[00:56] <firemedic624> I am trying to install Ubuntu Touch on my Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (n8013) and I am wondering how hard it would be to use the newest vivid build?
[00:57] <nhaines> !devices
[01:00] <firemedic624> I saw that earlier but noticed that it was for the Sony Xperia Tablet Z.  Is that interchangable with the Galaxy Note 10.1?
[01:12] <rsalveti> kenvandine: there is no way to turn the mic volume down atm (afaik the hal doesn't support it), but I know we're missing some audio mixing with mako
[01:13] <rsalveti> kenvandine: bfiller: we have the bug open for mako, but unfortunately not enough time to invest on it
[01:13] <rsalveti> most of the time was to make sure krillin was fine
[01:15] <nhaines> firemedic624: your guess is as good as mine.  The answer is almost always "no".
[01:15] <nhaines> Even the Nexus 7 and the 2013 Nexus 7 are (computer part-wise) completely different devices with no similarities!  :)
[01:16] <krabador> ok, here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting the guide are deprecated, it will be a new guide soon?
[01:18] <kenvandine> rsalveti, thx, updating the radio firmware fixed the robot voice :)
[01:18] <rsalveti> great
[01:18] <kenvandine> but the volume is still super high
[01:18] <kenvandine> do you see that too?
[01:18] <kenvandine> really whoever i talk to can just put their phone down and walk away
[01:18] <rsalveti> sorry, don't use mako for calls usually, but I know it had that issue, yeah
[01:18] <kenvandine> they can hear me
[01:18] <rsalveti> which firmware did you install?
[01:18] <kenvandine> 4.4
[01:18] <kenvandine> actually
[01:19] <rsalveti> wow, that happened with the firmware from 4.2 afaik
[01:19] <rsalveti> interesting
[01:19] <kenvandine> today i updated it to the 5.0.1
[01:19] <kenvandine> same thing
[01:19] <kenvandine> the robot voice is fixed though :)
[01:19] <kenvandine> that was in 4.2 i think
[01:19] <rsalveti> =\, will try to take a look later this week and see
[01:19] <rsalveti> yeah
[01:19] <kenvandine> if we can just turn the mic volume down now
[01:19] <rsalveti> hard when you have so many criticals to work on :-)
[01:19] <kenvandine> it'd be great
[01:19] <kenvandine> yeah
[01:19] <rsalveti> yeah
[01:19] <kenvandine> understand
[01:19] <kenvandine> voice calls are great on krillin
[01:20] <kenvandine> but... sucks for data, can't live on edge anymore
[01:20] <rsalveti> indeed, that sucks hard
[01:20] <kenvandine> so i'd rather have 3g and annoy people on the phone
[01:20] <kenvandine> than have edge :)
[01:21] <kenvandine> i tried playing with pactrl set-source-volume
[01:21] <kenvandine> changing the volumes did nothing
[01:21] <rsalveti> yeah, because the hal ignores it
[01:21] <rsalveti> need to check if that is indeed possilble
[01:22] <rsalveti> don't even know if you can do that on android
[01:22] <kenvandine> rsalveti, i'd appreciate it :)
[01:22] <rsalveti> :-)
[05:11] <bazz> i'm trying to use sudo on my phone, but when give the password as "phablet" it doesn't work.  whoami gives phablet.  running vivid-development build 95
[05:11] <bazz> any ideas?
[05:14] <marcustomlinson> bazz: hey, the password will be the code you use to unlock your phone
[05:18] <bazz> marcustomlinson: ahh, thanks!  that did it.  how come all the guides say to use "phablet"?
[05:18] <marcustomlinson> bazz: which guide are you looking at?
[05:19] <bazz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#AdbAccess
[05:19] <bazz> guess that's old release notes, sorry
[05:19] <bazz> i should have looked at which version it was for
[05:19] <bazz> i couldn't find anything newer though :)
[05:22] <marcustomlinson> hmmm, yeah, not sure if that is explained anywhere on the website
[05:24] <bazz> hrmm, now i can't update anything because / is mounted read only.  can i just remount it rw?
[05:25] <marcustomlinson> bazz: exit adb, then run "phablet-config writable-image" with the phone plugged in
[05:25] <marcustomlinson> bazz: this is explained in: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
[05:26] <bazz> marcustomlinson: i don't run ubuntu on my laptop, so i haven't installed phablet-config...
[05:26] <bazz> ahh, nm, i found where i can get it though :)
[05:28] <bazz> marcustomlinson: arg, lots of dependencies.  is there a way to enable writable without phablet-tools or do i have to install it?
[05:29] <marcustomlinson> bazz: let me see
[05:29] <bazz> marcustomlinson: thanks, i appreciate it
[05:36] <marcustomlinson> bazz: from adb shell do: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.canonical.PropertyService /com/canonical/PropertyService com.canonical.PropertyService.SetProperty string:writable boolean:true
[05:37] <bazz> cool, that did it, thanks :)
[05:38] <marcustomlinson> cool :)
[05:39] <bazz> so is that why enabling developer options requires setting a passcode?
[05:39] <marcustomlinson> yes
[05:44] <bazz> makes sense for the first time, but then why can't i turn it back off and keep developer mode on.
[05:49] <marcustomlinson> bazz: possibly because ssh is autoconfigured with the same security. Kinda dangerous leaving yourself open to ssh attacks. Thats my guess
[05:50] <bazz> marcustomlinson: wouldn't ssh just take the password i set the first time?
[05:51] <marcustomlinson> bazz: yeah, but update if you change the password right? Removing the password is technically an update
[05:51] <bazz> marcustomlinson: ohh, so when i turn off the security it changes my password back to nothing?  i guess that makes sense then, although it's super annoying to have those tied together.  i hate having a pin to unlock my phone, but i want to mess around with adb/ssh etc
[05:52] <marcustomlinson> bazz: yeah, I'm with you there. I just set a really simple passcode 0000 or something
[05:54] <bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, heh, exactly what i do too.  which is like, almost worse, because now if i'm attacking something i know is an ubuntu phone i'm gonna try simple passcodes like that
[05:54] <marcustomlinson> bazz: hense the big warning image when setting to dev mode ;)
[05:55] <bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, good point.  anyway, so what happens if i enable dev mode, install ssh, then turn off lock screen security?  can i ssh in with no password?
[05:56] <marcustomlinson> bazz: that sounds like a fun project :)
[05:56] <marcustomlinson> bazz: haha, not sure, give it a try
[05:57] <bazz> marcustomlinson: will give it a go :)
[05:57] <marcustomlinson> bazz: no amount of policing can stop a guy shooting himself in the foot at home alone in his room
[05:59] <bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah for sure.  i just think tying those things together is a poor choice and will encourage foot shooting
[05:59] <marcustomlinson> bazz: right
[06:00] <marcustomlinson> well perhaps someone else on this channel has any thoughts ^
[06:05] <bazz> marcustomlinson: ahh, seems ssh is set to not allow password authentication :)
[06:06] <marcustomlinson> bazz: hence the passcode I suppose
[06:06] <marcustomlinson> bazz: so you can ssh in but can't screw around without the code
[06:07] <bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, kinda makes sense actually, temporarily use adb to set sshd up and running and put your public key there, and then use ssh after that
[07:07] <rainfyre> hey folks. i'm looking into installing ubuntu touch on my 2nd gen nexus 7 and i'm wondering if it's going to overwrite my existing twrp recovery
[07:40] <dholbach> good morning
[07:46] <rainfyre> morning
[08:19] <levd1> Hi there, any one interested in porting Ubuntu Touch to RK3288 development board ?
[09:20] <antoniut> hi guys
[09:20] <antoniut> do you know when the bq phone with ubuntu will be put to sale?
[09:21] <popey> antoniut: this week
[09:22] <popey> antoniut: follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when
[09:30] <antoniut> popye: thanks :)
[09:30] <antoniut> popey
[09:32] <uhhimhere> so hows the aquarius e4.5
[09:32] <mcphail> As #ubuntu-phone appears to be a closed channel, is this the correct place to lurk for announcements about sales of the BQ device?
[09:32] <popey> follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when
[09:33] <popey> mcphail: #ubuntu-phone should redirect here
[09:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day! :-D
[09:33] <mcphail> popey: thanks - unfortunately twitter is blocked at work so was hoping to use IRC instead ;)
[09:34] <popey> mcphail: Ok, we'll update the topic here
[09:34] <popey> once we have a link
[09:34] <mcphail> popey: you're a star
[09:35] <uhhimhere> why is ubuntu-phoine closed?
[09:37] <uhhimhere> but srsly whats the deal with the e4.5?
[09:37] <uhhimhere> has anybody tried it?
[09:38] <popey> uhhimhere: the channel redirects here, it's not closed
[09:38] <popey> uhhimhere: we redirected a bunch of channels here, rather than have too many channels
[09:38] <ogra_> uhhimhere, only 30 ppl have it in their hands yet ... til the first flash sale starts this week
[09:38] <uhhimhere> whats with this flash sale anyways?
[09:38] <uhhimhere> reminds me of the sega saturn "launch"
[09:39] <ogra_> most of them post on social media, you should be able to find videos etc
[09:39] <popey> It's a common method of selling new devices with chinese companies
[09:41] <mcphail> certainly a good way to build excitement about a product
[09:41] <ogra_> well ... it is more than marketing strategy :)
[09:41] <ogra_> for a small phone manufacturer the margin you earn on a phone isnt actually big
[09:42] <mcphail> sure - but this isn't a new device for BQ so the risks aren't so high in manufacturing
[09:42] <ogra_> if you have to pay 1€ per week as storage costs for devices you want to sell, thats a lot of money for them
[09:42] <ogra_> it is a different production
[09:42] <ogra_> (no android buttons on the glass for example)
[09:43] <mcphail> ogra_: interesting - didn't realise that
[09:43] <ogra_> so you only pre-produce a certain amount ...
[09:43] <uhhimhere> so is it ubuntu w/ libhybris
[09:43] <uhhimhere> or is it ubuntu ubuntu
[09:43] <ogra_> its a phone .... since you know what libhybris is i guess you can answer that yourself ;)
[09:44] <ogra_> there is no way to make HW work on a phone without binary blob drivers
[09:44] <uhhimhere> i can but id rather err on the side of optimism
[09:45] <ogra_> optimism that we developed free drivers for undocumented modem HW ?
[09:45] <ogra_> (or sensors, GPS, graphics ... make your pick)
[09:46] <ogra_> we arent better than jolla or firefoxOS in that regard, all of us need to use the drivers available
[09:47] <mcphail> uhhimhere: i think we're a few years away from open firmware for a popular phone. With the recent explosion in Linux-based mobile operating systems, that day might come
[09:47] <uhhimhere> yeah but since ubuntu OS aims to be a dockable system ; its going to be competing with the likes of intelHD so openess in alot more than baseband would come in handy
[09:47] <ogra_> but while jolla integrates them in their rootfs and uses hybris ... and friefox even wrapped their whole OS around them without using hybris, ubuntu phone boots directly into a clean ubuntu ... all android bits are inside an lxc container that gets started on demand during boot
[09:49] <ogra_> (you *could* turn it just off and run your phone as i.e. a webserver with a clean ubuntu installation)
[09:56] <Scooty-loo> Hey I'm new here. Just a quick question, will Bq aquaris e4.5 be able to flash ubuntu touch?
[09:57] <ogra_> i heard bq plans to release images for that, yes
[09:57] <ogra_> not sure when though ... i guess onbly after the first devices have been sold
[09:57] <Scooty-loo> Cool! Anymore details?
[09:58] <ogra_> nope, thats all i know
[09:58] <Scooty-loo> kay thanks, dropping back in after a while bye guys
[09:58] <Scooty-loo> And ladies
[09:59] <uhhimhere> will there be any vivante based ubuntu phones?
[10:00] <uhhimhere> would be cool to see ubuntu-touch running with etnaviv drivers on the gfx side
[10:00] <ogra_> convince vivante to port it ;)
[10:00] <ogra_> or make them ask canonical
[10:01] <ogra_> (or port it yourself)
[10:01] <uhhimhere> huh? port what
[10:01] <ogra_> ubuntu for phones ;)
[10:01] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/
[10:01] <uhhimhere> im confused
[10:01] <uhhimhere> they dont make phones
[10:01] <ogra_> ah
[10:01] <oSoMoN> hey rpadovani!
[10:03] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, unfortunately I'll not be able to join wed hangout, 'cause I do on wed afternoon laser surgery to eyes, so I think until saturay I'll not able to be at computer
[10:03] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, anyway tonight I try to do a first submit for setttings ui
[10:04] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, awesome, and don’t worry about missing the hangout, we can catch up later (I’ll be off on Thursday and Friday, which is why we moved the weekly catchup this week)
[10:04] <robertoper> Hi! I would like to try Unity8 on my desktop. And It worked one time in the past, but now It doesn't log in. It shows the LightDM but when I click on the login button it only shows the lightdm again with blank login window. Any idea?
[10:04] <ogra_> uhhimhere, well, while that would be a step forward you still wont get around using a modem on a phone ...
[10:04] <popey> robertoper: probably best asking in #ubuntu-desktop
[10:05] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, cool, thanks!
[10:05] <robertoper> popey: Ok, thanks
[10:14] <uhhimhere> ogra_, dont matter if i could dual boot
[10:14] <ogra_> dual boot ?
[10:14] <ogra_> how would that solve the closed driver issue
[10:14] <uhhimhere> ogra_, one factory image one not-factory image
[10:15] <ogra_> i still dont see how that helps
[10:15] <uhhimhere> one image specifically for desktop computing
[10:15] <ogra_> you wont be able to do anything with the phone without drivers
[10:15] <uhhimhere> that doesnt require RF specific drivers
[10:16] <ogra_> true ... but why would you use two images for that ?
[10:16] <uhhimhere> because its now a desktop-ish platform; therefore I can
[10:16] <ogra_> whats a desktop-ish platform ?
[10:16] <uhhimhere> what is a phone?
[10:17] <ogra_> (how would apt-get install be different on desktop vs phone)
[10:17] <ogra_> (and why would i care ... if i want a desktop experience i could just install it, no need for an extra image)
[10:18] <uhhimhere> im talking about the hardware not the OS
[10:18] <ogra_> now i lost you i think ... i thought we talk aboout phone hardware
[10:19] <ogra_> running ubuntu ...
