/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/01/07/#ubuntu-devel.txt

=== masACC is now known as maswn
=== maswn is now known as maswan
=== negronjl is now known as negronjl-afk
dholbachgood morning08:31
LocutusOfBorg1hi dholbach08:35
LocutusOfBorg1:)08:35
dholbachhi LocutusOfBorg108:35
=== mfisch is now known as Guest12671
seb128lamont`, hey, could you review the changes on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/583216 ?09:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 583216 in postfix (Ubuntu) "inet_protocols can't be preseeded" [Medium,In progress]09:30
seb128mvo, hey, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1274466 something you still plan to work on? apparently your previous sru has been supperseeded by a security update09:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1274466 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "apt-ftparchive on-disk cache format changed between lucid and precise, results in Packages files with silently corrupted checksums fields" [High,In progress]09:39
seb128mvo, (it's in the sponsoring queue)09:40
mvoseb128: yeah, I need to look at this, but not right now, snappy is taking precedence09:40
seb128mvo, does it need sponsors or is that on your list?09:41
mvoseb128: its on my list, I don't know why its on the sponsoring queue09:41
seb128mvo, ok, unsubscribing sponsors then, danke ;-)09:45
seb128mvo, oh and happy new year! :-)09:45
mvoseb128: thanks, happy new year to you as well :)09:46
seb128@pilot in09:49
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> utopic | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: seb128
Odd_BlokeI'm looking at making changes to live-build for CPC; is the source for Ubuntu's version kept in version control anywhere?09:55
cjwatsonOdd_Bloke: not afaik09:59
cjwatsonjust use the source package09:59
Odd_BlokeAck.10:03
Odd_BlokeThanks.10:03
=== MasterPieceF is now known as MasterPiece
seb128is errors.ubuntu.com working for others?10:39
seb128oh, it works, the "loading..." just takes a while10:39
seb128ignore that10:39
lamont`seb128: in my pre-awake state, that patch looks beautiful. (583216)10:45
seb128lamont`, hey, happy new year ;-)10:45
lamont`seb128: I'll look again in more detail after I wake up, but it does seem to clearly be an oversight with a trivial fix10:46
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
seb128lamont, great, thanks10:47
=== apachelogger is now known as sitter
=== vrruiz_ is now known as rvr
=== _salem is now known as salem_
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
flexiondotorgDoes anyone know if multilib gir support is planned for 15.04?12:18
cjwatsonflexiondotorg: It's already there12:26
flexiondotorgcjwatson, Excellent! When did it land?12:27
cjwatsonflexiondotorg: 2014-10-2812:28
flexiondotorgcjwatson, Thanks for the info. Brilliant.12:28
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
xnoxinfinity: sysdeps/*/multiarch/* in glibc source code have nothing to do with Debian-multiarch term, right?13:14
* xnox is slowly going mad here13:14
highvoltagesomeone please take some cheesecake to xnox13:25
xnoxhhhmmmm cheesecake13:31
tedgjodh, Yesterday seb128 was pinging me about using UAL with systemd as PID 1, specifically replacing cgmanager calls.14:09
tedgjodh, How is session upstart making cgroups in that case?14:09
tedgjodh, I don't see any generic cgroups functionality in systemd interfaces.14:09
jodhtedg: upstart calls cgmanager directly for cgroup handling.14:10
tedgjodh, So then if we're using Upstart sessions we still need cgmanager running?14:12
jodhtedg: if we want cgroup support for those sessions, yes.14:13
tedgjodh, Does that work? Or do cgmanager and systemd fight?14:14
jodhtedg: I thought hallyn made them tolerate each other, but best to check with him on the specifics.14:15
hallynso far they tolerate each other.  cgmanager is disabled under systemd by default though, you have to enable it14:16
tedgThey each sit in the corner and stare angrily at each other. :-)14:16
hallynwell mor elike they try to give each other the cold shoulder :)14:16
tedgOkay, so I guess the next question is whether we expect for 15.04 to have a systemd session for Unity8.14:17
tedgIf we expect it to be Upstart, there's no UAL changes, but if we want to be systemd, we need *all* the changes.14:17
tedgseb128, ^14:18
hallynI think we expect systemd and cgmanager both in 14.0414:19
hallynuh, 15.0414:19
hallynby 16.04 hopefully well have cgroupns in the kernel and maybe not need cgmanager.14:19
seb128tedg, systemd is going to be pid1 in vivid, I don't think we should ask users to change init system to try unity8 desktop14:19
tjaaltonthere's no partner repo for vivid? my adobe-flashplugin is out-of-date because of that..14:21
