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paulliualesage: hi. about lp:~indicator-applet-developers/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test. Can you do a merge trunk?15:13
paulliualesage: I messed up my branches for the Notifications helpers.15:14
alesagepaulliu, ok can get to in a bit, need coffee :)15:32
alesagepaulliu, working on this merge15:57
paulliualesage: ok. Thanks. And I'll rebase my stuff on your branch.16:05
alesagepaulliu, this was a bit of a mess :) , pushed that--note that if you don't want your test to run on desktop you'll have to re-add that check to your class16:21
paulliualesage: ok.16:24
alesagepaulliu, everything ok?16:27
=== roadmr is now known as roadmr_afk
alesageelopio, ok to move these cards to *done* if two approves, n'est-ce pas?16:36
elopioalesage: yes, just please make sure that before moving them to done, all the useful information is copied to the test card in the backlog.16:55
alesageelopio, aha good point, will do16:56
elopiothanks ale16:59
* knome serves elopio an ale16:59
elopioan ale sage. I'm not worth it.17:02
=== roadmr_afk is now known as roadmr
alesageelopio, I'm wondering now if "opio" means something?17:12
elopioalesage: it means opium.17:13
alesageour team should have the best parties17:16
elopioit does. They have karaoke.17:17
knomei haven't heard any ales that are flavored with sage17:17
balloonsdo you karaoke knome >/17:17
knomesorry :P17:17
alesageneither have I now that you mention, maybe I'll try brewing one knome17:17
knomebut i'll drink the ales for you...17:17
knomeespecially if you karaoke (:17:18
* elfy notices the ping for ale ... 17:18
balloonslol.. it's teatime for me (already had a cup), but I suppose it's happy hour for you two17:26
elfyI'll drink to your health17:27
elfyballoons: you seeing this ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2262798&p=13216826&viewfull=1#post1321682618:09
elfyI did last night when I booted it to check something else18:09
balloonselfy, I haven't but I was wanting to try an image this week. I'll keep it in mind when I try18:13
knomeif you both didn't notice, i updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Contact today18:14
knomeand the header too18:14
knomesome slight visual changes18:14
balloonsOhh home -> quality18:14
balloonsknome, a big thank you.. if you lived any closer I'd send you some baked goodies. I'm afraid they won't be very tasty by the time they would get to you from here :-(18:15
knomethat's fine18:15
balloonsI love the visuals.. good design is very nice :-)18:15
elfyknome: I did actually and I did a tiny little change to it actually :)18:15
knomei just noticed18:16
elfyI'll be looking at the manual testing pages again at the end of the week - try and get them all done and dusted18:16
* balloons notes every main page fits in one screen.. no scrolling18:18
knomeballoons, you have time for some hacking on the wiki?18:20
dobeyballoons: ^^ any idea why i would be seeing the error on line 18 with the command being used there?18:34
balloonsknome, sure18:34
knomeballoons, i think the following pages can be deleted18:35
knomehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting seems to have a lot of good stuff, maybe it should be the default target for autotesting related stuff, instead of the wonky https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/18:37
knomewould propose to move/redirect that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Automatic to keep consistent with the structure18:37
balloonsdobey, looking18:39
knomealso unsure about the use for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview; it seems to duplicate content in various places... like yet another "FAQ" page18:39
knomeespecially, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Bugs18:39
balloonsthe overview is a bit of faq18:40
balloonsworthy of cleanup or removal18:40
knomeit's too early to say if we need a separate FAQ page18:41
balloonsbugs might be more useful.. I wonder if it's referenced anywhere18:41
knomeballoons, apparently not18:41
* balloons is nostalgic at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ProposedTeamStructure18:42
balloonsI'm deleting the pages referenced18:43
knomewhat do you think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Glossary18:46
knomedo we really need a glossary that's so comprehensive?18:46
knome" black box testing: Testing, either functional or non-functional, of a component or system without reference to its internal structure. "18:47
knomethat doesn't help me understand what black box testing is18:47
knomenor have i ever seen that term used in ubuntu quality18:47
balloonsheh, that's pretty comphrensive. Ideally we wouldn't need it, but we do use QA specific terms18:48
knomewouldn't it be more useful to list only those terms that are actually used and try to link them with reality?18:48
