diddledan> # is alt+3
[17:40] <diddledan> just the same as os x
[17:40] <diddledan> shift+3 on us layout
[17:40] <shauno> alt-3 is doing something odd in bash, it's giving me a prompt (arg:3)
[17:42] <diddledan> right-alt
[17:42] <diddledan> ubuntu likes to use the two alts independantly
[17:42] <shauno> ooh, so it is
[17:43] <diddledan> so left-alt+3 is similar to ctrl+3 in that it executes a shortcut, right-alt+3 does alternative keybinding
[17:43] <shauno> left-alt is meta?
[17:44] <diddledan> nope, the cmd key is still meta
[17:44] <shauno> hm.
[17:44] <diddledan> left-alt does things with menus in gui
[17:44] <shauno> this would be much more logical if it actually used the alt key as an alt key, instead of trying to emulate whatever quackery windows uses it for
[17:45] <diddledan> left-alt+f opens the file menu for example, whereas right-alt+f does đ
[17:45] <shauno> (eg, the reason it says 'alternate' rather than 'menu' on it)
[17:46] <shauno> so the alternate f is ƒ, not File
[17:47] <diddledan> o_O right-alt+f gives me "đ"
[17:47] <shauno> lol
[17:48] <shauno> so I need to find a keyboard layout that's basically the US layout on an iso keyboard
[17:48] <diddledan> this is with "uk, macintosh"
[17:48] <shauno> yeah, I'm not typing this from ubuntu
[17:48] <diddledan> aah
[17:48] <diddledan> you suck then :-p
[17:49] <shauno> well, if I can get ubuntu to support keyboards, maybe I could ;)
[17:49]  * diddledan "presents" ready for the suckage
[17:49] <diddledan> oh myyy
[17:49] <diddledan> family friendly
[17:49] <diddledan> family friendlyu
[17:50]  * diddledan starts rocking slightly while repeating that over and over
[17:50] <shauno> btw, have you ever seen the slovak keymap?
[17:50] <diddledan> I'm not sure I even want to try
[17:50] <shauno> it's hilarious.  they stuck more letters on the top row.  so the digit 1 is shift-1
[17:51] <diddledan> o_O
[17:51] <diddledan> yeah, they're all wackos
[17:51] <diddledan> what's wrong with western a-z and that's it?!
[17:56] <shauno> hm.  luckily this doesn't seem to understand what a no-break space is, because the slovak keymap is using it instead of a regular space
[18:12] <shauno> I don't suppose there's an option anywhere to get left-alt to act as alt?  or at least switch the two alt keys?
[18:13] <popey> que?
[18:13] <popey> left alt _is_ alt
[18:14] <shauno> well, eg; trying to use kicad - the shortcut for zoom out is alt+f2
[18:14] <diddledan> popey, not on the macintosh layouts at least - left-alt operates the application menus, whereas the right-alt does things like accented characters
[18:14] <shauno> if I do left-alt + f2 I get a dash style window saying 'run a command', right-alt + f2 zooms out
[18:14] <popey> ho ho ho
[18:15] <shauno> I'm not using a mac layout atm - I gave up on that.  I'm using English (US) currently because I figured it'd be one people have actually used
[18:49] <diddledan> I can't believe gamergate is still a thing
[18:49] <diddledan> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/01/06/gamergate-critic-swatted-about-20-cops-go-to-old-address/
[18:50] <diddledan> I still haven't managed to work out what the two supposedly opposing viewpoints are and which side holds which view
[19:06] <diddledan> graffiti is completely out of control: https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10906126_1011621208858890_7750560742328629258_n.jpg?oh=e83f5ee697fa6c04e3dc9ea67b90a7cd&oe=5541D46B
[19:45] <ali12341> diddledan: there are no "viewpoints", it's just a playground fight between a bunch of kids and a bunch of people who act like kids
[19:59] <diddledan> so if there are no viewpoints how can one be pro gamergate or against gamergate?
[20:00] <diddledan> e.g the girl in the sophos link I posted
[20:00] <diddledan> she apparently changed sides
[20:03] <ali12341> easy, you just say you've changed sides?
[20:04] <diddledan> I just don't understand
[20:04] <diddledan> my brain is too small
[20:08] <ali12341> there is nothing to understand
[20:08] <diddledan> if it really is as frivolous as that to have no ideological decision then why are there incidents where the SWAT are called-in?
[20:08] <diddledan> devisiion**
[20:08] <diddledan> division**
[20:08] <ali12341> because that is the kind of thing children do
[20:11] <diddledan> that isn't an explanation, that's a get-out
[20:11] <ali12341> well, what more explanation do you want?
