[00:26] <alesage> project-team https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test/+merge/247079 when you have a moment
[00:27]  * veebers looks
[00:28] <alesage> charles FYI ^^
[00:52] <veebers> alesage, charles: diffline 26, this seems odd to me as _get_device_emulation_scenarios should take care of this
[00:53] <charles> veebers, ack
[00:53] <alesage> veebers, ok will test without
[00:59] <charles_> I wonder if we're doing the setup wrong -- if I just comment out difflines 28-29, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/9800069/
[01:00] <veebers> charles, alesage: I believe line 23 is incorrect and you won't be getting any scenarios.
[01:01] <veebers> device_emulation_scenarios should just be named scenarios
[01:02] <alesage> veebers, I think we're both EODing, just leave some notes?  and we'll serve in AM
[01:03] <veebers> ack, I'm currently leaving notes on the MP. Mentioned some quick fires here for realtime convo
[01:03] <charles> veebers, thanks for both :)
[01:04] <veebers> charles: no worries :-)
[01:04] <charles> looks like you're right about line 23
[01:07] <veebers> I'm always right about line 23
[01:07] <veebers> heh, perhaps thats enough coffee for today :-P
[01:08] <alesage> veebers hah
[03:55] <sak> hey balloons. I hope you don't mind but I had to correct some grammar errors on the ubuntu-emulator wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Emulator
[04:23] <dhooligan> Hey is anyone around that can help a new contributor?
[04:26] <dhooligan> I'm installing a package with bzr and it says OUT-OF-DATE. Will this need to be fixed? I have an easy-to-do bug ready.
[04:31] <balloons> the package is out of date or?
[04:31] <balloons> bzr pull will update the branch
[04:38] <dhooligan> it was with a bzr branch command
[04:39] <dhooligan> bzr pull also gives the line "Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE"
[04:41] <balloons> http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/udd-getting-the-source.html?
[04:41] <dhooligan> Here is the bug that I am trying to complete if it helps. (I got it off of the papercuts website) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iptables/+bug/1177132
[04:42] <dhooligan> Yeah, I was just looking at that page. I was hoping it wouldn't have actually been an issue
[04:44] <dhooligan> On a side note would you know how to find more recent easy bugs? Papercuts seems to be all 3 years old. I just found the Harvest page and most of those seem to be outdated as well
[05:05] <balloons> dhooligan, you can sort bugs by bitesize and see what is newer
[05:05] <balloons> or look at bugs for your favorite project. if you ask on a list, someone is sure to send you there pet bug to fix :-)
[13:58] <aikidouke> question...have lub 32 daily build in a vm and trying to get systemd running
[13:58] <aikidouke> added the init line recommended and ran update grub, but get kernel panic on boot
[13:58] <aikidouke> is there anything else i need to do?
[14:20] <aikidouke> answered my own question...no trying to test w/o sufficient caffeine, sorry
[15:25] <paulliu> alesage: hi. About indicator-power-autopilot-test.
[15:25] <alesage> paulliu, hiya
[15:26] <paulliu> alesage: I don't know how to adjust the battery percentage.
[15:26] <paulliu> alesage: let me push a branch. wait
[15:26] <alesage> paulliu, ok let me open the code one sec--do you have a branch going?
[15:28] <paulliu> alesage: lp:~paulliu/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test-20150121
[15:28] <paulliu> alesage: when I run test111, it doesn't show the notifications. And also the battery icon is still full.
[15:29] <alesage> paulliu, ok, note that you'll need a special build of indicator-power (if you're copying charles' and my work)
[15:30] <alesage> paulliu, I can show you how to do that in a second
[15:30] <paulliu> alesage: ok.
[15:34] <alesage> paulliu, sorry catching up with you :) , another minute
[15:35] <alesage> paulliu, the indicator-power branch is here lp:~charlesk/indicator-power/custom-bus-for-upower , branch that and build and install (and please let me know if you need help with)
[15:37] <alesage> paulliu, cool test btw :)
[15:44] <paulliu> alesage: ok. I'll try it.
[15:44] <paulliu> alesage: thanks a lot.