tedgseb128, I don't think they need to change init systems, just start the cgmanager unit.14:23
tedgseb128, Are you guys migrating the Unity7 session management to systemd?14:23
seb128tedg, you expect normal users to have to deal with command line to be able to log into a working unity8 session?14:23
seb128tedg, there is session management migration planned for this cycle14:23
tedgseb128, No, I expect us to make it work :-)14:23
tedgDon't we need cgmanager for things like lxc as well? Why is it off by default?14:24
seb128tedg, it's written in the bug I pointed you at yesterday14:25
seb128tedg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cgmanager/+bug/1400394/comments/814:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1400394 in ubuntu-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Unity8 fails to start applications under systemd init (cgmanager issue?)" [Undecided,New]14:26
tedgHmm, so if we can't have cgmanager, then Upstart needs to be able to create cgroups with systemd.14:29
tedgUAL only queries the groups, Upstart creates them.14:30
tedgseb128, Is there a reason we're not just migrating all the sessions?14:31
tedgI hate flag days, but I kinda feel like supporting both is going to be tricky.14:31
seb128tedg, needs resources14:31
seb128no other reason than "1 step at the time"14:31
seb128if we have people wanting to do it properly this cycle sure14:31
seb128but I'm unsure we do have anyone with slots to work on that, the pid1 transition is already going to require shared efforts14:32
seb128didrocks, pitti, ^ opinion?14:32
tedgTo be clear, I don't *want* to, but it might be the path of least resistance.14:32
=== negronjl-afk is now known as negronjl
seb128tedg, it feels like we are going to need to make u-a-l talk to systemd's cgroup manager anyway, so we have to write that code14:35
seb128shouldn't be that much work to have new code/old code in if blocks depending on the cgmanager running?14:35
seb128rather than replacing one by the other14:35
tedgseb128, UAL I don't think is as much the issue as we'd need to port Upstart as well.14:38
seb128tedg, how so?14:38
tedgseb128, Upstart creates the cgroups, so it's the one that does all the initial cgmanager work there. UAL only queries them once created.14:38
tedgseb128, Upstart can't create them without cgmanager.14:38
Riddellprocps broken in vivid launchpad builds? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kbookmarks/5.6.0-0ubuntu114:39
seb128Riddell, it's likely the sysvinit upload from didrocks earlier, I'm deleting it from proposed14:41
seb128Laney found a typo in it14:41
=== Guest12671 is now known as mfisch
argeshallyn: hey! heads up, i see a couple of uploads from you of libvirt in trusty queue, I'm going to have to reject one since they have different changes but are the same version14:45
xnoxinfinity: doh - enable single DSO with optimizations for multiple architectures14:49
didrocksseb128: tedg: sessions were never used in prod in any distro yet, I think we would need to devote a whole cycle just for this15:15
didrocksso not coupling the 2 transitions at the same time IMHO15:16
seb128+115:16
tedgdidrocks, ? Upstart session were used in 14.04.15:17
didrockstedg: systemd session15:17
tedgOh, yes. But if systemd and cgmanager don't get along...15:17
tedgWe either need to port Upstart to systemd or switch.15:17
didrocksnot sure what it will take to have upstart session working properly on systemd15:18
didrocksbut seems a saner approach to me15:19
hallynarges: grrr.15:19
tedgjodh, Thoughts? ^15:19
didrockstedg: I guess we don't see that on the desktop because we don't use cgmanager there?15:19
tedgdidrocks, It feels to me like pushing Upstart in a direction that isn't truly useful.15:19
jodhtedg: the point of upstart using cgmanager was to abstract the cgroup handling to a 3rd party, so maybe cgmanager could detect if systemd is running and proxy the calls to pid 1? hallyn?15:20
didrockstedg: right, but having both transitions at the same time seems risky as well15:20
tedgdidrocks, Well, apparently with systemd as PID 1 we don't end up being able to use cgmanager. Read pitti's comment on the bug above.15:20
tedgYou think of it wrong. It's just one transition from upstart to systemd, just two instances of it. ;-)15:21
hallynarges: trying to grab the sources before they get deleted so i can combine them15:21
argeshallyn: yup that's why i pinged you first : )15:21
tedgI don't disagree, just not sure that supporting the Upstart user sessions is worth it.15:21
didrockstedg: well, we don't already have the ressources in migrating all upstart services (system) to systemd15:22
