[00:19] <elky> pleia2: brainwash: i'm currently downloading a plain ubuntu daily to check if it's xubuntu specific or not
[00:20] <pleia2> thanks elky
[00:21] <elky> i'll also update the ancient window size bug when i've finished that
[00:24] <elky> if it's not, i guess i get to download all the flavors and see which ones fail
[00:24] <pleia2> \o/
[02:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: do you have a multi-monitor setup?  the screenshot branch doesn't do so well for me with 2 monitors
[02:39] <bluesabre> just a white screen
[03:21] <Unit193> bluesabre: That's a merge from brainwash, should put his name there I believe.
[03:22] <bluesabre> Unit193: I saw it after pushing, corrected here https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/550
[03:22] <Unit193> Hah, my bad.  Didn't get that message yet.
[03:23] <bluesabre> :)
[04:06] <bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1415683
[04:07] <bluesabre> I added your patch to my install, it seems to work as far as I can tell
[04:07] <bluesabre> are you aware of any specific triggers?
[04:25] <bluesabre> elfy: light-locker 1.6 uploaded to -staging, shouldn't be much to test, other than if it works for you... ochosi would have more specifics
[05:11] <Unit193> I take that back, it did come, spam ate it.
[05:30] <elky> elfy: good news, the install/try screen showed up fine in a unity live usb. the bad news is that this means it's your problem :P
[07:45] <elfy> elky: mmm - thanks ... not sure what that could be then 
[07:46] <elfy> bluesabre: the different way we have for showing that ? ^^ bug 1419555
[07:47] <elfy> bluesabre: and ack light locker
[07:49] <rww> maybe xfwm's doing window management differently from compiz in some way that causes it to think displaying offscreen is a good idea?
[07:50] <elfy> rww: I'd have no clue - thinking about it - we can test the difference - or those affected can :)
[07:52] <elfy> elfy: pleia2 - can either of you reproduce it with the utopic installer? 
[07:52] <elfy> oh good lord :|
[07:52] <elfy> elky: ^^
[07:53] <elky> :D
[07:53] <elfy> probably a good think we're in wildly differing timezones ... 
[07:53] <elky> not tried with utopic
[07:53] <elfy> :)
[07:53] <elky> i should invite elly here, for triple the fun
[07:53] <elfy> we had issues with no wallpaper in utopic - changed the way that is dealt with in vivid 
[07:53] <elfy> elky: LOL
[07:54] <elky> elfy: it's midnight here, i'll set it to download overnight and test tomorrow morning
[07:54] <elfy> that would be great - thanks :)
[08:01] <elky> i'm rather glad i took a netbook rather than a laptop now :P
[08:01] <elfy> :)
[08:01] <elfy> I was just pleased a bunch of people did some testing for us ;)
[09:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: suggestion: let's skip the screenshot branch for this stable series and just go ahead and release what we have
[09:37] <ochosi> bluesabre: (so basically do what you suggested before already ;))
[13:17] <sidi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11513 <- what is the default Ubuntu fallback icon theme?
[13:18] <sidi> also, generally speaking, if anyone in #xubuntu-devel has a bit of time to spare, now's an excellent time to help Xfce triage bugs / test patches / write patches, as we're aiming to release 4.12 very soon
[13:18] <sidi> https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs is a good place to start
[13:23] <sidi> (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7604 also needs testing, especially from people who have eyesight problems)
[14:38] <brainwash> sidi: I guess it would help to release new point releases / rc candidates
[14:38] <brainwash> which could be packaged and tested in debian/ubuntu
[14:38] <brainwash> and elsewhere ofc
[14:45] <Unit193> Xubuntu is the only one that runs with developer snapshots, Debian does have some in experimental at least.
[14:55] <intherye> Hi all, is Vino the preferred way of Remote Desktop Sharing in Xubuntu? And furthermore, would Xubuntu be affected if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/1271358 gets fixed? (I.e. could Vino be still be configured with the GUI, if the dialog gets moved to unity-control-center?)
[14:57] <Unit193> vino isn't used in Xubuntu, but if the preferences GUI is "dropped" then yes we wouldn't have a UI for it.
[15:02] <intherye> I played around with Vino yesterday, and found that it's really comfortable to set up in Xubuntu with vino-preferences. Sad, if it could not be used anymore like that. Are there any alternatives?
