| === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash | ||
| astraljava | They're all same-same, but different. But still the same! | 07:32 |
|---|---|---|
| elfy | apart from when different-different - maybe the same different then :p | 07:33 |
| astraljava | Haha! :D | 07:34 |
| knome | elfy, so maybe you noticed my comment on -offtopic or not... | 08:25 |
| knome | elfy, anyway, looks like unattended upgrades *aren't* on by default | 08:26 |
| knome | elfy, the enabling bit is in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic | 08:26 |
| elfy | I didn't - but I've not been taking too much notice of this discussion anyway tbh | 08:29 |
| knome | yep | 08:29 |
| elfy | I don't like unattended upgrades | 08:30 |
| knome | but they're secure.. | 08:30 |
| elfy | that means I've got total trust in someone else :p | 08:30 |
| knome | i don't like them either | 08:30 |
| jhenke_ | hi folks! | 09:39 |
| knome | hello | 09:39 |
| Frostsongr | yo | 09:39 |
| jhenke_ | elfy the link to the pad you send around via ML is not accessible | 09:39 |
| === jhenke_ is now known as jhenke | ||
| jhenke | user type poll | 09:39 |
| knome | which one? | 09:39 |
| jhenke | access denied | 09:39 |
| knome | jhenke, you need to be in the ubuntu-etherpad team | 09:40 |
| jhenke | is that an open team? | 09:40 |
| knome | it's moderated, but practically everybody is approved when they ask for approval | 09:41 |
| jhenke | okay, good to know, I applied now, the error message though is not really helpful to find that out... | 09:42 |
| jhenke | thanks knome | 09:42 |
| knome | i guess not :) | 09:42 |
| knome | np | 09:42 |
| slickymasterWork | elfy, pleia2, added some possible/eventual additions for both your consideration at the bottom of http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as | 10:06 |
| jhenke | by the way, where would you like to have the answer to that pad? in that pad below? | 10:20 |
| knome | jhenke, we're not running the survey, we're building it | 10:24 |
| knome | jhenke, if you want to participate in the survey, wait for some time longer so we get it out | 10:24 |
| jhenke | knome ahh okay, then I misunderstood the mail | 10:25 |
| jhenke | sorry | 10:25 |
| knome | no problem | 10:25 |
| knome | bluesabre, ok, fair enough, just wondering where we are with that (re: mugshot discussion at -ot) | 11:16 |
| bluesabre | so far, basically nowhere (but will be fixed soon) | 11:18 |
| Unit193 | ™ | 11:31 |
| knome | :P | 11:31 |
| bluesabre | brainwash: xubuntu-default-settings 14.10.12 pushed... waiting for approval/release into -proposed | 11:37 |
| bluesabre | the imgur support is niiiice | 12:15 |
| bluesabre | firefox 36 being unable to open links is duuuumb :P | 12:16 |
| bluesabre | it's hard to be productive in the morning :( | 12:16 |
| Unit193 | Imgur won't help there.. | 12:19 |
| brainwash | bluesabre: that's great. hopefully it will be accepted without the need to ping someone :) | 12:23 |
| bluesabre | heh | 12:24 |
| bluesabre | I'll start the pinging when I get home tonight | 12:24 |
| brainwash | bluesabre: ah, don't forget about my xfce4-settings patch for the mime editor | 12:28 |
| bluesabre | oh right | 12:33 |
| bluesabre | can you link that again? | 12:33 |
| brainwash | bug 1391184 | 12:34 |
| ubottu | bug 1391184 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "MIME type change incorrectly shows as Default" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391184 | 12:34 |
| brainwash | applying the patch upstream is the important part, not sure if you need to package it | 12:36 |
| brainwash | there are plans to release xfce4-settings 4.11.4 somewhat soon, or? | 12:38 |
| bluesabre | I'd need to see what has landed since the last release, and what open bugs there are. I can plan to do a new release soon though | 12:50 |
