[06:40] <studio-user133> thanks for this distribution
[06:41] <studio-user133> but i think i need more powerfull pc 1100mb ddr p4 2,5ghz 64mb ati
[06:48] <erbur> what are you doing with your studio ?
[06:49] <Unit193> Yes, yes you do.
[16:42] <lainaudio> hello, i need some help to finde the truth about flash player
[16:42] <lainaudio> my friend have mint and can use it
[16:43] <lainaudio> i already got apt flashplayer
[17:48] <Boscop> hi
[17:49] <holstein> o/
[17:51] <Boscop> holstein: i put ubuntu studio on a bootable usb pen drive but my laptop can't boot it. it just shows a "_" on a black screen when booting from it, which then moves down a couple lines, then it falls back to booting from the default internal drive
[17:51] <Boscop> why is that?
[17:52] <holstein> Boscop: i can list why i think it might be, and you can run them down
[17:52] <Boscop> ok
[17:53] <holstein> first, dont assume that its an issue with ubuntustudio.. i *know* the 14.04 iso boots from usb like that, since, i have personally used it that way
[17:53] <holstein> you can take the stick to another machine to test.. you can test the md5 sum of the iso downloaded
[17:53] <holstein> !md5
[17:54] <holstein> you can run an integrity check on the stick https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/CDIntegrityCheck
[17:54] <Boscop> holstein: i downloaded the torrent so it checked it automatically
[17:54] <holstein> what i usually do is just take the stick to a machine that i *know* works, and boots USB sticks.. i format the stick, fresh, and use unetbootin ,since i know that works, and how it works
[17:55] <holstein> Boscop: sure, i understand, and you can go through these, and test as you please
[17:55] <Boscop> i used rufus
[17:55] <holstein> Boscop: that tests *only* the downloaded md5..
[17:55] <holstein> the downloaded iso. not the stick, or your bios, or hardware.. etc..
[17:55] <Boscop> holstein: how can i test it on the stick?
[17:55] <Boscop> if i doN't have ubuntu
[17:56] <Boscop> this menu doesn't appear
[17:57] <holstein> Boscop: sure, i get that, but, you cant assume that its an issue with the ubuntustudio iso, either
[17:58] <Boscop> holstein: so how can i test the stick if it doesn't boot?
[18:01] <Boscop> holstein: maybe it's the wrong iso? ubuntustudio-14.04.1-dvd-amd64.iso
[18:01] <Boscop> i don't have amd, but 64 bit
[18:12] <holstein> Boscop: how i test it is, i take the stick to a machine that i *know* boots usb sticks
[18:13] <holstein> from that test, i then can see the stick, either, boot on the hardware that i know supports usb boot, or it fails again, and i can work with the stick to make it work on the known good scenario
[18:13] <Boscop> holstein: i know this laptop boots usb sticks because i used this stick to isntall windows 8
[18:13] <holstein> if i dont have that luxury, then, i start at the beginning, and test
[18:13] <Boscop> that's the only laptop i have
[18:13] <holstein> sure, i understand that
[18:13] <holstein> but, you want to check and see that the stick is good, and booting
[18:13] <holstein> Boscop: have you tried creating the stick with unetbootin? or another tool?
[18:14] <holstein> i would simply, format my stick, fresh, and remake it with a different tool..
[18:16] <Boscop> holstein: ok, i'll try unetbootin, would you use 14.04.1 or 14.10?
[18:16] <holstein> Boscop: personally, i use the LTS, but, either
[18:16] <holstein> at this point, if i didnt want 14.04,  would just get 15.04.. but, thats just me, and 15.04 is not supported or released yet
[18:16] <Boscop> but once the next LTS comes out, can't the system be updated to that?
[18:16] <holstein> Boscop: depends
[18:17] <Boscop> or can you only go from another LTS to a newer LTS?
[18:17] <holstein> Boscop: there are lots of reasons your hardware may not support the next LTS, and an upgrade may not be possible, recommended, or "easy"
[18:17] <holstein> Boscop: no
[18:17] <holstein> Boscop: you can do what you like
[18:17] <Boscop> so why not choose the newest?
[18:17] <holstein> Boscop: you can go 14.04 to 14.10.. but, personaly , i dont do that..
[18:17] <holstein> i maintaing "good" backups, and fresh install
[18:17] <Boscop> no, it's a fresh install
[18:17] <Boscop> so why should i not use 14.10?
