[00:00] <pleia2> and they're lovely <3
[00:00] <pleia2> but no alliance :(
[00:01] <philballew> It seems odd that both those airlines would not join an alliance.
[00:01] <philballew> but they are both different enough where I can see it.
[00:02] <pleia2> virgin america doesn't even have an alliance with virgin atlantic, boggles the mind
[00:02] <philballew> Now that is odd
[00:02] <philballew> arnt they the same company or something?
[00:02] <pleia2> technically not
[00:03] <ianorlin> I haven't been on a plane
[00:03] <pleia2> virgin atlantic is owned by folks in the UK, virgin america is owned stateside (foreign companies can't own US domestic carriers)
[00:06] <philballew> ianorlin, I haven't been in a hot air balloon
[00:07] <pleia2> I've never ridden a horse
[00:07] <philballew> philballew, I did once at summer camp. It was actually pretty cool
[00:07] <pleia2> identity crisis
[00:08] <ianorlin> or bad tab complete
[00:08] <pleia2> mine is funnier
[00:08] <pleia2> :)
[00:09] <philballew> pleia2, At least you do nt live near horses so that is your excuse.   I live a half mile from the ocean and I have not been to the ocean in five years.
[00:09] <ianorlin> I am mostly the same way
[00:10] <ianorlin> yay sea breeze
[00:11] <pleia2> I don't live near horses *now* but I did grow up a few doors down from a horse bar that I'd visit often, just never rode any
[00:25] <DonkeyHotei> pleia2: you don't? since when are there no horses in sf?
[00:25] <pleia2> DonkeyHotei: I'm sure there are some in San Francisco somewhere, but I live in the middle of downtown
[00:25] <DonkeyHotei> i went to the golden gate park riding academy when it existed
[00:26] <philballew> you could always go to the beach and ride a dolphin.
[00:26] <pleia2> golden gate park is a half hour away :)
[00:26] <DonkeyHotei> not if you take the 5
[00:26] <pleia2> philballew: too cold!
[00:27] <pleia2> DonkeyHotei: according to google maps, even taking the 5L is 39 minutes
[00:27] <DonkeyHotei> the 5 was pretty fast in my day
[00:27] <DonkeyHotei> there's a 5L now?
[00:27] <pleia2> apparently!
[00:27] <philballew> sf is like 7 miles by 7 miles.
[00:27] <philballew> everything is close
[00:28] <pleia2> there's a lot of traffic
[00:28] <DonkeyHotei> philballew: slightly less
[00:28] <philballew> oh, even better DonkeyHotei !
[00:29] <DonkeyHotei> driving on fulton st was horrendously fast in my memories
[00:29] <pleia2> taking the N metro line is 35 minutes, which is what I usually do when I go that direction
[00:29] <DonkeyHotei> the N takes literally forever
[00:29] <pleia2> the internet tells me it's faster than a bus these days
[00:30] <DonkeyHotei> i wouldn't trust google maps with bay area transit
[00:30] <philballew> San Diego is like 20 miles by 20 miles
[00:30] <pleia2> or we just drive, in which case we drive south of the city on highways and come back up
[00:30] <philballew> but we have more people
[00:30] <pleia2> because driving through the city takes so long
[00:31] <philballew> I hate driving in the city
[00:31] <DonkeyHotei> apparently you haven't discovered pine street then
[00:32] <pleia2> pine is ok on weekends, getting to it on weekdays from SOMA is pretty horrible
[00:32] <DonkeyHotei> if you take pine st, you'll be in the richmond before you can get to daly city on 280
[00:32] <pleia2> cue scary music when crossing market on a weekday
[00:33] <DonkeyHotei> crossing market is pretty awful, fremont/front streets is the way i prefer
[00:54] <blitz> you think any of that's bad you should see the traffic jam of people trying to get from main/beale/spear to harrison where the onramps are
[00:57] <blitz> people always so angry and blocking intersections and trying to run me over as I walk home
[00:57] <nhaines> blitz: if they block the intersection, just walk along their hood.