[10:19] <uhhimhere> komodo dragons!
[10:31] <elimisteve> Hi everyone. I'm in the US and am interested in running Ubuntu Touch on a phone. Do you think buying a used Nexus 4 is my best bet, or would you recommend waiting for the new phones coming out?
[10:31] <elimisteve> the Nexus 4 has similar specs to the Aquaris
[10:32] <elimisteve> sounds like whatever Meizu releases will have better specs
[10:32] <ogra_> the nexus4 definitely has higher specs than the aquaris ;)
[10:32] <elimisteve> double the RAM is the big one
[10:33] <elimisteve> but the battery, screen size, and processor speed are very similar
[10:33] <ogra_> more performant CPUs is the other ;)
[10:33] <ogra_> and it has a way higher res display ...
[10:33] <ogra_> ... yet ... ubuntu performs a lot better on the bq
[10:33] <ogra_> :)
[10:33] <elimisteve> the video I saw made it look like there was similar performance between the Aquaris and the Nexus 4
[10:34] <elimisteve> the Nexus 4 will run on US networks, but I'll probably just tether to my Nexus 5 anyway, and any of these phones will support wifi, so having 3G or 4G working isn't much of a concern
[10:35] <ogra_> there are images for the nexus5 by the community
[10:35] <elimisteve> Does it seem like it'll be feasible to get an Ubuntu phone -- either the BQ one or the Meizu one -- in the US within the next 3 months?
[10:35] <ogra_> iirc even multirom ones
[10:35] <elimisteve> ogra_: I looked into the Nexus 5 image a few months ago and it sounded too buggy to be a daily driver yet
[10:35] <ogra_> i'm not sure about the distribution to US, the meizu will support is frequencies though
[10:36] <ogra_> the bq doesnt, you will be bound to edge
[10:36] <Rubesman> i use it on my nexus 4 as daily driver
[10:36] <elimisteve> Rubesman: interesting, even without 4G?
[10:36] <ogra_> yeah, the N4 should run fine ... there is just not as much optimization of the HW stack as there is in the bq
[10:36] <elimisteve> ogra_: think the Meizu will support US frequencies? I hadn't heard anything fully confirmed about their device
[10:37] <ogra_> i'm pretty sure it will
[10:37] <svij> the Meizu one will be the MX4 running ubuntu
[10:37] <elimisteve> svij: isn't that still a rumor at this stage? A year ago it looked like the MX3 would be running Ubuntu
[10:37] <ogra_> but i cant tell you if/when there will be US distribution channels ...
[10:37] <elimisteve> and some has speculated that the M1 Note will run Ubuntu
[10:38] <ogra_> a lot has been speculated :)
[10:38] <elimisteve> ogra_: the Nexus 4 has been the only officially-supported phone to run Ubuntu for a long time. Are you sure it's not as optimized as the Aquaris?
[10:38] <ogra_> elimisteve, yes
[10:38] <elimisteve> ogra_: a lot has, which is why I'm trying to figure out what's confirmed
[10:39] <svij> elimisteve: well cristian parrino and jane silber told me that
[10:39] <svij> that it is the MX4
[10:39] <elimisteve> svij: do you know if the MX4 is confirmed? I saw a nicely-made/almost-official-looking video made of the MX4 running Ubuntu
[10:39] <elimisteve> well they would know :-)
[10:39] <svij> exactly
[10:39] <elimisteve> they said that recently?
[10:40] <svij> on fridays ubuntu phone launch event, yes
[10:40] <ogra_> the only officially confirmed thing is the aquaris ... the semi official thing is what svij told you :)
[10:40] <elimisteve> okay :-D thanks
[10:40] <elimisteve> hmmm
[10:40] <svij> they even told that during an interview with me, which I will publish soon
[10:41] <elimisteve> Rubesman: how do you like your N4 running Ubuntu Touch?
[10:41] <ogra_> but again, you might need someone in europe to buy it for you if you want it urgently ... it might still take a while for US distribution
[10:41] <elimisteve> svij: excellent, thanks. Do you havea Twitter feed or blog where you will announce this?
[10:41] <svij> elimisteve: @svijee on twitter, svij.org or just planet.ubuntu.com
[10:41] <elimisteve> ogra_: I have a friend in London who may be able to buy it for me...
[10:41] <elimisteve> svij: great thank you
[10:41] <ogra_> elimisteve, cool
[10:42] <elimisteve> hmm, decisions decisions
[10:42] <elimisteve> sounds like the Meizu phone will be announced within the next month or so, yes?
[10:42] <svij> (they also told me, that the release for US is planned hopefully for july)
[10:42] <svij> elimisteve: MWC
[10:42] <elimisteve> I think I looked up the MWC dates and it's in a month or so
[10:43] <elimisteve> svij: you think the US release is that soon?! For the MX4?
[10:43] <Rubesman> does somebody know if were likely to get the new today and nearby scopes on the nexus 4?
[10:43] <ogra_> well, selling the bq in the US wouldnt make much sense ;)
[10:43] <ogra_> Rubesman, perhaps cwayne can tell you ... he is in a US timezone though, you might need to wait
[10:44] <Rubesman> thanks!
[10:44] <svij> elimisteve: not sure if its the mx4, need to listen to that interview again
[10:44] <ogra_> if bq releases them i doubt they wil do it before the first devices are sold though
[10:44] <elimisteve> Rubesman: on an Ubuntu On Air episode I saw a week or so ago, they talked about sending out OTA updates to all Ubuntu phones every 4 weeks
[10:45] <ogra_> elimisteve, yep, thats the plan
[10:45] <elimisteve> every other 2-week release
[10:45] <ogra_> ubuntu fo phones is a truely rolling release
[10:46] <ogra_> the frequency of releases only depends on the speed that QA can be done
[10:46] <Rubesman> i think thats the best thing to do with a mobile operating system
[10:47] <elimisteve> ogra_: think the Ubuntu desktop will soon be a rolling release?
[10:47] <elimisteve> that's also rumored
[10:47] <ogra_> i truely hope so
[10:48] <ogra_> once the phone and desktop use the same underlying technology
[10:48] <mcphail> Im not so sure about rolling release for phones. Frequent updates (with lots of QA) are fine, but rolling release with the potential for breakage is not so fine
[10:48] <Scooty-loo> cell phones too much random hardware
[10:49] <Rubesman> hm maybe
[10:50] <ogra_> mcphail, if your QA is good there is no breakage
[10:50] <Scooty-loo> So another question, currently commercially available ubuntu touch, can ones install command line/daemon stuffs from it's repo? Like lighttpd, screen, nano etc.
[10:50] <Rubesman> you have to do a rather conservative and restrictive RR
[10:50] <ogra_> yes
[10:51] <mcphail> ogra_: no QA is close to perfect. We've had a few occasionas of brokX on the desktop release. Broken phone is much more serious
[10:51] <mcphail> *broken
[10:51] <Scooty-loo> sounds cool, less hassle to deploy those on android
[10:51] <ogra_> it means that you review and test every new line of code *before* it even enters the image
[10:51] <Rubesman> scooty: should be possible would think
[10:51] <ogra_> then again in context of the image
[10:52] <ogra_> and then again in context of alkl other changes that land in the same image
[10:52] <ogra_> if oyu pass these tests it is releasable
[10:52] <mcphail> ogra_: I admire your optimism!
[10:52] <ogra_> adn indeed each new functionality can only land if a proper test comes alongside
[10:52] <ogra_> mcphail, i'm describing what we do :)
[10:53] <ogra_> this is 100% different from how the desktop is produced
[10:53] <mcphail> ogra_: I don't doubt your process, but I think your faith in testing is misplaced. Tests never cover every situation.
[10:54] <ogra_> no, they dont
[10:54] <ogra_> which is why you have step-wise-miletones and dogfooders
[10:54] <elimisteve> ogra_: relying on QA isn't good enough; don't want to brick 10,000 phones in a day. Transactional updates sound perfect and much-needed
[10:54] <ogra_> right
[10:54] <ogra_> snappy is the next step :)
[10:54] <elimisteve> I sure hope so
[10:55] <elimisteve> that's awesome
[10:55] <mcphail> ogra_: i think a 2 weekly schedule might just work. OTOH, the cyanogenmod chaps manage to break android with alarming frequency with a 4-weekly release
[10:56] <ogra_> we have a 2 weekly schedule for milestones ... based on daily builds ... one of these 2 werekly milestones becomes the monthly release
[10:56] <ogra_> (and at some point we have snappy with rollback and transactional updates that will cover for any possible issue that might slip throuh)
[10:57] <svij> that sounds cool
[10:57] <mcphail> yes - snappy should be great
[10:57] <svij> and snappy and ubuntu phone are merging in some kind of way, right?
[10:58] <Rubesman> ah forgot to answer elimisteve: I love ubuntu on my n4. It gets almost everything done quietly. Everything works rather smoothly
[10:58] <ogra_> well, snappy is an evolution of the current phone technology, yes, the plan is to merge it back in
[10:58] <elimisteve> Rubesman: that's great. What do you think is the single biggest thing Ubuntu Touch is missing right now?
[10:58] <elimisteve> I want encrypted SMS and IMing
[10:58]  * ogra_ whispers whatsapp :P
[10:59] <Rubesman> for me it would be textsecure
[10:59] <elimisteve> sounds like neither exist right now (encrypted SMS nor IMing)
[10:59] <ogra_> (not that i ever used it, but thats the biggest request we get)
[10:59] <elimisteve> obviously https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/ is awesome
[10:59] <elimisteve> any idea if that's fully rolled out?
[10:59] <ogra_> elimisteve, on the auqaris telegram is preinstalled
[11:00] <Rubesman> yeah but telegram should be doing encrypted texting right?
[11:00] <elimisteve> if I can use WhatsApp and know my messages are encrypted, I'm happy
[11:00] <ogra_> right
[11:00] <Rubesman> i dont like the whatsapp thing
[11:00] <Rubesman> got out of that one or two years ago
[11:01] <elimisteve> Rubesman: why?
[11:01] <Rubesman> even if whispersystems teams up with them
[11:01] <Rubesman> its still closed source
[11:01] <rubenlagus> elimisteve, how can u know the messages are encrypted?
[11:02] <popey> https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/565103224265637889
[11:03] <popey> :D
[11:03] <Rubesman> its just not my idea of encryption, security and so on
[11:03] <Stskeeps> good luck!
[11:03]  * mcphail hopes for a non-twitter link he can access at work...
[11:03] <popey> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
[11:04] <popey> there you go
[11:04] <mcphail> ta!
[11:04] <popey> np
[11:04] <svij> "We're excited to announce that limited Ubuntu phones will be available to buy between 9am - 6pm (CET) tomorrow via @bqreaders #ubuntuphone"
[11:04] <elimisteve> rubenlagus: you can try sniffing your own traffic to see if your messages are encrypted. How is this different from any other app? Although... WhatsApp is closed source, huh :-\
[11:05] <elimisteve> popey: thank you!
[11:05] <popey> \o/ telegram
[11:06] <elimisteve> "
[11:06] <elimisteve> Ubuntu Store is growing every day. Although apps like WhatsApp, Google+ or Candy Crush aren´t here yet, you get many others such as Telegram, HERE Maps, Cut the Rope and web apps like Facebook and Twitter.
[11:06] <rubenlagus> It would be better (imo) if I could check in sources that nothing is sent "undercover"... That's why I prefer Telegram
[11:06] <elimisteve> interesting salespitch...
[11:06] <Rubesman> is it really growing?
[11:07] <popey> yes
[11:07] <elimisteve> rubenlagus: Telegram's crypto hasn't been really vetted has it? Lots of criticisms of its competition thing where they'll pay people who find vulnerabilities
[11:07] <popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png
[11:07] <popey> ^ growing :)
[11:08] <Rubesman> seams more like plus one or two apps a week
[11:08] <Rubesman> not my idea of growing
[11:08] <ybon> we more and more need the "last apps" feed ;)
[11:08] <popey> ybon: seen https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps ?
[11:08] <elimisteve> popey: in what area do you think is Ubuntu Touch most deficient, app-wise? And which apps do you think are needed that you fear won't be released for a while?  In short, what's important and not being done?
[11:08] <popey> has a "sort by newest first" option
[11:08] <ogra_> svij, lol (G+)
[11:09] <popey> elimisteve: games games games
[11:09] <svij> ogra_: couldn't resist ;)
[11:09] <ybon> popey: han, no, never seen that, very nice, thanks :)
[11:09] <popey> np
[11:09] <popey> svij: nice!
[11:09] <ogra_> yeah, if enough people re-share it your stream looks like a website from the 90s
[11:10] <svij> haha
[11:10] <ogra_> :)
[11:10] <elimisteve> popey: I'm a Go developer who doesn't like games :-). What else is missing? Communications? Productivity? Seems like music is well-covered...
[11:10] <rubenlagus> elimisteve, I like that way of "test" encryption. People use to work harder when there is a price. Even though, during last context, noone was able to break it
[11:10] <Scooty-loo> sounds like there are enough apps already to switch over from iPhone already, but might get a second hand android e4.5 in the mean time if the image is released
[11:10] <Rubesman> elimisteve: what i really really dont like besides not having textsecure is the rather barebone web browser
[11:11] <Rubesman> is there a plan for rolling out firefox or chrome (-ium)
[11:11] <elimisteve> Rubesman: I heard a positive comment about the browser before. Is it fast but not full-featured enough? What's missing?
[11:11] <elimisteve> running FF or Chromium -- open source only! -- would rock
[11:11] <elimisteve> Rubesman: I understand that it's a basic WebKit-based browser
[11:12] <ogra_> no, it isnt
[11:12] <Rubesman> elimisteve: yeah fast but no custom search engine afaik, no adblock functionality, ...
[11:12] <ogra_> it uses our own engine ... called oxide, based on blink
[11:12] <mcphail> presumably you can edit /etc/hosts for adblocking?
[11:13] <ogra_> (way way faster than any webkit solution)
[11:13] <elimisteve> ogra_: I dug around in https://launchpad.net/webbrowser-app and read something about webkit, I believe
[11:13] <Scooty-loo> ogra:oh my yet another fork
[11:13] <Rubesman> how to change standard search engine?