didrockstedg: so, not that I disagree, but as seb128 told, "it's work" :)15:22
didrocksand flag days, well…15:22
hallynarges: got them, thanks15:25
xnoxseb128: didrocks: systemd user sessions where used on MeeGo 1.3 I believe.... but that was a while back and not the current state of affairs.15:25
xnoxtedg: we have working cgmanager under systemd.15:25
didrocksxnox: yeah, I wouldn't call that "production" though :p15:25
xnoxdidrocks: true.15:25
argeshallyn: ok i'll reject the later upload for (1403648/8), and you can rebase off that then?15:25
didrocksxnox: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cgmanager/+bug/1400394/comments/8 for what tedg is refering to15:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1400394 in ubuntu-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Unity8 fails to start applications under systemd init (cgmanager issue?)" [Undecided,New]15:25
xnoxdidrocks: ah, bugs. ok =)15:25
xnoxdidrocks: converting desktop to systemd-usersession should be easy.15:26
xnoxdidrocks: converting phone is not that easy, however I have good thought on how to implement it.15:26
didrocksxnox: we already don't have the resources the migrate all system services (look at the progress we got), and seb128 was talking about the unity8 session on desktop, so basically converting phone15:27
didrocksxnox: clearly not achievable this cycle looking at the remaining WI15:27
xnoxdidrocks: wrt. to the bug report -> ubuntu-app-launch should be converted to use systemd. Isn't snappy using systemd to launch things?!15:28
xnoxdidrocks: and the bug is with click app launching, rather than unity8.15:28
didrocksxnox: that would be for mvo, but I guess it's only system service, so easy ;)15:29
didrocksxnox: under an unity8 session on the unity8 preview desktop15:29
xnoxdidrocks: we have a big chunk on the phone of "things in the container, exported to upstart, jobs launched on the system"15:29
didrocksxnox: we don't use click on the unity7 session15:29
xnoxdidrocks: i have a thought of generating units for those, and having the bridge start & stop those units, and everything else binding to them.15:29
xnoxpitti: ogra_ ^15:29
xnoxjodh: ^15:30
xnoxit should be simple enough to implement inside the current upstart socket bridge.15:30
didrocksinteresting15:30
xnoxxnox: well the socket bridge may need a rename as it's: upstart-events or systemd-generator15:30
hallynarges: I pushed a new one that combines the two15:31
argeshallyn: even better.15:31
hallynarges: thanks, ttyl :)15:32
argeslater15:34
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
argeshallyn: for bug 1403648 chiluk says the current patch is not acceptable for SRU15:53
ubottubug 1403648 in libvirt (Ubuntu Utopic) "Apparmor denies qemu access to a number of important directories." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140364815:53
argeshallyn: so we may  need another upload for just the one fix instead of combining them15:53
argeschiluk: can you update the bug so that its clear the fix as it stands isn't ready and why?15:53
chilukarges basically I wanted to investigate why qemu needs access to /tmp....15:54
chilukas security doesn't like giving access to /tmp for security reasons.15:55
chilukarges it might be better solved by patching libvirt to use something like /tmp/qemu or /tmp/libvirt for tmp files and giving it write access to that.15:55
argeschiluk: ok makes sense, i'll reject it. sorry hallyn ...15:56
chilukarges also one of the permitted directories will likely need to be added to the ceph charm.15:58
hallyni'll just wait for chiluk's patch15:59
hallynchiluk: i was going based on jdstrand's comments15:59
hallynnote that for vivid libvirt simply denys the access15:59
argeshallyn: ok to reject? (haven't done it yet)16:00
chilukhallyn... I haven't reviewed your patch.16:00
hallynonly for SRU does it allow it, to prevent breakges16:00
chilukI'm currently in a meeting.16:00
hallynarges: yeah i have the source.  i'll re-upload without that particular fix16:00
chilukI'll take a look right after this.16:00
hallyn\o16:00
argeshallyn: ok cool. what a fun morning16:00
lamontseb128: after more review, yeah, +1.  adding a comment to the bug16:01
seb128lamont, hey, thanks!16:02
seb128lamont, do you plan to handle uploads as well?16:02
=== G4MBY is now known as PaulW2U
hallynarges: oh, so you should reject the utopic libvirt one for the same reason16:05
chilukhallyn arges, really the question should be why does libvirt /qemu try to access /tmp... And if it really shouldn't be accessing /tmp why not patch libvirt/qemu to not do so in the first place.16:05
argeshallyn: ok done16:06
hallynchiluk: i don't believe libvirt is doing it16:06
hallynchiluk: i believe that's on your end.  we're jsut trying to accomodate what you want.  i could be wrong...16:06