[20:12] <diddledan> ok, brian in his basement is on one side. what justification does he come up with in his puny mind to swat some random internet dweller and why does he choose that particular internetist
[20:13] <ali12341> brian is twelve and has absolutely no impulse control
[20:16] <ali12341> or perhaps more accurately, brian is 18-30, has no job and no chance of getting one, is forced to live with parents, and basically has nothing to lose
[20:18] <diddledan> there has to be some decision over who to swat though, so what is he using for his comparison between potentials to decide who is most "worthy"?
[20:18] <ali12341> if you read the article, the decision was made by whoever's post ended in doubles
[20:18] <ali12341> if you're not familiar with 4chan, every post has a numeric ID
[20:19] <ali12341> if the ID ends in the same two digits it's "doubles" and considered lucky
[20:20] <diddledan> and breaking it down to "well they're on the other side" - when someone ascribes to a side what logic are they using to decide which side they want to be part of?
[20:21] <diddledan> and if one is a "gamergate critic" what exactly are you being critical of?
[20:21] <ali12341> gamergate critics are left-wing progressive pseudo-intellectuals
[20:22] <ali12341> gamegate supporters are basically tea-party republicans except not 60 years old
[20:22] <ali12341> you might as well ask how people decide who to vote for
[20:22] <diddledan> no
[20:23] <ali12341> no?
[20:23] <diddledan> deciding who to vote for is a personal morality choice based on what each party says they're going to work on in the next term
[20:24] <diddledan> political parties have ideals - you're saying gamergate and non-gamergate don't
[20:24] <ali12341> lol yeah right
[20:25] <ali12341> do honestly you think the majority of people actually choose a political party that way?
[20:25] <ali12341> no, (anti)GG both have ideals, they are in fact both hardcore idealists
[20:25] <ali12341> but hardcore idealism is stupid and always has been
 diddledan: there are no "viewpoints"
[20:26] <diddledan> surely your two statements there are contra
[20:26] <ali12341> there is always a viewpoint of some kind
[20:26] <ali12341> due to the subjective nature of reality
[20:27] <ali12341> that is individual to each person though
[20:28] <ali12341> in fact each side attempts to stereotype the other, to boil down the wide range of viewpoint the other holds, and that is the source of most of the animosity
[20:29] <diddledan> ok. which side should I join?
[20:29] <ali12341> neither
[20:29] <diddledan> which side holds closest to my ideology?
[20:30] <ali12341> i hope neither of them
[20:32] <diddledan> ok, a different question: what is it that each side hates about the other?
[20:33] <ali12341> in general or specifically?
[20:33] <ali12341> in general the answer is the same as what the left wing and the right wing hate about each other
[20:36] <diddledan> so it's socialism vs capitalism?
[20:37] <ali12341> no, it's the other axis on the political compass
[20:37] <ali12341> because that is an economic argument
[20:37] <ali12341> while this is about social policy
[20:37] <daftykins> damn it diddledan, this topic again? ;)
[20:37] <ali12341> it's progressive vs conservative
[20:38] <diddledan> aah, gays getting married vs damned for eternity?
[20:38] <ali12341> yeah that kind of stuff
[20:39] <ali12341> do you remember the gay cake row from last year?
[20:39] <diddledan> I say up gay rights. and up yours, too.
[20:39] <diddledan> :-p

[20:40] <diddledan> daftykins, run. run away.
[20:41] <daftykins> i'm a pedallin'!
[20:41] <diddledan> I really don't like not being able to quantify something
[20:41] <ali12341> are you familiar with reddit at all?
[20:42]  * daftykins makes a rude gesture regarding reddit
[20:42] <ali12341> i mean the history of the site
[20:43] <daftykins> please go on, even though i'm hijacking the convo
[20:43] <diddledan> I know it exists and is generally completely useless when it shows up in a google resultset
[20:43] <ali12341> well, i' not going to attempt to explain it
[20:43] <shauno> daftykins: oh do hijack it it - save us all!
[20:43] <ali12341> it's a large and complex issue
[20:43] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[20:43] <ali12341> but a lot of it stems from there
[20:44] <bashrc> Is Ubuntu Good for Gaming? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_dhe5zSjI
[20:44] <diddledan> bashrc, yes
[20:44] <daftykins> i think *that* topic should be left in 2014
[20:45] <ali12341> lol that video
[20:46] <shauno> my understanding is that one side are trying to make a somewhat reasonable point, but the most vocal of them are making it in a very unreasonable manner
[20:46] <ali12341> shauno: that applies to both sides
[20:46] <shauno> and the other side are completeing missing this point because said 'unreasonable manner' is so distractacting
[20:46] <bashrc> some of those videos are hillarious
[20:46] <ali12341> they almost perfectly mirror each other, actually
[20:47] <daftykins> i can't get past the voices personally
[20:47] <bashrc> and the cheesy smile
[20:47] <diddledan> huh. I don't get that video
[20:48] <ali12341> the thing is, nobody sensible wants anything to do with either side. and rightly so
[20:48] <diddledan> which side of gamergate is it on, bashrc ? :-p
[20:48] <bashrc> I've no idea, just found it funny
[20:48] <daftykins> diddledan: careful, we don't want to have a chat about cartoon cleavage
[20:49] <bashrc> the elevator music in the background too
[20:49] <diddledan> it doesn't make much sense as a conversation
[20:49] <daftykins> so did anyone have anything interesting happen today?
