| bluesabre | knome: heyo | 00:51 |
|---|---|---|
| knome | wahh | 00:51 |
| knome | :) | 00:51 |
| knome | oh, haha | 00:51 |
| knome | wrong channel :) | 00:51 |
| bluesabre | ;) | 00:51 |
| bluesabre | but yeah, I think it will be the same as any SRU... we'll bring in releases that fix really prominent bugs | 00:52 |
| knome | yep | 00:52 |
| bluesabre | there we go | 00:56 |
| bluesabre | exactly 140 characters | 00:57 |
| bluesabre | "@Yanpask @Xubuntu As with any SRU, we will work to include releases that resolve high-impact bugs (http://bit.ly/1MPLF1t) affecting Trusty." | 00:57 |
| bluesabre | knome: sound good? | 00:57 |
| knome | wfm | 00:57 |
| * knome thinks the bluesabre twitter page is creepy with those grinning seans | 00:58 | |
| knome | retweeted | 00:58 |
| bluesabre | knome: indeed, not sure when I got a nice background pic there | 00:58 |
| bluesabre | but its a bit much | 00:58 |
| knome | yes, it's a bit much ;) | 00:59 |
| bluesabre | knome: mind if I chop up a xubuntu wallpaper for my bg? | 00:59 |
| knome | not at all | 00:59 |
| pleia2 | grinning seans <3 | 00:59 |
| Unit193 | Where is he grinning? | 01:00 |
| knome | Unit193, in his twitter page | 01:00 |
| knome | https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis | 01:00 |
| knome | well he removed the other pic too | 01:00 |
| knome | s/too/already/ | 01:00 |
| Unit193 | Ah, that's why. | 01:01 |
| knome | bluesabre, that orange is the best wallpaper cut i've ever seen | 01:01 |
| bluesabre | knome: it burns >.< | 01:01 |
| knome | bluesabre, did you have one of those good monitors? :P | 01:06 |
| bluesabre | there we go, thats an improvement | 01:08 |
| * bluesabre is not sure if the question has a good or bad connotation | 01:08 | |
| knome | bluesabre, well if you have a better monitor, i don't wonder why it hurts... :P | 01:09 |
| knome | that's a weird cut, but ok :D | 01:09 |
| knome | bluesabre, why didn't you snatch the one from the xubuntu page while you were at it? :P | 01:09 |
| knome | bluesabre, https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/430282295/1397646039/1500x500 | 01:10 |
| gmbs | Hi, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work. | 01:14 |
| knome | hey gmbs, thank *you* :) | 01:15 |
| gmbs | Sheesh, it's been over 20 years since I last spent any time on IRC. Looks like the net-splits don't go away, huh? | 01:18 |
| bluesabre | knome: was going for the artsy-fartsy, ended up with more fartsy | 01:18 |
| knome | bluesabre, hehe | 01:18 |
| knome | gmbs, yeah, it's a never-ending story... | 01:19 |
| knome | gmbs, btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :) | 01:21 |
| knome | oh, heh :) | 01:22 |
| knome | scared them away... | 01:22 |
| knome | gmbs, welcome back ;) | 01:22 |
| gmbs | NOW I remember IRC | 01:22 |
| knome | gmbs, if you didn't see this --> btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :) | 01:23 |
| gmbs | I need to go make dinner for the family. I'll be back later. | 01:23 |
| knome | bon appetit! | 01:24 |
| gmbs | <--- not another net-split | 01:24 |
| bluesabre | gmbs: they might have even gotten worse :) | 01:24 |
| knome | heh | 01:25 |
| === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 | ||
| cyphermox | Unit193: could I get you or bluesabre (or any other xubuntu dev really) to look into how we can properly start the xfce session in ubiquity-dm to fix the dialog positioning issues elfy pointed out today? | 01:53 |
| cyphermox | Unit193: I noticed you made some changes before in ubiquity, I tried to revert them in case and it didn't fix things, but when I completely disable xfwm4 (not starting it at all) then ubiquity starts in the center of the screen as it should | 01:54 |
| cyphermox | so I'm thinking it might be something that isn't quite right in what programs are started to bring up the xfce session, or the order in which they get started | 01:54 |
| Unit193 | cyphermox: Sure, though of course I'd volunteer bluesabre for you. | 02:09 |
| bluesabre | 20:48:31 bluesabre | brainvvash: registered now https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin | 02:39 |
| bluesabre | everybody have fun splitting? | 02:39 |
| brainvvash | thanks for creating the project site | 02:40 |
| bluesabre | I think I've linked everything appropriately | 02:40 |
| bluesabre | if gottcode shows up, let him know about it as well... I'll reassign admin of it to him if he wants it | 02:41 |
| brainvvash | it shows only the vivid series, is this expected? | 02:42 |
| brainvvash | https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/+packages | 02:42 |
| bluesabre | fixed | 02:43 |
| brainvvash | awesome | 02:44 |
| cyphermox | bluesabre: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53 | 02:47 |
| bluesabre | cyphermox: thanks, I'll take a look at that | 02:48 |
| cyphermox | thanks | 02:48 |
| cyphermox | I'm logging off for the night now, back in standard working hours for EST timezone | 02:49 |
| Unit193 | bluesabre: Why'd you do/need that? | 02:50 |
| bluesabre | Unit193: hm? | 02:50 |
| Unit193 | whisker on LP. | 02:51 |
| bluesabre | has the benefit of pointing people upstream, and being able to do daily builds and whatnot | 02:51 |
| bluesabre | and | 02:51 |
| bluesabre | brainvvash requested it, and it seemed sane enough | 02:51 |
| bluesabre | (and is one of the easiest things I can do on a Tuesday night) | 02:52 |
| brainvvash | it's useful, indeed | 02:52 |
| bluesabre | cyphermox: thanks, have a good night | 02:52 |
| Unit193 | Heh, well I'd take that over cleaning and caulking the bathroom, so want to trade? :P | 02:52 |
| bluesabre | noop | 02:53 |
| Unit193 | cyphermox: And EST FTW! | 02:53 |
| cyphermox | Unit193: yay | 02:53 |
| * bluesabre high fives Unit193 and cyphermox | 02:53 | |
| bluesabre | Unit193: re http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53 any ideas off the top of your head? | 03:04 |
| Unit193 | I punted to you. :P | 03:06 |
| Unit193 | All I hear is that I didn't break it. | 03:06 |
| bluesabre | :) | 03:06 |
| * bluesabre begins the download | 03:07 | |
| Unit193 | Ah, looks like 3.19 will land after beta freeze is up. | 03:16 |
| bluesabre | oh cool | 03:17 |
| Unit193 | bluesabre: Try an older xfwm, just for kicks, with ubiquity? | 03:21 |
| bluesabre | yeah, going to try that and a few other things | 03:22 |
| Unit193 | Not xfce 11059 or something I'd presume? | 03:26 |
| ubottu | xfce bug 11059 in General "[PATCH] Too much space reserved for panel when external VGA output unplugged" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11059 | 03:26 |
| gmbs | Hi again, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work | 03:38 |
| gmbs | If anyone has any questions about how and why I install Xubuntu for small business desktop use in Mexico, I am happy to answer. | 03:43 |
| elfy | bluesabre: perhaps we should have been happy with black background to the try/install :) | 07:13 |
| ochosi | hey everyone | 10:38 |
| slickymasterWork | hey ochosi | 10:38 |
| * ochosi is still on a train on his way home | 10:41 | |
| ochosi | knome: therefore ^ not sure i'll make it in time for the meeting | 10:41 |
| bluesabre | elfy: indeed :D | 11:18 |
| ochosi | hey bl | 11:23 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: ^ | 11:23 |
| ochosi | :) | 11:23 |
| ochosi | stupid mobile internet screws things up with being slow | 11:23 |
| ochosi | in case you're not going to make the meeting tonight, i wanted to discuss 4.12 for trusty with you | 11:23 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: hey | 11:24 |
| bluesabre | whats up? | 11:24 |
| ochosi | i guess the general question is whether we try a huge SRU or go for the PPA version | 11:24 |
| bluesabre | did you see my tweet? | 11:25 |
| ochosi | sorry, i was away since sunday | 11:25 |
| ochosi | so i've only seen very few updates lately | 11:25 |
| bluesabre | https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis/status/570387123024433152 | 11:25 |
| ochosi | did you do an @xubuntu tweet or are you on twitter too? | 11:25 |
| bluesabre | knome wanted my unofficial response as XTL | 11:26 |
| ochosi | k | 11:26 |
| bluesabre | and then retweeted as @xubuntu | 11:26 |
| bluesabre | but yeah, no need for a full SRU into trusty | 11:27 |
| ochosi | ok good | 11:27 |
| bluesabre | we update components that have major bugs, leave the others alone until major bugs might be found | 11:27 |
| ochosi | righty | 11:29 |
| bluesabre | oho, that was definitely a systemd boot message on the b1 iso | 11:29 |
| bluesabre | elfy: you around? | 11:30 |
| brainvvash | bluesabre, there are some panel wrapper crash reports | 11:30 |
| brainvvash | I told you about my systray crash, probably triggered by the task manager | 11:31 |
| brainvvash | not reproducible tough | 11:32 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: did i miss much else? | 11:34 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: elfy/cyphermox found an issue with the b1 iso (32bit only maybe?) where the/a window is drawn offscreen | 11:35 |
| bluesabre | or thats how I understand it | 11:35 |
| bluesabre | in ubiquity | 11:35 |
| ochosi | right | 11:35 |
| ochosi | that's not much fun | 11:36 |
| bluesabre | trying to reproduce now to see if I can find the cause | 11:36 |
| ochosi | i wonder how that could happen | 11:36 |
| ochosi | i thought ubiquity runs a couple of commands to ensure it's centered | 11:36 |
| bluesabre | wanted to test it last night, but the iso took forever to download | 11:36 |
| ochosi | i'll try to take a look on friday | 11:36 |
| bluesabre | b1 is thursday :P | 11:36 |
| ochosi | today i'm travelling and tomorrow i have a packed day | 11:36 |
| ochosi | yeah well, luckily it's only a beta ;) | 11:37 |
| bluesabre | heh | 11:37 |
| ochosi | i think with xfdesktop running you could try to open a terminal | 11:37 |
| bluesabre | oh | 11:37 |
| ochosi | in the ubiquity-dm session | 11:37 |
| bluesabre | another fun one | 11:37 |
| ochosi | so that could help with debugging | 11:37 |
| ochosi | that could also be a reason for this happening btgw | 11:38 |
| bluesabre | https://imgur.com/hxmrz2d | 11:38 |
| ochosi | because we didn't really resolve the black background issue, we "painted over it" | 11:38 |
| ochosi | wow, that looks super-shitty :) | 11:38 |
| bluesabre | no, its resolved... we paint the background black and then open xfdesktop, no different than the root pixmap and xfdesktop we do for a normal session | 11:39 |
| bluesabre | er, a tiny bit different | 11:39 |
| ochosi | i think thta's xfwm4 removing the window frame because it thinks the window is tiled | 11:39 |
| bluesabre | oh | 11:39 |
| bluesabre | (can we remove that please) | 11:39 |
| bluesabre | thats an annoying feature | 11:40 |
| bluesabre | or add a switch | 11:40 |
| ochosi | so that's clearly a bug | 11:40 |
| ochosi | in xfwm4 | 11:40 |
| brainvvash | bluesabre, a new window should not be tiled automatically, is that a regression? | 11:42 |
| bluesabre | I'd prefer that window frame never be removed, especially if tiled | 11:42 |
| ochosi | i think there is no such option yet | 11:43 |