[15:44] <alesage> paulliu, happy to help
[16:00] <alesage> paulliu, let me know if you get stuck
[16:26] <elopio> paulliu: I've send you an email about the display branch, and made the MP for you to review.
[16:54] <balloons> ping elfy
[16:55] <elfy> pong balloons
[16:56] <balloons> elfy, with ugj coming up and alpha 2 rumbling along, testing is kicking into gear and the pain points around getting a usb key to install ubuntu seems to be growing. Thoughts on making this better / easier for folks?
[16:56] <balloons> I know you have opinions on this :-)
[16:57] <elfy> fix bugs?
[16:57] <elfy> make things work properly?
[16:57] <elfy> not really sure what else I could say :D
[16:58] <elfy> I tried the ubuntu tool recently - but can't remember if it was vivid with vivid iso failed or vivid with trusty iso failed
[16:58] <balloons> elfy, my thought was perhaps to recommend other tools that provide a better experience perhaps. Or at least give alternatives, since folks are commonly hitting issues with what we recommend now
[16:58] <elfy> mmm
[16:59] <elfy> well I have had issues with dd/unetbootin and the ubuntu tool tbh
[16:59] <balloons> I'm loathe to broaden the recommendations, but if you are really having that much trouble using the default tools, and we can't fix them . . .
[16:59] <balloons> elfy, so how is that possible that nothing works?
[17:00] <elfy> because I know how to get around the issue I suppose
[17:00] <elfy> ummm
[17:00] <elfy> I can check what happens with tools from a vivid and trusty install
[17:00] <balloons> well I mean; if nothing works are we blaming the image or the usb key or ?
[17:01] <elfy> so if nothing else we can have a crib sheet
[17:01] <elfy> pretty sure that the big issue is this bug 1325801
[17:02] <elfy> not used dd for a while
[17:02] <elfy> nor have I tried Nik's mkusb tool either
[17:03] <elfy> balloons: when is ugj?
[17:04] <elfy> that's my main worry atm - we're not doing a2
[17:06] <balloons> elfy, 2 weeks
[17:06] <balloons> I mean, if mkusb is the way to go... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb/isotesting
[17:07] <elfy> balloons: I'll spend a bit of time trying 'the tools we know' and see where we are over the next day or so
[17:07] <elfy> I can do vivid images from trusty and vivid install
[17:08] <elfy> not got a utopic to work with anymore
[17:14] <balloons> I guess having a single alternative is ok; if you're willing to try things and come up with a good suggestion I think it's worth adding
[17:14] <balloons> I usually just dd things myself
[17:16] <elfy> I always end up searching for dd syntax ...
[17:17] <elfy> and I rarely manage to get one to boot either :p
[17:18] <elfy> balloons: have you got a utopic install that you can check things with?
[17:19] <balloons> elfy, only a vm sadly. Everything's upgraded or is LTS
[17:20] <elfy> funny that - exactly the same situation here :D
[17:21] <elfy> perhaps a mail to the QA list from the Community QA Manager asking if anyone still has one and can spend an hour checking 3 or 4 options and reporting back
[17:22] <balloons> elfy, we could openly poll folks. So we have mkusb, testdrive, usb startup creator, unetbootin; what else do people use?
[17:22] <elfy> balloons: afaik testdrive=vbox and vbox is working for me
[17:22] <balloons> it all works for me
[17:22] <balloons> so . . . ;-(
[17:23] <elfy> heh
[17:23] <paulliu> elopio: ok. I'll review that tomorrow.
[17:23] <elfy> balloons: ok - bbs - got 2 to reboot with now
[17:49] <elfy> balloons: ok so I have booted with dd/unetbootin/sdc and mkusb(which is more or less a front end for dd) all all work ok creating vivid images while using vivid
[17:51] <balloons> right, hehe, awesome..
[17:53] <elfy> I can't remember having these issues during the LTS test cycle tbh
[18:34] <balloons> elfy, so there's no problem then?
[18:37] <elfy> balloons: well ... depends if people that are testing this are starting from vivid doesn't it?
