[00:14]  * pleia2 squeezes a compliment out of someone re: our docs https://plus.google.com/+xubuntu/posts/fghqCAsnFrk (last comment, scroll up for context)
[00:16] <Unit193> Hah, though I liked: "I talk American good.﻿"
[00:23] <ochosi> pleia2: well done
[00:23] <ochosi> Unit193: i prefer hodor.
[00:30] <knome> eh:)
[01:02] <ochosi> Unit193: how would you say dholbach thought this would go down exactly? https://code.launchpad.net/~profzoom/lightdm-gtk-greeter/add-mate-badge/+merge/243069 (comment about adding license info to d/copyright)
[01:02] <ochosi> is that only relevant for the packager or where would we carry this info in bzr?
[01:02] <ochosi> LICENSE file?
[01:06] <Unit193> ochosi: I'd say since he was pinged, he was looking at it from a sponsor prospective, not upstream.  I'd say do what's normal there, in the LICENSE file.
[01:06] <Unit193> Be aware copyright isn't my strong set.
[01:07] <ochosi> so far we don't have a LICENSE file
[01:07] <ochosi> even the AUTHORS file just says "See bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/lightdm-gtk-greeter for the commit history" :D
[01:09] <Unit193> And wow, your readme stinks too.
[01:09] <ochosi> hehe
[01:09] <Unit193> I've seen seperate license files before too, having one in data/ for example.  Not sure that's a good thing, but still.
[01:10] <ochosi> anyway, time to sleep
[01:10] <ochosi> i'll let future me deal with this
[01:10] <ochosi> night all
[01:11] <Unit193> Scumbag past ochosi? :---D
[01:12] <Unit193> ali1234: Thanks for the bump on 1270486.
[01:13] <ali1234> bug 1270486
[01:13] <ali1234> oh that one ... yeah
[04:33] <bluesabre> Unit193: uploaded the new xubuntu-artwork package, let me know when meta/seed is ready to go
[04:34] <Unit193> Great.
[04:36] <bluesabre> going to bed now, back in the morning
[04:36] <Unit193> Alright.  I'll have it ready to go by then, just have to see what deps can go.
[12:06] <elfy> knome: looks like the later time will be cool - biab
[12:13] <brainwosh> ochosi, bug 1421180 affects greybird (and co?)
[12:14] <ochosi> brainwosh: ehm, the comment suggests it's a meld issue
[12:14] <ochosi> i don't really care about app bugs in the theme, if i would, it would be twice the size
[12:17] <brainwosh> right, maybe they'll fix it eventually
[12:20] <bluesabre> ochosi: what causes our fallback color to be black in this case?
[12:21] <ochosi> in what case?
[12:24] <bluesabre> in any unexpected case (meld, blueman, others maybe)
[12:24] <elfy> hi peeps
[12:25] <bluesabre> when widget backgrounds are black (and not supposed to be)
[12:25] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[12:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: i don't think that's really us doing that
[12:26] <bluesabre> just wondering if there is some fallback color that is bleeding through in this case, since adwaita is usually not black in the same instance
[12:28] <ochosi> usually?
[12:28] <ochosi> well i dunno, and tbh if apps screw up, i don't care ;)
[12:28] <bluesabre> lol
[12:29] <ochosi> all will be better as soon as it's all SASS
[12:29] <elfy> I'd agree unless it's one I use :p
[12:29] <bluesabre> seeing how long it takes numix to be sass, this feels like xfce releases
[12:30] <ochosi> hehe
[12:30] <ochosi> well, even satya is busy these days
[12:30] <bluesabre> yup
[12:30] <bluesabre> numix is growing up
[12:32] <ochosi> not only that, it's also RL and real work ;)
[12:33] <bluesabre> :)
[12:47] <knome> elfy, good good :)
[14:08] <knome> elfy, i'll quickly go pick up some groceries, be back right after that :)
[14:13] <elfy> okey doke
[14:31] <knome> here i am :)
[14:32] <knome> shall we start with question 1 ?
[14:32] <elfy> be right with you 
[14:33] <knome> mhm
[14:34] <elfy> ok :)
[14:35] <knome> see my mods in the pad
[14:35] <elfy> I am :)
[14:37] <elfy> knome: re that current one 
[14:37] <knome> yep?
[14:37] <elfy> they are different - we're trying to find out about our users
[14:37] <knome> ok ;)
[14:37] <elfy> using xubuntu for sys admin is not the same as maintaining for others
[14:38] <knome> ok, so would the options in q1 cover the q2 now?
[14:38] <elfy> mmm
[14:39] <elfy> possibly 
[14:39] <knome> so should we drop q2?
