| studio-user133 | thanks for this distribution | 06:40 |
|---|---|---|
| studio-user133 | but i think i need more powerfull pc 1100mb ddr p4 2,5ghz 64mb ati | 06:41 |
| erbur | what are you doing with your studio ? | 06:48 |
| Unit193 | Yes, yes you do. | 06:49 |
| lainaudio | hello, i need some help to finde the truth about flash player | 16:42 |
| lainaudio | my friend have mint and can use it | 16:42 |
| lainaudio | i already got apt flashplayer | 16:43 |
| Boscop | hi | 17:48 |
| holstein | o/ | 17:49 |
| Boscop | holstein: i put ubuntu studio on a bootable usb pen drive but my laptop can't boot it. it just shows a "_" on a black screen when booting from it, which then moves down a couple lines, then it falls back to booting from the default internal drive | 17:51 |
| Boscop | why is that? | 17:51 |
| holstein | Boscop: i can list why i think it might be, and you can run them down | 17:52 |
| Boscop | ok | 17:52 |
| holstein | first, dont assume that its an issue with ubuntustudio.. i *know* the 14.04 iso boots from usb like that, since, i have personally used it that way | 17:53 |
| holstein | you can take the stick to another machine to test.. you can test the md5 sum of the iso downloaded | 17:53 |
| holstein | !md5 | 17:53 |
| ubottu | To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows | 17:53 |
| holstein | you can run an integrity check on the stick https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/CDIntegrityCheck | 17:54 |
| Boscop | holstein: i downloaded the torrent so it checked it automatically | 17:54 |
| holstein | what i usually do is just take the stick to a machine that i *know* works, and boots USB sticks.. i format the stick, fresh, and use unetbootin ,since i know that works, and how it works | 17:54 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure, i understand, and you can go through these, and test as you please | 17:55 |
| Boscop | i used rufus | 17:55 |
| holstein | Boscop: that tests *only* the downloaded md5.. | 17:55 |
| holstein | the downloaded iso. not the stick, or your bios, or hardware.. etc.. | 17:55 |
| Boscop | holstein: how can i test it on the stick? | 17:55 |
| Boscop | if i doN't have ubuntu | 17:55 |
| Boscop | this menu doesn't appear | 17:56 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure, i get that, but, you cant assume that its an issue with the ubuntustudio iso, either | 17:57 |
| Boscop | holstein: so how can i test the stick if it doesn't boot? | 17:58 |
| Boscop | holstein: maybe it's the wrong iso? ubuntustudio-14.04.1-dvd-amd64.iso | 18:01 |
| Boscop | i don't have amd, but 64 bit | 18:01 |
| holstein | Boscop: how i test it is, i take the stick to a machine that i *know* boots usb sticks | 18:12 |
| holstein | from that test, i then can see the stick, either, boot on the hardware that i know supports usb boot, or it fails again, and i can work with the stick to make it work on the known good scenario | 18:13 |
| Boscop | holstein: i know this laptop boots usb sticks because i used this stick to isntall windows 8 | 18:13 |
| holstein | if i dont have that luxury, then, i start at the beginning, and test | 18:13 |
| Boscop | that's the only laptop i have | 18:13 |
| holstein | sure, i understand that | 18:13 |
| holstein | but, you want to check and see that the stick is good, and booting | 18:13 |
| holstein | Boscop: have you tried creating the stick with unetbootin? or another tool? | 18:13 |
| holstein | i would simply, format my stick, fresh, and remake it with a different tool.. | 18:14 |
| Boscop | holstein: ok, i'll try unetbootin, would you use 14.04.1 or 14.10? | 18:16 |
| holstein | Boscop: personally, i use the LTS, but, either | 18:16 |
| holstein | at this point, if i didnt want 14.04, would just get 15.04.. but, thats just me, and 15.04 is not supported or released yet | 18:16 |
| Boscop | but once the next LTS comes out, can't the system be updated to that? | 18:16 |
| holstein | Boscop: depends | 18:16 |
| Boscop | or can you only go from another LTS to a newer LTS? | 18:17 |
| holstein | Boscop: there are lots of reasons your hardware may not support the next LTS, and an upgrade may not be possible, recommended, or "easy" | 18:17 |