[18:18] <holstein> i have 2 partitions, i run LTS, on the other partition, i have the previous "known good" LTS
[18:18] <holstein> Boscop: i never said you shouldnt use 14.10
[18:18] <Boscop> holstein: why fresh install instead of update?
[18:19] <holstein> waht im saying is, at this time, 15.04 is release in april. and 14.10 is EOL in july, so, if im personally choosing between 14.10 or 15.04, i would choose 15.04, even though its not released yet
[18:19] <holstein> but, that is a risk, and i understand and accept that risk, personally, and understand its not officially supported yet
[18:19] <Boscop> holstein: but it will continue to be updated until it's released, if i install it now?
[18:20] <holstein> Boscop: for me, an "upgrade" like that.. from say, 14.10 to 15.04.. i get no live environment testing.. so, i dont konw if my hardware supports 15.04 til i "hit the button"
[18:20] <holstein> then, when i hit the button, best case scenario, my machine sits there for about 6 hours, and downloads all it needs, and nothing breaks in the update
[18:20] <holstein> otherwise, i *already* have all my backups in place, and a fresh install takes me about 20 minutes
[18:21] <holstein> so, i personally, prefer to run the live iso for the next version, test my hardware with the new kernel and software, and install fresh. as i feel its safer, and takes less time.. safe/more predictable
[18:21] <holstein> Boscop: you *can* install 14.10 right now, and upgrade to 15.04 when released. you can do what you like
[18:22] <holstein> i prefer, and use the LTS's for audio production.. i want/need the stable/predictable environment over the newer package versions and features.. and i want to set the machine up once every 2 or so years, or less.. rather than every 6 months
[18:22] <Boscop> holstein: in the past i used ubuntu and always updated, it became slower and slower with every release. can this be prevented with fresh installs?
[18:23] <holstein> ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu
[18:23] <Boscop> yeah, i'm also mainly gonna use it for audio production and live perf and need low latency and stability
[18:23] <holstein> Boscop: it *will* updatel. there is no issue with the upgrades.. they work
[18:23] <holstein> they just work in a fashion that i prefer using fresh installs. i find it takes less time, and is "better" for me
[18:23] <Boscop> holstein: how do you organize your files so you can easily do fresh installs. separate home partition?
[18:24] <holstein> Boscop: manually
[18:24] <holstein> Boscop: seperate home is not a backup
[18:24] <holstein> *all* hard drives fail, so, i just plan for that, and im ready for anything
[18:25] <Boscop> holstein: will the ubuntu studio installer ask for drive encryption or separate home partition?
[18:25] <holstein> Boscop: i dont do encryption with audio procuction
[18:25] <holstein> the overhead is unwanted
[18:26] <holstein> otherwise, you can implent whatever you need, since its the same as ubuntu and xubuntu
[18:26] <holstein> you can use the mini iso to get a base install setup as you please, and add what you want
[18:26] <holstein> !mini
[18:26] <holstein> or, you can install main ubuntu, and just add what you are wanting to using from ubuntustudio..
[18:26] <Boscop> holstein: but i want the low latency kernel
[18:26] <holstein> Boscop: sure, its in the repos
[18:27] <holstein> Boscop: you can add that to *any* stock, official ubuntu flavor, such as main ubuntu
[18:27] <Boscop> how?
[18:27] <holstein> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency
[18:27] <Boscop> that's it?
[18:27] <holstein> or, search the package manager of your choice, for lowlatency
[18:27] <holstein> or, synaptic..
[18:27] <holstein> ect..
[18:27] <holstein> however you install software
[18:27] <Boscop> i don't have to recompile the kernel?
[18:27] <holstein> Boscop: no
[18:27] <Boscop> ah
[18:27] <holstein> Boscop: ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu
[18:28] <holstein> Boscop: the flavors are bound to use stock packages from the repos.. *all* the software in ubuntustudio is in the main repos
[18:28] <holstein> that kernel, as well as *all* kernels all the flavors ship with, or have availabe, are available to *all* flavors
[18:29] <holstein> if you want something from kubuntu, you install it in lubuntu, for example.. you dont need to add a source. the sources are the official ubuntu sources. they are *all* ubuntu
[18:31] <Boscop> holstein: will the latency be as low as asio on windows?
[18:33] <holstein> Boscop: ?
[18:33] <holstein> Boscop: nothing about linux is preventing anyting related to your latency performing better.. or worse, for that matter
[18:33] <Boscop> holstein: audio latency. how low can it go?
[18:33] <holstein> the issue is, the variables
[18:33] <holstein> you have hardware that specifically promised you windows support
[18:34] <holstein> so, you cant expect "magic" from linux
[18:34] <holstein> also, do you really need low latency?