balloonsI'm not sure a gloassary is helpful or not in dealing with that issue however18:48
knomewhat about just linking to the source doc18:48
knome" exploratory testing: An informal test design technique where the tester actively controls the design of the tests as those tests are performed and uses information gained while testing to design new and better tests. "18:49
balloonsindeed, it's linked18:49
knomethis is like... very technical/lawyer text18:49
knomeit's useless for a regular person18:49
balloonsI imagine most definitions will also go beyond people18:49
balloonsyes, defining the word with more qa terms helps nothing18:49
knomei would define ET as "testing where the tester tests the application(s) by working on their daily tasks"18:50
knomeor sth...18:50
knomeok, i'll move the link to the source doc to FAQ, and redirect the glossary page there18:50
balloonsdobey, so your log is interesting to say the least. Does using something besides qemu change things? does it work?18:50
balloonssounds excellent18:50
dobeyballoons: i have no idea. i suspect not though18:52
dobeyballoons: does jenkins use something besides qemu?18:53
balloonsdobey, I can't say what jenkins uses, but you obviously can review the logs of the app in question to see the commands it's using18:55
knomeballoons, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RequiredManualTests - is this at all up-to-date?18:56
dobeyballoons: are any click packages having their autopilot tests run under adt-run in jenkins at the moment?18:57
balloonsdobey, reminders should be19:02
balloonsit's possible however they backed that out and used phablet-test-run anyway19:02
balloonsbest to talk to CI; plars and fginther19:03
balloonset la19:03
balloonsknome, ahh, we should revamp that.. it's in the launchpad project now, tagged bugs19:03
balloonsI'd delete the page and link there instead19:04
knomeballoons, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?field.tag=todo ?19:05
balloonsknome, exactly19:06
balloonsdobey, have you ever spoken to pitti about your difficulties?19:06
knomeballoons, redirecting there now from the page19:07
dobeyballoons: since he's in .de he's always already gone when i run into the problems. i was hoping knowledge about autopkgtest/autopilot was more spread out than just him19:08
balloonsdobey, well heh, I've not been messing around with it recently but it always worked for me; I'm sure it still does. I did not mess about with qemu however, and only rarely the emulator. I was primarily interested in running on the device19:09
dobeyi should probably write a lengthy e-mail complaining about the difficulty of having them, but meh, i don't want to build a bike shed19:10
balloonsdobey, I mention pitti because you are hitting issues in pieces I'm not familar with, so it's hard for me to call it a bug or misunderstanding. Either way, you have discovered some "issues" along the way19:10
dobeyballoons: well, qemu is how the jenkins jobs for the ubuntu packages run autopkgtests, so i was going with that, because most of the stuff i work on would have to fit in that infrastructure19:11
knomeballoons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/qawiki_diagram.svg19:14
knomeballoons, that's still WIP and not complete, but i think it gives a great overview to pages that are "close" to the main branch in the QA team wiki19:14
knomeballoons, the links mentioned here should be the #1 links to improve19:14
balloonsahh brillant19:14
balloonsso I can trim down certain pages / combine them easily19:15
knomewell at least you know which pages people will hit more often19:15
knomeballoons, just updated the svg with some color...19:18
knomethe green pages should be pretty much fine now19:18
knomethe yellow pages are WIP19:18
balloonsso what did you want to do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting? that page is interesting, although out of date19:20
knomei think that's a good base for the new automated testing stuff19:20
knomei would move it to QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Automatic once it's fleshed out19:20
knomei mean it's million times better than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ already...19:21
knomeand re: the diagram, i guess our goal is to get rid of all Testing/* pages too19:22
knomeat least as links...19:22
knomeso maybe that's another thing to consider :)19:22
balloonsknome, I don't think anything is useful on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting19:25
balloonsafter reviewing it19:25
knomethen i'll redirect it19:25
balloonsknome, let's fix https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ then19:25
knomethere are some subpages for that19:26
knomelet me dig them up for you19:26
knomeso i guess "Autopilot" it is only...19:27