[11:13] <ogra_> elimisteve, it started on webkit 2 years ago ... probably there are still fragments
[11:13] <popey> elimisteve: I'd also like to see some frameworks ported.
[11:13] <elimisteve> popey: what kinds of frameworks?
[11:13] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, fork ? its development from scratch
[11:14] <popey> elimisteve: rather than individual apps, port frameworks (e.g. like kivy, love [when talking about games specifically]) so others can port their games easily
[11:14] <elimisteve> I see
[11:14] <elimisteve> think there will be Unity3D support any time soon?
[11:14] <Scooty-loo> ogra_:I mean the web engine
[11:14] <popey> thats my personal opinion anyway
[11:14] <elimisteve> I assume not
[11:14] <mcphail> popey: does it have SDL2?
[11:14] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, yeah, me too
[11:14] <Scooty-loo> ogra_:hmm kay
[11:14] <popey> mcphail: yes, sdl2 supports mir
[11:15] <mcphail> cool - my pong game is going stright on my phone when i get it!
[11:15] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, it uses blink as a base and adds bits on top, i doubt anyone else does something like that or uses blink at all (well, except google)
[11:15] <Rubesman> yay! pong rocks!
[11:16] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: So the blink part could be updated independently
[11:16] <elimisteve> popey: sounds like there aren't very many scopes yet. I hope they get leveraged to great effect so that people feel like Ubuntu Touch has something unique and valuable
[11:16] <elimisteve> ogra_: Opera uses Blink now, or at least they said they would be
[11:17] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, oxide could ... yes
[11:17] <Rubesman> yeah scopes have great potential i think
[11:17] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, if you update blink you indeed have to re-build the whole engine :)
[11:17] <Rubesman> got used to using them already but id love to get the today scope
[11:17] <mcphail> I'm very keen to hack for this OS, but until I get my hands on a device I don't really understand the best approach
[11:18] <ogra_> mcphail, on what level do you want to hack on it ?
[11:18] <Scooty-loo> ogra: got the idea, thanks
[11:18] <Rubesman> how difficult would it be to develop scopes? im not really into that stuff but open to learning it
[11:18] <popey> Rubesman: http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277 "Create an Ubuntu Scope in minutes"
[11:18] <elimisteve> mcphail: same here. Been looking at Go + QML, and it's cool and impressive (thank you niemeyer ), but I need to buy a Nexus 4 or something so I can spot shortcomings for myself and get excited about filling in gaps and hopefully genuinely innovating
[11:18] <davidcalle> Rubesman, there is a pretty easy path right now, but limited to a certain type of scopes : http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277
[11:19] <mcphail> ogra_: that's the thing: whether to write "apps" or not. I'm not sure how these "scopes" work yet and whether that approacgh is better
[11:19] <Rubesman> thanks!
[11:19] <ogra_> mcphail, read the link popey posted :)
[11:20] <elimisteve> ogra_: popey I've installed ubuntu-sdk and an emulator. Is there full OS emulation, or do we just run individual apps?
[11:20] <popey> both
[11:20] <davidcalle> Rubesman, if you want to dive in further : take a look at this tutorial (even if you don't know C++, it covers the full process) https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/write-a-json-scope-in-cpp/
[11:20] <ogra_> mcphail, thats the easy way ... you could indeed do plain C++ development if you like
[11:20] <elimisteve> if the whole OS image is the same in the emulator as it is on physical devices, then mcphail and I can learn a ton in the emulator before we have devices
[11:20] <Rubesman> many thanks again!
[11:21] <mcphail> ogra_: the development process isn't the hurdle - I just haven't got the concept of what scopes actually _do_ yet. Until I get a device to play with I'm a bit stuck
[11:21] <cyberjunkie> hey all
[11:21] <Rubesman> again, get your hands on a nexus 4
[11:21] <elimisteve> mcphail: sounds like we can run the full OS in the emulator!
[11:22] <mcphail> elimisteve: have you used the emulator? Does it run better than the android one?
[11:22] <Rubesman> should be pretty cheap to by second hand right now
[11:22] <davidcalle> mcphail, if you are running 14.10 or 15.04, you can install unity-scopes-tool to try some of the new scopes (without a full blown emulator, just the scopes part)
[11:22] <ogra_> mcphail, nope, it doesnt
[11:23] <mcphail> davidcalle: do i need to be running unity-8 for that? just crashes on my box
[11:23] <elimisteve> Rubesman: ~$125-160 USD for a used Nexus 4 where I am (California)
[11:23] <davidcalle> mcphail, nope works well under unity (probably other desktops too)
[11:24] <mcphail> davidcalle: ok - will check that out when I'm back home tomorrow
[11:24] <mcphail> davidcalle: thanks
[11:24] <davidcalle> mcphail, np
[11:24] <Rubesman> got mine for 120 € about a year ago, so i guessed it wouldve decreased in price
[11:27] <Rubesman> scopecreator should be loaded to the AUR to get arch users more involved id think, they seem to be rather active, even if theyre not so into the ubuntu concept
[11:27] <elimisteve> scopecreator looks amazing
[11:28] <Rubesman> ellimisteve: yep, ill be trying that thing i think
[11:30] <elimisteve> popey: I've been thinking how Ubuntu Touch can effectively compete against Android, and was wondering if there are effective ways to run Ubuntu desktop apps on the phone, so that, just like with Scopes, we don't _need_ hundreds of thousands of new apps to be created. And if using existing GUIs isn't possible, is it possible to auto-generate them, or automatically port them somehow?
[11:31] <elimisteve> I'm a programmer but don't understand the lay of the land as far as X/Mir/Wayland/Unity 7/Unity 8 and how all that affects which GUIs can run where
[11:31] <popey> in theory you can, with xmir
[11:31] <popey> willcooke made a funky video showing it I think
[11:31] <elimisteve> willcooke: you ran Ubuntu desktop apps on Ubuntu Touch?
[11:33] <elimisteve> is there a major performance hit when running xmir on Ubuntu Touch? Why do you say "in theory" :-)
[11:33] <elimisteve> not a good idea for some reason?
[11:33] <mcphail> elimisteve: there are a few rough edges with conventional ubuntu desktop applications (dialog boxes extending over edges of small screens etc) which are irritating on desktop but would be awful on a phone.
[11:33] <elimisteve> "XMir has been around for a while to run legacy X applications atop Mir"
[11:33] <popey> in theory because we dont ship xmir by default
[11:34] <ogra_> you could ship it inside your click package ...
[11:34] <elimisteve> mcphail: I know there would be some usability issues. Like small buttons that could be feasibly clicked but not tapped
[11:34] <mcphail> elimisteve: and sliders...
[11:34] <ogra_> not sure if apparmor lets you run it then though
[11:35] <elimisteve> "Will Cooke, the Ubuntu Desktop Engineering Manager at Canonical, posted to his Google+ page today about the progress in running X apps on Ubuntu Phone." https://plus.google.com/u/0/+WillCooke/posts/eNUArFBzh3W
[11:36] <elimisteve> "we're doing a lot of work in Gtk to allow it to work on Mir natively, so no need for Xmir (not quite there yet)"
[11:36] <elimisteve> hmmm
[11:36] <mcphail> Is this channel logged with the other #ubuntu-* channels? Lots of links I need to check out tomorrow
[11:36] <ogra_> elimisteve, right, Qt an GTK will work natively
[11:36] <popey> yes
[11:36] <ogra_> mcphail, yes, itz is
[11:36] <elimisteve> popey: so it's possible to make GTK and Qt run on Mir natively, and not have to change every individual GTK/Qt-using desktop Ubuntu app so that it can run on Ubuntu Touch?
[11:36] <mcphail> thanks
[11:37] <ogra_> elimisteve, exactly ...
[11:37] <elimisteve> ogra_: sweet!
[11:37] <ogra_> elimisteve, XMir is for the rest of applications
[11:37] <ogra_> so that you can still run xfig and xpdf :)
[11:38] <ogra_> (and libreoffice or firefox)
[11:38] <popey> xeyes!
[11:38] <elimisteve> ah okay
[11:38] <ogra_> not to forget the always importan xeyes indeed
[11:38] <ogra_> and xteddy !
[11:38] <elimisteve> ogra_: do you think XMir + Firefox + MX4 would be performant enough to use?
[11:38] <ogra_> elimisteve, yes, but not a pleasure :)
[11:39] <elimisteve> due to speed or some other factor?
[11:39] <ogra_> due to needing a looking glass for finding window borders etc
[11:39] <mcphail> elimisteve: firefox on arm is slow and really needs a couple of GB of RAm to get going
[11:39] <ogra_> :)
[11:39] <ogra_> mcphail, i used firefox on my pandaboard just fine for a while
[11:39] <elimisteve> ha, that's OK though; full-screen is fine
[11:39] <ogra_> its not that slow
[11:40] <mcphail> ogra_: I've never been so lucky
[11:40] <mcphail> ogra_: i like the mobile browser on android, though
[11:40] <ogra_> i love the ubuntu browser on ubuntu :)
[11:41] <elimisteve> ha
[11:41]  * mcphail would love to try it :)
[11:41] <ogra_> stillö has some UI bits that could be solved better, but its fast and slim
[11:41] <Riddell> would anyone have pointers on how to remix the ubuntu touch images like is done on this server? http://system-image.tasemnice.eu
[11:41] <ogra_> Riddell, that server just uses the rootfs from the ubuntu one
[11:42] <ogra_> the only thing it "remixes" is the device tarball
[11:42] <ogra_> the rest is just mirrored and re-signed
[11:42] <Riddell> right, and for a kubuntu image I want to take the tasemnice remixed device tar and remix the rootfs
[11:42] <ogra_> Riddell, you want to talk to Tassadar (if he shows up, i have seen him rarely around recently) ... he runs that server
[11:43] <ogra_> heh, thats a remix remix :)
[11:43] <elimisteve> meta ftw
[11:43] <Riddell> am I right in thinking ubuntu-system-image is used to setup the files on the system-image server?
[11:44] <ogra_> Riddell, so i guess you want to simply do the same he does (there was a blog post how he set up the server) and just pull in a different rootfs tarball
[11:44] <ogra_> right
[11:44] <elimisteve> I looked around and couldn't find any mention of a voice-to-text feature on Ubuntu Touch
[11:44] <elimisteve> ogra_: is the UT keyboard any good? No voice input though yet, right?
[11:45] <ogra_> if a new tarball shows up at the source location, it pulls that in, unpacks it, diffs it against the last images and packages that up
[11:45] <ogra_> elimisteve, yeah, no voice yet, the keyboard is fine imho
[11:46] <elimisteve> ogra_: anyone tried copying Swype? SwiftKey?
[11:46] <ogra_> i dont think so ... and due to the nature of click apps it would be hard to push to the store atm
[11:47] <elimisteve> push keyboard apps to the store?
[11:47] <popey> swype is based off maliit isn't it?
[11:47] <popey> yeah, apps are confined.
[11:47] <ogra_> click apps are not allowed to replace system components and run in a confined environment
[11:47] <popey> some app categories haven't been worked out uet
[11:47] <popey> *yet
[11:47] <ogra_> right
[11:47] <elimisteve> popey: worked out as far as security/permissions?
[11:47] <elimisteve> ogra_: yeah I was reading about AppArmor and app confinement
[11:47] <Elleo> elimisteve: saidinesh5 is working on an open source swype implementation with a maliit plugin
[11:48] <ogra_> you could easily create an unconfined click package ... but thatz wouldnt be allowed into the store ... you would have to sideload it
[11:48] <elimisteve> ogra_: good to know, thanks
[11:49] <mcphail> ogra_: any plans to change that - with whatever union/overlayfs is currently fashionable, for example?
[11:49] <elimisteve> Elleo: very cool. saidinesh5: think your Swype clone keyboard app be done within the next, say, 6 months?
[11:49] <saidinesh5> elimisteve: i hope so. the engine part is almost over. the maliit part is left
[11:50] <elimisteve> saidinesh5: very cool
[11:50] <Riddell> ogra_: do you know where Vojtech Bocek's blog post is? I can't find his blog
[11:50] <ogra_> mcphail, i doubt there will ever be direct access to anything on the phone ... you will have to go through interfaces ... not all of them are defined yyet
[11:50] <saidinesh5> obligatory link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o0g6Ks6sg1Y :P
[11:51] <elimisteve> Riddell: https://tasssadar.github.io/ ?
[11:51] <elimisteve> ogra_: using interfaces sounds clean and secure
[11:51] <ogra_> elimisteve, right
[11:52] <elimisteve> Is it possible to set new default apps for, say, web browsing?
[11:52] <elimisteve> Where can I read about the UT intent system, or whatever it uses?
[11:53] <elimisteve> MultiROM is a multi-boot solution for several devices, I officially support Nexus 7 2012 & 2013, Nexus 4 and Nexus 5
[11:53] <elimisteve> "It can boot any Android ROM as well as other systems like Ubuntu Touch, once they are ported to that device."
[11:53] <elimisteve> awesome. Anyone here tried using Android 4.4 + MultiROM + Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 5?
[11:54] <Elleo> elimisteve: I think there's quite a few people using multirom and ubuntu touch on nexus 5s (not sure about specific android versions)
[11:55] <Elleo> elimisteve: one thing to be aware of that the nexus 5 image is a community port, and while it's probably the best community port it does have some issues with hardware support (e.g. I don't think it handles deep sleep at the moment, so battery life isn't great)
[11:59] <saidinesh5> elimisteve: just don't do apt-get upgrade on a multirom
[11:59] <saidinesh5> well apt-get is a little weird on multirom, because if it tries to update /boot/ your device is bricked
[12:00] <ogra_> Riddell, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg06721.html
[12:00] <Scooty-loo> saidinesh5:does mount ro helps?
[12:00] <seb128> how does an application get to call something when focussed out?
[12:01] <Riddell> ogra_: ooh lovely thanks
[12:01] <elimisteve> Elleo: thanks. I've read that bluetooth isn't supported either on the Nexus 5, but that may be old info
[12:01] <saidinesh5> by default it is mount ro afaik. you can do apt-get update only if  you enable the developer mode
[12:02] <Scooty-loo> sounds like stick to a single kernel is way safer. Talking about that, 'how android' still is ubuntu touch?