[18:38] <balloons> elfy, they are most likely to be running the lts or potentially utopic. Since it's hard to nail down exactly why folks are having trouble with this, it's hard to fix it. I mean, installing a stable version of ubuntu requires the same thing
[18:38] <balloons> there is nothing special about testing in burning an image
[18:38] <elfy> yea, let me see what gives writing images from lts and utopic
[18:39] <elfy> and no - there's nothing special about it I agree - but regardless of that - people have had problems
[18:41] <knome> balloons, i'll start pestering you with questions about the wiki now... if you run away, i will find you
[18:41] <knome> balloons, what's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre actually used for?
[18:41] <knome> does people check who is listed on that page when they want an expert on subject X?
[18:41] <knome> or is it just for measuring something?
[18:41] <knome> where's the statistics?
[18:41] <balloons> knome, nice.. it's been that kind of day, so bring it
[18:43] <balloons> knome, honestly, I guess it's a wiki thing. folks wanted to be able to state what they do since qa is so large
[18:43] <knome> yes, but is that information used by anyone?
[18:44] <knome> another question...
[18:44] <knome> is there any reason why https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest isn't merged with the calendar page?
[18:44] <knome> (or the other way)
[18:44] <balloons> knome, the question is impossible to answer beyond myself. I have used the page, but I don't personally use it
[18:45] <balloons> re: hackfests, open to suggestions for merging into the calendar page. That page also talks about what hackfests are
[18:45] <knome> any way to make the "Getting Involved" section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam any shorter?
[18:45] <knome> it's currently a long list and anybody would have a hard time following that
[18:46] <knome> let alone when you've just started
[18:46] <balloons> knome, edit it? :-p Of course, our landing page has gotten large again
[18:46] <balloons> I like to have small landing pages
[18:46] <knome> me too
[18:46] <knome> next one:
[18:46] <knome> do we have documentation on creating USB sticks?
[18:47] <knome> and if yes, why is that behind so many links?
[18:47] <balloons> see the earlier discussion, but yes
[18:47] <knome> is testdrive actually still working/actively used?
[18:47] <balloons> look at http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop; has howto's for linux/win/mac
[18:48] <balloons> i still occasionally use testdrive, but it does seem it will forever be py2 and is more or less critical bugs only
[18:48] <knome> so would it make sense to start phasing that out
[18:49] <balloons> yes, I think so. It's worth discussing how we suggest folks test as it's become a pain point since people are using usb sticks now, and often running into issues
[18:50] <balloons> there's nothing special about testing in this regard. making a bootable usb is not specific to testing; running a vm is the same
[18:50] <knome> ok, let's go through "Getting Involved" on the landing page more deeper
[18:50] <knome> from the "Joining" tasks, which ones are *actually* *required* ?
[18:51] <balloons> if I can make an argument back; I would actually rather we didn't have any specific instructions on creating a usb stick or running a virtual machine
[18:51] <knome> ok... as long as such instructions exist, and they work for every cycle (and updated if needed), that's okay
[18:52] <balloons> well; I mean there's nothing specific to testing. We should have good docs and help on running virtual machines and creating images, but that's in the context of the community
[18:52] <balloons> imho
[18:52] <balloons> I say this because I'd rather we kept our efforts on things that are specific to testing
[18:52] <balloons> plenty to document there :-)
[18:53] <balloons> sure, I can review the wiki with you. Reducing the landing page will help
[18:53] <knome> i'll start doing that
[18:53] <knome> expect flood in the mailbox
[18:54] <balloons> thanks knome. I really do like others eyeballs on things like the wiki
[19:34]  * knome facepalms at the wiki
[19:35] <knome> balloons, let's start with this facelift.
[19:36] <knome> now the next step would be to clean the role pages and the FAQ
[19:37] <knome> at least IMO
[19:38] <knome> would help to have a unified banner for each tester role which summarized the most common role tasks and characteristics
[19:38] <knome> and what i think is weird is that the first thing that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/Tester says after the summary is "we can help if you get stuck"
[19:39]  * balloons looks
[19:39] <balloons> I like the revamped page alot
[19:39] <knome> do you mind me removing any references to testdrive i find?
[19:40] <balloons> why is that?