[15:31] <Pwnna> what's the easiest way to compile and use a new version of libxfce4ui?
[15:31] <Pwnna> and be able to rollback?
[15:36] <Pwnna> anyone around?
[15:37] <Unit193> Noooope.
[15:38] <Unit193> I'd personally package it, but /usr/local/ install should be safe enough.
[15:39] <Pwnna> Unit193: how do you package it?
[15:39] <Pwnna> checkinstall?
[15:43] <eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1415683 Add an emblem to an icon on the desktop or removable drive?
[15:43] <Pwnna> how do I check which version of libxfce4ui am i running?
[15:44] <eric_the_idiot> the trace you posted showed a create event caused it
[15:47] <eric_the_idiot> Pwnna, dpkg -s libxfce4ui ?
[15:47] <eric_the_idiot> not sure what the syntax is exactly
[15:47] <Pwnna> i did lsof -p <pid of xfce4-panel>
[15:48] <Pwnna> i'm trying to replace libxfce4ui with my own version, but still have the option to roll back
[15:48] <eric_the_idiot> oh ok
[15:48] <Unit193> apt-cache policy <package>  generally.
[15:58] <Pwnna> how do you build the packages for libxfce4ui even? I'm looking at things like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfce4ui/4.11.1-2ubuntu1/+build/5844280 and getting pretty lost
[15:59] <Pwnna> or can i just make install and then reinstall all those packages later
[16:12] <elfy> bluesabre: did you forget you're setting the next meeting? 
[16:12] <sidi> Pwnna, hey
[16:12] <sidi> Pwnna, build it from git
[16:13] <sidi> and build it into /usr/local
[16:13] <sidi> keep the git tree around
[16:13] <sidi> so you can sudo make uninstall later
[16:14] <sidi> Pwnna, ping me if needing more precise instructions
[16:16] <Unit193> sidi: What about trusty instructions?
[16:17] <sidi> Unit193, i dont remember anymore the debian way
[16:17] <sidi> just telling how i deal with this :p
[16:18] <Unit193> sidi: Hah, bad joke.  12.04 LTS release was named 'precise', 14.04 codenamed 'trusty'. :P
[16:20] <sidi> Unit193, now im laughing at the back of the classroom, fortunately the students didnt notice ;P
[18:01] <pleia2> my favorite part of today so far was when elfy mixed up elfy with elky 
[18:02] <pleia2> bluesabre and brainwash don't seem so bad now, do they? ;)
[18:07] <elfy> pleia2: glad to have provided that moment of entertainment for you ;)
[19:17] <pleia2> elfy: btw, I am sad to report that I didn't get to do any tests yesterday, too busy running around helping everyone else, 6 hours of "lyz, when you have a moment..."
[19:19] <elfy> yep - I realised that :)
[19:19] <elfy> no need for sad :)
[19:19] <pleia2> :)
[19:20] <pleia2> also I don't know what day it is s/yesterday/Sunday
[19:20] <pleia2> yesterday I sat around in a pile of exhauasted goo
[19:21] <elky> pleia2: you did do tests, you confirmed my bug :D
[19:21] <elfy> oh no :|
[19:21] <hobgoblin> right ... 
[19:21] <Unit193> Thankgoodness.
[19:21] <pleia2> ah yes, I loaded up the iso on my netbook, just didn't *complete* a testcase :)
[19:21] <elky> lol
[19:22] <elky> it's something though!
[19:22] <pleia2> indeed!
[19:31] <elfy> that's enough of that 
[19:38] <elky> loading utopic live on the netbook now
[19:39] <elfy> fingers crossed that it works 
[19:39] <elky> would be nice
[19:40] <elfy> yes, it might help narrow the issue down
[19:40] <elky> it works
[19:40] <elfy> right
[19:40] <elky> there's no panel or wallpaper as you mentioned before, but there is the try/install screen
[19:40] <elky> i'll update the bug
[19:41] <elfy> now I wonder if it would have worked when we had the black background instead of wallpaper
[19:43] <elky> there's no panel either, so maybe the panel is "pushing" it out of the way?
[19:44] <elfy> I am now in the awesome position of saying I just run QA for my sins - wouldn't know how to debug this at all :)
[19:45] <Unit193> Trying something here, give me a sec.
