[01:31] <aeoril> I am wanting to start developing for Ubuntu.  I am interested in low level development (like kernel, drivers, modules, etc) but have not developed on Linux in a while.  I am trying to pick an appropriate image to start developing on from cdimage.ubuntu.com.  I found the images for Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS (Trusty Tahr).  Would that be a good choice?
[01:32] <aeoril> Also, is there an IRC channel for beginners to Ubuntu development?  #ubuntu-beginners-dev says "invite only" when I try to join
[01:32] <Noskcaj> aeoril, #ubuntu-kernal is for most low-level stuff
[01:32] <Noskcaj> oops, spelt it wrong
[01:33] <aeoril> Ok, I will repeat my question there
[01:33] <Noskcaj> #ubuntu-kernel
[01:34] <Noskcaj> there's no real beginner developer stuff other than the "bitesize" bug tag, the 100 papercuts project, and then just finding whatever issues affect you
[01:35] <aeoril> Noskcaj I have been idling on #ubuntu-kernel for some time and it is very low volume - I think my question is pretty general, thouhg - what image to use to start development on?
[01:36] <Noskcaj> I run xubuntu vivid (15.04), but you can develop from any ubuntu image really
[01:36] <aeoril> Noskcaj how did you get it to run?  The only images I see on the website are source images, except for the daily builds, for that version
[01:36] <Noskcaj> 14.04.2 is going to come out in a week, so maybe the daily for it, see if there's anything you can help with, although it's mostly testing that late in the cycle
[01:37] <aeoril> Noskcaj did you load from the daily build image?
[01:37] <Noskcaj> i upgraded from 14.10, but you can install with the daily
[01:37] <Noskcaj> you get the same result
[01:38] <aeoril> Noskcaj I am wondering if I should stick with 14.04.1 for now because I fear the dailies may not be as stable - I do not think I need the absolute latest to just get started with - I am in learning mode right now, going through some textbooks to learn some theory and stuff for kernel/driver/module development
[01:39] <Noskcaj> 14.04.2 dailies are pretty much as stable as 14.04.1 now, but like i said, you can use whatever version of ubuntu you want
[01:39] <aeoril> Noskcaj oh, that is good to know - so just because it is a daily does not mean it is necessarily unstable?
[01:40] <Noskcaj> no
[01:40] <Noskcaj> daily means it's built using whatever is current for that release
[01:41] <aeoril> I was thinking of using 14.04.1 LTS as my base, then using virtual machines under it to run other versions for development and learning - does that sound reasonable?
[01:41] <Noskcaj> yep
[01:42] <aeoril> Does Ubuntu come natively with VM support?
[01:42] <Noskcaj> you need to install something like qemu or virtualbox from the repositories for VMs
[01:42] <aeoril> I have not really looked that far yet
[01:42] <aeoril> oh, ok - any preference for most developers which VM software they use?
[01:43] <Noskcaj> I think kvm/qemu is slightly better most of the time from a devel perspective, but a lot of people like each option
[01:44] <Noskcaj> vmware is pretty good if you don't need an opensource VM too
[01:44] <aeoril> Is vmware free as well?  I thought it was pay
[01:45] <darkxst> aeoril, vmware player is free for non-commercial use
[01:45] <darkxst> and despite the name, it can create VM's
[01:45] <aeoril> ok, thanks, darkst
[01:46] <aeoril> Unfortunately, there is noone answering my query on #ubuntu-kernel - it just does not seem to get much traffic, from what I have seen
[01:46] <darkxst> aeoril, vmware has the best 3D support, but if you don't need that kvm/qemu are good
[01:47] <Noskcaj> aeoril, a few of the devs are probably asleep in -kernal. What timezone are you?
[01:47] <darkxst> Noskcaj, except the HWE stack has not landed
[01:47] <darkxst> (for 14.04.2)
[01:47] <aeoril> I am in Central time USA (Chicago)
[01:47] <Noskcaj> darkxst, In that case, slightly less stable
[01:48] <aeoril> Last time anyone posted to #ubuntu-kernel was 10 hours ago ...