[20:49] <bashrc> exactly
[20:54] <shauno> I tried to use ubuntu today :)  that was interesting.  and funny.  and sad.
[20:55] <daftykins> shauno: oh my, how so?
[20:56] <bashrc> why sad?
[20:56] <shauno> I had to get diddledan to help me figure out how to type an apostrophe :|
[20:57] <diddledan> lol
[20:57] <ali12341> that's only because you have a silly mac keyboard
[20:57] <bashrc> ugh
[20:57] <bashrc> still, if you can run ubuntu on a mac then that's a win
[20:58] <shauno> oh it was in a VM.  I still can't get it working sensibly on bare metal.  that's a much longer story  lol
[20:58] <diddledan> I've never had problems running ubuntu on any mac I've owned
[20:58] <bashrc> how old is the hardware?
[20:58] <shauno> 2011
[20:59] <bashrc> so not that old, I expect ubuntu would run pretty well
[20:59] <bashrc> although being in a VM would slow it down
[21:00] <shauno> I think it's actually better in a VM
[21:00] <shauno> leaving OSX in charge of the power management works out a whole lot better
[21:01] <bashrc> I'd eliminate the closed source middle OS
[21:01] <shauno> ideally.  but the free OS is has lousy power management
[21:02] <shauno> if I remove the 2nd hdd & stick an optical drive back in there (I said it was a long story :), I can install it with bios emulation
[21:03] <daftykins> ubuntu is said to vary wildly on macs
[21:04] <shauno> that way, my main issues are that trackpad support is still sorely lacking, and the lack of control over the gmux means it's hot & hungry (buh byes battery)
[21:04] <diddledan> I wonder if I worked out which board had the ram chips in my mac and I soldered bigger ones on in their stead whether I would have a working macbook pro with moar rams or a doorstop
[21:04] <daftykins> ah yes, picky EFI only gives up certain things to a MBR emulated install?
[21:05] <shauno> yeah.  the gmux is accessed via the efi.  it simply can't touch it at all via bios emulation
[21:05] <shauno> (the switching circuitry for the gpus)
[21:05] <daftykins> that an optimus one?
[21:05] <diddledan> apple
[21:05] <shauno> afiak apple have their own magic for this bit (it's the same deal whether you have amd or nvidia)
[21:06] <shauno> but back when I tried this, my battery lasted for 8-9 hours under OSX, ~2 hours under XP, and 30-40 minutes under linux
[21:06] <daftykins> oh not nvidia optimus
[21:07] <daftykins> heh
[21:07] <daftykins> that old 2007 macbook i tried? both xubuntu and ubuntu 14.04 had wildly wrong keyboard layouts
[21:07] <shauno> yeah.  that's what I was having fun with this afternoon
[21:08] <shauno> I have every belief whoever wrote those keymaps, has no idea what a mac is, let alone which keys are where.
[21:08] <daftykins> and the touchpad would only move the pointer if you laid down a whole finger segment at once
[21:09] <zmoylan-pi> or wanted to make rich macbook owners suffer :-)
[21:09] <shauno> I've been trying on & off for years to boot with efi, which should solve the power issue.  but so far I can't get the screen to turn on
[21:12] <mapp> just starteds watching american mary..sounds interesting
[21:12] <daftykins> every laptop i tried out a Linux on i never saw good battery life, never really believed it was possible to get it to match the Windows being on
[21:13] <shauno> the first laptop I put linux on, I could get suspend-to-disk working, but not resume-from-disk.  every laptop I've owned since has been a mac, so it's never got much better  heh
[21:15] <shauno> anyway.  wasn't meant to be a rant, I was just taking dafty's bait for a topic change :)
[21:16] <daftykins> \o/
[21:28] <zmoylan-pi> my current system is hp netbook from when netbooks were a thing a few years back.  gets 12 hours on xubuntu
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> such a slow processor though...
[21:31] <daftykins> mmhmm, you must either be a very patient man, or very bald ;)
[21:32] <daftykins> ok i gotta run, nn all \o
[21:32] <diddledan> oh, so you're the one who bought a netbook then?
[21:32] <daftykins> diddledan: ^5
[21:37] <zmoylan-pi> everyone bought netbooks for their kids.  i wanted one for me as it suits me better than full laptop
[21:37] <diddledan> short legs?
