[00:56] I am trying to install Ubuntu Touch on my Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (n8013) and I am wondering how hard it would be to use the newest vivid build? [00:57] !devices [00:57] You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices [01:00] I saw that earlier but noticed that it was for the Sony Xperia Tablet Z. Is that interchangable with the Galaxy Note 10.1? === JoseeAntonioR is now known as jose [01:12] kenvandine: there is no way to turn the mic volume down atm (afaik the hal doesn't support it), but I know we're missing some audio mixing with mako [01:13] kenvandine: bfiller: we have the bug open for mako, but unfortunately not enough time to invest on it [01:13] most of the time was to make sure krillin was fine [01:15] firemedic624: your guess is as good as mine. The answer is almost always "no". === chriadam|away is now known as chriadam [01:15] Even the Nexus 7 and the 2013 Nexus 7 are (computer part-wise) completely different devices with no similarities! :) [01:16] ok, here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting the guide are deprecated, it will be a new guide soon? [01:18] rsalveti, thx, updating the radio firmware fixed the robot voice :) [01:18] great [01:18] but the volume is still super high [01:18] do you see that too? [01:18] really whoever i talk to can just put their phone down and walk away [01:18] sorry, don't use mako for calls usually, but I know it had that issue, yeah [01:18] they can hear me [01:18] which firmware did you install? [01:18] 4.4 [01:18] actually [01:19] wow, that happened with the firmware from 4.2 afaik [01:19] interesting [01:19] today i updated it to the 5.0.1 [01:19] same thing [01:19] the robot voice is fixed though :) [01:19] that was in 4.2 i think [01:19] =\, will try to take a look later this week and see [01:19] yeah [01:19] if we can just turn the mic volume down now [01:19] hard when you have so many criticals to work on :-) [01:19] it'd be great [01:19] yeah [01:19] yeah [01:19] understand [01:19] voice calls are great on krillin [01:20] but... sucks for data, can't live on edge anymore [01:20] indeed, that sucks hard [01:20] so i'd rather have 3g and annoy people on the phone [01:20] than have edge :) [01:21] i tried playing with pactrl set-source-volume [01:21] changing the volumes did nothing [01:21] yeah, because the hal ignores it [01:21] need to check if that is indeed possilble [01:22] don't even know if you can do that on android [01:22] rsalveti, i'd appreciate it :) [01:22] :-) === jamesh_ is now known as jamesh === g0tch4 is now known as Mongolian_FBI === Mongolian_FBI is now known as diamondcore === diamondcore is now known as uuhimhere === salem_ is now known as _salem [05:11] i'm trying to use sudo on my phone, but when give the password as "phablet" it doesn't work. whoami gives phablet. running vivid-development build 95 [05:11] any ideas? [05:14] bazz: hey, the password will be the code you use to unlock your phone [05:18] marcustomlinson: ahh, thanks! that did it. how come all the guides say to use "phablet"? [05:18] bazz: which guide are you looking at? [05:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#AdbAccess [05:19] guess that's old release notes, sorry [05:19] i should have looked at which version it was for [05:19] i couldn't find anything newer though :) [05:22] hmmm, yeah, not sure if that is explained anywhere on the website [05:24] hrmm, now i can't update anything because / is mounted read only. can i just remount it rw? [05:25] bazz: exit adb, then run "phablet-config writable-image" with the phone plugged in [05:25] bazz: this is explained in: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/ [05:26] marcustomlinson: i don't run ubuntu on my laptop, so i haven't installed phablet-config... [05:26] ahh, nm, i found where i can get it though :) [05:28] marcustomlinson: arg, lots of dependencies. is there a way to enable writable without phablet-tools or do i have to install it? [05:29] bazz: let me see [05:29] marcustomlinson: thanks, i appreciate it [05:36] bazz: from adb shell do: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.canonical.PropertyService /com/canonical/PropertyService com.canonical.PropertyService.SetProperty string:writable boolean:true [05:37] cool, that did it, thanks :) [05:38] cool :) [05:39] so is that why enabling developer options requires setting a passcode? [05:39] yes [05:44] makes sense for the first time, but then why can't i turn it back off and keep developer mode on. [05:49] bazz: possibly because ssh is autoconfigured with the same security. Kinda dangerous leaving yourself open to ssh attacks. Thats my guess [05:50] marcustomlinson: wouldn't ssh just take the password i set the first time? [05:51] bazz: yeah, but update if