[19:45] <elfy> thanks 
[19:45] <elfy> I'm obviously wondering the simple thing here - and whatever we did to deal with the black background is causing it 
[19:46] <elky> that is the obvious conclusion
[19:51] <elky> elfy: "wouldn't know how to debug this at all" ... loading up utopic was your idea, so you seem to have more of a clue than you remember ;)
[19:52] <elfy> heh
[19:52] <elfy> I guess so :)
[19:56] <elky> next question is, is that bug targetting the correct package?
[19:57] <elfy> ubiquity is right for the moment yep
[20:04] <Unit193> Actually download slow, more than a sec.
[20:04] <elfy> :)
[20:45] <ali1234> elfy: the black background is fixed by starting up xfdesktop
[20:52] <Unit193> elfy: And I can't actually reproduce it on my netbook...
[20:56] <rww> what's its resolution?
[20:57] <elfy> ali1234: didn't really expect it to be the cause - but worth a check 
[20:58] <elfy> Unit193: ... 
[21:03] <elky> Unit193: what size is your netbook?
[21:04] <elky> Unit193: so when your desktop loads up, you have the try/install window visible already?
[21:07] <Unit193> A crappy Acer Aspire One 722, 11.6.  And think I read that a bit off, lets see.
[21:10] <elky> yeah 11.6 is going to have a better resolution than 1024x576 or whatever mine is
[21:12] <elfy> elky but you didn't see the same with vivid ubuntu did you say? 
[21:12] <elky> elfy: no the window appears, but it does take 10 minutes for my mouse cursor to appear there
[21:12] <elky> pretty sure that's a different brand of lols though
[21:12] <elfy> heh
[21:12] <elky> (and i'm not kidding about 10m)
[21:13] <elfy> at least you get it to boot - last time I booted ubuntu image I got big home folder fails 
[21:14] <rww> elfy: yours is 1024x600 iirc
[21:14] <rww> erm, elky
[21:14] <elfy> :D
[21:15] <rww> or not, nvm me
[21:15] <elfy> you'll be ok shortly - my bouncer died, so when I crash shortly I'll be gone gone :)
[21:19] <Unit193> Mine is actually better for a change. 0_o
[21:22] <elfy> I'll read the logs in the morning ... 
[22:39] <bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: if I add an emblem to an icon on the desktop, xfdesktop does not crash, and does not display the emblem unitl I F5 it
[22:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, are you aware of the -core dist-upgrade problem?
[22:40] <bluesabre> elfy: didn't forget, was thinking of when would be a good time
[22:40] <bluesabre> also wondering why we never schedule on the weekends
[22:40] <bluesabre> Unit193: I saw a mention of it, can you give me a gist of what it is?
[22:41] <knome> bluesabre, no specific reason
[22:41] <elty> let's have some fun
[22:41] <elky> you'll make them cry
[22:41] <knome> :D
[22:41] <Unit193> elky: identify-msg meakes me happier now.
[22:42] <elky> Unit193: i know what all those words mean individually...
[22:42] <Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so install the core iso or from mini and all is fine, time to upgrade to new release?  upgrade-manager will install xubuntu-desktop metapackage because xubuntu-default-settings is installed.
[22:59] <bluesabre> ack
[22:59] <bluesabre> dang release-upgrader
[23:01] <bluesabre> any good ideas to resolve that?
[23:02] <elky> none that would be appreciated :P
[23:02] <Unit193> 1. Recommend The Debian Way™ to them.  2. Swap it out to point to -core, though this has downsides.  3. Some other hackery for it to choose what meta to select.
[23:03] <Unit193> Pretty much, yep.
[23:03] <Unit193> bluesabre: 3 also depends on if we switch it up so -desktop depends on -core, and is just a layer on top.
[23:08] <bluesabre> the icing on the cake
[23:08] <knome> soo... since when was elky interested about xubuntu? :) (welcome!)
[23:08] <elky> knome: there was a bug jam in sf on the weekend
[23:08] <bluesabre> maybe we have a use case for xubuntu-core-settings?
[23:09] <elky> organised by pleia2 so the obvious happened
[23:09] <knome> heh :)
[23:09] <elky> knome: xubuntu has improved a lot since the last time i had it installed a few years back, i must say
[23:09] <Unit193> bluesabre: Keeping in sync with desktop would be fun, and while it'd fix the upgrade problem it'd also mean we couldn't layer the seeds.