| ochosi | afai've noticed this sort of bug already with other windows in the session too btw | 11:43 |
| bluesabre | afa indeed | 11:44 |
| ochosi | bleh, stupid slow internet laaag | 11:44 |
| bluesabre | honestly, probably not the best idea for all changes to land in xfce 2-3 weeks before release | 11:45 |
| bluesabre | 2-3 years of development stability, final burst of features | 11:45 |
| bluesabre | (and bugs) | 11:45 |
| slickymasterWork | dkessel, can you please check this string -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=einmal+in+2+Jahren | 12:08 |
| slickymasterWork | why aren't the <guilabel></guilabel> tags present in the translated string? | 12:08 |
| slickymasterWork | also I've just upload a de.po file to the branch with several corrections regarding translated Docbook tags | 12:09 |
| bluesabre | elfy, Unit193: it looks like the window is opening on the very right-most pixel | 12:10 |
| bluesabre | that also seems to be where xfwm thinks things should go | 12:11 |
| bluesabre | if you can open a terminal and drag it to the far left, it will tile itself back on that right-most pixel | 12:11 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: should be this commit in xfwm4 6f6604a338e24a1df45d0cb97c2c0ec5cd205b62 | 12:12 |
| ochosi | not sure about the "optional" part though | 12:12 |
| bluesabre | elfy, Unit193: it seems like a regression, installing xfwm4 from utopic makes new windows appear on the right display | 12:19 |
| bluesabre | though the bug seems to be linked to tiling... if I drag a window to the left corner, it tiles to the right pixel even in older releases | 12:20 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: is there a way to disable tiling? | 12:20 |
| ochosi | yup | 12:22 |
| ochosi | i | 12:22 |
| ochosi | 'm looking up the key for you, one sec | 12:23 |
| bluesabre | k, going to hop in the shower in the meantime, bbiab | 12:23 |
| ochosi | it's /xfwm4/general/tile_on_move | 12:24 |
| ochosi | maybe we can disable that for ubiquity | 12:24 |
| ochosi | or in general, if that's the only way | 12:26 |
| dkessel | slickymasterWork: oh right - i fixed the one with the missing <guilabel> tags | 12:32 |
| dkessel | slickymasterWork: anything else you noticed about the translation? | 12:32 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: thanks | 12:39 |
| bluesabre | elfy, Unit193: won't have a chance to test this morning, but if you get a chance, maybe try the following command in a terminal (ctrl-alt-t or right-click desktop to get a terminal) before the installer finishes | 12:40 |
| bluesabre | xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false | 12:40 |
| brainvvash | bluesabre, and this is a 32bit only issue? | 12:42 |
| bluesabre | brainvvash: not sure | 12:42 |
| brainvvash | sounds strange :) | 12:42 |
| bluesabre | the iso takes so long to download, only been able to test 32bit since I saw a mention of it | 12:42 |
| bluesabre | I'll test with a version of ubiquity from utopic later and other variations to figure out the exact issue | 12:43 |
| elfy | bluesabre: arch agnosti | 13:04 |
| elfy | that command returns nothing | 13:07 |
| elfy | but that's before the installer starts as it's invisble :) | 13:07 |
| bluesabre | yeah, the command returns nothing, just sets tiling off | 13:08 |
| bluesabre | gotta run, bbl | 13:08 |
| bluesabre | check the right-most pixel for a window border | 13:08 |
| bluesabre | things hide over there | 13:08 |
| elfy | alt+space+m moving them :) | 13:09 |
| elfy | yep - cya later | 13:09 |
| elfy | bluesabre: ok - made no difference - after install finishes the install complete notification was off screen somewhere - BUT - grabbing it and moving it onto desktop - it says install is completel | 13:21 |
| ochosi | ok, so we mostly have a window managing problem there | 13:25 |
| elfy | ochosi: seems so - other than it being a bit pants - I'm not completely panicking :) | 13:28 |
| elfy | I want to do some double checking that it all works from live session as expected - if that's the case then I'd +1 releasing with a Big Known Issue if you 2 wanted to | 13:29 |
| elfy | and assuming it's not fixed by tomorrow ofc | 13:30 |
| slickymasterWork | great dkessel, thanks for that | 14:06 |
| slickymasterWork | other than ^^, just a few occurrences of the closing tag </filename> being translated | 14:08 |
| slickymasterWork | and I already upload a de.po file correcting those | 14:10 |
| ochosi | elfy: yeah, i guess that'd be ok | 14:11 |
| ochosi | not sure we'll be able to figure things out until tomorrow | 14:17 |
| slickymasterWork | GridCube, can you please normalize the 'Settings Manager' entity in the Spanish translations of the -docs. So far there's translated entries as "Administrador de configuración", "Configuración" and "Settings Manager" | 15:00 |
| knome | and please use the name used in the menu | 15:02 |
| GridCube | in the menu if you hover it says "Toda la configuración" but the title of the Settings Manager just says "Configuración" | 15:06 |
| slickymasterWork | yet another entry GridCube, "configuración" (this one is the same as the previous, but the initial C is not capitalized) | 15:06 |
| knome | GridCube, use the one in the menu | 15:06 |
| GridCube | thats what whiskers say, in the xfce menu it says "Administrador de configuración" | 15:07 |
| GridCube | as whiskers is default i guess i should use "Toda la configuración" then? | 15:07 |
| knome | hmm | 15:07 |
| knome | what are the literal translations for those? | 15:08 |
| slickymasterWork | at least you should choose one and make it default through all the docs GridCube | 15:08 |
| knome | i actually believe the one from the regular menu is the one that comes from xfce | 15:09 |
| knome | the one in whisker is probably whisker-specific | 15:09 |
| slickymasterWork | I'm under the same impression knome | 15:09 |
| knome | i'd use the one from xfce | 15:09 |
| GridCube | "all settings" (toda la configuracion), "settings" (configuración), "settings manager" (administrador de configuración) | 15:09 |
| GridCube | knome: makes sense | 15:09 |
| knome | use the one that is the "real" translation for the original string (settings manager) | 15:10 |
| slickymasterWork | GridCube, if you're going to work on it right now please tell me, because I'm working on the es.po and I'll stop until you've finished | 15:10 |
| GridCube | so what it says in the xfce menu | 15:10 |
| GridCube | slickymasterWork: even if i make a change, the translation team might take days to aprove myc hanges | 15:11 |
| slickymasterWork | aren't you also reviewer GridCube? | 15:11 |
| GridCube | nope | 15:11 |
| GridCube | was never accepted | 15:11 |
| slickymasterWork | ok, I'll continue then, and upload all the corrections to malformed and translated tags | 15:12 |
| GridCube | ok, i'll make the suggestions then | 15:13 |
| slickymasterWork | great, thanks GridCube ;) | 15:13 |
| slickymasterWork | as you're on it GridCube, there's one other proposed entry for 'Settings Manager' -> "Gestor de de configuración" :P | 15:15 |
| GridCube | yes | 15:16 |
| knome | don't confuse this any more :P | 15:16 |
| GridCube | thats not good | 15:16 |
| * slickymasterWork thinks that this just shows the richness of the Latin idioms | 15:16 | |
| GridCube | i saw it | 15:16 |
| GridCube | ok, done | 15:24 |
| GridCube | all 26 instances where "settings manager" was now says "administración de configuración" as from the xfce menu lists | 15:25 |
| GridCube | notice again that this is different from whiskers and from what the window title says | 15:25 |
| knome | even the english dialog says just "Settings" | 15:27 |
| GridCube | ok :) | 15:27 |
| knome | i don't use whiskermenu though | 15:27 |
| knome | "All Settings" there | 15:27 |
| knome | so ti's in line with english | 15:27 |
| GridCube | i've sent a mail to the translations team leader asking for review | 15:27 |
| slickymasterWork | one other thing I noticed GridCube, is that most of the times « » are used in spite of " " and that breaks the code | 15:29 |
| slickymasterWork | I'm already fixing those ^^^ | 15:29 |
| GridCube | no idea how to get << >> | 15:29 |
| slickymasterWork | in Portuguese keyboards it's the key immediately to the left of the 'Backspace' key | 15:30 |
| GridCube | ¡¿~ | 15:31 |
| GridCube | thats what that key contains | 15:31 |
| knome | altgr+shift+8/9 | 15:31 |
| GridCube | i think that the idea is not to use them anyway | 15:32 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, you can use « and » if you want to use them... :P | 15:32 |
| knome | i'm sure it's some sort of convention | 15:32 |
| slickymasterWork | but the script is escaping the occurrences of " " -> \" blá blá \" | 15:34 |
| knome | eh | 15:40 |
| slickymasterWork | like this knome: "<xref linkend=\"software-repositories-restricted\"/> | 15:42 |
| slickymasterWork | you can't use <xref linkend=«software-repositories-restricted»/> | 15:42 |
| knome | oh right... | 15:43 |
| knome | that's clearly wrong that «» there | 15:43 |
| knome | would be nice to know again who is doing that | 15:44 |
| knome | because they aren't helping at all with that stuff we have to fix after they did it | 15:44 |
| * slickymasterWork is reviewing the file in poeditor | 15:45 | |
| slickymasterWork | GridCube, ping | 15:59 |
| GridCube | yes | 16:00 |
| slickymasterWork | can I ask you another favor? 'Network Manager' and 'Gestor de redes' | 16:01 |
| slickymasterWork | can you also normalize that? | 16:01 |
| GridCube | slickymasterWork: i cant find "network manager" | 16:06 |
| GridCube | oh, its networkmanager all thogheter | 16:06 |
| slickymasterWork | yes :) | 16:06 |
| GridCube | should it just stay "NetworkManager"? | 16:07 |
| GridCube | if you hover the applet it doesnt say anything, and the window from Edit says "Conexiones de red" | 16:08 |
| GridCube | but the app in alt-tab says "nm connection editor" | 16:09 |
| GridCube | i don't know what to do | 16:13 |
| slickymasterWork | I use Conexiones de red, GridCube | 16:13 |
| slickymasterWork | S/I use/I would use | 16:14 |
| GridCube | alright | 16:14 |
| GridCube | done | 16:24 |
| slickymasterWork | thanks GridCube | 16:26 |
| GridCube | de nada | 16:26 |
| slickymasterWork | ;) | 16:27 |
| knome | !team | meeting in 30min | 16:30 |
| ubottu | meeting in 30min: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 | 16:30 |
| slickymasterWork | desktop-guide-es.po reviewd for malformed and translated tags an uploaded to the branch | 16:45 |
| dkessel | i am also here to tune in to the meeting | 16:56 |
| knome | dkessel, oh but you're not allowed | 17:00 |
| dkessel | yeah, sure :p | 17:00 |
| knome | didn't you know that when the meeting is on wednesdays, people whose nick starts with d can't participate | 17:00 |
| knome | boo, you didn't take the bait :( | 17:00 |
| knome | of course you can participate... | 17:00 |
| dkessel | ;) | 17:00 |
| knome | #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting | 17:00 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Wed Feb 25 17:00:59 2015 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 17:00 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 17:00 |
