[04:04] <OvenWerks> zequence, holstein: I agree in both cases. I think the key is a good tool for setup and control of audio. Different people like different DEs and ways for doing things. I think relying on a menu stub is not going to work though.
[04:05] <OvenWerks> Many of the new DEs do not handle menu stubs correctly (in fact KDE is the only one) and even xubuntu has moved away from the traditional menu.
[04:06] <OvenWerks> I happen to like the traditional, but my likes have very little to do with where things are going.
[04:14] <holstein> OvenWerks: what do you think would work?
[04:14] <holstein> OvenWerks: i totally agree the stub wont do the trick..
[04:15] <holstein> it would be nice to avoid something like "ubuntustudio-desktop-kde".. and just add the stuff into the menu into whatever the user is using
[04:17] <OvenWerks> The problem is that some DEs are moving away from the menu to search engine style appliaction starting
[04:18] <OvenWerks> There are a few well used things in a bar and the rest get searched for by typing in a search phrase.
[04:19] <OvenWerks> This is ok if the desktop files have good keyword lists and the user knows what it is they are looking for.
[04:19] <OvenWerks> holstein: ^^^
[04:19] <holstein> OvenWerks: i like that search as well..
[04:19] <holstein> OvenWerks: what do you do on you desktops?
[04:20] <OvenWerks> Some one just starting (and even someone who has been around a while) is likely to be able to miss an app that doesn't exactly fit their search
[04:20] <OvenWerks> I use the old win95 style menu.
[04:20] <holstein> OvenWerks: when i use a menu, i like that, as well
[04:20] <holstein> though, i usually dont use it
[04:21] <OvenWerks> I understand that. You are not the only one.
[04:22] <OvenWerks> The one thing that seems to be there on all the DEs is the systray. I think we will end up with an app in there
[04:23] <OvenWerks> holstein: There is a lot less use of more than one workspace as well. I think a lot of people are using more than one monitor instead.
[04:26] <OvenWerks> The mainstream DEs/OSs seem to be headed twards android style desktops, very simple with all the apps spead all over the desktop, just choose from the list. I think the idea of apps is being replaced with the idea of content, with the content desiding what app will use it
[04:29] <OvenWerks> I thihk that the way to deal with a one workspace desktop and no menu without crowding oneself out of anywhere to work is with a lot of dropdowns from the top bar.
[04:32] <OvenWerks> holstein: take qjackctl for example, one might open up to 3 windows when using it. A control window, a connections window, and a logging window. These take up space or require a user action to minmize them.
[04:35] <OvenWerks> If qjackctl is moved to the systray it will at least be controlable directly from the systray icon so that get rid of one of the windows, but often the connections window gets left open and can be quite large. The icon turns red is an xrun happens, but there is no indication of bigger trouble.
[04:39] <OvenWerks> Some applications have a good connections part of their app like ardour, but even then it only deals with where it's own i/os go, so while I can hook an Ardour i/o to an effect, I can't connect two effects together from ardour.
[04:41] <OvenWerks> So, an app that sort of deals with a group of apps like an audio session manager. Falktx apps are working towards this in fact.
[04:42] <OvenWerks> There is a lot of this stuff out there already, but it seems to me some of it has bitrot, or depends on a menu to start it or room on the screen to leave it open.
[04:44] <OvenWerks> holstein: I am having a hard time explaining what I envision in my mind... maybe even a hard time imagining what is needed.
[04:45] <OvenWerks> There is the also the problem of creating something that ends up being more in the way than helping as pulse often does for some people
[09:04] <zequence> holstein: Supporting multiple DEs in our case would just mean adding a few lines in seeds, not more.
[09:05] <zequence> I don't see how decentralizing Ubuntu Studio is counter intuitive
[09:05] <zequence> It would mean we offer an installer, and a way to get what you need for multimedia production without making any choices for the user
[09:06] <zequence> Wasn't that what you wanted?
[09:06] <zequence> Well, we make the choice as to what we include in our metas, of course
[17:10] <holstein> zequence: i think it'll be more challenging, as OvenWerks thinks..
[17:10] <holstein> but, it wont hurt to try it, at all