you change the password right? Removing the password is technically an update [05:51] marcustomlinson: ohh, so when i turn off the security it changes my password back to nothing? i guess that makes sense then, although it's super annoying to have those tied together. i hate having a pin to unlock my phone, but i want to mess around with adb/ssh etc [05:52] bazz: yeah, I'm with you there. I just set a really simple passcode 0000 or something [05:54] marcustomlinson: yeah, heh, exactly what i do too. which is like, almost worse, because now if i'm attacking something i know is an ubuntu phone i'm gonna try simple passcodes like that [05:54] bazz: hense the big warning image when setting to dev mode ;) [05:55] marcustomlinson: yeah, good point. anyway, so what happens if i enable dev mode, install ssh, then turn off lock screen security? can i ssh in with no password? [05:56] bazz: that sounds like a fun project :) [05:56] bazz: haha, not sure, give it a try [05:57] marcustomlinson: will give it a go :) [05:57] bazz: no amount of policing can stop a guy shooting himself in the foot at home alone in his room [05:59] marcustomlinson: yeah for sure. i just think tying those things together is a poor choice and will encourage foot shooting [05:59] bazz: right [06:00] well perhaps someone else on this channel has any thoughts ^ [06:05] marcustomlinson: ahh, seems ssh is set to not allow password authentication :) [06:06] bazz: hence the passcode I suppose [06:06] bazz: so you can ssh in but can't screw around without the code [06:07] marcustomlinson: yeah, kinda makes sense actually, temporarily use adb to set sshd up and running and put your public key there, and then use ssh after that [07:07] hey folks. i'm looking into installing ubuntu touch on my 2nd gen nexus 7 and i'm wondering if it's going to overwrite my existing twrp recovery [07:40] good morning === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away [07:46] morning [08:19] Hi there, any one interested in porting Ubuntu Touch to RK3288 development board ? [09:20] hi guys [09:20] do you know when the bq phone with ubuntu will be put to sale? [09:21] antoniut: this week [09:22] antoniut: follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when [09:30] popye: thanks :) [09:30] popey [09:32] so hows the aquarius e4.5 [09:32] As #ubuntu-phone appears to be a closed channel, is this the correct place to lurk for announcements about sales of the BQ device? [09:32] follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when [09:33] mcphail: #ubuntu-phone should redirect here [09:33] Good morning all; happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day! :-D [09:33] popey: thanks - unfortunately twitter is blocked at work so was hoping to use IRC instead ;) [09:34] mcphail: Ok, we'll update the topic here [09:34] once we have a link [09:34] popey: you're a star [09:35] why is ubuntu-phoine closed? [09:37] but srsly whats the deal with the e4.5? [09:37] has anybody tried it? [09:38] uhhimhere: the channel redirects here, it's not closed [09:38] uhhimhere: we redirected a bunch of channels here, rather than have too many channels [09:38] uhhimhere, only 30 ppl have it in their hands yet ... til the first flash sale starts this week [09:38] whats with this flash sale anyways? [09:38] reminds me of the sega saturn "launch" [09:39] most of them post on social media, you should be able to find videos etc [09:39] It's a common method of selling new devices with chinese companies [09:41] certainly a good way to build excitement about a product [09:41] well ... it is more than marketing strategy :) [09:41] for a small phone manufacturer the margin you earn on a phone isnt actually big [09:42] sure - but this isn't a new device for BQ so the risks aren't so high in manufacturing [09:42] if you have to pay 1€ per week as storage costs for devices you want to sell, thats a lot of money for them [09:42] it is a different production [09:42] (no android buttons on the glass for example) [09:43] ogra_: interesting - didn't realise that [09:43] so you only pre-produce a certain amount ... [09:43] so is it ubuntu w/ libhybris [09:43] or is it ubuntu ubuntu [09:43] its a phone .... since you know what libhybris is i guess you can answer that yourself ;) [09:44] there is no way to make HW work on a phone without binary blob drivers [09:44] i can but id rather err on the side of optimism [09:45] optimism that we developed free drivers for undocumented modem HW ? [09:45] (or sensors, GPS, graphics ... make your pick) [09:46] we arent better than jolla or firefoxOS in that regard, all of us need to use the drivers available [09:47] uhhimhere: i think we're a few years away from open firmware for a popular phone. With the recent explosion in Linux-based mobile operating