| knome | who's here for the meeting? | 17:01 |
| * GridCube is here as a listener today | 17:01 | |
| elfy | be about make a cup of tea time - just got in | 17:02 |
| knome | GridCube, non-team members can talk just as well :P | 17:02 |
| GridCube | i know :P but i'll probably have nothing to say | 17:02 |
| GridCube | this is the first meeting i can join in years | 17:02 |
| knome | #topic Open action items | 17:02 |
| knome | Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs | 17:02 |
| knome | did that happen? | 17:02 |
| elfy | no | 17:03 |
| knome | #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs | 17:03 |
| meetingology | ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs | 17:03 |
| knome | rests seems done | 17:03 |
| knome | #topic Team updates | 17:03 |
| knome | #info The new website theme (with fixes) is live!!! | 17:03 |
| elfy | I have loads | 17:04 |
| knome | just pour them in :) | 17:04 |
| elfy | right - I'm here now | 17:05 |
| elfy | though loads is probably 3 or 4 :p | 17:05 |
| knome | haha | 17:06 |
| elfy | #info Trusty testing - once we had a testable image - went well - 94 reported results for that | 17:06 |
| knome | \o/ | 17:06 |
| PaulW2U | knome: Colour scheme of website is good but not sure about the shade of green | 17:07 |
| elfy | #info First count for QA incentive will be done by Sunday for ochosi to approve | 17:07 |
| knome | PaulW2U, we're in the middle of a meeting, can you give the feedback after this, thanks | 17:07 |
| elfy | #info vivid beta testing is not going too well with the known issue, release team need to make a decision | 17:07 |
| knome | elfy, can you summarize where it happens? | 17:08 |
| elfy | #action xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position | 17:08 |
| meetingology | ACTION: xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position | 17:08 |
| elfy | knome: yes - any of the install options appear to cause various issues | 17:08 |
| knome | ouch.. | 17:09 |
| knome | xubuntu-specific only or general? | 17:09 |
| elfy | I need to check the live session install options - they *appear* ok | 17:09 |
| elfy | xubuntu-specific it seems | 17:09 |
| knome | hmpf | 17:09 |
| knome | my opinion, not that i'm in the release team or the team lead, is that it would be important to get beta out for exploratory testing (people are interested in betas) | 17:10 |
| elfy | of course while that specific info is just one line - it's a big one :p | 17:10 |
| knome | if we can only make the system to install more or less cleanly.. | 17:10 |
| slickymasterWork | ftr, ^^^ that's bug 1425047 | 17:10 |
| ubottu | bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 | 17:10 |
| elfy | slickymasterWork: it's not just that I'm afraid :) | 17:11 |
| slickymasterWork | great, here I was thinking it was just sinply that :P | 17:11 |
| elfy | kvm - don't even see the screen to install from :) | 17:11 |
| knome | apparently there could be a trivial fix to that | 17:11 |
| knome | but not landing before the beta | 17:11 |
| knome | elfy, or did you test that already? | 17:12 |
| elfy | not seen anything about fix | 17:12 |
| elfy | test what? | 17:12 |
| knome | aha | 17:12 |
| knome | bluesabre sent you a line to turn off tiling | 17:12 |
| elfy | oh if you mean bluesabre's xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false | 17:12 |
| knome | he also said something about running with utopic ubiquity to debug it | 17:12 |
| knome | yes | 17:12 |
| knome | that | 17:12 |
| elfy | my result of that is [13:21] <elfy> bluesabre: ok - made no difference | 17:13 |
| knome | right :( | 17:13 |
| knome | well, let's hope we can fix it ASAP | 17:13 |
| knome | anything else for the team updates? | 17:13 |
| elfy | but all is not lost - it IS installable | 17:13 |
| knome | yep :) | 17:13 |
| elfy | just not from all options easily | 17:13 |
| knome | yeah.. | 17:14 |
| dkessel | maybe we should send a mail to the ML informing about known working installation options | 17:14 |
| elfy | hardware testing for all install options from livesession is not something that I can do | 17:14 |
| elfy | dkessel: they'd be on the release note | 17:14 |
| knome | elfy, what can't you? | 17:14 |
| elfy | all that I CAN do is manual | 17:15 |
| knome | oh ok | 17:15 |
| knome | well i don't think that makes much difference if the problems are related to window positioning though | 17:16 |
| knome | but what do i know... :) | 17:16 |
| elfy | basically all of the dialogues are off screen | 17:16 |
| knome | yep | 17:16 |
| knome | since it's likely that's an xfwm bug, it shouldn't stop one from installing | 17:16 |
| elfy | you can grab them - make sure has focus then alt+space+m then you can select move and grab it | 17:16 |
| knome | if you can get the windows to be visible, that is | 17:16 |
| knome | yep | 17:17 |
| elfy | yep - I just need time to work through all the options I can do - vm's and hardware | 17:17 |
| knome | let's follow up on this when bluesabre gets back :) | 17:17 |
| knome | any other team updates? | 17:17 |
| knome | slickymasterWork? | 17:17 |
| slickymasterWork | ups sorry | 17:18 |
| slickymasterWork | no closed from my side | 17:18 |
| slickymasterWork | s/no/nothing | 17:18 |
| knome | #done pleia2 published a "Xubuntu at..." blog post | 17:18 |
| knome | ok, moving on | 17:18 |
| slickymasterWork | working on a bunch of things, still | 17:18 |
| knome | #topic Announcements | 17:18 |
| knome | #info Xfce 4.12 is to be released next weekend | 17:18 |
| knome | #info Team has got an ACK for a FFe for 4.12 uploads, will be uploaded once everything has settled | 17:19 |
| knome | any other announcements? | 17:19 |
| knome | #info Next freezes: UIFreeze March 12, DocStringFreeze March 19 | 17:21 |
| elfy | not that I'm aware of | 17:21 |
| knome | #topic Discussion | 17:22 |
| knome | i believe the core upgrade issue should be solved now | 17:22 |
| knome | #subtopic ISO target size | 17:22 |
| knome | anybody have comments on this? | 17:22 |
| elfy | yes | 17:22 |
| knome | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010606.html | 17:22 |
| knome | go ahead :) | 17:23 |
| elfy | my position is (and isn't likely to change) that we shouldn't constrain ourselves by the 1Gb limit - however that doesn't equate to woohoo - we've got 2 Gb - fill that space up | 17:23 |
| knome | yep | 17:24 |
| elfy | we should bear in mind people that might have bandwidth issues | 17:24 |
| knome | this is what i thought when i wrote: | 17:24 |
| knome | My suggestion on the meeting was that if we go over 1GB, our new target | 17:24 |
| knome | should be "below or as close to 1GB as possible, but 2GB at maximum". | 17:24 |
| knome | i think we just need a team vote on this | 17:24 |
| elfy | yep | 17:24 |
| slickymasterWork | that's also my position, as I already said in the ML | 17:24 |
| knome | #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion | 17:25 |
| meetingology | ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion | 17:25 |
| GridCube | as i said in the ML i think we should not limit to a size, but neither go adding stuff for the sake of it, just try to remain the smaller posible without feeling constrained | 17:25 |
| elfy | GridCube: that I think is more or less what everyone is saying | 17:25 |
| GridCube | mmhm | 17:25 |
| knome | the technical limitation is "required" in order to the trackers to be able to notice when we've gone over a specified limit | 17:25 |
| knome | but yeah, i don't think 2GB is really a problem, even if we decided to go ahead with the office stack change | 17:26 |
| knome | Unit193's figures for that were like 1.1GB... | 17:26 |
| Akusari | hello, sorry for my delay :-/ | 17:26 |
| elfy | knome: yea | 17:26 |
| knome | #nick Unit193 | 17:26 |
| knome | (needed that for the action item) | 17:26 |
| elfy | and on THAT note we need to try tie those other discussion into agenda | 17:27 |
| knome | but then again 1.2GB target makes no sense, there is no 1.2GB hardware :D | 17:27 |
| elfy | you can action me to do both of those | 17:27 |
| knome | elfy, the other things that are already on the agenda? :D | 17:27 |
| knome | i think it's next to useless to try to discuss them today since we are few-numbered | 17:28 |
| elfy | knome: yea - so limit should be 2 - that doesn't mean that [team] is going to +1 filling it up | 17:28 |
| knome | yep | 17:28 |
| elfy | knome: there is also the game issue | 17:28 |
| knome | right | 17:28 |
| knome | #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda | 17:28 |
| meetingology | ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda | 17:28 |
| knome | happy? | 17:28 |
| knome | :) | 17:28 |
| elfy | I'd not say that :p | 17:28 |
| knome | #undo | 17:28 |
| meetingology | Removing item from minutes: ACTION | 17:29 |
| knome | #chair elfy | 17:29 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: elfy knome | 17:29 |
| elfy | LOL | 17:29 |
| elfy | ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda | 17:29 |
| elfy | I meant I'd not say I was happy :D | 17:29 |
| knome | :D | 17:29 |
| Akusari | lol | 17:29 |
| knome | #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda | 17:29 |
| meetingology | ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda | 17:29 |
| knome | #subtopic Any other discussion | 17:29 |
| elfy | oh silly me - forgot the # | 17:29 |
| knome | anything else? | 17:30 |
| knome | too bad PaulW2U got scared and left... | 17:30 |
| elfy | nothing from me | 17:30 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, want to bring up something? | 17:31 |
| slickymasterWork | nopes, nothing at the moment | 17:31 |
| knome | #topic Schedule next meeting | 17:31 |
| elfy | ochosi for that I think | 17:31 |
| knome | #info ochosi schedules the next meeting (XPL duty) | 17:31 |
| knome | yep | 17:32 |
| knome | #endmeeting | 17:32 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Wed Feb 25 17:32:04 2015 UTC. | 17:32 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-02-25-17.00.moin.txt | 17:32 |
| knome | thanks everybody | 17:32 |
| slickymasterWork | but we still have to find a common schedule to finish the installer slideshow, knome, elfy | 17:32 |
| knome | i'll set the minutes up in a minute | 17:32 |
| elfy | knome: thanks | 17:32 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, can do that now | 17:32 |
| slickymasterWork | yes | 17:32 |
| slickymasterWork | this weekend? | 17:32 |
| elfy | I'll send a mail to the list re hardware tests installing from livesession | 17:32 |
| knome | sunday is not working for me | 17:32 |
| knome | unless it's $late | 17:32 |
| Akusari | while you guys sitting down in a team meeeting, i was working on the installer # bug 1425047 :-P | 17:33 |
| ubottu | bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 | 17:33 |
| knome | well make that $very_late | 17:33 |
| slickymasterWork | late won't work for me, beacuse the little one | 17:33 |
| knome | mhm | 17:33 |