[23:09] <knome> elky, definitely.. :)
[23:10] <elky> doesn't feel like poor man's gnome anymore
[23:10] <knome> (and i hope so)
[23:10] <elky> which it used to
[23:10] <Unit193> elky: Happen to know what version you're talking about?
[23:10] <elky> Unit193: not a clue.
[23:11] <knome> elky, don't tell him, it's a trap. he's going to set you up
[23:11] <Unit193> heh, bummer.
[23:11] <knome> (if you didn't know, i was the previous project lead)
[23:11] <elky> it was definitely after xfce4 :P
[23:12] <Unit193> 4.8 was decent enough, IIRC, and 4.10 was good.
[23:12] <elky> "few" might have been an understatement
[23:13] <Unit193> Figured you were talking back a few, but at the rate Xfce does releases... :P
[23:13] <elky> i'm not sure the year had any 1's in it
[23:14] <elky> s/'//
[23:14] <Unit193> I'm sure I've still got a 8.x or 9.x alt install.
[23:14] <knome> then you should probably blame somebody else than me ;)
[23:14] <Unit193> bluesabre: Any ideas on which way you might be thinking?
[23:14] <elky> Unit193: yeah it was early 4
[23:15] <bluesabre> Unit193: it could be a tweaked install in the same way xubuntu-live-settings is
[23:15] <bluesabre> or perhaps xubuntu-default-settings depends on core-settings and sprinkles a bit on top
[23:15] <elky> knome: though 4.2 was 10 years ago, so maybe not as early as i thought
[23:16] <knome> elky, heh, that's ages ago.
[23:16] <knome> i didn't even contribute to foss back then
[23:16] <elky> yeah i have no idea what one i tried
[23:16] <Unit193> bluesabre: Biggest change I could think of between them would be panel.  But as I said, the desktop seed then couldn't depend on core.
[23:17] <knome> started using xubuntu/xfce in 2007
[23:17] <Unit193> bluesabre: Anywho, that's the state of things right now.
[23:18] <bluesabre> good point, that makes me want to do it like live-settings then
[23:19]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[23:20] <Unit193> FF "soon" too.
[23:23] <knome> elky, sooo... sorry for pestering, but do you think this is just a temporary crush, or something better? :)
[23:23] <elky> knome: lol i don't know. i've been using debian on my laptop for a few months now :P
[23:24] <elky> what's the state of xfce in debian land?
[23:24] <Unit193> 4.10.
[23:24] <knome> elky, relatively good, they have an active maintainer
[23:24] <knome> but yeah, not all the same stuff that we have
[23:24] <elky> same feel as the ubuntu environment?
[23:24] <elky> ah
[23:24] <Unit193> I'd try to pull from Experimental if you can.
[23:24] <knome> same feel? nope, xubuntu has a good load of customizations on top :)
[23:25] <elky> i should look at some point. i'm not that happy with gnome shell
[23:25] <Unit193> elky: Though if you're insane enough to try it, an upgrade from Xubuntu to Debian unstable goes pretty well.
[23:25] <elky> i think i'd get a divorce for attempting that
[23:26] <Unit193> Hah.  Though, it does turn out well in the end!  I've done it twice...
[23:27] <knome> again, don't listen to Unit193...
[23:27] <knome> :P
[23:27] <Unit193> Good plan.  (To be fair, vbox and I thought for sure it'd fail.)
[23:28] <elky> yeah that's probably the only circumstance i'd try it. i'd still get the mocking of a lifetime though
[23:29]  * elky prepares to time how long it takes unity/ubuntu to give her a cursor
[23:29] <elky> (xubuntu is fine, don't worry)
[23:39] <elky> up to 6 minutes.
[23:42] <elky> 9 minutes and waiting
[23:43] <elky> and i just touched the touchpad and there's a cursor now
[23:43] <elky> this is hilarious to me
[23:45] <ali1234> i used to have a computer that wouldn't post unless you moved the mouse
[23:46] <elky> this one was not showing a cursor for a very long time even with touching the touchpad yesterday
[23:46] <elky> i'm basically just figuring out how to describe the issue now
[23:46] <elky> this time i'll touch it every minute
[23:47] <elky> and see if it appears sooner