[19:40] <knome> i'll leave the pages related to it, but i'd rather not see mentions of it if the QA lead doesn't know if it works or not
[19:40] <balloons> I mean, why remove.. ahh
[19:40] <knome> who supports using testdrive?
[19:40] <balloons> the walkthrough still recommends it
[19:40] <knome> why isn't it mentioned before anything else in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentInstall
[19:40] <knome> the walkthrough can do this or that
[19:40] <knome> but if that doesn't reflect the real situation, it's a useless walkthrough
[19:41] <balloons> I'm not opposed. As I said, I think I'd rather reduce our docs in that area, but others might not agree
[19:41] <knome> if somebody comes asking here how to use testdrive, what do you tell them?
[19:41] <knome> i know elfy says he doesn't use it and that there are other ways you can get started
[19:41] <balloons> they are free to use it; it works for me and I think I use it every cycle
[19:42] <knome> so is it the number one suggested (and supported) tool?
[19:42] <balloons> knome, as we were talking about it currently is yes, but I think we should consider / change it
[19:42] <knome> ok
[19:42] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentInstall
[19:42] <balloons> we currently say use testdrive, use a vm, then move to real hardware
[19:43] <knome> since that page is the first link that is supposed to explain installing a development release, it should have at least links to the instructions on how to set up a VM - and how to create an USB stick
[19:45] <knome> for testers, is this task list in the right priority order?
[19:45] <knome> 1) exploratory testing
[19:45] <knome> 2) bug triaging
[19:45] <knome> 3) manual testing
[19:45] <knome> shouldn't at least 2 be 3?
[19:46] <knome> i thought the bug triagers did 2...
[19:46]  * elfy wanders off to make a cuppa before reading all of this ... 
[19:47] <knome> elfy, it's probably not worth it, it's a lot of knome whining ;)
[19:47] <balloons> for testers, I would say exploratory, manual, triaging
[19:48] <knome> wouldn't triaging be "other activity" ?
[19:48] <balloons> true yes
[19:48] <elfy> balloons: on the earlier discussion - using utopic to create vivid images - dd/sdc and mkusb all work as expected, unetbootin gets the com32 error, which you can force by <tab> then running unetbootin
[19:48] <balloons> triaging techinically would be under the triager role
[19:48] <elfy> knome: heh - I'd *never* expect that - but I'll read it nonetheless :D
[19:48] <knome> balloons, it is also there...
[19:49] <knome> balloons, i've moved the triaging part to other activities for tester
[19:49] <balloons> k
[19:49] <knome> feel free to disagree, but if we're making up these roles, i don't think two roles should have the same "main" activities
[19:49] <balloons> elfy, sounds about right.. unetbootin is a little funny sometimes, but the others working make sense, as I don't know why they wouldn't or don't
[19:51] <knome> if the others work without exceptions, why aren't they covered in (our) tutorials?
[20:00] <knome> there are too many pages under QATeam and Testing.
[20:00] <knome> it's impossible to find all the information from those pages even if you know how to get around
[20:02] <elfy> balloons: agreed - but I'm still not convinced about sdc
[20:02] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KeyPositions
[20:02] <knome> is that accurate?
[20:02] <knome> why isn't it listed under Contact?
[20:03] <balloons> elfy, sdc?
[20:03] <elfy> the ubuntu one - not typing that long name out :)
[20:03] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KeyPositions looks really ancient
[20:03] <knome> like 2013-02
[20:03] <elfy> I'd say ...
[20:03] <elfy> Forums feedback coordinator - Murat Gunes - who? what?
[20:03] <knome> i know pleia2 will hate me this, but my proposal is:
[20:04] <knome> delete the page.
[20:04] <balloons> I don't believe I've ever seen such a page
[20:04] <knome> if somebody longs for it, the page history is still there to be reverted back
[20:04] <balloons> already deleted
[20:05] <balloons> it's from 2008
[20:05] <knome> ;)=
[20:05] <knome> balloons, anything else in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Index you see that can be deleted?
