[10:41] <zequence> infinity: lowlatency building
[15:18] <yossarianuk> hi - can I ask questions regarding recompiling the ubuntu kernel here? (i.e kernel + ubuntu patches)?
[15:19] <apw> yes you can
[15:20] <yossarianuk> cool  - well I have posted a thread here - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2261375  explaining the issue . basically the linux-source package doesn't compile when using  'debian/rules binary-headers binary-generic' - but make-kpkg does work.
[15:21] <apw> yossarianuk, which package are you calling the linux source package ?
[15:21] <apw> as in actually "linux-source-<something>"
[15:21] <yossarianuk> sorry -  i.e  'apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)'
[15:22] <yossarianuk> I remove some modules (and add the oss snd ones)   ''debian/rules binary-headers binary-generic'  - compiles the headers .deb fine - it goes through the entire process then errors at the end
[15:22] <apw> yossarianuk, it is failing there because you have turned off some modules, and they are therefore not built, and the "modules going missing" detector is telling you off
[15:23] <apw> that is there to stop us from losing modules without noticing the fact
[15:24] <yossarianuk> ok the same config works with make-kpkg - do I have to manually edit a modules file then ?
[15:24] <yossarianuk> i.e if I am changing the config where do I alter what modules are going to be built so I can use the 'debian/rules binary-headers binary-[flavour]' method
[15:25] <apw> if your goal is to deliberatly turn off modules, you need to inform the checker of the fact by modifying the debian.master/abi/*/*modules file for the falvour; or by turning off the module checks with skip_modules=1 (something like that)
[15:26] <apw> make-kpkg doesn't care at all what you do, it doesn't perform those checks
[16:10] <yossarianuk> apw: thanks - I think I tried with 'skip_modules=1' => same
[16:10] <yossarianuk> when I do updateconfigs doesn't that re-write the modules file.
[16:10] <yossarianuk> I have put the error - http://pastebin.com/C3UVxN7H
[16:11] <apw> yossarianuk, it is skipmodule=1, hense my ish the first time
[16:12] <apw> yossarianuk, i had assumed you would look at debian/rules and find the correct option
[16:21] <apw> yossarianuk, and ... no when you updateconfigs it does not update the abi/modules list because that is for the previous build, and is there for comparison with what you have now
[16:21] <yossarianuk> thanks apw: i'll check exactly what options I tried (i did do various attempts) - I am sure I did use skipmodules/skip_modules... i'm @ work at the min (and did this @ home)
[16:21] <yossarianuk> (nothing preventing me trying to compile from here - booth same CPU type..)
[16:23] <yossarianuk> i'll give it another go....
[16:23] <yossarianuk> (i wish the oss modules were in the ubuntu kernel.....) - some old games I play need OSS - aoss/pdoss do not work.
[16:24] <apw> they interfere with the oss emulation that pulse does
[16:25] <yossarianuk> in my experience oss emulation never works (maybe its my h/w - intel HDA)
[16:25] <yossarianuk> with some games anyway
[16:26] <yossarianuk>  namly paintball2 - works on all distros that don't remove the oss modules (i.e arch/debian stable/opensuse/fedora)
[16:26] <yossarianuk> (on most I have to manually load the OSS modules though)
[16:34] <apw> yossarianuk, and do we know why pulse oss emulation does not work for htem 
[16:34] <apw> ?
[16:35] <apw> diwic, we do still support oss emulation via pulseaudio right ?
[16:50] <diwic> apw, uhm...PA certainly still has OSS emulation, but I wouldn't go as far as saying we actively support it - OSS is very old and unusual these dates
[16:51] <diwic> apw, also I'm not sure that userspace emulation via pulseaudio can ever be as good as the kernel emulation, but take that with a grain of salt as I haven't investigated the issue in depth
[16:52] <diwic> apw, now that I think of it, I think there was some mixer related stuff that was only in the kernelspace emulation and not in PA emulation. But if that was just Lennart being too lazy to implement it, or if it actually was impossible, I'm not sure
[16:53] <apw> "you don't want to use that anyway" i am sure
[16:55] <yossarianuk> all I know is every form of oss emulation I have ever tried (on multiple desktops/laptops) has never worked (hence be building a kernel with the modules in) - in the past the only way i've got paintball2 to work is build the kernel...
[16:56] <yossarianuk> would be best to include the oss modules in the kernel but not activate/load them by default.
[16:56] <yossarianuk> (imo)
[16:56] <apw> diwic, i assume if we built them as modules and blacklisted them, that pulse would be ok
[17:02] <yossarianuk> would save the odd random person like me having to compile kernels....
[17:02] <yossarianuk> all other distro have them in the kernel btw
[17:03] <yossarianuk> (all others that I have checked - even arch)
[17:06] <apw> yossarianuk, could you file a bug against the package linux and write this reasoning down in it please, use ubuntu-bug linux, then we can consider it properly and note down the whys when we have
[17:06] <apw> (and let me know the number here)
[17:07] <yossarianuk> okie - i'll have to do it when @ home  - shall i include the issues I get with pulse emulation ?
[17:07] <apw> yeah, and mention where they are available etc
[17:08] <yossarianuk> ok - btw this is similar (old post - not mine..)
[17:08] <yossarianuk> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/238040
[17:09] <yossarianuk> this too - http://askubuntu.com/questions/318396/oss-compat-package-does-not-create-dev-dsp
[17:09] <yossarianuk> no /dev/dsp...
[17:09] <yossarianuk> apw: I assume doing the report from kubuntu will be fine also ? (I can setup ubuntu if need be.)
[17:10] <apw> that will work just fine
[17:10] <yossarianuk> cool - cheers
[17:10] <diwic> IIRC, the reason for removing OSS was that if somebody played back through kernel OSS emulation, that would block PA from outputting during that time (OSS got exclusive sound card access)
[17:11] <apw> diwic, it was something like that, and i think there was something about if the modules were loaded something used it first too
[17:11] <apw> diwic, so if they came back it would be blacklisted i think, so you'd have to force them in
[17:12] <diwic> there have been talks over the years about a better kernelspace OSS emulation (that would route itself back into PA?!) but I don't think that has made it into mainline
[17:13] <apw> heh ... trying to make my head hurt me thinks
[20:20] <aeoril> What are good resources to learn OS theory, architecture, etc. to help with my long term goal of becoming a kernel/driver/module/vm programmer?  I bought "Modern Operating Systems" by Tannenbaum and it seems very promising, but it has typos and possible errors so I am not sure how good it is.  I want to long term slowly get into this type of development and work on Ubuntu doing it as 
[20:20] <aeoril> part of the Ubuntu development community.  I am already reading various Ubuntu wikis and documentation, but am interested in starting out with stuff more like what I would learn at University to prepare myself as best I can.  Thanks.
[20:30] <aeoril> kernel.org has a very nice set of articles for kernel newbies, but nowhere did I see mention of a bibliography of (text)books for theory and academic understanding of os and kernel development
[20:54] <infinity> zequence: Thanks.  In -proposed now and ready for smoketesting.
[21:08] <chris112> i'm running utopic and like to start using btrfs. would it be advisable to install kernel 3.17.1 from here http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ ? any reason there is no 3.18.3 for utopic?
[21:50] <apw> chris112, i assume you are rejecting the 3.18.3 because of the -vivid suffix?  this suffix indicates the release from which the config comes, whichever is nearest to the version
[21:51] <apw> chris112, that said, if you are on utopic, the testing i have seen against btrfs has been pretty good on v3.16, much more so than v3.13
[22:46] <umoukun> Hey all, is a list of all issues for a particular revision available somewhere?