balloonsso we can ignore the manual stuff; elfy has good direction on tweaking that19:27
knomewell except19:27
knomewe'd like the tool in the repository19:27
knomeso we didn't need to manage that in the wiki19:27
balloonsyes, i assume he'll take care of that too19:27
knomeprobably not (:19:28
balloonsone interesting thing / idea with contributing is that the tutorials are very similar19:28
knomealso of potential interest: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Index19:28
balloonsfor automated and manual even19:28
balloonsI wonder if we could clean up our contributing testcases by making a nice generic tutorial / walkthrough somehow, but still giving specifics for the different options19:29
knomeballoons, yeah... concerning the launchpad stuff19:29
balloonsahh you moved it :-)19:29
knomethe work itself is very different19:29
balloonsand consolidated, heh19:29
balloonsthe basic idea is the same; I remember not finding any good info ANYWHERE for using launchpad / bzr to contribute a merge proposal to a random project on launchpad19:30
balloonsit's 99% the same for all of them19:30
knomeso we should write/gather a tutorial for that19:30
balloonsso the fact we have that and cover it is kind of insane really19:30
knomei guess... https://dev.launchpad.net/UsingMergeProposals19:30
knomebasically things you need to know are:19:31
knome1) how to pull a branch19:31
knome2) how to push a branch to a location that is valid for a merge proposal against the parent repository19:32
knome3) how to do the actual merge proposal19:32
knome1 and 3 are easy, 2 should be easy but will require explanation anyway..19:32
balloonsprecursor's to 1) include making an lp account, getting bzr installed on your machine, and getting bzr and lp setup on your machine19:33
balloonspeople get stuck before they even attempt pulling a branch19:33
balloonsohh and the ssh key thing, righto19:33
balloonsso setting up your lp account :-)19:34
balloonsyes, staring at the page. You took many subpages and consolidated them19:34
knomekind of19:34
knomeand made it easier to look at19:34
knomeso DevelopmentToolsUsage next? :P19:34
balloonsso yea.. it's read and do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentToolsSetup19:34
balloonsthen you can contribute to any project by doing 1-3 above19:34
balloonsso I just wonder how we could compress https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual/Writing to assume the above19:36
knomei'll start the *Usage page19:36
balloonsand is that "ok" / smart to do?19:36
knomewhat? :)19:36
balloonsas I said the steps are all the same, the setup is the same. The details of what you do before proposing a merge proposal are the only things different between contributing19:37
balloonsso we have several guides to contributing that cover the same things over and over19:37
knomei'll create that one common page19:37
knomeso you can just link to that19:37
knomeor tbe, first link to the setup page19:37
knomethen the usage page19:37
knomethen you can expect the user has everything set up19:38
knomeand you don't need to worry about that side19:38
knomeballoons, start: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentToolsUsage19:43
balloonsknome, I feel that that is a good idea.. I take it you agree :-)19:45
balloonsshould help elfy out too19:45
balloonsbuonasera Letozaf_19:45
balloonscome stai?19:45
* elfy will look later and see if it is actually simple or just simple from the point of view of you 2 ;)19:46
Letozaf_buonasera balloons  sto bene e tu ?19:46
balloonsMolto buona :-) grazie19:49
knomeballoons, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentToolsUsage updated19:49
knomeballoons, just MP process left19:49
balloonsknome, perhaps covering assigning bugs to you / merge proposals as well19:50
knomeballoons, i'll do at least the MP process next19:50
balloonsLetozaf_, so is shorts app still giving you issues?19:52
knomeballoons, maybe you'll want to push a very general branch for ubuntu-manual-tests19:52
knomeballoons, i'll use https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-manual-tests/timeanddate as the example for now, but would probably be better to have a branch that is clearly used for illustration purposes (and to demonstrate a diff too!)19:53
Letozaf_balloons, yeah, I am trying to recreate the issue on my desktop, but test always passes on my desktop, looking at the video of the failure on Jenkings makes me think of a timing issue19:54
balloonsknome, ohh like a complete example mp, diff, branch?19:55
knomeactually, hold19:55
Letozaf_balloons, if I run autopilot3-sandbox-run -X -s 400x600x24  shorts_app.tests.test_rssreader.TestMainWindow.test_edit_topic shorts does not adapt to the 400x600 screen and it is cut off19:55
knomelet's see if i can do this without referring to any existing branches19:55