| holstein | Boscop: no | 18:17 |
| holstein | Boscop: you can do what you like | 18:17 |
| Boscop | so why not choose the newest? | 18:17 |
| holstein | Boscop: you can go 14.04 to 14.10.. but, personaly , i dont do that.. | 18:17 |
| holstein | i maintaing "good" backups, and fresh install | 18:17 |
| Boscop | no, it's a fresh install | 18:17 |
| Boscop | so why should i not use 14.10? | 18:17 |
| holstein | i have 2 partitions, i run LTS, on the other partition, i have the previous "known good" LTS | 18:18 |
| holstein | Boscop: i never said you shouldnt use 14.10 | 18:18 |
| Boscop | holstein: why fresh install instead of update? | 18:18 |
| holstein | waht im saying is, at this time, 15.04 is release in april. and 14.10 is EOL in july, so, if im personally choosing between 14.10 or 15.04, i would choose 15.04, even though its not released yet | 18:19 |
| holstein | but, that is a risk, and i understand and accept that risk, personally, and understand its not officially supported yet | 18:19 |
| Boscop | holstein: but it will continue to be updated until it's released, if i install it now? | 18:19 |
| holstein | Boscop: for me, an "upgrade" like that.. from say, 14.10 to 15.04.. i get no live environment testing.. so, i dont konw if my hardware supports 15.04 til i "hit the button" | 18:20 |
| holstein | then, when i hit the button, best case scenario, my machine sits there for about 6 hours, and downloads all it needs, and nothing breaks in the update | 18:20 |
| holstein | otherwise, i *already* have all my backups in place, and a fresh install takes me about 20 minutes | 18:20 |
| holstein | so, i personally, prefer to run the live iso for the next version, test my hardware with the new kernel and software, and install fresh. as i feel its safer, and takes less time.. safe/more predictable | 18:21 |
| holstein | Boscop: you *can* install 14.10 right now, and upgrade to 15.04 when released. you can do what you like | 18:21 |
| holstein | i prefer, and use the LTS's for audio production.. i want/need the stable/predictable environment over the newer package versions and features.. and i want to set the machine up once every 2 or so years, or less.. rather than every 6 months | 18:22 |
| Boscop | holstein: in the past i used ubuntu and always updated, it became slower and slower with every release. can this be prevented with fresh installs? | 18:22 |
| holstein | ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu | 18:23 |
| Boscop | yeah, i'm also mainly gonna use it for audio production and live perf and need low latency and stability | 18:23 |
| holstein | Boscop: it *will* updatel. there is no issue with the upgrades.. they work | 18:23 |
| holstein | they just work in a fashion that i prefer using fresh installs. i find it takes less time, and is "better" for me | 18:23 |
| Boscop | holstein: how do you organize your files so you can easily do fresh installs. separate home partition? | 18:23 |
| holstein | Boscop: manually | 18:24 |
| holstein | Boscop: seperate home is not a backup | 18:24 |
| holstein | *all* hard drives fail, so, i just plan for that, and im ready for anything | 18:24 |
| Boscop | holstein: will the ubuntu studio installer ask for drive encryption or separate home partition? | 18:25 |
| holstein | Boscop: i dont do encryption with audio procuction | 18:25 |
| holstein | the overhead is unwanted | 18:25 |
| holstein | otherwise, you can implent whatever you need, since its the same as ubuntu and xubuntu | 18:26 |
| holstein | you can use the mini iso to get a base install setup as you please, and add what you want | 18:26 |
| holstein | !mini | 18:26 |
| ubottu | The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want. The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD | 18:26 |
| holstein | or, you can install main ubuntu, and just add what you are wanting to using from ubuntustudio.. | 18:26 |
| Boscop | holstein: but i want the low latency kernel | 18:26 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure, its in the repos | 18:26 |
| holstein | Boscop: you can add that to *any* stock, official ubuntu flavor, such as main ubuntu | 18:27 |