| bluesabre | oh | 12:55 |
| bluesabre | https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&list_id=20846&product=Xfce4-settings&query_format=advanced&resolution=--- | 12:55 |
| bluesabre | :'( | 12:55 |
| bluesabre | probably a lot of cleanup needed there | 12:55 |
| bluesabre | will work on that this weekend | 12:55 |
| bluesabre | anyhoo, time for work, bbl | 12:56 |
| knome | elfy, ping me when you're around (cue: wiki css) | 12:59 |
| elfy | knome: ok | 13:06 |
| elfy | that's not a ping though - just wandered home for a cuppa ... | 13:07 |
| knome | heh :) | 13:07 |
| elfy | slickymasterWork: thanks - had a quick look, made a quick comment | 13:28 |
| elfy | pleia2: assuming that com32 error doesn't get sorted by next week, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-usb | 13:28 |
| slickymasterWork | ok elfy, got it | 14:23 |
| ochosi | humm humm, i guess my remote login went down while i was away, so if any of you said something to me during the last few days, you might have to repeat it... | 15:04 |
| slickymasterWork | lol ochosi, feeling like Calimero ;) | 15:05 |
| ochosi | slickymasterWork: you mean you're wearing a white egg-shell? | 15:08 |
| elfy | ochosi: welcome back :) | 15:08 |
| elfy | luckily all I said is best not read or repeated :p | 15:09 |
| elfy | knome: I can now back back | 15:09 |
| ochosi | elfy: thanks :) | 15:10 |
| slickymasterWork | hehe | 15:13 |
| knome | ochosi, here neither | 15:17 |
| slickymasterWork | elfy, regarding your comments on http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as, please feel free to just use my suggestions if you and pleia2 think they fit the survey purpose | 15:17 |
| knome | 19:41 brainwash: ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver is broken in vivid | 15:17 |
| ochosi | oh, that doesn't sound good | 15:17 |
| ochosi | what's broken exactly? | 15:18 |
| ochosi | brainwash: ^ | 15:18 |
| elfy | slickymasterWork: understand that :) | 15:19 |
| slickymasterWork | :) | 15:19 |
| knome | 19:41 brainwash: ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver is broken in vivid | 15:22 |
| knome | 19:41 brainwash: not my part, but the DE detection | 15:22 |
| knome | 19:47 brainwash: somehow caused by dropping the obsolete upstream patch | 15:22 |
| knome | ochosi, ^ context for you sir | 15:22 |
| ochosi | ah context. thanks | 15:23 |
| knome | elfy, not on my desktop so can't show you what i wanted, but i'll keep pinging you | 15:23 |
| ochosi | hmm, lengthy games discussion | 15:23 |
| knome | yes... | 15:24 |
| knome | very | 15:24 |
| elfy | knome: ok | 15:24 |
| ochosi | do we have some writeup of how costly shipping the games actually is? | 15:24 |
| knome | comments include "add steam with a few gqmes" | 15:24 |
| elfy | ochosi: yea - which so good imo | 15:24 |
| slickymasterWork | it's our best seller so far, the games thread | 15:24 |
| knome | i think it isn't too costly, but there's the testing burden and stuff | 15:24 |
| knome | and do people really play those games? | 15:24 |
| elfy | we don't test them knome | 15:25 |
| ochosi | well, that is really difficult/impossible to assess | 15:25 |
| knome | isn't it a bit 90ish to play minesweeper when linux installs? (: | 15:25 |
| knome | elfy, we *could* :) | 15:25 |
| elfy | right | 15:25 |
| ochosi | yeah, but the point was we don't | 15:25 |
| elfy | so I'll take that with a pich of salt | 15:25 |
| ochosi | and isn't stuff that is "a bit 90's" totally in again? | 15:25 |
| elfy | I play sudoko from time to time | 15:25 |
| elfy | to while away boredom | 15:25 |
| knome | i'm not really sure if a distro will look "cheap and flimsy" if it doesn't ship games... | 15:26 |
| elfy | it doesn't hurt to have them | 15:27 |
| ochosi | yeah, i'd still try to supply some facts about the costliness of having the games | 15:27 |
