[07:25] <dholbach> good morning
=== czajkows1i is now known as czajkowski
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
[12:39] <dholbach> brb, relocating to the office
[15:09] <dholbach> popey, dpm: are you going to take care of the Q&A today?
[15:10] <dpm> dholbach, sure
[15:10] <dholbach> cool, in that case I can safely go back to more html5 goodness :)
[15:10] <dpm> popey, do you want to announce on the +Ubuntu account and I do FB? Or the other way around, I don't mind
[15:11] <popey> am on a hangout ...
[15:21] <dpm> ok, done
[15:52] <dpm> popey, all set for the team Q&A?
[15:53] <dpm> popey, can you start spreading the word?
[15:57] <popey> yo.
[15:57] <popey> Hm, I dont have access to the FB account.. :(
[15:59] <dpm> np, I'll do it and add you
[15:59] <popey> ta
[15:59] <popey> have never had access
[15:59] <popey> can you invite me to the hangout too :)
[16:01] <dpm> yeah, once I can figure out how I lost the hangout...
[16:01] <popey> haha
[16:41] <knome> how's the wiki.ubuntu.com CSS maintained?
[16:44] <jose> probably a LP branch
[16:45] <jose> it's IS hosted
[16:53] <knome> i'd love to know the branch name :)
[16:54] <knome> i'd really love to push some of my personal modifications to production as well as write some additional styles
[16:55] <knome> like allowing tables to have certain styles based on the table class instead of having to add a huge amount of markup to each table cell to make them look not stupid :)
[16:56] <jose> hmm probably #canonical-sysadmin is a good place to ask if there's someone on vanguard
[16:57] <knome> actually i'm pretty sure it's not managed in a way that allows merge requests to be done easily... and hoping that mhall119 (or anybody) looked at my message and picked up the task to work on that like planet.ubuntu.com ;)
[16:58] <knome> done the first MP's for the planet CSS, hungry for more sensible fixed
[16:58] <knome> or tbe, insanity-avoiding ones :P
[17:18] <czajkowski> knome: #canonical-sysadmin best place to start
[17:18] <czajkowski> and vanguard on duty
[17:18] <czajkowski> :)
[17:19] <knome> the vanguards won't deal with questions/additions for CSS files... they'll tell to file an IS ticket, and then it'll rot in the queue for a few years, and then it'll be unassigned
[17:20] <knome> this will need action/attention from a canonical employed community person
[17:20] <knome> that said, i'm happy that we're where we are with the planet CSS currently
[17:20] <knome> just hoping the same direction for other community-facing sites
[17:24] <pleia2> it's still easier if you have a ticket number mhall119 or someone can chase down with IS :)
[17:24]  * elfy has a list of those :(
[17:25] <pleia2> I know it's annoying, but ticket queues are how they manage their workload, important to use the system
[17:27] <czajkowski> nods
[17:27] <czajkowski> without some sort of reference number it makes following up hard
[17:27] <czajkowski> for all involved
[17:27]  * knome breathes out heavily
[17:27] <knome> i guess i don't mind that the wiki looks bad then
[17:28] <pleia2> figuring out where this branch is/whether it's public can go on popey's list!
[17:28] <popey> +1
[17:28] <knome> i don't mind filing IS tickets, but i don't feel like doing that if the response is what i've seen so far
[17:28] <knome> thanks popey
[17:29] <czajkowski> knome: what do you mean ?
