[09:52] <silverlion> good morning everyone
[09:56] <popey> hello silverlion
[09:57] <elfy> good morning silverlion popey
[09:58] <silverlion> how is everybody doing?
[09:58] <czajkowski> sleepy and have a cold but happy it's Friday
[09:58] <popey> GREAT!
[09:58] <popey> Happy happy!
[10:00] <czajkowski> EXCELLENT!
[10:09] <silverlion> czajkowski : hope you're feeling better soon
[10:11] <elfy> good here thanks silverlion
[10:11] <elfy> and yea cold better by the weekend czajkowski :)
[10:35] <czajkowski> not looking forward to an 11 hr flight with a cold
[10:35] <czajkowski> :(
[10:36] <elfy> oh good lord - I can imagine :(
[14:32] <belkinsa> popey, have you e-mailed the UW Mailing-list on how to get invoulved in Ubuntu Phone Project?
[14:37] <popey> belkinsa: no, its on my to-do list
[14:38] <belkinsa> Okay, thank you.
[14:38] <belkinsa> And can do you me a favor and join the list but set yourself to NOMAIL so it can be easy on the mod?
[18:18] <ian-weisser> Er, why is one entry in today's Planet Ubuntu a giant advert?
[18:25] <jose> pleia2, mhall119, cprofitt, elfy: ^
[18:26] <jose> http://deshack.net/why-choose-magento-ecommerce-software/ is the post Ian is referring to
[18:26] <czajkowski> yes it'sa tad long
[18:27] <ian-weisser> Ah, looked deeper into it. Open source software. Not the way I'd have done it, but not a hijack.
[18:27] <jose> oh thought you were away :)
[18:28] <jose> still, taking up some good space
[18:28] <ian-weisser> jose: Well, to be fair, I've wasted some width on the Planet myself or rare occasion.
[18:28] <ian-weisser> s/or/on
[18:29] <czajkowski> and some blog posts tends to expand width ways
[18:29] <czajkowski> it's a tad long and maybe could be a follow link for more detail
[18:30] <ian-weisser> I suppose that's that the price we pay for aggregation instead of human editing.
[18:34] <popey> patches welcome! :D
[18:35] <popey> (meaning the code behind planet ubuntu is crufty)
[18:35] <ian-weisser> popey: Crufty how?
[18:35] <popey> olde
[18:36] <popey> unmaintained
[18:36] <popey> smells of wet dogs
[18:36] <popey> you know.
[18:36] <pleia2> popey: where's the code repo? we have no idea what version it's running, whether it's been updated
[18:36] <pleia2> makes it kind of hard to submit a patch
[18:37] <pleia2> all we have exposed is the config stuff: https://code.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu
[18:38] <popey> good question
[18:38] <pleia2> Canonical IS isn't exactly good about making the infrastructure anywhere near transparent
[18:39] <pleia2> it would be lovely if I could submit patches instead of tickets :)
[18:39] <popey> I dont think thats fair. IS provision what they're asked to.
[18:40] <popey> The problem is planet ubuntu pre-dates that
[18:40] <popey> and is somewhat orphaned
[18:40] <pleia2> fair? transparency is a fact, not a criticism
[18:40] <popey> my point was that it's not their responsibility
[18:40] <pleia2> I didn't even realize it was orphaned
[18:40] <popey> its the responsibility of the owner
[18:41] <popey> well, I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has "owned" planet ubuntu for years
[18:41] <popey> the code I mean
[18:41] <pleia2> anyway, it's frustrating when you say "patches welcome" when they're not
[18:41] <pleia2> we have nothing to patch against
[18:41] <popey> well, that was a simple mistake on my part, I assumed the code was on lp
[18:42] <popey> it may indeed be, but I don't know where
[18:42] <pleia2> I've never been able to find it
[18:42] <pleia2> only the configs
[18:42] <popey> ok, I'll take a to-do to fix that
[18:42] <pleia2> great, thanks
[18:44] <pleia2> and my point wasn't to be disparaging against IS, this is pretty much how it is for many of our resources, we don't know how they're set up, configured or anything so all we can do is submit tickets when things go wrong
[18:45] <popey> Right, and that's kinda my point. If they're orphaned, nobody knows, not even us internal people.
[18:46] <popey> which is what we should fix.
[18:46] <popey> i.e. everything should have an owner.