[14:39] <elfy> q1 I would drop
[14:40] <knome> huh? :)
[14:40] <knome> of, question one
[14:40] <knome> i meant
[14:40] <elfy> I prefer gui to cli 
[14:40] <knome> question 2) of the poll :D
[14:40] <elfy> keep that 
[14:40] <knome> not option 1/2
[14:40] <knome> ok
[14:40] <knome> then keep power user too :P
[14:41] <knome> i'd probably mix those questions around
[14:41] <knome> eh, the options :P
[14:41] <elfy> yea 
[14:41] <knome> re: your comment, true, but it might also be windows questions they are asked
[14:41] <knome> i'd keep that 
[14:41] <elfy> let's not do that just yer :)
[14:44] <elfy> don't add any more - any longer and I'd just ignore it and move on :)
[14:44] <knome> lol
[14:44] <bluesabre> I'm embarrassed, a lot of mugshot is really bad code :(
[14:44] <knome> yeah, i thought that was important though
[14:44] <bluesabre> for now
[14:44] <knome> not sure how important the producing digital media is
[14:45] <elfy> that's why those 2 weren't in the list I left
[14:45] <elfy> that and software dev
[14:45] <knome> mhm
[14:46] <elfy> even if people say they do - we're not going to be doing anything specific for them I guess 
[14:46] <knome> yeah, i guess
[14:46] <knome> that's why i'm wondering why they should be in question 2)
[14:46] <knome> the where and how
[14:46] <elfy> just lose cli from q2
[14:47] <elfy> then put them in different places in the list later
[14:47] <knome> thats *option* 2
[14:47] <knome> i'm talking about *question* 2
[14:47] <knome> 2) Where and how do you use xubuntu? (optional)
[14:47] <elfy> I'm not even sure we need that 
[14:47] <knome> exactly
[14:48] <knome> but if we drop it, maybe we want to ask if people use xubuntu for software development
[14:48] <elfy> which is why I'd [s][/s] 
[14:48] <knome> that's interesting for me
[14:48] <knome> right, we're just confusing each other again :P
[14:48] <elfy> :D
[14:48] <knome> here
[14:49] <elfy> ok - so q1 :)
[14:50] <elfy> I'm happy with those - just need shuffling about 
[14:50] <knome> yep
[14:50] <elfy> and q2 now as well :p
[14:50] <knome> i guess we'll be using google forms for this
[14:50] <knome> i'll just use the "shuffle" option there
[14:51] <knome> so everybody gets them in random order
[14:51] <elfy> works for me 
[14:53] <elfy> and we shouldn't do more than get people to agree or disagree 
[14:53] <knome> yep
[14:54] <knome> i'm making them check the boxes if they agree
[14:54] <knome> if they disagree, just don't select that
[14:54] <elfy> those ones with 1 to 5 - I just decide if I agree or not and give 1 or 5 :p
[14:55] <knome> ;)
[14:55] <knome> yeah, it's much harder
[14:56] <elfy> :)
[14:59] <knome> ok, let's see how i can share that poll with you
[14:59] <knome> what's your gmail email again?
[15:00] <elfy> elfyesq
[15:00] <knome> ta
[15:02] <knome> elfy, should have edit permissions now
[15:02] <elfy> looks like I do
[15:03] <knome> elfy, not that! :P
[15:03] <elfy> :D
[15:03] <knome> it's in the advanced settings for the first question
[15:03] <knome> what you changed might have popped age first
[15:03] <elfy> lol
[15:04] <elfy> aah yes, see it now 
[15:05] <elfy> is there only a short character limit? 
[15:05] <knome> for what?
[15:05] <knome> probably not, the edit box is just small
[15:05] <elfy> q1 option 6 
[15:05] <knome> if it's what i think it is, it's wrapping over to next line
[15:06] <elfy> yep - seeing that 
[15:09] <elfy> only thing I'm wondering here is we'll not see if people strongly disagree 
[15:10] <elfy> if I was answering - I'd strongly disagree with default entertainment software for example
[15:10] <knome> right...
[15:10] <elfy> though we're likely to pick that up with the next poll 
[15:10] <knome> yeah
[15:11] <knome> i'm thinking: don't overcomplicate
[15:11] <elfy> yep 
[15:11] <knome> that's a long list already
[15:11] <elfy> agree
[15:11] <knome> it's relatively easy to go through it and see if you agree with it
[15:11] <knome> but harder if you have to think if you agree, disagree, or don't care
[15:11] <elfy> the next one - we'll have defauls apps - we can have a freeform box I assume
[15:12] <knome> we can have anything
[15:12] <elfy> eg - gmb - remove - install clementine
[15:12] <elfy> that kind of thing
[15:12] <elfy> but - back to today :p
[15:12] <knome> hehe
[15:12] <knome> so what do you think about the contact info section?
[15:12] <elfy> just looking now 
[15:14] <elfy> ok - just going to give it all a read and double check 
[15:14] <knome> yep
[15:14] <knome> slimy master should be here soon
[15:14] <elfy> lol
[15:17] <elfy> knome: ok looks good - except confirmation page - does that mean people can submit more than once? 
[15:17] <elfy> if so - not sure about that
[15:17] <knome> removed that
[15:17] <knome> but they can submit twice anyway
[15:18] <knome> since we aren't requiring login
[15:18] <elfy> yea ok, but I'd rather not make it obvious :)
[15:18] <knome> sure
[15:18] <knome> i was on the edge with that
[15:18] <elfy> did you see I added 'themselves' ?