[12:02] <ogra_> Riddell, iirc there were two more mails from him on the ML one with more detailed setup info later
[12:03] <Elleo> seb128: do you mean call something as it loses focus? if so you can connect to a chance in Qt.active
[12:03] <Scooty-loo> Been a while looking into the details since I don't have any nexus devices, does ubuntu touch still use android style boot image as a standard?
[12:03] <Elleo> seb128: but you only have a couple of seconds to do something in before being suspended
[12:04] <seb128> Elleo, is that being called as well if somebody close the application for the switcher?
[12:04] <Elleo> seb128: I'm not sure
[12:05] <seb128> Elleo, I'm going to try the Qt.active thing, thanks
[12:05] <seb128> Elleo, do you know if we have an example of code doing that?
[12:05] <muyiscoi> I can't seem to get bluetooth to work on my nexus 4.
[12:05] <muyiscoi> When
[12:06] <muyiscoi> When I toggle the switch from the notification panel, it goes back off on its own
[12:06] <muyiscoi> I'm on Ubuntu 14.10 (r15)
[12:06] <Elleo> seb128: I can write an example quickly, I think there's a few apps that monitor it as well (like machines vs machines for switching off music, etc.)
[12:07] <seb128> Elleo, don't bother, I think I can figure it out, thanks!
[12:07] <Elleo> seb128: okay, cool
[12:08] <popey> muyiscoi: when you toggle it, leave it for a moment, it may toggle back off then on again
[12:08] <Elleo> seb128: sorry, that should be Qt.application.active not Qt.active
[12:09] <elimisteve> saidinesh5: apt-get update? or do you mean upgrade? mean upgrade?
[12:09] <saidinesh5> upgrade itself. basically any update to the kernel /grub etc...
[12:10] <saidinesh5> anything that touches the /boot/ partition
[12:11] <ogra_> you should only use apt if you dont plan to actually use the phone as a phone ...
[12:12] <ogra_> or writable-mode rather
[12:13] <muyiscoi> @popey it came on after I put the phone off and on. Restarting the phone didn't do anything. Had to power off and on
[12:13] <Scooty-loo> ogra: interesting, are security updates delivered in another way?
[12:14] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, yes, as image diffs ... as soon as you switch to apt or writable mode image diffs will break whatever you do ... apt upgrades will break as well at some point
[12:15] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: oh my, sounds nasty
[12:15] <ogra_> apt and writable mode is fine if you want to work on the plumbing layer of the phone or do some "special" stuff (someone here runs a tomcat server on an N4 for their company) ;)
[12:16] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: tomcat jre arm and floating point programs
[12:16] <ogra_> but then you cant count on being able to upgrade anymore
[12:17] <mcphail> ogra_: it would be great if you could union-mount a writable layer over the base layer, thereby allowing binary diffs of the stock image but preserving the ability to apt-get over the top
[12:17] <ogra_> if you apply the image diff on top of a writeble image your apt database gets overwritten with an empty one from the diff
[12:18] <ogra_> mcphail, then you lose control about what is writable (which would be fine, apparmor could handle that with a complex config) ... and it makes it really hard to port since your kernel must support whatever unionfs implementation is in use
[12:18] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: why do apt-get breaks eventually when ones only update non boot related packages? Like locking up boot related packages
[12:18] <ogra_> that latter bit is quite a showstopper with the kind of kernels you find on a phone
[12:19] <mcphail> ogra_: but the kernel layer wouldn't have to change from stock, and whatever union/overlayfs is supported would provide the writable layer over /usr and /etc
[12:20] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, to unpack a deb on upgrade, dpkg needs to create hard links ... the wriable bits in the image are all bind mounts into a writable space on disk (different partition) ... hardlinks do not work across partition boundaries ... so your unpack fails
[12:21] <ogra_> this will happen to you the first time an installed package that uses any writable bits gets upgraded
[12:21] <ogra_> so with luck you can use apt-get upgrade 10 times ... the 11th one fails because there is such a package in the update
[12:22] <elimisteve> ogra_: but apt-get update and installing other packages is fine, right? Are you just saying that kernel upgrades are the dangerous part?
[12:22] <ogra_> the current setup makes it easy for you to hack ... but in "hack mode" it isnt really suited for using it under the original purpose (as a phone)
[12:22] <mcphail> :)
[12:22] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: hmm...but, like the mediatek chip BQ is shipping out, they are not too happy with sources. Would it be a bit more time consuming if one update requires BQ doing them job...and how hard is it to put everything back to a single partition?
[12:23] <ogra_> elimisteve, you can indeed install other packages, but if you would do an image upgrade your apt db is wiped ... the package manager wouldnt know about the packages you installed anymore
[12:24] <ogra_> and if you use apt for upgrading it will eventually break for the above reasons
[12:24] <elimisteve> kk thanks
[12:24] <ogra_> so technically you lose the ability to upgrade by making the system writable
[12:24] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: I mean, mtk is not happy with their sources most of the time, so far only more open to Android ONE
[12:24] <ogra_> Riddell, ^^^ there is Tassadar :)
[12:25] <mcphail> ogra_: sounds as if the first problem could be solved with an incron job to back up the apt db on changes and a script to restore after image upgrade
[12:25] <Scooty-loo> mcphail: but new image ships with new packages ie. edited database
[12:26] <mcphail> Scooty-loo: that sounds like a poor design decision
[12:26] <svij> is it known, that ubuntu phone displays one WLAN-SSID twice, if it is running on two different channels?
[12:26] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: but again, why even ship it with apt, when it's only used for cooking the image. IMO, apt should be staying on the user data partition
[12:27] <ogra_> mcphail, you could "solve" it in tons of hacky ways ... point is that ubuntu phone is not designed for apt use ... it is a nice extra feature for developers and hackers though
[12:27] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, apt will go away eventually ... snappy doesnt ship apt or dpkg
[12:28] <mcphail> ogra_: fair enough
[12:28] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: ugh, then it's more like an android phone isn't it...
[12:28] <ogra_> not really :)
[12:29] <ogra_> it will just use the next generation package manager then :)
[12:29] <ogra_> you do snappy install libreoffice ... instead of apt-get install libreoffice
[12:29] <mcphail> ogra_: I had imagined the setup would be more like the desktop live CDs where you had a base image and a union-mounted FS which could be hacked and upgrade on top
[12:29] <ogra_> and wont need to make anything writable at all
[12:29] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: Sorry but it's the first time I heard about it, is there a documentation about snappy?
[12:29] <ogra_> mcphail, as i said, that would mean heavy kernel patching
[12:30] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, sure, there is even an irc channel next door ;)
[12:30] <ogra_> #snappy
[12:30] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: got it, thanks
[12:31] <ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/
[12:31] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: cheers
[12:31] <elimisteve> ogra_: how long you think till the phone uses snappy?
[12:32] <mcphail> ogra_: if i was, say, writing a game in C on SDL, and needed a particular library as a dependency would that have to be statically linked or can snappy provide the shared libraries?
[12:32] <ogra_> elimisteve, no idea ... we will start porting it soon, but hard to say how long that takes
[12:32] <ogra_> mcphail, either :)
[12:32] <ogra_> mcphail, up to you ... you can either link statically or ship the libs inside your snap package
[12:33] <mcphail> ogra_: OK - so each game would ship with a whole runtime within the package? Does snappy perform deduplication to save space?
[12:34] <ogra_> snappy allows frameworks so you could indeed have your python based snap just use the python framework
[12:34] <ogra_> (and ship only the additionally needed python plugins in your package)
[12:35] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: sounds like something would make debian admins confused for a moment when switching on a random day tho ha
[12:35] <ogra_> nah
[12:35] <mcphail> Scooty-loo: ogra_: yes - just a different way of working. I like the idea of containers etc
[12:35] <ogra_> the cool thing about snaps is that you can put *anything* insdie them ... it could be a whole OS install running in a container
[12:36] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: I mean like me, who never heard of snappy, decided to give ubuntu a test run on a random day
[12:36] <ogra_> so effectively that makes it a lot easier for admins
[12:36] <ogra_> snappy install my-webmail-server
[12:36] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: Hey I thought ubuntu runs debian *confus*
[12:36] <uhhimhere> hows that any diff from apt-get
[12:36] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: nah just the initial confusion
[12:36] <uhhimhere> so is aptitude officially dead then?
[12:36] <ogra_> and look you gotr a kolab instance up and running fully configured with mysql, apache, imap and smtp server
[12:37] <mcphail> uhhimhere: it is just pining for the fjords
[12:37] <k1l> isnt aptitude dead since some time now? i thought after that issues with multiarch
[12:37] <ogra_> and if you want you make your snap depend on the docker framework and it runs inside a container
[12:37] <mcphail> k1l: no - it is back, apparently
[12:37] <ogra_> aptitude was never really alive in ubuntu :)
[12:38] <ogra_> (it was there because a part of the installer used it though ... )
[12:38] <uhhimhere> i still use aptitude to search and show
[12:39] <uhhimhere> but dont have the guts to use it to actually install anything
[12:39] <Scooty-loo> I thought we use dpkg to look into packages
[12:39] <ogra_> butr no, apt or aptitude wont go away
[12:39] <Scooty-loo> haha
[12:39] <ogra_> nor will dpkg
[12:39] <mcphail> uhhimhere: I've been assured in #ubuntu it is fully supported again and the multiarch issues are resolved
[12:39] <ogra_> the archive as you know it will go on to exist
[12:39] <ogra_> (snappy images are still built from it)
[12:40] <ogra_> and we cant really force all flavours to use snappy if tehy dont want ... like we dont force anyone to use Mir
[12:40] <ogra_> so the existing archive will persist
[12:42] <mcphail> Having said all this, when I get my hands on a BQ device and break it on day one by using apt, is it simple to reflash to stock?
[12:42] <Scooty-loo> right, flavors like xubuntu which I'm using. grabbing a kvm image to test it out tho
[12:42] <Scooty-loo> mcphail: bq still haven't release any image
[12:42] <mcphail> Scooty-loo: that's a worry :)
[12:43] <Scooty-loo> mcphail: http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
[12:43] <popey> Scooty-loo: "still" - they haven't shipped a device yet :)
[12:43] <ogra_> mcphail, yes, it is trivial to re-flash
[12:43] <Scooty-loo> mcphail: but they are preparing their page, which is kinda hidden atm
[12:43] <Scooty-loo> mcphail: just randomly found it poking URLs
[12:44] <ogra_> you can just use ubuntu-device-flash to flash an image from the ubuntu server
[12:44] <k1l> Scooty-loo: starting the sale tomorrow
[12:44] <ogra_> for the preinstalled bq phones that is
[12:44] <mcphail> ogra_: nice
[12:44] <ogra_> for the android version it will need a bq flahs image initially
[12:44] <ogra_> then you can do the same
[12:46] <mcphail> ogra_: can you cache the image locally? I spend a lot of time away from internet access
[12:46] <ogra_> it gets cached on disk, yeah
[12:46] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: a mtk-flash-tool package would sound nice too
[12:46] <ogra_> and thanks to delta uprades it is usually also very small if you regulary update
[12:46] <mcphail> ogra_: so a further "ubuntu-device-flash" wouldn't always need net access?
[12:47] <ogra_> it might need to check versions etc from the server, not sure
[12:47] <popey> be nice to have an offline mode for u-d-f
[12:47] <mcphail> ogra_: an offline mode would be great
[12:47] <ogra_> but it wont do any downloading if the tarball or diff tarball is on disk already
[12:48] <ogra_> well, i think if you give it an image number that is on disk already it wont need network
[12:48] <ogra_> i just have never tried that :)
[12:48] <Scooty-loo> #ubuntu-touch hype
[12:49] <mcphail> ogra_: ha :)
[12:49] <ogra_> i see a --download-only option in the help too
[12:50] <ogra_> so i guess it works, but you need to hand over the version to supporess netwrok lookups
[12:50] <ogra_> sergiusens could tell ... but he is off today
[12:50] <Scooty-loo> $ ubuntu-device-flash
[12:50] <Scooty-loo> The program 'ubuntu-device-flash' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
[12:50] <Scooty-loo> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-device-flash
[12:50] <mcphail> ogra_: good to know
[12:50] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, you dont want it from the archive though ... thats most likely outdated ...
[12:51] <ogra_> there is the phablet-tools PPA on launchpad wheer the recent versions live
[12:51] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: whoops, will be updated when bq's model's out?
[12:51] <ogra_> no
[12:51]  * ogra_ would even prefer to drop it from the archive 
[12:52] <ogra_> backporting SRUs is quite some paperwork ... PPAs are better in that regard
[12:54] <Scooty-loo> wait is it not in 14.04's repo?
[13:06] <Scooty-loo> well guess time and dev's efforts will sort everything out soon, especially with the release if the first consumer ubuntu phone
[13:07] <Scooty-loo> of*
[13:17] <svij> is it known, that ubuntu phone displays one WLAN-SSID twice, if it is running on two different channels?
[13:30] <ogra_> svij, ask Wellark_ :) he maintains the network-indicator
[13:38] <svij> i hope he sees it here
[13:39] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/ In the settings ui, to enter in a subsection, do you want I use a new component (like it's history now) or do you want I do a custom implementation of ExpandablesColumn?
[13:39] <rpadovani> actually, of Expandable
[13:41] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, I have not thought about it, whatever fits best the design and results in the least amount of code :)
[13:42] <rpadovani> okay, thanks for the trust :-)
[13:43] <zzarr> is freenode slow or is it my internet?
[13:43] <ogra_> scrolls fine here :)
[13:43] <zzarr> good :)
[13:45] <zzarr> I have a Motorola Droid 4 (xt894) running Android 4.1.2, is it possible to install (build and install) Ubuntu touch on it?
[13:48] <popey> !devices | zzarr
[13:49] <zzarr> I know, but that page isn't updated in forever
[13:50] <zzarr> My device is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/maserati
[13:51] <Scooty-loo> well go ahead then, the link to the install guide is on there. Mind you, on the page you linked it says the porting is incomplete, got WIP parts
[13:51] <Scooty-loo> and install will usually remove all android data
[13:51] <Scooty-loo> so good luck and have fun
[13:52] <ogra_> it is very likely the port is outdated though
[13:52] <ogra_> most are
[13:53] <zzarr> it's almost 2 years old
[13:53] <zzarr> (2013-02-28)
[13:53] <ogra_> yeah
[13:54] <ogra_> that was still early developemnt
[13:54] <ogra_> try it, but i wouldnt expect to much
[13:54] <zzarr> I can try it, but not with a recent release
[13:55] <Scooty-loo> any build guide on there?