[00:57]  * akk is so happy to be away from traffic jams ... but no fry's or halted here either
[00:58] <blitz> I'd rather not get run over
[00:59] <blitz> the worst is baseball season. I have to plan zip car grocery runs around home games
[00:59] <blitz> good luck getting into safeway at 4th/king during a game :|
[01:14] <DonkeyHotei> akk: nor is there fry's or halted in sf, which has *considerably* more tolerable traffic than sili valley
[01:22] <ianorlin> There is a fry's in manhattan beach but that doesn't help people in bay area
[01:23] <elky> there's a fry's in concord
[01:23] <pleia2> and in Palo Alto (silicon valley)
[01:24] <pleia2> oops, I was getting off my computer
[01:24] <elky> and near fremont according to google maps
[01:24]  * pleia2 detatch
[01:24] <elky> lol bye
[01:26] <elky> the concord one is only a few blocks from the transit center
[01:28] <DonkeyHotei> i've heard the concord one is nice, but i've been mostly to the palo alto one since it's closest to sf
[01:29] <DonkeyHotei> going there just won't be the same without eps
[01:31] <elky> wednesday is going to be rather sombre i imagine. we're not going because i can't find any information about how good new mings is about catering to allergy, and also 2 sf visits in 4 days is a bit much
[02:21] <elky> DonkeyHotei: you had a bug regarding a non-functional trackpad on your netbook yesterday yes?
[02:21] <elky> if so, can you hit me with the bug#
[02:22] <DonkeyHotei> 1419552
[02:23] <elky> thanks
[02:35] <elky> i just hit an issue on regular ubuntu that could be related. it's wonderfully inconsistent though, our favourite kind of bug
[02:44] <DonkeyHotei> akk: nor is there fry's or halted in sf, which has *considerably* more tolerable traffic than sili valley
[02:50] <akk> Wait, you're saying San Francisco has more tolerable traffic than sili valley?
[02:50] <DonkeyHotei> much
[02:50] <DonkeyHotei> i dread driving down to sj now
[02:50] <akk> SF must have halved its population in the couple of years since I last drove there.
[02:50] <DonkeyHotei> sf hasn't changed, sj has
[02:52] <akk> It was bad but it was certainly not as bad as what I've seen in SF.
[02:52] <DonkeyHotei> no longer the case
[02:52] <akk> Well, unless it's gotten way worse in the one year since we left.
[02:52] <DonkeyHotei> it has
[02:53] <akk> In a single year?
[02:53] <DonkeyHotei> or two
[02:53] <nhaines> akk: the struggle is real.
[02:54] <akk> It would have to be one -- I lived there until a year ago this week.
[02:55] <DonkeyHotei> in the same amount of time, traffic in sf hasn't gotten heavier, just less friendly, but still much nicer than sacto
[02:55] <akk> We left just before the new 880/280 interchange, so that part may well be a lot worse (yay traffic planners).
[02:56] <DonkeyHotei> the 880/237 area is even worse
[02:56] <akk> Yeah, that's been awful for a while. And anything touching 85.
[02:56] <akk> We always took streets and avoided freeways around rush hour, which you'd have to do in SF too
[02:57] <akk> though in SF, it's farther between exits if you unfortunately find yourself on a freeway when you shouldn't be.
[02:58] <DonkeyHotei> in sf there aren't so many places to accidentally get on a freeway
[02:58] <akk> We were usually driving up from the south bay, so you're on 101 and you have to guess when to get off or be stuck for 40 minutes crawling to the next exit.
[02:59] <DonkeyHotei> as early as possible
[03:00] <akk> I suspect maybe perception of which area is worse depends on how well you know the surface streets for freeway avoidance.
[03:00] <akk> We admittedly never learned SF well, so it was a traffic nightmare, but a native might know the tricks.
[03:01] <DonkeyHotei> having only one freeway that goes all the way through means everyone and their dog who doesn't know the surface streets sticks to it
[03:02] <akk> Yep. Though both SF and the south bay have multiple freeways.
[03:07] <DonkeyHotei> sf has only two
[03:08] <akk> 101, 280 and 80, no?
[03:09] <DonkeyHotei> 101 and 80 are effectively one