[15:18] <elfy> at top 
[15:19] <knome> that's good
[15:19] <elfy> ok - I think send that :)
[15:20] <elfy> where are we sending it - both m/l and all the social stuff?
[15:20] <knome> yeah
[15:21] <elfy> not sure of the name ... 
[15:22] <elfy> going to got put kettle on and think about that 
[15:22] <knome> maybe something on sharing/handing the results
[15:23] <elfy> disclaimer type thing ?
[15:23] <knome> something like that
[15:23] <knome> and our schedule in handling ita
[15:23] <knome> -a
[15:24] <knome> and if we will make the results public
[15:24] <knome> and stuff
[15:24] <knome> i don't really know how we want to handle that, might want to wait pleia2 for input
[15:24] <elfy> yep 
[15:25] <elfy> better name :)
[15:25] <knome> also added a subsection header
[15:25] <knome> works better if we add that disclaimer stuff at the top
[15:25] <elfy> yes 
[15:27] <elfy> I think - that's all good, just get some input from pleia2 on those issues. Not sure when - off to foreign again iirc :)
[15:27] <knome> heh
[15:27] <knome> she'll get the pings
[15:27] <elfy> yep :)
[15:27] <knome> but thanks for this
[15:27] <knome> now we're so much closer :)
[15:27] <elfy> yea 
[15:28] <elfy> I'll make a start on the next one - get the ground work done
[15:28] <knome> since the slimy one isn't here, i'll be off for a short while to try to prepare dinner
[15:28] <knome> yep, ta
[15:29] <elfy> ok - cya bit later :)
[15:30] <slickymaster> hey guys
[15:30] <slickymaster> sorry for the delay
[15:30] <elfy> hi slickymaster :)
[15:30] <slickymaster> the traffic is insane and on top of that we're under this massive dome of fog
[15:31] <slickymaster> hey elfy 
[15:31] <slickymaster> I presume the poll sprint is over?
[15:31] <elfy> yep 
[15:31] <slickymaster> is there anything else needed for that?
[15:32] <elfy> not right now nope 
[15:33] <elfy> I'll hang about for the slideshow one too
[15:34] <slickymaster> is knome mia?
[15:34] <elfy> just nipped off to prep food while waiting for you :)
[15:34] <slickymaster> ok
[15:35] <elfy> slickymaster: so how is it I can run the dev slideshow, what to install ? how to run it ?
[15:35] <slickymaster> I'll have to leave at about 17:30 UTC to pick up the little one at his friend's birthday party
[15:35] <elfy> don't do it often enough :)
[15:35] <slickymaster> elfy: push the branch
[15:36] <slickymaster> and then run it locally
[15:36] <slickymaster> give me a sec and I'll provide the url of the branch
[15:36] <elfy> yea ... 
[15:36] <elfy> oh got that I think https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes
[15:36] <slickymaster> no, that one is incomplete
[15:37] <slickymaster> that's the one that only have the changes knome and I have planned so far
[15:37] <slickymaster> if you want the complete one -> bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[15:37] <elfy> ta
[15:38] <slickymaster> elfy, also http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow
[15:38] <elfy> when you get there you should see I am already :p
[15:39] <slickymaster> yeah :)
[15:40] <knome> i'm here
[15:40] <slickymaster> elfy: once you branched,  cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/
[15:41] <elfy> how to run slideshow? 
[15:41] <knome> elfy, ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
[15:41] <slickymaster> and then ./test-slideshow.sh 
[15:41] <elfy> ta
[15:41] <slickymaster> hey knome 
[15:41] <knome> slickymaster, ^ note you can add the paremeter, so you don't need to pick from the list..
[15:41] <slickymaster> I know knome 
[15:42] <knome> you should be able to do "./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu pt" now as well..
[15:42] <elfy> just 2 slides so far - is that right? 
[15:42] <slickymaster> let me try it
[15:42] <knome> elfy, in the new one, yeah
[15:42] <slickymaster> yeah, that's what I was saying elfy 
[15:42] <elfy> this is the one at lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[15:43] <knome> elfy, that's wrong then...
[15:43]  * knome wonders if he pushed to main then
[15:43] <knome> oops.
[15:44] <slickymaster> yes, I just branched and elfy is right knome 
[15:44] <elfy> well I like the background to slide #2 :p
[15:44] <knome> i noticed
[15:46] <knome> elfy, pull again
[15:48] <elfy> k
[15:48] <knome> should get the pink one back :P
[15:48] <elfy> yep :)
[15:49] <slickymaster> yeah, evrything is correct now
[15:50] <slickymaster> so, shall we start at the beginning?
[15:50] <slickymaster> slide 1?
[15:50] <knome> i guess that's one way to face this...
[15:51] <knome> do we want to keep the old text/image?
[15:51] <slickymaster> I would go with a yes on this one
[15:51] <knome> fwiw, i'm planning some new image stuff for the website, it might affect this
[15:51] <knome> but we'll only know when it's ready
[15:52] <knome> there's no ETA
[15:52] <knome> but it'll be a relatively simple drop in anyway
[15:52] <knome> for this slide
[15:52] <slickymaster> we still have at least a month and a few weeks left, in case we want to add any changes later
[15:52] <elfy> then currently it can be left alone 
[15:53] <slickymaster> ok, moving then to the panel slide
[15:54] <knome> i think that's relatively good as it is
[15:54] <knome> is there something else in the desktop we want to highlight?