[20:06] <balloons> elfy, ahh yes, I'm not convinced persay either, but it's the official tool; we recommend on downloads, etc
[20:07] <elfy> well - not quite sure what reponse I should give to that :)
[20:07] <balloons> interesting . . .  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Drinking%20our%20own%20champagne
[20:07] <elfy> here you go, this is the official tool, hopefully it'll work for you - it does usually :D
[20:08] <knome> balloons, wonder what the phillw subpage(s) are for, looks like a copy of the main stuff
[20:08] <knome> maybe some drafting/sandboxing area
[20:08] <knome> but i'm off to sauna
[20:08] <balloons> knome, yes exactly
[20:08] <knome> i will be back later though :P
[20:08] <balloons> knome, ooo
[20:08] <knome> beware!
[20:08] <knome> -->
[20:08] <balloons> ohh.. man could I use a sauna
[20:08] <balloons> a proper one
[20:08] <knome> balloons, welcome to visit us... ;)
[20:08] <knome> swoosh ->
[20:08] <balloons> enjoy!
[20:14] <elfy> balloons: so how do you even use testdrive when you already have iso's - because File Open doesn't do it like the wiki says
[20:16] <balloons> file open on ?
[20:16] <elfy> and if you want to change the default caches - manual typing of patchs?
[20:16] <balloons> elfy, I'm happy to continue our conversation about what we should recommend. I'd rather focus on that, then ask too many questions about testdrive
[20:16] <balloons> if it is testdrive, then we do have to attend to those details
[20:16] <elfy> okey doke - I was just having a look at it
[20:17] <elfy> personally I would not recommend it
[20:17] <balloons> I do use it, but honestly it's simpler to justuse zsync
[20:17] <elfy> yea
[20:17] <elfy> once a cycle I change my alias's for 32 and 64 bit
[20:17] <balloons> ahh yea, the cache folders.. They are hidden and when I use it I end up trying to copy to it, etc
[20:18] <elfy> balloons: so - won't get to it tonight now, but tomorrow I'll check the state of making a bootable vivid on the lts
[20:19] <elfy> I'm not sure that recommending dd is going to be useful - if someone has just shown up and just started using linux
[20:19] <elfy> that could go horribly wrong for them
[20:20] <elfy> mkusb is only available from a PPA atm
[20:20] <elfy> unetbootin has issues - at least in utopic
[20:20] <balloons> right, hence sdc, which again is the recommended way to install ubuntu
[20:20] <balloons> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-ubuntu
[20:20] <elfy> but - that's the bug I ref'd above
[20:20] <elfy> so yea - we appear to be looking at tool
[20:21] <elfy> even though it does sometimes cause issues for people - though tbh - I stopped using it 3 or so cycles ago - seems to be more stable now
[20:22] <elfy> perhaps I'll just check how that does from trusty
[20:33] <balloons> I would rather see us offload maintaining tools like this and directions; it's not core to testing. We care about you testing the image
[20:37] <balloons> in other words, I would rather we linked to directions for creating a usb stick of ubuntu (any image of ubuntu), using tools for doing so
[20:37] <balloons> does that make sense?
[20:40] <elfy> balloons: it does make sense of course :)
[20:40] <balloons> lol, it's a change from before and I think it's the best way to go forward
[20:40] <balloons> but my mind is definitely open
[20:41] <elfy> I'm just rather ... about recommending something that I've had issues with I guess
[20:43] <elfy> just doing vivid from trusty now - then I'll see what happens
[20:43] <elfy> it's all a whole lot quicker once you've got around to using an ssd :)
[20:45]  * balloons still uses mechanical spinning things
[20:46] <elfy> data is on those
[20:46] <elfy> balloons: ok so ... the results are in
[20:47] <elfy> vivid image created on a trusty sdc - com32 error
[21:15] <alesage> veebers, you around?  I'm going to be doing the last of this autopilot test with charles in a bit, what's your preferred form of fixture?  do you want context manager?