| Boscop | how? | 18:27 |
| holstein | sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency | 18:27 |
| Boscop | that's it? | 18:27 |
| holstein | or, search the package manager of your choice, for lowlatency | 18:27 |
| holstein | or, synaptic.. | 18:27 |
| holstein | ect.. | 18:27 |
| holstein | however you install software | 18:27 |
| Boscop | i don't have to recompile the kernel? | 18:27 |
| holstein | Boscop: no | 18:27 |
| Boscop | ah | 18:27 |
| holstein | Boscop: ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu | 18:27 |
| holstein | Boscop: the flavors are bound to use stock packages from the repos.. *all* the software in ubuntustudio is in the main repos | 18:28 |
| holstein | that kernel, as well as *all* kernels all the flavors ship with, or have availabe, are available to *all* flavors | 18:28 |
| holstein | if you want something from kubuntu, you install it in lubuntu, for example.. you dont need to add a source. the sources are the official ubuntu sources. they are *all* ubuntu | 18:29 |
| Boscop | holstein: will the latency be as low as asio on windows? | 18:31 |
| holstein | Boscop: ? | 18:33 |
| holstein | Boscop: nothing about linux is preventing anyting related to your latency performing better.. or worse, for that matter | 18:33 |
| Boscop | holstein: audio latency. how low can it go? | 18:33 |
| holstein | the issue is, the variables | 18:33 |
| holstein | you have hardware that specifically promised you windows support | 18:33 |
| holstein | so, you cant expect "magic" from linux | 18:34 |
| holstein | also, do you really need low latency? | 18:34 |
| Boscop | holstein: yes | 18:34 |
| holstein | most folks just chase that word around, like a buzz word | 18:34 |
| holstein | there are only 2 cases in which you need it. and if you do, you do | 18:34 |
| Boscop | i need low latency for live improvisational audio performance | 18:34 |
| holstein | you need it for live effects processing, and for realtime instruments | 18:34 |
| Boscop | yes | 18:34 |
| holstein | depending, you may not need it for "live audio performances".. depends | 18:35 |
| Boscop | i also have several inputs that need to be processed in real-time | 18:35 |
| holstein | but, i dont need to get into that.. either you do, or you dont | 18:35 |
| holstein | and thats for you to decide | 18:35 |
| holstein | but, linux is not magic.. software wont make your hardware any "better" | 18:35 |
| Boscop | i have good hardware | 18:36 |
| holstein | what have i personally found? that i can get lower latency with some hardware, and not with other hardware | 18:36 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure.. you 'll note i *never* said anything about quality of hardware | 18:36 |
| holstein | Boscop: what im talking about is linux support | 18:36 |
| holstein | either is supports linux well, or not | 18:36 |
| holstein | you are free to try it live and see | 18:36 |
| Boscop | is there an ubuntu installer that installs a minimal system but the installer itself isn't minimal and allows drive encryption, separate home partition etc? | 18:36 |
| Boscop | only install what you need | 18:37 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure, i linked it.. and i'll link it again | 18:37 |
| holstein | !mini | 18:37 |
| ubottu | The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want. The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD | 18:37 |
| holstein | but, encryption will likely increase latency, or can | 18:37 |
| Boscop | the lubuntu minimal was very basic | 18:37 |
| holstein | you need to conider not using encryption, but, a stock, simple setup | 18:37 |
| Boscop | holstein: why? | 18:37 |
| holstein | Boscop: it has overhead.. | 18:38 |
| Boscop | it's all in ram | 18:38 |
| holstein | and, you dont need it | 18:38 |
| holstein | encryption doesnt faciliate what you are trying to do, and you dont need it | 18:38 |
| Boscop | i need it for other reasons | 18:38 |
| holstein | i would dual boot, if you *must* have encryption for some reason.. otherwise, it has factual overhead.. | 18:38 |
| Boscop | but once the drive is decrypted it shouldn't cause any overhead, right? | 18:39 |