[15:55] <elfy> assuming that no changes are in the pipeline 
[15:55] <knome> not that i know of
[15:55] <slickymaster> I would chance the bottom string from "You can customize the panel..." to "Customize your panel...."
[15:55] <knome> and even if we decide to change the panel, we can just use the same idea
[15:55] <slickymaster> knome, elfy ^^^
[15:55] <elfy> might need updating for the panel - doesn't power show default now?
[15:55] <slickymaster> yes, it does elfy 
[15:55] <knome> elfy, for desktops too?
[15:56] <slickymaster> yes knome 
[15:56] <knome> okay
[15:56] <elfy> pretty sure I removed it
[15:56] <knome> ok
[15:56] <slickymaster> did you guys saw my proposal to change the bottom string?
[15:56] <slickymaster> from "You can customize the panel..." to "Customize your panel...."
[15:57] <elfy> and ack slickymaster - would read beter as Customisze your panel ... I think 
[15:57] <knome> slickymaster, if you don't mind, do all the text changes in the main branch
[15:57] <slickymaster> most of the other slides we always address users directly
[15:57] <slickymaster> ok, I'll do them
[15:57] <knome> thanks
[15:57] <slickymaster> later on
[15:57] <knome> i'll just rebase to what that is once i drop the new features in
[15:58] <knome> slickymaster, note the work items section on the pad :P
[15:58] <knome> slickymaster, below your todo...
[15:58] <slickymaster> lol
[16:01] <slickymaster> ok, third slide
[16:01] <knome> do we want to keep the desktop customization as the second slide, or move the personalization stuff before it?
[16:01] <knome> with the additional user accounts notice
[16:01] <knome> maybe with that it's fit for later
[16:01] <slickymaster> that would be logical
[16:02] <knome> maybe we should check the order later
[16:02] <slickymaster> it all falls under the same category/usability
[16:02] <slickymaster> yes
[16:02] <knome> so slide three is the apps
[16:02] <slickymaster> and it's where the major improvement first start
[16:02] <elfy> just a thought here 
[16:03] <slickymaster> go elfy 
[16:03] <elfy> wouldn't it be logical to have slides in a similar order to using the OS
[16:03] <knome> elfy, that's what i'm thinking
[16:03] <elfy> eg you've got login first - so that slide before panel 
[16:03] <elfy> then panel - then desktop - then whisker
[16:04] <slickymaster> agree
[16:04] <elfy> maybe have the ready to go one close to the beginning 
[16:04] <knome> elfy, but where does creating new accounts fall into?
[16:05] <elfy> imo - that would be after you've fiddled with your panel and desktop 
[16:05] <knome> ok
[16:05] <slickymaster> but before or after the whisker one?
[16:05] <knome> that's a good logic to follow
[16:05] <knome> maybe we should concentrate on the slides first though, to know what we're saying in them :P
[16:06] <elfy> :)
[16:06] <slickymaster> getting back into the slides, do you want to work them in the sequence they are now, or do you want to jump to what we think their sequence will be?
[16:07]  * knome shrugs
[16:07] <knome> i'll try to focus more on the non-content side
[16:07]  * slickymaster too
[16:07] <knome> (this time)
[16:07] <elfy> I'd work on what is current order
[16:07] <knome> i mean, i'm interested in the content, but i need to know the changes we want to technically make sooner
[16:08] <slickymaster> ok, so the next candidate is the whisker one, currently it's the third one
[16:08] <knome> i'm thinking the searchable app menu might be a bit over the top
[16:09] <slickymaster> you mean in terms of spacial placement knome ?
[16:09] <knome> no placement
[16:10] <knome> would people really poke that?
[16:10] <slickymaster> or in terms of using it/havinf it? 
[16:10] <knome> is it good to drag their attention to playing with that?
[16:10] <knome> instead of the content in some other slides, like getting help
[16:10] <slickymaster> not probably, but I would like to see it there
[16:10] <knome> also the screenshot of the menu needs to be relatively static
[16:11] <elfy> added current and proposal to bottom of pad
[16:11] <knome> elfy, thanks
[16:11] <slickymaster> yeah, I'm +1 on your proposal elfy 
[16:12] <elfy> bit more logic to it perhaps
[16:12] <knome> elfy, if you want to try it, go to slideshows/xubuntu/slides
[16:12] <knome> elfy, and open index.html
[16:13] <knome> elfy, then simply reorder the div's inside the <div id="slideshow">
[16:13] <elfy> ok 
[16:14] <slickymaster> getting back to slide three, the addittion or not of the searchable app menu will influence the amount of thext
[16:14] <slickymaster> * text
[16:14] <knome> yes
[16:14] <slickymaster> there, so we do have to decide if it's a go on it, or not
[16:15] <knome> the current text is a bit of take it or leave it
[16:15] <slickymaster> what do you me knome?