balloonsLetozaf_, ahh yes, you'll need a window manager19:57
balloonsand, heh, my AP branch to land so the default autopilot sandbox has it19:57
Letozaf_balloons, oh, that's why :)19:58
Letozaf_balloons, thanks :)20:01
knomeballoons, MPs covered at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentToolsUsage20:05
balloonsknome, you can use links for some of this.. ~ expands to there username, so code.launchpad.net/~ has there new branch on it20:06
knome*their :P20:08
knomebut no, we can't really use links... because we don't know the branch name :P20:08
dobeyyou can link to just https://code.launchpad.net/~/ though20:08
knomeand tbh, i usually rather use ~username than ~ to avoid confusion20:08
knomebut we could add a note that they can also use that ^20:08
knomeat least we have that tutorial in place now :)20:09
knomeelfy, feel free to murmur at me if the page is hard to understand :P20:09
dobeywell, i would do it as <a href="https://code.launchpad.net/~/">Your branches on Launchpad</a> or whatever, and avoid using usernames in things20:09
dobeyor if you really want to use actual usernames, you can maybe do some funky JS with the launchpad API20:10
knomewith the wiki... no js :P20:10
elfyknome: when I get to look properly I'll change things if they're not as simple as they could be ;)20:11
balloonsyes, I think I did it by making the text say code.launchpad.net/~yourusername, and made it clickable is all20:11
knomeballoons, dobey: happy now?20:12
knomeelfy, ;)20:13
knomeelfy, or you can murmur to me...20:13
* dobey is never happy20:13
elfyknome: depends ...20:14
knomeballoons, tbh, i think this is very low-level documentation... meaning that even other teams can use this as a documentation20:14
elfymostly on how ridiculously voodooy the wiki is20:14
knomeelfy, why not? you afraid of me biting you? :P20:14
balloonsknome, :-) I offered only a suggestion. And yes, I agree it is very generic stuff20:14
knomeneed to fetch stuff for wife from the grocery store now20:15
elfyknome: not at all - you might want to be afraid of me biting you if you've made the page too difficult for members of the community to edit :D20:15
knomeelfy, the page is just as easily editable as any other page20:17
elfygo shopping :D20:17
knomewhether the edits are good is a different thing20:17
elfyknome: yea ...20:17
elfyI've seen how easy the other pages are :|20:17
knomeno, that doesn't use that complicated markup20:17
elfyoh ok :)20:17
knomejust those note boxes, which are relatively easy to understand20:18
knomethat kind of stuff clearly isn't suitable for pages that aren't very static20:18
knomeand the grumpy stuff you probably catched earlier on the wiki CSS is partly related to this... if we had access to easily do MP's for the CSS, we could drop most of the weirdo markup to begin with20:19
knomeeven from the main pages!!20:19
Letozaf_balloons, do not know if to be happy or not, but even with ap-sandbox shorts_app.tests.test_rssreader.TestMainWindow.test_edit_topic  the test passes on my desktop   :O20:21
elfyballoons: are we going to push the format script to the branch as it is?20:27
knomeelfy, i can take care of that20:31
knomei guess we want to include some kind of README20:31
elfythat said - there's no rush for it - so I might like to get my head around that20:32
knomeworks for me20:32
=== JoseeAntonioR is now known as jose
elfymight work for me too - who knows :)20:32
balloonsknome, elfy ok, I'll let you guys handle it20:35
knomeballoons, updated testwriter and developer role pages20:36
balloonsLetozaf_, ohh excellent. so if it all passes in the sandbox, it should pass in jenkins20:37
balloonsdid you update it? it didn't pass for me20:37
balloonsyou should run it a few times as well of course to be sure20:37
Letozaf_balloons, I ran it without changes, that's the problem :P20:38
Letozaf_balloons, and yes I ran it more times, so I am a bit puzzled20:38
balloonsLetozaf_, well notice on the mp.. sometimes it passes, sometimes it doesn't20:38
balloonsLetozaf_, ohh..20:38
balloonsit failed the first time for me20:38
Letozaf_balloons, I am trying to figure out why it's failing20:38
balloonsis it running in the small screen now?20:38
Letozaf_balloons, even if I cannot reproduce the issue on my desktop20:38
balloonsand I assume it is better than before.. it's passing a lot more often20:38
Letozaf_balloons, yes it's running in the small screen now20:39
Letozaf_balloons, but even if it fails only one time I assume it's not ok20:39
balloonsLetozaf_, right, but improvement is improvement. So if you get stuck, I'll take the mp as improvement20:40
Letozaf_balloons, I will try a bit more and see what happens20:40
balloonsLetozaf_, ok, I'll keep watching the mp20:41
knomeelfy, are the two sober guys better at the header than the stoned one? :)20:42
knomeor maybe those look stoned with nastier drugs :P20:43