| knome | i can't promise anything for saturday either | 17:33 |
| slickymasterWork | saturday? | 17:33 |
| knome | no clear plans yet | 17:33 |
| elfy | Friday evening? | 17:33 |
| knome | wait | 17:33 |
| slickymasterWork | wfm | 17:33 |
| slickymasterWork | your evening means what time elfy? | 17:34 |
| slickymasterWork | after 21:: UTC? | 17:34 |
| slickymasterWork | * 21:00 | 17:34 |
| elfy | till midnightish UTC | 17:34 |
| slickymasterWork | wfm | 17:34 |
| Akusari | that's what i call late :-P | 17:34 |
| knome | considering we aren't on the move, works for me too, but not sure yet | 17:34 |
| knome | i would place my bets on monday | 17:34 |
| knome | even if that's not weekend.. | 17:35 |
| elfy | and after first food if I'm awake that late - cos I'd need second food too :p | 17:35 |
| slickymasterWork | monday is good for me also | 17:35 |
| elfy | mmm - mon-wed night I can be about - just not so late | 17:35 |
| slickymasterWork | lol, we'll bring extra food elfy | 17:35 |
| knome | elfy, pick a time | 17:35 |
| elfy | knome: monday? | 17:36 |
| knome | elfy, yep | 17:36 |
| elfy | 1900 or 2000 | 17:36 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, which one works for you? | 17:36 |
| elfy | depends how long we think it's going to go on | 17:36 |
| knome | i'd hope ~30-45mins | 17:36 |
| slickymasterWork | both, I'll postponed diner | 17:36 |
| elfy | also knome and I can start looking at poll first I guess | 17:37 |
| knome | 19utc then? | 17:37 |
| knome | i mean, | 17:37 |
| slickymasterWork | you got yourselves a date then gentlemen | 17:37 |
| knome | let's go through things that we need to work on together | 17:37 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, a 2-way? | 17:37 |
| knome | we can action the actual content writing for later/we can do that alone | 17:37 |
| slickymasterWork | not with you... you demon | 17:37 |
| knome | :P | 17:38 |
| Akusari | and next time i'll ask you boys where i can do more help and support (expect iso-testing) :-) Probably you have some ideas for me :-) | 17:39 |
| knome | Akusari, next what time? | 17:39 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, elfy: so 19UTC monday? | 17:40 |
| slickymasterWork | there were already some work items attributed | 17:40 |
| slickymasterWork | wfm | 17:40 |
| Akusari | after next meeting i thought | 17:40 |
| Akusari | i'd like to have some tasks :-) | 17:41 |
| Akusari | but i'm not sure what i can do | 17:41 |
| Akusari | i'll continue iso-testing anyway (for sure) | 17:42 |
| slickymasterWork | Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english? | 17:42 |
| slickymasterWork | Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english? | 17:43 |
| Akusari | german | 17:43 |
| slickymasterWork | here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html | 17:43 |
| Akusari | why do you ask ? | 17:44 |
| elfy | knome: ack | 17:44 |
| slickymasterWork | see my previous post Akusari | 17:44 |
| slickymasterWork | here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html | 17:44 |
| Akusari | sounds not bad | 17:44 |
| Akusari | i can do a german translation of course | 17:44 |
| slickymasterWork | if you feel you need any help with anything, please fell free to ping me | 17:45 |
| knome | addaed our sprint to the calendar | 17:45 |
| knome | and minutes are up | 17:45 |
| Akusari | ok :-) | 17:45 |
| slickymasterWork | lol knome, you're spamming my phone :P | 17:45 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, i'm wondering whether we should also set up translation guidelines | 17:45 |
| elfy | ok - mail to list re beta hardware from live session gone | 17:45 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, eg. don't translate tags, always use the UI transation name for application names (re: todays discussion) | 17:46 |
| slickymasterWork | translations wise | 17:46 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, that might save us a lot of this work you've done today.. | 17:46 |
| slickymasterWork | agree knome, noe that it finally feels that some of the initial inertia has gone | 17:46 |
| slickymasterWork | and been doing for the last five days | 17:46 |
| knome | i mean that was always obvious to me, but people who are new to translations, maybe not | 17:47 |
| slickymasterWork | the desktop-guide-fi.po was an absolute mess | 17:47 |
| Akusari | wow | 17:47 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, ;) | 17:47 |
| knome | and i'm sure there are guides for this, but they are very long and hard to read | 17:47 |
| Akusari | ok, i need to go....cu later or tomorrow :-) | 17:47 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation | 17:48 |
| slickymasterWork | no, something practical, based on what we've being catching as the major errors being sone | 17:48 |
| knome | maybe we could also just try to improve that page... | 17:48 |
| knome | or use that as a base at least | 17:48 |
| slickymasterWork | I thought you were referring to something that would be added to our Process page knome | 17:48 |
| knome | there seems to be a lot of unnecessary stuff | 17:49 |
| * knome shrugs | 17:49 | |
| knome | the processes page starts to expand quickly :P | 17:49 |
| knome | but maybe it can go there as well | 17:49 |
| slickymasterWork | I was think of juast a small section about it | 17:49 |
| knome | but if there's an existing page somebody else maintains... | 17:49 |
| knome | In Ubuntu 11.04, the principal Ubuntu help documentation is found in the gnome-user-docs package. | 17:49 |
| knome | seems like not maintained lately .P | 17:50 |
| slickymasterWork | yeah, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation is a bit a wall of text | 17:50 |
| knome | yes | 17:50 |
| knome | there's a lot of ubuntu-specific stuff | 17:50 |
| slickymasterWork | the way I see it is like this: | 17:50 |
| knome | and i'm sure, obsolete stuff too | 17:50 |
| slickymasterWork | we have a notion of what are the major errors people are making | 17:50 |
| slickymasterWork | in fact they're just three-four types | 17:51 |
| knome | they are the items 1-3 in the first list | 17:51 |
| slickymasterWork | so there's a error pattern | 17:51 |
| knome | plus i'd add that it's important to translate application names literally as they appear in the UI | 17:51 |
| slickymasterWork | exactly | 17:52 |
| knome | because when we tell somebody to follow a path, they shouldn't need to do guesswork while following | 17:52 |
| knome | do you have 10 minutes now? | 17:52 |
| slickymasterWork | if the phone doesn't ring | 17:53 |
| slickymasterWork | yes | 17:53 |
| knome | haha | 17:53 |
| slickymasterWork | we can do it now | 17:53 |
| knome | http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-translation-guidelines | 17:53 |
| slickymasterWork | knome: did you saw my question? | 18:03 |
| knome | yes, see the chat | 18:03 |
| slickymasterWork | lol, forgot the pad chat | 18:03 |
| ochosi | hey dolks | 18:04 |
| ochosi | erm, folks too | 18:05 |
| ochosi | sorry i didn't make it for the meeting | 18:05 |
| ochosi | i'll quickly read the backlog and all | 18:05 |
| ochosi | unfortunately i still have some other work to finish tonight :/ | 18:07 |
| elfy | ochosi: such is life :) | 18:10 |
| elfy | most important thing as far as I'm concerned is read my mail to dev list and do something if you can :) | 18:10 |
| elfy | if you can't you can't :) | 18:10 |
| ochosi | elfy: yeah, i guess we have to try and get that issue fixed.. | 18:13 |
| ochosi | could you quickly describe it to me so i know how/where to look? | 18:13 |
| ochosi | or is it so obvious that i can't miss it? | 18:13 |
| elfy | ochosi: boot image - once at the try/install dialogue - choose install (that's what the tests all call for) then you should either get blank desktop | 18:14 |
| elfy | or you can install, then it goes blank apparently having died | 18:14 |
| elfy | what is happening is that the dialogues are 'offscreen' so you can focus and drag them so you can seem them | 18:15 |
| elfy | what I am trying to test as completely as possible is that everything works from livesession install icon | 18:15 |
| elfy | if so - I'd ack release tomorrow - but we need to make the issue as plain as day on r'notes | 18:15 |
| elfy | I'll try and get a summary onto a pad tonight | 18:17 |
| ochosi | indeed | 18:18 |
| ochosi | i wonder whether the screen size is miscalculated somehow | 18:19 |
| elfy | basically atm all we need is some people to hardware test as many options as possible | 18:19 |
| ochosi | i guess the problem you mention happens both with vm and hardware? | 18:19 |
| elfy | ochosi: no idea I'm afraid - I did try bluesabre thing - no go | 18:19 |
| elfy | yep - had the same on hardware here | 18:19 |
| ochosi | k | 18:20 |
| elfy | if it WAS just vm's - I would *shrug* | 18:20 |
| ochosi | i'll do a quick vm trial in a bit then | 18:20 |
| elfy | ochosi: okey doke | 18:20 |
| ochosi | any preference whether i do that in 32 or 64bit? | 18:20 |
| ochosi | or is it all the same atm | 18:21 |
| elfy | please make sure if you report that you do comment as I asked in the mail | 18:21 |
| elfy | it makes no difference | 18:21 |
| ochosi | k | 18:21 |
| ochosi | just started the zsync | 18:21 |
| elfy | thanks ochosi :) | 18:22 |
| slickymasterWork | knome, I assume you're already adding the pad content to the Processes page, right? | 18:24 |
| slickymasterWork | or do you want me to do it? | 18:24 |
| knome | not yet adding | 18:24 |
| knome | i'm wondering whether we should drop it there, or do something else | 18:24 |
| knome | we've discussed about the contributor documentation for a while.. | 18:25 |
| slickymasterWork | there, where? In the Pad? | 18:25 |
| knome | this would be the first item that clearly would be suitable for that | 18:25 |
| slickymasterWork | now you lost me knome | 18:25 |
| slickymasterWork | og, for membership, you meean? | 18:26 |
| slickymasterWork | - e | 18:26 |
| knome | you remember the discussions about potentially writing some documentation for new contributors? | 18:26 |
| slickymasterWork | yes | 18:26 |
| knome | well this is it as much as anything is | 18:26 |
| knome | so maybe we shouldn't bury this under the processes stuff | 18:26 |
| slickymasterWork | well it's a side of it, anyway | 18:26 |
| knome | the package translations is something else that could go there | 18:27 |
| slickymasterWork | because if I remember it correctly, we also talked about writiing something on how to write documentation | 18:27 |
| knome | i think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance is the poster child of non-new-contributor stuff | 18:28 |
| knome | this is clearly something that is targeted to people who know $things already | 18:28 |
| knome | but.. i guess the line is thing | 18:28 |
| knome | *thin | 18:28 |
| knome | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development this is the page i think this should go to | 18:29 |
| slickymasterWork | hmmm, that page is to buried it further than the Process one | 18:29 |
| knome | but then again i'm not sure if it's a good fit there currently | 18:29 |