[21:24] <veebers> alesage: a fixtures.Fixture can be used as a context manager. One mo I'll look up a good example
[21:25] <alesage> veebers, ok didn't realize, had tinkered with just making the enter and exit previously, would appreciate thx
[21:26] <veebers> alesage: in the autopilot source: tests/functional/fixtures.py (for instance ExecutableScript)
[21:26] <alesage> veebers, great thanks, will have a look
[21:26] <alesage> veebers, stay tuned for some reviews after a while ;)
[21:27] <veebers> there are ~3 fixtures in there, should be good example. Will do :-)
[21:37] <elfy> balloons: so - in conclusion I'm currently happy to recommend sdc - for use in utopic and vivid
[21:38] <elfy> dd worked ok for me too
[21:38] <balloons> elfy, awesome, glad to hear sdc works. So we should also drop testdrive and recommend zsync (or just downloading it directly by going to the site and clicking the link)
[21:38] <elfy> doesn't work in trusty :)
[21:39] <elfy> I would suggest that for people doing drive by testing just go and get the image
[21:39] <balloons> really? ;-(
[21:39] <balloons> yes, I agree.. click the link that says image and download it
[21:39] <elfy> for those doing it more often I'd suggest using zsync yep
[21:40] <elfy> s/suggest/recommend
[21:40] <elfy> yea - really - got the com32 error booting a vivid image created on trusty sdc
[21:40] <balloons> yes, since you can tell them to use zsync to update the image the downloaded previously. At that point they are already coming back for seconds :-)
[21:40] <elfy> yep
[21:40] <balloons> elfy, bug number one more time?
[21:41] <hggdh> if you do only one image, zsync is fine. If you download the whole shebang, I suggest dl-ubuntu-test-iso (from the ubuntu-qa-tools)
[21:41] <elfy> bug 1325801
[21:41] <elfy> hggdh: that means people need to install something
[21:42] <hggdh> elfy: ah. Indeed.
[21:42] <elfy> and how do I tell it to not get ubuntu but l/x/k/ubuntu or studio or myth :)
[21:42] <hggdh> well, it gets the whole thing, for a given arch and release
[21:43] <elfy> we're not just dealing with testing ubuntu - or if we are I'd best wander off :)
[21:43] <elfy> hggdh: so it would just grab me a 64 bit xubuntu image?
[21:44] <elfy> never used it - so don't know anything about it :)
[21:44]  * elfy looks at the man page ... 
[21:45] <hggdh> you can restrict more with parameters, like --only=xubuntu --arch=amd64
[21:45] <balloons> hmm
[21:45] <elfy> yea seeing that :)
[21:45] <balloons> I suppose that's a bit more advanced, but nice to know the option exists
[21:46] <balloons> elfy, awesome the bug has a patch
[21:46] <hggdh> yes, not for the casual driver-by. But if you do it continuously (like I used to), then having this in the crontab is very nice
[21:46] <balloons> ohh btw hggdh .. hello!
[21:46] <elfy> balloons: yea saw various patches all over that bug
[21:46] <hggdh> balloons: cheers, sir, long time and all that ;-)
[21:47] <balloons> I wonder how to file bugs against wiki pages, hah!
[21:47] <balloons> since we have a reasonable way forward, the wiki needs updated
[21:48] <elfy> hggdh: I might end up using that tool, but currently zsync works for me - especially with alias
[21:49] <hggdh> elfy: if it works, keep it. dl-ubuntu-test-iso ends up using zsync as well :-)
[21:50] <elfy> heh
[21:51] <elfy> I do 32l && 64l and go make a cuppa :)
[21:52] <hggdh> and I simply sync them all with dl-ubun... around 10:00 UCT
[21:53] <hggdh> hum. As of now (Precise, Trusty, Utopic, and Vivid... around 90G
[21:54] <balloons> hggdh, wow
[21:54] <balloons> not an option for me; metered bandwidth here
[21:54] <elfy> balloons: so ... dragging this back to what tool :)
[21:54] <hggdh> well, keep in mind you are zsyncing. So, apart from the current devel, there is not much to download every day
[21:55] <elfy> are you going to try and get some traction on that bug? or do we just have some sort of doc that people can reference for non-responsive images ?