systems, that day might come [09:47] yeah but since ubuntu OS aims to be a dockable system ; its going to be competing with the likes of intelHD so openess in alot more than baseband would come in handy [09:47] but while jolla integrates them in their rootfs and uses hybris ... and friefox even wrapped their whole OS around them without using hybris, ubuntu phone boots directly into a clean ubuntu ... all android bits are inside an lxc container that gets started on demand during boot [09:49] (you *could* turn it just off and run your phone as i.e. a webserver with a clean ubuntu installation) === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk === vrruiz_ is now known as rvr [09:56] Hey I'm new here. Just a quick question, will Bq aquaris e4.5 be able to flash ubuntu touch? [09:57] i heard bq plans to release images for that, yes [09:57] not sure when though ... i guess onbly after the first devices have been sold [09:57] Cool! Anymore details? [09:58] nope, thats all i know [09:58] kay thanks, dropping back in after a while bye guys [09:58] And ladies [09:59] will there be any vivante based ubuntu phones? [10:00] would be cool to see ubuntu-touch running with etnaviv drivers on the gfx side [10:00] convince vivante to port it ;) [10:00] or make them ask canonical [10:01] (or port it yourself) [10:01] huh? port what [10:01] ubuntu for phones ;) [10:01] oSoMoN, o/ [10:01] im confused [10:01] they dont make phones [10:01] ah [10:01] hey rpadovani! [10:03] oSoMoN, unfortunately I'll not be able to join wed hangout, 'cause I do on wed afternoon laser surgery to eyes, so I think until saturay I'll not able to be at computer [10:03] oSoMoN, anyway tonight I try to do a first submit for setttings ui [10:04] rpadovani, awesome, and don’t worry about missing the hangout, we can catch up later (I’ll be off on Thursday and Friday, which is why we moved the weekly catchup this week) [10:04] Hi! I would like to try Unity8 on my desktop. And It worked one time in the past, but now It doesn't log in. It shows the LightDM but when I click on the login button it only shows the lightdm again with blank login window. Any idea? [10:04] uhhimhere, well, while that would be a step forward you still wont get around using a modem on a phone ... [10:04] robertoper: probably best asking in #ubuntu-desktop [10:05] oSoMoN, cool, thanks! [10:05] popey: Ok, thanks [10:14] ogra_, dont matter if i could dual boot [10:14] dual boot ? [10:14] how would that solve the closed driver issue [10:14] ogra_, one factory image one not-factory image [10:15] i still dont see how that helps [10:15] one image specifically for desktop computing [10:15] you wont be able to do anything with the phone without drivers [10:15] that doesnt require RF specific drivers [10:16] true ... but why would you use two images for that ? [10:16] because its now a desktop-ish platform; therefore I can [10:16] whats a desktop-ish platform ? [10:16] what is a phone? [10:17] (how would apt-get install be different on desktop vs phone) [10:17] (and why would i care ... if i want a desktop experience i could just install it, no need for an extra image) [10:18] im talking about the hardware not the OS [10:18] now i lost you i think ... i thought we talk aboout phone hardware [10:19] running ubuntu ... [10:19] komodo dragons! === Neo31` is now known as Neo31 [10:31] Hi everyone. I'm in the US and am interested in running Ubuntu Touch on a phone. Do you think buying a used Nexus 4 is my best bet, or would you recommend waiting for the new phones coming out? [10:31] the Nexus 4 has similar specs to the Aquaris [10:32] sounds like whatever Meizu releases will have better specs [10:32] the nexus4 definitely has higher specs than the aquaris ;) [10:32] double the RAM is the big one [10:33] but the battery, screen size, and processor speed are very similar [10:33] more performant CPUs is the other ;) [10:33] and it has a way higher res display ... [10:33] ... yet ... ubuntu performs a lot better on the bq [10:33] :) [10:33] the video I saw made it look like there was similar performance between the Aquaris and the Nexus 4 === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [10:34] the Nexus 4 will run on US networks, but I'll probably just tether to my Nexus 5 anyway, and any of these phones will support wifi, so having 3G or 4G working isn't much of a concern [10:35] there are images for the nexus5 by the community [10:35] Does it seem like it'll be feasible to get an Ubuntu phone -- either the BQ one or the Meizu one -- in the US within the next 3 months? [10:35] iirc even multirom ones [10:35] ogra_: I looked into the Nexus 5 image a few months ago and it sounded too buggy to be a daily driver yet [10:35] i'm not sure about the distribution to US, the meizu will support