[18:46] <pleia2> yeah, their ownership status is not even clear to us
[18:47] <mhall119> pleia2: popey's point is that, while what you say is true, "us" means everybody, community, canonical, even most of IS
[18:47] <pleia2> mhall119: but the community doesn't have any of the keys to any of this, or influence to change what priorities IS has at Canonical
[18:48] <pleia2> I have an 8 month ticket out there to sort out the disasterous openid transition from launchpad to Ubuntu SSO that prevents newcomers from editing help.ubuntu.com/community without jumping through hoops (I suspect most just give up)
[18:48] <mhall119> pleia2: there's maybe 1 or 2 people in Canonical with the keys to this, and maybe half of those remember anything about it
[18:48] <pleia2> it's terribly frustrating
[18:48]  * ian-weisser is seeing a lot of violent agreement here
[18:49] <mhall119> pleia2: I agree, just wanted to make clear that it's not "us" vs. "them", it's "us" vs. "legacy infrastructure"
[18:49] <pleia2> mhall119: I didn't mean to imply that
[18:50] <mhall119> I know, because I know you, but it sounded a bit like that
[18:51] <popey> Sorry if my "patches welcome" caused offence. Wasn't meant to.
[18:51] <pleia2> popey: just touched a nerve, I've been frustrated for quite some time at our inability to help with these kinds of things directly
[18:52] <popey> got a list?
[18:52] <popey> this is stuff we should facilitate
[18:53] <mhall119> in either case the process is the same, ask IS where the code lives, if it's not in a bzr branch or something available, ask for a copy and put it up somewhere
[18:53] <pleia2> off the top of my head, it would be great if we could submit MPs for planet, wiki configs, mailing list configs
[18:53] <popey> mhall119: and find an owner
[18:53]  * mhall119 assumes if you're asking for it, you're the new owner :)
[18:53]  * popey notes those 3
[18:53] <popey> well, indeed
[18:54] <popey> seems I touched the geolocation code last so now I own that
[18:54] <popey> I'm used to this
[18:54] <pleia2> hehe
[18:54] <pleia2> I'm sure I'll think of more, the pain points show themselves often
[18:55] <popey> pm me with more and I'll add to my to-do list
[18:55] <pleia2> thanks :)
[18:55] <popey> whether it's me or someone else who does it I don't know, but I want to get these noted so we can get a handle on it
[18:55] <mhall119> popey: we should replace them all with django
[18:55]  * mhall119 runs
[18:55] <popey> s/django/php/
[18:55] <mhall119> they're probably already php
[18:56] <ian-weisser> mhall119: Speaking of php...AskNot branch review
[18:56] <mhall119> is that PHP?
[18:56] <ian-weisser> It is...somewhat
[18:56] <popey> heh
[18:56] <pleia2> woo asknot
[18:56] <mhall119> asknot what language it's written in, you don't want to know
[18:57] <pleia2> ian-weisser: oh, your site was down the other day when I was trying to show the CC
[18:57] <pleia2> ian-weisser: still down :(
[18:57] <ian-weisser> pleia2: Took it down the temporary site once I had it in a LP branch.
[18:58] <ian-weisser> You can still github the html (non-wordpress) version easily.
[18:58] <pleia2> ian-weisser: ah, ok, some folks were still testing it live, can you share the code submission on list?
[18:58] <pleia2> link?
[18:59] <pleia2> I can toss it up on one of my always-on servers so folks can keep testing
[18:59] <ian-weisser> Github for HTML and Wordpress Child Theme: http://github.com/ian-weisser/asknot
[18:59] <pleia2> thanks
[19:00] <popey> pleia2: when you say "Mailing list configs" do you mean mailman ones? the ones you fettle with the web admin tool usually?
[19:00] <ian-weisser> The LP branch isn't a child theme. A little different; an edit of the exitsing theme, and an additional php function.
[19:01] <pleia2> popey: maybe it's not a big deal, but we do need to submit tickets to get mailing lists added or removed, this turned into a multi-month nightmare the last time the CC tried to clean up old lists, being able to just submit a patch against whatever config mgmt thing they're using for mailing lists to clean up the lists would have been lovely
[19:02] <popey> hmm. okay.
[19:08] <pleia2> it occurs to me that this may be old enough that they're just manually using mailman commands instead of a centralized config
[19:09] <popey> I suspect they are
[19:09] <popey> however, dholbach did an audit recently to ensure lists have owners
[19:10] <pleia2> that's good, I had to submit a ticket recently for ubuntu-marketing since the owner was an @ubuntu.com address who was no longer a member
[19:10] <pleia2> now we have two admins, so yay :)
[19:10] <popey> \o/
[19:10] <popey> a few of us run listadmin regularly too
[19:10] <popey> I'm happy to add any lists you want to my listadmin.ini, if it helps
[19:10] <pleia2> -marketing ended up with thousands of moderated posts over something like 3 years
[19:11] <pleia2> it was a big mess
[19:11] <popey> yeah, devel-discuss was the same
[19:11] <popey> took minutes to load listadmin
[19:11] <pleia2> yeah
[19:11]  * popey glares at ev
[19:12] <pleia2> and thanks, I'll let you know if I need any mod help
[19:12] <popey> I already have 12 lists in my listadmin, so a couple more wont matter ☻
[19:14] <mhall119> famous last words
[19:25] <jcastro> holy smokes
[19:25] <jcastro> marcoceppi,
[19:25] <jcastro> http://goaccess.io/
[19:26] <marcoceppi> jcastro: I like this
[19:37] <ian-weisser> pleia2, mhall119: Sent an asknot update to the mailing list, with links to the GitHub repo and LP branch, explaining the differences, how to test one or the other, and how teams can prepare.