[13:55] <ogra_> not any recent one
[13:55] <ogra_> things were changing to fast and everyone was busy
[13:55] <ogra_> so whats there is pretty outdated  ... pretty much on the level of the above port
[13:56] <Scooty-loo> guess some hacky job to done zzarr if you wanna try the latest release
[13:57] <zzarr> how's drivers handled on a Ubuntu touch phone compared to a normal computer?
[13:57] <Scooty-loo> they are hardware specific
[13:57] <Scooty-loo> kernel source from supplier
[13:57] <Scooty-loo> I don't think there's a generic image
[13:57] <zzarr> okey, that's a problem I guess
[13:58] <zzarr> is it possible to use a recent version of the CM kernel?
[13:58] <Scooty-loo> think you need to make your own ramdisk
[13:59] <ogra_> you need a lot more
[13:59] <Scooty-loo> not sure if it will help, if you wanna do hacky thingy go see the old guide
[14:00] <Scooty-loo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DeprecatedPorting
[14:00] <zzarr> could I use the ramdisk from CM?
[14:00] <Scooty-loo> could be a reference where you can start
[14:00] <ogra_> you need the complete android HAL (hardware abstraction layer) ... that is ... binary drivers and a few daemons used to make them work
[14:00] <Scooty-loo> well you need android with runtime shaved, which is in the system partition
[14:00] <ogra_> exactly
[14:01] <ogra_> we shave all unnecessary bits though, not just the runtime
[14:01] <zzarr> okey, dose it matter what version of android I shave?
[14:01] <Scooty-loo> and the the ubuntu part, as well as modified ramdisk to not load any android runtime bot launch chroot ubuntu
[14:02] <Scooty-loo> look at that old guide..
[14:02] <zzarr> I will
[14:03] <Scooty-loo> looks like my knowledge with it stayed at 1.0 guide haha
[14:03] <zzarr> lucky me I have safe strap :)
[14:03] <zzarr> did you port a phone?
[14:03] <muyiscoi> Does the phone support Bluetooth headsets? It's not recognizing mine and I can't seem to perform data transfer over bluetooth as well
[14:03] <zzarr> Ubuntu touch to a phone
[14:03] <Scooty-loo> mind you tho guide is old
[14:04] <ogra_> muyiscoi, works fine here
[14:04] <ogra_> i use hedsets and BT speakers regulary
[14:04] <ogra_> i never tried data transfer though
[14:04] <Scooty-loo> but it is indeed the current way of implementation, where there's android in a container to do daemon and drivers
[14:04] <zzarr> It might work.... and if it dosn't... well it was worth a try
[14:05] <Scooty-loo> good luck have fun
[14:05] <zzarr> thanks
[14:05] <ogra_> zzarr, note that we moved from CM to AOSP
[14:06] <ogra_> so if you only have a CM tree that might mean some extra work
[14:06] <zzarr> ahh, so I should use AOSP
[14:06] <muyiscoi> ogra_: hmmm... wonder if its just mine. But mine works with my ubuntu laptop as well as Android. I guess I have to test it some more
[14:06] <ogra_> muyiscoi, what phone is that ?
[14:07] <eithne> hello, is it possible to install ubuntu on the S4 mini in some way?
[14:08] <Scooty-loo> lol everyone started asking if xyz device is supported
[14:09] <Scooty-loo> if there's source code, while no one on internet attempted porting as told by Google, it's time to try it yourself
[14:10] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, because its not a beginner task and badly documented :)
[14:11] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: yea...
[14:12] <Scooty-loo> eithne: still if you wanna try, I think samsung got the kernel sources and pieces you need to trial and error :c
[14:12] <zzarr> well, it looks like a big task, I'll have a go :)
[14:12] <Scooty-loo> cya
[14:12] <zzarr> but first... coffee :)
[14:12] <ogra_> zzarr, you rock :)
[14:14] <eithne> uhm..... I read on an italian site that an user succefully installed it on the S4 mini by modifying the build.prop
[14:14] <eithne> But I have no more infos about it
[14:14] <muyiscoi> ogra_ Nexus 4. Ubuntu 14.10 r15
[14:14] <ogra_> muyiscoi, ah, i havent used an N4 in a while, perhaps it is broekn there
[14:15] <muyiscoi> ogra_: ah! ok. are you using it on the BQ phone?
[14:15] <ogra_> davmor2, ^^^ have you heard anything about broken BT on N4 ?
[14:15] <ogra_> muyiscoi, yep
[14:16] <Scooty-loo> eithne: doesn't sound like it, unless that device can have init.sh enabled through build.prop, that that guy killed android afterwards, chroot ubuntu touch components and start it
[14:16] <Scooty-loo> eithne: in theory that is
[14:16] <Scooty-loo> eithne: that's how people deploy DESKTOP EDITION ubuntu on mobile most of the time
[14:17] <ogra_> yeah, that will not work for the phone edition
[14:17] <davmor2> muyiscoi: what are you trying to do with bluetooth?
[14:17] <ogra_> davmor2, headsets ... file transfers
[14:17] <ogra_> (see above)
[14:17] <kenvandine> BT was working for me on mako with vivid-proposed over the weekend
[14:18] <muyiscoi> davmor2: I tried pairing my stereo bluetooth headset and it wasn't recognized.
[14:18] <eithne> Idk what he did, but I know he followed that http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2587823
[14:18] <adrian47> Boot animation was changed?
[14:18] <muyiscoi> davmor2: then, i paired it with my nexus 5 and tried doing a file transfer, but couldn't find any way to do that. Then nexus 5 (running android) only recognized it as an audio device
[14:19] <davmor2> muyiscoi: it is connecting to headsets here, computers for me are all greyed out that is fixed in vivid though
[14:19] <ogra_> muyiscoi, you might want to switch to a different image channel
[14:20] <ogra_> 14.10 r15 sounds like the RTM channel
[14:20] <muyiscoi> davmor2: Ok. I'll test it out more later today. Don't have the phone on me ATM. I'll report back if its still not working
[14:20] <kenvandine> all i did was connect a BT speaker and played music
[14:20] <kenvandine> worked great
[14:21] <muyiscoi> ogra_ yeah, if all else fails, i'll try changing to the dev channel
[14:21] <Scooty-loo> eithne: seems that he's install nexus4 version of ubuntu touch on it. you can just follow it if you got the guts, and, well, odin
[14:21] <dobey> ogra_: sounds like stable channel. i'd hope stable was stable and bt was working there. could just be the headset is doing something weird and the bluez configuration doesn't like it, too.
[14:21] <Scooty-loo> eithne: I have no knowledge of the similarity of mini s4 and n4 so, well
[14:22] <ogra_> dobey, well, stable just means "doesnt move"
[14:22] <ogra_> which at the pace of fixes we roll isnt really an advantage (it will be one day, but not yet)
[14:23] <Scooty-loo> eithne: I wouldn't recommend you to keep going tho, as the thread's op mentioned, he got an optimus G, which is basically n4's brother
[14:23] <dobey> ogra_: well, it means "QA tested the image and approved it" so it should mean that connecting to a headset or such was done in that testing
[14:23] <dobey> but maybe that's not being tested right now
[14:23]  * dobey blames davmor2 
[14:24] <Scooty-loo> eithne: and dual boot is actually placeing ubuntu's boot image onto recovery, with partition work and stuffs, which will basically break your mini s4
[14:24] <ogra_> dobey, QA tested what was there, right
[14:24] <davmor2> dobey: it is
[14:24] <ogra_> but we havent released something in stable for quite a while
[14:24] <davmor2> dobey: the RTM channel is the most tested channel
[14:26] <dobey> our numbering scheme is a bit annoying too. it's hard to keep track of what's what when compared to other devices and such
[14:26] <ogra_> well, most tested for krillin
[14:26] <davmor2> dobey: it has gone through, silo, sanity, sanity for promotion (Mako, krillin, emulator), and then a 60 hour regression suite and then gets promoted and bluetooth is tested in sanity and regression and any silos :P
[14:26] <Scooty-loo> well hope that eithne got the idea and not waste the time to break that mini s4
[14:27] <ogra_> as lon as he knows how to fix it :)
[14:27] <ogra_> *long
[14:27] <dobey> although, now i'm wondering how to build an ubuntu-touch seed image for a panda board
[14:27] <Scooty-loo> meh still a waste of time to go in completely trial and error
[14:31] <adrian47> What should I have in /var/lib/ubuntu-location-service/config.ini ? (porting)
[14:31] <davmor2> ogra_: how does your code every run when you can't type a single sentence without randomly dropping letters ;)
[14:31] <davmor2> ever even
[14:31] <ogra_> lol
[14:31] <Scooty-loo> well I'm going enjoy ubuntu touch y'all while I will wait for more news on the e4.5, as well as it's android brother
[14:31] <ogra_> typoing in such a question is pure irony :)
[14:32] <ogra_> davmor2, interpreters and compilers are clever, they tell me ;)
[14:32] <davmor2> ogra_: hahahaha
[14:32] <Scooty-loo> davmor2: and IDE
[14:32] <ogra_> my IDE is vim :)
[14:32] <davmor2> Scooty-loo: real coders use vim :)
[14:32] <davmor2> emacs at a push
[14:33] <Scooty-loo> I ain't gonna do android apps with vim
[14:33] <Scooty-loo> you can't make me
[14:33] <Scooty-loo> just no
[14:33] <ogra_> vim is great to make ubuntu apps ;)
[14:33] <ogra_> (but the SDK is too i heard ... never used it)
[14:34] <Scooty-loo> haha well bye
[14:34] <Pensee> crowded there, HI ALL !!!
[14:36] <ogra_> hello
[14:36] <Pensee> newbee question (BQ phone), is it a voip software out yet (kind of xlite) ?
[14:36] <ogra_> not yet, nope
[14:39] <Pensee> is it a mail software to come ?
[14:39] <ogra_> there is dekko in the store, its an awesome IMAP client ... still lacking some bits (i.e. encryption) though
[14:40] <ogra_> and there is a gmail webapp
[14:40] <Pensee> thank ogra_ you are very helpfull
[14:41] <ogra_> :)
[14:51] <rvr> bfiller: Silo 9 has been approved.
[14:53] <bfiller> rvr: thanks
[14:57] <Mirv> ...and published
[15:19] <kenvandine> jgdx, are ready to land the other vibrations branch in vivid?
[15:19] <jgdx> kenvandine, not yet
[15:19] <jgdx> kenvandine, or, u-s-s is
[15:19] <kenvandine> jgdx, i see all the other branches have been merged
[15:19] <jgdx> kenvandine, not the last uitk one, though?
[15:20] <kenvandine> bug 1358610
[15:20] <kenvandine> the uss vivid branch is the only one linked that isn't merged
[15:20] <kenvandine> oh
[15:21] <kenvandine> there isn't a uitk branch for vivid linked
[15:21] <dobey> ogra_: do you think it would be easy to build a phone/tablet image that runs on a pandaboard, or would it make more sense to use the armhf desktop-next iso?
[15:21] <jgdx> zsombi, could you link all vivid branches to bug 1358610 ?
[15:21] <kenvandine> jgdx, ok, then no worries from me... whenever it's ready can you just add a silo for it?
[15:21] <ogra_> dobey, neither will work, there are no drivers
[15:22] <ogra_> or rather no kernel that supports an of the existing drivers
[15:22] <jgdx> kenvandine, Yeah, really want this on vivid.
[15:22] <ogra_> panda is dead an buried
[15:22] <zsombi> jgdx: what do you mean? ^ bug bot didn't find that bug :)
[15:22] <dobey> ogra_: oh. :-/
[15:22] <ogra_> it went out of production over 2 years ago
[15:22] <jgdx> zsombi, bugbot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/barajas/+bug/1358610
[15:22] <dobey> so did nexus 4 :P
[15:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, i think rtm silo 7 needs a rebuild since the other vibrations silo landed
[15:23] <ogra_> yeah, but there were a few more N4 sold than pandas
[15:23] <jgdx> kenvandine, we're waiting on a fix for that one, so we need one anyway
[15:23] <zsombi> jgdx: both UITK MRs are linked for loooong time to it :)
[15:23] <dobey> but anyway, i have a panda board laying around that i won in orlando at UDS, and thought it might be good as a test platform for a device i want to build
[15:23] <dobey> but i guess not
[15:24] <jgdx> zsombi, not the haptics-feedback-singleton@vivid though?
[15:24] <ogra_> panda should still work wioth the armhf d-i images if you supply the right devicetree to it
[15:24] <kenvandine> zsombi, there are no branches linked for trunk
[15:24] <ogra_> and i think lool was plainning a snappy port once he finds time :)
[15:24] <ogra_> (probably never then)
[15:24] <zsombi> jgdx: well, that is the same as this one, and it is not even MR-ed to Vivid, the RTM fix will be merged automatically on next Vivid landing
[15:24] <dobey> heh
[15:25] <dobey> i thought the upstream kernel had drivers for it
[15:25] <ogra_> so for non graphical stuff the panda will likely still work
[15:25] <kenvandine> zsombi, we need that so we can land uss in vivid
[15:25] <jgdx> zsombi, woah, okay.
[15:25] <ogra_> dobey, sure, juts no 3D
[15:25] <zsombi> kenvandine: I don't get it... the two MRs were proposed for RTM, when those land there, those will be merged to trunk with a next staging landing
[15:25] <zsombi> kenvandine: so then Vivid will get it
[15:25] <zsombi> as well
[15:25] <ogra_> for EGL/GLES you need the binary drivers ... and these need kernel patches the mainline kernel doesnt have
[15:26] <kenvandine> zsombi, yeah, but when?