[17:30] <pleia2> I think their queue is quite long right now, tricky things are staying in it for a while (I have a few out there too)
[17:30] <elfy> I've got stuff in the queue from the beginning of last year and things in it from 2013
[17:31] <pleia2> I have one that's quite old, cruft from the launchpad to Ubuntu SSO transition that's still making it near impossible for new contributors to figure out how to log on to help.ubuntu.com/community themselves
[17:31] <pleia2> so I know it's terribly frustrating
[17:33] <elfy> most of the frustration from me comes from being ignored - even a - we'll look at this in the next 6 months is better than being ignored
[17:33] <pleia2> fair enough, I usually do get at least a response (though the one I just mentioned hasn't gotten response in a while)
[17:34] <popey> if they closed the gates now, and didnt allow any more tickets, I think they have enough tickets in the queue for 10 years or so
[17:34] <czajkowski> elfy: it is very hard, small team manging multile RTs covering wiki website servers in house and community stuff
[17:34] <elfy> popey: I don't doubt it - and I'm certainly not blaming them - when we do really really need them - they're exceptionally helpful
[17:34] <czajkowski> not an easy task and I also can see it frustrating people to not file a RT also
[17:34] <elfy> czajkowski: yea - I know :)
[17:35] <elfy> I'm just saying what it's like for people
[17:35] <czajkowski> nods
[17:35] <czajkowski> I agree
[17:35] <czajkowski> but also know how small the team is that deals with the RT
[17:35] <czajkowski> :(
[17:35] <knome> czajkowski, what i mean is that i've had many discussions with the IS team since 2008, provided patches and promised that things will move forward "sooner than later"
[17:36] <knome> czajkowski, and a lot of that never happened...
[17:36] <czajkowski> nods I kn ow
[17:36] <elfy> czajkowski: I'm not sure what it was like previously with IS and the FC - but after the upgrade, and close contact with 3 or 4 of them during that time, we've got a good working relationship for the most part
[17:36] <czajkowski> as sometimes things get super seeded
[17:36] <elfy> anyway ...
[17:37] <pleia2> mmm super seeds
[17:38] <czajkowski> superseded even
[17:38] <czajkowski> <--- lack of sleep
[17:38] <elfy> or lack of super seeds
[17:40] <elfy> some super seeds for czajkowski http://bit.ly/15JzHVj
[17:40] <jcastro> it should be noted that the IS team has had the same # of people since about ... 2008, while the rest of the project and Canonical continue to grow much faster
[17:41] <knome> jcastro, that's understandable, but that doesn't make any of the community contributors feel better about their contributions going basically to /dev/null
[17:41] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/887675
[17:41] <knome> here's an example
[17:41] <knome>  Anthony Dillon (ya-bo-ng) wrote on 2011-11-09:
[17:41] <knome> I have updated the wiki stylesheet with a fix for this and escalated it to IS to be deployed.
[17:41] <knome>  Anthony Dillon (ya-bo-ng) on 2015-01-15
[17:41] <knome> assignee: Anthony Dillon (ya-bo-ng) → nobody
[17:42] <knome> and the fix is still not deployed
[17:42] <czajkowski> elfy: evil
[17:42] <jcastro> oh, the webteam isn't IS, not that that's an excuse
[17:42] <czajkowski> nods
[17:42] <elfy> czajkowski: :)
[17:43] <knome> jcastro, exactly. furthermore, if they told me to "do/contact X to get it deployed" in 2011, and that would have gotten it deployed, i wouldn't have cared about the extra work that i had to do
[17:44] <knome> jcastro, community volunteers willing to put time and effort into getting something fixed is not the problem
[17:44] <jcastro> I sympathize, getting fixes in can be frustrating
[17:44] <knome> jcastro, s/can be frustrating/is impossible/  from my point of view
[17:44] <knome> which is why i've stopped contributing and caring.
[17:44] <jcastro> you can try pinging robbie if you'd like
[17:44] <knome> who's loss is this?
[17:44] <jcastro> maybe he can help?
[17:45] <knome> tbh, after 4 years...
[17:45] <knome> don't point me to another person that is "maybe" able to help
[17:45] <czajkowski> knome: ok we are trying to hepl
[17:45] <czajkowski> *help
[17:45] <jcastro> well he kind of runs everything, if there's one guy who can help you
[17:45] <czajkowski> and we all know the frustrations
[17:46] <knome> 4 years isn't frustration. it is "we don't care enough"
[17:46] <knome> but i shall go away until more of this grumpyness comes out.
[17:47] <knome> uummm, s/until/before/
[17:47] <knome> have a nice day
[18:30] <dholbach> dinner time - see you tomorrow!
=== JoseeAntonioR is now known as jose