[16:16] <knome> i mean that... it's okay, but if it's removed, it's not a huge loss either
[16:16] <slickymaster> right, I'll get this one on my todo also
[16:17] <knome> don't know what's to say about whiskermenu really
[16:17] <slickymaster> the image itself has to be updated, regardeles of everything
[16:17] <knome> would make sense to group it with the apps
[16:18] <slickymaster> the one I don't like?
[16:18] <knome> lol
[16:18] <knome> well it can be something completely different than any of the slides now
[16:19] <slickymaster> I'm afraid that one might end up way to cluttered 
[16:19] <knome> do we really need a whisker screenshot?
[16:19] <knome> we're already telling the people how to get to their menu on the panel slide
[16:21] <slickymaster> now I don't think we do
[16:21] <knome> so there you go, where's the clutter? :)
[16:21] <slickymaster> it was added because it was new and because we added it in a LTS release
[16:21] <knome> maybe we can group the stuff in the apps slide differently
[16:22] <slickymaster> that where I'm afraid the clutter might come up knome 
[16:22] <knome> eg. have bigger icons for the apps, like ff, tb and pidgin together
[16:22]  * knome shrugs
[16:22] <knome> we won't know before we try
[16:23] <slickymaster> I do agree with your reasoning knome, what I 'm afraid is that the app slide might end up a wall of icons and labels beside them
[16:23] <slickymaster> no we won't
[16:23] <knome> there's not many more ways to show a bunch of apps
[16:23] <slickymaster> the only salvation that slide can have is in the hands of its designer
[16:24] <knome> we can also make the slideshow somehow interactive
[16:24] <knome> show the app icons only when hovering a group name or sth
[16:24] <slickymaster> I like that
[16:24] <slickymaster> and since we're dropping the searchable app interaction
[16:25] <slickymaster> we might as well do it that one
[16:25] <knome> yeah, this one is less obtrusive
[16:26] <slickymaster> sorry guys, but can we have a 30 minute break?
[16:26] <knome> yep
[16:26] <knome> i was thinking the exactly same thing
[16:26] <knome> i need to get food
[16:26] <slickymaster> I do have to pick up my kid at the party
[16:27] <knome> hf doing that :P
[16:27] <slickymaster> ok, lol
[16:27] <slickymaster> brb ->
[16:42] <elfy> that slideshow order does look ok to me when actually running it
[17:54] <slickymaster> and back
[18:00] <knome> heh
[18:00] <knome> that wasn't 30 mins!
[18:01] <slickymaster> you wouldn't belief how chaotic traffic is knome 
[18:01] <slickymaster> * believe
[18:01] <slickymaster> so, want to continue ?
[18:03] <knome> i'm actually a bid headachy so maybe some other day :/
[18:04] <slickymaster> ok, no problem knome, I'll added some ideas to the pad as they come up
[18:04] <slickymaster> get some rest 
[18:04] <knome> ok, good
[18:04] <knome> i will
[18:05] <slickymaster> get better knome 
[18:05] <slimjimflim> hi guys, i don't care enough to make an account and submit an official bug report, but there's a typo in 14.04 (maybe only xfce) when you plug in your power cable.  "X hour X minutes until is fully charged."  I know this isn't earth-shattering, but i'm feeling a little OCD grammar-nazish today.
[18:06] <slimjimflim> i bet it'd be a pita to check if hours > 1 and make hour plural...same with minute(s).
[18:07] <slimjimflim> it'd be trivial to add an 'it' in there though
[18:08] <slimjimflim> actually, the plurality thing isn't an actual bug, just the 'is' ..my bad
[18:08] <slimjimflim> ...the missing 'it' even
[18:11] <holstein> slimjimflim: so, you want someone to file a bug on your behalf?
[18:41] <slimjimflim> what it is
[18:41] <slimjimflim> holstein: ^
[18:41] <holstein> slimjimflim: sure, i see it.. you want someone to post the bug on your behalf?
[18:41] <slimjimflim> that would be great
[18:42] <holstein> i think i would send an email to the list.. personally, i would try and see if its coming from upstream, in which case, i would address it there
[18:42] <holstein> xfce, or debian..
[18:42] <holstein> then, the "fix" would just trickle down
[18:43] <slimjimflim> can you replicate it?
[18:44] <holstein> slimjimflim: i can look, when im near stock xubuntu.. 
[18:45] <slimjimflim> k im afk
[18:47] <brainwash> slimjimflim: are you talking about the indicator popup message?
[18:49] <brainwash> also, it takes only some minutes to create an account and file a report
[19:02] <Noskcaj> Is anyone packaging xfwm4 and xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin's updates?
[19:39] <pleia2> elfy, knome - too busy prepping for trip tomorrow to read whole sprint log, what did you want my input on? just disclaimer for results?
[19:39] <pleia2> we're not offering any goodies (no need for name/contact info), and will probably use a google form to collect results (no access to whose IP connected, so quite anonymous for us!)