| slickymasterWork | I was talking about the Maintenance one | 18:29 |
| knome | well anything under processes is more or less buried now | 18:30 |
| knome | since i cleaned the starting page | 18:30 |
| knome | which had became a wall of text | 18:30 |
| knome | now it isn't and the stuff is organized by the target people | 18:30 |
| knome | and/or usage needs | 18:30 |
| knome | i would consider the current processes page more of a cheatsheet | 18:31 |
| knome | the new guidelines we wrote are much more of a documentation type thing | 18:31 |
| slickymasterWork | as we stand now, the only logical candidate I see is indeed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development | 18:31 |
| knome | some of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/ReleaseCycle is that too, but that's because it used to be in the strategy document | 18:32 |
| knome | yes, but don't you agree that it's not really a good fit there? | 18:32 |
| slickymasterWork | so, it's either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development or create a new one just focused in Documentation | 18:32 |
| knome | i guess the difference i'm trying to communicate is: | 18:32 |
| slickymasterWork | yes, I agree | 18:33 |
| knome | the current stuff under development is specific by the xubuntu team | 18:33 |
| knome | *specifiED | 18:33 |
| slickymasterWork | right | 18:33 |
| knome | the new guidelines are specified by XML, eg. we *must* do this | 18:33 |
| knome | there's no way we can control how xml tags are interpreted | 18:33 |
| knome | the conventions... well, those are more xubuntu-specific, but then again they are very closely tied with the validity requirements in a social level | 18:34 |
| slickymasterWork | hmmm... aren't you starting to overthinking it knome? | 18:35 |
| knome | no, i'm just making sure that future things we do have a clear place to go to | 18:35 |
| knome | eg. if we want it all to be buried in a wiki that will eventually become a monster to maintain | 18:35 |
| knome | or do something else | 18:35 |
| knome | well think about this: | 18:36 |
| knome | what if we write a section about writing and working with the documentation itself? | 18:36 |
| knome | that surely isn't a process description as is | 18:36 |
| knome | we haven't specified that it needs to be like this, the technical side requires it to be like it | 18:37 |
| knome | another analogy: | 18:37 |
| knome | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance currently describes the maintaining tasks we need to take for website and more | 18:38 |
| slickymasterWork | yeah, but we can incorporate that in a "How to potentially gain membership through -docs" and thus linked for example from the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument | 18:38 |
| knome | the new guide we are writing is as if we wrote instructions on how to use wordpress to actually do that maintaining | 18:38 |
| slickymasterWork | but our intention is not that | 18:38 |
| knome | no, we definitely don't want to to do that for the website stuff | 18:39 |
| knome | but for the documentation stuff it might be required since people would otherwise need to do a lot of research | 18:39 |
| slickymasterWork | we could use your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself and fit it in the present scope of the team wiki | 18:39 |
| slickymasterWork | killing two rabbits | 18:40 |
| knome | i know this is going overboard, but i really have to point this out too | 18:40 |
| knome | http://xubuntu.org/contribute/translating/ | 18:40 |
| knome | what's the point of this page | 18:40 |
| knome | and the other similar pages, where do we draw the line | 18:41 |
| slickymasterWork | I see it as a complement | 18:41 |
| knome | i think the website is nice and concise atm | 18:41 |
| slickymasterWork | the website is the first entrance for most users | 18:42 |
| knome | it also describes the processes page function well: | 18:42 |
| slickymasterWork | contributing wise | 18:42 |
| knome | For the full list of translations that are important to Xubuntu, please refer to the Processes page on the Ubuntu wiki. | 18:42 |
| knome | and tbh, "Processes" is a bad name | 18:42 |
| slickymasterWork | that's nor present there | 18:42 |
| slickymasterWork | workflow? | 18:43 |
| knome | yeah, something like that | 18:43 |
| slickymasterWork | I like it better | 18:43 |
| ochosi | elfy: so at least xrandr is reporting the screen size correctly... | 18:43 |
| knome | tell pleia2 you're going to rename pages and she'll murmur at you | 18:43 |
| slickymasterWork | it's more explanatory | 18:43 |
| slickymasterWork | that's your job :P | 18:43 |
| knome | haha | 18:44 |
| slickymasterWork | tell pleia2 those nasty things | 18:44 |
| ochosi | elfy: and yeah, *all* new windows are created offscreen | 18:44 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, nooo, but she'll make me do redirects :( | 18:44 |
| slickymasterWork | lol | 18:44 |
| slickymasterWork | but seriously, I like your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself | 18:45 |
| knome | but that's another discussion :D | 18:45 |
| knome | and there are a lot more things we could document that would make new contributors more ease with the tools... | 18:45 |
| slickymasterWork | we just would have to figure/decide how/where to incorporate it in the present layout of the wiki | 18:45 |
| knome | ...or does it have to be in the wiki? | 18:46 |
| slickymasterWork | I think it would have to | 18:46 |
| knome | my wacky idea was to duplicate the base of the xubuntu documentation and make it a docbook thing. | 18:46 |
| knome | and put it under docs.xubuntu.org/developers for example | 18:46 |
| slickymasterWork | and that's your fault, you always stressed the paperwork aspect of it | 18:46 |
| knome | but of course, that's a different thing to maintain than the wiki | 18:47 |
| knome | but it would allow us to present it in a better-looking format | 18:47 |
| slickymasterWork | are we the ones who maintain docs.xubuntu.org/? | 18:47 |
| knome | yes | 18:47 |
| knome | or, pleia2 does | 18:47 |
| knome | (lots of pings for her today) | 18:47 |
| * slickymasterWork hides from pleia2 sight | 18:48 | |
| knome | so we could update it whenever we wrote new chapters to it | 18:48 |
| slickymasterWork | agree | 18:48 |
| knome | but i'm sure there are people who are against putting it to docbook | 18:48 |
| slickymasterWork | that just might turn out to be the sanest solution | 18:48 |
| knome | because the wiki is more easily editable by everyone and blah blah ;) | 18:48 |
| knome | the other option is to create another subsection for the wiki | 18:49 |
| knome | Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation | 18:49 |
| ochosi | ali1234: actually it's a xubuntu issue, it's sorta release critical for b1, so if you have any idea how to find out why any new window is created offscreen in ubiquity-dm (only with xfwm4)... | 18:49 |
| knome | and start gathering that kind of stuff there | 18:49 |
| slickymasterWork | yeah, but anyway there's only a bunch of us who deal with docbook markup so they'll going to say that it's our job | 18:49 |
| ochosi | ali1234: and i presume that it's a recent regression with 4.11.3 as we haven't seen this before and i don't think ubiquity's window placement code has changed at all | 18:50 |
| knome | writing developer documentation is something you can't do anyway if you're a newbie, so in that way being in docbook doesn't make it much more exclusive | 18:50 |
| slickymasterWork | the Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation idea was already thrown, but I was under the impression that it would serve another propose | 18:50 |
| knome | it would be the same, just in the wiki | 18:50 |
| slickymasterWork | exactly what I was thinking ^^ | 18:50 |
| knome | i'll have to think about it | 18:51 |
| knome | tbh, i'd probably go for the wiki for starters | 18:51 |
| knome | and i'd probably also move the important packages there too | 18:51 |
| knome | because it's not specifically a workflow/process thing either | 18:51 |
| slickymasterWork | well, it isn't, but it also is at the same time | 18:52 |
| knome | i've also long thought that the web presence page is in the wrong place | 18:52 |
| knome | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/WebPresence | 18:52 |
| knome | this | 18:52 |
| knome | it should be under "Contact" | 18:52 |
| slickymasterWork | lol, was going to pop the question | 18:52 |
| knome | which is currently a redirect to "Leaders" | 18:52 |
| knome | but we should rename that to Contact | 18:52 |
| knome | and fix that stuff | 18:52 |
| knome | but meeeeh | 18:52 |
| slickymasterWork | that's a all different issue | 18:53 |
| knome | reorganizing the wiki makes me cry | 18:53 |
| slickymasterWork | poor knome | 18:53 |
| knome | it's so slow | 18:53 |
| ochosi | elfy: btw, i have one fairly simple workaround for the window being offscreen: hit alt+f7 (shortcut for window-moving) and use the left-arrow button on your keyboard to move the window back onscreen | 18:53 |
| knome | compared to for example reorganizing docbook... | 18:53 |
| ochosi | elfy: i know it's not pretty though | 18:53 |
| knome | ochosi, think he knows about that already, alt+space+m he told | 18:54 |
| ochosi | ah ok | 18:54 |
| knome | which is probably the same, or sameish | 18:54 |
| knome | oh, that's the context menu | 18:54 |
| knome | but yeah, pretty much the same process | 18:54 |
| ochosi | yup | 18:55 |
| knome | slickymasterWork, anything else on the pad? | 18:55 |
| knome | i got to go AFK soon | 18:56 |
| knome | but i'll be back relatively soon, like 1h max | 18:56 |
| knome | actually, now | 18:56 |
| slickymasterWork | just added a small correction | 18:56 |
| knome | bbiab | 18:56 |
| knome | hope you're still around when i'm back :) | 18:56 |
| slickymasterWork | but I'm done with it now | 18:56 |
| knome | i'll fix the wiki then... | 18:56 |
| slickymasterWork | I'll be home and around | 18:56 |
| knome | great | 18:56 |
| slickymasterWork | after diner | 18:56 |
| knome | see you then | 18:56 |
| knome | :) | 18:57 |
| slickymasterWork | oki doke | 18:57 |
| knome | --> | 18:57 |
| slickymasterWork | bbl -> | 19:02 |
| elfy | ochosi: that's in hardware yes? | 19:23 |
| ochosi | no, in a vbox i just created | 19:23 |
| elfy | mmm not working here | 19:24 |
| ochosi | crap | 19:26 |
| ochosi | we don't set a shortcut for that by default | 19:26 |
| ochosi | not sure why tbh+ | 19:26 |
| elfy | ok | 19:27 |
| ochosi | it's weird anyway, the ubiquity standalone session is a bit useless | 19:27 |
| ochosi | i mean basically you can start *everything* within that session | 19:28 |
| ochosi | just right-click the desktop and it's all there... | 19:28 |
| elfy | yea | 19:28 |
| elfy | really - the bare minimum I guess | 19:29 |
| ochosi | also, again uneven circles :/ | 19:32 |
| ochosi | ugly progress-dots... http://i.imgur.com/eXCgpZa.png | 19:32 |
| knome | ochosi, that's the smallest of the problems :P | 19:33 |
| knome | ochosi, i mean even the shot you pasted looks okay | 19:33 |
