[00:01] bluesabre: any plans for lls and trusty? could a new version or single patches be backported? [00:15] brainwash: does trusty need a new LLS? [00:17] bluesabre: See anything upstream that might have broken that? [00:18] Unit193: broken what? (on phone) [00:18] bluesabre: Ah, not really important, but: xfpm and stuff fail to build, xdt-autogen tries to copy stuff into m4/ before creating the directory... [00:19] Oh right. Haven't had a chance to look yet. [00:20] Should be able to resolve easily though [00:23] Yes, but what caused it and shouldn't that be fixed? In the latest xfce4-screenshooter I just did a mkdir m4 :P [00:23] Anywho, figured I'd share. :P [02:46] bzr: ERROR: Connection error: while sending POST /bazaar/: [Errno 110] Connection timed out [02:46] nice [02:47] from a canonical server to the code on lp [02:48] Hah, even better than normal. [02:48] works ok at home o_o [02:55] knome: it's a bit hokey becuase the server doesn't want to talk to bazaar.launchpad.net, but static and docs are updated === PaulW2U_ is now known as PaulW2U === ochosi_ is now known as ochosi [09:44] morning everyone [09:55] hey slickyma1ter [09:55] or slickymasterWork [09:55] hey ochosi [09:56] ochosi -> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/01/15/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t15:23 [09:56] oh good [09:57] thanks for that, i overlooked it [09:57] np [10:03] morning [10:04] ochosi: thanks for mailing laney - I scrubbed us off the wiki - no idea why amijawad thought he could add us :| [10:04] ah thanks, hadn't noticed that :) [10:11] * Unit193 scratches head. [10:16] Unit193: right, so i guess we're stuck with pushing new versions of xdg-utils to ubuntu then [10:33] brainwash: i suggest you file a merge-request against xdg-utils in ubuntu to get your blanking patch in (or i can do it on top of my other MR for it if you don't wanna) [10:58] Could someone fix that Ctrl-Esc would launch applications menu in 14.04? [11:00] Currently it tries to launch xfce4-popup-menu that does not exist and I can not override the setting. [11:01] Actually, I am using mythbuntu, but isn't it the same? [11:16] no it's not - if mythbuntu don't install something, try #ubuntu-mythtv [11:24] bluesabre: trusty does not need a new lls, but it's always nice to push a bug fix release -> long term support. maybe it's not worth the effort though [11:27] ochosi: but my patch is not that important (unless we want to backport it to 14.04/14.10) [11:29] ochosi: you patch xdg-screensaver to make it compatible with ll, and the new ll already inhibits screen blanking [11:29] in 15.04 [11:30] brainwash: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/light-locker-settings/trunk/view/head:/NEWS [11:32] not many bugfixes happening other than supporting libraries post trusty [11:33] localizations not being used and some startup crash fix [11:33] so yeah, probably not worth the effort [11:34] bluesabre: any thoughts on the compton shadow workaround/fix? [11:35] basically adding a new shadow rule to the xubu default settings compton config [11:35] shouldn't hurt to add it to trunk [11:35] which disables shadows for windows with CSD [11:36] because these windows draw their own shadows now [11:36] I don't like that you reserve keyboard shortcuts Super+number. I have used to use these for setting certain video modes, some for multi display configuration. [11:37] They are very handy, if you loose access to display for some reason. [11:38] bluesabre: want to add it or should i create a branch? it basically just "shadow-exclude = [ "_GTK_FRAME_EXTENTS@:c" ]" [11:38] bluesabre: https://github.com/chjj/compton/issues/189 [11:38] I've tested it and it works fine so far [11:38] create a branch and I'll merge for you [11:38] ok [11:39] brainwash: not sure i get what you're saying. either way, your patch is ready, the ll patch isn't is the point. and until we have ll support in xdg-screensaver, yours will work just fine [11:39] jarnos: that's our default keyboard shortcuts configuration, you can easily reassign keybinds [11:42] ochosi: I mean that with your planned changes to xdg-screensaver and the new ll in 15.04, my patch won't be crucial anymore to fix reported bug on launchpad [11:42] the reported [11:42] i know [11:43] getting it merged in is the first step in getting it SRUd to trusty (if we decide to go through with that) [11:45] sadly, it's not sru worthy [11:49] brainwash, oh, for some reason I can not do that for Ctrl-Escape in Mythbuntu, where it is bind for nonexisting xfce4-popup-menu. [11:50] brainwash, I mean the keybinding I set will be added to the list, but the original one is kept and used anyway.. [11:50] jarnos: try to clear the existing keybind more than once [11:51] and the reassign your new one [11:51] then [11:52] brainwash, no matter how many times I remove it, it stays in the list. [11:52] brainwash, maybe because it is default binding. [11:54] jarnos: look at bug 1410760 [11:54] bug 1410760 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't assign Ctrl+Fn as global hotkey" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410760 [11:55] please read the comments [11:59] brainwash: who told you it's not sru worthy? [12:00] also, we can always throw the patched version in a PPA [12:01] since it'll work with older versions of light-locker too [12:02] ochosi: according to launchpad it's just a small bug and there is no major uproar which usually forces the devs to do something [12:03] PPA sounds ok [12:04] Unit193 will gladly do the packaging, right? :) [12:06] brainwash, I don't see how it is relevant. [12:07] jarnos: you have problems with a Ctrl keybind [12:09] jarnos: I suggest that you look at your xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts-xml [12:10] also, if this is a mythbuntu specific issue, then you should contact the mythbuntu devs and/or file a bug against mythbuntu [12:11] brainwash: the ctrl+esc is myth specific - it calls something that's not installled [12:11] I checked ;) [12:11] still, the user should be able to reassign the keybind without problems [12:12] brainwash, I have three of them. [12:12] jarnos: three of what? [12:12] but the default of reserving ctrl+f1 - f9 is in us too - seems rather overkill for workspaces especially when we don't do anymore than give people 1 workspace now [12:13] Settings Manager -> Keyboard, find what is using Ctrl+Esc, click Edit, change the application being called [12:13] brainwash, xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts-xml [12:13] bluesabre: yea - that's not anything for us to worry about [12:13] and it's f1- f12 reserved for workspaces [12:14] I kmow, just trying to help reduce the amount of walking around the actual steps here :) [12:14] :) [12:14] other place is Settings Manager > Window Manager > Keyboard [12:15] pleia2, ough. well, at least it's easier for me to tell you what i want changed :) [12:15] bluesabre: is the bluetooth icon issue fixed for you? [12:15] ochosi: haven't tried yet [12:16] fix was in e-xfce or something else? [12:17] jarnos: there should be only one in your .config directory [12:18] brainwash: why edit the xml instead of using settings manager? [12:18] bluesabre: yeah, should work for both e-xfce and e-xfce-dark* [12:18] don't want to edit it, we want to check if the file is broken [12:18] ok [12:19] broken = contains invalid entries :) [12:19] check permissions if it is stuck... sometimes people run things with sudo and give up ownership of their own files [12:19] bluesabre: i'd say if it works, we could do an update of xubuntu-artwork with pulling in the icons from git and get that to the archive. i think the icons should be more or less gtk3.14-ready now [12:19] sudo menulibre = x.x [12:19] oh yeah [12:20] you marked numix and greybird done.... ready to package for release with git tags and all? [12:20] knome: do you think you can get that dev-wallpaper ready soonish? i'd like to update xubuntu-artwork soonish with the icons, so that could go in too [12:20] bluesabre: i need to mark greybird 1.5.1 actually since more fixes came along after 1.5 [12:20] but in git it's all done [12:21] wanted to give it a few days to see whether more theming issues show up [12:21] and to see what you think of the catfish-sidebar and popovers now [12:21] k, tag me some releases and let me know when to package ;) [12:21] also, new tag for ali1234 [12:21] 's orion? [12:21] well that depends, it isn't actually finished [12:22] k [12:22] he said there were some padding issues [12:22] so no MR yet [12:22] that can come in later then [12:22] yup [12:22] priority is greybird+numix for now [12:23] agreed [12:24] one more thing that'll have to be fixed in the theme/s is the spinner [12:24] not sure why that's not working [12:24] larsu said he had it on his todo-list, so i'm waiting for him to figure it out [12:24] (not even sure whether it's strictly a theme issue or some problem with gtk3 itself) [12:24] ubuntu-gtk issue? [12:25] i'd rather wait than invest time in such an issue [12:25] i'd poke satya to test with fedora/ozon [12:26] also, does it work with adwaita? [12:27] larsu claimed it does, but i couldn't confirm that tbh [12:27] with adwaita there's just no spinner at al [12:27] l [12:27] you can test it easily with the printer-dialog or catfish [12:28] k, I'll have a look tonight [12:28] need to get ready for work now, bbl [12:28] sure thing, ttyl [12:28] I'll be around tomorrow morning btw, don't know the rest of my schedule [12:29] morning would be like now? [12:30] or later cause it's a saturday? [12:38] ochosi, i guess so :) [12:43] probably like now [13:26] brainwash, it has only type="empty" lines for property name="<Control>Escape" [13:45] jarnos: which ubuntu release? the notation has been changed (Control -> Primary) in 14.04 [13:46] brainwash, 14.04 [13:46] so, the linked launchpad report is relevant [13:47] I assume that mythbuntu installs a custom keyboard shortcuts xml in /etc/xdg/.. [13:47] and it has not been updated yet [13:59] jarnos: got any more question? if yes please query me instead of using this channel [14:14] ok knome, we can then put a stone on the docs conversion, at least for the moment [14:24] ? :) [14:28] * slickymasterWork wonders to what does knome question refers [14:28] * ochosi wonders what slickymasterWork's reference to "stones" refers to [14:28] ;) [14:28] aren't stones usually rolling? [14:29] slickymasterWork, i was wondering what you were referring to? :P [14:29] your cahnges to the whiteboard of the docs blueprint´ [14:29] * changes [14:30] re: PDF export? [14:30] yes [14:31] ochosi, is a portuguese expression, when you put a stone on a subject you intend to mean that it's a dead subject [14:32] yeah, i think it's not really worth it [14:33] * slickymasterWork won't question knome's assessment on the subject [14:34] yeah, i think we don't really need it [14:37] if it was only a trivial change/task to get it right, then maybe [14:37] but since it means dragging in relatively large build deps and then the output is less than sub-ideal... [14:49] we're a great community :) dholbach says so [14:50] :) [14:50] good to hear that from somebody outside [14:52] https://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2015/01/building-a-great-community/ [14:53] ooh [14:53] you could also have mentioned the lack of translators elfy [14:54] we should tweet [14:55] tweeted; pleia2, if you want to social mediaze it more: https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/556102390202761217 [14:57] slickymasterWork: I tend to forget those [14:58] sorry - I did you see you join the channel - you could have ;) [15:10] anybody help me to creat a ppa? [15:10] :(( [15:11] my linux its xubuntu [15:11] yeah, I joined but something come up here and I was unable to participate [15:12] slickymasterWork, see https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA for information [15:12] slickymasterWork: such is life [15:12] silviu, see https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA for information [15:12] lol knome [15:12] silviu, or you can ask #launchpad [15:13] slickymasterWork: that said, it's entirely likely that any translation comment would have got a "yea - others say the same thing" [15:14] i think we've got more interest with the calls [15:14] at least one finnish guy asked about helping out [15:14] good [15:15] at least that's positive - no idea what to do about testing [15:15] mh [15:15] most probably elfy [15:15] elfy, if only we would know *why* people don't test :/ [15:15] thenks [15:16] rather - why they don't report - because I would have to hope are testing [15:16] I think people 'do test' knome, thing is why don't they report it [15:16] maybe [15:16] but as you implied, their testing could be put in parenthesis... [15:17] put in parenthesis ?! [15:17] what do you mean knome ? [15:18] what i'm referring to is that many people "test" xubutnu [15:18] *xubuntu [15:18] maybe it can be called exploratory testing [15:18] I'll ask - see if people respond [15:18] elfy, ++ [15:19] late posting that - should read I've asked :p [15:19] haha [15:19] :) [15:19] :) [15:19] yeah... [15:19] if it really is something like PaulW2U said -= then I'll say what we said in here [15:20] rather you reported bug against xubuntu-foo than not at all [15:20] yep [15:20] what did he say? [15:20] elfy, maybe we can try to improve http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ [15:21] hard to know what to report issues against - which I can understand [15:21] knome: possibly - lets see what sort of responses we get [15:21] yes, I can see that elfy, but that doesn't explaing why aren't people reporting test in the tracker [15:22] knome: I for one go all cross-eyed when I look at that triage page [15:22] you already know my feelings about the qa trackers [15:22] if you do exploratory testing, then you basically can't; because you aren't following the testcases [15:22] slickymasterWork: because if you tested and there's a bug and you don't know what to report it against - you can hardly mark it passed [15:22] exactly [15:22] elfy, triage page on the website or the wiki one? :) [15:22] knome: the wiki [15:23] yeah... [15:23] "In a hospital, triage happens the instant a patient arrives through the emergency room doors. His vital signs are checked, his status assessed, and he gets sorted in amongst all the other patients waiting for treatment." [15:23] that's a good way to start.. [15:23] that's just like "We'd love you to help - but we're going to make it as hard as we possibly can for to you make any sense of the next 5000 words" [15:23] ^^ the wiki [15:24] the other day i "tested" the iso and found two bugs [15:24] i reported them both on launchpad [15:24] well there's always the possibility of marking a test, whether is a failed one, or not, and then just write some sort of a brief explanation in the commentary section [15:24] it might sound duplicating, but what if we set up our own contributor documentation (as discussed before) [15:24] we could explain things in an easy to understand way there [15:24] and once we get things done, copy that back over to the wiki [15:25] bug 1408495 and bug 1409015 [15:25] bug 1408495 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Vivid) "Ubiquity crashes prior to keyboard configuration in 15.