[19:40] <pleia2> so we can confidently say that the results will be shared, but unless you specifically say who you are for some reason, it's anonymous
[19:44] <knome> pleia2, remind me of your google email and i'll share the form with you
[19:45] <knome> pleia2, and to answer your question, yes, we pretty much wanted your input on the disclaimer
[19:46] <knome> pleia2, and we are not collecting names or have any freeform text fields, but we do have an optional box for email if you want to know when the next poll is published
[19:47] <knome> pleia2, (and if you wanted to be contacted on information on contributing)
[19:47] <pleia2> lyz@princessleia.com
[19:48] <knome> shared with you
[19:49] <knome> maybe we should add one more field to the contact stuff
[19:49] <knome> [ ] i want to know when the poll results are published
[19:50] <pleia2> yeah
[19:51] <pleia2> I made some text changes
[19:51] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Can you please sponsor lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfwm4/4.11.3 and lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/1.4.3
[19:51] <knome> pleia2, noticed, thanks
[19:52] <Unit193> Well I was going to say I can/kind of did xfwm, but that works too.
[19:52] <knome> pleia2, you happy with the age brackets?
[19:53] <Noskcaj> Unit193, were there any changes i didn't include that you did
[19:53] <pleia2> knome: yeah that's fine
[19:53] <brainwash> Noskcaj, Unit193: won't debian do the packaging any time soon?
[19:53] <Noskcaj> brainwash, freeze stuff
[19:53] <knome> pleia2, good!
[19:53] <knome> pleia2, anything else? :)
[19:53] <Noskcaj> and we have a deadline
[19:54] <pleia2> knome: lgtm
[19:54] <Noskcaj> Unit193, Also, where you going to that SRU paperwork or should i?
[19:54] <brainwash> Noskcaj: ah ok, thought that it has to be something with the freeze
[19:54] <Noskcaj> brainwash, I do need to forward all our changes back to debian, but i think it's better to wait for unfreeze or the 4.12 release
[19:55] <knome> pleia2, should we do a blog post on it, or do you think just mailing list and social media is good?
[19:55] <pleia2> knome: I think just mailing list and social media is good
[19:55] <knome> ok
[19:56] <pleia2> knome: I figure we'll share it a bunch of times over the next few weeks
[19:56] <knome> both -users and -devel i suppose?
[19:56] <pleia2> yeah, but two emails
[19:56] <pleia2> so we don't get crazy -devel queue of replyall
[19:57] <knome> lol
[19:57] <knome> yeah, but can probably be sameish email
[19:57] <pleia2> yeah
[19:58] <Unit193> brainwash: It's development releases, so would be in experimental only anyway, but the focus there is to get all set for jessie.
[20:17] <brainwash> Noskcaj: bug 1315623 fixed by 4.11.3
[20:19] <brainwash> bug 1307209 may be a dupe (too)
[20:25] <Noskcaj> and bug 1292122
[20:28] <brainwash> it's the same core issue, just described in different ways :)
[20:30] <Noskcaj> yeah, so the oldest bug is now the master bug
[20:31] <brainwash> nice
[20:32] <brainwash> can you mark bug 1301873 as wishlist please?
[20:33] <Noskcaj> done
[20:34] <brainwash> thanks
[20:34] <Noskcaj> You should go for triage rights soon brainwash 
[20:34] <brainwash> "soon"
[20:34] <Noskcaj> :)
[20:34] <Noskcaj> Like i will get MOTU "soon"
[20:35] <brainwash> heh :>
[20:35] <brainwash> team "soon"
[20:35] <Unit193> And how I'll get packageset "soon" :D
[20:37] <knome> pleia2, will you be around in the next few hours?
[20:56] <pleia2> knome: not really, have much to do today before my trip
[20:59] <knome> mkay
[20:59] <knome> i'll ping you when you can social mediaize then and you do it when you have time
[21:03] <pleia2> sounds good
[21:55] <knome> pleia2, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010630.html
[21:55] <knome> i'll tweet too
[21:57] <knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/566717931447668737
[21:59] <knome> oh my word
[22:00] <knome> the format in which the results are is crap
[22:00] <knome> hooray!
[22:00] <knome> the column for the answers is a comma-delimited list of the answers :))
[22:00] <knome> 4 responses already.
[22:05] <Unit193> knome: "No translations found" "Translator data unavailable"?
[22:06] <knome> i'd say the latter
[22:06] <Unit193> I mean =>
[22:06] <Unit193> knome: Think of anything better?
[22:06]  * knome bows :P
[22:06] <knome> hmm
[22:06] <knome> well the other option is to say
[22:07] <knome> "Unable to parse translator data, see Launchpad" or sth
[22:07] <knome> but then i would prefer to have a link to a page in launchpad that has the translator credits for that language
[22:08] <knome> that shouldn't be too hard though
[22:08] <Unit193> Have fun.
[22:08] <knome> hah.
[22:09] <knome> i thought you'd do that
[22:09] <knome> ;)
[22:09] <Unit193> Actually, it's easier for me to fix it than to tell you to.. :P
[22:09] <knome> yes
[22:10] <Unit193> Except, I don't know docbook and don't want to...  What tag for a link and to get it to say 'vivid'?