| ochosi | yeah, even pixel-size wise | 19:33 |
| ochosi | also, i was mostly messing with elfy (obviously) | 19:34 |
| knome | hah.. | 19:34 |
| elfy | :) | 19:34 |
| knome | came just to pop in and out | 19:34 |
| knome | -< | 19:34 |
| elfy | http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1 | 19:36 |
| elfy | draft release notes | 19:36 |
| ochosi | btw, i think the workaround to move the window back on screen is good enough to publish the beta either way | 19:37 |
| elfy | ochosi: yep - I'm happy to publish as long as people have the info | 19:39 |
| elfy | hopefully by the next beta we'll have no major issues and can concentrate on bigging up xfce4.12 lol | 19:40 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: ok, that other issue you mentioned with popup-windows not showing a frame can be worked around by deactivating "hide frame of windows when maximized" aka /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize | 19:44 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: with "that other issue" i meant this of: https://i.imgur.com/hxmrz2d.png | 20:14 |
| knome | slickymaster, i'm back | 20:17 |
| ochosi | elfy: where do we track that ubiquity known issue? | 20:20 |
| elfy | Bug 1425047 | 20:20 |
| ubottu | bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 | 20:20 |
| ochosi | right, but that is sort of a different thing | 20:20 |
| ochosi | at least the description is misleading if it's supposed to be the same thing | 20:21 |
| elfy | that's the only tracking we've got currently | 20:21 |
| elfy | other than bits of writing on the pad and in my head | 20:21 |
| ochosi | in that report it seems about more than just the window being offscreen, no? | 20:21 |
| ochosi | k | 20:21 |
| elfy | ochosi: yes - but when the bug was reported - we weren't aware of the offscreen thing | 20:21 |
| elfy | tbf - when the bug was reported I was driving around in circles :p | 20:22 |
| ochosi | understandable | 20:23 |
| elfy | no - I was actually doing that :D | 20:23 |
| ochosi | ok, finally a pointer... | 20:26 |
| ochosi | the _NET_WORKAREA window-manager hint is wrong | 20:26 |
| elfy | \o/ | 20:26 |
| ochosi | humm, who's in charge of ubiquity again atm? | 20:28 |
| elfy | no idea tbh | 20:28 |
| elfy | ochosi: but the place to ask would be in -release | 20:28 |
| ochosi | did you talk to anybody about the issues we're having yet? | 20:28 |
| elfy | yea - infinity and also cyphermox | 20:28 |
| elfy | who's in here | 20:29 |
| ochosi | k | 20:29 |
| * ochosi waves at cyphermox | 20:29 | |
| elfy | ochosi: does that hint only affect the install part then? or? | 20:29 |
| ochosi | the hint states that the workarea starts at 1024px on the x coordinate instead of 0 | 20:30 |
| ochosi | so all windows are off by 1024px | 20:30 |
| elfy | finished fiddling with the draft on the pad - special note at top for ochosi | 20:30 |
| ochosi | (to the right) | 20:30 |
| elfy | ochosi: well that would explain that then | 20:30 |
| ochosi | the window-manager should correctly set that hint | 20:30 |
| ochosi | now i know that it's not doing that | 20:30 |
| elfy | but does it say something different for inside the livesession install ? | 20:30 |
| ochosi | just not why :) | 20:30 |
| elfy | well - I could answer you - but then you'd know I'm not me :p | 20:31 |
| ochosi | i'm going to the live session now to see whether that looks ok | 20:31 |
| knome | ochosi, fwiw, moved (and redirected) the leaders page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact | 20:32 |
| elfy | ochosi: well it certainly looks ok - and everything works as expected | 20:32 |
| ochosi | yeah | 20:34 |
| ochosi | the values there are correct | 20:34 |
| ochosi | elfy: am i correct that the final "your installation window is complete" isn't showing because it's offscreen? | 20:39 |
| ochosi | i didn't go that far with testing, but i wanna write down my findings in a bugreport | 20:40 |
| elfy | yep - it is there | 20:40 |
| elfy | I've successfully moved that to visible | 20:40 |
| ochosi | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690 | 20:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New] | 20:45 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: i tried to summarize my findings in this bugreport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690 | 20:47 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New] | 20:47 |
| ochosi | (sorry for double-posting) | 20:47 |
| ochosi | also ali1234 ^ in case you wanna help out with that (since you know more about wms than most or all of us here) | 20:50 |
| elfy | ochosi: thanks :) | 20:50 |
| ochosi | np, i think this is as far as i can go tonight | 20:53 |
| elfy | yep - fair to say we're unlikely to get a fix before tomorrow afternoon? | 20:53 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: also, i think by not actively painting the desktop black we'd be able to see the wallpaper as set by xfwm4 (the "xprop -root" output i added to that bugreport i linked to above clearly indicates that that root pixmap is set). maybe i forgot something or why we paint it black in the first place... | 20:54 |
| ochosi | elfy: i guess, but i'd rather wait for bluesabre's feedback on that | 20:54 |
| elfy | ok - well I'll see that in the morning I suspect then | 20:54 |
| ochosi | yup | 20:55 |
| elfy | mark the slickymaster bug dupe of the new one? | 20:55 |
| elfy | which it is - we just only had half a story | 20:56 |
| ochosi | are you sure? | 20:57 |
| ochosi | i thought there was another issue there | 20:57 |
| elfy | possibly - but only because people start adding stuff | 20:58 |
| ochosi | k, lemme re-read it then | 20:58 |
| elfy | the hfs business I read in a good install as well | 20:59 |
| ochosi | oh ok :) | 20:59 |
| ochosi | then let's mark that as a duplicate of mine | 21:00 |
| elfy | might be a bug - but I think it's a red herring in slickymaster's bug - which when he originally pinged me was about the failing install | 21:00 |
| elfy | which WAS about the offscreen the install has finished - restart or not message | 21:00 |
| elfy | because if you just reboot after it would normally have been done (in time) the install is fine | 21:01 |
| elfy | and cyphermox is talking about the offscreen windows in that bug - he's #11 | 21:01 |
| ochosi | yup | 21:02 |
| ochosi | realized that | 21:02 |
| ochosi | i marked it as a dupe now | 21:02 |
| elfy | hah - double marking to make sure then :p | 21:02 |
| ochosi | anyway, i need a break, i'll be back in a bit | 21:03 |
| ochosi | feel free to adjust the link in the pad though, if you can | 21:03 |
| elfy | yea - thanks - cya tomorrow I suspect | 21:03 |
| ochosi | if not, i'll do it when i come back | 21:03 |
| Unit193 | elfy: Right, so upgrade testing. 1. Install utopic from core, make sure xubuntu-desktop isn't installed, upgrade. 2. Install utopic from core, make sure both xubuntu-core and xubuntu-desktop aren't installed, upgrade. 3. There might be a 3rd, maybe one that removes a keyDep, but I don't see why as that's out of the context of this. Case #1 should upgrade without installing a meta. Case #2 | 21:03 |
| ochosi | sure, to the worst ttyl | 21:03 |
| Unit193 | should install xubuntu-desktop. | 21:03 |
| knome | Unit193, write a testcase ;] | 21:03 |
| Unit193 | knome: Just did. :----D | 21:03 |
| knome | Unit193, no, with the preferred testcase format you silly. :) | 21:04 |
| Unit193 | Not even sure what that is. :P | 21:04 |
| knome | Unit193, i will have no problems digging that up for you! | 21:05 |
| knome | Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ManualStyleGuide | 21:05 |
| knome | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat#contribute | 21:05 |
| Unit193 | Maybe I should stop fixing things... | 21:05 |
| knome | it's basic HTML | 21:06 |
| knome | basically put it in a <dl> | 21:06 |
| knome | actions in <dt>, expected results in <dd> | 21:06 |
| knome | easy? | 21:06 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: the _NET_WORKAREA indicates something made a strut that completely covers the screen | 21:15 |
| ochosi | ali1234: yeah, that's what i thought | 21:16 |
| ochosi | but the ubiquity panel seems fine | 21:16 |
| ochosi | i haven't checked ubiquity's own window yet though | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | is this reproducable in virtualbox? | 21:18 |
| ochosi | yeah | 21:18 |
| ochosi | one sec, i'll pastebin the xprop for the panel | 21:19 |
| ochosi | http://paste.ubuntu.com/10415147/ | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | it isn't necessarily the panel, any window can set struts | 21:19 |
| Unit193 | knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/00D8WQZNhmX52XLQWCxx I don't know, something like that. | 21:19 |
| ochosi | ali1234: i know, but there's only the desktop (doesn't set struts) and the ubiquity main installer window (doesnt set struts) | 21:19 |
| ochosi | so the panel is the only thing left | 21:19 |
| elfy | Unit193: more or less - but indented and </dt> at ends | 21:20 |
| elfy | etc | 21:20 |
| knome | Unit193, noo | 21:20 |
| knome | but thanks for the basework | 21:20 |
| knome | i'll fix that... | 21:20 |
| elfy | or even - look at an existing one ... | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: okay it's the panel | 21:20 |
| ochosi | i wonder how this is not a problem with other WMs though | 21:21 |
| ochosi | the struts of the panel do look wrong indeed, they start with 1024 | 21:21 |
| ali1234 | it is a problem with other wms... | 21:21 |
| ochosi | yeah, but from what elfy indicated we're the only ones seeing the issue | 21:21 |
| ochosi | so the others seem to ignore the struts or whatnot | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | what panel is it? | 21:22 |
| ochosi | ubiquity's builtin panel | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | i wouldn't be surprised if xfwm is the only wm that handles struts correctly | 21:22 |
| knome | elfy, Unit193: http://paste.openstack.org/show/EHLS3jEd301wSHoUkizm/ | 21:22 |
| ochosi | i can link you to the code/source, one sec | 21:22 |
| elfy | ochosi: I've not seen it in the 2 I looked at, but I am just running studio | 21:22 |
| ochosi | elfy: studio is also using xfwm, so you should see it there too | 21:22 |
| elfy | yep - just going to confirm so they know | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | there were some changes in xfwm relating struts recently | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | my patch actually | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | however, it should only make it ignore struts | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | not unignore ones it previously ignored | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | and it shouldn't affect what the panel sets either | 21:23 |
| ochosi | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c | 21:23 |
| ali1234 | yeah okay this is just plain wrong | 21:24 |