| holstein | i would have the encryption on another install of linux and another stock parition for audio production | 18:39 |
| Boscop | because all the runtime data is in ram | 18:39 |
| holstein | Boscop: AFAIK< no | 18:39 |
| holstein | Boscop: thats why im saying that | 18:39 |
| holstein | Boscop: and thats what i have read, and always done, and experienced | 18:39 |
| holstein | Boscop: you can setup what you like, and are welcome to | 18:39 |
| Boscop | where does the overhead come from then? | 18:39 |
| holstein | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=disk+encryption | 18:40 |
| holstein | Boscop: im not an expert on disk encryption | 18:40 |
| holstein | Boscop: im just a guy with 1.2ms latency | 18:40 |
| Boscop | is there something like Latency Monitor where i can see how many msec all the drivers take at most to execute? | 18:41 |
| holstein | Boscop: if you want faster latency, do stock, without encryption.. and encrypt *another* install for your needs | 18:41 |
| Boscop | ok | 18:41 |
| holstein | Boscop: noo | 18:41 |
| holstein | Boscop: AFAIK, no.. but, anyone can make that tool.. like the manufacturer of your audio hardwqare | 18:41 |
| Boscop | so how will i know which drivers slow it down? | 18:41 |
| holstein | there are many benchmarking tools | 18:41 |
| holstein | Boscop: linux is modular | 18:41 |
| holstein | Boscop: it has the drivers it needs.. | 18:42 |
| Boscop | yes but wifi drivers might slow things down | 18:42 |
| holstein | what do i do? i physically remove hardware i dont need for the audio production environment | 18:42 |
| holstein | Boscop: do they? | 18:42 |
| holstein | Boscop: check and see.. i find that is not the case | 18:42 |
| Boscop | check how? | 18:42 |
| holstein | Boscop: i find that, encryption slowed me down and not wifi drivers | 18:42 |
| Boscop | how can i measure how long the drivers take? | 18:43 |
| holstein | Boscop: , but, you can ask in *any* general linux channel or forum | 18:43 |
| holstein | Boscop: this is specific to ubuntustudio.. not kernel module loading | 18:43 |
| holstein | Boscop: but, its not like windows.. where software and drivers and services cann "bog" the system down | 18:43 |
| holstein | its different than that | 18:43 |
| holstein | i suggest using the system, testing your latency, and address what you need, as needed | 18:43 |
| Boscop | so if i use the low latency kernel they won't interfere? | 18:43 |
| holstein | you can always simply disable the wifi chip in the bios, or turn it off | 18:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: im not able to promise you that, friend | 18:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: i can say, just turn the thing off, if you feel its interfering. by that physicaly first hand, acutal test, you'll see | 18:44 |
| holstein | !blacklist | 18:44 |
| ubottu | To blacklist a module, edit /etc/modprobe.d/my_blacklist.conf and add « blacklist <modulename> » to the end of that list - To explicitly load modules in a specific order, list them in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and type « sudo update-initramfs -u » | 18:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: you can blacklist the kernel module from the setup.. or disble the chip in the bios | 18:45 |
| holstein | Boscop: the linux kernel is different than windows | 18:45 |
| Boscop | ok | 18:45 |
| Boscop | i tried with minimalCD and unetbootin, same result | 18:45 |
| Boscop | it doesn't boot | 18:45 |
| holstein | what did work? | 18:46 |
| Boscop | only cursor blinking and then falls back to booting windows | 18:46 |
| holstein | just windows 8? | 18:46 |
| Boscop | holstein: installing windows worked | 18:46 |
| holstein | are you sure the hardwqare supports booting the stick you are making? and linux? | 18:46 |
| Boscop | yes | 18:46 |
| holstein | Boscop: how? | 18:46 |
| Boscop | i used the same stick | 18:46 |
| Boscop | and why wouldn't it support linux? | 18:46 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure, with the windows installer, though... thats not linux, or a test that provides data that the hardware supporst linux.. do you have data like that? | 18:47 |