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408495 [15:25] bug 1409015 in Ubuntu Start Page "about:startpage is in wrong language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409015 [15:25] what i don't understand, is what am i supposed to do with the qa tracker? [15:26] ali1234, we've gone through this discussion before... [15:26] yeah, i never got a good answer [15:26] ali1234, you don't have to understand it, testing and reporting bugs is enough [15:26] ali1234, or you never wanted to accept the answer [15:26] no answer was given [15:27] but please let's not waste time again listening how you think the trackers suck [15:27] slickymasterWork: you can't fail and not give a bug [15:27] just hand waving [15:27] ali1234, reporting bugs in the trackers is the only way to measure how many people ran the pre-determined tests [15:27] i don't know how to report bugs in the trackers [15:27] for better or worse - the trackers is the only thing we have to gauge that [15:27] expecially the ISO tracker [15:28] ali1234, it also helps us know which bugs were experienced with which flavors/dailies [15:28] ali1234: you don't report bugs IN the tracker - you report bugs ON the tracker - you have to have the number first [15:28] ali1234, you are supposed to file the bugs just like you do now, and then list their numbers on the tracker [15:28] knome: you're justifying the existence of the tracker, you're not saying what it is you want me to do with it [15:28] I know elfy, I was referring to situations where you go all the way through the test, you face a bug and don't no against package to file it, but the test itself isn't a fail [15:28] ali1234, i want you to report that you tested a certain ISO with a certain testcase to 1) know you did that 2) know which bugs are present with specific dailies [15:29] i didn't follow any part of the test case [15:29] ali1234, then you shouldn't report a test in the tracker [15:29] in those cases, one could just write a brief description of what happened in the commentary section elfy [15:29] ali1234: but the install testcases cover what you did I would suspect [15:29] slickymasterWork: yes - but you still then have to pass it [15:29] well then, the reason i don't report tests in the tracker is because i shouldn't report tests in the tracker. [15:30] ali1234, no, you should, but only if you follow the testcase instructions. [15:30] ali1234, which is, like elfy said, pretty much what you did anyway [15:30] except i didn't [15:30] ali1234, but to make sure, you should know what the testcase says [15:30] i didn't even read them [15:30] ali1234: so what did you actually do with the iso when you 'tested' it ? [15:30] ali1234, then read them,. [15:30] elfy: i installed it [15:31] elfy: actually i should say i attempted to install it [15:31] it didn't work [15:31] ok - something else, clean, auto-resize - os some other variable that we don't bother to report [15:32] all of the above [15:32] ali1234, next time you are running "tests", please read the testcases to confirm you are going through all the steps mentioned in them [15:32] then you don't actually need to read them - the testcases are just a list of the things that you have to do to install [15:32] ali1234, and then report a tracker report with any bugs you found [15:33] if you're doing an install - you really don't need to read it - you can't install the wrong way [15:34] there's three different test cases for installing [15:34] ali1234, you just said you did all of what elfy mentioned [15:34] ali1234, eg. each of the test case once [15:34] so you want three reports? [15:34] yes. [15:34] if you installed three times. [15:34] i failed to install three times, yes [15:35] that counts. [15:35] and if you failed to install - then they are critical bugs [15:35] ^ and the test status is failed [15:35] so just to be clear this is the list of things i need to do when i find a bug: [15:36] 1. generate hardware profile for my computer [15:36] ali1234: nope [15:36] ali1234, you can omit 1, but if you do it, you only have to do it once and then relink to the same URL [15:36] 2. format computer and attempt to install xubuntu [15:36] I don't do that [15:36] 3. confirm bug still exists [15:36] 4. report on iso tracker [15:36] 5. repeat another 2x [15:36] yes, or you can only try installing one way [15:36] unless you want to use more time installing [15:37] just doing one test is *fine* [15:37] and 3) file a bug if one doesn't exist [15:38] as i said, i already filed a bug (it's on the way to being fixed actually) [15:38] ali1234: all that you're really doing in effect is reporting the bug in one extra place - that is easy for all to see [15:38] ali1234, yes, just to clarify [15:38] yeah i would be fine with just reporting that i found this one bug on the tracker [15:39] that's really all we are asking [15:39] no, it isn't [15:39] how come? [15:39] it's all I'm asking [15:40] well i can't report it now because the iso i used to install from is like 4 days old [15:40] then zsync a newer ISO and