chilukyeah I'm pretty sure it's just qemu16:06
hallynok16:07
chiluksilencing the messages is pretty important... as it's filling up logs for anyone running even a moderately sized cloud16:07
lamontseb128: it's committed for 2.11.3-2.  There's even a chance that I'll upload it within 7-10 days... :(16:07
hallynchiluk: for vivid those are now silenced16:07
hallynarges: ok, new trusty upload without the /tmp junk pushed16:08
seb128lamont, ok, I guess we can unsubscribe the sponsors at least, it's going to make it in one way or another ;-)16:08
chilukhallyn I was hoping to get feedback from the customer on this before proceeding with the SRU as well.16:08
lamontseb128: when I upload it to debian, it will be merged with ubuntu (hopefully with no -1s...), to make the merge easier16:09
hallynFEH16:09
chilukcrap you guys are working too fast..16:09
chilukok I'm out of my meeting now.16:09
hallynarges: please delete them all, i should have kept the cpeh.conf perms16:09
hallynchiluk: it's a context switch thing, i want this put aside before i lose data16:09
seb128lamont, k, anyway I unsubscribe the sponsors, you are in charge of it now ;-)16:09
lamontseb128: ack16:09
argeshallyn: ok16:09
hallynarges: sorry.16:10
hallynchiluk: i think we should have a separate bug about the /tmp access stuff16:10
argeshallyn: its no problem16:10
didrocksjamespage: hey! small question on radosgw-agent: nothing (no UI/web) is changing ENABLED=yes/no in /etc/default/radosgw-agent right? I can replace that with an upstart override on upgrade?16:10
hallynchiluk: unless you think i should put the 'deny /tmp/** r" stuff in SRU, to silcence the denials?16:10
hallynchiluk: and then we fix any resulting breakages in anew bug?16:10
chilukhallyn I'm not following... so a bug for libvirt apparmor profile , and for one to patch qemu accessing /tmp?16:10
hallynchiluk: right the current bug is  mostly about /**/ceph.conf denial right?  and /tmp is a secondary issue16:11
chilukwell it's really more about silencing apparmor than anything else.16:11
chilukor it should be.16:11
hallynso you're ok with SRU for now deniying the /tmp access silently?16:12
chilukhallyn according to jdstrand comment #12   the SRU should be permissive of those directories..16:13
chilukif I'm reading it correctly.16:13
jamespagedidrocks, I'd need to refresh my memory16:13
hallynchiluk: that's what my original sru did16:13
chilukhallyn... I never said to reject the sru... nor did anyone give me a chance to review it.16:13
hallynso if you're ok with that i can re-upload :)16:14
didrocksjamespage: the upstart service is disabled by default and you control the enablement state thanks to this setting. As we try to get read of those ENABLED=yes/no when switching to systemd, I want to ensure I'm not going to break you :)16:14
chilukyeah I'm ok with permissive for the sru to silence apparmor ... I think that's what jdstrand intended...16:15
hallynright16:15
chilukso yeah go ahead and re-upload.16:15
chilukhallyn .. I'll write the SRU template16:15
hallynthx16:16
hallynleft hand is holding a phone, right a coffee;  i'll upload it in a bit16:16
chilukhallyn am I correct in my apparmor understanding that without an explicit rule apparmor is permissive ?16:17
hallynno16:17
hallynit by default denies, noisily16:17
chilukhmm so we are changing the original behavior16:17
hallynyes16:17
jamespagedidrocks, ah right16:17
hallynthat's why jdstrand was hesitant16:17
chilukhallyn that makes me wonder why jdstrand suggested making it permissive then.16:17
jamespagedidrocks, the problem there is that there is no good default configuration16:18
hallynchiluk: bc not breaking users is important16:18
didrocksjamespage: that's fine, I can ship an .override by default to disable the job16:18
hallyn(for sru)16:18
jamespagedidrocks, awesome16:18
didrocksjamespage: and handling upgrade with removing it if the previous version was "yes"16:18
didrocksok, doing that then, thanks!16:18
jamespagedidrocks, right16:18
hallynchiluk: so i'd appreciate you running your workloads on vivid so we can track down what failures the denials cause :)16:18
chilukhallyn, but if apparmor denies by default, then the /tmp has always been getting denied.16:18
hallynyes, it's just noisy16:19
chilukso why not make it an explicit denial for the SRU?16:19
chilukI'm not arguing one way or the other.16:19
chilukhallyn just a little confused.16:19
hallynlet's see if jdstrand has a comment on that.  maybe he thought you were having to work around it by adding the permission?16:20
chilukmaybe..16:20
jdstrandwhat is the bug number?16:20
smoseranyone else use chromium on vivid? once i do a hangout i lose keyboard input entirely to chromium.16:20