| Boscop | i just bought the laptop | 18:47 |
| holstein | Boscop: ? | 18:47 |
| holstein | Boscop: becuase, its not promised to.. | 18:47 |
| holstein | Boscop: its a windows laptop.. it doenst say it supports linux.. if it did, it would and can | 18:47 |
| Boscop | it's i7-4720HQ | 18:47 |
| holstein | nothing about linux is preventing that.. but, there are things the hardware can have in place that can block linux, or it can just not supprot it | 18:47 |
| holstein | Boscop: sure.. and, did they say they support linux? | 18:48 |
| Boscop | no, but who says that? | 18:48 |
| holstein | Boscop: have you ever ran linux on it? has it booted linux live iso's? | 18:48 |
| Boscop | no | 18:48 |
| holstein | Boscop: ideally, the creator of the hardware would | 18:48 |
| Boscop | it came without OS | 18:48 |
| holstein | since, *all* of linux is open for them to support, if they choose.. but, they likely didnt promise you that | 18:48 |
| holstein | Boscop: all im saying is, if that machine *cant* ever boot linux.. nothing is broken.. they never promise you it would | 18:49 |
| Boscop | but how rare is that? | 18:49 |
| holstein | Boscop: ? | 18:49 |
| Boscop | is my hw too new? | 18:49 |
| holstein | the age is irrelevant | 18:49 |
| holstein | *anyone* can support linux.. anytime | 18:49 |
| holstein | its completely open | 18:49 |
| Boscop | i didn't know there was HW that didn't support linux | 18:49 |
| holstein | its common for hardware to not support linux | 18:49 |
| Boscop | :( | 18:50 |
| Boscop | so what should i do now? | 18:50 |
| holstein | Boscop: theres lots of hardware that doesnts support things | 18:50 |
| Boscop | how can i find out? | 18:50 |
| holstein | Boscop: try installing, for example, iOS on that ;) you'd quickly see that its not supporting iOS | 18:50 |
| holstein | Boscop: i find out *before* purchase.. or i buy with linux preloaded, and with a promise of linux support | 18:50 |
| Boscop | did they actively try to prevent linux from running on it? | 18:50 |
| holstein | but, you may just have to "Fiddle" withe the bios | 18:51 |
| holstein | Boscop: i dont know, friend.. i didnt make the hardware | 18:51 |
| Boscop | does it mean it won't even run in virtualbox? | 18:51 |
| holstein | Boscop: again, i dont know.. but, you dont do audio production virtualized | 18:51 |
| Boscop | i mean if the HW doesn't run linux, does it mean they did something to actively prevent that? | 18:51 |
| holstein | anyways, you dont know that this is the case.. | 18:51 |
| holstein | Boscop: i dont know. but, they are welcome to actively support linux.. many vendors do | 18:52 |
| Boscop | if the HW currently doesn'T support linux, can there still be a hack/workaround that makes linux run on it? like with the BIOS? | 18:52 |
| holstein | Boscop: think of it this way.. a team of experts were hired, and likely worked years to make sure windows shipped and ran flawlessly on that hardware.. not with linux.. when you want to run linux, or *any* thing they didt promise support for, you take that reponsibility on | 18:53 |
| holstein | Boscop: im *not* saying your hardware doesnt support linux.. im saying, thats a possible reason why you are having issues | 18:53 |
| holstein | Boscop: could be the bios is not allowing it.. could be safe boot.. or something the vendor did to lock it to windows | 18:53 |
| holstein | !uefi | 18:53 |
| ubottu | UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI | 18:53 |
| holstein | Boscop: the best "hack/workaround" would be, the vendor supports linux.. they are welcome to.. its all open | 18:54 |
| Boscop | it's a clevo laptop | 18:56 |
| holstein | sure | 18:57 |
| holstein | doenst matter.. *all* hardwarew vendors are free and welcome to support linux | 18:57 |
| holstein | nothing here is preventing that.. nothing with the linux kernel. all the source is open and freely available | 18:57 |
| Boscop | i know | 18:57 |
| holstein | if they didnt take advanatage of that, and promise you support, then, it may not work as well for you | 18:57 |