[18:34] <Boscop> holstein: yes
[18:34] <holstein> most folks just chase that word around, like a buzz word
[18:34] <holstein> there are only 2 cases in which you need it. and if you do, you do
[18:34] <Boscop> i need low latency for live improvisational audio performance
[18:34] <holstein> you need it for live effects processing, and for realtime instruments
[18:34] <Boscop> yes
[18:35] <holstein> depending, you may not need it for "live audio performances".. depends
[18:35] <Boscop> i also have several inputs that need to be processed in real-time
[18:35] <holstein> but, i dont need to get into that.. either you do, or you dont
[18:35] <holstein> and thats for you to decide
[18:35] <holstein> but, linux is not magic.. software wont make your hardware any "better"
[18:36] <Boscop> i have good hardware
[18:36] <holstein> what have i personally found? that i can get lower latency with some hardware, and not with other hardware
[18:36] <holstein> Boscop: sure.. you 'll note i *never* said anything about quality of hardware
[18:36] <holstein> Boscop: what im talking about is linux support
[18:36] <holstein> either is supports linux well, or not
[18:36] <holstein> you are free to try it live and see
[18:36] <Boscop> is there an ubuntu installer that installs a minimal system but the installer itself isn't minimal and allows drive encryption, separate home partition etc?
[18:37] <Boscop> only install what you need
[18:37] <holstein> Boscop: sure, i linked it.. and i'll link it again
[18:37] <holstein> !mini
[18:37] <holstein> but, encryption will likely increase latency, or can
[18:37] <Boscop> the lubuntu minimal was very basic
[18:37] <holstein> you need to conider not using encryption, but, a stock, simple setup
[18:37] <Boscop> holstein: why?
[18:38] <holstein> Boscop: it has overhead..
[18:38] <Boscop> it's all in ram
[18:38] <holstein> and, you dont need it
[18:38] <holstein> encryption doesnt faciliate what you are trying to do, and you dont need it
[18:38] <Boscop> i need it for other reasons
[18:38] <holstein> i would dual boot, if you *must* have encryption for some reason.. otherwise, it has factual overhead..
[18:39] <Boscop> but once the drive is decrypted it shouldn't cause any overhead, right?
[18:39] <holstein> i would have the encryption on another install of linux and another stock parition for audio production
[18:39] <Boscop> because all the runtime data is in ram
[18:39] <holstein> Boscop: AFAIK< no
[18:39] <holstein> Boscop: thats why im saying that
[18:39] <holstein> Boscop: and thats what i have read, and always done, and experienced
[18:39] <holstein> Boscop: you can setup what you like, and are welcome to
[18:39] <Boscop> where does the overhead come from then?
[18:40] <holstein> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=disk+encryption
[18:40] <holstein> Boscop: im not an expert on disk encryption
[18:40] <holstein> Boscop: im just a guy with 1.2ms latency
[18:41] <Boscop> is there something like Latency Monitor where i can see how many msec all the drivers take at most to execute?
[18:41] <holstein> Boscop: if you want faster latency,  do stock, without encryption.. and encrypt *another* install for your needs
[18:41] <Boscop> ok
[18:41] <holstein> Boscop: noo
[18:41] <holstein> Boscop: AFAIK, no.. but, anyone can make that tool.. like the manufacturer of your audio hardwqare
[18:41] <Boscop> so how will i know which drivers slow it down?
[18:41] <holstein> there are many benchmarking tools
[18:41] <holstein> Boscop: linux is modular
[18:42] <holstein> Boscop: it has the drivers it needs..
[18:42] <Boscop> yes but wifi drivers might slow things down
[18:42] <holstein> what do i do? i physically remove hardware i dont need for the audio production environment
[18:42] <holstein> Boscop: do they?
[18:42] <holstein> Boscop: check and see.. i find that is not the case
[18:42] <Boscop> check how?
[18:42] <holstein> Boscop: i find that, encryption slowed me down and not wifi drivers
[18:43] <Boscop> how can i measure how long the drivers take?
[18:43] <holstein> Boscop: , but, you can ask in *any* general linux channel or forum
[18:43] <holstein> Boscop: this is specific to ubuntustudio.. not kernel module loading
[18:43] <holstein> Boscop: but, its not like windows.. where software and drivers and services cann "bog" the system down
[18:43] <holstein> its different than that
[18:43] <holstein> i suggest using the system, testing your latency, and address what you need, as needed
[18:43] <Boscop> so if i use the low latency kernel they won't interfere?