is frequencies though [10:36] the bq doesnt, you will be bound to edge [10:36] i use it on my nexus 4 as daily driver [10:36] Rubesman: interesting, even without 4G? [10:36] yeah, the N4 should run fine ... there is just not as much optimization of the HW stack as there is in the bq [10:36] ogra_: think the Meizu will support US frequencies? I hadn't heard anything fully confirmed about their device [10:37] i'm pretty sure it will [10:37] the Meizu one will be the MX4 running ubuntu [10:37] svij: isn't that still a rumor at this stage? A year ago it looked like the MX3 would be running Ubuntu [10:37] but i cant tell you if/when there will be US distribution channels ... [10:37] and some has speculated that the M1 Note will run Ubuntu [10:38] a lot has been speculated :) [10:38] ogra_: the Nexus 4 has been the only officially-supported phone to run Ubuntu for a long time. Are you sure it's not as optimized as the Aquaris? [10:38] elimisteve, yes [10:38] ogra_: a lot has, which is why I'm trying to figure out what's confirmed [10:39] elimisteve: well cristian parrino and jane silber told me that [10:39] that it is the MX4 [10:39] svij: do you know if the MX4 is confirmed? I saw a nicely-made/almost-official-looking video made of the MX4 running Ubuntu [10:39] well they would know :-) [10:39] exactly [10:39] they said that recently? [10:40] on fridays ubuntu phone launch event, yes [10:40] the only officially confirmed thing is the aquaris ... the semi official thing is what svij told you :) [10:40] okay :-D thanks [10:40] hmmm [10:40] they even told that during an interview with me, which I will publish soon [10:41] Rubesman: how do you like your N4 running Ubuntu Touch? [10:41] but again, you might need someone in europe to buy it for you if you want it urgently ... it might still take a while for US distribution [10:41] svij: excellent, thanks. Do you havea Twitter feed or blog where you will announce this? [10:41] elimisteve: @svijee on twitter, svij.org or just planet.ubuntu.com [10:41] ogra_: I have a friend in London who may be able to buy it for me... [10:41] svij: great thank you [10:41] elimisteve, cool [10:42] hmm, decisions decisions [10:42] sounds like the Meizu phone will be announced within the next month or so, yes? [10:42] (they also told me, that the release for US is planned hopefully for july) [10:42] elimisteve: MWC [10:42] I think I looked up the MWC dates and it's in a month or so [10:43] svij: you think the US release is that soon?! For the MX4? [10:43] does somebody know if were likely to get the new today and nearby scopes on the nexus 4? [10:43] well, selling the bq in the US wouldnt make much sense ;) [10:43] Rubesman, perhaps cwayne can tell you ... he is in a US timezone though, you might need to wait [10:44] thanks! [10:44] elimisteve: not sure if its the mx4, need to listen to that interview again [10:44] if bq releases them i doubt they wil do it before the first devices are sold though [10:44] Rubesman: on an Ubuntu On Air episode I saw a week or so ago, they talked about sending out OTA updates to all Ubuntu phones every 4 weeks [10:45] elimisteve, yep, thats the plan [10:45] every other 2-week release [10:45] ubuntu fo phones is a truely rolling release [10:46] the frequency of releases only depends on the speed that QA can be done [10:46] i think thats the best thing to do with a mobile operating system [10:47] ogra_: think the Ubuntu desktop will soon be a rolling release? [10:47] that's also rumored [10:47] i truely hope so [10:48] once the phone and desktop use the same underlying technology === _salem is now known as salem_ [10:48] Im not so sure about rolling release for phones. Frequent updates (with lots of QA) are fine, but rolling release with the potential for breakage is not so fine [10:48] cell phones too much random hardware [10:49] hm maybe [10:50] mcphail, if your QA is good there is no breakage [10:50] So another question, currently commercially available ubuntu touch, can ones install command line/daemon stuffs from it's repo? Like lighttpd, screen, nano etc. [10:50] you have to do a rather conservative and restrictive RR [10:50] yes [10:51] ogra_: no QA is close to perfect. We've had a few occasionas of brokX on the desktop release. Broken phone is much more serious [10:51] *broken [10:51] sounds cool, less hassle to deploy those on android [10:51] it means that you review and test every new line of code *before* it even enters the image [10:51] scooty: should be possible would think [10:51] then again in context of the image [10:52] and then again in context of alkl other changes that land in the same image [10:52] if oyu pass these tests it is releasable [10:52] ogra_: I admire your optimism! [10:52] adn indeed each new functionality can only land if a proper