| fratto | Sorry, can I ask a ( maybe ) silly question? Did you fisrt tried to boot Ubuntu Studio or any other Ubuntu linux from a pendrive ? ( http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/ ) | 19:06 |
| holstein | yeah, i would try a few different stick making programs ^ | 19:07 |
| holstein | wont hurt | 19:07 |
| holstein | i would read around in my bios, and see if i have "safe boot" or uefi options i can disable | 19:08 |
| Boscop | holstein: UEFI boot is disabled (i didn't change it) | 19:38 |
| holstein | sure.. and again, that may or may not be the issue | 19:39 |
| Boscop | should i try with it enabled? | 19:39 |
| fratto | Boscop: See if this video tutorial can help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzUKCApxfRw | 19:39 |
| holstein | i just like to stick to the facts.. folks *do* boot that live iso.. i boot it. the 14.04 one has booted for me often.. from USB | 19:40 |
| holstein | Boscop: uefi is not something that facilitates the booting of USB sticks | 19:40 |
| holstein | Boscop: are you formatting the stick? | 19:40 |
| Boscop | i formatted it as fat32 before i used unetbootin | 19:41 |
| fratto | In the video, they boot fron a DVD to install linux in UEFI Mode... | 19:42 |
| Boscop | what's the advantage of turning on UEFI boot? | 19:43 |
| holstein | just that.. having uefi | 19:44 |
| Boscop | what for? | 19:44 |
| holstein | it wont faciliate booting linux or usb sticks | 19:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: for uefi | 19:44 |
| holstein | !uefi | 19:44 |
| ubottu | UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI | 19:44 |
| Boscop | will it influence how the os runs? | 19:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: it can | 19:44 |
| holstein | Boscop: it can make them *not* run.. or break things.. or faciliate the implementation of things.. | 19:44 |
| holstein | i would get *any* other PC.. nexts door.. at a friends house.. at the store.. and see that stick boot on it | 19:45 |
| holstein | then, you are not asking so many questions at once.. now, you dont have any known-good variables | 19:45 |
| holstein | they are *all* just variables.. the bios, the usb stick.. the iso.. you say, you dont want to check the md5 sums, since the torrent client "did it for you".. | 19:45 |
| holstein | could be any " link in the chain" | 19:46 |
| holstein | what i do is just keep moving, and keep trying things.. since, its new hardware to me, as i see it is to you, and i dont know what is what, and how it works | 19:46 |
| holstein | im recently got a "new" laptop from my sister, that have UEFI, and that was causing issues with my live usb stick booting.. but i was able to work around it, in a way that was acceptable | 19:47 |
| holstein | but, i was looking into this *before* purchasing it from her. since, i wanted to know that it supported linux before i ended up stuck with it, and a harder job than i want | 19:47 |
| holstein | its up to me to support linux on that hardware.. since dell didnt promise they would | 19:48 |
| holstein | could be, you are booting a GPT stick, and the bios, or linux doenst "like" that | 19:49 |
| holstein | could be its msdos, and it should be GPT.. or the iso is corrupt, or the stick is bad.. | 19:49 |
| holstein | or, it kernel panics before showing the grub screen.. or the GPU doesnt support linux | 19:50 |
| holstein | Boscop: good luck, and might i suggest, just stepping back to the main ubuntu iso, and #ubuntu since there will be more users there, and a larger user base | 19:55 |
| holstein | Boscop: you may acutally find someone running ubuntu on that hardware that way, that can help you | 19:55 |
| holstein | we dont do anything specific here with ubuntustudio that will break anything, once you sort out your hardware issue there, assuming its a hardware issue.. | 19:55 |
| holstein | i think going upstream to a larger community is the shortest path to you getting linux booting live on your hardware.. cheers! | 19:56 |
| Boscop | ok | 19:56 |
| Boscop | thanks a lot for all the help :) | 19:56 |
| Smeths | Hello | 20:46 |
| holstein | o/ | 20:50 |
| clara_ | hey | 20:57 |
| === Zachary_DuBois is now known as Tokyo | ||
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