[22:10] <balloons> elfy, yea I will watch the bug and push if I can
[22:10] <balloons> in the meantime, I'd like to convert the wiki to just point at sdc docs and remove our custom instructions I think
[22:10] <balloons> in addition, I will take knome's advice and gut testdrive mentions
[22:10] <elfy> ok
[22:11] <balloons> we can instead just recommend downloading, and talk about zsync somewhere else
[22:11] <balloons> so to the extent you want to edit the wiki, go for it ;-) I'll writing other docs at the moment
[22:12] <elfy> I did at one point think about doing something on the rsync page
[22:13] <elfy> wasn't me wanting to edit wiki's - I'm more interested in xubuntu specific info - but that's likely to come afterwards
[22:13] <balloons> right, it would be nice to have this for ugj.. that's my goal
[22:13] <elfy> I read the stuff knome and you were talking about - but it was just words :)
[22:14] <elfy> as far as ugj is concerned - I'm aiming for being able to help pleia2 - as they'll be doiing some Xubuntu stuff :)
[22:14] <elfy> and mostly that was about - which tool works
[22:15] <elfy> anyway - EOD for me - I'll be about tomorrow as always :)
[22:15] <elfy> goodnight
[22:16] <knome> nighty elfy!
[22:16] <elfy> cya knome :)
[22:16] <knome> yeah, i'm basically "only" interested in xubuntu too, but i can see how fixing the QA wiki helps us
[22:17] <elfy> that ^^
[22:18] <balloons> it's the source for this info, so yea, I want to make sure you et la are able to use it
[22:20] <elfy> yep - anyway - night all :)
[22:20] <balloons> night!
[22:21] <knome> balloons, do you have any idea how far the web of links spreads?
[22:21] <knome> i mean, how many pages are there under Testing/* ...
[22:21] <knome> i guess i could create an index page for them as well
[22:22] <balloons> knome, do I want to know? I know there's quite a subtree, of which we only saved some pages
[22:22] <knome> well i don't know the answer either
[22:22] <knome> but what i was just thinking in the sauna
[22:22] <knome> is that we should have a subtree that expands little by little into branches
[22:23] <knome> not too far, but also not that there is one main page, then a few subpages and a horrible mess of cross-linking
[22:23] <knome> so to say, we should have a clear path to certain type of information
[22:23] <knome> if some information is very common, then it should be closer to the main branch
[22:24] <knome> i think pages like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Bugs could be relatively easily made into one long page
[22:24] <knome> long pages are usually meh, but pages with ~5 topics and short answers are meh too
[22:24] <knome> especially if there are many of them
[22:27] <balloons> hmm.. I'm not sure I'd rather have it as one page
[22:27] <balloons> but yes, I understand spidering gets thick if you don;t
[22:27] <knome> well depends how much information there is
[22:28] <knome> and the real question is: would that information be somewhere else?
[22:28] <knome> like, what's the status/scope of the launchpad documentation?
[22:28] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Index
[22:28] <knome> not too many pages there
[22:30] <knome> gems of the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Applications
[22:31] <knome> that's also an orphan
[22:34] <knome> balloons, fwiw, you probably should subscribe to all QATeam/ and Testing/ pages (along with deletions and such) temporarily
[22:34] <knome> then you'd know what's happening
[22:35] <knome> balloons, you might want to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IdeaPool
[22:35] <balloons> knome, ty'
[22:35] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IncompleteBugs
[22:36] <knome> is that used? last edit from february 2013, looks like a candidate for deletion
[22:36] <balloons> knome, ack, I would delet
[22:36] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Kanliot - drafting/sandbox?
[22:37] <balloons> yep
[22:37] <knome> deleting
[22:37] <balloons> how do I sub to all subpages?
[22:37] <knome> just a sec
[22:38] <knome> do you want to keep pages like  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Mesa7.6 ?
[22:38] <knome> go to:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=userprefs&sub=notification
[22:38] <knome> then check all the boxes (except maybe trivial stuff)
[22:38] <knome> and in the subscribed pages, add:
[22:39] <knome> QATeam/.*
[22:39] <knome> Testing/.*
[22:40] <balloons> nice, thanks
[22:40] <knome> the Testing/.* pages have that nasty wiki header that leads people to obsolete pages
[22:40] <knome> should i overwrite it with the current QATeam header?