test comes alongside [10:52] mcphail, i'm describing what we do :) [10:53] this is 100% different from how the desktop is produced [10:53] ogra_: I don't doubt your process, but I think your faith in testing is misplaced. Tests never cover every situation. [10:54] no, they dont [10:54] which is why you have step-wise-miletones and dogfooders [10:54] ogra_: relying on QA isn't good enough; don't want to brick 10,000 phones in a day. Transactional updates sound perfect and much-needed [10:54] right [10:54] snappy is the next step :) [10:54] I sure hope so [10:55] that's awesome [10:55] ogra_: i think a 2 weekly schedule might just work. OTOH, the cyanogenmod chaps manage to break android with alarming frequency with a 4-weekly release [10:56] we have a 2 weekly schedule for milestones ... based on daily builds ... one of these 2 werekly milestones becomes the monthly release [10:56] (and at some point we have snappy with rollback and transactional updates that will cover for any possible issue that might slip throuh) [10:57] that sounds cool [10:57] yes - snappy should be great [10:57] and snappy and ubuntu phone are merging in some kind of way, right? [10:58] ah forgot to answer elimisteve: I love ubuntu on my n4. It gets almost everything done quietly. Everything works rather smoothly [10:58] well, snappy is an evolution of the current phone technology, yes, the plan is to merge it back in [10:58] Rubesman: that's great. What do you think is the single biggest thing Ubuntu Touch is missing right now? [10:58] I want encrypted SMS and IMing [10:58] * ogra_ whispers whatsapp :P [10:59] for me it would be textsecure [10:59] sounds like neither exist right now (encrypted SMS nor IMing) [10:59] (not that i ever used it, but thats the biggest request we get) [10:59] obviously https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/ is awesome [10:59] any idea if that's fully rolled out? [10:59] elimisteve, on the auqaris telegram is preinstalled [11:00] yeah but telegram should be doing encrypted texting right? [11:00] if I can use WhatsApp and know my messages are encrypted, I'm happy [11:00] right [11:00] i dont like the whatsapp thing [11:00] got out of that one or two years ago [11:01] Rubesman: why? [11:01] even if whispersystems teams up with them [11:01] its still closed source [11:01] elimisteve, how can u know the messages are encrypted? [11:02] https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/565103224265637889 === popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | On sale 20150211! === popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | On (flash)sale 20150211! [11:03] :D [11:03] its just not my idea of encryption, security and so on [11:03] good luck! [11:03] * mcphail hopes for a non-twitter link he can access at work... [11:03] http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html [11:04] there you go [11:04] ta! [11:04] np [11:04] "We're excited to announce that limited Ubuntu phones will be available to buy between 9am - 6pm (CET) tomorrow via @bqreaders #ubuntuphone" [11:04] rubenlagus: you can try sniffing your own traffic to see if your messages are encrypted. How is this different from any other app? Although... WhatsApp is closed source, huh :-\ [11:05] popey: thank you! [11:05] \o/ telegram [11:06] " [11:06] Ubuntu Store is growing every day. Although apps like WhatsApp, Google+ or Candy Crush aren´t here yet, you get many others such as Telegram, HERE Maps, Cut the Rope and web apps like Facebook and Twitter. [11:06] It would be better (imo) if I could check in sources that nothing is sent "undercover"... That's why I prefer Telegram [11:06] interesting salespitch... [11:06] is it really growing? [11:07] yes [11:07] rubenlagus: Telegram's crypto hasn't been really vetted has it? Lots of criticisms of its competition thing where they'll pay people who find vulnerabilities [11:07] http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png [11:07] ^ growing :) [11:08] seams more like plus one or two apps a week [11:08] not my idea of growing [11:08] we more and more need the "last apps" feed ;) [11:08] ybon: seen https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps ? [11:08] popey: in what area do you think is Ubuntu Touch most deficient, app-wise? And which apps do you think are needed that you fear won't be released for a while? In short, what's important and not being done? [11:08] has a "sort by newest first" option [11:08] svij, lol (G+) [11:09] elimisteve: games games games [11:09] ogra_: couldn't resist ;) [11:09] popey: han, no, never seen that, very nice, thanks :) [11:09] np [11:09] svij: nice! [11:09] yeah, if enough people re-share it your stream looks like a website from the 90s [11:10] haha [11:10] :) [11:10] popey: I'm a Go developer who