| ochosi | so somewhere in set_strut there is a buuuug :) | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c#L249 | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | set_strut just does what the code tells it | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | the code tells it to make a strut convering the whole screen, so it does | 21:25 |
| ochosi | haha | 21:25 |
| Unit193 | So dd is <p> not <h1>. | 21:25 |
| ochosi | widt | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), width, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width); | 21:25 |
| ochosi | yeah | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | width = gdk_screen_width(); | 21:25 |
| ochosi | the first width should be 0 | 21:25 |
| ochosi | lol, that is an obvious one that even *i* see and understand | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | they should probably all be zero | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | the panel is always the full width and always at the top? | 21:26 |
| knome | Unit193, semantically, <dl> = definition list, <dt> = definition title, <dd> = definition definition | 21:27 |
| ochosi | ali1234: yes | 21:27 |
| ali1234 | flexiondotorg: have you noticed any funny stuff with struts in ubiquity? | 21:27 |
| Unit193 | I think I'd rather mess with C. | 21:27 |
| ochosi | ali1234: it's totally hardcoded and stuff, so no options | 21:27 |
| flexiondotorg | ali1234, No. Can you give me an an idea of what I should look for? | 21:28 |
| knome | elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile | 21:28 |
| ochosi | i'm not even sure that panel is shown in mate's installer, we had to opt in to get it | 21:28 |
| knome | elfy, huhu... :) | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | flexiondotorg: ubiquity panel defines a strut covering the entire screen, and properly coded WMs then push all new windows *off* the screen because there is no workarea | 21:28 |
| elfy | knome: don't remember that one :) | 21:28 |
| flexiondotorg | ochosi, If you mean the ubiquity-dm panel then I use that. | 21:28 |
| knome | elfy, well it's been hiding... | 21:29 |
| elfy | can you see how old they are :p | 21:29 |
| knome | yes, 2012 | 21:29 |
| knome | says at the page bottom | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | flexiondotorg: yeah i thought you did, cos you mentioned making indicators work in it, hence me asking | 21:29 |
| ochosi | flexiondotorg: ah ok | 21:29 |
| knome | elfy, pop in to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu to see the new header | 21:29 |
| knome | ^ others too | 21:29 |
| flexiondotorg | ali1234, Never had an issue with it. Checked out OK on i386 and amd64 earlier. | 21:29 |
| ochosi | weird though, i would presume that metacity handles struts correctly | 21:29 |
| flexiondotorg | ali1234, Just doing PowerPC tests now. | 21:29 |
| flexiondotorg | ochosi, Well possibly but I use Marco. | 21:30 |
| ochosi | ali1234: i presume this would be enough? set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), 0, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width); | 21:30 |
| knome | ochosi, agree with this here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | i'm zsync'ing xubuntu daily | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: you don't even need that last width | 21:30 |
| knome | ochosi, mostly on the outline where different stuff should be at | 21:30 |
| ochosi | ali1234: ah yeah, overlooked that. i guess we should propose a branch asap so that it gets merged tomorrow and then we get a working b1 | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: yeah, just reading the specs. as usual, they are confusing | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | actually | 21:31 |
| ochosi | :) | 21:31 |
| ochosi | you mean the advanced wm hints spec? | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/1.3/ar01s05.html#NETWMSTRUT | 21:31 |
| ochosi | yeah, that one is a bit hard to digest... | 21:32 |
| ochosi | read it before as well | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | right i get it | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | first 4 numbers are the width of the border on that edge of the screen | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | so those should be 0, 0, allocation.height, 0 | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | the next 4 are the start and stop of the struts in the other direction | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | so those should be d/c, d/c, d/c, d/c, 0, width, d/c, d/c | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | d/c = don't care | 21:33 |
| ochosi | wat, for realz? | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | translating that for the set_strut call you get... | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | (0, 0, 0, allocation.height, 0, width) | 21:34 |
| ochosi | right, care to propose the branch since i'm still trying to bend my head around that description on fd.org? | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | i would like to talk to whoever wrote this first | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | can you bzr blame it for me? | 21:36 |
| ochosi | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/annotate/head:/src/panel/panel.c ? | 21:37 |
| ochosi | evan dandrea i guess | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | "add an installer session panel" looks like the one | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | that was 5 years ago though | 21:38 |
| ochosi | yeah | 21:38 |
| ochosi | ev | 21:39 |
| ochosi | should be the nick ^ | 21:39 |
| ochosi | found in #u-devel | 21:39 |
| ochosi | why would you wanna talk about this issue with the author first? | 21:39 |
| ochosi | i guess he doesn't even remember writing it since it's been 5yrs | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | there might be a good reason why it does what it does | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | i doubt it but you never know | 21:40 |
| ochosi | i guess then propose the branch and ask him for review | 21:40 |
| ochosi | you can specifically request him | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | good idea | 21:40 |
| ochosi | then he gets notified and if there's a branch with the change and a comment from you, we can follow up by pinging the hell out of him tomorrow :D | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | i wonder why this was never a problem before | 21:41 |
| ochosi | yeah, no clue | 21:42 |
| ochosi | it seems like an obvious problem | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | hmm wait a minute | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | this actually should be okay | 21:44 |
| knome | slickymaster, too late, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation/TranslationGuidelines | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | if left.end is allocation.height then it only covers the whole width | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | at the top of the screen | 21:44 |
| ochosi | so what, xfwm4 misinterprets it? | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | could be | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | like how it misinterprets struts on multimonitor, thinking they cover the other monitors | 21:46 |
| cyphermox | I don't think ev will be of much help, he hasn't touched ubiquity in forever | 21:46 |
| ali1234 | http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=b97b14868e27e48d4d475ac0497726f16de9a4e1 | 21:46 |
| ali1234 | what is this | 21:46 |
| ali1234 | it's either that or this causing it http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=3f12ac8f92096ce562221622aa5ad2f45ae37006 | 21:48 |
| ochosi | "awesome" | 21:49 |
| ochosi | cyphermox: thanks for reading in! | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | the ubiquity code is actually wrong tho | 21:49 |
| elfy | evening cyphermox :) | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | there's no need to set two struts on the same area like that, the strut can be handled perfectly by the not-partial stuff | 21:50 |
| knome | ochosi, are you reading what i'm pinging you with at all? ;) | 21:50 |
| knome | elfy, was there something for the QA team we wanted xubuntu-specific instructions for? there's a wikipage for that now... | 21:50 |
| elfy | I intend to do us xubuntu specific instructions | 21:51 |
| knome | put them under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation ... | 21:51 |
| cyphermox | ali1234: i suspect there must have been a good reason to have two; it will need some testing with the other wms. | 21:53 |
| ochosi | i presume one is set as a fallback | 21:57 |
| ochosi | for those that don't handle the _PARTIAL ones | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | so the problem here is that xfwm doesn't understand partial struts at all | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: the thing is, it's completely unneccessary to use a partial strut here | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | the strut is the whole width and whatever height it is | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | that bit works fine | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | it's the partial one that is causing the problem | 21:58 |
| ochosi | knome: so the dev docs are in an ok place imo, looks good | 22:03 |
| knome | ochosi, and what about the introduction, you agree what it says? | 22:03 |
| ochosi | yeah, looks ok | 22:04 |
| knome | ok, also see the new contact page | 22:04 |
| knome | (and you probably noticed the new banner too...) | 22:05 |
| ochosi | yeah, much cleaner | 22:05 |
| ochosi | thus better | 22:05 |
| knome | yep | 22:05 |
| knome | agree | 22:05 |
| knome | i was also thinking about the timezone stuff | 22:05 |
| knome | do people use it? | 22:05 |
| knome | probably not a question to the team... | 22:05 |
| ochosi | yeah, good question | 22:10 |
| slickymaster | knome, checking it | 22:11 |
| ochosi | ali1234: so what's the conclusion here? if ubiquity is setting both struts correctly i guess xfwm4 should be fixed somehow | 22:12 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 22:13 |
| ali1234 | it mean refactoring workspaces.c | 22:13 |
| slickymaster | knome, seems good | 22:13 |
| ali1234 | and maybe some other stuff | 22:13 |
| slickymaster | but there's one odd thing that has to be corrected | 22:13 |
| slickymaster | will you do it, or can I? | 22:13 |
| knome | slickymaster, as the documentation team lead, you could take a stance if something from http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/ or http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ should be moved there, they seem to be pretty comprehensive | 22:14 |
| knome | slickymaster, it's a wiki, i don't have the edit lock... :) | 22:14 |
| ali1234 | the easiest fix would be to just make ubiquity not set that partial strut | 22:15 |
| slickymaster | it's just that between point 3 and 4 of the 'Translation validity' section there's no <br> like between point 1 and 2 and point two and three | 22:15 |
| ali1234 | but there might be a reason why it does that | 22:15 |
| slickymaster | on it | 22:15 |