| elfy | why? | 15:27 |
| knome | no, but that argument isn't valid either | 15:27 |
| ochosi | just to get some grounding for why we would want them removed | 15:27 |
| ochosi | (or wouldn't) | 15:27 |
| elfy | ochosi: it was just a throw away comment from me | 15:27 |
| knome | if nobody else does it, i'll do a brief summary of the discussion some time | 15:27 |
| elfy | which one or two thought was a great idea - notably just knome and slickymasterWork from memory | 15:28 |
| slickymasterWork | right, I was one | 15:29 |
| slickymasterWork | and I stand by it | 15:29 |
| knome | i don't think we need the games and are probably the one to suggest removing them first | 15:29 |
| elfy | frankly I think that giving people abiword and gnumeric is a bigger issue than a couple of small games | 15:29 |
| ochosi | yeah, those two are mostly crappy | 15:30 |
| ochosi | i still agree on that | 15:30 |
| knome | elfy, that's related, but i don't want to mess up the thread with libreoffice stuff.. | 15:30 |
| elfy | knome: good - pleia2 is supposed to be doing a seperate one for that :) | 15:30 |
| knome | yep... | 15:30 |
| knome | uh oh already :) | 15:30 |
| ochosi | yeah, that thread... | 15:31 |
| ochosi | i'm already afraid of it | 15:31 |
| elfy | ochosi: lol | 15:31 |
| elfy | don't see why - just do it and get it over with :) | 15:31 |
| knome | "do it", you mean install libreoffice by default? | 15:32 |
| knome | because i can't see many opinions against that on the mailing list tbh | 15:32 |
| knome | (that doesn't mean it's the (only) correct solution) | 15:33 |
| ochosi | again, assessing the facts would be good (how big would the iso become exactly?) | 15:33 |
| knome | maybe Unit193 can brew one | 15:34 |
| ochosi | yeah, that would be nice | 15:34 |
| knome | that would give us a real-world number versus some hypothetical one | 15:34 |
| elfy | when the time comes it depends on what we actually go with - just calc and writer would be the obvious thing as direct replacements rather than the whole thing like ubuntu | 15:34 |
| knome | elfy, i'm sure people will vouch for impress too, and if we include LO stuff, i wouldn't have many arguments against throwing it in as well | 15:35 |
| knome | and at that point, it's probably not a *huge* thing to pull in either | 15:35 |
| elfy | Need to get 4,754 kB of archives. | 15:36 |
| elfy | After this operation, 18.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. | 15:36 |
| elfy | for installing impress ^^ | 15:36 |
| elfy | Need to get 56.3 MB of archives. | 15:37 |
| elfy | After this operation, 119 MB of additional disk space will be used. | 15:37 |
| elfy | for installing all of the bits of LO I don't have | 15:37 |
| knome | we probably don't want base | 15:38 |
| knome | and i don't know about draw either.. | 15:38 |
| knome | (or if we add that, drop GIMP!!) | 15:38 |
| knome | :P | 15:38 |
| elfy | exactly | 15:38 |
| knome | (even if it isn't a replacement...) | 15:39 |
| knome | wow, something weird happened | 15:39 |
| knome | got analog noise from hdmi | 15:39 |
| elfy | so you scared unit off then | 15:43 |
| elfy | bad knome :p | 15:43 |
| knome | yes... | 15:43 |
| knome | ;) | 15:43 |
| brainwash | ochosi: I've already updated the broken patch in xdg-utils and a new version has been uploaded. However, I did not file any SRU yet, because I want to test a patch for proper DE detection first | 16:27 |
| ochosi | ah good | 16:27 |
| ochosi | thanks for that | 16:27 |
| * ochosi is still catching up | 16:28 | |
| brainwash | ochosi: the xdg- apps don't seem to detect Xfce, so xdg-screensaver falls back to "other/none DE" | 16:28 |
| ochosi | could be that that already was the case before | 16:29 |
| ochosi | or did you notice some real breakage in the script wrt that? | 16:29 |