[22:11] <knome> <ulink url="URL">linktext</ulink>
[22:12] <knome> we aren't storing the codename information
[22:12] <knome> but we can add that
[22:13] <Unit193> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+details vivid needs to be in the link. :3
[22:13] <knome> i know
[22:13] <knome> but there isn't a way to get that currently.
[22:13] <knome> as i said, we can add it
[22:13] <knome> just have to remember to update that...
[22:15] <knome> though...
[22:15] <knome> it'd be better if we knew why that's failing.
[22:18] <knome> Noskcaj, you around?
[22:18] <Noskcaj> knome, yeah
[22:19] <knome> Noskcaj, just wanted to check if you checked any of the checkboxes after the email link?
[22:19] <knome> because i don't see any selection, if that is broken, i'll have to fix it..
[22:19] <Noskcaj> i ticked all but 2 i think
[22:19] <knome> no i mean below the email one
[22:20] <knome> i see your survey results
[22:20] <Noskcaj> i ticked none of them
[22:20] <knome> ok
[22:20] <knome> then it's probably fine :)
[22:20] <Unit193> knome: Sure, but unless you can find someone that knows...
[22:20] <knome> Unit193, it just feels weird that it fails build time
[22:21] <Unit193> chroot, something is missing.
[22:21] <knome> no results on your debugging activities?
[22:21] <knome> right
[22:22] <Unit193> Well, not really no.
[22:22] <knome> can we add more debug stuff that would help us?
[22:22] <Unit193> Like?
[22:22] <Unit193> I tried bumping off to Sean since he's lead dev, but...
[22:23] <knome> how would i know?
[22:23] <Unit193> "doing a serie of surveys." +s
[22:24] <Unit193> knome: Still, this is better than the alternative.
[22:27] <knome> alt what?
[22:31] <Unit193> Breaking verification.
[22:33] <Unit193> Bah, so no I don't know how to use ENTs. :(
[22:35] <knome> once it's defined in xubuntu.ent like others, do &entity-name;
[22:37] <Unit193> Right, did that.  I didn't know it wasn't included in translators.xml
[22:38] <Unit193> Well that wasn't it, oh well.
[22:40] <Unit193> Oh forget it, who cares about translators? :P
[22:41] <knome> nooo
[22:41] <knome> fix eeeeeet
[22:42] <Unit193> I don't know how, either current-codename isn't defined, or I'm not permitted to include the entities there. :P
[22:43] <knome> did you define current-codename?
[22:43] <Unit193> Yep.
[22:43] <Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/e/credits-license.html also, detect a problem with the concept anyway?
[22:44] <knome> yes and no
[22:44] <knome> this shouldn't happen
[22:44] <knome> if it does, well, too bad if the message is in english..
[22:46] <Unit193> "Shouldn't"
[22:46] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/wDx2piemISaYE4XnJJoM/
[22:47] <knome> you're missing the point you asked about
[22:47] <knome> well that's... working as well :P
[22:47] <Unit193> Sorry what?  And yeah, not saying it's pretty, but it does work.
[22:49] <knome> i guess it doesn't matter where we store that information
[22:49] <Unit193> Well, not great to have it in that script, but needed something.
[22:50] <knome> can we get that from lsb_release?
[22:50] <knome> lsb_release -c -s
[22:50] <Unit193> Of course, but that'd be the current system, not what branch you're building from.
[22:51] <Unit193> Which I suppose if this problem is only triggered by the buildds... :/
[22:51] <knome> mhm.
[22:51] <Unit193> Means adding another build-dep.
[22:53] <knome> yes, i'd rather fix this without this stupid fallback too
[22:53] <Unit193> And in case you didn't see, s/nm-tool/nmcli device show/.   Sure, and I get that, but I think the fallback is a better option than verification failing.
[22:54] <knome> "Unable to parse translator data. See the list of translators per language at <ulink url="https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs">Launchpad</ulink>."
[22:54] <knome> that's somewhat crappy, but it's a fallback
[22:57] <Unit193> Meh.
[22:57] <knome> i know
[23:00] <Unit193> But as you said, it's a fallback.  Want me to push it?
[23:00] <knome> meeeeeh
[23:00] <knome> i guess so
[23:01] <knome> would be really nice to know what's happening there though
[23:01] <knome> want to ask Mirv? (:
[23:02] <Unit193> He's busy with a Qt merge.
[23:02] <Unit193> Or last I knew.
[23:03] <knome> well this is a bug, not subject to FF or anything like that.
[23:04] <Unit193> Sure..
[23:04] <Unit193> So should I not push it?
[23:05] <knome> no, it's ok to have a semi-sensible fallback
[23:05] <knome> but we should try to fix the original issue as well
[23:13] <knome> Unit193, ...aaand merged
[23:13] <Unit193> Danke.
[23:13] <knome> thank you
[23:17] <Unit193> Actually, any reason this can't be merged as-is?  http://paste.openstack.org/show/pY8qOHTqWpM277rBtt94/  it adds the targets, but doesn't set it to use them at any time.
[23:19] <knome> it's a bit weird to include that if we don't ever intend to use it
[23:21] <Unit193> Meh.