knomenot just alcohol20:43
* elfy goes to look 20:43
elfyI guess so  ...20:44
elfyit's one of those visual things - looks like a stylised piston on a conrod to me :)20:45
* knome shrugs20:45
knomei am not huge on the ubuntu pictograms either20:45
knomelet's use them for now20:45
elfyyep :)20:46
elfythe Contact icon in the header - piston on a conrod :)20:46
dobeythat is a weird image20:46
dobeyit's a hungry sloth20:46
knomeoh heh.20:46
dobeyor a platypus rather20:47
elfyha ha20:47
knomeballoons, what do you want to do with the qa subteams....20:47
elfynot seeing anything other than a piston now :(20:47
dobeydoesn't look like a piston to me20:47
* knome pokes elfy in the eye20:47
knomedid that help?20:47
dobeybut does totally look like a platypus20:47
dobeyi've been looking at too many pistons and connecting rods lately for that to look like a piston to me :)20:48
knomeballoons, wondering that they might be better at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams20:48
elfyha ha ha20:48
knomeballoons, then link there...20:48
alesageveebers, I'm considering taking a reviews-break, want to pass along some helpful instructions :) , if you're second positive reviewer copy into mother-card; if rejecting push back to doing; forgive me if this is repetition :)20:50
balloonsknome, the subteams are a bit weird to me20:51
knomeoki, will look at doing that20:52
knomemm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams already has qa20:52
knomeso just expand that20:52
knomei guess20:52
veebersalesage: no worries. Please expand on "copy to mother card"20:52
alesageveebers, you'll find the mother card in "the big board" by number20:53
veebersalesage: ah right, so the results from the research cards goes into the 'write test' card20:54
alesageveebers, right right20:54
elfyknome: subteams page?20:54
veeberswhich isn't really the mother card (that would be the one that spawned the 1.2 million sub cards20:54
veebers(*note might not actually be that many cards)20:54
knomeelfy, yes, moving the subteams to Teams20:55
elfyyea ... I got that - but is there a page with subteams on it? and what subteams? no idea there were any lol20:56
knomewas in Contacts, i just snatched them :P20:56
knomeactually, i'm not so sure of that20:57
knomei mean, moving them to the Teams page20:58
knomebut i'm not so sure that they should be on the QA contacts page either20:58
knomemaybe just a *simple* listing20:58
knomenot a table form..20:58
alesageveebers, (* please consult with a physician before looking at this kanban board)20:59
veebersalesage: ^_^ (* your caffeine levels must be *this* high to enter this board)20:59
elfyknome: oic ... ofc I know them lol - I think that's a mistake moving them from there21:01
knomethough seriously, all teams except lubuntu have it coordinated through the main developer channels21:01
knomei'll try to formulate something sensible21:03
elfyI definitely think the qateam/contact page should have the list at the bottom still21:05
knomethen i'll get it back... and refresh it :P21:06
alesageveebers, elopio it's true that we need the oxide webdriver to introspect a webapp riiight?  asking because I'm working on a similar card atm21:07
veebersalesage: not sure sorry, never introspected a webapp21:08
veeberselopio: fyi I assigned you to card "SANITY-031" as I requested more info from JB. Not sure if that's the best way to do so21:09
knomeelfy, maybe easier on the eyes now :)21:25
elopioveebers: yes, that's ok.21:46
elopioalesage: yes, webdriver is needed. There are some things possible from qml, but it's not nice.21:46
veeberselopio: can you re-link me that moztrap link you sent me earlier but I can't remember to find it? :_)21:53
elopioveebers: ?21:54
veeberselopio: much appreciated thanks. Sorry for all the link asks21:54
veeberselopio: how did you tease that url out of moztrap? From what I see it likes to keep it's cards close to its chest21:55
elopioAfter you filtered, there is a link icon that shows you what i pasted.21:56
elopioIt was hard to notice for me that it was a link icon.21:57
veeberselopio: ugh, I feel stupid now :-\ But instead I'll blame the application21:58
elopio:) i like the app. It just needs somebody to give it a little love.21:59
veeberselopio: I have 2 issues with it 1. the searching isn't fuzzy enough, 2. the url thing (makes it hard to link for other people etc.). Other than that it looks good (I don't really need to use it though)22:02
alesageelopio, I've started marking as "blocked" the stuff that needs attention, like in-limbo, not quite in-review22:02
elopioveebers: agree. I'd love to have time to fix it, and integrate it with our automated test results. But well, too late. That will be practitest, which I hope never to use.22:05
elopioalesage: that's good. Thanks.22:06

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