| knome | slickymaster, ;) | 22:16 |
| * slickymaster is waking up the hamsters | 22:16 | |
| knome | slickymaster, you start to sound like an artist... | 22:16 |
| slickymaster | nopes, but I did work as a professional photographer on architecture for several years | 22:17 |
| elfy | knome: as in Documentation - Testing ? | 22:17 |
| knome | elfy, no, as in "Quality Assurance - Testing" | 22:17 |
| knome | slickymaster, ooh :P | 22:18 |
| elfy | knome: yea just saw that :) | 22:18 |
| knome | elfy, and you too, maybe we should rethink our scopes now that we actually have that developer documentation | 22:18 |
| elfy | I refuse to use the word Scope | 22:18 |
| knome | ahah | 22:18 |
| knome | but you just did :( | 22:19 |
| elfy | well I'll not fall into that trap again :p | 22:19 |
| knome | ;) | 22:20 |
| slickymaster | knome, what about linking "... file a bug against the package itself."? | 22:20 |
| knome | i'll get you... | 22:20 |
| knome | slickymaster, to what? | 22:20 |
| knome | slickymaster, i mean, isn't that supposed to be a general guideline for all xubuntu translations | 22:20 |
| knome | slickymaster, mostly documentation though, as the intro says | 22:21 |
| knome | i mean i wouldn't want not to encourage these good conventions and validity concerns amongst all packages | 22:21 |
| knome | if we said they only cover documentation... | 22:21 |
| slickymaster | tho link it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs | 22:21 |
| slickymaster | if there's something wrong with a tag in the docs, the bug should be raised against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs | 22:22 |
| knome | slickymaster, yes, but you're missing my point | 22:22 |
| knome | read the intro | 22:22 |
| knome | These guidelines apply mostly for the Xubuntu documentation. They can generally be applied to any translation with minor modification. If unsure, ask the Documentation team members for assistance. | 22:22 |
| knome | well, i guess minor modification could mean a different package | 22:22 |
| slickymaster | ok, I see what you mean | 22:22 |
| * knome shrugs | 22:22 | |
| ochosi | ali1234: "refactoring" in combination with any code parts doesn't sound like it's going to happen pre4.12 | 22:23 |
| knome | slickymaster, give me an example of "Placeholders and variable names, such as %(variablename)s, $name or ${name}, should always be left untranslated." | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | ochosi: it would be helpful to know when the regression occured | 22:23 |
| knome | slickymaster, i know you said $PACKAGENAME, but was there something else you had in mind? | 22:23 |
| slickymaster | yeah, but to be honest I don't remember now what it was :P | 22:24 |
| knome | well tell me when you do | 22:24 |
| ochosi | ali1234: either when we added the panel or when 4.11.3 hit the archives | 22:24 |
| slickymaster | yes | 22:24 |
| ochosi | elfy: got an idea here? ^ | 22:24 |
| knome | slickymaster, i think generally those can be translated, considering they are not technical variable placeholders | 22:24 |
| knome | slickymaster, like %s somewhere (not in the documentation though) | 22:25 |
| ochosi | ali1234: i guess to the worst we'll deactivate the panel again for xfwm4, it used to be pre-15.04 | 22:25 |
| ochosi | ali1234: until *now* we didn't see a reason not to use it | 22:25 |
| knome | slickymaster, and then again those variables might have a completely different meaning and it might be so that they can be changed | 22:25 |
| knome | slickymaster, eg. localized date formats | 22:25 |
| knome | slickymaster, then the translation string comment usually tells what to do though | 22:25 |
| slickymaster | perhaps | 22:26 |
| knome | slickymaster, if it doesn't then it's an issue with the source | 22:26 |
| elfy | ochosi: no - I tend to just daily make sure the image boots and do a quick smoketest from livesession | 22:26 |
| slickymaster | that's it | 22:27 |
| ochosi | elfy: so you'd have noticed this earlier? how far do your smoketests go? | 22:27 |
| slickymaster | ideally they shouldn't be there to begin with | 22:27 |
| knome | slickymaster, no, they should be there | 22:27 |
| elfy | ochosi: no I'd not have noticed it earlier as the issue doesn't show up installing from the livesession | 22:27 |
| knome | slickymaster, the portuguese way to format the date is probably different than the finnish way | 22:27 |
| slickymaster | but that's system bound | 22:28 |
| knome | slickymaster, so it's a great thing that the software author enables the translators to use that | 22:28 |
| knome | slickymaster, using the system format is not always possible or desirable | 22:28 |
| slickymaster | I'm aware knome | 22:28 |
| knome | slickymaster, dates are just one of the examples | 22:28 |
| knome | slickymaster, other examples are formatting various number things, like "Found %d articles" | 22:29 |
| slickymaster | my fear is that opening a window like that, enabling their translation might end up in a sort of mess like the one we're dealing now | 22:29 |
| knome | slickymaster, in which the variable should be moved based on the language, eg. in finnish that would be "%d artikkelia löydettiin" | 22:29 |
| ochosi | elfy: ok that means it could've been happening since we added the panel :/ | 22:30 |
| slickymaster | in that example you're not changinf the variable itself, just its placement | 22:30 |
| slickymaster | knome: ^ | 22:30 |
| slickymaster | changing even | 22:30 |
| knome | slickymaster, sure, but i can't remember seeing a variable referenced by %(variable) | 22:30 |
| slickymaster | I'll have to dig it deeper | 22:31 |
| knome | slickymaster, they probably exist, but maybe it would be better to say that separately with a blanket statement; "Different programming languages and software might have different variable syntaxes; make sure you are familiar with the appropriate software variable syntax when translating. More information on this can often be found in the translation string comment." | 22:32 |
| elfy | ochosi: possibly | 22:32 |
| slickymaster | anyway, those are guidelines, not an airtight ruleset knome | 22:32 |
| elfy | ochosi: I have run from the install option - but couldn't say when it was | 22:32 |
| slickymaster | that would work for me | 22:32 |
| slickymaster | knome: | 22:32 |
| knome | slickymaster, yep. | 22:32 |
| knome | slickymaster, we definitely don't use that kind of stuff in the documentation | 22:33 |
| ochosi | elfy: okeydokey, well hopefully one of the ubiquity devs will be able to give some input | 22:33 |
| ochosi | or we can try our luck with ofourdan tomorrow | 22:33 |
| ochosi | i doubt the latter would result in a fix pre-b1 | 22:33 |
| ochosi | but who knows | 22:34 |
| slickymaster | knome, do you want to rephrased point three then | 22:34 |
| elfy | ochosi: ack | 22:34 |
| knome | slickymaster, i'd pop it off the list and put it somewhere else | 22:34 |
| knome | slickymaster, but i don't have a strong opinion where | 22:34 |
| elfy | wandering off now - night all | 22:34 |
| knome | slickymaster, or move it as the last item | 22:35 |
| ochosi | same here | 22:35 |
| ochosi | night | 22:35 |
| knome | slickymaster, with a note that it doesn't concern the documentation | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | knome, it could be moved from validity to conventions | 22:35 |
| knome | slickymaster, well actually, put it after the list as a paragraph ? | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | with that note | 22:35 |
| knome | no, it's not a convention; if you misdo it, it can break the validity | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | you're right | 22:36 |
| knome | well it will break the translation unless you are lucky :) | 22:36 |
| slickymaster | nighty elfy | 22:36 |
| knome | night elfy, ochosi | 22:36 |
| slickymaster | yeah, but let's not push luck :P | 22:36 |
| slickymaster | ochosi, nghty | 22:36 |
| slickymaster | let's do it as you suggest | 22:37 |
| slickymaster | knome: | 22:37 |
| knome | will you or shall i? | 22:37 |
| slickymaster | you can do it | 22:37 |
| knome | ok, just a sec | 22:37 |
| knome | done | 22:38 |
| * slickymaster checks | 22:38 | |
| slickymaster | knome, what about Note being in bolf font? | 22:39 |
| slickymaster | just 'Note' | 22:39 |
| knome | it's not that important | 22:39 |
| knome | it's just a sidenote | 22:39 |
| slickymaster | not importance realted | 22:39 |
| slickymaster | * related | 22:39 |
| knome | well it is | 22:39 |
| slickymaster | aesthetics | 22:39 |
| knome | we don't want to drag focus to it since it's not even concerning our docs | 22:40 |
| slickymaster | lol | 22:40 |
| knome | haha | 22:40 |
| slickymaster | :) | 22:40 |
| knome | well, opinions... | 22:40 |
| slickymaster | but all and all, I think it was a good choice | 22:40 |
| knome | even aesthetially, i think it's better like it is | 22:40 |
| knome | +c | 22:40 |
| slickymaster | opting for the wiki solution | 22:40 |
| * knome "urses" the C key | 22:40 | |
| slickymaster | at least for now | 22:40 |
| * knome hits it | 22:40 | |
| slickymaster | knome is going msd | 22:41 |
| slickymaster | sigh | 22:41 |
| slickymaster | mad even | 22:41 |
| knome | haha | 22:41 |
| knome | i'm always mad at my c | 22:41 |
| slickymaster | :) | 22:41 |
| slickymaster | and it's one more asset to provide in the last translation call | 22:42 |
| knome | yes, and a sensible one... | 22:42 |
| slickymaster | which reminds me that I haven't even started to look at the packages used by and essential for Xubuntu pt translations | 22:43 |
| knome | hehe :) | 22:44 |
| knome | good for you | 22:44 |
| slickymaster | no moral | 22:44 |
| knome | ;) | 22:44 |
| knome | write more documentation then... | 22:44 |
| slickymaster | I'll start it this weekend | 22:44 |
| slickymaster | there won't be so many strins to work on anyway | 22:45 |
| knome | i should probably do some xfce translations | 22:45 |
| bluesabre | hey all | 23:25 |
| knome | hullo bluesabre | 23:27 |
| bluesabre | hey knome | 23:28 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: saw the ping storm while I was away today... so where are we at? | 23:28 |
| slickymaster | knome, did you check https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+imports lately? | 23:57 |
| slickymaster | two of your uploads failed | 23:58 |
| flexiondotorg | How is your testing going/ | 23:58 |
| slickymaster | hey bluesabre | 23:58 |
| knome | for saucy and trusty... | 23:58 |
| * knome shrugs | 23:58 | |
| slickymaster | yes | 23:58 |
| knome | duplicate key value violates unique constraint "pomsgid_msgid_key" | 23:58 |
| knome | DETAIL: Key (sha1(msgid))=(819d25f001723101cd015feeacde55ee233c7b8b) already exists. | 23:58 |
| bluesabre | hey slickymaster | 23:58 |
| knome | i have no idea what that means, exiting debugging. | 23:59 |
| knome | slickymaster, approved your es.po (if that needed doing so, i'm not completely sure what LP requires me to do, but what i've done has worked so far...) | 23:59 |
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