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> long commute on public transport
[21:38] <diddledan> aah
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> my sony laptop couldn't handle dublin bus
[21:40] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008AIBJFE/ novel
[21:40] <diddledan> https://plus.google.com/u/0/110631631855327986587/posts/8ysMDHLYjGX?pid=6101252548880195474&oid=110631631855327986587
[21:40] <diddledan> popey, that only works if you're awake during the day to open the curtains :-p
[21:40] <popey> kitchen has no curtains ☻
[21:40] <popey> and is south facing
[21:41] <zmoylan-pi> it sat in back back with 2" towel below it (hitchhikers fan) 1" on all sides and .5" on top.  case cracked by emergency stop while i was on top deck.
[22:04] <diddledan> the text-adventure p0rn looks exciting: http://gizmodo.com/2-400-ms-dos-games-are-now-free-online-some-of-them-ar-1677816759?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
[22:28] <diddledan> so you can download any of the games available at archive.org by taking the "stream" url and ripping off the ?query-string bits and replacing the first directory of /stream/ to /cors/
[22:30] <diddledan> e.g. simcity: https://archive.org/stream/msdos_SimCity_1989/SimCity_1989.zip?module=dosbox&scale=2 becomes: https://archive.org/cors/msdos_SimCity_1989/SimCity_1989.zip
[22:30] <zmoylan-pi> i played that a lot...
[22:30] <zmoylan-pi> found it on a customers pc
[22:31] <ali12341> duke nukem 3d is on the current humble bundle for native linux on steam
[22:31] <shauno> there's a *lot* of that kinda stuff on archive.org
[22:33] <diddledan> shauno, see my gizmodo link above
[22:33] <diddledan> 2400 dos games
[22:33] <zmoylan-pi> you could have that on a 7" tablet...
[22:34] <shauno> diddledan: that's nothing :)   try https://archive.org/details/tosec
[22:35] <diddledan> wow, 3.6TB
[22:35] <diddledan> 466k items
[22:35] <zmoylan-pi> could take a while to find what you want
[22:36] <shauno> and it'll quite happily give you, eg, a 31GB zip of everything they have for the amiga
[22:38] <shauno> "back in my day" 'abandonware' sites were dodgy  lol
[22:38] <diddledan> yeah, hotu was my goto site
[22:38] <diddledan> home-of-the-underdogs
[22:38] <zmoylan-pi> world of spectrum was where i went for the classics
[22:39] <shauno> (there's also https://archive.org/details/internetarcade )
[22:42] <diddledan> they look to be downloadable with my method above
[22:42] <shauno> I'm sure if you mangle the right url, it'll probably just give you a zip of everything :)
[22:43] <zmoylan-pi> 3.6tb in a zip... this a job for winzip!! :-P
[22:45] <diddledan> lol @ three stooges arcade "stand in front of the stooge you want to be, and wiggle his joystick"
[22:45] <zmoylan-pi> though i suspect i have a floppy with pkunzip.exe 2.04g here on a floppy if i really really looked
[22:48] <shauno> lol dan .. well they say you coming
[22:54] <shauno> er, *saw
[22:57] <diddledan> the msdos games - I have managed to get it to give me this: https://ia601408.us.archive.org/3/items/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/
[22:58] <diddledan> e.g. the .torrent
[22:58] <shauno> no you haven't
[22:59] <diddledan> hmm, the torrent only includes the files in that folder tho - so useless
[22:59] <shauno> :)
[22:59] <shauno> it's way too small to even include hashes for all those files, let alone the droids you're looking for
[23:49] <m0nkey_> Greetings from Burlington ON
[23:51] <diddledan> what you doing in burlington?
[23:52] <shauno> stealing wifis
[23:52] <m0nkey_> Lol
[23:52] <diddledan> I'm sure his own wifi won't approve of that
[23:53] <zmoylan-pi> ungrateful hussie
[23:54] <diddledan> just don't suggest wifi swapping
[23:54] <m0nkey_> I'm here for work. In the middle of nowhere.
[23:54] <diddledan> joy
[23:55] <shauno> isn't everywhere in canadia the middle of nowhere?
[23:55] <m0nkey_> Unless you're in a city... Yes, it is
[23:55] <shauno> I had a customer phone up trying to find batteries for a norwegian UPS .. in nova scotia
[23:55] <shauno> this was my lesson in "good lord, there's *nothing there at all*"
[23:55] <m0nkey_> Oh and the previous occupant of this hotel room forgot some skimpy underwear.
[23:56] <shauno> it's all just trees, moose and poutine
[23:56] <diddledan> m0nkey_, try it on
[23:56] <m0nkey_> Too small for me. Whoever she was, she was slim.
[23:56] <diddledan> maybe she left in a hurry
[23:56] <m0nkey_> Maybe
[23:56] <diddledan> the dude's wife probably turned up
[23:57] <shauno> or a black binbag</clarkson>
[23:57] <diddledan> o_O