doesn't like games :-). What else is missing? Communications? Productivity? Seems like music is well-covered... [11:10] elimisteve, I like that way of "test" encryption. People use to work harder when there is a price. Even though, during last context, noone was able to break it [11:10] sounds like there are enough apps already to switch over from iPhone already, but might get a second hand android e4.5 in the mean time if the image is released [11:10] elimisteve: what i really really dont like besides not having textsecure is the rather barebone web browser [11:11] is there a plan for rolling out firefox or chrome (-ium) [11:11] Rubesman: I heard a positive comment about the browser before. Is it fast but not full-featured enough? What's missing? [11:11] running FF or Chromium -- open source only! -- would rock [11:11] Rubesman: I understand that it's a basic WebKit-based browser [11:12] no, it isnt [11:12] elimisteve: yeah fast but no custom search engine afaik, no adblock functionality, ... [11:12] it uses our own engine ... called oxide, based on blink [11:12] presumably you can edit /etc/hosts for adblocking? [11:13] (way way faster than any webkit solution) [11:13] ogra_: I dug around in https://launchpad.net/webbrowser-app and read something about webkit, I believe [11:13] ogra:oh my yet another fork [11:13] how to change standard search engine? [11:13] elimisteve, it started on webkit 2 years ago ... probably there are still fragments [11:13] elimisteve: I'd also like to see some frameworks ported. [11:13] popey: what kinds of frameworks? [11:13] Scooty-loo, fork ? its development from scratch [11:14] elimisteve: rather than individual apps, port frameworks (e.g. like kivy, love [when talking about games specifically]) so others can port their games easily [11:14] I see [11:14] think there will be Unity3D support any time soon? [11:14] ogra_:I mean the web engine [11:14] thats my personal opinion anyway [11:14] I assume not [11:14] popey: does it have SDL2? [11:14] Scooty-loo, yeah, me too [11:14] ogra_:hmm kay [11:14] mcphail: yes, sdl2 supports mir [11:15] cool - my pong game is going stright on my phone when i get it! [11:15] Scooty-loo, it uses blink as a base and adds bits on top, i doubt anyone else does something like that or uses blink at all (well, except google) [11:15] yay! pong rocks! [11:16] ogra_: So the blink part could be updated independently [11:16] popey: sounds like there aren't very many scopes yet. I hope they get leveraged to great effect so that people feel like Ubuntu Touch has something unique and valuable [11:16] ogra_: Opera uses Blink now, or at least they said they would be [11:17] Scooty-loo, oxide could ... yes [11:17] yeah scopes have great potential i think [11:17] Scooty-loo, if you update blink you indeed have to re-build the whole engine :) [11:17] got used to using them already but id love to get the today scope [11:17] I'm very keen to hack for this OS, but until I get my hands on a device I don't really understand the best approach [11:18] mcphail, on what level do you want to hack on it ? [11:18] ogra: got the idea, thanks [11:18] how difficult would it be to develop scopes? im not really into that stuff but open to learning it [11:18] Rubesman: http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277 "Create an Ubuntu Scope in minutes" [11:18] mcphail: same here. Been looking at Go + QML, and it's cool and impressive (thank you niemeyer ), but I need to buy a Nexus 4 or something so I can spot shortcomings for myself and get excited about filling in gaps and hopefully genuinely innovating [11:18] Rubesman, there is a pretty easy path right now, but limited to a certain type of scopes : http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277 [11:19] ogra_: that's the thing: whether to write "apps" or not. I'm not sure how these "scopes" work yet and whether that approacgh is better [11:19] thanks! [11:19] mcphail, read the link popey posted :) [11:20] ogra_: popey I've installed ubuntu-sdk and an emulator. Is there full OS emulation, or do we just run individual apps? [11:20] both [11:20] Rubesman, if you want to dive in further : take a look at this tutorial (even if you don't know C++, it covers the full process) https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/write-a-json-scope-in-cpp/ [11:20] mcphail, thats the easy way ... you could indeed do plain C++ development if you like [11:20] if the whole OS image is the same in the emulator as it is on physical devices, then mcphail and I can learn a ton in the emulator before we have devices [11:20] many thanks again! [11:21] ogra_: the development process isn't the hurdle - I just haven't got the concept of what scopes actually _do_ yet. Until I get a device to play with I'm a bit stuck [11:21]