[15:26] <dobey> i guess mir requires 3d though
[15:26] <adrian47> So I got bootlogo now (porting), can someone help with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159865/
[15:26] <kenvandine> we want to land the uss change in vivid
[15:26] <kenvandine> we usually land in vivid before rtm, opposite of the uitk
[15:26] <zsombi> kenvandine: after they land to RTM, we merge to staging, and then we land the current staging to Vivid, so few more days and it's there
[15:26] <kenvandine> zsombi, so when will uitk get the landing in vivid?
[15:26] <dobey> ogra_: is there a good cheap armv7 board that has open 3d drivers? or are they all binary?
[15:27] <ogra_> they are all closed i think
[15:27] <zsombi> kenvandine: there's a Vivid landing from staging even now, we used to do landings as soon as we get something to land
[15:27] <kenvandine> ok, it has landed in rtm
[15:27] <kenvandine> but just this morning
[15:28] <adrian47> What should I fix first?
[15:28] <akiva-thinkpad> Hey all: Live Ask Ubuntu Anything live in 30 minutes: http://ubuntuonair.com | #ubuntu-on-air
[15:28]  * dobey wonders if the new raspberry pi 2 requires binary drivers
[15:29] <zsombi> kenvandine: fione, so then we proceed with merging to staging
[15:29] <kenvandine> cool
[15:29] <kenvandine> i guess if the staging branch gets linked to the bug we'll know when it gets merged
[15:30] <kenvandine> so we can land
[15:30] <zsombi> kenvandine: yes, I can link those to the same bug if you want, though we also have a mirroring bug on UITK
[15:31] <jgdx> please do, then we can track, and then we can land :)
[15:31] <kenvandine> zsombi, i'd appreciate it
[15:31] <jgdx> and then open beers
[15:31] <kenvandine> i'm just trying to make sure our side doesn't fall through the cracks
[15:31] <Scooty-loo> meh it will be mid night after 30 minutes and I have school tomorrow haha
[15:31] <kenvandine> jgdx, that too :)
[15:31] <zsombi> kenvandine: but you can land the scheme and uss separately, it won't make any harm...
[15:31] <kenvandine> yeah, but i don't want the setting UI to show up before it'll work :)
[15:31] <zsombi> kenvandine: as UITK landing may come with 2-3 days delay...
[15:31] <kenvandine> then we get bug reports for it, etc
[15:32] <zsombi> kenvandine: why not ;)
[15:32] <ogra_> adrian47, looks pretty good, if you dont get graphics i'd start looking at the lightdm logs in /var/log and perhaps ask in #ubuntu-mir
[15:32] <zsombi> kenvandine: it is iterative development ;)
[15:32] <kenvandine> i really don't understand why uitk doesn't land in vivid first, it is our development branch :)
[15:32] <kenvandine> seems backwards to me to land in rtm before development, but that's a different topic
[15:33] <zsombi> kenvandine: because it has been requested with HI prio to RTM, and I don't know how's your code, but the toolkit code started to be pretty different, so cherry picking from Vivid would be painful
[15:33] <dobey> oh i guess i can use the new armv7 raspberry pi
[15:34] <zsombi> kenvandine: we've introduced shadow build support in Vivid, and that means some heavy changes in the scripts, project files, etc
[15:35] <zsombi> beside some other stuff that made the toolkiit codebase to differ
[15:35] <kenvandine> yeah, our delta has gotten pretty big
[15:35] <kenvandine> but we're still able to cherry pick
[15:35] <adrian47> ogra_: thanks, if you can look: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159985/  and  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/
[15:36] <ogra_> adrian47, hmm, the first one actually looks like Mir started
[15:36] <zsombi> kenvandine: not saying that we couldn't, but it takes more time than to integrate the RTM fixes into Vivid
[15:37] <kenvandine> i just prefer getting more testing in devel before cherry picking to rtm
[15:37] <ogra_> adrian47, you should see a spinning ubuntu logo if i read the second correctly
[15:37] <kenvandine> anyway, that's a different topic :)
[15:37] <ogra_> adrian47, if thats not the case then -> #ubuntu-mir
[15:39] <adrian47> ogra_: yes i see spinning logo, it is suspending after some seconds and i can suspend it with power button too
[15:39] <ogra_> oh, so your session simply doesnt start
[15:39] <bzoltan_> kenvandine: cherry picking from the vivid UITK become a really heavy operation. Usually we need to dig down 3-4 MR deep. Not a cool thing.
[15:40] <adrian47> ogra_: wake works too
[15:41] <ogra_> adrian47, there are upstart logs for all the session bits in ~/.cache/upstart/ take a look around there ... if you got the spinner you are 90% there :)
[15:44] <Scooty-loo> adrian47: just curious, what device is that?
[15:49] <ogra_> ~ actually means /home/phablet btw ...
[15:54] <adrian47> ogra_: few logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160233/
[15:54] <mandel> Elleo, https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-download-manager/test-space-left/+merge/249093 updates, thx for the input.. that check against 0..  lord what was I thinking!
[15:55] <adrian47> Scooty-loo: DHD for now, what will be next..  I'm not sure :)
[15:56] <Elleo> mandel: my guess was that you subconciously were thinking you'd be dividing by the spaceFree and so were trying to avoid a divide by zero
[15:56] <mandel> Elleo, that is the only logical explanation hhehe
[15:56] <Elleo> :)
[15:56] <Scooty-loo> whao that 5 years old phone sure get much community care!
[15:56] <Elleo> mandel: what's the best way to test it?
[15:57] <mandel> Elleo, well, add lots of music to your device to have less than 100mb left and try to download an img with the browser
[15:57] <mandel> Elleo, you should get an error in that case
[15:58] <Elleo> mandel: okay
[16:01] <mandel> Elleo, thx
[16:01] <seb128> calendar event reminders are supposed to have notifications with actions (snooze, dismiss) right? I currently don't get those on my krillin rtm... does anyone know how to debug?
[16:01] <Scooty-loo> http://ubuntuonair.com/ lol he scared me as I left it on the background
[16:02] <Scooty-loo> and gtg
[16:03] <tsdgeos> renatu: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/address-book-app/aim_is_not_aim/+merge/249161
[16:07] <adrian47> oh, I pasted bad apparmor.log
[16:07] <renatu> tsdgeos, thanks
[16:07] <ogra_> adrian47, thats all system stuff ... the bits from /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/ are far more interesting
[16:08] <ogra_> since you have issues with session startup ... session logs are all kept there
[16:08] <adrian47> ogra_: sorry I copied bad logs
[16:09] <adrian47> ogra_: I am usign rootstock installer that insterts all in system.img if it changes anything
[16:12] <adrian47> ogra_:  .cache folder in /home/phablet doesn't exist
[16:13] <ogra_> adrian47, hmm, thats weird
[16:13] <ogra_> mterry, do you have any idea what coudl be wrong ? adrian47 is porting to a new device, he gets the spinner but no session seems to start
[16:14] <ogra_> lightdm looks okayish
[16:14] <ogra_> *lightdm.log
[16:14] <mterry> adrian47, ogra_: normally in my experience that means no unity8 or not unity-system-compositor
[16:14] <mterry> *no
[16:14] <mterry> For a new device, I'm guessing Mir/unity-system-compositor is the culprit
[16:15] <mterry> Though you are still getting the spinner.  So USC isn't completely dead
[16:15] <Scooty-loo> oh have one curiosity, is bq's ubuntu touch based on MTK's 3.4.67 kernel source?
[16:15] <anpok_> hm animated spinner means, usc runs but no unity8 connection to switch too?
[16:15] <anpok_> *to
[16:16] <ogra_> mterry, i would expect u-s-c to work if the spinner does
[16:16] <ogra_> (which it obviously does)
[16:16] <mterry> ogra_, yeah I tend to agree, but some part of nested Mir code may be having fits with two sessions
[16:17] <mterry> anpok_, by and large yeah.  I wouldn't say Mir is obviously blameless, but u8 is a good guess
[16:17] <ogra_> note that i think that apparmor isnt properly working with that kernel yet
[16:17] <ogra_> but thjat shouldnt have impact on the unconfined parts
[16:17] <mterry> anpok_, but if it's getting that far (to try and fail with u8), I would expect something in ~/.cache
[16:18] <mterry> anpok_, just to confirm, USC has its own log in /var/log/lightdm/.  Make sure it looks good
[16:18] <anpok_> mterry, you mean adrian47 ^
[16:18] <mterry> anpok_, yup!  I do.  :)
[16:19] <mterry> anpok_, saw an "a" person in the conversation and my brain switched  :)
[16:20] <ogra_> "a" with number :)
[16:20] <adrian47> mterry:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159985/  and  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/ :)
[16:22] <Scooty-loo> on ubuntu live they are talking about how long will ubuntu-touch be supported
[16:22] <Scooty-loo> said 5 years
[16:22] <Scooty-loo> sounds like 5 years with same kernel 3.4.67 with mediatek...
[16:23] <Scooty-loo> btw 3.4.67 is just my guess, since that's what manufacture used to ship android 4.4~4.4.4
[16:24] <mterry> adrian47, all those "Seat seat0 changes active session to " lines look weird at the end, but besides that, it's normal
[16:24] <mterry> adrian47, but what about the unity-system-compositor.log in that same directory?
[16:26] <adrian47> mterry, i think that it is good http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/
[16:27] <mterry> adrian47, yeah, shows that it never got a unity8 session request too
[16:27] <mterry> adrian47, but the lightdm.log shows that it tried to start an upstart session for the user
[16:27] <mterry> adrian47, so I'd look at why upstart isn't kicking off u8 and leaving logs about it
[16:29] <mandel> ChickenCutlass, => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-system-settings/download-checksum/+merge/249214
[16:31] <ChickenCutlass> great
[16:31] <ogra_> Scooty-loo, well, we might get security fixes for the kernels in case there are serious gaping security holes ... but beyond that there is no need for newer kernels if the HW doesnt change
[16:32] <ogra_> (which it likely never will on a phone :) )
[16:32] <Scooty-loo> ogra_: true c:
[16:35] <Scooty-loo> Looks like I can't keep watching the stream, good day or good night depends on where you all are
[16:41] <adrian47> mterry, thanks, it can be caused by readonly mounted system.img?
[16:42] <ybon> Do we know how many phones will be selled tomorrow?
[16:42] <ybon> (I'm being asked)
[16:42] <mterry> adrian47, that's getting more foundations-y than I'm used to.  Isn't readonly mounted system.img normal?  It'll still have /home/phablet as rw I thought
[16:52] <dobey> mterry: well if $HOME is ro, then it will be impossible to have any logs in ~/.cache (or pretty much anything running as that user)
[16:52] <dobey> since pretty much everything about the user session requires being able to write to $HOME
[16:52] <mterry> dobey, yeah sure.  But I thought we mounted $HOME as rw separate from how system.img is managed
[16:52] <mterry> adrian47, in "mount" output, how is /home/phablet listed?
[16:53] <dobey> mterry: yes, there are several mount points which are rw so that the system will work properly
[16:58] <adrian47> mterry, where is "mount" output?
[16:58] <mterry> adrian47, run "mount" in a terminal with no arguments
[17:00] <adrian47> I am using rootstock installer which insterts everything in system.img (2GB), it's mounted at boot with touch script
[17:01] <adrian47> i don't have usb connection at boot so i can do mount only from recovery, it will help?
[17:05] <dobey> adrian47: no, the recovery is a different image; you need to check in a booted/running environment
[17:10] <adrian47> i will try to modify touch script
[17:16] <adrian47> how long 1st boot should take?
[17:25] <adrian47> mterry, dobey, mounting it as rw didn't changed anything
[17:28] <ogra_> adrian47, edit the line with "start on" in /etc/init/android-tools-adbd.conf
[17:28] <ogra_> make it something like: start on (runlevel [2]) or android
[17:28] <adrian47> i found .cache/upstart ! :)
[17:29] <ogra_> and make sure to set a password for the phablet user (or a pin) using the passwd command ... then you shoudl be able to use adb
[17:31] <adrian47> ogra_, thanks i see now error: user has no password set, can not start adbd
[17:32] <ogra_> yeah, you somehow need to get a password set
[17:33] <ogra_> do you have working network ? you could hack ssh to start by default
[17:37] <adrian47> here are my .cache/upstart/ logs: paste.ubuntu.com/10161404
[17:42] <ogra_> adrian47, thats all ?
[17:43] <ogra_> no unity8 log or anythin ?
[17:44] <adrian47> ogra_, yes thats all
[17:46] <ogra_> well, it would be good if you could get some kind of shell access to the running system
[17:47] <ogra_> so you couzld try out something like running "start unity8" and see what happens etc
[17:47] <ogra_> sadly our adbd is a bit locked down for production, i need to provide a developer version of it for such cases
[17:49] <adrian47> the passwd is stored in some file? maybe i can modify it
[17:50] <ogra_> adrian47, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/adbd replace /usr/bin/adbd in your install with that one
[17:50] <ogra_> that might work (no promises)
[17:53] <adrian47> ogra_, thanks i wil try
[17:53] <wxl> just got a nexus 4 with touch on it. if i want to change channels, must i use desktop to do this, or can this be done on the device itself?
[18:00] <ogra_> wxl, system-image-cli --help
[18:00] <ogra_> see the --switch switch :)
[18:00] <wxl> ogra_: so tl;dr you can do it on the device's terminal
[18:00] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  I have an insane question (like always)  How acceptable would be to install a complete sysroot to the /var/lib/schroot/chroots and make the click to use is?
[18:00] <ogra_> yeah, if your fingers are small enough to not make you go insane typing :)
[18:01] <ogra_> bzoltan_, what /var/lib/schroot/chroots ?
[18:01] <ogra_> on the phone ?
[18:01] <wxl> ogra_: hahah okie dokie. one other thing. for testing images, since the iso tracker doesn't link download images, how do you ensure that everyone's testing the same image?
[18:02] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  not on the desktop
[18:02] <ogra_> wxl, the QA team coordinates in #ubuntu-ci-eng usually ...
[18:02] <adrian47> ogra_,  it's still offline on adb devices
[18:02] <ogra_> jibel, ^^^ some community testing wanted ?
[18:02] <nagus-zek> hi
[18:02] <wxl> ogra_: okie dokie, thx!