[18:44] <holstein> you can always simply disable the wifi chip in the bios, or turn it off
[18:44] <holstein> Boscop: im not able to promise you that, friend
[18:44] <holstein> Boscop: i can say, just turn the thing off, if you feel its interfering. by that physicaly first hand, acutal test, you'll see
[18:44] <holstein> !blacklist
[18:45] <holstein> Boscop: you can blacklist the kernel module from the setup.. or disble the chip in the bios
[18:45] <holstein> Boscop: the linux kernel is different than windows
[18:45] <Boscop> ok
[18:45] <Boscop> i tried with minimalCD and unetbootin, same result
[18:45] <Boscop> it doesn't boot
[18:46] <holstein> what did work?
[18:46] <Boscop> only cursor blinking and then falls back to booting windows
[18:46] <holstein> just windows 8?
[18:46] <Boscop> holstein: installing windows worked
[18:46] <holstein> are you sure the hardwqare supports booting the stick you are making? and linux?
[18:46] <Boscop> yes
[18:46] <holstein> Boscop: how?
[18:46] <Boscop> i used the same stick
[18:46] <Boscop> and why wouldn't it support linux?
[18:47] <holstein> Boscop: sure, with the windows installer, though... thats not linux, or a test that provides data that the hardware supporst linux.. do you have data like that?
[18:47] <Boscop> i just bought the laptop
[18:47] <holstein> Boscop: ?
[18:47] <holstein> Boscop: becuase, its not promised to..
[18:47] <holstein> Boscop: its a windows laptop.. it doenst say it supports linux.. if it did, it would and can
[18:47] <Boscop> it's  i7-4720HQ
[18:47] <holstein> nothing about linux is preventing that.. but, there are things the hardware can have in place that can block linux, or it can just not supprot it
[18:48] <holstein> Boscop: sure.. and, did they say they support linux?
[18:48] <Boscop> no, but who says that?
[18:48] <holstein> Boscop: have you ever ran linux on it? has it booted linux live iso's?
[18:48] <Boscop> no
[18:48] <holstein> Boscop: ideally, the creator of the hardware would
[18:48] <Boscop> it came without OS
[18:48] <holstein> since, *all* of linux is open for them to support, if they choose.. but, they likely didnt promise you that
[18:49] <holstein> Boscop: all im saying is, if that machine *cant* ever boot linux.. nothing is broken.. they never promise you it would
[18:49] <Boscop> but how rare is that?
[18:49] <holstein> Boscop: ?
[18:49] <Boscop> is my hw too new?
[18:49] <holstein> the age is irrelevant
[18:49] <holstein> *anyone* can support linux.. anytime
[18:49] <holstein> its completely open
[18:49] <Boscop> i didn't know there was HW that didn't support linux
[18:49] <holstein> its common for hardware to not support linux
[18:50] <Boscop> :(
[18:50] <Boscop> so what should i do now?
[18:50] <holstein> Boscop: theres lots of hardware that doesnts support things
[18:50] <Boscop> how can i find out?
[18:50] <holstein> Boscop: try installing, for example, iOS on that ;) you'd quickly see that its not supporting iOS
[18:50] <holstein> Boscop: i find out *before* purchase.. or i buy with linux preloaded, and with a promise of linux support
[18:50] <Boscop> did they actively try to prevent linux from running on it?
[18:51] <holstein> but, you may just have to "Fiddle" withe the bios
[18:51] <holstein> Boscop: i dont know, friend.. i didnt make the hardware
[18:51] <Boscop> does it mean it won't even run in virtualbox?
[18:51] <holstein> Boscop: again, i dont know.. but, you dont do audio production virtualized
[18:51] <Boscop> i mean if the HW doesn't run linux, does it mean they did something to actively prevent that?
[18:51] <holstein> anyways, you dont know that this is the case..
[18:52] <holstein> Boscop: i dont know. but, they are welcome to actively support linux.. many vendors do
[18:52] <Boscop> if the HW currently doesn'T support linux, can there still be a hack/workaround that makes linux run on it? like with the BIOS?