[23:21] <Unit193> Also, http://paste.openstack.org/show/J48pvmzwDypq8RXFgdxZ
[23:21] <knome> muh.
[23:21] <knome> wfm, do a MP
[23:22] <knome> i'm hungry :|
[23:28] <brainwash> did/does anyone work on a greybird variant with thicker window borders?
[23:28] <brainwash> http://sevkeifert.blogspot.de/2014/12/increase-window-border-size-in-xubuntu.html
[23:29] <Unit193> knome: Generally because 1. Means I can clean up local.  2. Doesn't have to stay in a seperate branch.  3. If some user wants to build it, makes it either easier for us to direct him, or just easier for him.  4. If someone wants to do a community contributation, easier to do so.
[23:30] <knome> Unit193, put it in scripts?
[23:31] <Unit193> It's in the makefiles, pretty clean.
[23:31] <knome> brainwash, it's in the TODO list, but not very high
[23:32] <brainwash> knome: does anyone work on it or assigned to the task?
[23:32] <knome> no
[23:33] <brainwash> the result looks great (screenshot) and this would make many users even happier
[23:33] <brainwash> many do complain about the 1px borders :)
[23:34] <knome> the greybird code is maintained in github, you can do a merge request
[23:36]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[23:37] <knome> Unit193, well oooookay, put it in a MP
[23:37] <Unit193> Hah. :P
[23:37] <knome> maybe you can add a comment that it is community stuff, eg. not official, in the makefile
[23:37] <Unit193> Well, you can always ignore it..
[23:39] <Unit193> Erm, stupid bzr...
[23:39] <knome> the stupidness lies in the user
[23:39] <Unit193> Well, yes. :P
[23:40] <knome> will you push to the same repository?
[23:40] <Unit193> knome: I didn't so it'd be easier to ignore..  But yes, I can.
[23:41] <knome> well do since i'm going to merge it now
[23:41] <knome> :P
[23:42] <Unit193> Pushed, do I need to re-merge or something? :3
[23:42] <knome> nope
[23:43] <Unit193> \o/
[23:44] <knome> Unit193, merged. did this close a work item?
[23:45] <Unit193> [knome] Briefly investigate possibilities to export DocBook to other formats  but that's already DONE.
[23:45] <knome> right
[23:45] <knome> i was wondering the nm-tool part
[23:45] <knome> but maybe there wasn't a work item for that
[23:46] <Unit193> Thought there was something, yeah..
[23:46] <mozmck> Hi, if I were to build a live CD based on Xubuntu, but with an added application and a realtime kernel as default, would I need to remove all the Xubuntu branding?
[23:47] <Unit193> mozmck: Do you plan to distribute it?
[23:47] <mozmck> yes
[23:48] <knome> mozmck, then you will need to remove the xubuntu branding
[23:48] <Unit193> Generally speaking that'd be a good idea.  I'd also make sure to note that #xubuntu and #ubuntu don't support it.
[23:48] <knome> yes, noting that the documentation and installer slideshow imply that
[23:49] <mozmck> ok, I thought that might be the case.  Is there a document anywhere that tells where all the branding is?
[23:49] <knome> nope
[23:50] <knome> the xubuntu-* packages are a good place to start
[23:50] <mozmck> bummer.  There are enough distros around based on others that I figured somebody made notes on that.
[23:51] <mozmck> thanks for the info though.
[23:51] <knome> since we don't really encourage derivatives (we'd rather see people contribute back to (x)ubuntu), it's not our priority to list those packages
[23:51] <Unit193> Besides ubiquity slideshow and the /usr/share/pixmaps/xubuntu-logo.png what else can you think of?
[23:51] <knome> distributor-logo in icon themes?
[23:52] <knome> debian installer
[23:52] <knome> then all the xubuntu-* packages
[23:52] <Unit193> Eh, default-settings is pretty clean.
[23:52] <knome> example content maybe
[23:52] <Unit193> mozmck: What additional packages, btw?
[23:52] <Unit193> knome: Saddest is the docs, because they're great but of course Xubuntu geared.
[23:52] <mozmck> linuxcnc primarily
[23:53] <Unit193> Hrm, seemingly unpackaged.
[23:53] <mozmck> and it requires rtai and an rtai enabled kernel, and also a preempt-rt kernel
[23:53] <knome> docs is relatively easily portble
[23:53] <mozmck> it's packaged, but not in *buntu
[23:54] <Unit193> UbuntuStudio only has a lowlat kernel, not realtime.
[23:54] <knome> mozmck, what about trying to help it get packaged in ubuntu instead of using time to create a new derivative?
[23:54] <Unit193> A kernel?  Ehh.
[23:54] <Unit193> http://bugs.debian.org/552772
[23:55] <knome> i believe the US team is working to get the regular kernel use parameters for RT stuff
[23:55] <knome> or something
[23:55] <mozmck> Well, I think it would take more time to get it all in ubuntu than use our own derivative.
[23:55] <knome> contacting them would probably be a good idea for that..
[23:55] <knome> mozmck, but potentially help more users, and save you from the maintaining burden, and you'd get the ubuntu community support too