[18:02] <ogra_> adrian47, bah
[18:03] <ogra_> bzoltan_, why would i care :) install what you like :)
[18:03] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  dude :)
[18:03] <ogra_> bzoltan_, i always use qemu-deboostrap for armhf chroots on my desktop
[18:03] <ogra_> and create full system chroots
[18:04] <ogra_> bzoltan_, how do you do it today ? what would be the difference
[18:04] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  that is fine .. but for the SDK it is a major pain to see the bootsrapping process and wait
[18:04] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  Today it is a pretty smple chroot creation... regular as an espresso
[18:05] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  what would be better is  to wget a binary blob what is API equivalent with the #NUM image
[18:05] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  or apt-get ubuntu-sdk-15.04-rev255-armhf
[18:06] <nagus-zek> i have installed ubuntu touch on nexus4 ... it works good ... but my  proximity sensor is broken ... is ist possible ... so the display goes black when i call or i get a call ... is it possible to disable this function?
[18:06] <ogra_> bzoltan_, wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/vivid-core-armhf.tar.gz ; untar ... ; cp /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static untarred_dir/usr/bin/; chroot untarred_dir ... ; apt-get install $my_build_deps
[18:07] <ogra_> bzoltan_, that saves you from debootstrap
[18:07] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  and if I want an i386 chroot... I guess it is the same
[18:07] <ogra_> ChickenCutlass, ^^^ do we have any way to override the prox. sensor for nagus-zek ?
[18:08] <adrian47> ogra_, sdin: is not tty   -su: /usr/bin/adbd: Permission denied
[18:08] <ogra_> bzoltan_, right ... just s/armhf/i386/ in the download
[18:08] <ogra_> adrian47, oh, make it exacutable :) i guess you pushed it via adb in recovery ?
[18:08] <ogra_> that removed the exec bit from files ;)
[18:08] <bzoltan_> ogra_: okey, after that all I need is to feed it to schroot
[18:09] <ChickenCutlass> ogra_ not sure, whould have to remeber if we can mock those results.
[18:09] <adrian47> ogra_, hah :)
[18:09] <ogra_> bzoltan_, yeah ... btw, i noticed the fat package discussion ... you should make sure that your reqs are covered in snap packages ... they will eventually replace click
[18:10] <nagus-zek> bzoltan: during the call the display goes black until  finish the call ...
[18:10] <bzoltan_> ogra_:  that is new, but thank you for the heads up
[18:11] <ogra_> bzoltan_, yeah, both teams kind of work in their own corners, only phonedations is working across the boundaries atm ... the phone will at some point move to a snappy base
[18:11] <ogra_> which means snap packages too
[18:11] <bzoltan_> ogra_: sounds cool
[18:11] <ogra_> yeah, then you can just snappy install apache :)
[18:11] <adrian47> ogra_, chmod 777 will be ok?
[18:11] <ogra_> on your phone ;)
[18:12] <ogra_> adrian47, yeah
[18:14] <adrian47> ogra_, it works! :)
[18:16] <ogra_> yay
[18:16] <ogra_> i sadly need to leave you alone with that ... my GF kills me if i dont appear at the dinner table :)
[18:17] <ogra_> but just try some bits and pieces like running start unity8 (as phablet user) (and watch the log in ~/.cache/upstart etc)
[18:18] <ogra_> probably you find something obvious by poking around
[18:18] <adrian47> ogra_, it's ok, bon appetit :)
[18:18] <ogra_> heh, thanks :)
[18:18] <adrian47> many thanks for help
[18:18] <ogra_> welcome :)
[18:20] <adrian47> start unity8 :: start: Unknown job: unity8
[18:27] <zer01> Hi, did somebody know supported languages for ubuntu phone?
[18:30] <dobey> zer01: c++/qml+js/go are really the "supported" ones
[18:30] <zer01> sorry, I mean interface, like UK, Czech, Italian
[18:33] <dobey> zer01: there are 112 languages installed by default in /usr/share/locale on the image for the nexus 4, i think the same are available on the bq phone as well
[18:34] <zer01> Exelent, I thought this as well.
[18:34] <zer01> Thx
[18:36] <dobey> does anyone know how i can run qmlscene directly and have it work, under Mir? is there some way i can run aa-exec to get it working?
[18:40] <dobey> tedg: ^^ any ideas how i could do that?
[18:43] <svij> anyone knows who long the bq phone is supported with updates? Is there any fixed time?
[18:47] <dobey> svij: i suspect for as long as bq chooses to continue supporting the device.
[18:47] <dobey> svij: or as long as someone continues to build images for it, after that point, at least.
[18:48] <svij> dobey: isn't canonical doing that?
[18:50] <dobey> svij: canonical/ubuntu just provides images. when bq stops supporting the hardware it probably won't make much sense to necessarily continue building images for it, though it's possible it may happen for some time after that. but just like previous devices that we've stopped building images for (galaxy nexus, nexus 7 2012), there will be a point where it probably doesn't make any sense to continue providing updates for the aq
[18:50] <john-mcaleely> dobey, there are 100 languages on an image 12 aren't used in the UI for various reasons
[18:51] <dobey> john-mcaleely: sure. and some of them are the same language in different regions
[18:51] <svij> dobey: i see, thanks :). I just hope bq isn't dropping the support fastly
[18:52] <dobey> svij: bq is manufacturer first level of support. if you want answers about support life of the device, bq is who will have to answer that :)
[18:52] <svij> dobey: right, thx :)
[18:54] <SidPayton> QUESTION: Will the new scopes (Today, NearBy, etc) be available to the Nexus 4 users? If so when?
[18:55] <SidPayton> QUESTION: What happend to the VLC app and 8tracks scope which where announced a year back? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/vlc-lastpass-coming-ubuntu-touch
[18:57] <bzoltan_> ogra_: I love you man! Next time I see you I will give you a big hug :) I just made a click chroot out of a static rootfs.
[18:58] <dobey> SidPayton: you'll have to ask the developers of vlc and 8tracks where they are. those announcements are from them, not ubuntu/canonical, afaict
[19:00] <dobey> i don't know about if/when those scopes will be on other images
[19:00] <SidPayton> thanks dobey. do you know who might know?
[19:01] <dobey> i'm not sure. olli, pmcgowan: ^^ do you know anything about getting the new aggregator scopes on other device images?
[19:02] <pmcgowan> dobey, I am checking, first answer I got was they are not available, which I didnt like :)
[19:02] <dobey> right, they aren't currently
[19:03] <pmcgowan> or not planned to be available
[19:04] <SidPayton> yeah, but they should be. I want to show off my Nexus 4 with Ubuntu on it to friends and the scope experiance with the new aggregator scopes makes most of it
[19:04] <dobey> yeah i don't know if there are some business/contract thing about that. above my pay grade :P
[19:07] <pmcgowan> I agree, will try to find out
[19:35] <zbenjamin> ogra_: do you know if there is some documentation for the snappy package format?
[19:39] <OerHeks> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/packaging-format-apps/
[19:40] <mterry> pete-woods, robert_ancell and I are seeing "No data sources available" in the infographics screen on our nexus 4 devices
[19:40] <mterry> pete-woods, where does libusermetrics log things, if we wanted to see what the fault is?
[19:40] <mterry> pete-woods, slash, have you seen this before?
[19:42] <pete-woods> mterry: I've heard about the data going missing before
[19:42] <pete-woods> it was always due to some sort of partitioning error
[19:42] <pete-woods> i.e. the /var/lib/usermetrics mount had got messed up by an image upgrade
[19:42] <pete-woods> I can't remember where the log file goes
[19:42] <mterry> pete-woods, huh... let me see what mount says
[19:43] <zapa_> good day!
[19:43] <pete-woods> it's a system dbus service, started by dbus
[19:43] <zapa_> anyone know if there are any examples for native C++ support on Ubuntu Touch?
[19:43] <adrian47> mterry, i have now upstart logs when tried to "start unity8" from adb paste.ubuntu.com/10162969/
[19:43] <zapa_> looking to port MOAI and some of my games made with it
[19:44] <mterry> pete-woods, /dev/mmcblk0p23 on /var/lib/usermetrics type ext4 (rw,relatime,discard,nodelalloc,data=journal)
[19:44] <pete-woods> so the log goes, er, wherever you'd expect that log? (is it dmesg?
[19:44] <pete-woods> mterry: I think it was the folder ownership
[19:44] <pete-woods> it should be owned and writable by the usermetrics user/group
[19:45] <pete-woods> there was an image upgrade that hosed the ownership of the /var/lib mounts at some point
[19:45] <mterry> adrian47, what log file is that?
[19:45] <robert_ancell> $ ls /var/lib/usermetrics/ -ld
[19:45] <robert_ancell> drwxr-x--- 2 messagebus systemd-journal 4096 Jul 10  2014 /var/lib/usermetrics/
[19:45] <pete-woods> that looks like the issue
[19:45] <pete-woods> a bit of chowning should fix it up
[19:45] <mterry> pete-woods, drwxr-x--- 2 messagebus systemd-journal 4096 Aug 21 12:38 /var/lib/usermetrics/
[19:45] <adrian47> mterry, all 3 logs have the same text, they are from .cache/upstart
[19:46] <mterry> adrian47, what are the filenames?
[19:46] <robert_ancell> pete-woods, do you know the correct ownership/flags?
[19:46] <pete-woods> usermetrics:usermetrics is the owner
[19:46] <mterry> pete-woods, robert_ancell: testing after a "sudo chown usermetrics:usermetrics /var/lib/usermetrics/"
[19:46] <pete-woods> 660 will probably do for hte owner
[19:47] <pete-woods> sorry, permissions
[19:47] <adrian47> mterry, upstart-dbus-session-bridge.log ; upstart-dbus-system-bridge.log ; upstart-file-bridge.log
[19:47] <mterry> adrian47, huh
[19:47] <pete-woods> the folder and the database file both need fixing
[19:48] <pete-woods> anyway, I'm only signed on still by accident, (8pm here)
[19:49] <mterry> adrian47, looks like dbus is having problems, but those error messages aren't super helpful
[19:49] <mterry> pete-woods, oh ok, thanks for the help!
[19:49] <pete-woods> so let me know if the chowning fixes it :)
[19:49] <robert_ancell> rebooting now
[19:49] <pete-woods> I'm pretty confident it will, it worked for other people
[19:49] <adrian47> mterry, i see that spinning logo is not spinning smothly until adb shell started :)
[19:49] <robert_ancell> pete-woods, mterry, worked great, thanks!
[19:49] <pete-woods> ;d
[19:49] <pete-woods> :D
[19:50] <robert_ancell> unfortunately I guess the metrics are empty since they couldn't be written to
[19:50] <pete-woods> yeah
[19:50] <pete-woods> but take a quick picture and you should see an update
[19:50] <robert_ancell> In a month it will look good :)
[19:50] <pete-woods> :)
[19:51] <robert_ancell> "1 photos taken today". Nice grammar :)
[19:51] <pete-woods> not my string
[19:51] <mterry> pete-woods, it's not?
[19:51] <pete-woods> it's provided by the apps
[19:51] <mterry> pete-woods, it's not u8's, right?  Is that the camera's fault?
[19:51] <pete-woods> yeah
[19:51] <pete-woods> but
[19:51] <pete-woods> at the risk of having the coversation again
[19:52] <mterry> :)
[19:52] <pete-woods> the numbers are all floats
[19:52] <zbenjamin> OerHeks: thx
[19:52] <pete-woods> and gettext doesn't support floats
[19:52] <pete-woods> the idea was for e.g. "walked 1.2 miles today"
[19:52] <pete-woods> and floats + plural forms just isn't support by anything
[19:52] <pete-woods> but we were supposed to switch to the slightly less personal
[19:52] <pete-woods> Pictures taken today: 1
[19:53] <pete-woods> to avoid the pluralisation issue
[19:53] <pete-woods> but yes, those strings are in, e.g. camera-app, telephony-service, music-app, etc
[19:54] <pete-woods> anyway, EOD for me
[19:54] <pete-woods> glad the fix worked for you guys :)
[19:54] <robert_ancell> When I show the phone to random people I'll stop getting what's "No data sources mean" questions now
[19:55] <TopGear> Hello guys. I am wondering whether one can use the BQ phone as a mobile hotspot. Do you know?
[19:58] <zapa_> didn't see any hotspot options in ubuntu touch on my nexus 4
[19:59] <zapa_> lemme check to be sure
[20:00] <zapa_> nope, can't find anything TopGear
[20:00] <rickspencer3> TopGear, that feature is on the list, but it has been implemented yet
[20:00] <rickspencer3> soon
[20:00] <pmcgowan> TopGear, zapa_ its in the works, but pretty sure you can set it up manually
[20:00] <rickspencer3> he
[20:01] <SturmFlut> pmcgowan, TopGear: At least on the Nexus 4, hostapd worked
[20:02] <zapa_> do i need to do anything on the nexus 4 to get it to show up in Ubuntu SDK device list?
[20:02] <SturmFlut> zapa_: Enable developer mode
[20:04] <zapa_> thank you SturmFlut
[20:04] <tedg> dobey, You can use ubuntu-app-test
[20:04] <SturmFlut> :)
[20:04] <tedg> dobey, Do you know how to get that?
[20:04] <tedg> Sorry, I missed your ping.
[20:06] <TopGear> Thank you guys! rickspencer3, you say it hasn't been implemented yet - do you expect it to arrive via the updates?
[20:07] <rickspencer3> TopGear, when the feature is complete and fully tested it will indeed be pushed out in an update
[20:07] <rickspencer3> since it's all "just linux" under the covers, as pmcgowan ways, there may be a way to enable it now, but it wouldn't be the full feature
[20:07] <TopGear> rickspencer3, Good, that's good news. Is there a list somewhere with pending features?
[20:08] <rickspencer3> TopGear, hmmmm
[20:08] <pmcgowan> hmm
[20:08] <pmcgowan> heh
[20:08] <rickspencer3> TopGear, I know that we discuss them in great detail at each UOS, but not sure how they are captured
[20:08] <dobey> tedg: is it packaged in the archive?
[20:08] <pmcgowan> we could do better to publish a planned list even if without dates
[20:09] <tedg> dobey, No, https://launchpad.net/~ted/+junk/ubuntu-app-test
[20:09] <tedg> dobey, Probably should though
[20:09] <rickspencer3> pmcgowan, definitely *without* dates :)
[20:09] <TopGear> rickspencer3, All right then, no problems. I will see if I pre-order it tomorrow.