[18:53] <holstein> Boscop: think of it this way.. a team of experts were hired, and likely worked years to make sure windows shipped and ran flawlessly on that hardware.. not with linux.. when you want to run linux, or *any* thing they didt promise support for, you take that reponsibility on
[18:53] <holstein> Boscop: im *not* saying your hardware doesnt support linux.. im saying, thats a possible reason why you are having issues
[18:53] <holstein> Boscop: could be the bios is not allowing it.. could be safe boot.. or something the vendor did to lock it to windows
[18:53] <holstein> !uefi
[18:54] <holstein> Boscop: the best "hack/workaround" would be, the vendor supports linux.. they are welcome to.. its all open
[18:56] <Boscop> it's a clevo laptop
[18:57] <holstein> sure
[18:57] <holstein> doenst matter.. *all* hardwarew vendors are free and welcome to support linux
[18:57] <holstein> nothing here is preventing that.. nothing with the linux kernel. all the source is open and freely available
[18:57] <Boscop> i know
[18:57] <holstein> if they didnt take advanatage of that, and promise you support, then, it may not work as well for you
[19:06] <fratto> Sorry, can I ask a ( maybe ) silly question? Did you fisrt tried to boot Ubuntu Studio or any other Ubuntu linux from a pendrive ?   ( http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/ )
[19:07] <holstein> yeah, i would try a few different stick making programs ^
[19:07] <holstein> wont hurt
[19:08] <holstein> i would read around in my bios, and see if i have "safe boot" or uefi options i can disable
[19:38] <Boscop> holstein: UEFI boot is disabled (i didn't change it)
[19:39] <holstein> sure.. and again, that may or may not be the issue
[19:39] <Boscop> should i try with it enabled?
[19:39] <fratto> Boscop: See if this video tutorial can help:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzUKCApxfRw
[19:40] <holstein> i just like to stick to the facts.. folks *do* boot that live iso.. i boot it. the 14.04 one has booted for me often.. from USB
[19:40] <holstein> Boscop: uefi is not something that facilitates the booting of USB sticks
[19:40] <holstein> Boscop: are you formatting the stick?
[19:41] <Boscop> i formatted it as fat32 before i used unetbootin
[19:42] <fratto> In the video, they boot fron a DVD to install linux in UEFI Mode...
[19:43] <Boscop> what's the advantage of turning on UEFI boot?
[19:44] <holstein> just that.. having uefi
[19:44] <Boscop> what for?
[19:44] <holstein> it wont faciliate booting linux or usb sticks
[19:44] <holstein> Boscop: for uefi
[19:44] <holstein> !uefi
[19:44] <Boscop> will it influence how the os runs?
[19:44] <holstein> Boscop: it can
[19:44] <holstein> Boscop: it can make them *not* run.. or break things.. or faciliate the implementation of things..
[19:45] <holstein> i would get *any* other PC.. nexts door.. at a friends house.. at the store.. and see that stick boot on it
[19:45] <holstein> then, you are not asking so many questions at once.. now, you dont have any known-good variables
[19:45] <holstein> they are *all* just variables.. the bios, the usb stick.. the iso.. you say, you dont want to check the md5 sums, since the torrent client "did it for you"..
[19:46] <holstein> could be any " link in the chain"
[19:46] <holstein> what i do is just keep moving, and keep trying things.. since, its new hardware to me, as i see it is to you, and i dont know what is what, and how it works
[19:47] <holstein> im recently got a "new" laptop from my sister, that have UEFI, and that was causing issues with my live usb stick booting.. but i was able to work around it, in a way  that was acceptable
[19:47] <holstein> but, i was looking into this *before* purchasing it from her. since, i wanted to know that it supported linux before i ended up stuck with it, and a harder job than i want
[19:48] <holstein> its up to me to support linux on that hardware.. since dell didnt promise they would
[19:49] <holstein> could be, you are booting a GPT stick, and the bios, or linux doenst "like" that
[19:49] <holstein> could be its msdos, and it should be GPT.. or the iso is corrupt, or the stick is bad..
[19:50] <holstein> or, it kernel panics before showing the grub screen.. or the GPU doesnt support linux
[19:55] <holstein> Boscop: good luck, and might i suggest, just stepping back to the main ubuntu iso, and #ubuntu since there will be more users there, and a larger user base
[19:55] <holstein> Boscop: you may acutally find someone running ubuntu on that hardware that way, that can help you
[19:55] <holstein> we dont do anything specific here with ubuntustudio that will break anything, once you sort out your hardware issue there, assuming its a hardware issue..
[19:56] <holstein> i think going upstream to a larger community is the shortest path to you getting linux booting live on your hardware.. cheers!
[19:56] <Boscop> ok
[19:56] <Boscop> thanks a lot for all the help :)
[20:46] <Smeths> Hello
[20:50] <holstein> o/
[20:57] <clara_> hey