[22:40] <knome> or do we need some of that internal navigation there?
[22:41] <knome> we can just drop the outdated links too..
[22:41] <balloons> knome, I guess old pages like, karmic testing, hardytasks make sense to keep
[22:41] <knome> oki
[22:41] <knome> i don't touch them then
[22:41] <balloons> knome, yes I thought I redirect the /testing header to qateam header at one point already
[22:41] <knome> i don't think a redirect work if it's included
[22:42] <balloons> ahh, well then :-)
[22:42] <balloons> I'd hate to duplicate it
[22:42] <knome> i'll do it
[22:42] <knome> maybe we'll eventually get to remove all the Testing/* stuff
[22:42] <balloons> that would really be the ideal thing
[22:42] <knome> or at least limit it to the "only old stuff for archiving", so that the header could be empty
[22:42] <balloons> <-- has to run for dinner!
[22:43] <balloons> knome, if you see the old header, I would remove it at this point
[22:43] <balloons> what would happen if we deletd the old header?
[22:43] <balloons> would that do it?
[22:43] <knome> yes, but
[22:43] <knome> i wouldn't do that yet
[22:43] <balloons> an old static page would be ok
[22:43] <balloons> kk
[22:43] <knome> since we link to Testing/* pages from QATeam/*
[22:43] <balloons> right, heh
[22:43] <knome> if it was empty, there was no easy way to get back
[22:43] <knome> but once we stop linking there, we can empty the header
[22:43] <knome> and that would be it
[22:44] <balloons> gotcha
[22:44] <knome> so the new header is in place for now
[22:44] <knome> so should we drop QATeam/phillw?
[22:44] <knome> or do you want to go through the tree to see if there is something we want to save/move to the actual pages?
[22:48] <knome> balloons, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/BugSampling
[22:48] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/BugHelperPLBClass
[22:49] <knome> i guess we want to keep at least the classroom notes
[22:49] <knome> but what about the first link?
[22:52] <knome> balloons, what about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ProposedTeamStructure ?
[23:03] <alesage> veebers, elopio ready for another round https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test/+merge/247079
[23:03] <elopio> alesage: ack.
[23:04] <veebers> alesage: ack, just having something to eat, will hitit after that
[23:04] <elopio> alesage: can you review the one for indicator-display?
[23:05] <elopio> veebers: thomi: alesage: why are we putting the custom proxy object in a module named helpers, intead of putting them in the module named indicators?
[23:05]  * alesage waits for agreement among veebers, thomi, elopio
[23:09] <veebers> alesage, elopio: sounds good to me. I would imagine the apps have a similar layout for precedent?
[23:09] <elopio> veebers: it's a mess with apps. But that's what I am aiming for. We will have the browser CPO in webbrowser.WebbrowserApp
[23:10] <elopio> instead of webbrowser.helpers.WebbrowserApp
[23:10] <veebers> ack, for the CPO no need to have it in helpers
[23:10] <alesage> sounds decided, I'll make that change veebers, elopio
[23:11] <elopio> veebers: after you eat, please also take a look at the one with paul, so we agree on a style for these things.
[23:35] <elopio> alesage: charles: I left my comments on the MP.
[23:53] <veebers> elopio: sure thing, this is the one right? https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical/unity8/pair_with_paul/+merge/246330
[23:53] <elopio> veebers: that one.
[23:55] <veebers> elopio: surely the unity8 tests are python3 only
[23:57] <elopio> veebers: no, they are currently py2 and py3.
[23:57] <veebers> elopio: why is that? the devices are py3 only
[23:57] <elopio> I think we should drop the py2 code. But until we do that, I suppose we need to keep the py2 compatibility.
[23:57] <veebers> I was certain that they should be py3 only already
[23:58] <elopio> veebers: I don't know. We were missing some of the test suites ports to py3, so we kept the compatibility on unity and the toolkit.
[23:58] <elopio> then nobody removed the py2 compatibility from those projects.
[23:58] <veebers> elopio: This needs to be confirmed. At this stage there is no py2 on the devices so it would seem odd to need py2 support too
[23:59] <knome> balloons, still there?
[23:59] <knome> i guess not...