[01:48] <Noskcaj> aeoril, Just be aware that this is a global community, so not all questions can be answered at any time
[01:48] <Noskcaj> although -kernel isn't a super active channel
[01:49] <aeoril> Noskcaj ok, I will keep that in mind
[01:50] <aeoril> Well, I guess I will use that plan for now - 14.04.1 with VMs for newer or older versions
[01:50] <Noskcaj> :)
[01:51] <Noskcaj> Depending on how much you have setup, maybe start by finding a bug or build failure you can reproduce yourself and try and fix that
[01:55] <aeoril> Right now, I am doing theory.  I am reading Tannenbaum's "Modern Operating Systems," and need low level source code to be able to follow along with the theory in that textbook by looking at actual working code in Linux to see how things are really done in live production
[01:56] <aeoril> So, I will be viewing the kernel source and headers and doing builds and stuff, and building low-level hacking stuff to learn as I follow along in my books
[01:57] <aeoril> Once I have a sufficient basic understanding of theory (e.g., along the lines of what I would get at Univesity) I will delve into trying to help with Ubuntu - the kernel site says their biggest need is bug triage, so I figure maybe that would be a good place to start actually helping the Ubuntu community?
[01:58] <aeoril> I am active a lot on #osdev here on freenode - they are very active, and have been very helpful to me as I learn
[01:58] <Noskcaj> aeoril, bug triage helps us at lot, but really anything you are willing to help with helps
[01:58] <aeoril> They also have a great book list
[01:58] <Noskcaj> For example, i'm pretty bad at coding, but do a lot of packaging and triage work
[01:59] <aeoril> Noskcaj what is the best way to learn?  To get my feet wet?  I like to do things in a very organized fashion, building on basics first then going up from there.  I have a long history of coding under my belt, but just not a whole lot on Linux (but a fair amount on Unix)
[02:00] <Noskcaj> Find a bug that affects you or you can reproduce, do something to make it closer to being fixed
[02:01] <Noskcaj> bugs with the "bitesize" tag are often easier to start with
[02:01] <aeoril> Yes, that makes sense
[02:02] <Noskcaj> If there's a program that you use regularly, i could run you though the steps of fixing a bug in it.
[02:02] <Noskcaj> brb, need lunch
[02:02] <aeoril> ok, thanks
[02:05] <aeoril> Noskcaj I am really getting into this book right now - I am working on learning about all kinds of low-level stuff, and I kind of want to stick with hacking the kernel source right now
[02:06] <aeoril> For instance, the thing I am working on right now is understanding and implementing spinlocks in the kernel in assembler because that is where I am in the book
[02:07] <aeoril> Noskcaj I need to get my development machine up and running, then get the kernel development environment all set up with the appropriate source code, etc.
[02:08] <Noskcaj> ok, just ping me if you get stuck
[02:09] <aeoril> Noskcaj cool!  Thanks!  I really appreciate the help!
[02:09] <Noskcaj> no problem
[02:09] <Noskcaj> It's great to see someone new around
[02:14] <aeoril> It's great to be here!  I have a background in doing some Linux (and Ubuntu) development, but mainly Solaris and real-time variant Unix systems and embedded OSes and even some firmware development and hardware integration for embedded systems and simulations
[02:16] <aeoril> I was fairly active in the Ubuntu development community some years ago but only for a few months - I took a detour into Web development because it seemed very interesting (and it is) but I finally felt I wanted to get back to my low-level roots.  I think I can be of more service there and will like it better, I hope
[02:17]  * aeoril likes bit-twiddling
[07:21] <hillma> is this bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mit-scheme/+bug/373018 , fixable now as debian already have amd64 for mit-scheme ?
[21:55] <Noskcaj> happyaron, ping
[21:56] <Noskcaj> Any chance you could fix https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=776694 ? It should be a pretty minor patch