[20:09] <rickspencer3> pmcgowan, TopGear I was hoping that we could put out some kind of feature list and let early adopters vote them up and down to help us prioritize, but ...
[20:09] <rickspencer3> I know WIFI Hotspot is already high on the list
[20:10] <pmcgowan> it is
[20:10] <dobey> tedg: though i'm not sure if having it in the archive will help for the case where the tests get run on real phones
[20:10] <TopGear> That'd be nice indeed. A bit like askubuntu where the best solutions are upvoted.
[20:10] <rickspencer3> TopGear, yeah, it was just a pipe dream I had
[20:10] <tedg> dobey, Well, it'd be easier to install along with the autopilot stuff.
[20:11] <dobey> tedg: indeed
[20:11] <TopGear> (I'm off fixing some posts on a forum.)
[20:11] <tedg> Is brainstorm still running somewhere?
[20:11] <dobey> tedg: does that fail when Mir isn't in use (ie, when running under x)?
[20:11] <dobey> lol brainstorm
[20:11] <tedg> dobey, Yes, it requires Mir.
[20:12] <tedg> Basically it sets up a trusted session on a an app that it starts, and then starts your qmlscene over top of it.
[20:12] <dobey> tedg: i think we need something that works equally under both mire and X (at least until we get a virtual framebuffer driver for Mir)
[20:12] <kenvandine> yum, trusted session
[20:12] <tedg> kenvandine, They're good for you! Eat two daily!
[20:12] <kenvandine> i'm eating one now :)
[20:13]  * tedg hands kenvandine some floss
[20:13] <kenvandine> tedg, speaking of which... is there anyway to test it on the desktop?
[20:13] <SturmFlut> If you are going to buy a Bq Aquaris E4.5 tomorrow, and add a second item to your shopping cart, you get a 15% discount. That means that if you buy a phone and the cheapest pastic cover, the total prices for both items drops to about 152 €
[20:14] <tedg> kenvandine, As long as you're running Mir on the desktop… ;-)
[20:14] <kenvandine> SturmFlut, cool!
[20:14] <zapa_> SturmFlut: thanks for the info!
[20:14] <kenvandine> tedg, you're lucky you're not close by
[20:14] <kenvandine> i have a sharp instrument with your name on it
[20:14]  * tedg can feel the love
[20:14] <SturmFlut> lol
[20:15] <kenvandine> i'm trying to untangle my busted armhf chroot
[20:15] <kenvandine> so i can build this for the device
[20:15] <kenvandine> painful...
[20:15] <tedg> Yeah, was looking at that boards project from Linaro.
[20:15] <tedg> Curious if I can't get a little builder for my desk.
[20:15] <kenvandine> i think my drive is actually failing throwing errors
[20:16] <kenvandine> which is causing my chroot to choke
[20:16] <tedg> This: https://www.96boards.org/
[20:16] <kenvandine> unfortunately i don't have the free space on my ssd to create a chroot :/
[20:16] <dobey> tedg: is there a sane way to detect if mir is required?
[20:16] <tedg> dobey, Running or required?
[20:17] <tedg> If you have a MIR_SOCKET environment variable you probably have Mir running.
[20:17] <dobey> tedg: running i guess
[20:20] <SturmFlut> tedg: Yeah, I was interested in the HiKey board too at first, but then I realized that they want 129$ for a board that comes with only 1 GB of RAM, 4 GB of Flash, only Cortex-A53 cores, without SATA and without Ethernet.
[20:20] <matv1> evenin everyone
[20:20] <matv1> i have been dealing with a lot of unresponsive shells lately. at this moment again. A lot means roughly once a week, maybe 2 weeks. This I guess would be unity8 but i am not sure if this ought to be filed under an existing bug or not.
[20:21] <tedg> SturmFlut, Yeah, was thinking I'd use the USB ports… not ideal, but 8 64-bit ARM cores might be worth it.
[20:21] <matv1> well not entirely unresponive: just the right and left swipes. So i am always locked into the app that has focus. (i can apply screen lock and unlock again but that doesnt change the frozen shell ).
[20:22] <matv1> can anyone relate that to a known active bug?
[20:22] <SturmFlut> tedg: And most stuff on that board is "non-standard" too. 12V power supply instead of the usual 5 V USB plug, 1.8V serial ports (seriously?), 2 millimeter pin spacing instead of 2.54 etc.
[20:23] <varikonniemi> can the bq phone output video via microusb?
[20:23] <SturmFlut> tedg: I doubt you would have much fun with eight cores and only 1 GB of RAM
[20:24] <tedg> Eh, yeah. Perhaps the 96 boards project will result in more boards.
[20:24] <varikonniemi> iow can ubuntu touch do it, since the android version can
[20:24] <tedg> Technically the schematics are there…
[20:24] <kenvandine> i love having an SSD for my root and / file systems, but 120G just isn't very much
[20:25] <kenvandine> so having to add space with an old school drive sucks
[20:25] <tedg> varikonniemi, No, not yet.
[20:25] <dobey> varikonniemi: ubuntu doesn't have otg video support yet, no
[20:25] <SturmFlut> varikonniemi: The Bq Aquaris E4.5 has no MHL output, so no.
[20:25] <kenvandine> i guess time to replace that old spinning drive
[20:25] <kenvandine> then create new chroots
[20:26] <varikonniemi> not yet or not ever? geekaphone says aquaris4.5 has video out via muusb
[20:26] <kenvandine> i should buy a hybrid drive, but i need to get back up and running
[20:27] <varikonniemi> so if usb gives video out and bluetooth gives kb&mouse, i see no reason why this phone should not be able to run the desktop
[20:27] <dobey> it is running whatever you are calling "the desktop"
[20:28] <dobey> it's just a very small screen in portrait orientation
[20:28] <dobey> well, not 'very' small i guess. it's still pretty big
[20:28] <varikonniemi> no, the desktop ui is not yet released
[20:28] <dobey> unity8 is unity8
[20:29] <SturmFlut> varikonniemi: where does geekaphone state that, I can't find it. Every source I know, including the Bq website, states that it doesn't support MHL.
[20:29] <varikonniemi> http://geekaphone.com/compare/BQ-Aquaris-4.5-vs-Kazam-Trooper-X4.5
[20:29] <varikonniemi> for isntance there
[20:30] <varikonniemi> Video out 	
[20:30] <varikonniemi> Micro USB
[20:30] <dobey> that is not the e4.5
[20:31] <matv1> anyone at all :) ?
[20:31] <dobey> matv1: i don't know :)
[20:32] <varikonniemi> i did not know e4.5 is different from 4.5, every source has only talked about 4.5
[20:33] <matv1> dobey doesnt sound familiar either? (on mako rtm proposed)
[20:33] <kenvandine> everything i've seen has said e4.5
[20:33] <kenvandine> varikonniemi, http://www.bq.com/es/ubuntu.html
[20:33] <dobey> matv1: i haven't had that on my nexus5 no
[20:33] <kenvandine> not sure why they have a 4.5 and an e4.5
[20:34] <dobey> kenvandine: well, it also has different camera resolution and storage amounts
[20:34] <kenvandine> just overloaded name
[20:34] <kenvandine> can be confusing
[20:34] <matv1> ok. kgunn would be the one to know i guess
[20:35] <dobey> or whoever put the info on geekaphone doesn't know what they're talking about
[20:36]  * matv1 just wonders if he should file a bug or not
[20:44] <SturmFlut> Has anybody already found out how to flash Ubuntu Touch on an Android E4.5? Bq confirmed that they will provide the necessary images, but didn't say when
[20:51] <matv1> Sturmflut if they will then these 'limited flash sales' are kinda meaningless. anyone could buy an android version and of the e4.5 and flash it :)
[20:55] <SturmFlut> matv1: I think they are just doing the flash sales because they can't deliver enough pre-flashed phones at the beginning. And marketing.
[21:00] <matv1> sturmflut yes that could be it
[21:17] <dobey> sturmflut: you won't be able to flash an android e4.5 until they provide the tools to do so
[21:21] <sturmflut> dobey: They already provide the tools, right under "Drivers and Tools" on the product page
[21:22] <sturmflut> dobey: It's a standard tool for MTK processors, written in Qt, for Windows, but according to the start screen there is a version for Ubuntu x86 too
[21:24] <dobey> maybe my spanish is really that bad, but i don't see anything about how to repartition the android phone and flash it with ubuntu on that page
[21:25] <sturmflut> dobey: Just a moment, I am taking a screenshot
[21:26] <sturmflut> dobey: I had to download the whole stuff and run it in Wine to find out how everything comes together
[21:27] <dobey> the duo case is kind of weird though :)
[21:30] <sturmflut> dobey: You download both the "Firmware hard reset" and "Drivers&Tools" archives. The first one contains one dump file per partition and a layout file called "MT6582_Android_scatter.txt" . The second archive contains the MTK flash tool. You load the MT6582_Android_scatter.txt file into the tool, and now the tool knows how many partitions to create, the size and location of each partition and which dump corresponds to which
[21:30] <sturmflut> partition.
[21:30] <sturmflut> dobey: Then the tool flashes everything directly into the eMMC.
[21:31] <dobey> sturmflut: ok. but i don't see where those are on the page
[21:31] <sturmflut> dobey: at the bottom
[21:32] <dobey> oh on the android phone page
[21:32] <sturmflut> dobey: Oh, yeah, I didn't think that you might look at the Ubuntu page
[21:32] <dobey> sturmflut: the phone has to be repartitioned
[21:33] <dobey> sturmflut: until bq provides the image that lays out those partitions correctly, you can't flash ubuntu onto an android version of the phone
[21:34] <sturmflut> dobey: I could someone who already owns the Ubuntu version into telling me his partition layout ;)
[21:34] <dobey> sturmflut: i don't think it works that way :)
[21:34] <dobey> anyway
[21:35] <dobey> back to trying to figure out wtf is wrong with autopilot
[21:40] <kenvandine> damn... failing hard drive isn't my only problem... can't build content-hub in a chroot, cmake causes it to hang
[21:40] <kenvandine> i thought this had been fixed
[21:40]  * sturmflut goes back to removing ownCloud from all servers
[21:43] <masakoo> Hello everyone
[21:44] <masakoo> How are you today?
[21:46] <sturmflut> terve, masakoo o/
[21:46] <masakoo> Terve
[21:48] <masakoo> En oo hyvä koodari mutta kääntäminen onnistuis ehkä ajan kanssa jos tartette apua. My question is about ubuntu on samsung android phone. Do you have experiences. Is it good and working?
[21:49] <Prezident> which model do you have?
[21:49] <masakoo> Galaxy trend plus
[21:49] <Prezident> Never tried that one.
[21:49] <masakoo> Do you like ubuntu phone?
[21:51] <sturmflut> masakoo: According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices there is no port yet for that model.
[22:03] <masakoo> Ok. Thanks
[22:31] <matv1> sturmflut not trying to be nosy but any particular reason why you all ditching all your ownCloud servers? Are there any security issues I should be aware of? :)
[22:33] <k1l_> someone told me today that the hoster stopped his server because owncloud went mad on an eclipsebackup. (too much tiny files?!?!)
[22:49] <Pensee> the BQ ubuntu edition is a different hardware than Android edition, the difference is no front buttons, so not so good for a swich between OS !
[22:50] <nhaines> Pensee: stock Android doesn't use hardware buttons either.
[22:50] <aSheepie> Hi, stupid Q regarding the SDK - I've used bzr to grab the source for the core twitter app and I want to open it with the SDK, but I can't because there isn't a project file.  Do I need to create a new (webapp?) project and import the source, or is there something I'm missing? thx
[22:57] <Pensee> Still can't make my mind about BQ phone, does anyone have a link to the store to see what software is available
[23:06] <kgunn> matv1: sorry for laggy reply..."unresponsive" shell...but with edges working, sounds actually like this one
[23:06] <kgunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1410191
[23:07] <kgunn> which basically is the unity8-dash crashing
[23:11] <matv1> kgunn hi np! I shouldnt even bee allowed to ask after 10 at night :)
[23:11]  * matv1 reading up on that bug
[23:12] <kgunn> matv1: i actually logged one last night that ended up being a dup of it....basically, if i went to the store, selected an app preview, hit "install" it would crash
[23:17] <matv1> kgunn I can say that selecting an app to install triggers it. I Have nbot experienced that
[23:18] <matv1> kgunn also I am not quite sure what you mean by step 2 in the bug.
[23:18] <matv1> Do you mean that a call to a registered online account is made?
[23:18] <ogra_> Pensee, https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps (not the official store but it pulls info from there)
[23:23] <matv1> kgunn that bug description is kinda sparse and I am not allowed to see the detailed error page.  (assuming I would understand it at all)
[23:24] <kgunn> matv1: yes, hitting install before any account is setup brings up settings app for the user to enter credentials
[23:25] <kgunn> yeah...gah, they automatically have those error pages private, in case somone logs sensitive info
[23:25] <kgunn> matv1: if you think you're seeing something different, take a video, that would be awesome...
[23:26] <kgunn> then also you can check your crash files (just check timestamp to make sure it's relevant in time to what you experience
[23:26] <kgunn> then you can apport-cli <crash file>...and upload it...it will process it and give you a link to follow onto launchpad to complete the process
[23:31] <matv1> kgunn okay I will try and do that. Thanks!
[23:32] <kgunn> matv1: hey thanks for the help in finding bugs
[23:32] <kgunn> let me know if you need a pointer on anything
[23:32] <zapa_> SDL is not supported on Ubuntu Touch right?
[23:33] <matv1> kgunn ok Ithink ill be alright in extracting crashfiles a doing the apport. I am just not altogether sure we are on the same page over the nature over this bug.
[23:34] <kgunn> matv1: understood
[23:34] <matv1> but i will let you guys decide :)
[23:34] <kgunn> sure :)
[23:34] <kgunn> zapa_: hmmm, maybe ? i mean bschaefer is working on it...but not sure if it needs "other stuff" that might not be default installed in the touch image
[23:35] <zapa_> understood
[23:35] <koding123> so what is the point of using Ubuntu Make instead of a package specific PPA?
[23:36] <RobbyF> Hey guys, where would i look for the latest galaxy nexus image? (i know it's no longer supported)