| brainwash | it does not break anything in xdg-screensaver, because if no known screensaver is detected, it will control the X11 screensaver in both cases (Xfce or no DE) | 16:30 |
| brainwash | but still... it should detect Xfce properly | 16:31 |
| brainwash | upstream does | 16:32 |
| brainwash | ochosi: oh, you should read the last comment in the xfpm lp report | 16:33 |
| brainwash | well, basically we are waiting for cavalier to come up with a solution :D | 16:33 |
| ochosi | brainwash: right, that sounds like i actually don't have to read it then | 16:38 |
| brainwash | always helps to read the details | 16:39 |
| knome | unless you're the project lead and just want to know the overview and that it's being handled | 16:42 |
| ochosi | yup ^ | 16:50 |
| brainwash | but you are involved with xfpm and light-locker =S | 16:51 |
| knome | what in xubuntu isn't he involved with? | 16:52 |
| brainwash | as direct contributor? | 16:52 |
| knome | well tbh i don't think he would be a direct contributor to the projects you mentioned either if he didn't have to | 16:53 |
| ochosi | brainwash: i still can't look at each bug individually all the time. so when others like you and cavalier are looking into it already, i'm knocking it down on my priority list | 16:53 |
| knome | brainwash, you know.. he trusts you to handle it, be worthy of the trust :) | 16:53 |
| knome | (and i have no doubts you wouldn't... but take it as a compliment that he's not looking into it) | 16:54 |
| brainwash | I understand, maybe I'm just overhyping this issue | 16:55 |
| knome | probably... and if it doesn't work as expected, there's still plenty of time for other people to look at it :) | 16:58 |
| knome | we haven't even put out a single alpha/beta image | 16:58 |
| elfy | take the trust and use it to you advantage :) | 17:01 |
| elfy | d'oh - said that out loud :p | 17:02 |
| ochosi | hm, weather plugin not working for anyone else too? | 17:04 |
| ochosi | hm weird, works again after resetting the location | 17:04 |
| ochosi | hmpf, that remote login really goes for reboots a lot lately... | 17:22 |
| ochosi | anyway, i'm off again for now, hf everyone | 17:22 |
| elfy | cya :) | 17:23 |
| knome | pleia2 dropped the bomb! run! evacuate! | 20:36 |
| pleia2 | almost waited until right before airplane ;) | 20:36 |
| pleia2 | (airplane is my tomorrow morning) | 20:37 |
| knome | that would have been sneaky. | 20:37 |
| knome | pleia2, reasons like xubuntu will look cheap and flimsy if no games are shipped? | 20:37 |
| * knome shakes his head | 20:37 | |
| pleia2 | and newcomers look for something familiar | 20:38 |
| pleia2 | I get that, I've seen it | 20:38 |
| knome | yeah i can agree and empathize with *that* | 20:38 |
| knome | but not that an OS is cheap or flimsy if it doesn't have a default game... | 20:38 |
| knome | if we want to ship a game by default, ship openttd >:) | 20:39 |
| elfy | one person's opinion of that doesn't cheapen the whole of the discussion | 20:39 |
| Unit193 | lbreakout2. | 20:39 |
| knome | elfy, no. | 20:39 |
| Unit193 | Also, isn't there a mute button for the list? I think I'm going to need a mute button! | 20:39 |
| elfy | which isn't about changing what we ship - but whether we do or don't | 20:39 |
| knome | Unit193, a tetris isn't a bad idea | 20:39 |
| knome | Unit193, find the unsubscribe button :P | 20:40 |
| knome | what about quadrapassel? | 20:40 |
| knome | Unit193, re: discussion before, do you think you could craft an ISO with abiword an gnumeric dropped and lo-writer and -calc added? | 20:41 |
| knome | Unit193, just to get a real number for the ISO size | 20:41 |
| knome | and if it isn't too much, do one more with -impress installed as well | 20:42 |
| Unit193 | knome: Thought I did that already once. I'd suppose so, but it'd be a (close) estimate still since it's removing and adding rather than doing an exact build how they would. | 20:42 |