retest [15:41] and next time, report on the same day [15:41] right, you're asking me to retest the installation every time i find a bug if it has been more than a day since the last one [15:41] reinstalling is a two hour process [15:41] reporting a bug takes 5 minutes [15:41] ali1234, that's the only way to measure accurately if the bug still exists [15:42] but really, we aren't asking you to retest every day [15:42] you reinstall/-test as often as you feel like [15:42] unless i find a bug every day [15:42] which isn;t unusual at all [15:42] in installation? [15:42] or in the installed system? [15:42] in the installed system [15:42] that's what the package tracker is for. [15:42] where is that? [15:43] and how do i use it? [15:43] packages.qa.ubuntu.com [15:43] the same way [15:43] if it's the same way then i do have to reinstall every day [15:43] no [15:43] the same way except the testcases are different [15:43] they describe a process to test the applicaiton [15:43] which is why you should READ what the test cases say [15:44] i'm just going to start filing reports with comment "did not read the testcase but this thing is broken so fail anyway" [15:44] please don't [15:44] then rather just don't file the testcase reports [15:45] filing the bugs for the applications is good enough [15:45] for example, the firefox testcase doesn't even test for the bug i found [15:45] so i should pass it on that basis? [15:45] of course, test cases can't cover everything [15:45] yes. [15:45] here's the thing [15:45] no idea - the firefox test is not listed in the xubuntu packages [15:46] i don't mind if bugs that aren't mentioned on the testcase are reported on the tracker, BUT [15:46] if you aren't reading the testcase, then you really shouldn't report in the tracker [15:47] the point is i'm not going to follow the testcase anyway [15:47] then don't report on the tracker [15:47] but please also don't come telling us how you don't understand the trackers [15:47] if you aren't going to use them as they are intended [15:47] okay, but please don't act like you can't understand why nobody is using the trackers [15:47] when you just told me not to use the tracker [15:48] ali1234, i told you not to because you said you aren't going to use them in the intended way anyway [15:48] ali1234, i'd love you to use them if you were to use them in the intended way [15:49] ali1234, i wouldn't want you to file bugs either if you were not going to file them the way they are supposed to, either [16:03] elfy, ochosi: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/tester-of-the.png [16:04] having my real name there and elfy's elf-name is just weird [16:04] heh [16:04] other than that, not bad ;) [16:04] i wondered about that, but also, first draft [16:04] it does look very formal [16:04] i guess that is intended [16:04] it's following the ubuntu certificate style [16:05] ah [16:05] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/06/14/certificates-for-ubuntu-members/ [16:05] wasn't aware of that at all [16:05] "has contributed ... contributions" [16:05] who writes like that ^ ? [16:05] lawyers? [16:07] http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/certificate-blank.png [16:11] 404 [16:12] ah, now it works [16:12] weird [16:12] :) [16:14] saw them - the look ok with only the one contribut(ed/ion) [16:37] bbl [16:38] who will be our first TotW? :) [16:39] ??? TOTW: Taste of the Wild: TotW: Tales of the World (game) TOTW: Topic of the Week: TOTW: Top of the World: TOTW: Temple of Three Winds ??? [16:55] tester of the week [16:56] ah...thanks. Didn't think it referred to dog food (much). [17:09] heh :D [17:09] ah, so that's the reason why ali1234 is interested in iso testing [17:14] pleia2: http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2015/01/an-everyday-linux-user-review-of.html [17:23] drc: cool, thanks [17:23] You still want them here rather than -ot, right? [17:30] yep [17:30] it's on topic :) [17:30] Only if it's a good review :) [18:54] oh, I did some drafting of QA+stickers blog post: http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive [18:54] given the timetable, we can publish whenever and then re-promote each time the beginning of a milestone/month begins [19:17] pleia2: which bit of it? [19:18] oh nvm - assume the bit right at the bottom :) [19:18] bottom of the pad, if that's what you're asking :) [19:18] it was - then I woke up :p [19:18] I never know what to put in the testing instructions section [19:18] ohhh - I see that [19:27] pleia2: pretend you have a new user, walk them through 1 step at a time on how to use the thing you are testing. Mkaing sure you are using it the correct way, that then sets the test step that should in theory always give the same results. If you are not sure on how to use something then you might not be the person to write the test, but you can follow someone else to ensure you get the same result and confirm [19:28] the steps as good [19:29] I hope that made sense [19:29] it did to me - but not really what's needed for this [19:30] elfy: I hope it would to you ;) [19:30]