chilukjdstrand, 140364816:20
jdstrand"However I also don't want to break existing setups by adding an explicit deny rule that would block all access to /tmp and /var/tmp if the user updated policy for that or is putting disks in /tmp for testing environments"16:21
jdstrandyes, it was denied before16:21
=== roadmr is now known as roadmr_afk
jdstrandbut, if the user adjusted their policy to allow it, I was saying I didn't want to break that16:21
hallyni see16:21
chilukwouldn't dpkg resolve user updated policys?16:21
smoserit sounds like https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=360388 or http://askubuntu.com/questions/457541/unable-to-type-anything-on-chromium16:22
jdstrandit would show the difference, yes16:22
argessmoser: i've had that happen to me on chromium, but not on chrome. could be 1307648 resurfacing?16:22
chilukhallyn jdstrand, so wouldn't it be better to keep the behavior as it is then, and let the user resolve the config difference on upgrade?16:23
jdstrandit is a very tricky thing modifying config files in SRUs16:23
jdstrandpeople sometimes do the wrong thing16:23
smoserright.l thats the other link.16:23
smoserarges, you just run 'ibus exit' ?16:23
smoserthat does seem to fix it, but i'm not sure what other fallout there would be.16:23
jdstrandnote that the access I granted was very small-- read on the directory, not on the files in the directory16:24
argessmoser: yea seems like there should be a better solution. branded chrome works fine, so maybe there is a patch that hasn't made it to chromium to fix this16:24
jdstrandit is just enough access to remove confusion as opposed to adding something that could potentially break people16:24
jdstrandimo, that is a reasonable SRU compromise16:25
chilukarges hallyn ^^^^ ... how do you guys feel about that.16:25
jdstrandit weighs the confusion caused by the bug against the slight additional access of VMs being able to ls /tmp and /var/tmp16:26
jdstrandwithout adding a possibility for regression16:26
argesI think if jdstrand is happy with any security implications then it seems reasonable.16:27
chilukok.. so the original upload sounds good to me then http://launchpadlibrarian.net/194182873/libvirt_1.2.2-0ubuntu13.1.8_1.2.2-0ubuntu13.1.9.diff.gz16:28
chilukhallyn arges jdstrand I'll do some testing today on this... hopefully I don't find anything interesting.16:30
jdstrandI am. I don't like the access, but the denial leads to confusion. the access is very limited and guarantees no chance of regression. with what is in vivid, all future releases properly deny it16:30
* smoser installs chrome16:31
hallynarges: so do you magically have what you need to accept the right one? :)16:31
* hallyn waves his hands "magic"16:31
chilukhah.16:31
argeshallyn: well since i went on a rejection rampage, there isn't anything in teh queue, can you re-upload the version that chiluk requests?16:32
chilukarges... too fast..16:32
jdstrandhallyn: actually, before you upload16:33
jdstrandhallyn: can you add a comment above the accesses that it only allows read access to the directory to workaround the bug (and reference the bug number)?16:33
hallynarges: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=libvirt  ?16:33
hallynjdstrand: i did reference the bug#16:34
hallyn" # avoid spurious denials (see lp#1403648)"16:34
jdstrandhallyn: eg: # workaround LP: #1403648 by allowing read access to the directory. This will be removed in future releases16:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1403648 in libvirt (Ubuntu Utopic) "Apparmor denies qemu access to a number of important directories." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140364816:34
hallynok16:34
jdstrandhallyn: well, something like that. whatever you think16:34
hallyni'm taking your text and pushing16:35
hallyn(in a few mins)16:35
jdstrandhallyn: thanks. I think that will make things clearer for 14.10 to 15.04 and LTS to LTS upgrades too16:35
jdstrand(for people who did modify the poolicy and are seeing the diff)16:35
argesi'll check it in a bit... brb16:36
=== roadmr_afk is now known as roadmr
infinityxnox: multiarch in the glibc world means GNU IFUNC.16:52
hallynjdstrand: chiluk: arges: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libvirt  and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=libvirt . hopefully those do what you guys wanted16:53
jdstrandthe apparmor changes lgtm16:54
hallynthanks!  ttyl16:55
jdstrandthank you! :)16:57
=== roadmr is now known as roadmr_afk
=== roadmr_afk is now known as roadmr
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
=== marcoceppi_ is now known as marcoceppi

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!