| knome | Unit193, close estimate is better than a random guesstimate | 20:42 |
| knome | i got to say, having -core ready for people who want a less complex system makes me less worried about including libreoffice stuff | 20:43 |
| knome | but i can't help that i'm starting to think a core ISO would be nice too | 20:43 |
| * Unit193 calls not it. | 20:45 | |
| * elfy calls that's a decision for XPL :p | 20:45 | |
| knome | heyy... i'm not proposing anything | 20:46 |
| knome | :P | 20:46 |
| knome | so there is no decision to be made either :) | 20:46 |
| Unit193 | knome: And by -calc and -writer only, I presume you mean to include -gtk? :P | 20:46 |
| knome | Unit193, yes of course. | 20:46 |
| knome | Unit193, and recommends :P | 20:47 |
| Unit193 | Of course! | 20:47 |
| knome | ...and if you please would, depends too ! | 20:47 |
| Unit193 | Dang, cought me. | 20:47 |
| knome | caught too | 20:47 |
| Unit193 | Yes, that. | 20:47 |
| knome | elfy, let's be *VERY* theoretical now | 20:49 |
| knome | elfy, if we had the -core iso, wouldn't installation tests done for that be enough? | 20:49 |
| knome | elfy, the main ISO having installation tests maybe now and then (milestones) | 20:49 |
| knome | elfy, and package-related testing happening outside that as usual | 20:50 |
| knome | elfy, and please, take this very theoretically.... :) | 20:50 |
| knome | elfy, eg. still not proposing anything, or thinkin about proposing, just thinking aloud | 20:50 |
| knome | (aloud, but with a very quiet whisper) | 20:51 |
| knome | (movie reference: gladiator) | 20:51 |
| Unit193 | Eh, problem with that is you'd not be checking for missing functionality due to missing packages. | 20:51 |
| knome | Unit193, but wouldn't that functionality be missing from the packages? | 20:51 |
| knome | i mean, core being the "core xubuntu experience" | 20:51 |
| knome | i guess that IF we ever did that ^, we'd need some changes in a thought level too.. | 20:52 |
| elfy | well ... | 20:52 |
| elfy | on a purely theoretical level | 20:53 |
| elfy | why you talk of testing? | 20:53 |
| elfy | it doesn't get done | 20:53 |
| knome | sorry for asking then... | 20:54 |
| elfy | but if it DID get done | 20:54 |
| Unit193 | knome: I mean like polkit or something mssing | 20:54 |
| Unit193 | messing up* | 20:54 |
| knome | Unit193, mmh. i guess if something is failing in core, then it's a fail currently, and we should make sure that doesn't happen | 20:55 |
| elfy | then I would say that we'd need it to be set up like everything is currently for not -core | 20:55 |
| elfy | shouldn't - assuming a level playing field - be hard to accomplish | 20:56 |
| knome | yep | 20:56 |
| Unit193 | Or just keep it at milestone, and keep Xubuntu Desktop as the flagship and Core as the redheaded stepchild... | 20:56 |
| knome | one of the benefits of that would be a smaller ISO to test with | 20:56 |
| knome | Unit193, sure ;) | 20:57 |
| elfy | Unit193: yea - that's a possibility | 20:57 |
| elfy | on the other hand | 20:57 |
| Unit193 | Speaking of which, wanted that new test done about now, elfy? | 20:57 |
| elfy | assuming current interest in testing - which we have to for the time being - that put's a lot of pressure on testing in 2 days | 20:58 |
| knome | mhm | 20:58 |
| elfy | yea - I did make a start on the 64 bit one then I wandered off playing with image testing for pleia2 | 20:58 |
| elfy | bad timing :D | 20:58 |
| elfy | knome: I'd rather not have to make that assumption - but it does need to be taken into account :) | 20:59 |
| Unit193 | I: Xubuntu LibreOffice | 20:59 |
| elfy | taps desk with fingers waiting for the punchline ... | 21:01 |
| Unit193 | elfy: I was going to try and break something before the next -core install, but not sure how. :P | 21:03 |