[19:37] <pleia2> ian-weisser: thanks \o/
[19:38] <elfy> ian-weisser: thanks :)
[19:39] <ian-weisser> Sorry to have shut down my experimental server on people; didn't see too many hits that weren't me in the logs.
[19:40] <pleia2> it was just yesterday that I tried to present it to the CC during a hangout
[19:40] <pleia2> didn't save the page source and didn't know where the code was, so I couldn't go any further, I appreciate the email :)
[19:41] <ian-weisser> well, the mailing list has been so quiet recently. Like everybody snuck under a rug and hid.
[19:42] <pleia2> yeah, early january is like that
[19:42] <pleia2> also, it's easy to propose ideas and talk about problems, when it comes to working on them... :)
[19:42] <silverlion> ian-weisser : thanks for the job man. I'm sorry for not replying but my RL kept me pretty much tightend up. and it still does
[19:42] <pleia2> I'm really glad asknot has come out of this at least, it's great
[19:43] <elfy> got to agree with that
[19:43] <ian-weisser> Once asknot is up, it will be a challenge to push and cajole teams into using it
[19:43] <mhall119> thanks ian-weisser
[19:48] <ian-weisser> mhall119: I raised the branch review today not to nag, but because I'll be offline Sat/Sun/Mon. If you happen to look at it then, and have a question...
[19:52] <mhall119> ian-weisser: raised it where?
[19:52] <mhall119> I haven't been involved in the asknot stuff other than keeping a casual eye on it
[20:01] <ian-weisser> mhall119: I raised it here. You're listed as the reviewer in LP. https://code.launchpad.net/~ian-weisser/ubuntu-community-website/asknot-php/+merge/245516
[20:01] <ian-weisser> You magically showed up as the reviwere a few hours after I put in the merge request.
[20:04] <mhall119> l
[20:08] <ian-weisser> Boy, I seem to be full of good news for people today...
[20:09] <pleia2> ian-weisser: everyone is catching up post-holidays, we'll find someone on the community team to review the change :)
[20:16] <ian-weisser> pleia2: I was going to wait until Tuesday, when I'm back, then ping the Ubuntu Community Website Admins team.
[20:17] <mhall119> pleia2: FYI: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers/ubuntu-website/light-planet-theme2
[20:18] <pleia2> mhall119: woohoo, thanks!
[20:18] <ian-weisser> Maybe Wednedsay. The work has really piled up here due to the cold weather.
[20:18] <mhall119> I'm asking the web-team to get this put into a proper LP project so we can start taking those patches popey mentioned
[20:18] <pleia2> mhall119: great :)
[20:18] <ian-weisser> mhall119: Looking forward to seeing the project.
[20:18] <mhall119> that's the theme, the planet code itself is from http://intertwingly.net/code/venus/planet/
[20:19] <mhall119> ian-weisser: it's just the planet ubuntu theme branch,nothing exciting
[20:19] <pleia2> mhall119: and the code deployed is the latest version?
[20:22]  * pleia2 back to work work, so much to do, already friday
[20:34] <mhall119> pleia2: I think we're a revision or two behind: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9700554/ is the git log head
[20:35] <mhall119> well, maybe not....
[20:36] <mhall119> we actually appear to be a revision ahead of their github?
[20:37] <mhall119> ah, it looks like we've got this: https://github.com/nathan-osman/venus
[20:39] <mhall119> for which there is a pull request back into upstream https://github.com/rubys/venus/pull/19
[21:00] <czajkowski> 9pm Friday meetings are boooo :(
[21:03] <silverlion> czajkowski : they definetly are ^^
[21:04] <elfy> depends where ...
[21:04] <elfy> office yep ... dog and duck not so bad :p
[21:11] <czajkowski> at home in my office and inhaling my dinner
[21:11] <czajkowski> :)
[21:12] <mhall119> yeah, those stink
[21:12] <mhall119> just as bad as the very early morning ones
[21:13] <czajkowski> I have a few 8am ones and one evil 7am one
[21:13] <czajkowski> not every day so it's not too bad
[21:14] <mhall119> yeah, I'm not a morning person either, I'd rather have a 9pm than an 8am myself
[21:21] <czajkowski> meh I'm up either way as other half is up or gone
[21:21] <czajkowski> so lights have been on and dog is wired
[21:21] <czajkowski> :)
[21:22] <mhall119> yeah, that doesn't happen around here
[21:22] <mhall119> blake sometimes stays asleep on the couch until 10am
[21:22] <mhall119> lazy mutt
[21:23] <czajkowski> lol