| knome | Unit193, sudo apt-get purge *udev* | 21:05 |
| Unit193 | knome: Well it pulls in more than you'd like. | 21:10 |
| knome | Unit193, of course. | 21:10 |
| Unit193 | 958M vivid-desktop-i386.iso | 21:14 |
| Unit193 | 1.1G xubuntu-15.04-lo-i386.iso | 21:14 |
| knome | that's... huh | 21:15 |
| knome | over 1G :P | 21:15 |
| knome | out of curiosity, how much is gimp? | 21:15 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-base-core 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-calc 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-common 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-core 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-gtk 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-math 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-style-galaxy 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-style-human 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | libreoffice-writer 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3 | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | Would have to use clever blacklisting to get it right. | 21:16 |
| Unit193 | And even then, blacklisting the two would only shave off ~3M. | 21:18 |
| Unit193 | But, https://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-15.04-lo-i386.iso (has md5sum and zsync too) | 21:19 |
| brainwash | bluesabre: trusty package does not include the updated keybind xml from vivid, commit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/482 is missing | 21:22 |
| Unit193 | And talking about impress, that has gstreamer backends to install and generally drags in -draw, pdfimport, and a couple libs, sooo... | 21:22 |
| elfy | knome: is there some actually important reason for being less than 1Gb | 21:22 |
| Unit193 | elfy: That's our limit, we set it a few cycles back. | 21:23 |
| elfy | and? | 21:23 |
| elfy | we did other things then too - we used to install xchat because too ;) | 21:24 |
| Unit193 | And nothing, that's the current limit. | 21:24 |
| knome | elfy, it's one of the "magic numbers", if we go over that, we rule out a set of USB sticks | 21:24 |
| Unit193 | I'd personally like to keep it small, but.. :/ | 21:24 |
| knome | nothing more than that, but it's something to keep in mnid | 21:24 |
| knome | *mind too | 21:24 |
| knome | at the least, i would i'd want a team vote on crossing over that line | 21:27 |
| knome | err, -i'd :) | 21:27 |
| elfy | knome: well yea - but if we went to 2 we'd rule out more - I don't think that should be a particularly important consideration any longer | 21:29 |
| Unit193 | :/ | 21:30 |
| elfy | especially if the consideration random small USB's that people pick up from here and there for free :) | 21:30 |
| elfy | if it's that important make it small enough for CD's so people that haven't caught up with DVD's are ok again :) | 21:31 |
| knome | i don't think there is any way to make xubuntu fit a CD again | 21:31 |
| * Unit193 could do it. | 21:31 | |
| knome | but now that i said that, i'm sure Unit193 will prove me wrong | 21:31 |
| knome | yeah. | 21:31 |
| elfy | heh | 21:31 |
| elfy | can you even buy 1Gb sticks still - from somewhere other than a dodgy e-bay seller ... | 21:33 |
| Unit193 | Pretty sure. | 21:33 |
| knome | or existing :) | 21:33 |
| elfy | just think that worrying about 1Gb or less shouldn't be an over-riding consideration | 21:34 |
| elfy | anymore - it's almost closer to 2020 than 2010 now :) | 21:35 |
| Unit193 | Not that I should complain too much, I've got some work to do, getting my respin under 1Gb. :/ | 21:37 |
| elfy | wandering off now - night all :) | 21:39 |
| Unit193 | G'night! | 21:39 |
| knome | nighty elfy! | 21:43 |
| bluesabre | brainwash: *facepalm* | 23:59 |
| bluesabre | bbiab | 23:59 |
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